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Other => Discussions => Topic started by: naufrago on September 19, 2012, 10:21:27 PM

Title: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 19, 2012, 10:21:27 PM
Just thought I'd link this article here, since I'm not sure how many of you have read about this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/warp-drive-star-trek-feasible_n_1890679.html

Basically, scientists have discovered that creating an FTL engine that warps space-time to cheat its way past the speed of light requires orders of magnitude less energy than originally thought. NASA scientists are actually preparing some experiments to test out the new theories to determine its feasibility. Pretty exciting stuff.

To put things in perspective, it took about half a century to go from the theory of relativity to creating practical applications for it (nuclear bombs, nuclear energy). It's entirely possible that we could see the inception of FTL technology (or at least a feasible interstellar drive) in our lifetimes. And we have computers now, which could help speed things along nicely.

Figured we're probably all space nerds to some extent, so this may be relevant to your interests.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Rowanas on September 20, 2012, 02:07:55 AM
Perhaps, perhaps, but I think I'll stay on earth, thanks. It's pretty cool to be living in the future.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 20, 2012, 02:11:55 AM
Earth is going to die sooner or later. If we don't find a way to relocate and colonize other planets, I'd say we're pretty much doomed.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Rowanas on September 20, 2012, 02:16:01 AM
Good. There couldn't be a more fitting end to us.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 20, 2012, 03:23:36 AM
I wouldn't say that all of humanity needs to end - there are exceptions to the rule. I mean, sure thing, there are 1 smart guy for each 10 idiots, but that's not to say that the smart guy needs to die, is there?
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: arcibalde on September 20, 2012, 04:51:07 AM
I wouldn't say that all of humanity needs to end - there are exceptions to the rule. I mean, sure thing, there are 1 smart guy for each 10 idiots, but that's not to say that the smart guy needs to die, is there?
No, you are wrong. There is 1 decent guy/girl for each 1.000 or more idiots...  And i horrified with thought: Humans CAN space travel to other galaxy's. What horror would we bring to other aliens. What terror we would throw at them. Our entire history is a blood bath and we do that to each other. I can't even think what would we do to not earthlings... I really, really hope that human race never ever have something like FTL. We are bogeymen.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: harrumph on September 20, 2012, 04:59:59 AM
Oh, we're not all that bad. Proportionally speaking, we're actually steadily becoming less and less violent (obviously in absolute terms the 20th century was the bloodiest ever, and nothing to pat ourselves on the collective back about). Besides, what makes you think we're so much more violent than some hypothetical alien race? We're the only technologically advanced species we know! Maybe the galaxy is just teeming with Tyranids and Antarans and the like.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 20, 2012, 05:04:02 AM
If the galaxy does have tyranids, then we're all either dead or dying soon.


And antarans? No clue.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: TJJ on September 20, 2012, 05:17:35 AM
They're still talking about mind-boggling quantities of energy.

Google reliably tells me that a 1MT explosion requires 46.55g of matter be converted to energy
The Tsar bomb was a 50MT detonation, so will have consumed around 2.33 kg of mass.

If this new theory requires ~800kg of mass (Voyager 1's launch mass) be converted to energy, that means the space craft would need to be able to harness the equivalent power generated by ~344 Tsar bombs.
While it's not unimaginable for us to be able to generate such huge amounts of energy, the material sciences necessary to harness such huge energy levels are completely unimaginable.

I don't think FTL travel to other stars is something we need to be considering for at least the next 1000 years.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: hadesian on September 20, 2012, 05:21:50 AM
I don't think FTL travel to other stars is something we need to be considering for at least the next 1000 years.
Then it's a good thing we'll have immortality in the next 100 years
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 20, 2012, 05:25:39 AM
I don't think FTL travel to other stars is something we need to be considering for at least the next 1000 years.
Then it's a good thing we'll have immortality in the next 100 years

Proof? Evidence? Pointers?
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: sdmike1 on September 20, 2012, 07:18:08 AM
I wouldn't say that all of humanity needs to end - there are exceptions to the rule. I mean, sure thing, there are 1 smart guy for each 10 idiots, but that's not to say that the smart guy needs to die, is there?
No, you are wrong. There is 1 decent guy/girl for each 1.000 or more idiots...  And i horrified with thought: Humans CAN space travel to other galaxy's. What horror would we bring to other aliens. What terror we would throw at them. Our entire history is a blood bath and we do that to each other. I can't even think what would we do to not earthlings... I really, really hope that human race never ever have something like FTL. We are bogeymen.
Who's to say that the aliens are utopian? ;)
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 20, 2012, 09:31:11 AM
I wouldn't say that all of humanity needs to end - there are exceptions to the rule. I mean, sure thing, there are 1 smart guy for each 10 idiots, but that's not to say that the smart guy needs to die, is there?
No, you are wrong. There is 1 decent guy/girl for each 1.000 or more idiots...  And i horrified with thought: Humans CAN space travel to other galaxy's. What horror would we bring to other aliens. What terror we would throw at them. Our entire history is a blood bath and we do that to each other. I can't even think what would we do to not earthlings... I really, really hope that human race never ever have something like FTL. We are bogeymen.

Bull ***.
The history of life itself is about killing and dying. And eating and *** ing.
If a bit of idiocy would be a good reason to to die or become extinct, humanity would be the last species on earth to go, not the first. Everything else is much more idiotic. More so, nothing else does even know it's idiotic, or that there might be something wrong with all the killing. It's perception of good and bad is what set's humanity apart, that and the therein contained potential to become less like animals and more like it's own civilized ideal.




Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: sirboomalot on September 20, 2012, 01:10:07 PM
I don't think FTL travel to other stars is something we need to be considering for at least the next 1000 years.
Then it's a good thing we'll have immortality in the next 100 years

Proof? Evidence? Pointers?


Immortality of the mind seems to be one step after AI, all it would really take is a good understanding of the brain and the ability to program how it works with a person's memories. (along with a ton of science, of course)
I'm not sure that we'll be having it quite that soon (though I can hope) but I'm certain that we are going to have it sooner than people suspect.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: GUNINANRUNIN on September 20, 2012, 01:31:07 PM
They're still talking about mind-boggling quantities of energy.

Google reliably tells me that a 1MT explosion requires 46.55g of matter be converted to energy
The Tsar bomb was a 50MT detonation, so will have consumed around 2.33 kg of mass.

If this new theory requires ~800kg of mass (Voyager 1's launch mass) be converted to energy, that means the space craft would need to be able to harness the equivalent power generated by ~344 Tsar bombs.
While it's not unimaginable for us to be able to generate such huge amounts of energy, the material sciences necessary to harness such huge energy levels are completely unimaginable.

I don't think FTL travel to other stars is something we need to be considering for at least the next 1000 years.
Agreed. To think we're close to FTL travel is wishful at best. Its even stated in the article that the ring surrounding the football-shaped craft would likely be made of "exotic matter"....

Also, I doubt humankind will last for another 40 years at this rate. We need this now. The opportunity to colonize a new world is something the entire world could get behind.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 20, 2012, 01:32:06 PM
 I'd actually prefer bodily immortality than being inside a computer, no matter how advanced. Though that may just be me.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 20, 2012, 01:40:32 PM
I'd actually prefer bodily immortality than being inside a computer, no matter how advanced. Though that may just be me.

When technology is advanced enough to offer mind computer transfer for common people fully featured android bodies will be old news. You can download yourself and have many bodies!
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 20, 2012, 01:47:18 PM
So......


I can be me, but i can't die because everyone i get bored of a body, i can just change? Sign me up! !
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: TJJ on September 20, 2012, 06:27:13 PM
I'd actually prefer bodily immortality than being inside a computer, no matter how advanced. Though that may just be me.

When technology is advanced enough to offer mind computer transfer for common people fully featured android bodies will be old news. You can download yourself and have many bodies!

You're assuming consciousness is something tangible that can be transferred, rather than extra-dimensional interactions.

If you could transfer consciousness, then you could copy it.
The concept of self falls down when multiple instances of you can exist.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 20, 2012, 06:52:44 PM
If this new theory requires ~800kg of mass (Voyager 1's launch mass) be converted to energy, that means the space craft would need to be able to harness the equivalent power generated by ~344 Tsar bombs.
While it's not unimaginable for us to be able to generate such huge amounts of energy, the material sciences necessary to harness such huge energy levels are completely unimaginable.

I'm aware of that. I said 'more feasible than first thought,' as did the article. I took great pains to imply that nobody expects this sort of advancement to happen overnight. Also, 'exotic matter' just means we don't know what it'll have to be made of yet.

With just a small change to the shape of the theoretical warp drive, they reduced the energy required by many orders of magnitude, less than a decade after the theory was first proposed. Further refinement to the geometry and other things mentioned in the article could potentially lead to even lower power requirements. Combine that with advances to energy production and material sciences, and it's entirely possible that this sort of warp drive could become a reality within half a century (keyword: possible).

It's important not to look just at the current requirements of the design, but to look beyond that. The design isn't feasible in its current state, and nobody's arguing that it is. What's important is how massive of an improvement it is over the previous theoretical design with such a small change. There's at least one example of a theory progressing relatively rapidly to practical application (the nuke), so it would be crazy to completely dismiss the possibility.

This is all assuming this sort of thing gets properly funded. I think it will, since a device that can warp space-time has practical military applications (like the nuke) in addition to its use as an engine.

Warping space-time could be a very potent defensive tool, especially for anything with wheels/treads. Warp the area in front of an incoming bullet or artillery shell and you can change its trajectory slightly, basically using refraction. All you need to do is activate it for a few milliseconds at a time to change the trajectory by a couple degrees. It's much easier (requires less energy) and safer to deflect incoming fire slightly than to outright stop it with armor. If there's an explosion next to you, warp space for a few milliseconds so that the blast wave has to travel a little longer and dissipate more before it hits your armor (a shockwave's energy dissipates proportional to 1/r^2, so a very effective use).

No way of knowing how much energy that sort of thing will ultimately require, but you can bet DARPA would be interested in it.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 21, 2012, 03:00:23 AM

You're assuming consciousness is something tangible that can be transferred, rather than extra-dimensional interactions.

If you could transfer consciousness, then you could copy it.
The concept of self falls down when multiple instances of you can exist.

There's not much to assume. All higher brain functions have been (more or less precisely) linked to specific regions of the brain. All aspects of what we call consciousness can be hampered or disabled by lesion or illness of specific brain regions. Many of those aspects can be observed in animals and found mirrored in their brains. Consciousness is accounted for in the physical world.

And I don't think the concept of self would fall because of any kind of cloning. Think monozygotic twins, they are identical at conception, but due to slight variance in perspective and experience they become individuals. Sometimes extremely similar, but individuals . If you would clone or make multiple copies of a human consciousness they would diverge in their first second of existence, cancelling their non-individuality.


Warping space-time could be a very potent defensive tool, especially for anything with wheels/treads. Warp the area in front of an incoming bullet or artillery shell and you can change its trajectory slightly, basically using refraction. All you need to do is activate it for a few milliseconds at a time to change the trajectory by a couple degrees. It's much easier (requires less energy) and safer to deflect incoming fire slightly than to outright stop it with armor. If there's an explosion next to you, warp space for a few milliseconds so that the blast wave has to travel a little longer and dissipate more before it hits your armor (a shockwave's energy dissipates proportional to 1/r^2, so a very effective use).
No way of knowing how much energy that sort of thing will ultimately require, but you can bet DARPA would be interested in it.

Warping time-space to defect bullets? That is like suggesting to use an atomic blast to deflect an arrow, way out of (energy-)proportion.

But, as you, I think its really exiting that this technology became more feasible so fast, and might become even more feasible in the future. Not only for the aspect of visiting other worlds. Most scientific analyses I know of deem a contact with any extraterrestrial civilization unlikely, simply due to the insurmountable distances between everything. Well, the mountain just became a hill.

Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 21, 2012, 01:41:32 PM
I wouldn't say that all of humanity needs to end - there are exceptions to the rule. I mean, sure thing, there are 1 smart guy for each 10 idiots, but that's not to say that the smart guy needs to die, is there?
No, you are wrong. There is 1 decent guy/girl for each 1.000 or more idiots...  And i horrified with thought: Humans CAN space travel to other galaxy's. What horror would we bring to other aliens. What terror we would throw at them. Our entire history is a blood bath and we do that to each other. I can't even think what would we do to not earthlings... I really, really hope that human race never ever have something like FTL. We are bogeymen.

Actually most of history is extremely boring and average stuff.... it's just that once in a while a bloodbath happens, it's so much more interesting that it robs all the attention.

It's just not feasible to have more killing than living and grow at the same time (unless you have some really weird ritualistic society that kills its members once they are done reproducing).  The sheer size growth of human civilization speaks a lot of good about its stability.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 21, 2012, 01:50:03 PM
And yet it's growth is what might become humanities demise, for the overboiling life which our future promises might prove deadlier then all the murder of times past...

Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 21, 2012, 02:12:29 PM
And yet it's growth is what might become humanities demise, for the overboiling life which our future promises might prove deadlier then all the murder of times past...

Raise standard of living and rights for women and overpopulation is solved rather easily.

That is lot harder than said though lol
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 21, 2012, 02:19:35 PM
I'd recommend genocide by asteroids for the overgrowth problem. ;D
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Rowanas on September 21, 2012, 02:53:15 PM
As fantastic as a we are as a species, I reckon we should continue full-steam-ahead on this whole "advance to our own destruction" thing we've got going. We're not a very happy species at the moment, and holding out isn't going to get us anywhere. Either our technology will kill us, or it'll make us happier, and either one is one up from where we are now.

Brave New World or bust!
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 21, 2012, 06:59:33 PM
As fantastic as a we are as a species, I reckon we should continue full-steam-ahead on this whole "advance to our own destruction" thing we've got going. We're not a very happy species at the moment, and holding out isn't going to get us anywhere. Either our technology will kill us, or it'll make us happier, and either one is one up from where we are now.

Brave New World or bust!

Somebody needs to get laid ;D

Is this sort of hate on humanity the new cool sci-fi geek thing to do or are starfarer board members just that depressed?  So much judgement being handed out on these topics...
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Rowanas on September 22, 2012, 02:08:11 AM
As fantastic as a we are as a species, I reckon we should continue full-steam-ahead on this whole "advance to our own destruction" thing we've got going. We're not a very happy species at the moment, and holding out isn't going to get us anywhere. Either our technology will kill us, or it'll make us happier, and either one is one up from where we are now.

Brave New World or bust!

Somebody needs to get laid ;D

Is this sort of hate on humanity the new cool sci-fi geek thing to do or are starfarer board members just that depressed?  So much judgement being handed out on these topics...

I think the "hate on humanity" movement is part of a backlash against the toxicity of the systems under which we live. Nihilism and fatalism aren't new, but they're pretty durable.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 22, 2012, 03:19:52 AM
You're assuming consciousness is something tangible that can be transferred, rather than extra-dimensional interactions.

If you could transfer consciousness, then you could copy it.
The concept of self falls down when multiple instances of you can exist.

Not if you apply time and place as part of defining characteristic of an individual unit (which is something that should be done).  Not that I agree with immortality-through-digital-conversion remotely plausible because I find the whole "download your mind into a computer" more of a "magic" more than sci-fi anyway... Mind isn't digital (nor are digital copies all identical and exists in some sort of fairy land... they occupy real space and time on HDD or whatever we store them in) and any near identical copies of it would be just that, copies.

I think the "hate on humanity" movement is part of a backlash against the toxicity of the systems under which we live. Nihilism and fatalism aren't new, but they're pretty durable.

I just don't get this whole negativity... If world is so much gloom and doom that there is no plausible chance of improvement hence it warrants complete annihilation, then why not just off oneself?  If not, why be a *** about it rather than dealing with it and trying to improve things?  It's like what I tell myself when dealing with frustrating interpersonal relationships... if I'm not going to sue/beat/kill the bastard, make nice and get along.

And the second sentence adds even more to this trend that's already full of irony ;D
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: LordHerpDerpington on September 22, 2012, 07:37:11 AM
There's plenty of doom and gloom to be found, if you look for them - Most scientific progress is funded by military needs, people don't like each other for some reason, American government blah blah.

However, there is plenty of awesome things to be found if you look for those instead.


Back on topic, filling the interior of a spaceship with super-efficient fusion engines could work. Just take some water from here initially, then find a nebula or somesuch, and BAM! Hydrogen!
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: arcibalde on September 23, 2012, 01:16:00 AM
I'm just saying that we are extremely dangerous species (for us and everyone else) and, on top of that, we didn't "evolve", a tiny bit from some primal point of view. We still kill each other -.- after all that progress and spirituality and...

Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: K-64 on September 23, 2012, 11:36:06 AM
...and what's to say that other intelligent species wouldn't be the same? The reason that humans are the dominant species of Earth is because we are dangerous. You don't get to being the top of the heap by being little Ms. Primrose now, do you?
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Faiter119 on September 23, 2012, 12:33:10 PM
Im pretty sure just about every animal fight and kill each other.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: arcibalde on September 23, 2012, 01:09:00 PM
...and what's to say that other intelligent species wouldn't be the same?
Who knows...

Quote
The reason that humans are the dominant species of Earth is because we are dangerous. You don't get to being the top of the heap by being little Ms. Primrose now, do you?
We pass long time ago point for territorial/bare survival against animals. It's one thing killing animals/plants for food/territory/protection and another thing killing another human for whatsoever reason. All these years of "evolution" and we still kill each others. We, humanity, didn't get to the point when killing another human being is absolute NO-NO option for all of us. So i will give one extremely hideous example. IF YOU ARE UNDER AGE DO NOT READ SPOILER.
Spoiler
Imagine if someone eat baby. 99,9999999999% of world population would condemn such act.
Now, imagine that reaction for killing other human being.
[close]
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Aratoop on September 23, 2012, 01:12:43 PM
Ok... you're using the word 'evolve' to mean socially evolving, not biologically, as you are saying. Evolution is simply because of the fact that genes can't be copied perfectly, and sometimes these mistakes bring advantages. That's all. It does not make us any more moral. Yes we kill eachother, but what of it?
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: arcibalde on September 23, 2012, 01:20:23 PM
Ok... you're using the word 'evolve' to mean socially evolving, not biologically, as you are saying. Evolution is simply because of the fact that genes can't be copied perfectly, and sometimes these mistakes bring advantages.
Yes, i mean evolution of conscience not biological evolution. The way we think...

Quote
Yes we kill eachother, but what of it?
Nothing, just saying that we are still very low level about that. It's like we didn't progress with it all this time...
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 23, 2012, 01:42:31 PM
Ok... you're using the word 'evolve' to mean socially evolving, not biologically, as you are saying. Evolution is simply because of the fact that genes can't be copied perfectly, and sometimes these mistakes bring advantages.
Yes, i mean evolution of conscience not biological evolution. The way we think...

Nothing, just saying that we are still very low level about that. It's like we didn't progress with it all this time...

That is just not true, the moral progression* is enormous.  The very idea of human rights would be laughable for people of the middle ages. We condemned slavery, we condemned child labor, we condemned racism and misogyny and many other things that were common and unchallenged in the past. Sure, all those things still exist in some forms and places, but they have been identified as malice and are fought against.

I fear many people take for granted all the rights, freedoms and safety's they posses and don't realize how hard great men and women fought in the past (and are still fighting) to archive those. There's still a lot to do, but humanity is in fact bettering itself.


*evolution is a non-directional term, doesn't mean that anythings get's better, just that it changes
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: arcibalde on September 23, 2012, 01:55:25 PM
I'm just saying that people still kill each other.We kill each other 100 years ago, we kill each other 1000 years ago we kill each other 10.000 years ago etc. We still kill each others.

WAR!!!

Send troops kill other humans (enemy). It's same thing all this time. Weapons are different but it's same thing. And not wars only. people kill each other for other reasons too. But all that is same thing.

Like, we are still animals on that level... We progress (more or less) in others areas but there we are still at lvl 1.

Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 23, 2012, 02:04:15 PM
You seem to see it as a bimodal (being the one thing or the other) state, but it is not. What i'm saying is that the killing has become less widespread.


Oh, and to be horrified and disgusted by what you mention in your spoilers is not a conscious moral decision but a inherent biological instinct. Like avoiding incest or hurting yourself. To have the same instinctive reaction to human killing social progress would not be sufficient, it would require biological alteration. I'm not sure if it is desirable to improve us that way.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 23, 2012, 02:05:04 PM
So? Without war there wouldn't be peace. Without war there wouldn't be tech. I mean, compare Pre-WWII to WWII. Technology advanced at a rate much higher than the Pre-war tech. New inventions where designed, which, in the end, became crucial to space travel.


I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: K-64 on September 23, 2012, 02:06:10 PM
I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

I simply cannot agree to that point. There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING glorious about war.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 23, 2012, 02:08:33 PM
Wrongly termed then (excuse me, but i would not know a better term for it), but again, war has led to some good things. Like aforementioned tech advances. Or some stuff like that. Although i would agree that todays wars are rather meaningless. Atleast WWII had a cause behind it (for both sides too). Today is more of a war over drugs than anything.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 23, 2012, 02:32:43 PM
I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

I find it hard to believe that you could seriously mean something as cruel, deluded, and altogether inhuman as that. It disgusts me. I really hope you just did not think properly before writing.

I could write for hours how utterly wrong this it, but let me just say this: in world war 2 there were about 25 Million  soldiers killed in war but about 50 million civilians. Aside from the question if there was any glory for the soldiers or what that is even worth, there sure is non to be found for those 50 million death children, women and men.


Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 23, 2012, 02:38:28 PM
That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

There is a huge difference between dying of old age at 60+ (some of your organs slowly giving out and can't perform their function) and dying at 0 ~ 100 because your body was ripped to pieces... yeah modern weaponry will still shred your body to pieces, it just does it better than bunch of guys with swords and axes.

You can go ahead and enjoy having your body destroyed by bullets and bombs ::)

Not to mention war tends to get boatload of non combatants killed... how glorious is it when kids and elderly are buried alive in their home from bombing? ::)

Also tech evolve without war.  What war does is funnel lot of resources into war-related techs.  Granted military techs are important for any society to resist outside force, but to think that people come up with most of their inventions during war is misinformed.

Edit: Upgradecap is 15 years old... that probably explains how war looks glorious to him/her.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: arcibalde on September 23, 2012, 02:40:25 PM
So? Without war there wouldn't be peace. Without war there wouldn't be tech. I mean, compare Pre-WWII to WWII. Technology advanced at a rate much higher than the Pre-war tech. New inventions where designed, which, in the end, became crucial to space travel.


I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

Did you go in war or did any war come at you? Did you see with your own eye's in flesh (not on television) what war can do? Do you know sound of tomahawk flying over your head or sound of ammunition storage explosion just 2 km from you, shattering all glasses on building and open all fridge doors (in entire building) and earth shake so hard that you instantly sit down. Too see and feel panic all around you all the time... It's... It's... unimaginable...

I have friend (my mom and dad godfather/bridesman) who was in war, couple of months, he come back on some kind of relief and he hid at my home so they couldn't find him to get him back on front lines. He was staying with us about 6 months and first 2-3 months he barely could speak and after that he speak only simple sentences. Only after 6 months he start, gradually, to speak normal.

Another dude i know do not have any facial hair, not eyelashes, not eyebrows, not hair, not beard, nothing. He watched column of people who were returning from the front. From that sight he lost every bit of hair on his face and it never come back...

War is most stupid/dumb thing that people "invented", and still stick to it. To say that war is something OK is just... wrong.


@Gothars I didn't aim at instinctive reaction to human killing I aim at conscious reaction to human killing like instinctive reaction... BLAH! I can't express myself good enough.

Yeah i know that Upgradecap is 15 years old but where is this world going if more of his generation see war like him. As technological improvement of human race. Upgrade there is no point in technology advancements if you are dead.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 23, 2012, 02:47:12 PM
I just probably did have a horrible brain-fart, as per usual when i try writing something constructive at night. What i meant to say was that the glory of way simply was of ask the heroic deeds from (not fighting!) but the technology that advanced, or the lives that where saved by the medics


And if you both think of war as such disgusting, them why are we still having wars?



@arcibalde i assume that you've personally experienced war first-hand to have a right to say they, no? My grandfather was involved first-have in both WWI and WWII. My father has also experienced war first hand, when the Balkan war broke out.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: K-64 on September 23, 2012, 02:49:43 PM
And if you both think of war as such disgusting, them why are we still having wars?

Simple greed is why
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: arcibalde on September 23, 2012, 02:57:45 PM
I'm from Balkan. And i was 17 when NATO bombard my country. So about tomahawks, ammunition storage explosion and many other things, yes i was there personally. I see it i feel it. It wasn't like wars before with guns and foot soldiers but it was war. Little girl, 5 years old, going to bathroom, sitting on the toilet get killed by bomb shrapnel flying through window (40cm x 40cm) and hitting her in head. Do you think she is happy about technological advancement?

I totally agree with K-64 about greed thingy. War isn't about advancement it's about greed and money. That is all, everything else is pure collateral damage.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 23, 2012, 03:10:35 PM
Ok, it's good to know you are 15, that means you still have a lot of time to form and progress your opinions. Maybe it's good for you to see the reaction of people who have actual experience with those matters, or have at least thought and learned about it more.

Wrongly termed then (excuse me, but i would not know a better term for it), but again, war has led to some good things. Like aforementioned tech advances. Or some stuff like that. Although i would agree that todays wars are rather meaningless. Atleast WWII had a cause behind it (for both sides too). Today is more of a war over drugs than anything.

I think I kind of grasp were you are coming from with this. Competition, rivalry and pressure to innovate are strong motivating forces for technological progress. And war is a form of heavy competition.
Still, to generalize that war means progress is a big mistake. The potential motivation for progress is opposed by a much higher potential for degeneration and decay of civilization. There are many wars in history that did not further development, but eroded cities, nations and peoples. The antique civilization of Rome with all it's technological and philosophical prowess was eradicated by war, which lead to the period of time known as the dark ages.
The Thirty Years' War in the seventeenth century depopulated and set back parts of Europe for 100 years to come, to name another example.
arcibalde described much better than I could how it is with modern wars.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 23, 2012, 03:34:44 PM
And if you both think of war as such disgusting, them why are we still having wars?

Because people can disagree (not just verbally, but through actions) with each other to the point where killing the opposing side seems like the best idea for one or more of the parties involved.

And just because something is (in your argument, that war exists) doesn't mean it is the right thing (is war good or bad).  I can say that evil exists... that doesn't translate into an argument that therefore evil is not so evil.  It's just a statement about reality.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Aratoop on September 24, 2012, 12:00:53 AM
Back on topic before this gets nasty...

I think this is brilliant, even though it won't happen in any of our lifetimes :p
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Rowanas on September 24, 2012, 03:11:35 AM
Back off topic, I like the nasty :P (I'm kidding, I'll re-track this thread by the end of my post)

I'm entirely undecided about war. I don't have enough experience or data to work out whether the overall progression, de-population and resulting diplomatic ties that arise from war are equal to the reasonably temporary, but pretty horrific suffering caused by it. Certain wars may have added to the general pool of happiness, while others did not. I believe strongly that it can be a good thing to kill somebody, and as an extension, to kill many people, so it's something I haven't properly come to grips with yet.

Thread Re-railing!

How the hell does changing the rough shape cause such a vast difference in the enrgy required? I get streamlining and I suppose there might be something similar in high energy physics, but what is it that caused this massive jump in energy consumption?
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 24, 2012, 07:55:05 AM

I'm entirely undecided about war. I don't have enough experience or data to work out whether the overall progression, de-population and resulting diplomatic ties that arise from war are equal to the reasonably temporary, but pretty horrific suffering caused by it. Certain wars may have added to the general pool of happiness, while others did not. I believe strongly that it can be a good thing to kill somebody, and as an extension, to kill many people, so it's something I haven't properly come to grips with yet.


Leave it to a guy who wishes humanity to end to list de-population as a positive aspect of war... at least you are consistent in you misanthropy.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 24, 2012, 08:03:27 AM

Leave it to a guy who wishes humanity to end to list de-population as a positive aspect of war... at least you are consistent in you misanthropy.

Me? I did never say that that was a positive aspect of war! I said that the technological advancements and lifes that heroic and brave medics save, not the horrible deeds idiots can accomplish!
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: LordHerpDerpington on September 24, 2012, 08:22:30 AM
On topic: @rowanas - That's a good point. However, some shapes do affect things - aerodynamics, for instance, and parabolic mirrors. However, I could be wrong if I said that the shape of the ship worked that way, so I won't.

Back off-topic: Damnit guys, stop being depressing.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 24, 2012, 08:31:04 AM

Me? I did never say that that was a positive aspect of war! I said that the technological advancements and lifes that heroic and brave medics save, not the horrible deeds idiots can accomplish!

No, Rowanas. The quote was a hint.


@ Topic: As long as there is no theoretical physicist in our midst there is little hope of understanding the details of how a shape change can have that effect for any of us.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Rowanas on September 24, 2012, 08:56:02 AM
@ Topic: As long as there is no theoretical physicist in our midst there is little hope of understanding the details of how a shape change can have that effect for any of us.

Eureka! If I became flatter around -my- midsection, I too would be able to move vast distances in a short amount of time! The previous design was simply a little porky. Nothing to be ashamed of, little theoretical warp-capable craft, it happens to the best of us.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 24, 2012, 09:39:41 AM
Well, this isn't the discussion I thought would spring up from this post.

And to contribute to the, ya know, actual topic, here's a wikipedia article about the warp drive mentioned in the article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive)

And after reading it, I take back most of my claims (this is what happens when you read news articles and not scientific journals for science stuff *sigh*). I'm still willing to bet that, if scientists are on the right path and this thing can be made, it'll happen before the end of the century.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: LordHerpDerpington on September 24, 2012, 11:41:46 AM
Back on topic: Okay, so it's not that possible.

For those of you who haven't read about the physics, the "exotic matter" has to have negative mass. So it won't be happening anytime soon.

As I understand it, the way that space-time works is that objects with mass make a dent in it, as they push down on the fabric. Sort of. Not really.

The negative mass pulls in the space-time around it, allowing it to cross the contracted mass in front of it. Sort of. Not really.

I think that's how it works. I think.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 24, 2012, 12:28:07 PM
negative mass.

Does that not apply to Dark Matter?
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 24, 2012, 02:39:13 PM
negative mass.

Does that not apply to Dark Matter?

Kind of the opposite, actually. Dark matter is supposedly what makes up most of the mass of the universe. Things with negative mass-energy are theorized to be created in minute amounts in some quantum thingamabob. We don't have any way of producing it, which is kinda the whole lynchpin of creating a warp drive.

Also, it will most likely require tachyonic matter (matter that already travels faster than light) or require further understanding of quantum gravity. Non-trivial tasks, to be sure.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 24, 2012, 02:55:56 PM
But what about dark energy or something like that? IIRC, the universe consists to a very large degree of Dark Energy.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 24, 2012, 03:01:06 PM
But what about dark energy or something like that? IIRC, the universe consists to a very large degree of Dark Energy.

From Wikipedia: "In physical cosmology and astronomy, dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy that permeates all of space and tends to accelerate the expansion of the universe. Dark energy is the most accepted hypothesis to explain observations since the 1990s that indicate that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. In the standard model of cosmology, dark energy currently accounts for 73% of the total mass–energy of the universe."

In other words, dark energy has positive mass-energy.

EDIT: And here's some info from wikipedia on dark matter: "In astronomy and cosmology, dark matter is a type of matter hypothesized to account for a large part of the total mass in the universe. Dark matter cannot be seen directly with telescopes; evidently it neither emits nor absorbs light or other electromagnetic radiation at any significant level. Instead, its existence and properties are inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter, radiation, and the large scale structure of the universe. Dark matter is estimated to constitute 84% of the matter in the universe and 23% of the mass-energy."

In other words, it also has positive mass-energy.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 24, 2012, 03:03:25 PM
But what kind of material would have negative mass? Nothing in this universe, that's for sure. Or maybe not, since we haven't even begun scratching the surface of all secrets, but still. I'd find an more acceptable theory to use that could be counted as legit:

Wormholes.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 24, 2012, 03:11:29 PM
But what kind of material would have negative mass? Nothing in this universe, that's for sure. Or maybe not, since we haven't even begun scratching the surface of all secrets, but still. I'd find an more acceptable theory to use that could be counted as legit:

Wormholes.

Wormholes and the alcubierre drive operate on extremely similar principles. In fact, they both require negative mass-energy if we want to do anything with them.

From the wiki article on the Alcubierre drive: "It is true that certain experimentally verified quantum phenomena, such as the Casimir effect, when described in the context of the quantum field theories, lead to stress–energy tensors that also violate the energy conditions, such as negative mass-energy, and thus one can hope that Alcubierre-type warp drives can be physically realized by clever engineering taking advantage of such quantum effects."

And the part that you should really read from that wiki article: "Thus, as the energy density is negative, one needs exotic matter to travel faster than the speed of light.[1] The existence of exotic matter is not theoretically ruled out; however, generating enough exotic matter and sustaining it to perform feats such as faster-than-light travel (and also to keep open the 'throat' of a wormhole) is thought to be impractical. Low has argued that within the context of general relativity, it is impossible to construct a warp drive in the absence of exotic matter.[3] It is generally believed that a consistent theory of quantum gravity will resolve such issues once and for all."

EDIT: Also, I was slightly wrong about not being able to produce negative mass-energy. The Casimir effect can be used to create a "locally mass-negative region of space-time," but we don't have any way of harnessing that. That being said, the Casimir effect also has some potential uses outside of warp drive stuff, so... yeah, just thought that was interesting.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: CrashToDesktop on September 24, 2012, 04:33:38 PM
You are all now under survailance by the CIA.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Archduke Astro on September 24, 2012, 05:46:22 PM
You are all now under survailance by the CIA.

Regarding surveillance: the CIA is very powerful indeed, but this site's moderation team is one heck of a lot closer to this subforum. ;)

Seriously, though -- interesting discussion, folks. Kindly continue, please, but without more of the warfare off-topic detour.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Archduke Astro on September 24, 2012, 06:14:16 PM
"...one can hope that Alcubierre-type warp drives can be physically realized by clever engineering taking advantage of such quantum effects."

Naufrago found a really interesting feature to quote from. The excerpt above is always the part in such blue-sky dream schemes which makes me sigh with dismay: the required, unprecedented engineering / materials science breakthrough that everything else eventually relies upon. One may as well substitute the above-quoted phrase with something akin to "---and then a miracle happens". :-\

I want this to succeed just as much as you guys do, but since the 1970s I have read optimistic blurbs such as multiple excited rumors, premature news reports, and articles in OMNI magazine (back when OMNI was really awesome) promising us the stars "real soon now, just as soon as we can get a million tons of unobtainium to harness these energies." Hence my jaded tone.

Oh, and somebody earlier in this thread mentioned wormholes as one possibility for FTL travel. Alas, that appears to be unlikely, if Wikipedia is to be believed. I quote:

"The Einstein–Rosen bridge was discovered by Albert Einstein and his colleague Nathan Rosen, who first published the result in 1935. However, in 1962 John A. Wheeler and Robert W. Fuller published a paper showing that this type of wormhole is unstable if it connects two parts of the same universe, and that it will pinch off too quickly for light (or any particle moving slower than light) that falls in from one exterior region to make it to the other exterior region.

The motion through a Schwarzschild wormhole connecting two universes is possible in only one direction."

What a bitter irony, to safely use this method of FTL travel at all, you will already require some other reliable method of FTL travel. Man, it makes one's head hurt to chase the logic bunnies like this. ::)

The thought of us being marooned on this warm rock until a big enough asteroid crosses our orbit at the wrong time just chills my spirit. If we cannot find a realistic means to spread self-sustaining colonies of H. sapiens throughout the stars, we're likely going to perish right where we began. I greatly doubt that our shared distant future is going to even remotely resemble Star Trek, but even a comparatively inefficient, under-performing method of travel at very low multiples of c would change everything. Everything.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Rowanas on September 25, 2012, 02:05:59 AM
What we clearly need is to send off vast Generation Ships, housing millions of people in vast, sustainable arcologies. In every piece of fiction, we always send off the Generation Ships and -then- discover FTL travel to get there before they do, so clearly we're not going to get FTL as long as our universe is free of Generation Ships.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 25, 2012, 02:26:47 AM
Regarding Archduke:


Well, i can't remember the article that i got this from, but theoretically, it should be able to keep a wormhole open for a long enough time to send a drone through it. The signal from the done would probably never reach us, considering that wormholes lead to all kinds of different sectors in the universe. So, i think that, even if we did get some unknown material to keep a wormhole open, i doubt we could ever use it, as they are far too random.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 25, 2012, 04:54:51 AM

"The Einstein–Rosen bridge was discovered by Albert Einstein and his colleague Nathan Rosen, who first published the result in 1935. However, in 1962 John A. Wheeler and Robert W. Fuller published a paper showing that this type of wormhole is unstable if it connects two parts of the same universe, and that it will pinch off too quickly for light (or any particle moving slower than light) that falls in from one exterior region to make it to the other exterior region.

The motion through a Schwarzschild wormhole connecting two universes is possible in only one direction."


If we should discover a stable, suitable Einstein–Rosen bridge that leads to another universe, who is to say it would be worse there than some unknown place in our own? We just need more habitable space, it doesn't matter where that space is. I read a short story (Asimov I think) a few weeks ago about a future in which long distance space travel was found out to be impossible. Instead mankind utilized dimensional portals and settled on million different versions of alternate universe earths. If we discover a way to artificially generate those bridges before we figure out FTL it might really be a good option.




Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Upgradecap on September 25, 2012, 05:34:19 AM
Speaking of which, that kinda me of the combine, which also never used any spaceships, but instead utilized some special tech to user instant-travel portals to other planets and dimensions.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: LordHerpDerpington on September 25, 2012, 08:24:55 AM
@gothars - The only problem is that most universes would have completely different reality structures, so nothing from our universe could exist there. Nothing.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 25, 2012, 08:42:22 AM
@gothars - The only problem is that most universes would have completely different reality structures, so nothing from our universe could exist there. Nothing.

According to the multiverse theory there is possibly a infinite number of universes, necessarily containing a infinite number of universes that are very similar to our own. So, if constructing a bridge, we would had to have a way of measuring the divergence. Then we could make sure to access a habitable universe.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: LordHerpDerpington on September 25, 2012, 09:52:20 AM
I know about that, I just summed up my post quickly because Iwasrushed for time and typing on a really small tablet.

Yes, it would be possible to find one of the habitable universes, but the chances of that are infinitesimally small, given the fact that, there are more universes without our reality structure than with. Even if we did find one, there could be very big problems - The primary gas could be cyanide gas, or chlorine. Non-Euclidean geometry could be in effect. If we're really unlucky, we could find Cthulu.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 25, 2012, 02:56:28 PM
Just to get this topic a slight dose of reality check...

Have we even got to the point to measure anything faster than light?  I think not and it's kinda weird talking about something we haven't even began to measure yet.  Then again the gist of FTL travels are not about actually moving faster than light but taking shortcuts through space... am I somewhere on the somewhat right area here or am I just seriously misinformed?
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 25, 2012, 03:58:41 PM
Just to get this topic a slight dose of reality check...

Have we even got to the point to measure anything faster than light?  I think not and it's kinda weird talking about something we haven't even began to measure yet.  Then again the gist of FTL travels are not about actually moving faster than light but taking shortcuts through space... am I somewhere on the somewhat right area here or am I just seriously misinformed?

I don't really understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway.

Things that are slower than the speed of light can never go faster than the speed of light (well, that's not 100% true- look up Cherenkov radiation), and things that are faster than the speed of light can never be slower than the speed of light. It's theoretically impossible. The speed of light in a vacuum is basically a threshold that nothing can cross- at least, not without exploiting some loopholes in the way the universe works. We have no way of exploiting those loopholes just yet.

Currently, we have no way of detecting tachyonic matter (matter that travels faster than light). In fact, we're not even sure that stuff exists. I don't know much more than that, so I can't really answer anything about it.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gothars on September 25, 2012, 04:51:47 PM
Yes, it would be possible to find one of the habitable universes, but the chances of that are infinitesimally small, given the fact that, there are more universes without our reality structure than with. Even if we did find one, there could be very big problems - The primary gas could be cyanide gas, or chlorine. Non-Euclidean geometry could be in effect. If we're really unlucky, we could find Cthulu.

This surpasses my mathematical knowledge, but as I understand it, because we are calculating with infinity, it's just as likely. If we have an infinite number of possibilities every subset of those possibilities is infinite as well. So the number of possibilities included in a (habitable-) subset is the same number as all possibilities. If you randomly choose one, the chance that it belongs to a subset of size infinity against the chance that it belongs to the total amount of size infinity is infinity:infinity.
Which might, and here I'm really not sure again, be the same as 1:1 or 50% chance of finding a habitable planet.

If someone would like to correct everything I just said that person would be very welcome.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: naufrago on September 25, 2012, 06:20:09 PM
Yes, it would be possible to find one of the habitable universes, but the chances of that are infinitesimally small, given the fact that, there are more universes without our reality structure than with. Even if we did find one, there could be very big problems - The primary gas could be cyanide gas, or chlorine. Non-Euclidean geometry could be in effect. If we're really unlucky, we could find Cthulu.

This surpasses my mathematical knowledge, but as I understand it, because we are calculating with infinity, it's just as likely. If we have an infinite number of possibilities every subset of those possibilities is infinite as well. So the number of possibilities included in a (habitable-) subset is the same number as all possibilities. If you randomly choose one, the chance that it belongs to a subset of size ? against the chance that it belongs to the total amount of size ? is ?:?.
Which might, and here I'm really not sure again, be the same as 1:1 or 50% chance of finding a habitable planet.

If someone would like to correct everything I just said that person would be very welcome.

Infinity isn't quite as simple as that; two sets of numbers can both be infinite, but one set can still be larger than the other. For example, there are more Real numbers than Natural numbers. That being said, there are just as many even integers as there are integers. That's not a typo. It just depends on the cardinality of the infinite set.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Thaago on September 25, 2012, 07:27:53 PM
The whole parallel universe interpretation comes from quantum mechanics... so unfortunately has absolutely nothing to do with wormholes, bending space, or anything else general relativity based. This is a consequence of the fact that quantum mechanics and general relativity, while they are both the most experimentally verified theories of how things work, have nothing to do with each other and cannot (yet) be combined in a meaningful way. A wormhole to another universe would not be an 'alternate' universe in the many worlds sense, but would rather be another pocket of space like our own that is causally disconnected from our own universe (example: its farther away in light years than our universe is old and the 'space' between is expanding faster than local light speed, so nothing from our universe can possibly affect it. Except (maybe) through a wormhole or other horrible distortion of spacetime).

About FTL: the proposed drive isn't making the spaceship move faster than light - its making the space around the spaceship displace relative to the fixed stars and carrying the spaceship along. This is theorized to happen by stretching the space in rear and compressing the space ahead - and the rate of stretch/compress of spacetime is not limited by the speed of light. The math is messy and I've never read the papers describing it in detail, so thats about all I can say.

The new discovery isn't exciting because its immediately applicable, but because it radically lowers what we might have to achieve 100 years from now. The energy cited in an article I read (about the mass of one of the voyager probes) is equivalent to the energy output of the United States over about 4 years. Thats actually a conceivable amount, even if its a heck of a lot more than we can do now.

For stuff about infinity look up 'countably infinite' and 'uncountably infinite'. Its not the whole picture but really drives home that there are several types of 'infinite'.
Title: Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
Post by: Gaizokubanou on September 26, 2012, 07:24:42 PM
Just to get this topic a slight dose of reality check...

Have we even got to the point to measure anything faster than light?  I think not and it's kinda weird talking about something we haven't even began to measure yet.  Then again the gist of FTL travels are not about actually moving faster than light but taking shortcuts through space... am I somewhere on the somewhat right area here or am I just seriously misinformed?

I don't really understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway.

Things that are slower than the speed of light can never go faster than the speed of light (well, that's not 100% true- look up Cherenkov radiation), and things that are faster than the speed of light can never be slower than the speed of light. It's theoretically impossible. The speed of light in a vacuum is basically a threshold that nothing can cross- at least, not without exploiting some loopholes in the way the universe works. We have no way of exploiting those loopholes just yet.

Currently, we have no way of detecting tachyonic matter (matter that travels faster than light). In fact, we're not even sure that stuff exists. I don't know much more than that, so I can't really answer anything about it.

You understood my question just fine, those were pretty much the kind of response I was looking for.  Thanks~