Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Fan Media & Fiction => Topic started by: Dohon on December 27, 2011, 06:26:05 AM

Title: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dohon on December 27, 2011, 06:26:05 AM
I read through all the blog posts and I especially liked the lore post called "The State of Affairs". I'm an amateur writer and I always get excited when I read deeper into an intresting and intriguing universe. Starfarer looks to be gritty, dark and slowly slipping into damnation. Which is awesome. :) Now, the blog post got me all sallivating and I have some questions. So, I was wondering if me and the other dwellers could ask some lore questions in this thread? Unless the lore is still something to be kept under wraps for now, of course. :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ivaylo on December 27, 2011, 06:36:05 AM
Please go ahead and ask, but we will have to clear responses with the High Hegemon's Sector Media office, and that can take a while.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dohon on December 29, 2011, 05:35:17 AM
Cheers! I have compiled a small batch. Well, not exactly small. Rather large actually. Huge even. Sorry about that. In return, I promise I'll write fanfiction in the near future. Promise!

Here goes:

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: mendonca on December 29, 2011, 10:36:14 AM
Nice questions :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on December 29, 2011, 11:12:34 AM
Cheers! I have compiled a small batch. Well, not exactly small. Rather large actually. Huge even. Sorry about that. In return, I promise I'll write fanfiction in the near future. Promise!

Oooh, fan fiction! I'm excited. And that is a huge list. Let me answer a few of these now just to whet your appetite, and we'll get to the rest of them soon.


  • How long is a sector cycle compared to a standard Terran year?

The same. Within a cycle, standard Terran months and days are used.


  • How do ships travel around the sector? Is there some kind of hyperdrive or is it all done at sub-light speeds and using cryogenics?

Hyperdrive - ships enter an alternate dimension. Though there's still a bit of internal debate about the specifics :)


  • Is communication between planets instantaneaous? Or rather radio-wave speed?

Somewhere in-between - there are comm relays, and news can take days/weeks to get around.


  • Have there been attempts to seek out other sectors? Is that even high on the agenda of Starfarer's factions?

Unknown. Any such attempt *would* have to use cryogenics (in hyperspace) and would be extremely dangerous.

  • How big is the sector? Are there hundred of worlds? Or is more like dozens?

About 6 months to a year to traverse using hyperdrive. Aiming for ~1k star systems, but that could change appreciably in either direction.

  • How many of those worlds are 'major worlds'?

We're calling them "core worlds", and there are ~20. There's no colonization going on anymore - that's beyond human capability now. So any core world that's lost - whether due to the collapse of authority, war, or large-scale industrial sabotage - is a permanent blow against human civilization in the Sector.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Zarcon on December 29, 2011, 11:33:09 AM
  • How big is the sector? Are there hundred of worlds? Or is more like dozens?

About 6 months to a year to traverse using hyperdrive. Aiming for ~1k star systems, but that could change appreciably in either direction.

  • How many of those worlds are 'major worlds'?

We're calling them "core worlds", and there are ~20. There's no colonization going on anymore - that's beyond human capability now. So any core world that's lost - whether due to the collapse of authority, war, or large-scale industrial sabotage - is a permanent blow against human civilization in the Sector.

Wow, about 1,000 star systems?   :o  That is making me rethink my limited understanding of how the campaign will eventually play out, very cool!  :)   

So, since there will only be about 20 core colonized planets, what will the other roughly 980 star-systems consist of?  Barren planets to be used as mineral deposits, or maybe set up with a space station for trade and refueling?  Just curious what there is to do out in the wide world, if the planets out there are not inhabited.  :) 

Or wait....you said beyond human capability.

Dun dun dun!   :o

Man I'm really getting excited to see 0.5 soon, good times indeed.







Also, Aliens are now confirmed to exist in Starfarer!   ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ivaylo on December 29, 2011, 04:05:08 PM
Ask, and ye shall receive. ;D




How many worlds are under the control of the Hegemony? How do the other factions compare to that?

The Hegemony all started with 5 core worlds, when it was established, and has grown a bit further since. I believe the exact number will actually be part of the begin-game randomizer.

How long does it take on average to reach a nearby world?

Well the distances vary wildly. It also depends on if the world is in the same star system or a different one. If one was travelling in a cruiser, on average it would take about five days to reach the nearest star with hyperdrive.

What are the main factions? We know of the Hegemony, Tri-Tachyon and the Luddites. Are there other big league players?

The Star Patrol, an elite group allied with the high echelons of the Hegemony, The Free Traders Guild, The League of Nonaligned Worlds, pirates, and so on :)

Is the Selenius system still independent?

This information is classified with a minimum rating of Planetary Clerk of Arms for view rights. Sorry!

The Luddites abhor technology, yet are not afraid to use it. Do they consider using technology to be a temporary measure? Do they believe the sector can survive at all without UAC's and autofactories? Can their society function at this very moment? Or are they just some sort of 'terrorist group'?

Use of technology is considered a necessary evil, and is only sanctioned by the Messiah, Hand of Lud or High Priests. According to their beliefs, the Sector will not only survive, but flourish if all technology is eliminated and humanity returns to an agrarian society. For proof that humans can function without the curse of technology, one need look no further than the Chronologicon, which describes a time of blissful utopia that existed on ancient Terra before the invention of space travel.

Are there still worlds that are being actively terraformed? Or is terraforming considered to be Lost-tech?

Terraforming is no longer taking place anywhere in the Sector, since the know-how has been lost. There are still some worlds that were being terraformed at the time of the Collapse, their biospheres being inundated with nanotechnology left without commands for hundreds of years.

Is there a standard template for an autofactory? Or do they differ in shapes and thus have hundreds of templates?

Not sure what you mean by a standard template here. But, in any case, the core component of the autofactory is the UAC interface which is able to somehow decode the data within and execute commands into the hardware servos.

Are shipyards considered to be a massive autofactory?

They are very similar, but naturally, the orbital shipyards are setup in a specific way to deal with the vacuum of space and with mainly producing ship's hulls.

Can new autofactories be constructed at all?

While it is possible to construct an autofactory doing so is a difficult task. Furthermore, the limiting factors for construction are usually the lack of raw resources required, and often, the lack of required blueprints.

Are autofactories the only way to produce things or is the sector reverting back to old school manual labor?

All manufacturing is centered around the autofactory model. This does not at all eliminate manual labor. Even within the manufacturing process, many laborers are involved with completing tasks that do not require advanced technology to complete. Like buffing.

Production is done by using templates provided by UAC's. How important are those to the 'tech level' of the sector? Is Tri-Tachyon doing research on its own for instance? Or are most technological innovations rediscovered instead of researched?

Research has a different meaning than the word as it is known to us today. Research, the one done by Tri-Tachyon and others, is a process that involves a couple of things. First, techmining, or retrieving Domain artifacts to locate blueprints or working components. Second, analysis deconstruction and\or integration. Lastly, potential blueprints extraction. That last step is extremely rare though.

Since Inferium is the sole source of space fuel, what stops the hegemony from dominating its regulation? Or is the source of Infernium far more widespread, allowing other factions to gather their fill?

Infernium occurs naturally in almost all matter, but the refining process is extremely difficult and time consuming. Hence, the Hegemony does not dominate this resource.

How is everyday power generated? Fusion, anti-matter? Do spaceships use the same powersource for everyday activity or is spacefuel the only thing that keeps a ship running?

Various power plant types exist. Which is in use depends on many factors, such as the technical support structure present, power plant blueprint availability, and market forces. The Chronologicon on the Epochs of Man, a definitive historical text, relates: "... power was produced differently during the Four Epochs, starting with chemical, fission, fusion, then advancing to plasma and eventually matter-antimatter plants."

How widespread is piracy? Are we talking the glory days of the buccaneers in the Caribbean? Or are the other factions capable of keeping their main lanes secure?

Piracy is pretty widespread. The only way we know to stop it is to humbly not include an extremely invasive DRM scheme, and thereby shame all potential pirates into actually buying the game, which will of ... WAIT THOSE KIND OF PIRATES!!! Hm, OK, still pretty widespread. ;D

Are mercenaries organised in any way? Battletech for instance had Merc-Net, where everyone interested (and rich!) could hire a merc. Or is it more 'I know a guy' and visiting the seedier bars, thus making it more of a quest to find mercenaries?

Mercenary outfits exist, but it’s not as widespread. The reason here is that it takes a lot to run an entire fleet of ships.

Are there any notorious pirates or mercenaries? The IIS Black Star seems to be quite known for instance.

One of the most infamous is the dread pirate Kalgar Thrax, a cruel warlord known for his methodical extermination of captured crews not eligible for ransom. Another example, while not a mercenary, is Admiral Sonnel, a famous Hegemony flag officer and hero of many battles, most notably the epic, defining battle fought at the midpoint between the three star systems Fal, Gal and Tar near the Mediosolar Expanse.

Do they still have beer in the far future? :)

Humanity has been fermenting sugars for thousands of years. There is absolutely no reason Sector brewers would all of a sudden abandon their ancient and noble vocation. Cheers.

Is there currency in the sector? Is it universal and thus accepted by everyone?

The Sector-wide currency is the Domain Credit, or just credit for short. In the times of the Domain it was backed by the universal authority of the Second Economic Dictatum, which served to create the universal currency amongst other things. Post-Collapse, the Sector has failed to produce a financial authority that supercedes that of the Domain.

How is the chain command for the Hegemony? Do you have an admiral in charge? A leader? An oligarchy? Do they use contemporary military ranks?

The Hegemony features one of the most rigorously administered chains of command in the history of humanity, too complex to list here. As such there are many organizations within the all-encompassing Hegemony, such as the Administratum, the Engineer Concilium, and the Military. All of these are of course subservient to the High Hegemon-Administrator. As far as ranks, they mostly follow standard military ranks of today. The main division is the one between officers and men, with non-commissioned officers serving as well. Thus, an officer with the rank Commander may sometimes be the senior commanding officer on a ship (especially frigates).

Do the Tri-Tachyon or the Luddites use a similar chain of command?

The Ludii do not actually have a chain of command at all, just the Messiah and various High Priests. Tri-Tachyon on the other hand, is highly regimented, if not as sprawling as the Hegemony. The Tri-Tachyon military is commanded by the Chief Strategy Officer, who reports directly to the Vice President of War.

How are ships piloted? Is it the same principle like a bridge in Star Trek? Or do the Tri-Tachyon for instance use more fancy stuff like advanced computer systems and holographics, allowing for smaller crews?

None of the ships feature bridges like those found in Star Trek. Ship tech level is actually the determining factor, and the "how" varies considerably. After all, some of the ships flying together now were designed during different Epochs of the Domain, hundreds, sometimes thousands of years apart. A Mastery Epoch ship bridge has more the feel of a World War I submarine, cramped and utilitarian, even claustrophobic. Crew comforts obviously improved with subsequent Epochs, but it was never a huge design priority. Remember, only one of the ships currently in the game has an exploratory role, the Apogee-class. In Star Trek, Starfleet ships are mostly exploration ships, not warships (with the exceptions of ships like the Defiant-class).

How are captains, officers and crew trained? I imagine the Hegemony uses an academy or something, perhaps even just conscripting crew from the 'undesirables' in society. Tri-Tachyon might do more headhunting, since I believe that not every scientists is as 'adventurous' as a ship's captain. The Luddites perhaps just make do with eager volunteers. Something along these lines?

It varies considerably, as you might guess. Typically, core worlds that belong to a faction will serve as their primary recruiting grounds. For example, Hasteus Prime serves that role for the Hegemony, as well as being its capital.

How are marines armed? Do we have low-tech marines with ballistics, middle-tech with some laser weapon and high-tech marines covered in an exoskeleton? Or am I just going overboard? :)

Usually powered armor, with an extremely wide variety of personal sidearms and equipment.

Are planetary invasions commonplace?

They are rare nowadays, since the amount of resources required is so vast, and usually, there is so little to gain. Raids on shipping and planet-bound supplies are far more common.




EDIT: BTW, standard disclaimer on my answers above. Some of what I've said may change, specifically things related to gameplay. I am sure you guys are aware that it is still under development. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dohon on December 30, 2011, 12:11:52 AM
Ivaylo and Alex, thank you both! Not only have you guys answered each question, but you have done so in less than 24 hours! You guys are amazing and awesome. So are the answers too! It should get me started on my little story. Well, my interpretation of little anyway. :p I'll be sure to pester you guys with more questions in the future as they pop up while I'm writing.


Wow, about 1,000 star systems?   :o  That is making me rethink my limited understanding of how the campaign will eventually play out, very cool!  :)   

So, since there will only be about 20 core colonized planets, what will the other roughly 980 star-systems consist of?  Barren planets to be used as mineral deposits, or maybe set up with a space station for trade and refueling?  Just curious what there is to do out in the wide world, if the planets out there are not inhabited.  :) 

Or wait....you said beyond human capability.

Dun dun dun!   :o

Man I'm really getting excited to see 0.5 soon, good times indeed.

Also, Aliens are now confirmed to exist in Starfarer!   ;D

I don't think that all of those worlds are uninhabited. I can imagine mining posts, trade posts, a few prison worlds, listening posts, weapon testing facilities, even a few space-monasteries perhaps. While those worlds might just consist of a large base, 'domed over' to protect them from less than ideal atmostpheric conditions, there is life there. It's only the core worlds that are fully terraformed and have sufficient population and industry to be considered powerhouses.

Now, what to do when you suddenly stumble upon an alien outpost ... :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Thana on December 30, 2011, 12:30:51 AM
I do think that if there are aliens, I hope they can be turned off in the campaign settings or that they're an optional/endgame element. I'd be quite happy, for once, not to deal with aliens taking over the show in a space scifi game.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ollobrains on December 30, 2011, 04:15:33 AM
If this is a sandbox then plenty of scope for maybe colonization or exploration and expansion packs and other content as u go along
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alchenar on December 30, 2011, 07:41:22 AM
If this is a sandbox then plenty of scope for maybe colonization or exploration and expansion packs and other content as u go along

Well this is a big problem that Mount and Blade had; in the initial version there was very little to actually do with the sandbox.

It's telling that the major mods and expansions for M&B all added two things to the game:

1) The ability to form your own kingdom

2) Strong, neutral themed armies that were distinct to the main factions.

I'm kind of taking it for granted that at some point planetary conquest will be an endgame option in Starfarer (although not necessarily; there are plenty of directions the game can be taken where it wouldn't feel like it was missing).  I'm also hoping that there will be some form of endgame antagonist challenge that will be optional but also fun and rewarding to go after and alien incursions are a nice easy way to do that (but again, hardly the only option)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on December 30, 2011, 05:29:15 PM
It should get me started on my little story. Well, my interpretation of little anyway. :p I'll be sure to pester you guys with more questions in the future as they pop up while I'm writing.

Looking forward to it :)


Wow, about 1,000 star systems?   :o  That is making me rethink my limited understanding of how the campaign will eventually play out, very cool!  :)   

So, since there will only be about 20 core colonized planets, what will the other roughly 980 star-systems consist of?  Barren planets to be used as mineral deposits, or maybe set up with a space station for trade and refueling?  Just curious what there is to do out in the wide world, if the planets out there are not inhabited.  :) 

I don't think that all of those worlds are uninhabited. I can imagine mining posts, trade posts, a few prison worlds, listening posts, weapon testing facilities, even a few space-monasteries perhaps. While those worlds might just consist of a large base, 'domed over' to protect them from less than ideal atmostpheric conditions, there is life there. It's only the core worlds that are fully terraformed and have sufficient population and industry to be considered powerhouses.

Yep. There's a hard line between "core world" and "outpost" in my mind. The latter can still be established without too much effort and still play a significant role in the economy. Finding a good spot to establish one, both in terms of available resources, location, and security is going to be the tricky part.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ollobrains on December 30, 2011, 11:28:00 PM
so how much of a breathing living unverse outside of the core worlds is being planned at least on the inital realise or will it be empty lawless space and later expansions or patches may add further things to do and gameplay elements
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dohon on January 05, 2012, 03:43:18 AM
Here's another batch of questions. On the bright side, I have written a few chapters down for my story. They should be up in the none too distant future. :)

****

I know the specifics are still being discussed, but what is Hyperspace? Is it just another dimension, largely similar to ours? Or is it similar to the Warp in Warhammer, with its own denizens and such?

Is there such a thing as a 'standard' autofactory? Or do they all vary in size and shape?

How advanced is computer AI? Do we even have independent AI's or is it all still user-centered? Does it depend on the ship and the world's tech level?

How advanced is medical technnology? Can we cure cancer for instance?

Are bionics and cybernetics commonplace? Or is it something rare and reserved for the rich and famous?

Ships don't have windows, right? Or is there some kind of alloy that allows both protection from vacuum and being transparant at the same time?

How many 'epochs' are there and what do they signify? There is a Master Epoch for instance. What does master mean in this case?

Are ships capable atmospheric craft? Can a frigate land on a planet and are the larger ships bound to remain space-side?

Do civilian craft outnumber military ships? Or are ships so rare that you seldomly see them in private hands? Would an individual be considered very fortunate if he had a lowly shuttle for instance?

Are there 'ship graveyards' where you have dozens of wrecks floating around? Or are wrecks quickly salvaged because ships are so damn rare?

Can one Domain credit get you alot or do you need several credits to get a loaf of bread?

What is the basic social unit? A family? An extended family? A tribe even?

Is there a dominant religion? The Luddites have their own religion, but are there groups that actually believe in an otherwordly entity?

Is there a universal language?

How is transportation handled? Do we drive along in cars similar to our current ones? Or is it more hovercar and flying car?

Are there Space Elevators? Or do shuttles transport people and supplies from the surface into space?

Do we have droppods? Or are marines brought to a planet's surface using shuttles?

Is ship boarding limited to after-combat or is it feasible to send over marines to a fully functional ship? How do marines board? Space-walking, boarding pod/shuttle, transporters even?

What would be the most iconic battle that has happend in the Sector?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on January 06, 2012, 02:08:21 PM
Hmm. Most of these questions aren't something that is going to be answered directly in the lore. My view on it is that part of the game's job is to give the player's imagination room to work, which means leaving lots of little questions unanswered.

Some of questions have gameplay implications, so can't yet be answered for that reason.

I can, however, confirm that spaceships have windows (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=transparent+aluminum) :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dohon on January 06, 2012, 04:29:37 PM
Cheers for the reply! I do like the fact that you leave room for interpretation. I'm an information sponge and try to work within the system when writing a story. Hence the question bombardment. I'd hate to sin against the lore.

Heh, I always thought as windows to be too fragile to survive in a spacebattle. This transparent aluminum is hot stuff.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Zapier on February 28, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Given that this post has been buried and I recently had to dig to find it for a few of the lore questions answered awhile back... I thought it could use a bit of a bump. I doubt most of the people who came in at and post .5a have even seen it, and I think it has some information some might like to read and perhaps spawn new Q&A again.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dante80 on February 29, 2012, 10:58:07 AM
Speaking of which, here are two more questions... ;D

1. What is the average age and lifespan of most spaceships in the game? I came with this question because I was thinking about great battleships of days gone by, like some ships of the line that fought their first true battles some 60 years after their birth. It would be rather special to know that the hound you are piloting could be the same age as your grandfather and its not just a matter of tech levels and blueprints applied on automated factories last year...XD

2. Will there ever be a possibility in the game to split your fleet when inside a solar system, or does your fleet also represent an avatar of sorts?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: harrumph on February 29, 2012, 11:41:44 AM
Hey, I'll bite too.

What was the origin of the Tri-Tachyon Corporation? Were they a pre-Collapse corporation, or were they organized in more recent years? Are they actually mostly about business and profit, or do they cling do the whole corporate structure as a kind of mystical talisman of a bygone age, a way of organizing society in opposition to the Hegemony model?

What are decivilized worlds like? Are they mostly horrible, incompletely terraformed wastelands where people barely survive, or are there relatively hospitable ones where society has stabilized at a pre-Space Age, but still technically civilized stage? Little medieval kingdoms fighting over the ruins of the old Domain?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ivaylo on February 29, 2012, 12:57:44 PM
Tri-Tachyon are pre-Collapse. And they are both about profit and also organizing humanity under the corporate model. They believe those are one and the same.

Decivilized worlds vary, but they are usually in the extremely dangerous and hostile range of the spectrum when it comes to the inhabitants. The only decivilized world that is somewhat safe is one that has been glassed. No medieval kingdoms or any out of touch societies though, the rest of the Sector is just too aggressive.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on February 29, 2012, 06:16:31 PM
Can't wait to join the Trader's League. I can see myself ascending the ranks and becoming the administrator of the whole group, with my own massive shipping fleet with a ridiculously large number of Atlas-classes. :D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: arwan on February 29, 2012, 06:19:54 PM
i see myself being a bit more like a Robin Hood of the stars.

large mercenary fleet combating with the larger factions on behalf of the planets that cant afford there protection so that they may stay alive..
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: intothewildblueyonder on February 29, 2012, 06:28:40 PM
i see myself being a bit more like a Robin Hood of the stars.

large mercenary fleet combating with the larger factions on behalf of the planets that cant afford their protection so that they may stay alive..

or you could work on behalf of those planets who can afford their own... "protection" ;D, because , and I'm just sayin', that there are these large fleets that might come around and ruin your space stations, not that I would do anything like that,... but I would really hate to see such a nice planet get boint. So I would like to offer you the opportunity of creating a sectorhood-watch, and I as an upstanding galactic-citizen would be glad to be in charge of the important project
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Wriath on March 02, 2012, 02:11:16 PM
Are starfarer ships capable of entering planetary atmospheres? Does this vary from ship to ship? Do the ships have gravity generating equipment? I notice nothing's rotating so I assume they do... that or damned good seatbelts.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: harrumph on March 18, 2012, 07:44:30 AM
Got another one—how do hull conversions work?

Is the Condor, for example, built in an autofactory from a modified Tarsus blueprint, using similar components to a Tarsus? Or is it launched as a Tarsus and then cut up and reconfigured by human workers?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Temstar on March 19, 2012, 03:58:33 PM
Are starfarer ships capable of entering planetary atmospheres? Does this vary from ship to ship?

I think most ships are not atmosphere capable. Valkyrie class troop transport is a noted exception being designed for planetary assault. Hegemony made a big deal about it trying to ban the sale of this ship precisely because of this reason. So I think it's safe to say atmosphere capability is definitely not a common ability of ships.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Daveydude on March 20, 2012, 02:27:33 AM
I can, however, confirm that spaceships have Windows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista) :)

I fixed your link for you  ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Flare on March 20, 2012, 02:04:29 PM
i see myself being a bit more like a Robin Hood of the stars.

large mercenary fleet combating with the larger factions on behalf of the planets that cant afford there protection so that they may stay alive..

And if things get really bad, you can easily resort to racketeering ;D.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Doom101 on March 20, 2012, 04:53:43 PM
i see myself being a bit more like a Robin Hood of the stars.

large mercenary fleet combating with the larger factions on behalf of the planets that cant afford there protection so that they may stay alive..

And if things get really bad, you can easily resort to racketeering ;D.

i see myself staying out of the way of the TT and hegemony if i can mostly fighting pirates and the cult of lud loony bins.
maybe if i have to acting as a the proverbial shining knight of the independents and traders.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Jonlissla on March 21, 2012, 08:51:28 AM
Might as well add a important question that humanity needs answered:

Is toilet paper still used or do you use 3 seashells instead?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 06, 2012, 10:02:32 PM
Maybe an even more important question. What happens to all of the crew on the boarded ships? Are you honestly telling me that I kill every single person on an Onslaught when I board it? Or when I scrap it? Or when I blow it up? So no matter what I have to kill everyone on the opposing team short of them being lucky enough to escape?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Sarkovar on May 06, 2012, 10:23:51 PM
Well every time your ship blows up you use an escape pod so it's rather foolish to believe that other ships don't have them. A rational explanation would be that after boarding a ship and clearing out any resistance you simply pack the losers into escape pods, or shuttle craft for larger ships, and send them on their merry way while you fly off in your brand new capital ship.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 06, 2012, 10:30:45 PM
What if (plays devils advocate) I want to be more economic and send the losers out into deep space and sell the escape pods/ shuttles for a paltry profit? And still, no one else seems to have seriously thought about killing all of those people. I wonder what Alex thinks about it. He was the one who decided that like 500 people go in an Onslaught.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Sarkovar on May 06, 2012, 10:36:49 PM
Then stuff them in the airlock with the rest of the garbage, nuff said.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 06, 2012, 11:13:56 PM
On an unrelated note. Where are wasp wings piloted from? It can't be the flagship because that can change and you, the commander, can't be controlling those and coordinating the battle. So if all of your other ships are destroyed what happens to the wasp wing?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hyph_K31 on May 07, 2012, 09:21:27 AM
I would assume the drones control themselves. that is after all what most unmanned drones do.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 07, 2012, 10:29:27 AM
So that leaves the option that they could suddenly gain sentience and attack your fleet? Interesting...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Upgradecap on May 07, 2012, 10:35:54 AM
So that leaves the option that they could suddenly gain sentience and attack your fleet? Interesting...

Somehow, i don't think this is a plausible option, considering that skynet doesn't exist.
But i might be wrong........   Horribly wrong...........
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 07, 2012, 10:54:25 AM
Might be an idea for a mod? Hmmm? that's your department right?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: icepick37 on May 07, 2012, 10:56:44 AM
Haha, I didn't think their AI was that smart. Flying a ship isn't THAT complicated.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Upgradecap on May 07, 2012, 10:59:20 AM
Might be an idea for a mod? Hmmm? that's your department right?

Indeed.
Let me extinct humanity by creating skynet.
Hold on a second :D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hyph_K31 on May 07, 2012, 12:45:23 PM
So that leaves the option that they could suddenly gain sentience and attack your fleet? Interesting...

I wouldn't think the drones would be anywhere near intelligent enough to gain the ability to ignore their orders, though i can't see why they couldn't be hacked by the enemy
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Psycho Society on May 13, 2012, 11:13:43 PM
e: Well this post no longer makes sense. It's for the best.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Xareh on June 08, 2012, 12:19:27 AM
I'm going to ask a bit of a question that's been in my mind for a good while.

With the population the size it is (and particularly Tri Tachyon) surely we would, eventually, get engineers and scientists with enough talent to analyse/reverse engineer autofactories to make the blueprints for new ones, or having grown up surrounded by high tech they could make alterations and new pieces of tech? And

It's kinda like the Civilization games, you'll eventually spawn a great person who can grant your civilization something spectacular, and the Mark IX Autocannon is proof that tech can still be messed around with.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on September 01, 2012, 08:55:36 PM
A few questions relevant to my current interests...

-How are "independent" systems governed (like Exar, I mean). Do they have things under control? Are pirates particularly rampant in worlds not controlled by hegemony or tri-tachyon? Is the hegemony actually doing Exar a favor by taking it out of the incompetent hands of the Exar High Command (Does Exar High Command even exist?)

-Are the Ludii a major threat to the military? or are civilian targets all they go for?

-Are their systems with multiple "jewel worlds"? (jewel worlds being places suitable for human life without assistance, so like Jungle or Terran) If so, how common?

-Has anyone ever cracked an UAC since the collapse? Has anyone ever?

-How are planets named? On one hand Exar seems to use actual names (Exar Prime, Exar Secundus), on the other many seem to simply use numbers (Corvus I, Corvus II). Hastaeus Prime was also mentioned... Is Prime simply what they call the best planet in a system? The first planet?

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on September 01, 2012, 09:20:35 PM
With the understanding that a lot of stuff is TBD/liable to get retconned the instant it becomes convenient to do so, let me answer a couple of these.

-How are "independent" systems governed (like Exar, I mean). Do they have things under control? Are pirates particularly rampant in worlds not controlled by hegemony or tri-tachyon? Is the hegemony actually doing Exar a favor by taking it out of the incompetent hands of the Exar High Command (Does Exar High Command even exist?)

They have things under control, as much as anyone else. The Hegemony isn't doing Exar any favors, though - the government in that world has collapsed, and restoring it to order is something beyond the power of anyone in the Sector to do. The Hegemony fleet is coming to glass the decivilized world, to remove it as a destabilizing influence - otherwise its industrial facilities/tech may fall into the hands of undesirable elements, it'll serve as a source of manpower for pirates and such, refugees will flood nearby worlds, etc.

-Are the Ludii a major threat to the military? or are civilian targets all they go for?

Generally, they go after softer targets and try to destabilize the government, whatever it happens to be. Details heavily TBD, though.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on September 01, 2012, 10:04:40 PM
So Exar Command is basically in shambles and Exar is screwed either way?


my mod just felt a lot less meaningful  :'(

well, dystopian world is dystopian...

What about the guys in The Last Hurrah? Are they the last remaining thread of the government saving the world from total annihilation in the vain hope to reestablish order?

Also, which ship is the most comfortable, the least?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on September 02, 2012, 09:26:17 AM
What about the guys in The Last Hurrah? Are they the last remaining thread of the government saving the world from total annihilation in the vain hope to reestablish order?

They're more concerned with saving the people on that world - friends, families, loved ones. Most of them - the commanders, certainly - realize that the world has gone over the brink and is beyond saving in the long-term. Not that they have much hope of success going into that battle - it's more of a "die with the world" than an earnest effort to do something useful.

In the context of that mission - if they did win, they'd probably become the first refugee fleet to leave the planet.


Also, which ship is the most comfortable, the least?

High tech is more comfortable - sleek, clean interiors. Lower tech ships are more cramped, with lots of exposed piping, wiring and conduits, and other things to bang your head against if you're not careful. Larger ships tend to be more comfortable, especially for the officers and the captain.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 02, 2012, 10:15:04 AM

They're more concerned with saving the people on that world - friends, families, loved ones. Most of them - the commanders, certainly - realize that the world has gone over the brink and is beyond saving in the long-term. Not that they have much hope of success going into that battle - it's more of a "die with the world" than an earnest effort to do something useful.

In the context of that mission - if they did win, they'd probably become the first refugee fleet to leave the planet.


That makes me want to read a after battle report for every mission...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 03, 2012, 09:01:04 AM
I've got a question: Is there an official lore explanation why fighters get replaced in carriers?
I would imagine that you don't really buy fighters but more a Universal Access Chip. On it are the fighters blueprints and advanced DRM that keeps you from making more then a specified number of copies at a time. Since technological knowledge has degraded so much, there is no hope of overcoming and hacking the DRM. With the chip, fighter copies can be build quickly by small autofactories on carriers or stations. I'd guess the same would go for missiles and ammo.

Does this go in the right direction or is there a different explanation?

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ivaylo on September 06, 2012, 01:35:40 AM
We also discussed the idea of having fighters that are "packaged" and can only be activated by a carrier's mini-autofactory. It doesn't really build that much, but mostly just activates the fighter, which is packaged in a container designed to minimize space.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Psycho Society on September 06, 2012, 02:42:57 AM
I like how fighters aren't constrained to carriers alone. But they definitely could use a little something to make them stand out and differentiate the classes of ships. Something to make the astral an immediately better carrier than lesser ships besides just defenses and flight decks.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 06, 2012, 03:48:42 AM
So the supplies would include pre-packed replacement fighters, interesting. That might account for the fast repair time, it might mean that fighters are not immediately repaired but deactivated and replacements are activated. That would even account for the fact that fighters have the same repair times on all carriers (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4248.0), even on small ones like the Gemini! Cool!
Well,  there had to be some logistic-geniuses in my crew to plan ahead the rate of fighters in the supplies, but whatever.

Thanks for the answer :)


Another question, if you please: I noticed the graphics for the tactical map are labeled "warroom", does that mean it represents the character being physically in such a command room while looking at that map?


I like how fighters aren't constrained to carriers alone. But they definitely could use a little something to make them stand out and differentiate the classes of ships. Something to make the astral an immediately better carrier than lesser ships besides just defenses and flight decks.

See the thread linked above, there are some ideas for just that. Even though my lore concerns regarding carrier differences are now eased, I still think more choice would make for more interesting gameplay.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ivaylo on September 07, 2012, 01:27:36 AM

Another question, if you please: I noticed the graphics for the tactical map are labeled "warroom", does that mean it represents the character being physically in such a command room while looking at that map?


See the thread linked above, there are some ideas for just that. Even though my lore concerns regarding carrier differences are now eased, I still think more choice would make for more interesting gameplay.

You're welcome :)

We were thinking that there is a neural interface that each admiral can connect with, which let's him/her visualize what you, as the player, see in the tactical map. It is not necessarily a room, although different bridge configurations (especially on earlier Epoch ships) lack the neural interface and are in fact, rooms.

But we keep changing the name of that. It was called warroom, then C&C, then something else. I kind of lost track. The reason we changed it from war room is that it' ;s not pronounceable, I think? It was a while back ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: FlashFrozen on September 07, 2012, 10:57:51 AM
I've always kinda wondered, just how are shields explained in starfarer  ;D

Since well, they seem to be selectively able to choose what passes through (your weapons) but blocks everything (their weapons) but also not everything (fighters)
Seems like it is just another one of those deus ex machinas :P
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ivaylo on September 09, 2012, 05:41:53 AM
I've always kinda wondered, just how are shields explained in starfarer  ;D

Since well, they seem to be selectively able to choose what passes through (your weapons) but blocks everything (their weapons) but also not everything (fighters)
Seems like it is just another one of those deus ex machinas :P

One of the many questions people have been unable to answer for the past 200 or so Sector Cycles is how Domain scientists managed to incorporate the negation of force tensors into shield emitter technology, without there being any overt link between the emitters and the weapons systems on ships (even friendly ships of the same fleet).

The progress humanity had achieved is truly astounding.  ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on September 09, 2012, 08:41:27 AM
I've always kinda wondered, just how are shields explained in starfarer  ;D

Since well, they seem to be selectively able to choose what passes through (your weapons) but blocks everything (their weapons) but also not everything (fighters)
Seems like it is just another one of those deus ex machinas :P

Well, considering you can get a real-life machine gun synced up with a propeller to fire through its blades as they move, I don't find any of this particularly surprising or unreasonable, given the tech levels involved.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ghoti on September 09, 2012, 09:40:48 AM
can you get a propeller to reliably stop incoming bullets?  ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: MrCoffee on September 09, 2012, 08:35:43 PM
Just think of it like in Star Trek were weapons are in the same sync as the shields so their own weapons can go trough them but the enemies cannot, unless they figure out in what sync your shields are!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ghoti on September 09, 2012, 09:28:51 PM
The idea is to vibrate the mauler shell JUUUST right.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: icepick37 on September 10, 2012, 09:43:04 AM
Haha, yeah Ghoti, I was thinking the same thing.

Or perhaps you blink the shield at just the right moment to allow pass-through. And the astronomical odds of enemy fire passing through at the exact same instant is just abstracted away to nothing.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: GUNINANRUNIN on September 10, 2012, 10:11:49 AM
I've always kinda wondered, just how are shields explained in starfarer  ;D

Since well, they seem to be selectively able to choose what passes through (your weapons) but blocks everything (their weapons) but also not everything (fighters)
Seems like it is just another one of those deus ex machinas :P
Fighters are presumably flying over and around the ship.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on September 12, 2012, 07:25:06 AM
(This is the only place I could think to post this so here it goes...)

Perhaps i am reading to far into this but, it almost seems like with many of the factions that we have met you can draw detect parallels  with parts of Alex's life particularly his childhood.  Little bit of background on Alex for those who don't know, he was born in Moscow, judging from the way he talks (online) and the games he says he played as a kid i would place his age in the late twenties to early thirties , the wall was still up when he was born he later moved to America where he has lived sense(feel free to correct me on any points which i am wrong).  Take the Hegemony for instance; big, militaristic, dominating, use a large cheap military, all traits similar to the USSR.  The Tri-Tachyon corp on the other hand represents america or more precisely capitalism unbounded.  They use a expensive  relatively small force (similar to America in the cold war).  The player may represent Alex attempting to navigate the world.

Thoughts, feedback, any and all is appreciated!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 12, 2012, 07:53:28 AM
Yes, you are reading to far into this.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: harrumph on September 12, 2012, 08:17:18 AM
Au contraire! The US and the USSR during the Cold War each represented the textbook definition of hegemony, and both were big, militaristic, and dominating. Both used large, expensive militaries (Soviet equipment wasn't always well-maintained, but it was extremely sophisticated and cost them far more than they could really afford). They may have wrapped themselves in different flags, so to speak, but they behaved very similarly. I think you could actually argue that the US was the more aggressive, more archetypically hegemonic power; the Soviets generally maintained a defensive posture and didn't engage in such dramatic adventurism as the Americans.

And yeah, you're definitely reading too much into it, but I like the idea of applying literary textual analysis to a game. It's a shame we don't do it more often!

(If I were Alex, though, I think I might be a little weirded out.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: BillyRueben on September 12, 2012, 08:58:07 AM
I like the idea of applying literary textual analysis to a game. It's a shame we don't do it more often!
It really isn't. People read in to things that just aren't there to begin with. Of course, people do the same thing with any kind of art.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on September 12, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
(If I were Alex, though, I think I might be a little weirded out.)

 :-\

Off-topic question: does anything about the way I speak write give away that I'm not a native English speaker? Aside from the occasional dropped article, that is - for which, if on Twitter, I plead 140 chars :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: BillyRueben on September 12, 2012, 09:04:04 AM
Off-topic question: does anything about the way I speak write give away that I'm not a native English speaker? Aside from the occasional dropped article, that is - for which, if on Twitter, I plead 140 chars :)
Write? No. Speak? Yes. Until I heard that interview you did for (insert gaming website here), I didn't suspect anything.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Uomoz on September 12, 2012, 09:08:21 AM
Off-topic question: does anything about the way I speak write give away that I'm not a native English speaker? Aside from the occasional dropped article, that is - for which, if on Twitter, I plead 140 chars :)
Write? No. Speak? Yes. Until I heard that interview you did for (insert gaming website here), I didn't suspect anything.

Ha! Googled that out: http://www.immortalmachines.com/?p=641
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on September 12, 2012, 09:17:27 AM
Gah! Man, it's so weird to hear yourself talk.

Sorry for taking this completely off-topic :)

To bring it back:
Or perhaps you blink the shield at just the right moment to allow pass-through. And the astronomical odds of enemy fire passing through at the exact same instant is just abstracted away to nothing.

Or the shields are one-way. Or the technology allows for small gaps to be created, in time with the projectiles leaving the ship. Advanced enough technology, magic, etc. (Not that it doesn't need to be self-consistent, but that's a slightly different matter.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Uomoz on September 12, 2012, 09:22:51 AM
What about shields similar to what Dune have: in that case is the speed of the projectile that matters, in SF maybe the *direction* and *vector* (outgoing projectiles are allowed).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: harrumph on September 12, 2012, 09:27:46 AM
It really isn't. People read in to things that just aren't there to begin with. Of course, people do the same thing with any kind of art.

Yeah, I studied English literature (and may yet go on to get a PhD) so this kind of nonsense is my bread & butter. Not to derail the thread even further, but I do think there's value in "things that just aren't there to begin with"—literary criticism has gone way too far in terms of thinking authorial intent irrelevant, but there's often more to a text than just what its author consciously intended.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: BillyRueben on September 12, 2012, 09:36:42 AM
It really isn't. People read in to things that just aren't there to begin with. Of course, people do the same thing with any kind of art.

Yeah, I studied English literature (and may yet go on to get a PhD) so this kind of nonsense is my bread & butter. Not to derail the thread even further, but I do think there's value in "things that just aren't there to begin with"—literary criticism has gone way too far in terms of thinking authorial intent irrelevant, but there's often more to a text than just what its author consciously intended.
I guess I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. I find that a lot of the time the author just wants to tell a good story and a game developer just wants to make a good game.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: icepick37 on September 12, 2012, 09:40:02 AM
Off-topic question: does anything about the way I speak write give away that I'm not a native English speaker? Aside from the occasional dropped article, that is - for which, if on Twitter, I plead 140 chars :)
Yeah, sometimes the way you write things hints of the second language. But it's all nuance and I can't think of a specific example. And I wouldn't have been sure until you said that.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on September 12, 2012, 09:46:26 AM
(If I were Alex, though, I think I might be a little weirded out.)

 :-\

Off-topic question: does anything about the way I speak write give away that I'm not a native English speaker? Aside from the occasional dropped article, that is - for which, if on Twitter, I plead 140 chars :)
I was talking in terms of age not if English is your second language sorry for the confusion :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: harrumph on September 12, 2012, 09:49:18 AM
I find that a lot of the time the author just wants to tell a good story and a game developer just wants to make a good game.

Totally, and I don't think critical interpretation necessarily detracts from that. We can have our cake and eat it too!

By the way, Alex, if you told me you were from the Iron Range (in Minnesota), I probably wouldn't so much as blink.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: XpanD on September 13, 2012, 01:26:09 PM
Off-topic: That podcast is fun stuff! Good to hear the person behind the username sometimes. ;)

Somewhat on-topic: I'm hard at work writing a piece of lore (2.5 A4s so far) for my Worksmen mod, which I'm trying to tie in with what I've understood of the main story so far. Really helpful thread for working out the details!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Pendragon on September 18, 2012, 09:51:19 AM
Something that I was toying with was a lore justification for the command point and deployment system that is currently used in combat as I have not seen one so far. Here is what I came up with:

Ships equipped for combat, in addition to the normal sensor suite and other standard systems, are also equipped with broad-spectrum jamming tools that flood local space with interference and mean that normal communication is virtually impossible. Under these circumstances the only way to communicate is by prearranged code blips of high-power transmission that can only transmit very basic orders regarding pre-arranged objectives and ship-identities. Anything more complicated is smothered by the blanket jamming.

The jamming tools are adaptive however and after a certain number of blips will adapt to block even these most basic of transmissions meaning that a commander must be very selective in who and what he orders, even limiting the number of ships he deploys. Deploying more is not safe as after a certain limit IFF systems are unable to cope and friendly fire is almost inevitable.

The extra power and systems gained by possession of objectives such as sensor stations, nav buoys and most especially comm stations enables a commander to cut through the static to order additional ships into combat and state additional objectives.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: GUNINANRUNIN on September 18, 2012, 10:13:51 AM
Something that I was toying with was a lore justification for the command point and deployment system that is currently used in combat as I have not seen one so far. Here is what I came up with:

Ships equipped for combat, in addition to the normal sensor suite and other standard systems, are also equipped with broad-spectrum jamming tools that flood local space with interference and mean that normal communication is virtually impossible. Under these circumstances the only way to communicate is by prearranged code blips of high-power transmission that can only transmit very basic orders regarding pre-arranged objectives and ship-identities. Anything more complicated is smothered by the blanket jamming.

The jamming tools are adaptive however and after a certain number of blips will adapt to block even these most basic of transmissions meaning that a commander must be very selective in who and what he orders, even limiting the number of ships he deploys. Deploying more is not safe as after a certain limit IFF systems are unable to cope and friendly fire is almost inevitable.

The extra power and systems gained by possession of objectives such as sensor stations, nav buoys and most especially comm stations enables a commander to cut through the static to order additional ships into combat and state additional objectives.

Thoughts?
That actually makes sense. Though I just thought points simply relied on the admiral's innate command abilities and those of his officers.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 18, 2012, 02:36:30 PM
That's a good explanation attempt, well done. I expect it will be somewhat impaired once character progression allows for more command points, though. You could still explain it by increasing coding/decoding ability, but that's something a communications officers does, not the character himself.

And even right now the description of Hornet's Nest speaks of a combat-inexperienced commander, represented by few command points.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: icepick37 on September 18, 2012, 03:02:44 PM
Yeah the lore doesn't really need to explicitly justify EVERY gameplay mechanic does it?

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 18, 2012, 03:36:46 PM
Yeah the lore doesn't really need to explicitly justify EVERY gameplay mechanic does it?


Why not, I think it's fun to try. The fewer logic gaps there are, the easier it is to immerse in the game world, at least for me. As long as the gameplay is not altered just to be more explainable, but that's nothing I can see Alex do, ever.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: naufrago on September 18, 2012, 05:46:40 PM
Yeah the lore doesn't really need to explicitly justify EVERY gameplay mechanic does it?


Why not, I think it's fun to try. The fewer logic gaps there are, the easier it is to immerse in the game world, at least for me. As long as the gameplay is not altered just to be more explainable, but that's nothing I can see Alex do, ever.

Something I miss about games from my childhood is how I used to be able to fill in the gaps with my imagination. Part of it is that, since I'm no longer a child, my imagination isn't as rampant, but also modern games feel the need to explain everything. I'm perfectly happy with a game not providing an explanation for every little thing since it leaves room for me to interject my own thoughts and theories.

That being said, I also really like story in my games. I'm okay with a game explaining things if it adds to that. I should really think up some question about the lore, since it's started to pique my interest.

EDIT: Ok, here are a couple-

• How is power derived from Infernium? Is it just a good source of nuclear energy or does it generate power through more exotic means?
• If it generates power through more exotic means, what makes certain isotopes of Infernium useful as energy and what ends up as depleted Infernium?
• Why use depleted Infernium as ammo in certain guns (like the Gauss cannon) rather than something plentiful and dense like lead?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 18, 2012, 06:09:35 PM
Something I miss about games from my childhood is how I used to be able to fill in the gaps with my imagination. Part of it is that, since I'm no longer a child, my imagination isn't as rampant, but also modern games feel the need to explain everything. I'm perfectly happy with a game not providing an explanation for every little thing since it leaves room for me to interject my own thoughts and theories.

That being said, I also really like story in my games. I'm okay with a game explaining things if it adds to that. I should really think up some question about the lore, since it's started to pique my interest.

For me it's not the lack of imagination that hinders immersion, but my much better understanding of how a game is designed, technic- and gameplay-wise. If I did not know to this day what polygons, sprites, collision borders or event triggers were I would never notice them and take a game for what it is meant to be, not for what it is. That's why I love those moments when the game is so interesting, the events so fascinating, the immersion so deep that I forget about all technicalities and just have the experience, naive as a child.

In games that rely heavily on immersion it can kill the entire thing for me. Once I understood how things worked in Skyrim (without ever attempting to) it suddenly seemed so mechanical, I lost interest and never finished it.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: naufrago on September 18, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
In games that rely heavily on immersion it can kill the entire thing for me. Once I understood how things worked in Skyrim (without ever attempting to) it suddenly seemed so mechanical, I lost interest and never finished it.

That happened for me too with Skyrim. Once I saw through everything the game had to offer and I'd become as powerful as my character could become (well, I could have eked out a couple extra %, but for more effort than it would be worth), I lost interest. That's actually happened a lot to me recently. I've become so used to games that I've become too good at seeing through to the underlying mechanics in almost every game I play. Unless the mechanics themselves are fun (like in Starfarer or Super Mario Galaxy) or there's a story worth pursuing (like Chrono Trigger), I tend to lose interest.

As I like to put it, the magic is gone. When you get more experienced, rampant speculation gets replaced with educated guesses. You go from seeing boundless possibilities to seeing only limitations and boundaries. Once the mystery of how things work is gone, you're left with nothing but a pile of mechanics and a story. Those need to be sufficient to keep an experienced player hooked.

It's not necessarily a failing of modern games (although many certainly try too hard to capture the elusive concept of 'immersion'), but many games can't simply accept the fact that they're "games"; they try to be an experience. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it's good to want to achieve greater heights, but sometimes you just want a game that is a game. They need to get the underlying mechanics right, then build on top of that. I think that's where a lot of games, modern or not, get it wrong.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Pendragon on September 18, 2012, 10:16:49 PM
That's a good explanation attempt, well done. I expect it will be somewhat impaired once character progression allows for more command points, though. You could still explain it by increasing coding/decoding ability, but that's something a communications officers does, not the character himself.

And even right now the description of Hornet's Nest speaks of a combat-inexperienced commander, represented by few command points.

Good point, though perhaps an experienced commander has a much better understanding and rapport with his captains than an inexperienced one. He discusses the battlespace and strategy with his captains before they enter combat and they understand from drills, combat simulations and past battles what he wants almost before he transmits his orders. This means that an experienced commander only needs to use two or three blips to communicate one command point's worth of orders while an inexperienced one is forced to use five or six and so has fewer command points overall. An experienced commander may even have blips left over to assign extra IFF designations allowing him to have more ships on the field without the need of the additional systems provided by objective buoys.

For me having a lore explanation for game mechanics is actually a massive increase in immersion as when I get frustrated for example, by a lack of command points, I'm not frustrated by a game mechanic, I'm frustrated by an aspect of the world which my character is grappling with just the same as I am. If I want to tell a ship to fall back but have no command points left it's not because my character's suddenly lost the ability to pick up the communicator, it's because my character's orders are getting lost in a sea of static and interference.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on September 27, 2012, 01:56:19 AM
are there artigrav (artificial gravity) in this universe?

if so, how common are they? (all ships? just the high tech ones? just the big ones?)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: dogboy123 on October 09, 2012, 01:31:16 PM


Alex is russian?... I have even more proof to my theory that russians make the best video games. :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on October 09, 2012, 02:40:15 PM


Alex is russian?... I have even more proof to my theory that russians make the best video games. :)

On which games do you base that theory?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: dogboy123 on October 09, 2012, 03:03:27 PM


Alex is russian?... I have even more proof to my theory that russians make the best video games. :)

On which games do you base that theory?
Metro 2033 wich was so immersive,
The precursors (you can walk around on planets, fly ships and walk around in ships),Parkan II the same idea as the precursors but with better FPS combat inside ships, IL2 because I love flight sims.


Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on October 09, 2012, 03:24:12 PM


Alex is russian?... I have even more proof to my theory that russians make the best video games. :)

On which games do you base that theory?
Metro 2033 wich was so immersive,
The precursors (you can walk around on planets, fly ships and walk around in ships),Parkan II the same idea as the precursors but with better FPS combat inside ships, IL2 because I love flight sims.

Oh, ok. I thought I missed something. Metro the novel was written by a Russian, but the Videogame was made in the Ukraine. Precursors was also made in the Ukraine.
So, I would not say Russia, but Eastern Europe makes some pretty amazing games, especially because that includes ARMA and STALKER.




Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ArkAngel on October 18, 2012, 05:04:50 PM
with a more on top idea, What would  a guard (prison variety asuming there are prisons) carry as a meele weapon? further more are there prisons? or is it just anyone you capture you execute/ interroate?

 E: would women be allowed to serve in hegemony military? in some cultures on earth there not so i am not sure.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on January 08, 2013, 12:17:36 PM
What kind of government does the Hegemony have?  It it akin to a democracy/republic, or more like a monarchy like it's shown in Hope and Duty?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Pendragon on January 08, 2013, 02:07:47 PM
What kind of government does the Hegemony have?  It it akin to a democracy/republic, or more like a monarchy like it's shown in Hope and Duty?

I haven't gone too much into the government system other than the Admiralty in Hope and Duty but though I have presented a pseudo Feudal system I never envisioned the Hegemony as a monarchy. I view it more as a sort of military republic with a ruling parliament/council made up of the most powerful admirals and generals. That seemed the most natural, stable governmental progression from what was essentially a military coup by the 200th Legion and is something that I'm going to be expanding on in coming chapters.

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on January 08, 2013, 06:42:25 PM
E: would women be allowed to serve in hegemony military? in some cultures on earth there not so i am not sure.

considering sometimes female portraits are seen on hegemony fleets (iirc), I'm gonna say yes
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ArkAngel on January 08, 2013, 08:25:26 PM
Didn't think about that, thanks!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: icepick37 on January 15, 2013, 01:53:07 PM
Actually in some cultures (like in Israel I believe), compulsory military service is required of both genders.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: blamatron on January 17, 2013, 02:58:03 PM
how do the factions glass planets? planets are pretty big, and from the discussion on scale, the ships are not much bigger than most ships today.

For ships above frigate size 1 pixel = 1 meter works pretty well. It corresponds with docking fighter sizes and the windows you see. I say docking fighter because they usually are above the battlefield, you only see the real size the moment they dock on/launch from a carrier, it's about half as big.

e/ That makes the Paragon ~360m long. Fighters 12-21 m.

do they use some sort of special missiles or bombs?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Pendragon on January 17, 2013, 04:40:57 PM
how do the factions glass planets? planets are pretty big, and from the discussion on scale, the ships are not much bigger than most ships today.

do they use some sort of special missiles or bombs?

I imagine that planetary bombardment would make use of some sort of WMD but I also don't think that any faction is actually going to want to do anything to a viable planet that might harm its long term ability to support life. Since the fall actual, viable worlds capable of sustaining an eco-system that will support crops and human habitation are few and far between so I doubt any planet has been "glassed" since the fall. It would be an act of lunacy, permanently harming all of humanity in the sector including the faction doing the bombardment. It's much more likely that any sort of bombardment would be targeted at specific installations like arms factories, garrisons, etc.

"Glassing" may have happened during the days before the fall when there was no concern over resources. If someone was determined to do it though its not beyond reason to think that a powerful fleet would be able to accomplish it. Think of a typical nuclear armed submarine these days. With its armament of nukes it's perfectly capable of leveling if not exactly glassing a reasonably sized country. With an extra thousand years of development behind them the Domain of Man probably had WMDs that made a nuke look like a firecracker. Its likely that the major factions each have a UAC with the blueprints secreted away somewhere but don't want to risk escalation of the conflict by producing and using them.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: blamatron on January 17, 2013, 05:21:00 PM
aah, thank you.

here is the source of my curiosity,



-How are "independent" systems governed (like Exar, I mean). Do they have things under control? Are pirates particularly rampant in worlds not controlled by hegemony or tri-tachyon? Is the hegemony actually doing Exar a favor by taking it out of the incompetent hands of the Exar High Command (Does Exar High Command even exist?)

They have things under control, as much as anyone else. The Hegemony isn't doing Exar any favors, though - the government in that world has collapsed, and restoring it to order is something beyond the power of anyone in the Sector to do. The Hegemony fleet is coming to glass the decivilized world, to remove it as a destabilizing influence - otherwise its industrial facilities/tech may fall into the hands of undesirable elements, it'll serve as a source of manpower for pirates and such, refugees will flood nearby worlds, etc.



follow up question:
The ship designs we have seen so far are generally geared towards space combat, but there are some (Valkyrie, Atlas) that are suited for other roles. Are there ships that are specifically suited to bombing planets and asteroids, or would they just sort of rig up a Dominator with a bunch of Reapers?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Pendragon on January 17, 2013, 05:56:10 PM

They have things under control, as much as anyone else. The Hegemony isn't doing Exar any favors, though - the government in that world has collapsed, and restoring it to order is something beyond the power of anyone in the Sector to do. The Hegemony fleet is coming to glass the decivilized world, to remove it as a destabilizing influence - otherwise its industrial facilities/tech may fall into the hands of undesirable elements, it'll serve as a source of manpower for pirates and such, refugees will flood nearby worlds, etc.



follow up question:
The ship designs we have seen so far are generally geared towards space combat, but there are some (Valkyrie, Atlas) that are suited for other roles. Are there ships that are specifically suited to bombing planets and asteroids, or would they just sort of rig up a Dominator with a bunch of Reapers?


Well I'll be, I hadn't actually seen that. I guess it does still happen from time to time. With regards to the ships I really don't know. I think that's something that will be decided as the universe of Starsector develops. I imagine that if ground bombardment is a common practice in warfare then there would be ships dedicated to it. If it is more of an exception rather than a rule then I think they would likely just use ordinary ships fitted with WMDs designed for ground deployment like the afore-mentioned super-nukes.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: dogboy123 on January 17, 2013, 06:46:26 PM
Is there any info on the "non-human race" the Domain of Man supposedly  had a war with? (this is not suggesting that they be added to Starsector, as I think an alien race would ruin the feel of the game)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: firstattak1 on January 18, 2013, 07:46:14 AM
How/when/why did the tri tach. Seperate from the hegemony? And if try we're never part if the hegemony where do the come from?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on January 18, 2013, 11:45:54 AM
I think the Tri-Tachyon was basically a real company before the collapse.  As it, they bought and sold stuff for a profit.  I'd bet at the time of the collapse, the TT had a particularily large contract with the Domain, producing war materials.  When the gates shut down, they decided to use those supplies to their own advantage.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: naufrago on January 18, 2013, 06:44:23 PM
how do the factions glass planets? planets are pretty big, and from the discussion on scale, the ships are not much bigger than most ships today.

For ships above frigate size 1 pixel = 1 meter works pretty well. It corresponds with docking fighter sizes and the windows you see. I say docking fighter because they usually are above the battlefield, you only see the real size the moment they dock on/launch from a carrier, it's about half as big.

e/ That makes the Paragon ~360m long. Fighters 12-21 m.

do they use some sort of special missiles or bombs?

There was a thread a while back where I calculated that the kinetic energy of a Gauss Cannon would have the explosive yield of a fairly large nuke (and all that force would be directed at the target, not have a mostly spherical explosion like a traditional nuke). Also, the Gauss Cannon does something like 700 damage. From that, we can infer that most weapons in the game have the destructive potential of at least a small nuke.

So. Many, if not most, guns in the game could conceivably destroy a planet, or at least devastate the infrastructure. It seems to me that a single Onslaught with its Thermal Pulse Cannons, which have effectively unlimited ammo, would be well-suited for orbital bombardment.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on January 22, 2013, 07:36:52 AM
Is there any info on the "non-human race" the Domain of Man supposedly  had a war with? (this is not suggesting that they be added to Starsector, as I think an alien race would ruin the feel of the game)
As far as i know, no, but who knows, maybe they had something to do with the shutdown of the portals... dun dun dun!!! (there needs to be an emoticon for the "dun dun dun!!!" thing :P)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Lucian Greymark on January 23, 2013, 06:10:19 AM
Are there any ships that can go ftl without a different dimension?

How do your ballistic weapons work in spess? Are they all mass accelerators or do they have liquid ignition propellant?

Why do our ballistic weapons suddenly loose range after their arbitrary number? There is no friction in spess, is there lore for this or is it just game balance?

What time period are we looking at here? How far from our current existence is the game set?

If I were to go to a core world as an independent mercenary (Non pirate) what kind of reception could i expect from the different factions?

Provided that cryogenics work as advertised have they woken up Walt Disney yet? And if so where is mickey mouse?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on January 23, 2013, 06:55:37 AM
Are there any ships that can go ftl without a different dimension?

...snip...
As far as i know, the only times when the laws of physics don't apply is when it is convenient for the almighty being known as "The Alex" who is an omnipotent omniscient force who controls the universe and everything in it, so yes ships can go FTL but only if the The Alex wills it.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on January 23, 2013, 07:03:08 AM
How do your ballistic weapons work in spess? Are they all mass accelerators or do they have liquid ignition propellant?

In Starfarer, Domain advances in chemical engineering, nanotechnology and industrialization have led to the development of even more advanced chemical propellants. Of course, not all guns in the game use chemical propellants, as people have noted in the thread. Some are rail guns, others are much more exotic and use Lorentz force to propel their projectile (Mjolnir cannon).

They key thing to remember is that the technology at use in the sector was actually developed during different Epochs of the Domain. And, unlike real life, new tech is not almost always better than the old.


Why do our ballistic weapons suddenly loose range after their arbitrary number? There is no friction in spess, is there lore for this or is it just game balance?

I'd say the lore explanation is inaccuracy on the Z axis. So they pass below or above the target.


What time period are we looking at here? How far from our current existence is the game set?

It's the year 3126.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Lucian Greymark on January 23, 2013, 07:18:01 AM
Excellent. Thanks for the nifty reply. I posted a short story in the forum.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: mostmodest on February 01, 2013, 12:56:03 AM
I've got a few of my own.
(Starting a story about a lovely man named John Nicholson)

How are the systems manned? (As in, are the weapons computer controlled or are gyroscopic seats used to aim the guns? Does the pilot use pedals?)

How rare is it for an individual to leave his position as a crew member for someone else and start a fleet of his own? (or how rare is it for someone to gift an extraordinary officer with his own ship?)

I'll probably have a few later...
Anyway, help is appreciated. :D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on February 01, 2013, 07:22:49 AM
gunning, i like to assume for the smaller guns that it is kinda like that seen in star wars where they are shooting the TIE-fighters in the falcon, except on the bigger guns i like to think of that like a actual battleship gun with multiple people manning one gun.

for pilot, on bigger ships i like to think of it like star trek but for smaller ships (Hyperion(?) and fighters) i would think some petals are involved but honestly i don't know  :-\
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: dogboy123 on March 07, 2013, 08:10:58 AM
when a smaller ship's armor get's red-hot, what is it like to be inside?.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: robokill on March 07, 2013, 09:05:27 AM
10ft of advaced heat resistant radioctive protection intergrated kinectic distribution magic space stuff. you might be in a hound but even the people who made that are smart enoughe to put some sort of protection in.

On taht note i would some confirmation on a thaughte with starsector tech. As guns get more powerful you get more defence as defence increaes you need more guns. The if you took a dominater back and time and pointed it in the general direction of earth it would blow it away right. if this is true then its ok that a duel mg can rip energy shield and space laser destroy armor right.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: icepick37 on March 07, 2013, 11:53:43 AM
when a smaller ship's armor get's red-hot, what is it like to be inside?.
If the armor is separated from the hull by a layer of vacuum, the it'd be almost perfectly insulated.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: dogboy123 on March 08, 2013, 12:09:41 PM
This is just a little nitpick if you will, if shields are overloaded more easily by kinetic damage. Then shouldn't shaped charges like the
Assault Chaingun do more damage to shields since shaped charges are kinetic?.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on March 10, 2013, 01:57:16 PM
The idea is that flux is specifically gravitational fluctuations. The ship's reactor provides power by transmitting spatial manipulations across gravitationally shielded conduits. Normal transmission is in the form of solitons. 1. Entropy builds up in the system through the creation of standing waves at various harmonics. When these standing waves at peak push more energy into the capacitors than they can handle, they short out. Flux vents are specialized grav-wave dissipation devices, and the visual effect from full-on flux blowing is due to ragged space warps. Perhaps quantum foam amplification.

The reactor also uses this space-warping capability to travel.
2. Fleets slow down near planets because the space is already warped; there's backpressure.
Fleets slow down near other ships for exactly the same reason; the space-warping reactors interfere with each other.

Ships use a different engine for combat manoeuvring. 3. This is why travel speed and combat speed aren't simply proportional to each other. Also, it is how enemy fleets entangle each other - they intentionally emit gravitational noise to short out the delicate transportation space-warping process. (Similarly, the contrasting planetary slingshot interaction.) Perhaps defenders turn on the noise at the last moment, whereas attackers aggressively fire up the noise, interfering with their own space-warp manoeuvring, and thus part of the reason they have fewer ships available to deploy.


Anyway, I hope you enjoyed reading the idea as much as I did coming up with it.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on March 10, 2013, 03:25:23 PM
Quote
Ships use a different engine for combat manoeuvring. 3. This is why travel speed and combat speed aren't simply proportional to each other. Also, it is how enemy fleets entangle each other - they intentionally emit gravitational noise to short out the delicate transportation space-warping process.

yeah, that, and in older ship designs that emit less gravitational noise in normal operation (like the enforcer, dominator, and onslaught), officers have discovered the ability to intentionally shut down their shields and maneuvering thrusters to stabilize the ship enough to engage the travel drive for a limited time, either to escape the current encounter or close in to weapon range. This action, however, puts the engine at extreme risk as, despite all possible measures to stabilize the ship, travel drive under combat level of interference makes the engine very volatile and it may explode under any significant level of impact.

The brilliant streaks of fire behind the ships created by the travel drive is rarely seen in combat, this combined with the high temperature in the engine rooms when engaged has caused many in this sector to dub this maneuver as the "burn drive"
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on March 11, 2013, 09:41:53 AM
This is just a little nitpick if you will, if shields are overloaded more easily by kinetic damage. Then shouldn't shaped charges like the
Assault Chaingun do more damage to shields since shaped charges are kinetic?.
Basically shields are projections of the gravity waves of a black hole the high mass of the kinetic slugs (compared to the lower mass of the HE shots) makes the gravity handlers overload and and the EM radiation caused by the overload state creates a disabling EMP effect until the black hole decrees in size due to Hawking Radiation :) IMO
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: robokill on March 18, 2013, 09:12:18 PM
its a game and its sci fi and have all topics as me. ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on March 19, 2013, 07:37:33 AM
its a game and its sci fi and have all topics as me. ;D
What ???
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: robokill on March 19, 2013, 09:33:16 AM
sorry  late last night dummness i was the last poster on all topics.
feel free to delete.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: sdmike1 on March 21, 2013, 09:05:17 AM
There is a button in the upper right ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hari Seldon on May 28, 2013, 02:23:27 PM
Has advanced AI in Starsector become "self-aware" and "generally smart" or are they just expert systems?
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6232.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6232.0)

I heard their classifications: alpha, beta, gamma delta, etc. could you summarize their features?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Pelhamds on May 29, 2013, 05:07:07 AM
Alpha- Sentience, Superior Ship AI used in Domain ships and very high level Tri Tach

Beta- Child like levels of understanding able to understand commands and carry them out cleverly e.g. Wasp wing, Ship AI

Gamma- Simple AI that reacts to stimulus, animal like. Used for low level drones and other defence systems.

Delta- Extremely simple AI that is used for everyday things e.g. doors,machine control and marine armour to regulate temperature ect. (Machine Spirits :P)

(This is solely based off my  interpretation of Alpha,Beta Gamma ect AI from SS and other Sci-Fi)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 05, 2013, 03:39:27 PM
Is the wolf class an early or late expansion era design?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gotcha! on July 05, 2013, 04:07:00 PM
Probably late. All ships with blue engines are from the late epoch. :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on July 05, 2013, 04:27:02 PM
Probably late. All ships with blue engines are from the late epoch. :)

The expansion epoch is the latest epoch before the collapse. If the Wolf-class was designed early or late during that epoch is up to speculation. My guess would be that it was designed around the middle. It doesn't have the rough edges of the Apogee but also lacks the intimidating capabilities of something like the Hyperion.


If you are interested in ship design chronology; I have scribbled up a first draft of an article about that for the manual some time ago. PM me if you wan't to have a look.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 05, 2013, 07:05:27 PM
Thanks Goth.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ember on July 09, 2013, 01:21:43 PM
I've looked around but I haven't been able to find anything about it so ill ask here

I've been wondering about the ships of the different epochs, as in what sort of equipment (shields if any, drives, weapons) did they field in each epoch as well as their design focus across the epochs

I would also like to know when an what happened in each epoch
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 09, 2013, 03:06:13 PM
I've looked around but I haven't been able to find anything about it so ill ask here

I've been wondering about the ships of the different epochs, as in what sort of equipment (shields if any, drives, weapons) did they field in each epoch as well as their design focus across the epochs

I would also like to know when an what happened in each epoch
I'll give you the cut-and-dry.

There's three epochs. Mastery, Core, and Expansion.

The Mastery Epoch was part of our initial expansion and 'mastery' of our local cluster and solar system, slowly becoming accustomed to being a starfaring race. Ships of this era include the Hound, Lasher, Enforcer, Onslaught, and all other manner of vessels. The general design focus was armour, and kinetic weapons, with minimal speed and shields.

The Core epoch was when the general expansion of humanity really kicked in, where we started hunting down habitable planets across the stars, and created what amounts to be the 'core' of the Domain of Man. Large advances in engine and shield technology, as well as considerable pioneering in energy technology resulted in hybridized ships such as the Sunder, Hammerhead, Brawler, Falcon, Eagle, Gemini, And other similar craft. The focus was on middling armour, capable shields, and a robust mixed loadout of energy, ballistic and missile weapons. This was also when strike craft became popularized, with the Broadsword, Warthog, Thunder, and Gladius fighter craft were fielded.

The Expansion epoch was when humanity's technological prowess allowed them to colonize uninhabitable worlds for the first time, allowing barren sectors to be turned into veritable paradises. The Domain likely set out systematically from the core worlds, turning vast swaths of space into breadbaskets, en masse, and then transplanting large populations into the project to assist with the development. The focus of the late-tech craft became speed, shielding, energy weapons, flux efficiency, and strike craft. Advanced fightercraft like the wasp, xyphos, and similar became widespread, and the medusa destroyer, wolf frigate, aurora cruiser were some of the earlier designs, with phase frigates and cruisers coming in much later.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on July 09, 2013, 03:24:59 PM
And after came the glorious fourth, the post-collapse epoch. We (likely) have to thank it for cutting edge designs like the Buffalo Mk.II and Condor-class.

(BTW it's ballistic weapons in the Mastery epoch, not kinetic. Otherwise all good.)

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 09, 2013, 03:32:11 PM
I was using kinetic colloquially as an equivalent to kinetic. :P My bad.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ember on July 09, 2013, 03:33:31 PM
thanks,

couple other questions, do the transitions between the epochs have individual names?

Ive recently started making ships and im told my designs would fit within early exploration and i have no idea where that falls under
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 09, 2013, 03:59:53 PM
Early expansion, likely. The ships that fit into that have a mix of core and expansion design philosophies. Examples would be the apogee, and similar. (Bright white hull, light grey internals, blue trip, better shields, more energy intensive loadout, faster.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 09, 2013, 04:03:01 PM
thanks,

couple other questions, do the transitions between the epochs have individual names?

Ive recently started making ships and im told my designs would fit within early exploration and i have no idea where that falls under
Just looked at your ships in the spriter's thread. What he meant by 'early exploration' was 'pre-mastery.'

What he means is, they look like ships that would have been used while mankind was floundering around the local cluster. Very rudimentary, rough looking, etc. Personally, I don't think they fit into starfarer at all, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ember on July 09, 2013, 04:17:46 PM
I'm rather limited as to what i can make ship wise as Im not very good at pixelated stuff, my ships were made using a kin of 3d parts assembler that I found a while ago , anyway, how doesn't it fit within Starfarer, I would expect that a few individuals would own old ships like these as either collectors items or a cheap alternative to more advanced ships
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 09, 2013, 04:19:55 PM
Fair enough! Ancient, easy-to-manufacture, extremely basic spacecraft could work!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on July 09, 2013, 05:04:56 PM
I was using kinetic colloquially as an equivalent to kinetic. :P My bad.

You mean equivalent to ballistic...again ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 09, 2013, 07:34:36 PM
I was using kinetic colloquially as an equivalent to kinetic. :P My bad.

You mean equivalent to ballistic...again ;)
Goddammit Gothars, y u do dis
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on July 12, 2013, 08:44:23 PM
Anyone else think the order of the epoch names sounds backwards if you don't know the reasoning behind them? e.g. you'd think Mastery would be the final and greatest epoch.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on July 13, 2013, 04:39:30 AM
The greatest epoch is in my signature. ;)

So, with the Jump Gates now in-game, how will this affect the "State of Affairs" lore?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on July 13, 2013, 05:41:32 AM
So, with the Jump Gates now in-game, how will this affect the "State of Affairs" lore?

There are still no Jump Gates in the game, just access points for local hyperspace. That enables travelling to neighboring stars, but doesn't connect the Sector to the rest of the galaxy. So the lore stays just like it is.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on July 13, 2013, 06:18:45 AM
Meh. :P A gate is a gate to me.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gotcha! on July 13, 2013, 07:43:31 AM
I think you should disagree with yourself.

Spoiler
(http://www.stopgapfencing.co.uk/images/wood_garden_picket_gate.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkD1BPGbJhOWMzPLuN8AWbHs8QYjkZMBGt-jaJ6QjOdi4pYvWk)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Brandenburg_Gate.JPG)
(http://blogol.hu/pikz/demonblood/4681gatesofhell.jpg.w560h437.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 17, 2013, 07:46:00 AM
I have a small series of questions here, regarding the Exar.

What form of government do they have? I would assume that via the name (Exar, forming the root of 'Exarch,') that they are the remnants of the proper government of the sector. Not using cutting-edge Domain ships, but instead aiming for the use of much more economic core-era craft, and making excellent use of them at that. I can run on assumptions all day, though, so a little confirmation here and there would be nice.

What sort of uniforms do they wear? We've already got that simple white and black of the Hegemony's flag officers and such, and the blue/black of the Tri-Tachyon. But what's the regalia of the Exar?

In 'the last hurrah,' what sort of logistics would be necessary to restore order to Exar Secondus? Would fresh military boots on the ground, and a good deal of technical specialists suffice, or is it a complete and utter lost cause?

What sort of attitude do the Exar hold towards Mercenaries? Are they more warm and receptive of the help, or are they cool, and distasteful like the Hegemony?

Are they a proper faction in-and-of of themselves, or are they merely a single independent system?

What is their view of combat and mercenaries as a whole? Have they reverted to a pseudo-feudal view of independent, 'honorable' mercenary bands as almost as viable and respected as a proper military flotilla? (a-la mechwarrior).

Anything you can offer will be much appreciated, and these questions are in regard to my short(tm) story.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on July 17, 2013, 12:13:45 PM
heh, I was really interested in the Exar for a while

alex said Exar is a lost cause by the time of the last hurrah:

Quote
the government in that world has collapsed, and restoring it to order is something beyond the power of anyone in the Sector to do. The Hegemony fleet is coming to glass the decivilized world, to remove it as a destabilizing influence - otherwise its industrial facilities/tech may fall into the hands of undesirable elements, it'll serve as a source of manpower for pirates and such, refugees will flood nearby worlds, etc.

the rest I can't answer though
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 17, 2013, 12:33:29 PM
Personally, I think strategic glassing, citizen conscription, mass executions, and additional military troops and logistics might be able to salvage Exar Secondus. It'd be a brutal way to bring the planet to manageable conditions, but it's better than leaving it to anarchy, or glassing it entirely.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 17, 2013, 12:36:09 PM
Another question; The Valkyrie can carry 2 companies of marines. (Bulky, power armoured troops, and their equipment). What about planetary combat forces (IE, mechanized infantry, regular infantry, etc.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on July 17, 2013, 12:45:15 PM
I'm going to go that planetary combat doesn't occur all too often any more - space rules over all.  Planetary bombardment pretty much renders all terran-based forces, well, null.

If anything, being a WWII-addict myself, ground-based forces would be much lighter on their feet and be much more mobile than their Space-Marine cousins.  Being affected by gravity is a big jump. ;) Maybe a few light vehicles, a tank here and there, but nothing larger.  Especially on planets like that of the Corvus II, a jungle, tanks and large vehicles would pretty much be rendered useless by the terrain.  Even on more open planets and places, large formations would be juicy targets for planetary bombardment.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on July 17, 2013, 12:51:54 PM
I don't agree with that, getting a giant cannon (or what have you) into space is a lot harder than just building it on the ground. planetary batteries should be more effective simply by weight class (although there is the problem of projectiles leaving atmos, but I'd like to think they're beyond that at this point.

Then we have a battle of spaceships vs (presumably) far heavier ground based batteries, which means it is more efficient to send troops planetside to take care of these assets, the planetary defenders deploy their own ground troops in response, etc. etc.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gotcha! on July 17, 2013, 12:52:21 PM
I'm going to go that planetary combat doesn't occur all too often any more - space rules over all.  Planetary bombardment pretty much renders all terran-based forces, well, null.

I think the opposite would be true. Space might rule over all, but in order to get to space you need a ship. And ships might be build on large orbital stations, but resources come from planets. Not to mention food and crew. So I can imagine that in a situation like this worlds are continuously fought over, both in space and on the ground. You can bombard everything and everyone from space, but that kind of ruins its resource output. :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on July 17, 2013, 01:01:24 PM
Thing is, a lot of those weapons are produced in space.  And that means it's a lot easier than producing it on the ground.  Compare the WWII-era German Schwerer Gustav artillery, and then the Hellbore Cannon.

And I doubt ground-based artillery would be able to even compare to space-based batteries.  The Schwerer Gustav was the absolute limit of artillery, and it was past practicality.

Resources?  Asteroid fields - there's little that they don't have AFAIK.  Iron, Infernium, water, and a lot more stuff.  The only thing that would need to be done on planets on a large scale would be farming.  And once again, open fields.  It doesn't matter if you blow up a few hundred kilograms of grain, so long the enemy does not secure it.  Scorched Earth FTW.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Upgradecap on July 17, 2013, 01:02:00 PM
Especially on planets like that of the Corvus II, a jungle, tanks and large vehicles would pretty much be rendered useless by the terrain. 

Flamethrowers and artillery shelling seems surprisingly effective in those conditions. :P


Also, what's wrong with space marines? Last time i checked, bulky armored outfits like that helped keep the bullets away from the flesh :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on July 17, 2013, 01:02:45 PM
Yes, but then there's gravity to contend with down on those planets. ;) You're not going to be just prancing around in that armor. ;D

Artillery?  MOAR HELLBORES.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on July 17, 2013, 01:27:21 PM
I suppose I should have expounded on that more. If a Valkyrie can carry 290 Space Marines, how many regular infantry or mechanized infantry can it carry (approx)?

Also, I would imagine that planetary defence installations would be a thing. Hellbore/Hypervelocity quad-barrelled abomination installations would probably be a thing considering the lack of a weight limit. ICBM Missile silos, what have you would be a consistent threat.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on July 17, 2013, 02:05:58 PM
come to think of it, I do remember alex saying something about planetary invasions being something beyond the means of the people in this sector, so the soldier might be right there. I have no source though so take with appropriate salt
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on September 07, 2013, 10:48:17 AM
I just noticed that this thread is not stickied. It took me an additional 1.17 minutes to find as a result. This is an unacceptable time penalty!!

Anyway, my question: A couple of sources (most notably the Eagle's codex entry) refer to the "League of Non-Aligned Worlds." David's faction icon art post (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2012/11/17/designing-faction-icons/) makes no mention of the League, but contains a logo and brief discussion of the "Coalition." Are these the same entity? What's their relationship to the current "known" players like the Hegemony, Tri-Tachyon and Exar?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 07, 2013, 06:51:53 PM
I just noticed that this thread is not stickied. It took me an additional 1.17 minutes to find as a result. This is an unacceptable time penalty!!

A self inflicted penalty, for this thread is in the list of useful threads (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5309.0), which is in turn stickied. I still want the mug.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: firstattak1 on September 08, 2013, 09:46:59 PM
I thought this league of planets was part of the independents. At least thinking of them game wise. Not being alinged would mean they arnt the hegmony, tri, ect. So the only option is independent. That's more of an assumption but it only makes since. Of coarse someone could prove me wrong.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: naufrago on September 08, 2013, 10:18:24 PM
I thought this league of planets was part of the independents. At least thinking of them game wise. Not being alinged would mean they arnt the hegmony, tri, ect. So the only option is independent. That's more of an assumption but it only makes since. Of coarse someone could prove me wrong.

The existence of a League is not mutually exclusive to the existence of a Coalition. Nothing says that there can't be more than 1 independent faction. And just because they're independent doesn't mean they're completely neutrally aligned towards all other factions.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on September 09, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
Indeed. One would imagine that there's a wide number of independent factions aligned or sympathetic with all numbers of the various major factions, from luddites to the hegemony. I imagine many of the larger corporate factions are in a state of cold war with Tri-Tachyon, and other mining conglomerates, or trade empires are in direct opposition to the luddites, or competing firms. The few factions with control ever major planets would obviously be in direct conflict with the hegemony, or in a state of extreme tension.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on September 20, 2013, 07:57:59 AM
So... uh... who exactly are the sindrian diktat?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on September 20, 2013, 11:00:46 AM
Judging by the looks of them, they're a tinpot sorta dictatorship, independent of the hegemony.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on September 20, 2013, 11:22:50 AM
Judging by the looks of them, they're a tinpot sorta dictatorship, independent of the hegemony.

Okay, good. They're projecting the right idea then. :D

(There's a lot more background yet to be rolled in. I think the plan is the layer on features that allow a bit of storytelling in one form or another gradually so that in time the full picture of what went on and what's going on will form -- and then we give the player a choice in what is going to happen next!)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 20, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
Judging by the looks of them, they're a tinpot sorta dictatorship, independent of the hegemony.

What looks? Do you mean name and fleet configuration or did I miss something?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on September 20, 2013, 12:04:53 PM
well, name (diktat? really?)
their size (HSDF dwarfs their garrison)
and the fact that they orbit a dead planet (I'd much rather live on Corvus II)

idk, it's just the vibe to them I guess

EDIT: also their lion's guard... Sounds like quite a militaristic society to give their elites that kind of name
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ArkAngel on September 20, 2013, 05:19:30 PM
its funny the name diktat reminds me of the daktaklakpak from Sc3 but the vibe they give off is rather like the miniature hegemony. Huh now that I think about it... there is the hegemony and the hegemonic crux. Kind of funny actually. But back to the lore side, why on earth would they still kind on there planet?? its like a wreck and really close to Askonia's star
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on September 20, 2013, 08:29:39 PM
Having (a) planet is better than having NO planet.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Cycerin on September 22, 2013, 07:43:40 AM
The game really could benefit from having some sort of rudimentary narrative soon.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Psygnosis on September 29, 2013, 05:24:28 AM
really need some faction stuff in the codex :)
Also the Sindrian must be better police since there are no established pirate bases, yet.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on September 29, 2013, 09:51:51 AM
I'm guessing the sindrians are some sort of 1984 level psychotic autarchy.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on September 30, 2013, 11:21:59 AM
Anyone got a good explanation for how the fighter mechanic works lore-wise?

I suppose this much I can assume from the lore of 0.51a: Fighters are build on board of carriers, probably on mini-autofactories, out of supplies. For this the autofactory needs a UAC with a blueprint, which also contains a production license and artificial limits for production. Fighters hulls can not be build instantaneous, but a stockpile of them is build and stored (probably very compactly folded), to be activated when needed. Only a limited amount of fighters can be activated at any given time, controlled by the UAC.
So far, so good, but a few questions are left unanswered:

- Why is the CR lowered for every subsequently activated fighter? Mh, maybe wear on the pilots, and/or wear on the autofactory and the people controlling the activation process so more mistakes are made.

- Why can't any fighters be activated for the duration of the battle if all active fighters of that wing have been destroyed? I can't think of any reason but a software function of the UAC, but what would be the purpose of such a function?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: firstattak1 on September 30, 2013, 04:39:06 PM
I have no idea if this is how fighters work but here it goes.

So why only the set number of fighters could be deployed is because that's all that the computers on board the ships can control, and if they are all destroyed it also destroys the AI on board making the fights still on the carrier practically have no brain to fly or be flown.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on September 30, 2013, 07:25:50 PM
Think of it like this, Gothars.

It takes a good chunk of a day to manufacture a fighter from supplies. Fights take place over the span of a few minutes. So, fighters get manufactured over time, and stored up on board carriers. They don't have enough time to manufacture fighters from existing supplies on board the fleet over the span of the battle.

As for the fighter CR degradation, think of it like this. You've just survived being blasted apart in your fighter, and have loaded up into a new one. Just how steady on your feet are you going to be after that? In addition, it could very well be that on average, to save on resources, only the initial 'wing' of fighters are kept in tip-top condition, and the others are gradually of lesser quality. That, in combination with crew stress and flight controllers could be suffering from combat fatigue over repeated launches.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on October 04, 2013, 12:53:36 AM
The real joke is that a fighter that comes back without a single scratch on the paint still costs as much supplies (via CR) to replace as one that got blown out of existence.

Actually, I think I'll make a thread in the Suggestions forum to have this changed.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Grug on October 04, 2013, 02:18:08 AM
I'll admit, that is a little absurd. You'd think that it'd be a quick calculation based on how damaged it was, and how much ammo was expended.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: NanoMatter on October 07, 2013, 02:17:01 PM
What opperating systems did they had? (Ex. Windows 1000000000000 Or iOS 1000000000000000000000)

What traditions that may have made it? (Chinese, American, or Russian) What was the traditions that came from Terran.

One wierd question, Toilets.....

What kind of food are in those suppies.... Some wierd squishy square of essential nutrients or variety of foods (Chinese, Indian, Cajun, or Italian.

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: dmaiski on October 08, 2013, 12:05:01 PM
Why can't any fighters be activated for the duration of the battle if all active fighters of that wing have been destroyed?

ready pilots:
-pilot dies in fielded fighter
-new pilot is a lazy sod/in cryo storage
--can not be fielded in a new hull untill defrosted


Why can't more fighters be launched even if they have been built?

simple reason:
-carrier has 1 launch bay per wing
--1 launch bay can launch/recover X numer of fighters per minute
-fighter have fule/cr limits and maintenance requirments
--can only remain operational for Y minuutes before they have to redock
-Y/X*2=fighter number that can be out of ship at any given moment
-- ie fighter can operat for 10 minutes, so [10 min/1 bay  * 2 [1launch/1recover]] and you have a max of 5 fighters that can be fielded at any one time


why planetery defence cannons can not be more powerfull then space borne weapons:
Spoiler
Quote
I don't agree with that, getting a giant cannon (or what have you) into space is a lot harder than just building it on the ground. planetary batteries should be more effective simply by weight class (although there is the problem of projectiles leaving atmos, but I'd like to think they're beyond that at this point.

Then we have a battle of spaceships vs (presumably) far heavier ground based batteries, which means it is more efficient to send troops planetside to take care of these assets, the planetary defenders deploy their own ground troops in response, etc. etc.
[close]
-simple physics in atmosphere (and not in space)
--sound travels at 340m/s
--heat is transfered to atmospher (at over 10k kelvin the air itself will go [boom])
--bad things happen when you use gamma ray/gravometric/reletevistic/nuclear/antimater/[mass driver] weaponry near densly populated areas
---most of the time said area becomes far less populated, in a verry short period of time
--recoil
---planets are not fond of moving, so big recoil breaks things(likt the gun)
----ships are fairly light, thus absorb recoil of massive weapons much beter (by moving backwards from the recoil)
-long story short
--big gun make people go splat when it shoots into space through the atmosphere
---missiles are still viable surface to space weapons, but they are much more viable in orbit/space

note: planetary bombardment is sorta like that too, except in reverse! because when killing a planet, setting its atmosphere on fire and shatering windows of building in a 1000km blast radious due to mass driver hits is a GOOD THING!


There are still no Jump Gates in the game
Spoiler
, just access points for local hyperspace. That enables travelling to neighboring stars, but doesn't connect the Sector to the rest of the galaxy. So the lore stays just like it is.
[close]
Spoiler
The BISO teleportation drives will use a teleportation beacon (the size of a star) to aim their long range teleports, but tecnicaly they are aliend from BEYOND, also at some ponit I WILL ADD CUTHULU TO THE GAME!
[close]

i just applied myself to some of the questions i saw here that had simple answers
occam's razor! the simplest solution is the most beliveable
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Bjørn_in_the_Sector on October 29, 2013, 02:45:29 AM
Hi there, I've been reading through the posts here, and was a bit curious about the possible role of (relatively) large mercenary bands with their own planet and shipyards. Although it would often be prudent for smaller bands of ships to simply join one of the existing factions, I'm sure there are some principled enough or stupid enough to try to head out on their own, and occasionally succeed. (Not because I'm too lazy to think of backstory that isn't mercenaries, of course! :P) The sector is so huge, after all, who knows what or who is out there!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Deathven on November 03, 2013, 06:38:28 PM
Hi there, I've been reading through the posts here, and was a bit curious about the possible role of (relatively) large mercenary bands with their own planet and shipyards. Although it would often be prudent for smaller bands of ships to simply join one of the existing factions, I'm sure there are some principled enough or stupid enough to try to head out on their own, and occasionally succeed. (Not because I'm too lazy to think of backstory that isn't mercenaries, of course! :P) The sector is so huge, after all, who knows what or who is out there!

Have to say, the potential that the game has for the Campaign and the shear size the whole sector will be...amazing! It will be cool once the lore starts  showing up in game. It will be awesome!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Foxer360 on November 03, 2013, 09:36:03 PM
Burst PD lasers could work off of this system called a Chirp Pulse Amplified laser, because of the similar behavior. Google it, it makes sense!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Wraithbourne on November 07, 2013, 04:01:41 PM
Will what brought about the collapse ever be revealed or touched upon?  Ingame its been over 200 years since the collapse so clearly the events causing it were almost indescribable in their severity, it can be assumed that the gates failing was the absolute least of the problems faced by those on the other side of them.  Massive alien invasion, a supernova producing a black hole or magnatar in the core of domain space, theres plenty of things to go wrong in space but the list of things that can bring a hyperadvanced galactic society to its knees is a pretty short one.  Were the gates disabled unintentionally or were they deactivated or destroyed with intent to safeguard those in our sector from whatever horrors were occuring beyond them?

On the subject of the gates, how is the more distant gate placed?  Is the sending gate produced and roughly "aimed" at a desirable sector of space and a construction fleet fired through it to construct the connecting gate?  What sort of distance would be covered by a gate connection?  I assume that the ingame representation of hyperspace is extremely short ranged, with the two systems represented ingame currently spaced to perhaps resemble something comparable to the distance between the sol and Alpha Centauri systems (about 4.4 lightyears).  Would gates involve distances of several hundred lightyears, thousands, tens of thousands?  If you can turn any planet into a paradise in reasonably short order there isnt that much need to travel extreme distances so I'm personally leaning towards shorter distances, but then if its only a few hundred lightyears then why is it not possible to send an expedition to investigate? Particularly if with sufficient skill the gravity well of any star or gas giant is a suitable exit point from hyperspace.

Finally by what means of hyperspace travel did the ships comprising the domain task force that formed the hegemony arrive? Its stated that they were running on full automation which suggests that they were making use of local hyperspace entrances and exits but they must surely of been making some use of the gate system for longer distance travel, or do the hegemony use low tech ships because the fleet was dispatched in the distant past and took hundreds of years to arrive in the sector, the ships comprising it the peak of sophistication when launched but being rendered obsolete in transit due to the timescale involved.

However if the fleet was in transit for centuries (or even a couple years really) then surely its ships would have been in a horrific state of disrepair, space is a harsh place, and without regular maintenance anything in it struggles to last for long.  Sure satelites like Voyager 1 have been out in space for decades but thats a few basic instruments inside a very well insulated shell.  A large fleet of warships would need frequent maintenance to retain functionality, certainly over the sort of timescales we're thinking about here.

The alternative I suppose is that the task force entered the sector via the gates when they were first activated and has been cruising the local/semi local area for the past (at most) few years, returning to the sector we see ingame at the time described in the lore with intent to return to more developed space via the gate to deliver the results on the cryogenic storage experiment.  The crew then being awoken by the shipboard AI's in response to the events occuring before them.

Also it states that the 200th legion were disgraced, what actions did they undertake to become disgraced?  The descriptions of the domain suggest an empire at peace, so its unlikely they fled in the face of an enemy, did they perhaps use excessive force against a colony attempting to branch out away from the domain and commit a masacre?

I think thats everything for now ^^

~Wraith
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on November 07, 2013, 04:31:15 PM
Will what brought about the collapse ever be revealed or touched upon?  Ingame its been over 200 years since the collapse so clearly the events causing it were almost indescribable in their severity, it can be assumed that the gates failing was the absolute least of the problems faced by those on the other side of them. 

Or it might have been a problem only with the gate. Maybe the core sectors of the domain are absolutely fine, just cut off from the newer colonies. It's at least pretty clear in the lore that the Sector's problems arise from its sudden isolation, not from any external factors.


However if the fleet was in transit for centuries (or even a couple years really) then surely its ships would have been in a horrific state of disrepair, space is a harsh place, and without regular maintenance anything in it struggles to last for long.  Sure satelites like Voyager 1 have been out in space for decades but thats a few basic instruments inside a very well insulated shell.  A large fleet of warships would need frequent maintenance to retain functionality, certainly over the sort of timescales we're thinking about here.

Interstellar space is (almost) completely empty. Once the ships have accelerated to near light speed, they can just drift for hundreds of years without any strain on either the systems or the hull. Relativistic effects would even remain that much less time has passed for everything inside the ships. Since the Onslaught design is considered ancient when they arrive, and the domain of man is about 1000 years old, I'd assume that's the way they traveled.
I'd even guess they Hegemony only upgraded their Onslaughts with shields and hyperspace travel drives after the arrival.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Wraithbourne on November 07, 2013, 04:47:29 PM
Will what brought about the collapse ever be revealed or touched upon?  Ingame its been over 200 years since the collapse so clearly the events causing it were almost indescribable in their severity, it can be assumed that the gates failing was the absolute least of the problems faced by those on the other side of them. 

Or it might have been a problem only with the gate. Maybe the core sectors of the domain are absolutely fine, just cut off from the newer colonies. It's at least pretty clear in the lore that the Sector's problems arise from its sudden isolation, not from any external factors.


Perhaps the whole thing is an experiment? The domain, having long since advanced past any major obstacle in the course of its development and advancement, were curious to see whether humanity at its core retained its often cited strengths, its adaptability and will to survive, and so cut the gate connection to produce a massive scale social experiment?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ciago92 on November 07, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
I'd even guess they Hegemony only upgraded their Onslaughts with shields and hyperspace travel drives after the arrival.

I can't speak to most of the lore but if you're going near light speed you better have shields because a dust speck is about as damaging as a nuke at that speed. If you saw Gravity recently, think that except tens of thousands (minimum) times worse
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on November 07, 2013, 10:53:04 PM
I'd even guess they Hegemony only upgraded their Onslaughts with shields and hyperspace travel drives after the arrival.

Quote
About three months after the Collapse, a Domain task force emerged from hyperspace in the sector.
from the state of affairs, so that's definitely not the case



Quote
What sort of distance would be covered by a gate connection?

let's see (data crunching below):

the following data is obtained with 1 point in navigation

the Onslaught (slowest ship in taskforce pollux) goes 7 burn in hyperspace at 30 fuel/day, at 25 fuel/ly, meaning she travels at 30/25 = 1.2 ly/day

the Atlas (also possibly the slowest ship in taskforce pollux) goes 7 burn in hyperspace at 12 fuel/day, at 10 fuel/ly, meaning she travels at 12/10 = 1.2 ly/day

some other data below, showing a slightly less efficient burn efficiency, but it's possible that max burn is not a linear function, but does drop in efficiency as it reaches higher ratings
Spoiler
the Tempest goes 14 burn in hyperspace at 1.5fuel/day, at 0.8 fuel/ly, meaning she travels at 1.5/0.8 = 1.875 ly/day (divide by 14 and we get 0.13 ly per burn per day)

the Shuttle goes 12 burn in hyperspace at 0.4fuel/day, at 0.25 fuel/ly, meaning she travels at 0.4/0.25 = 1.6 ly/day (divide that by 12 and we get 0.13 per burn per day)

the Ox goes 12 burn in hyperspace at 8.5fuel/day, at 5 fuel/ly, meaning she travels at 8.5/5 = 1.7 ly/day (divide that by 12 and we get 0.14 ly per burn per day)

the Enforcer goes 9 burn in hyperspace at 4.2fuel/day, at 3 fuel/ly, meaning she travels at 4.2/3 = 1.4 ly/day (divide that by 9 and we get 0.15 ly per burn per day)

the Hammerhead goes 9 burn in hyperspace at 2.8fuel/day, at 2 fuel/ly, meaning she travels at 2.8/2 = 1.4 ly/day (divide that by 9 and we get 0.15 ly per burn per day)
[close]

at this point I figured we have enough data and stopped collecting. Rounding errors and such aside, we can see that 7 burn means 1.2 ly/day

now, as far as we know, by year 2013 task force pollux has not left on its task (from Earth or elsewhere), which means it has at most 3126-206-2013 = 907 years at 1.2 ly/day to reach this sector (the reality is probably a lot less, but this is say if the fleet leaves tomorrow). The max possible distance covered by pollux would be 907*365.25*1.2 = 397538 ly.

Considering milky way goes about 120,000 ly across, that doesn't really say much. However, considering the nearest galaxy (andromeda) is way far away from that at 2538000 ly, at least we established that we're still in this galaxy
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: xenoargh on November 30, 2013, 03:45:23 PM
Questions:

1.  What is the name of the Tri-Tachyon Corporation's home System?
2.  Do the Pirates have any favorite / special places of note?
3.  Are the Diktat related to the Independents, or are they a unique splinter?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: HELMUT on December 01, 2013, 06:47:20 AM
I think the Diktat may be more related to the Hegemony than other factions, a bit like a vassal state.

When you engage with a Diktat fleet it said: "By authority of the High Hegemon Administrator, you are ordered to take hyperspace drives offline, disable weapons and surrender. Over.".

So apparently they are working under the Hegemony. Maybe an independent colony who prefer to pay tributes and serve rather than being annihilated.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on December 01, 2013, 11:10:01 AM
nah, that's just because the lines haven't been updated for them yet I believe
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on December 11, 2013, 09:43:37 AM
re. Tri-Tachyon home system:
No definitive answer but to join in on speculation, I can't imagine they'd have a strong connection to a 'home system'. Tri-Tachyon corporate strategy is quite unsentimental compared to, say, the Hegemony. There would perhaps be a place where they happen to have centralized more assets than anywhere else -- for purely Business Reasons, of course.

re. Pirate places:
I'd consider "Pirate" a catch-all category rather than a proper faction (as the in-game description suggests). They'd be found anywhere society breaks down and there's opportunity for violent criminals to exploit others for their own profit.

re. Diktat:
They're related to Hegemony, as the copy & pasting of the faction definition file suggests. There's a bunch of back story, the question is how to put it into the game without simply info-dumping.


Let'see, skipping stuff that's not getting answers like anything about the fall of the gate system/Domain, so you'll have to speculate for yourselves on that ...

... ah, important stuff: food! I've got a whole bunch I'd love to write on food in the world of Starsector but I need to get going to work. Sorry! (I'll admit, ever since the original Fallout manual had a recipe in the back it's been my secret goal to slip a real recipe into a game somehow. I hope you all enjoy "Sous Vide of Extruded Vat Fungus".)

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Cycerin on December 11, 2013, 12:46:10 PM
The head of Tri-Tachyon must be one cold bastard. Speaking of pirates being a catch-all, I really hope the leanings of independent fleets will be ambigous in the future. Ambushed when you answer a distress call, a "trader" fleet that turns out to mostly consist of Buffalo IIs and Mules with heavy weaponry, which scans and then heads after you, etc... and if you escape, you could alert Hegemony system authorities to their presence and maybe get a reward if they stop them at the jump point. ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Foxer360 on December 11, 2013, 02:21:40 PM
I pooped out some lore, it is really not that in-depth though. More like a concept, really.

Currently, the majority of humans consume the infamous nutri-drink, which is produced with processed nutri-drink plants. All that one needs to survive is 5 bottles of nutri-drink a day. If one is lucky, and has a few credits on hand, one can buy solid food such as an apple (slightly moldy) or even a military ration.

Speaking of which, military food is generally more appetizing than civilian food. The rations consist of a few dishes cooked from a large vat, or in a vacuum-packed autofactory manufactured MRE. The MRE can be cracked in half, which starts a chemical reaction that mysteriously cooks the food. The MRE's dishes are split into separate compartments, as not to spoil the taste. One is bitter, dark green vegetable slurry infused with minerals and preservatives. Another is a strange, yellow grain, not unlike rice, that sits in a goopy broth. It has a high fiber content, and is often the favorite of the crew, until it cleanses their bodies with merciless force. Deluxe packs will include fake mushroom meat within the grain ration, and can cost quite a bit more. The final ration is a sweet artificial dairy dish, which has the consistency of pudding. It also contains a raisin like fruit as a topping, in which is packed with vitamin E, C and A to supplement the lack sun, fresh fruit and eye health.

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: NanoMatter on January 10, 2014, 04:32:40 PM
What is flux? Plasma or something, because in attemping someting lore breaking
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hari Seldon on February 11, 2014, 12:46:44 PM
In Starsector, spaceships can have mini-factories ("mini-facs")
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3754.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3754.0)

What limits the ability of mini-facs?  Lack of Universal Access Chips?  Size?  Resources?

If you own a full-size factory somewhere could you churn out unlimited numbers of mini-facs if you have the UAC?  Can mini-facs make other mini-facs (maybe in several pieces like some self-replicating 3D printers do)?

It would be really, really cool if mini-facs (or maybe call this type "mini-refineries"?) on Industrial spaceships could produce supplies from raw materials if you buy enough UACs.  Food from comets, technology from asteroids, and Infernium from whatever.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on February 12, 2014, 04:34:10 PM
What limits the ability of mini-facs?  Lack of Universal Access Chips?  Size?  Resources?
Yes, I think those are the limiting factors, besides time of course. There are also likely digital restrictions on (some of) the UACs hat limit production in some way, as seen with fighter wings.

If you own a full-size factory somewhere could you churn out unlimited numbers of mini-facs if you have the UAC?  Can mini-facs make other mini-facs (maybe in several pieces like some self-replicating 3D printers do)?

We know there are mini-autofactories on board carriers, if not all ships. Since you can build carriers, you can obviously build their autofacs, too.


It would be really, really cool if mini-facs (or maybe call this type "mini-refineries"?) on Industrial spaceships could produce supplies from raw materials if you buy enough UACs.  Food from comets, technology from asteroids, and Infernium from whatever.

I strongly suspect that supplies are actually the raw material for autofactories on board ships. How else could you explain that even the last crate of supplies always provides what you need most at any given moment, be it food, armor plates or ammunition?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hari Seldon on February 13, 2014, 11:59:31 AM
I strongly suspect that supplies are actually the raw material for autofactories on board ships. How else could you explain that even the last crate of supplies always provides what you need most at any given moment, be it food, armor plates or ammunition?

That is an awesome synergy of lore and game design!

I'm still wishing for shipboard mini-refineries on Industrial ships that make supplies ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 26, 2014, 06:56:38 PM
It recently occurred to me that I should ask what exactly is Infernium? As far as I am aware it has never been described exactly what it is or where it comes from. The reason why I am concerned about this suddenly, is so that I am not conflicting with the canon lore with the description of this ship from my TIM mod.


"What is the pinnacle of pirate strength? An image that strikes fear into the heart of every captain? An entity that has been boiling, growing and terrorizing its way across countless worlds? The gargantuan mass that is the Infernal Machine is the very symbol of defiance against governance; the huge, lumbering mass which challenges even the Paragon.

Ironically the now unstoppable Machine was once a benevolent, maternal figure to the budding sector industry. It’s systems would strip entire gas giants of their Infernium, and then process the raw fuel into potent stardrive propellant. 100 cycles ago this behemoth fell into the hands of certain individual, whose purpose was less than benevolent... The ship was refitted to suit a grander purpose: Piracy. In the cycles leading up to the present, the Machine has “acquired” new captains, whether the previous owner was willing or not. Those many previous caretakers would modify, expand and customize the craft to their desire.

Captain Blackadder was a famous pirate lord, who used the Infernal Machine to destroy several Hegemony battleships. He personally salvaged the massive Thermal Pulse Cannons from his conquests, and added them to the Machine’s own arsenal. But there were many other pirate lords to come, each one adding their tribute to the Infernal Machine’s awe-inspiring hull, furthering the blight of pirate terrorism. The current whereabouts of the dreadnought are known to only a few, but it should suffice to say that anyone looking must surely have a death wish."
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on February 26, 2014, 11:08:39 PM
infernium is a substance found in trace amounts in essentially everything, I don't know exactly what it is though other than the fact that it powers all our infernium drives

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on February 27, 2014, 04:16:02 AM
From my understanding it is somewhat questionable if infernium will remain as part of the lore at all. It was supposed to be fuel and there were plans for an infernium injector, but both applications seem to have been scrapped or at least suspended. Was fuel originally called infernium ingame or am I misremembering that? Maybe it will have a comeback when ressource mining is introduced. Maybe David will introduce his own ideas about this.

In the original lore it is described as very rare element, present in all matter, usually in crystalline form. Rumored to be of extradimensional origin.

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on February 27, 2014, 12:39:28 PM
Alex and I have talked about it and I'm going to take a slightly different angle than what the existing material implies. I'll let that information make it's way to you guys through the proper context in-game. :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 27, 2014, 02:02:58 PM
Hmmm, yummy information :)

Thank you guys, guess I will leave that description alone for the time being...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hari Seldon on June 15, 2014, 06:45:40 PM
Is there any research and development in the Sector and if so is Tri-Tachyon doing it?  Is there any way to make new Universal Access Chips (even though they are probably far inferior to what the pre-Collapse UACs contain)?  Does this help slow the decline?

Also sorry for not putting the State of biotechnology in the Sector (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8067.0) question in this thread.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 15, 2014, 10:32:20 PM
Is there any research and development in the Sector and if so is Tri-Tachyon doing it?  Is there any way to make new Universal Access Chips (even though they are probably far inferior to what the pre-Collapse UACs contain)?  Does this help slow the decline?

Also sorry for not putting the State of biotechnology in the Sector (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8067.0) question in this thread.

I suppose it is obvious to say that there is no game mechanic of research or UACs in the game right now (so I haven't had to make any hard decisions about the narrative background for a bunch of stuff to do with them).

As for biotech, what we know so far is this: there are harvested organs, so clearly the technology exists to transplant them fairly easily, which implies medical technology which enables fairly cavalier modification of the human body (if one can afford it). Likewise, planets can be terraformed, though such a process is astoundingly expensive, even more so in the post-Collapse Sector. Terran life has been modified for commercial purposes as well as to populate terraformed planets, partially-terraformed planets, and adapted to planets with pre-existing non-terran ecosystems.

Tri-Tachyon is all about using cutting-edge technology now that Domain oversight is gone, so if there is research/industrial espionage/combat archaeology happening they will certainly be involved or trying to become involved. (Meanwhile, the Luddic Cults would be a great deal less enthusiastic about such things; indeed, quite enthusiastic about stopping people who wish to play God.)

And as may have been implied here and there, the Domain was very conservative when it came to unfettered research and extreme genetic engineering. So now that the Gates are gone and the Domain's power broken ... well, who knows what you'll find in the Sector? ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hari Seldon on June 16, 2014, 08:21:40 AM
And as may have been implied here and there, the Domain was very conservative when it came to unfettered research and extreme genetic engineering. So now that the Gates are gone and the Domain's power broken ... well, who knows what you'll find in the Sector? ;)
Cool :)

How are the Gates "gone"?  The ships were waiting at the Gates hoping they would open again and reconnect the Sector to the Domain so the Gates were off but in good condition.  The people in the Sector cannot reopen the Gates to outside of the Sector of course but why could they not reconnect the Gates to each other within the Sector because they can have technicians at both ends of the connections?  Did Task Force Pollux not have the Gate military codes to help with that?  When they could not set up their own Gate network inside the Sector were the Gates broken down for scrap?  Did reverse-engineering the Gates fail?  
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Debido on June 16, 2014, 08:27:49 AM
Quote
Terran life has been modified for commercial purposes as well as to populate terraformed planets, partially-terraformed planets, and adapted to planets with pre-existing non-terran ecosystems.

So wait, you're trying to say that the 'humans'  in SS are not necessarily 'human' genetically speaking? We're talking gills to breathe underwater, enhanced or additional bone structure to cope with higher gravity - even going so far as to genetically create a class of humanoids that have no volition whatsoever and are effectively slaves that will never rise up? Are we talking potentially talking about 'humans' in rather inverted commas that have more than 46 chromosomes?

I mean certainly in the game there are cybernetic implants for targetting etc, and I suppose that infers all manner of cybernetic man/machine interface enhancements are available.

I mean...I guess it doesn't matter at all for space combat...or much of the campaign, but yeah I suppose it is interesting.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 16, 2014, 08:42:16 AM
Quote
Terran life has been modified for commercial purposes as well as to populate terraformed planets, partially-terraformed planets, and adapted to planets with pre-existing non-terran ecosystems.

So wait, you're trying to say that the 'humans'  in SS are not necessarily 'human' genetically speaking? We're talking gills to breathe underwater, enhanced or additional bone structure to cope with higher gravity - even going so far as to genetically create a class of humanoids that have no volition whatsoever and are effectively slaves that will never rise up? Are we talking potentially talking about 'humans' in rather inverted commas that have more than 46 chromosomes?

My key word here is "Terran life" not necessarily "human beings". I'm talking more like modifying sugarcane to grow in a hot, high sulfur environment while building up certain hydrocarbons, less making humans into fish-people (which would have been banned in the Domain anyway).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on September 19, 2014, 05:52:56 AM
Hmm, I was going to ask about genetic modification of humans in the lore, when it turns out the last few posts in the thread were about them. Convenient!

Anyway, the particular application I really wanted to ask about was: Are there people in the Sector with blue hair (or green, or pink, or some other unnatural color)?  ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Debido on September 19, 2014, 02:56:05 PM
Yeah, they use hair dye ????
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on September 19, 2014, 07:03:41 PM
Yeah, they use hair dye ????
Yeah, you could do that, but... well. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_coloring#Adverse_effects_of_hair_coloring)

(well we could just assume that hair dyes in the future are guaranteed super effective and have no adverse effects)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on September 20, 2014, 05:56:22 PM
Anyway, the particular application I really wanted to ask about was: Are there people in the Sector with blue hair (or green, or pink, or some other unnatural color)?  ;D

I like the hair dye answer.

As for the setting itself, I would be of the opinion that cosmetic genetic manipulation on that level would be possible but access would be limited and expensive. It would be a sign that says "I have a lot of money to burn".
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Debido on September 20, 2014, 06:39:08 PM
I have a question David, relating to the general economic state of the sector. I was arguing that it's a trim dark post apocalyptic future where resources are fairly scarce, or the sector has very few resources in it, the ships are hundreds of years old as it is expensive and difficult to get the resources together to build them. Another persons opinion is that the sector is a resource rich proverbial bread basket .

Which do you think is the more accurate?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on September 20, 2014, 06:57:24 PM
I have a question David, relating to the general economic state of the sector. I was arguing that it's a trim dark post apocalyptic future where resources are fairly scarce, or the sector has very few resources in it, the ships are hundreds of years old as it is expensive and difficult to get the resources together to build them. Another persons opinion is that the sector is a resource rich proverbial bread basket .

Which do you think is the more accurate?

Probably more the latter before the collapse of the gate system; the Sector would have been rich to be a major target of Domain colonization/terraforming efforts and this goes somewhat toward explaining why it has held together as well as it has after the collapse. But then, yes, the gate collapse and fall of Domain authority would make things a complete mess, disrupting the galactic economy quite entirely, causing resources to be diverting toward basic survival, autarkical policies, and crude military armaments rather than infrastructure, commerce, or industrial development at anything like the previous level of sophistication.

Can you both be sorta right?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Debido on September 20, 2014, 07:12:54 PM
So you would describe the economic situation over all to be 'Struggling day to day and surviving, but overall the sector is dying a slow death'?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on September 23, 2014, 09:18:41 PM
How does the Hegemony view free enterprise? Is the economy completely nationalized? Do they permit or even encourage local businesses, but restrict or ban outside firms? Or are the megacorps (the ones that aren't Tri-Tachyon, at any rate) allowed to operate freely in Hegemony space?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on September 24, 2014, 09:19:52 AM
So you would describe the economic situation over all to be 'Struggling day to day and surviving, but overall the sector is dying a slow death'?

I would qualify and handwave left and right to avoid giving a canonical answer because I think the answer most truly lies in the game that the player experiences. (Man, I must be in an artistic mood or something to give a horrible vague reply like this. If you like, "sure" also serves as an answer.)

How does the Hegemony view free enterprise? Is the economy completely nationalized? Do they permit or even encourage local businesses, but restrict or ban outside firms? Or are the megacorps (the ones that aren't Tri-Tachyon, at any rate) allowed to operate freely in Hegemony space?

More details about this will appear in the next update! It's going to be fun!

Short answer: No, the economy is not nationalized. Domestic affairs may vary quite a bit between different worlds ruled by the Hegemony, though certain standards apply. The needs of the military do come first, and interstellar/interplanetary commerce and industrial policy is regulated, sometimes heavily depending on circumstances, to meet military goals. Interstellar megacorps are allowed to operate within Hegemony space provided they pay their duties and follow the rules.

Shorter answer: The Hegemony is a hegemony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on October 21, 2014, 08:14:29 PM
Thanks for all the answers, David!  :)

Okay, a couple of questions involving the new update:

1) Is it normal that the Sector's population appears to be so low? Even the "core" worlds we've seen have people numbering in the millions (10^6), and Jangala (Corvus II) is even a mere 10^5. Lots of present day Earth cities are bigger than that.

2) The Kanta's Den tooltip says that Kanta is "nearly two hundred years old." What kind of life extension technologies exist in the Sector, and how long can you last with them?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Foxer360 on October 21, 2014, 08:22:25 PM
Well, there are harvested organs in the sector. He could be a rambling fool locked up out of siight because nearly every organ in his body being replaced (minus his degrading brain), or maybe he is just dead. In both situations, I could see Kanta as a rallying point for all pirates in both body and mind.

Late night Inglush....
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on October 21, 2014, 09:38:43 PM
Thanks for all the answers, David!  :)

Okay, a couple of questions involving the new update:

1) Is it normal that the Sector's population appears to be so low? Even the "core" worlds we've seen have people numbering in the millions (10^6), and Jangala (Corvus II) is even a mere 10^5. Lots of present day Earth cities are bigger than that.

2) The Kanta's Den tooltip says that Kanta is "nearly two hundred years old." What kind of life extension technologies exist in the Sector, and how long can you last with them?

1. I see the Sector as colonized fairly recently (as in, well under a thousand years of habitation), so I didn't want to really load the population on. Plus, the surface of Jangala is not itself urbanized, just the orbiting station. Then again, what of the scale of colonization? I'm coming around to bumping many of these numbers up by a factor of two, but perhaps after a few more systems are introduced so it doesn't throw the economy too out of whack.

2. I would consider the limit of lifetime to be entirely a factor of wealth and avoiding any applicable technological regulations.

Well, there are harvested organs in the sector. He could be a rambling fool locked up out of siight because nearly every organ in his body being replaced (minus his degrading brain), or maybe he is just dead. In both situations, I could see Kanta as a rallying point for all pirates in both body and mind.

(She, btw.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on October 22, 2014, 04:07:19 AM
Ok question for you here: Why was Infernium removed and basically replaced by antimatter?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on October 22, 2014, 08:19:12 AM
Ok question for you here: Why was Infernium removed and basically replaced by antimatter?

They're used in essentially the same way as 'handwavium' fuel. What it comes down to is a matter of narrative tone; I think Infernium is a bit more Dune / Warhammer 40k while I want to aim for something a little more Alastair Reynolds.

I don't want to remove it entirely: the Luddic factions should  still refer to AM as "Infernium". (There just hasn't been an opportunity to demonstrate this in-game yet.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Thaago on October 22, 2014, 12:42:06 PM
Thanks for all the answers, David!  :)

Okay, a couple of questions involving the new update:

1) Is it normal that the Sector's population appears to be so low? Even the "core" worlds we've seen have people numbering in the millions (10^6), and Jangala (Corvus II) is even a mere 10^5. Lots of present day Earth cities are bigger than that.

2) The Kanta's Den tooltip says that Kanta is "nearly two hundred years old." What kind of life extension technologies exist in the Sector, and how long can you last with them?

1. I see the Sector as colonized fairly recently (as in, well under a thousand years of habitation), so I didn't want to really load the population on. Plus, the surface of Jangala is not itself urbanized, just the orbiting station. Then again, what of the scale of colonization? I'm coming around to bumping many of these numbers up by a factor of two, but perhaps after a few more systems are introduced so it doesn't throw the economy too out of whack.

...

I think it depends on the resource supply situation. Populations can explode extremely quickly given the chance. I can see the population of the Luddic planets being in the hundreds of millions or low billions (if their faith is geared towards having large families, as many are). Granted the GDP output of each person would be astonishingly low compared to the rest of the planets, but the food potential is there. For Jengala, it all depends on what the Hegemony thinks is sustainable and how much resources they put into those orbital burns and farming.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on October 22, 2014, 02:09:42 PM
I see the Sector as colonized fairly recently (as in, well under a thousand years of habitation), so I didn't want to really load the population on. Plus, the surface of Jangala is not itself urbanized, just the orbiting station. Then again, what of the scale of colonization? I'm coming around to bumping many of these numbers up by a factor of two, but perhaps after a few more systems are introduced so it doesn't throw the economy too out of whack.

Also worth asking, in the context of population numbers, what the autofactory technology changes in the way of minimum viable populations for colonization. It's not quite 'everything comes out of the magic machine', but it's got to change a lot of fundamental assumptions about logistics.

People might also have lots of children simply because they can, on 'empty' worlds with relatively benign biospheres where there's not much competition for resources yet (or wasn't before the Fall). Lack of selection against and all that.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ahrenjb on October 24, 2014, 10:44:33 AM
In the mouse-over text for Skathi, the Tri-Tachyon world in the Valhalla system, it states that the hegemony granted Tri-Tach a license for development. I was under the impression that tri-tach and Hegemony were in an active state of hostilities towards eachother, and assumed that would preclude legal cooperation on things like that. Am I wrong, or is the idea of Tri-Tach being changed?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on October 24, 2014, 11:02:22 AM
In the mouse-over text for Skathi, the Tri-Tachyon world in the Valhalla system, it states that the hegemony granted Tri-Tach a license for development. I was under the impression that tri-tach and Hegemony were in an active state of hostilities towards eachother, and assumed that would preclude legal cooperation on things like that. Am I wrong, or is the idea of Tri-Tach being changed?

Yes. I'd like to move Tri-Tach's relationship with the Hegemony to be less "shooting war" and more wary, with both sides finding the other useful but with goals at odds leading to various unfortunate 'incidents' that both sides cover up/gloss over afterward. The Hegemony should then get a worthy opponent to have wars with (or two? more? who knows!).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ahrenjb on October 24, 2014, 12:50:26 PM
In the mouse-over text for Skathi, the Tri-Tachyon world in the Valhalla system, it states that the hegemony granted Tri-Tach a license for development. I was under the impression that tri-tach and Hegemony were in an active state of hostilities towards eachother, and assumed that would preclude legal cooperation on things like that. Am I wrong, or is the idea of Tri-Tach being changed?

Yes. I'd like to move Tri-Tach's relationship with the Hegemony to be less "shooting war" and more wary, with both sides finding the other useful but with goals at odds leading to various unfortunate 'incidents' that both sides cover up/gloss over afterward. The Hegemony should then get a worthy opponent to have wars with (or two? more? who knows!).

Makes sense. I was never a huge fan of the whole "corporatacracy" thing in general, and the Hegemony is cast as a proper massive, lumbering governmental organization deeply rutted in tradition and bureaucracy. They deserve an enemy on the same level. I feel that in the current universe, the Hegemony really is THE superpower, with all others being smaller players. Another superpower of sorts would fit in well, but that's your department!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on October 24, 2014, 02:09:48 PM
There's nothing really stopping Tri-Tachyon from being "that other superpower". Other than David, of course. :P

From the current backstory, it's pretty clear that corporations had enormous influence in the Domain. Such that it's not unreasonable to see a fraction of one emerge as a major power in the Sector. I could easily see a Cold War going on between the Tri-Tach and the Hegemony. Neither of them would be inclined to get into a real war, since that would cost resources they don't really have, but proxy wars and bullying the many smaller factions in the Sector is fair game.

The two of them falling into a Sector-wide war could be a major event that could randomly happen in the campaign, if forces happen to align to cause such a thing. I would prefer that the player not be able to instigate a full Sector War, at least not without lots of effort and subterfuge.

I kind of feel a Sector War would really be the end of the Sector. So much would be lost that the whole Sector, excluding a few terraformed worlds (that also weren't destroyed in said war), would essentially be depopulated by starvation. Unless, that is, a third faction is instigating the war, and succeeds in its bid to claim power and emerge as the only superpower in the sector before too much is destroyed. *Cough* the player *cough*. Then the whole sector is your playground to form a new order.

Of course, anything like that will only come into existence in the far future of this game's development. And I would hope there would be at least several other end-game goals besides bringing one faction to dominance.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on October 24, 2014, 06:38:31 PM
In the mouse-over text for Skathi, the Tri-Tachyon world in the Valhalla system, it states that the hegemony granted Tri-Tach a license for development. I was under the impression that tri-tach and Hegemony were in an active state of hostilities towards eachother, and assumed that would preclude legal cooperation on things like that. Am I wrong, or is the idea of Tri-Tach being changed?

Yes. I'd like to move Tri-Tach's relationship with the Hegemony to be less "shooting war" and more wary, with both sides finding the other useful but with goals at odds leading to various unfortunate 'incidents' that both sides cover up/gloss over afterward. The Hegemony should then get a worthy opponent to have wars with (or two? more? who knows!).
Well, both factions did try to take/destroy the other's homeworld/corporate HQ at least once... But falling back to a cold war state afterwards makes sense.

For Skathi, maybe the license was awarded before relations between the two factions went down the toilet and the Hegemony is unwilling or unable to commit the firepower to enforce the revocation of this particular deal.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on October 25, 2014, 08:23:19 AM
Okay, this one thing is bothering me: On the decivilized world of Maxios... who's collecting the tariffs?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Tartiflette on October 25, 2014, 08:28:41 AM
Tri Tachion executives wet dreams about the sector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Kipcha on October 26, 2014, 02:15:51 AM
Okay, this one thing is bothering me: On the decivilized world of Maxios... who's collecting the tariffs?

Docking "authority"

To me Maxios seemed like an example of an anarchistic 'government' where the ownership of an item is how hard you can hold on to it. (which would see megacorporations rise to power very easy, should they actually have an interested in a barren world with little to no economic import)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Lucian Greymark on October 27, 2014, 02:13:00 PM
I'm sure this has probably been asked already and I've missed it. But are there any good reasons at the moment why the pirates have so few stations/planets. I think they have only got bases in 3? different systems. Which seems fairly low considering the nature of pirates. The other thing is that pirate numbers seem to be desperately low until someone with a bounty comes around. Do these have to do with the lore or is it more of a game play thing?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: DeltaV_11.2 on October 27, 2014, 08:19:07 PM
Pirates should be pretty weak, given they represent a "non-faction" faction. Think of how hard it is for you to assemble a large fleet. Now imagine that everyone already hates you. Pirates don't have the sort of resources to establish or take major worlds and facilities. Even if they did exist, they're divided amongst many separate individuals, which limits how much influence they wield.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Lucian Greymark on October 29, 2014, 09:40:00 AM
I'm not even talking about large fleets though, even on Corvus, that has two pirate planets and a star base, there are barely any fleets at all most of the time once the hegemony get their toes stuck in. I'd still expect their to be lots of little smugglers running around.

It's worth mentioning that I'm not the one killing them, I'm at the point where I'm jumping from system to system tracking down high yield bounties.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Zaphide on October 30, 2014, 09:59:54 PM
Ok question for you here: Why was Infernium removed and basically replaced by antimatter?

They're used in essentially the same way as 'handwavium' fuel. What it comes down to is a matter of narrative tone; I think Infernium is a bit more Dune / Warhammer 40k while I want to aim for something a little more Alastair Reynolds.

I don't want to remove it entirely: the Luddic factions should  still refer to AM as "Infernium". (There just hasn't been an opportunity to demonstrate this in-game yet.)

Sorry but only just read this: '... a little more Alastair Reynolds' yeah really got this vibe from the latest patch, perhaps minus some of the more advanced/out-there tech stuff from the Revelation Space series :)

StarSector is just waiting for a Chasm City :D

Also reminded me of the world building in the 'Polity' or 'Line' (can't remember which it is, Agent Carmac perhaps) series by Neal Asher.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hari Seldon on November 05, 2014, 09:40:03 PM
I noticed that the Sindrian Diktat system that one of their planets' text blurb says that it is one of the few places that makes antimatter fuel from energies from solar collectors fed into massive furnaces / particle accelerators / whatever.  That's pretty cool so I thought about it.

The only way in real life of making lots of antimatter that I know of is Hawking radiation (fiercely energetic particles, antiparticles, and gamma rays) (http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/hawk.html).

Even better, I have a Hawking Radiation calculator (http://xaonon.dyndns.org/hawking/) you can play with.  Change any of the values in the text boxes and hit enter to recalculate.
"Black holes do produce radiation, with an intensity inversely proportional to the square of their mass. Since most black holes are thought to form from collapsed stars and are very massive, they give off very little radiation. However, a smaller hole (on the order of only a few billion tons) would radiate a great deal more, making it an excellent power source for an advanced civilization."

This is rather dangerous though, because if you starve the black hole of matter to eat, then it will get smaller and smaller and evaporate faster and faster until it explodes.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on February 14, 2015, 06:36:17 AM
An interesting entry found in reports.csv

Quote
summary: Diktat security forces have captured terrorist leaders attempting to flee Sindria. Officials have stated that after they are intergated by Diktat Intelligence there will be a swift trial and public execution.
[...]
implementation notes: Like a Cardassian novel, everyone arrested in Sindria is guilty - the only question remains: of what?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on February 14, 2015, 06:56:36 AM
An interesting entry found in reports.csv

Quote
summary: Diktat security forces have captured terrorist leaders attempting to flee Sindria. Officials have stated that after they are intergated by Diktat Intelligence there will be a swift trial and public execution.
[...]
implementation notes: Like a Cardassian novel, everyone arrested in Sindria is guilty - the only question remains: of what?
Time to argue it down to a non-moving violation.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: xenoargh on February 21, 2015, 10:33:59 PM
intergated  ::)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: EI on February 21, 2015, 10:43:02 PM
  • How big is the sector? Are there hundred of worlds? Or is more like dozens?

About 6 months to a year to traverse using hyperdrive. Aiming for ~1k star systems, but that could change appreciably in either direction.

2 stars, 998 to go~ :3
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Alex on February 21, 2015, 11:17:15 PM
Yeah I would revise that down quite a bit :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: EI on March 03, 2015, 09:35:08 PM
>w<

I want more stars and the possibility to conquer them in a way like Mount & Blade. )o)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ahne on June 22, 2015, 06:53:10 AM
I wonder about the used in-starsystem travel drive. If we use the value of 225.000km/h for 4xburn speed in starsystem travel and then watch the massive crazy "normal" decceleration from this "unknown" travel method inside the battlefield from example 225.000km/h to 300km/h (an 30 max speed battleship) in 4 sec i really wonder what kind of system is used. If we consider that the battlefield engine system is another one because they can't even deccelerate from 30 max speed to 0 in 4 sec (just an example). So my question is which travel drive system is used for in-starsystem travel? The hyperspace travel uses FTL.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on June 23, 2015, 08:11:47 AM
1. In-system navigation uses Burn Drive, and low tech ships can use a primary part of the drive in combat - which explains why they only use their normal engine in combat. They can't raise the shield while Burn Driving.

2. I'm not sure if 1su = 1km.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ahne on June 24, 2015, 07:23:22 PM
Quote
2. I'm not sure if 1su = 1km.
not sure myself

Quote
1. In-system navigation uses Burn Drive, and low tech ships can use a primary part of the drive in combat - which explains why they only use their normal engine in combat. They can't raise the shield while Burn Driving.

i know that it's called "burn drive" but that doesn't answered any of my lore related questions, i want to know more about the actual technical lore of that travel system and how it "works", if we have a lore base it would be easier to adapt the knowledge and develop modified describtions how other drive systems from modded facftions work, if it's needed to describe to that detailed level
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on June 26, 2015, 09:34:33 AM
Well... I don't really see any texts describing it. You'll have to wait Alex.

Tho I(and anyone else) can be quite sure it is not a wormhole drive or Alcuibierre drive.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on June 26, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
If I had to guess, I would say that the in-system and in-combat drives are the same system, with either more of the drive system being active or the drive system being operated at a higher power level (or both) for in-system travel than in-combat travel being what distinguishes in-system from in-combat propulsion. The exhaust plumes are the same (or very similar) colors for both in-system and in-combat propulsion and are emitted from mostly the same locations on the ship. Neither the in-system nor the in-combat propulsion systems appear to follow reaction-thrust rules particularly well, and at any rate ships do not appear to be expelling mass at any significant rate, at least under the current game mechanics.

I would suggest that Starsector's in-system and in-combat propulsion system is more along the lines of something which accelerates a ship to a given speed when the drive is provided with a certain amount of power; the lower in-combat speeds can be justified by the accelerations required for combat maneuvers, a need to reduce drive heat generation to allow the ship's cooling systems to keep up with weapon and shield heat generation and perhaps reduce the ship's heat signature to allow ECM to be more effective, a need to free up power for the weapons and shields, or some combination thereof.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dratai on July 14, 2015, 10:11:07 AM
Since I'm lazy and not up for trawling all 17 pages here, but since it's also a good thread for it I have one/two questions.
First up I understand implants/partial cybernetic enhancement seems to be a thing but would like confirmation.
If yes: Would there be room for genetic modification in certain circles (meaning if there was some of this in the pre-collapse, someone lucky may have managed to keep some of the tools for it)?
I kind of want to know in case I write some of my transhumanist garbage fanfiction for this setting.
Like not nesseccarily that they're still modifying people but that there'd be a few projects here and there left over and available as.. loot.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on July 14, 2015, 10:54:54 AM
First up I understand implants/partial cybernetic enhancement seems to be a thing but would like confirmation.
If yes: Would there be room for genetic modification in certain circles (meaning if there was some of this in the pre-collapse, someone lucky may have managed to keep some of the tools for it)?
I kind of want to know in case I write some of my transhumanist garbage fanfiction for this setting.
Like not nesseccarily that they're still modifying people but that there'd be a few projects here and there left over and available as.. loot.

1. Yes, implants and cybernetic enhancement exist in the Starsector setting.
2. Yes, genetic modification is a thing.
3. Yes, more exotic forms of both are probably kicking around somewhere and powerful factions (Luddic Path, Church of Galactic Redemption) would like them not to exist, or would like them to be controlled by a proper authority (Hegemony), or would be delighted to provide use of these exclusively patented technologies to paying customers (TriTachyon).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Dratai on July 14, 2015, 11:08:54 AM
Yeah alright, just making sure so we don't get narrative conflicts. Thank you!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on July 14, 2015, 11:12:51 AM
David is getting old! :o

(http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2870;type=avatar)

Spoiler
::)
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on July 14, 2015, 11:38:32 AM
David is getting old! :o

(http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2870;type=avatar)

Spoiler
::)
[close]

:D Naw, I just keep it updated to match my current hair colour. Which reminds me, I need to update it - there.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Abradolf Lincler on July 14, 2015, 01:24:08 PM
 I have a question, how large are ships generally, like a Wolf stern to bow compared to a fighter or Onslaught. Are battleships here more akin to naval ships that we have? or bigger/smaller?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on July 14, 2015, 01:45:59 PM
I have a question, how large are ships generally, like a Wolf stern to bow compared to a fighter or Onslaught. Are battleships here more akin to naval ships that we have? or bigger/smaller?

Sprite vs. sprite comparison is not necessarily intended to be at scale. Nor is it not. The sprites were designed to convey the feeling of ship size appropriate to each ship and to fit the game's action onto one's screen with a ship and its target more-or-less visible at the same time, for the sake of player experience.

That said, the ship classes are loosely based on WW2-era naval ships, so that's where I'd start to get an idea for relative scale.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on October 14, 2015, 02:28:40 AM
Anyone have an idea for what MIRV stands for in Starsector? In the real world, it stands for Multiple Independently-targetable Reentry Vehicle, but that doesn't really make sense for the Hurricane, which is used by spaceships against spaceships while all are in space. Is the Hurricane really an ICBM adapted for use by and against ships, or perhaps an orbital bombardment weapon adapted for ship-to-ship use (though reentry is still kind of strange, if so, and 'independently targetable' seems to me a bit of a stretch since all the submunitions have the same target)?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Tartiflette on October 14, 2015, 02:47:25 AM
Multiple Independent Rocket-powered Vehicules?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Cycerin on October 14, 2015, 03:23:13 AM
Majorly Irritating Rocket, Vhygodwhy
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on October 14, 2015, 06:43:21 AM
Might just be a legacy term, like "clip" for "magazine", "Bazooka" for "rocket launcher" or "shrapnel" for "fragmentation (shards)".
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on November 20, 2015, 04:58:32 AM
So the Tri-Tachyon lost both AI Wars (and the second one quite badly too it seems)?

Reaction 1: :(
Reaction 2: I'm impressed they're still not-dead enough to be considered a major faction.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on November 20, 2015, 05:13:16 AM
So, has the First and Second AI Wars been mentioned in this thread yet?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: HELMUT on November 20, 2015, 06:38:02 AM
I'm very happy with all the new lore, it finally give a reason for the Tri-tachyons to be at war with the Hegemony. Apparently they lost the two AI wars but managed to save enough ships to remain in power and negotiate advantageously the treaty of Crom Cruach. They also kept their planet killer-device thanks to "concessions made during the peace arrangement" and seems to be still freely infringing the Domain AI ban.

Even thought they lost, the wounded Hegemony apparently can't enforce much on them, probably have to deal with the other factions. Still, both Hegemony and Tri-tach seems to be in a very bad shape after all of this.

The war seems to be officially finished, but i wonder why are they still in conflict? Unless those are just some unofficial skirmishes between the two factions? The Hegemony won, but it probably won't stop the Tri-tach from trying to screw them again.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on November 20, 2015, 08:58:41 AM
I wonder if I can find that planet cracker hidden somewhere.  ::)

What?  I promise I won't do anything!  Well, nothing too bad anyway.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on November 20, 2015, 03:42:24 PM
I wonder if I can find that planet cracker hidden somewhere.  ::)

What?  I promise I won't do anything!  Well, nothing too bad anyway.
Does 'not too bad' thing include......nevermind.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: TheBawkHawk on November 23, 2015, 10:12:51 AM
I wonder if I can find that planet cracker hidden somewhere.  ::)

What?  I promise I won't do anything!  Well, nothing too bad anyway.
There's one Tri-Tachyon planet that has armories and such deep within mine shafts or whatever it is, and that the deepest ones had some arcane power and whatnot. Perhaps it's hiding in there?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on November 24, 2015, 10:25:46 AM
Alex, I have a burning question... What happened to earth and the gates? And what are the aliens about? Is earth still working? Is the sector the only place that humans colonised? Would be cool to be able to use the gates in the futur to travel to other sectors which are still desperatly trying to survive! Also, how could they lose the knowledge about how to terraform a planet? Its seems simpler to terraform a planet as far as knowledge as to build a ship with working hyperdrives... and is there any place where living is actualy normal and not desperate and poor?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: The Soldier on November 24, 2015, 10:40:03 AM
@lilstrip
The sector you're currently in is only the local group of stars - humanity colonized a vast part of space under the Domain of Man.  When the gates shut, however, this sector was cut off from the rest of the Domain of Man.  We don't know how the rest of humanity is fairing.  As a result, Earth is really, REALLY far away.

It's not that knowledge was lost on many things - sure, it was, but the sector simply lacks the industrial output to do any of the massive projects that the Domain of Man had undertaken, like terraforming a planet.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on November 24, 2015, 01:54:44 PM
So basicly, humanity's survival doesn't need those sectors to survive since earth is still working?
I mean, it would be cool if either alex could add the fact you could build and level up your own station, and for exemple add modules but they would cost like 500000 credits at the begining and could end up costing 3000000 credits. Basicly, you could build that station, you would have to bring people, ressources, and then choose a place to set up and you could modify that station and since you would be the owner it would give you like 10000 credits every months at the begining, but if you turn that station into a massive trading hub it could end up giving you a crap load more. This would actualy fix the fact that there will be so many planets barren and such on the map since they have no porpuse, but adding this as like the next big update could basicly give them a porpuse and would add so much to replayability! It would also be really easy to implement and wouldn't break any mods since it would add a bunch of features and not change old ones!

^
 \__ Alex, if you read this, can you PLEASE add this! it would be so cool!

Also one last thing. I built this massive city in simcity 5 and would like to know if there are cities in starsector with such road network :) have aspergers and really like complex interchange/highway networks in really cramped space! Would be cool if david could make a illustration based off of it since it looks really close to city_from_above! I really like that one, wished I could live in a city that looked like this XD Anyway, heres the link (skip the loading screen lol, wasn't planning on showing this to anyone so didn't bother editing! just found out I could cut the vid via youtube :) thanks youtube!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ByQ9yvIFQ
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on November 24, 2015, 03:43:48 PM
I believe 've seen some illustrations about cities in the game folder... The same folder has the famous 'Hound in a hangar' picture.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on November 24, 2015, 03:59:06 PM
We don't know the status of the earth. It's not unlikely that the gate network failure happened on their side though, and it might have been caused by some catastrophe. So the Sector might indeed be the last hope for humanity's survival.


Outpost are a planned feature BTW, and probably you will install them on planets. Don't expect that to approach the complexity of sim city, though ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on November 24, 2015, 04:18:48 PM
No of course XD But it would be really cool to be able to build your own modular station which would require alot of time to build
I think that this would really make the game different because that would mean that maybe there could be a partial multiplayer where basicly the game has that aprox 1K map and basicly people could come in and play in singleplayer but their stations could be seen as maybe functional or wrecks to other players :) that would be really cool!

I do know the thing where you guys don't plan on adding multiplayer but this could be a inexpensive way of adding it.
also, would be cool to have an in-game map editor so it would be really easy to make those maps and basicly make the game alot more moddable because right now, its kindof a pain to get the map you want via files :/ also are the current systems the only ones from now on in the game? I feel like its way too small and it would be really cool to have MUCH larger maps! its really immersive, and this game's lore is just so good... do you realise this game will get on scales as big as lets say, cities skylines when it comes to popularity? I mean, you have all the elements for this game to succeed! I mean, this game was the best 10$/quality AND quantity I know of! and there is only what, 3-5 people working on this!?! XD you guys are awesome! would really like to help with the lore :) Might be 16, but so far, this universe... its like everything I would ever want to live in! Would be really great and would be willing to write loads of lore for you guys. I have so many ideas, memories, and facts that I could use to make some really fun and long texts for people to read. I mean, just that half crashed onslaught and other bits of lore like that... I mean, I am really suprised you guys didn't expand on that idea! Thing is, I really like to write about stuff if i like it, and could almost write a book so much I would write about this game  :P  Anyway, hope you say yes because that would finaly get me in touch with such a fantastic universe which I would freaking dream about doing, and would be ready to do it for free as well :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on November 25, 2015, 06:14:43 PM
@lilstrip - Oh boy, wall of text! I'll try to address points in order.

1. Not doing multiplayer! More on this in the 'frequently made suggestions' area (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5127.0).

2. Map editor: It really comes down to what is 'good enough' for internal development, and putting in positions by hand is good enough considering that everyone working on the game is used to inputting data in that form. (Now I bet an enterprising modder could make a utility to make this easier...)

3. There will be many more systems added to the game, don't worry.

4. (I agree that Cities: Skylines is an awesome game and they deserve all the success they've earned from that game!)

5. Glad you enjoy the game and the lore! I can't say that the Starsector universe is one I'd want to live in, but if you want to read more stuff with a similar flavour, check out the book series I cited as an influence in this blog post (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2015/03/12/a-starsector-reading-list/). Seriously, go read all of those books. Those are what have contributed a ton to how I write for Starsector and if you enjoy Starsector you'll enjoy them.

6: If you want to add to the lore, well, that's what mods are for! Or fan fiction! Or whatever you can think of! We're totally cool with all of that. (It'd be unethical, btw, for us to accept work for free. And a lot more of a pain than one would expect -- actually paying people money is like 1/3rd the difficulty of collaboration. Won't go on an extended ramble here.)

So in short, it's awesome that you're enthusiastic about Starsector! I kinda see it as a potential jumping off place to explore a lot of great media, both in finding cool stuff to read/experience and in creating cool stuff of your own.

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Baqar79 on November 26, 2015, 01:38:21 AM
Hi David, I've just gone through reading all of the lore through this post, in the hopes that I wouldn't ask an already answered question (so sorry about this if you have).

The main question I had was about the reliance on these autofactories.  At what level of technology would the sector be at if all of a sudden these factories were to disappear?  Would the current inhabitants of the sector be able to build (an albeit shoddy) space worthy vehicles?

I do read sci-fi on occasion; and found myself really enjoying Peter F Hamilton's Commonwealth Universe (Pandora's Star, Judas Unchained and the Void trilogy).  I'm tempted to give Alastair Reynolds a read, though i'm a little wary of anything a bit too dark (eg Game of Thrones in space).  How would you rate the universe:

1-) Reasonable good shape, things are looking up
2-) Problems in the universe still abound, but the characters succeeded at least in their own endeavours
3-) There is hope, but it isn't certain that things are going to improve
4-) An end on a sad note, but at least they tried
5-) A lot of good people died in the making of this book
6-) Rather bad people/aliens won, but they made it look pretty cool and you can respect them
7-) *** won this time round; yes everyone decent died; but it could of been worse.
8-) 'We like eating babies, they are yummy!'

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on November 26, 2015, 09:43:01 AM
Hi David, I've just gone through reading all of the lore through this post, in the hopes that I wouldn't ask an already answered question (so sorry about this if you have).

Np, I love rambling about this stuff. (Though I will try to avoid infodumping too much outside of the game itself. There's always a balance to be struck & etc.)

Quote from: Baqar79
The main question I had was about the reliance on these autofactories.  At what level of technology would the sector be at if all of a sudden these factories were to disappear?  Would the current inhabitants of the sector be able to build (an albeit shoddy) space worthy vehicles?

The most advanced industrial planets could produce space vehicles. Probably nothing that could seriously stand up in combat to Domain-era ships, and probably not FTL drives. Maybe. They'd probably also have to devote a significant portion of their industrial and scientific  base toward the project in the face of an almost surely unruly population, possibility of starvation, degrading terraforming systems that must be maintained to survive, threats from neighbours and internal factions, and all sorts of problems.

For a rough analog: the United States has had the technology to build a base on the moon and send people to Mars for quite some time. It'd be super difficult, expensive, and dangerous, but it's all very possible. Why hasn't it been done? -- Lots of reasons! And anyway there are (understandably) far more pressing matters given higher priority by the political bodies that run the US.

Basically, it's not enough to just have the theories and (some of) the technology required to rebuild the empire of the Domain. It requires the political will, the economic capacity, and stability enough to invest in a huge project that will not see returns for a long, long time.

Quote from: Baqar79
I do read sci-fi on occasion; and found myself really enjoying Peter F Hamilton's Commonwealth Universe (Pandora's Star, Judas Unchained and the Void trilogy).  I'm tempted to give Alastair Reynolds a read, though i'm a little wary of anything a bit too dark (eg Game of Thrones in space).  How would you rate the universe:

Haha. Let's see, how about ... somewhere between 3 and 5? Someone who likes dark stories less would probably rate them higher on the scale. Let me explain.

Ultimately, the tone is not hopeless, but Reynolds stories are not warm and fuzzy. At all.

Many of the characters are deeply cynical and will betray one another. Sometimes the most likeable character in the story is at best "cold, but not awful". Characterization in the first book or so is pretty rough and none of the characters are easily likeable, though there's at least a viewpoint to root for; you can tell it's his first novel.

I would recommend starting at "Chasm City" then seeing how you feel about the setting. It is dark though; a good bit of violence and killing and a handful of rather sociopathic characters who do some awful things. Humanity doesn't come off well in the setting either - civil war, exploitation, huge and bloody divide between rich and poor, etc. Which I suppose could describe most of Reynolds stories, but I think this one pulls together the inner character and outer adventure narrative threads rather neatly.

(As a side note, I've not read any of Hamilton's work! It's on my list to check out. Just need to finish Blindsight and the Ancillary Justice trilogy first ... )
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on November 26, 2015, 10:29:24 AM
Uhhhh, Blindsight. As a neuroscientist(-to-be), I just love that book. Despite many flaws and needless extras. But well, that book would be between 6 and 8 on the scale...

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on November 26, 2015, 11:29:15 AM
btw does any of you guya have asperger?

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on November 26, 2015, 11:53:23 AM
btw does any of you guya have asperger?

Not the place to talk about it in this thread; other talk unrelated to Starsector / lore ramblings should go in Other > Discussions (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Baqar79 on November 26, 2015, 12:22:17 PM
Thanks for answering, I was curious as to whether humans might not even be at earth's current level of technology if they had their autofactories taken away from them.  Good to know they have some level of scientific engineering knowledge beyond being able to push a button on the autofactory. 

I appreciate the feedback on the books series as well, I just checked the local library (being broke and all), but unfortunately both copies of Chasm are out; probably bodes well for the series, so i'll give this a go when I can.

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on November 27, 2015, 04:48:28 PM
I was somewhat amused to find that while the Luddic Path are more radical than the mainstream Church in pretty much every other way, they don't seem to care about the GM lobsters at all.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: StarSchulz on November 27, 2015, 11:29:38 PM
So, i have got to ask. In the 0.7 update i noticed many references to the "Askonia Crisis". It seems to be the reason many planets in the system have large refugee populations. Is there any information you can share on this? or have i missed something else already hidden around?  ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on November 28, 2015, 02:47:27 AM
I was somewhat amused to find that while the Luddic Path are more radical than the mainstream Church in pretty much every other way, they don't seem to care about the GM lobsters at all.

Mh, how did you notice that?


So, i have got to ask. In the 0.7 update i noticed many references to the "Askonia Crisis". It seems to be the reason many planets in the system have large refugee populations. Is there any information you can share on this? or have i missed something else already hidden around?  ;)


It was a civil war, but we don't know much about the factions involved. The Askonian Revolutionary Council (part of the the Antis movement, whatever that is exactly)  could have been involved, but it could also have been founded post-crisis. In any case, someone seems to have used a planetary killer device to blow up the capital-city-moon Opis. You can see its debris ring orbiting Salus.
Then either the Hegemoney send an intervention task force under Admiral Andrada, or the Admiral took a force there without orders, but in in case he betrayed the Hegemony and founded the Sindrian Diktat. What the nature of that intervention would have been, if it was ordered, is not clear. Knowing the Hegemoney it could have been to exterminate, not to help. So, maybe Andrada took pity on the system and could be considered its savior?  


I have a explorer character, Dora Cousteau, who specializes if zipping through the Sector and digging out that stuff ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on November 28, 2015, 03:10:02 AM
I was somewhat amused to find that while the Luddic Path are more radical than the mainstream Church in pretty much every other way, they don't seem to care about the GM lobsters at all.

Mh, how did you notice that?
It's in the intel screen... but I only noticed when I was digging in the .faction file to update the wiki ::)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on December 04, 2015, 07:15:55 PM
Just found out that the description of Doom warns about psycological effect of repeated phase cloaking.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on December 07, 2015, 05:18:45 AM
Question - what are the creterion for AI classification? Alpha, beta, gamma stuff.

Gathering what I can recall:
*Alpha-level was banned in Domain, and therefore is in Hegemony. Tri-Tachyon corporation itself is suspected to somehow be one, using company regulations to operate.
*Terminator drone of Tempest-class features Beta-level 'personality'. Other drone has Gamma-level personality at most, or just remotely controlled.

But nothing is mentioned on how to classify AIs.
Might need it on future modding.
Spoiler
Someone might already have guessed that I'm a fan of 'sentient machines' stuff.
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on December 07, 2015, 06:31:38 AM
Mh, hard to say. What follows is a lot of speculation based on only a few hints in the lore.

(The remark about the Terminator drone being beta level seems to have been removed.)


IIRC it's a gamma level AI that calculates your chances of boarding success. That implies two things:
- They exist on every hyper capable vessel, even the trashiest.
- That the are only brought up in boarding situations and don't seem to be the central AI of the ship (if that exists) implies they are very specialized and have a narrow focus.
I would assume gammas to be the classical idiot savants, brilliant at what they are designed for (e.g. simulating boarding, controlling drone swarms) but incapable of anything else.


Then there are alpha+ level AIs, the ban of which is so important to the Hegemony that they went to war with TT over it twice. That implies that they consider alpha+ AIs extremely dangerous. Which in turn implies that they have the potential to threaten the Hegemony or even humanity at large. There are two factors an AI has to fulfill to qualify for that. It has to be:

- Unconstrained, free-thinking, general purpose
- More intelligent than humans


I would assume Alphas to  also be more intelligent than humans (even Gammas are, in their area of expertise) but a lot more constrained in how they can use that intelligence. I doubt they are allowed to think about their place in the universe, why they do what they do, and so on. So, high intelligence, limited self-awareness.


That leaves Betas. Is there one mentioned now in the game? I would imagine them like a tight bundle of Gammas, i.e. able to fulfill a broad variety of preprogrammed jobs very well, but not really able to adapt to completely new situations like Alphas, and not in any danger to become really self aware. The ship computer in Star Trek might be an example for a Beta AI.


So, in short:

Alpha+: High intelligence, unlimited scope, unlimited freedom
Alpha: High intelligence, almost unlimited scope (general purpose), limited freedom
Beta: Medium intelligence, wide scope (multi-purpose), limited freedom
Gamma: Limited intelligence, limited scope (single purpose), very limited freedom







Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on December 07, 2015, 06:43:24 AM
Ship systems>Terminator Drone still keeps that description.
Possible that it is left forgotten but meant to be removed tho.

Could Alpha+ mean "Alpha or above"?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on December 07, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Then there are alpha+ level AIs, the ban of which is so important to the Hegemony that they went to war with TT over it twice. That implies that they consider alpha+ AIs extremely dangerous. Which in turn implies that they have the potential to threaten the Hegemony or even humanity at large. There are two factors an AI has to fulfill to qualify for that. It has to be:

- Unconstrained, free-thinking, general purpose
- More intelligent than humans
I disagree. You do not need something to be unconstrained, free-thinking, or general purpose, or for it to be more intelligent than human average for something to qualify as extremely dangerous - many large terrestrial carnivores, for example, are potentially extremely dangerous to even a prepared human if the human is in that animal's preferred environment or unintentionally comes close to the animal; there are more reasons than simple competition or need for food that have lead humanity to do its best to drive out, hunt out, or exterminate such animals over much of humanity's range and history. Moreover, it is not necessary for something to be a threat to the Hegemony or humanity at large for it to have been worth a war to the Hegemony; something as simple as an irreconcilable difference in ideology could be sufficient to cause a war, and high-end AI development would certainly appear as though it'd be unpopular with the Hegemony's large Luddite population (heck, the game even tells us that the treaty restrictions imposed by the Hegemony at the end of the first war bought the Hegemony's government some approval from its Luddites).

Beyond that, there are reasons beyond simple threat to ban the development and use of machinery with human- or near-human-level sentience and sapience. If your desktop computer is about as sentient and sapient as you are, is it morally or ethically acceptable for you to buy or sell it? Upgrade it without it having a say in the matter? Sell off parts of it that you don't really need anymore or at the moment? Turn it on or off at your convenience? Require it to perform whatever task you ask of it, regardless of its preferences or the cost to its well-being? It's a machine, initially built for the express purpose of being a tool, but it's also something which, in the absence of knowledge of the form of the entity, could be mistaken for a human. Banning alpha+ level AI development and use could be as simple as a natural extension of the modern world's abhorrence of human slavery; mass production of a sufficiently sentient and sapient machine is not in any significant way different from industrial-scale commercial human cloning. The 'product' of either process is something which most likely cannot legally, ethically, or morally be sold as a commodity*; most people probably agree that whether you came out of a test tube, a cloning vat, or a woman does not matter when it comes to your legal rights. An entity which is sufficiently sentient and sapient to be (nearly) indistinguishable from a human in the absence of information on the form of the entity could reasonably be expected to be granted the same set of rights. People have fought wars over much more minor issues than whether or not an entire category of entities are deserving of the same (or at least similar) treatment as humans (of course, people have also ignored such major issues for a variety of reasons, ranging from money to common enemies to an earnest desire on the part of all, or at least most, parties to at least avoid open war even if they can't live in perfect harmony).

Personally, my feeling is that the reason that alpha+ level AIs are banned is because they can pass the Turing test (or some other test or tests of sentience or sapience), not because they're all supergeniuses, and the reason why beta-level and lower AIs are not banned is because they cannot pass the test. It's the AIs that are capable of passing the test that can pull off the revolutions that science horror fiction likes to feature, it's the AIs that are capable of passing the test for whom treatment as an object, commercial product, or lower lifeform is at its most questionable from a moral, ethical, and legal standpoint*, and it's the (mass producible) AIs capable of passing the test which are capable of causing the most economic disruption as they're the kinds most capable of putting the largest fraction of the workforce out of work (though you'd arguably be better off with a set of specialized lesser AIs than something which is more or less an artificial human).

Fear of supposedly superhuman AIs can work as a reason for the AI Wars of Starsector, but I don't feel that it's necessary. Fear of economic disruption, moral dilemas, and a need to play for public support all work just as well, especially if the Hegemony had been looking to bring the Tri-Tachyon Corporation "into line" for other reasons and this was just a convenient excuse. As far as I'm aware, we don't know what the causes of the First AI War actually are; the name and the knowledge we have of the terms imposed by the treaty imply that it had something to do with the TTC's AI development and usage, but it's also possible that that's just what the official Hegemony (and possibly also TTC and independent) histories want people to focus on; certainly all indications are that a war justified on the grounds of 'immoral technology' is going to be relatively popular with the Church of Ludd, the Luddic Path, and the largely-Luddite population on many Hegemony worlds, whereas a difference of opinion over who has tech mining rights or a territorial claim on Exar Secundus might not be so popular or as in line with the historian's worldview.

*Under most modern codes of law, ethics, and morals.

Quote
Could Alpha+ mean "Alpha or above"?
Yes.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on December 07, 2015, 01:25:35 PM
Well, sure, workforce displacement and ethical factors are valid concerns when it comes to AI development.
But the former is a problem that starts way earlier, at the latest with robotics in general, and the Hegs have no problem with that (Jangala's plantations are tended by robotic harvesters).
And the latter just doesn't fit the hegemony, it is not a faction driven by ethical concerns. Don't forget that they apparently wipe away entire worlds if they stand in their way (Mayasura), or that the accept massive social injustice on their worlds (Eventide). Even their faction description states that they do away with human rights if it serves their goal.

Anyway, both reasons pale in comparison with the (perceived) thread of racial extinction. And to justify two major wars, with untold cost in human lives and for the economy, you need a damn good reason.


Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Plantissue on December 07, 2015, 02:08:46 PM
The reason could simply be that as domain has deemed it so, so has the Hegemony bureaucracy has deemed it too so. Would be humorous, but uninteresting.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on December 07, 2015, 04:40:29 PM
And to justify two major wars, with untold cost in human lives and for the economy, you need a damn good reason.
History disagrees.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: harrumph on December 08, 2015, 07:58:43 AM
Relevant bit from the recent New Yorker article about Nick Bostrom (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/23/doomsday-invention-artificial-intelligence-nick-bostrom):

Quote
Will an A.I., if realized, use its vast capability in a way that is beyond human control? One way to think about the concern is to begin with the familiar. Bos­trom writes, “Artificial intelligence already outperforms human intelligence in many domains.” The examples range from chess to Scrabble. One program from 1981, called Eurisko, was designed to teach itself a naval role-playing game. After playing ten thousand matches, it arrived at a morally grotesque strategy: to field thousands of small, immobile ships, the vast majority of which were intended as cannon fodder. In a national tournament, Eurisko demolished its human opponents, who insisted that the game’s rules be changed. The following year, Eurisko won again—by forcing its damaged ships to sink themselves.

The program was by no means superintelligent. But Bostrom’s book essentially asks: What if it were? Assume that it has a broad ability to consider problems and that it has access to the Internet. It could read and acquire general knowledge and communicate with people seamlessly online. It could conduct experiments, either virtually or by tinkering with networked infrastructure. Given even the most benign objective—to win a game—such a system, Bostrom argues, might develop “instrumental goals”: gather resources, or invent technology, or take steps to insure that it cannot be turned off, in the process paying as much heed to human life as humans do to ants.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Tartiflette on December 08, 2015, 08:18:30 AM
And to justify two major wars, with untold cost in human lives and for the economy, it just has to earn somebody a big fat boatload of money/power.
Corrected that for you ^^
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on December 08, 2015, 03:38:31 PM
Back to the track, are there any other texts mentioning AIs? None about alpha or above AFAIK.

Gamma does sound like a 'expert system'. Simulator, drone control, and maybe automated ship subsystem.

Would be a lot more easy if David kindly replied the original question.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on December 08, 2015, 04:18:38 PM
Would be a lot more easy if David kindly replied the original question.

 :-X
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on December 08, 2015, 04:30:10 PM
Well, the Kite has a Delta level AI that controls it thrusters for super smooth landing. Mh, landing a craft does sound like a way less complicated task then planning a boarding operation. Seems more of a scaling thing than a fundamentally new category, though. Well, those things are fluid.


By the way, the Terminator description speaks of AI "personalities". I wonder if that means anything.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on December 08, 2015, 04:30:31 PM
Would be a lot more easy if David kindly replied the original question.

 :-X
;D

Well, the Kite has a Delta level AI that controls it thrusters for super smooth landing. Mh, landing a craft does sound like a way less complicated task then planning a boarding operation. Seems more of a scaling thing than a fundamentally new category, though. Well, those things are fluid.
Sounds like some modern computer programs would fall into Delta.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on December 12, 2015, 02:10:10 AM
David, can you please shine some light on the particular thicket of our ignorance displayed by this discussion (from the release thread):


Yeah, [the Domain Epochs are] old lore from the game's former writer Ivaylo, AFAIK not reflected in the game proper. I'm not sure if it can even be considered canon anymore.

Back then it was:

Mastery-epoch = low-tech
Core-epoch = midline
Expansion-epoch = high-tech

But for example the Gryphon, which is visually a midline design, is now described as being used just before the Gates collapsed, which would put it in the Expansion-epoch. I don't know if that's a mistake or if David is throwing those old concepts over board.


Yeah, it's old lore from the game's former writer Ivaylo, not reflected in the game proper. I'm not sure if it can even be considered canon anymore.
I'd argue that it can't really be considered canon anymore. For starters, as far as I know the Mastery Epoch is no longer referenced anywhere within the game, and searching descriptions.csv for 'mastery' didn't turn anything up. Then you have the description of the Hammerhead making things somewhat blurry, as it would be redundant, though not wrong, to describe the vessel as a 'Core Epoch midline destroyer' if Core Epoch implied midline and midline implied Core Epoch. You also have the Sunder, which at least in my opinion is a midline destroyer (visual appearances match midline, armament of mixed ballistics and energy is typical of midline, though the flux capacity and dissipation is perhaps a bit on the high side for a midline ship of its armament and the defenses couple the thin armor of high tech ships with the inefficient shields of low tech ships instead of the more typical midline approach of moderately efficient shields coupled with average armor), but which is explicitly stated to be an (early) Expansion Epoch design; if the Sunder is midline, then midline very definitely cannot imply Core Epoch, though Core Epoch could still imply midline (but, of course, the Gryphon and Heron cast doubt upon that).

But for example the Gryphon, which is visually a midline design, is now described as being used just before the Gates collapsed, which would put it in the Expansion-epoch. I don't know if that's a mistake or if David is throwing those old concepts over board.
The Heron is another example of this; it is by appearances, stats, system (midline drones like the Gemini or Atlas rather than high tech drones like the Apogee, Astral, or Tempest), and armament a midline ship, but as the embodiment of a doctrinal shift which was interrupted by the Collapse it'd be somewhat odd for it to be a Core Epoch design since the Collapse ended the Expansion Epoch.

The Monitor is another ship that casts doubt upon the Epoch-tech equivalency, as it is a more-or-less midline design whose description can be read in a way that implies it to be a post-Collapse and thus post-Expansion Epoch design.


i thought it was core was the earliest, which roughly translates to the battleship era, then mastery, which was a shift towards the 'cruiser school' (talked about, i believe, in one of the mission briefings) and a sort of more modern-esque naval doctrine of force projection using faster, higher-tech carrier/cruiser groups, and then the expansion which was even higher-tech where a bunch of mega-engineering projects were started in the local sector. the gate collapse ended the expansion epoch because it cut everyone off. am i wrong?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on December 12, 2015, 10:00:26 AM
David, can you please shine some light on the particular thicket of our ignorance displayed by this discussion (from the release thread):


Yeah, [the Domain Epochs are] old lore from the game's former writer Ivaylo, AFAIK not reflected in the game proper. I'm not sure if it can even be considered canon anymore.


Yes, I'm not really following through on the epoch system. And I'm not too concerned with aligning the ship tech level as categories with particular periods in the history of the Domain except insofar as individual designs with individual histories do.

My attitude is that a new ship can be designed with a greater or lower tolerance and level of sophistication, resulting in it being categorized into an appropriate tech level. That said, there will almost certainly be no "recent" designs of low-tech level ships, excepting certain modification jobs like the Buffalo mk2.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on December 12, 2015, 11:34:41 AM
So all the ships are pre-Collapse designs 100% for sure (bar Buffalo Mk 2 and such)? I remember some discussions about whether the Monitor was a pre- or post-Collapse design due to its description being vague..
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on December 12, 2015, 12:22:26 PM
So all the ships are pre-Collapse designs 100% for sure (bar Buffalo Mk 2 and such)? I remember some discussions about whether the Monitor was a pre- or post-Collapse design due to its description being vague..
That there are no post-Collapse designs other than modification jobs does not follow from the statement that there are no recent low-tech designs aside from certain modification jobs.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on December 13, 2015, 11:12:02 AM
That there are no post-Collapse designs other than modification jobs does not follow from the statement that there are no recent low-tech designs aside from certain modification jobs.

That's why I'm asking.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on December 13, 2015, 02:36:22 PM
That there are no post-Collapse designs other than modification jobs does not follow from the statement that there are no recent low-tech designs aside from certain modification jobs.

That's why I'm asking.

We're going to have to find out by seeing what future updates to Starsector hold for us :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on December 13, 2015, 06:04:15 PM
We're going to have to find out by seeing what future updates to Starsector hold for us :)

Like you're not in charge of it...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Linnis on December 31, 2015, 12:43:27 AM
Dat Ludd world perk really make me think stations can change hands in the future.

Market economies are computer incorperated so any number can be built and still function in the economy.

David saying new ship developemnts are maybe a thing.


I think ship building, modification, and design will be a player thing. Confirmed!

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SpacePoliticianAndaZealot on January 02, 2016, 06:08:04 AM
If we were to compare the three Epochs to armoured fighting vehicles made throughout the 20th ceuntry, which one would be a good example of Core Epoch design and/or doctrine?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on January 02, 2016, 07:44:33 AM
If we were to compare the three Epochs to armoured fighting vehicles made throughout the 20th ceuntry, which one would be a good example of Core Epoch design and/or doctrine?

I think a naval analogy is much more apt, though still is only loosely applied.

So: Lowtech = WW1 & previous, midline = WW2, hightech = post-WW2.

(Armoured fighting vehicles would be much more limited, and I guess for the sake of an interesting scale we'd have to restrict ourselves to just WW2 'cause that's where all the interesting variety is. I mean, very very roughly, WW1 was like "what's a tank! Oh, this is a tank" and post-WW2 was like "it's all about the MBT". Though, side-note, the doctrine around how various nations used the MBT is indeed fascinating, I mean, just take Sweden's turretless thing vs. Israel's Merkerva, and wossit turret stabilizer technology and fascinating developments in armour and active countermeasures ... but so much of it is only tangentially inapplicable to the mood Starsector is trying to evoke.  ... So yeah, let's stick with the naval metaphor.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SpacePoliticianAndaZealot on January 17, 2016, 02:09:57 PM
Well, navy is not exactly my niche, but it makes sense if I look through the submarine designs  :-[

Something that bugs me for quite a while now:
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on January 17, 2016, 09:52:11 PM
Quote
What is the oldest ship design present in game?
Lore-wise, probably the Onslaught. The basic design appears to have predated shields as the shield generator is known to have been a "much" later addition, the Onslaught is the only ship known to have had its FTL drive upgraded during a design revision which occurred at some point well after first entering service (at least that I can recall), and the description of the Thermal Pulse Cannon implies that the Onslaught design is roughly contemporary with or predates the introduction of modular energy weapons (since modular energy weapons are, according to the Codex entry for the Thermal Pulse Cannon, too new to have been trusted by Domain naval architects at the time that the design was created). The Enforcer's codex entry suggests that the Enforcer design might be contemporary with the Onslaught, though it's possible that it was simply designed under the assumption that it'd be operating with Onslaughts and with logistical convenience in mind.

Quote
What is the oldest weapon in game?
Difficult to say based off of what's in the Codex. Certain weapons don't represent a specific weapon system so much as a family of similar weapons (Light Machine Guns are one example; Light Autocannons might be another since the bore diameter given in the codex entry appears to be the normal bore diameter for weapons classed as light autocannons rather than the bore diameter of the specific weapon called a Light Autocannon), and some of these weapon families could reasonably be thought to have been among the earliest spaceship weapons to enter service; whether or not any such ancient weapons are actually in service or in circulation within the sector is not something that is possible to establish, given the information we have available.

As far as weapons which we know to represent a specific weapon system go, I'd suggest that the Thermal Pulse Cannon is likely to be among the oldest designs in service in the sector. Even if it's not the oldest weapon currently in service, though, the TPC is almost certainly the oldest of the large energy weapons currently in service (other than the Onslaught, no known designs predating the Expansion Epoch can even mount large energy weapons) and probably at least close to being the oldest of the energy weapons (mining lasers, mining blasters, and the various types of PD laser might predate it, maybe). Mark IX Autocannons are another contender for being among the oldest weapon designs in the game. They were rediscovered post-Collapse and examination of the blueprints lead them to be considered so obsolete that nobody bothered trying to build one for years, they are suggested in the Codex entry to be a development of some of the earliest Domain-era weapon designs, the Codex entry suggests that the weapon might be bulky for its capabilities (at least by comparison with modern weapons), and the sprite's appearances suggest that the weapon is quite old.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Taverius on January 18, 2016, 03:02:03 PM
I bet the oldest is the hound.

And sure, low-tech has few ships - I think that may be by design, as they're from a time when things were deeply utilitarian and only the most useful designs made it to modern times.

Though the extra low-tech ships in SS+ fit in pretty nicely so there's certainly gameplay-space for a few more. Just don't take ship count too seriously, remember low-tech has no carriers, because its from before fighters.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on January 18, 2016, 06:52:07 PM
Quote
Just don't take ship count too seriously, remember low-tech has no carriers, because its from before fighters.
The Venture is a low-tech carrier and the Talon is a low-tech fighter. Buffalo Mk IIs and Condors are also low-tech ships which are almost certainly predated by fightercraft - after all, the Buffalo II is a conversion of the now-midline Buffalo freighter and the Condor is a carrier conversion of the Tarsus.

Possibly you meant the somewhat more supportable claim that Mastery Epoch predates fightercraft, though I'd point out that the only three direct pieces of information we have indicating when fighters were introduced, at least that I can recall, are that the Onslaught, an extremely old design, predates fightercraft, that Broadswords are an "early epoch" design, and that the Conquest, which appears to be an early Core Epoch design, predates the popularization of fightercraft; a fourth piece of information is the Venture, which appears to be an older low-tech cruiser, has a flight deck as a standard feature. None of that information contradicts the idea that early fighters like the Talon and Broadsword are from the late Mastery Epoch; indeed, the Broadsword's claim to be from the "early" epoch might be taken to be confirmation that the Broadsword's design predates the Core or Expansion Epochs and so must be from the (probably late) Mastery Epoch.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Taverius on January 18, 2016, 07:20:26 PM
I'm pretty sure epochs are not a thing anymore.

The Venture is also mid-tech, not low-tech - unless David says otherwise I take the presence of a modular energy mount as confirmation.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 18, 2016, 07:37:43 PM
Venture is low tech, no doubt.
Spoiler
    "engineSlots": [
        {
            "angle": 180,
            "contrailSize": 64,
            "length": 64,
            "location": [
                -76,
                83
            ],
            "style": "LOW_TECH",
            "width": 20
        },
        {
            "angle": 180,
            "contrailSize": 64,
            "length": 64,
            "location": [
                -76,
                -83
            ],
            "style": "LOW_TECH",
            "width": 20
        },
        {
            "angle": 180,
            "contrailSize": 64,
            "length": 48,
            "location": [
                -84,
                69
            ],
            "style": "LOW_TECH",
            "width": 16
        },
        {
            "angle": 180,
            "contrailSize": 64,
            "length": 48,
            "location": [
                -84,
                -69
            ],
            "style": "LOW_TECH",
            "width": 16
        },
        {
            "angle": 180,
            "contrailSize": 64,
            "length": 96,
            "location": [
                -84,
                56
            ],
            "style": "LOW_TECH",
            "width": 16
        },
        {
            "angle": 180,
            "contrailSize": 64,
            "length": 96,
            "location": [
                -84,
                -56
            ],
            "style": "LOW_TECH",
            "width": 16
        }
    ],
    "height": 190,
    "hullId": "venture",
    "hullName": "Venture",
    "hullSize": "CRUISER",
    "shieldCenter": [
        0,
        0
    ],
    "shieldRadius": 135,
    "spriteName": "graphics/ships/venture.png",
    "style": "LOW_TECH",
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on January 18, 2016, 09:15:46 PM
I'm pretty sure epochs are not a thing anymore.
Epochs are still a thing. Hammerheads are described in the Codex as a "Core Epoch midline destroyer;" Tempests, Sunders, and Hurricane MIRV Launchers are all Expansion Epoch technology. The Mastery Epoch isn't directly attested anywhere within the game anymore, at least as far as I'm aware, though Broadswords are said to be an 'early epoch' design, Wasps are said to handle 'early epoch' fighters well, Thermal Pulse Cannons are "a bulky energy weapon from the early epoch," and Mark IX Autocannons reference what appears to be a different early epoch.

The part about epochs that isn't a thing anymore is the strict equivalency between a given epoch and a given tech style, i.e. the old Mastery Epoch = low-tech, Core Epoch = midline, Expansion Epoch = high-tech.

The Venture is also mid-tech, not low-tech - unless David says otherwise I take the presence of a modular energy mount as confirmation.
In addition to what MesoTroniK posted, there's the fact that the Venture's protection scheme is far more in line with the normal low-tech protection scheme (high hull and armor strength, poor shields) than with the normal midline protection scheme (average hull and armor strength, average shields). The Venture is also pretty slow, whereas midline and high-tech cruisers tend to emphasize speed.

I would further add that the presence of a modular energy mount does not prove that the Venture is not low-tech. There are in fact two other low-tech ships with energy mounts - the Buffalo Mk II (which has two small energy mounts) and the Mule (which has a medium energy mount); the Shepherd, also a low-tech ship, has a small universal mount (which is unique for a low-tech ship; all other universal mounts appear on midline or high-tech ships). We also know from the description of the Thermal Pulse Cannon that modular energy mounts were introduced at around the same time as and probably slightly earlier than the TPCs were added to the Onslaught design (or possibly at around the same time that the Onslaught design was created, depending on whether or not you feel that the TPCs are an original part of the Onslaught design or were added during a design revision such as the one in the Onslaught's codex description which added shields, upgraded the FTL drives, and reduced crew requirements), as a part of the reason why the TPC is built into the Onslaught is that the naval architects responsible did not trust modular energy mounts enough to make use of them rather than that modular energy mounts simply were not an option at the time.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on January 19, 2016, 06:35:46 PM
There are only two options - LOW_TECH and HIGH_TECH on that thing MesoTroniK posted. LOW_TECH corresponds to red flame and shield color, and HIGH_TECH means blue flame and shield.

If it has an energy mount, it's no low-tech.
Exception of course is the Onslaught with its bulky, built-in energy cannons. I took it as their technology wasn't sufficient for modular energy weapons back then.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 19, 2016, 06:46:05 PM
There are only two options - LOW_TECH and HIGH_TECH on that thing MesoTroniK posted. LOW_TECH corresponds to red flame and shield color, and HIGH_TECH means blue flame and shield.

If it has an energy mount, it's no low-tech.
Exception of course is the Onslaught with its bulky, built-in energy cannons. I took it as their technology wasn't sufficient for modular energy weapons back then.

Incorrect:

    "hullId": "eagle",
    "hullName": "Eagle",
    "hullSize": "CRUISER",
    "shieldCenter": [
        25,
        0
    ],
    "shieldRadius": 155,
    "spriteName": "graphics/ships/eagle/eagle_base.png",
    "style": "MIDLINE",

Hull style also determines much more than what you stated. Hull and engine styles do not lie, the Venture is low tech.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on January 19, 2016, 07:22:30 PM
It seems I had wrong info then...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on January 19, 2016, 07:41:26 PM
Here is the easy guide to identifying vanilla ship tech levels just from visual appearance:

Low-tech: Orange engine flames with lots of smoke. Brown to orange hulls. Reddish brown shields.
Midline: Yellow engine flames with less smoke. Tan or grey hulls. Blue shields.
High-tech: Blue engine flames with little smoke. Blue to blue-grey hulls. Blue shields.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Tartiflette on January 20, 2016, 12:20:16 AM
Just a reminder:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=437.msg175259#msg175259

Ships tied to Epochs are no longer a thing. They are only more or less sophisticated and while some designs may be older than others, there isn't a hard timeline separation between them. Much like real life history: a few WW2 battleships were maintained into active service while there were much newer designs, but not all these newer designs were as modern as others depending on their origin...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on January 20, 2016, 08:29:39 AM
Ships tied to Epochs are no longer a thing.
No. Ship tech levels are no longer tied to epochs. Some ships are still tied to epochs, however; Hammerheads are explicitly from the Core Epoch while Tempests and Sunders are explicitly from the Expansion Epoch. We can no longer say that because ship XYZ is midline it must be from the Core Epoch, but we can look at age indicators in the Codex entry and look a bit at the ship's appearance and try to make an educated guess - the Heron, for example, is likely (late) Expansion Epoch since it appears as though it was introduced shortly before the Collapse while the Conquest is probably from around the same period as or perhaps somewhat earlier than the Hammerhead based on visual appearances and the fact that it was introduced shortly before the popularization of strike craft. If the epoch of the XIV Battle Group is well-established, that could also be used to establish the latest epoch from which the ships in it could have originated.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on April 17, 2016, 11:32:01 AM
How big a deal is it for a capital ship, whether it be a super freighter or a battleship, to arrive at a station or planet?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ValkyriaL on April 19, 2016, 05:52:35 AM
Just a reminder:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=437.msg175259#msg175259

Ships tied to Epochs are no longer a thing. They are only more or less sophisticated and while some designs may be older than others, there isn't a hard timeline separation between them. Much like real life history: a few WW2 battleships were maintained into active service while there were much newer designs, but not all these newer designs were as modern as others depending on their origin...

Indeed, if you have something that works, and works well, why replace it?
Battleships were mainly kept in service because up to this point, we had nothing that can provide the kind of fire support that a battleship did, and building a new battleship would be considerably more expensive than repairing the existing ones, the US navy for instance was furious when the Iowa's were decommisioned for the last time, losing an invaluable piece of artillery, and only today, 70 years after the Iowa was built, have we found a viable alternative to the battleship, which is a railgun.


How big a deal is it for a capital ship, whether it be a super freighter or a battleship, to arrive at a station or planet?

In what context? fighting? or just "omg its a battleship, I've never seen one before! I'ts so HUGE!"
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on April 19, 2016, 11:24:31 AM
The question was too vague, sorry. I meant arriving peacefully. The Atlas description implies that a capital ship is a huge deal, but it's description is old and capitals are pretty common now. Sindria can end up surrounded by super freighters and it seems there's at least one capital ship, usually several, on patrol in every system.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Aeson on April 19, 2016, 07:35:07 PM
The Atlas description implies that a capital ship is a huge deal
I don't really agree, at least not for the Atlas. The impression I get from the Codex entry for the Atlas is that the Atlases are regular, even frequent, visitors to a specific set of spaceports, but are only very rarely, if ever, seen elsewhere, and so to the locals they're nothing special but to visitors to the area they're something that might be interesting or unusual or famous enough to go see. Kind of like how 20 years ago you'd probably never have considered going to an airport just to see a Boeing 747 or an Airbus A330, but if you were visiting one of the handful of cities that the Concordes regularly flew into or out of and you had a bit of time you might have gone to see a Concorde.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on August 28, 2016, 06:56:50 AM
Rise, thread; rise!

I wonder how many corps mentioned in the lore will be represented in the Sector. Tri-Tachyon obviously, and Ko Combine as well; but what of Fabrique Orbitale, Huan-Gogel, Altair Exotech, Orion Shipyards, Bhilai Exospace... I expect some (if not all) of them wouldn't have any presence in the Sector after the Collapse, and not all would be politically-inclined like Tri-Tach. Still, would be nice to round up corp factions to three (or more...).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Deshara on August 28, 2016, 08:10:15 AM
I'd really like dhuzak and penelopy to have flavor text that establishes every polity mentioned in other, definitely current flavor text (of things that are still alive and in use like ships) that died with them.
Like, if Fabrique Orbitale used to be where the crater of a Great Crater world is because one of their Orbitales wasn't quite so Fabriqued, I'd love to be able to dig that up in survey text. Maybe even uncovering the final shipping logs of a ship manufactor that died as soon as the collapse happened you could get an unmarked quest that spawns a perfect condition s_class midline noncombat ship that's in a derelict convoy that never reached its destination being tended by a attache of drones that you could find if you fly from that planet to the nearest derelict ring, and then from all of the destination planets to their nearest derelict rings.
And then, if you take the ship without modifying it or letting it take damage ("new, showcase condition") to the destination planet a quest dialogue will come up mentioning that one of your crew muses that the convoy might have not been at it's final stop, and if you then go to the other destinations one of the other planets, if surveyed, contains a settlement of mercenaries squatting in the abandoned delivery site and the quest can be completed by you trying to turn over the ship to the mercenary quartermaster, whose salvaged pre-collapse computer confirms that this delivery is expected, doesn't check any of the dates on the paperwork and pays you for the now-worthless corporate luxury shuttle in it's pre-collapse value.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on April 25, 2017, 06:31:25 AM
Just realized Maairath is the destroyed world from the Last Hurrah, reading the description of the mission and visiting it in game gave me chills

great job alex and david  ;D
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Toxcity on April 25, 2017, 08:48:22 AM
So with all the new lore in the game I'm surprised this thread isn't busier right now. I know I'm wondering about the AI wars again after playing this update.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on April 25, 2017, 11:42:30 AM
What news do we know about the AI wars? Except that

Spoiler
there are AI survivors.
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Toxcity on April 25, 2017, 12:10:20 PM
Well we know that:
Spoiler
Those AI survivors are from the 1st AI war, but they didn't seem to make an appearance in the 2nd AI war based on mission descriptions. They also don't appear to be rogue (in the sense that they would attack anyone) since they seem to be looking for Tri-Tachyon officials. They're also not hostile to Tri-Tachyon in the files.
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on April 25, 2017, 01:16:35 PM
We actually knew that before. At least those of us wo furiously studied and cross-related every morsel of text in the game :) Most of it is in the mission description of "Wolf pack", actually. The first AI war involved AIs, and was settled with their VERBOT by the Hegemony. The second AI war was about the Hegemony's rights of inspecting and enforcing that ban, which the TTs didn't want to accept.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on April 27, 2017, 05:04:04 PM
Speaking of Mission Lore, a touch I really liked is how Independent and Hegemony captains are often named whereas Tri-Tachyon fleet executives never are. Kind of emphasises the cold and faceless nature of TT and how individuality is squashed in favour of conformity to the Corporate Charter.

I wonder if characters from Missions will show up in the Sandbox. I hope so if story missions in the vein of the Tutorial becomes a thing.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on April 30, 2017, 10:17:01 PM
What was the involvement of the League during the AI Wars, if any?

I imagine they would have been seen as an obvious opportunity to cut the Hegemony down to size. But the conflicts involved TT's development of AI technology, and fear of that might lead to the League public and/or government preferring to leave the other two factions to fight it out themselves.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Bastion.Systems on May 01, 2017, 10:21:01 AM
The current stalemate suits League very well, withering down the resources of both superpowers. I would assume they secretly helped Tri-Tachyon due to them being the underdog during the war so that Hegemony would not become a sole superpower free to start snacking on League members.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on May 01, 2017, 06:55:36 PM
Despite the League being specifically formed to resist the Hegemony we really know nothing about how they've antagonised the Hegemony other than a suggestion that they've assisted Andrada in maintaining Sindrian independence (we know more about their conflicts with the Luddic Church than the Hegemony). As it is the League feels like a polity like any other instead of a federation of independent states, with most of the lore being about how they've consolidated their power (or Kazeron's power?), and some of the member states don't have any lore about their culture, politics, motivations for joining the League, etc.

From what I can gather, the independent polities of the League are:


Kazeron: a stratocracy, probably not dissimilar to Sindria except without a sole dictator. The few military exploits of the League we know of seem to be more properly Kazeron's exploits, e.g. Mazalot and Isirah. Not counting Mazalot's exiled regime, this is the only League polity that has a permanent presence in more than one system (Laicaille habitat). There's also the independent world of Eldfell in Thule which we know nothing of: given Kazeron's militancy there must be something going on here.


Mazalot: an unstable polity prone to regime changes, in part because of a large Luddic population. Despite being the largest or second largest League population, Mazalot seems more like a client state than an equal partner in the League; with little power even in its own system seeing how Yesod is handled.


Salamanca: I'm surprised this is a League world instead of an Independent or Pirate world - a backwater industrial planet taken over by a corrupt/criminal ex-Mazalot government. I guess the League really doesn't care about domestic politics and will take anyone that will swear fealty. The question is what the Salamancan government gains from re-applying for League membership after their exile: there's an equally large Pirate world in the same system, so it doesn't seem like they're under threat from the Hegemony.


Mairaath: the tragic story of the enlightened brought low by ignorance and mindless hate. I always wanted to know: what was the canonical end to The Last Hurrah? In the end it probably doesn't matter, as even if the Mayasurian fleet won the day the Hegemony will send more, and eventually they will be overcome. I'd like to think that the Mayasurians prevailed that day, and with that unexpected victory were able to secure League membership and spare their broken world from Hegemony eradication.


The Westernesse League: a mini-league consisting of Fikenhild, Athulf and Suddene. Other than Fikenhild being the system representative we know almost nothing about the individual polities. There's also the independent world of Ailmar that again we know nothing about, although there must be some background as to why it isn't part of Westernesse's mini-league.


Madiera: again we know nothing about this polity. Presumably Cibola is ruled by Madiera rather than an independent polity in itself.


Olinadu: we know they joined the League to protect themselves from the Luddics. Abundant volatiles aside, the League probably sees it mostly as a buffer-state against the Church.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hazard on May 02, 2017, 12:27:16 AM
A few questions concerning the Domain of Man, sorry if these have been answered already:

1. According to the old "State Of Affairs" blog post, the Domain was governed by "the Ecumenical Benevolent Council". Is this still considered canon? The word ecumenical has a rather strong religious connotation, and it made me wonder if the Domain was perhaps some form of ecclesiocracy. Am I completely wrong here? :)

2. How unified was the Domain? Was it made up of different political entities, states and other actors, or was it mostly a monolithic whole?

3. We know rebellious worlds defying Domain rule existed, and that the Domain Armada was used to keep these in check, but was this the sole purpose it had?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on May 02, 2017, 03:02:18 AM
A few questions concerning the Domain of Man, sorry if these have been answered already:

1. According to the old "State Of Affairs" blog post, the Domain was governed by "the Ecumenical Benevolent Council". Is this still considered canon? The word ecumenical has a rather strong religious connotation, and it made me wonder if the Domain was perhaps some form of ecclesiocracy. Am I completely wrong here? :)

The old blogposts are not really canon anymore, the writer changed. The presence of the Luddic faith however, is a hint that religion in general was still widespread.


2. How unified was the Domain? Was it made up of different political entities, states and other actors, or was it mostly a monolithic whole?

 We know very little about the Domain. I think some we can infer from the Domain flag.
The flag is one big, central star, surrounded by 24 smaller stars. Presumably the big one is Earth. The 24 are probably the most important colonies at the time (the flag is many hundreds of years (maybe 1000) old). That gives you a hint that the Domain is (was) a federation of some sort, albeit with a very prominent central power.

Then there are many hints on ancient Roman influences. The Hegemoney was after all founded by a Domain legion, with eagle banner and all. (Reminds me a bit of the Britannic legions after the fall of the Roman empire.) The government organization also seems influenced by that, with institutions like the  "Logisticarum" and "Exploratorium". What , if any, influence that had on the political organization remains unclear.


3. We know rebellious worlds defying Domain rule existed, and that the Domain Armada was used to keep these in check, but was this the sole purpose it had?

There are faint hints on an outside thread in the Onslaught description: "Some even say that they were built to combat non-humans in a long forgotten war." Might be aliens, might be the reason why AIs were banned in Domain space.
Also, the fact that all long range probes (even the ones manufactured in regions were no human presence was (yet) possible) were heavily armed says something about how likely the Domain thought it that they would encounter resistance of some sort.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Tartiflette on May 02, 2017, 04:21:48 AM
with eagle banner and all.
(Pssst, it's a Phoenix! You'l make David sad if you say it's an eagle...)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on May 02, 2017, 09:11:30 AM
The description for Gilead in Canaan calls Old Earth "desecrated", which I guess in the context of Luddic beliefs means it was irrecoverably polluted through rampant materialism. Whether the Luddics are right or just regurgitating unsubstantiated dogma is debatable, but I'm inclined to believe Earth wasn't the jewel of the Domain by the time of the Collapse.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on May 04, 2017, 06:24:43 AM
Spoiler
If all that's needed to throw a station out of orbit was a prometheus tanker, Mairaathian navy could've shot to pieces both falling stations to save the surface. Well, at least I assume they had enough firepower to do so.
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on May 04, 2017, 06:39:42 AM
The description for Gilead in Canaan calls Old Earth "desecrated", which I guess in the context of Luddic beliefs means it was irrecoverably polluted through rampant materialism. Whether the Luddics are right or just regurgitating unsubstantiated dogma is debatable, but I'm inclined to believe Earth wasn't the jewel of the Domain by the time of the Collapse.

Well, most capital planets in the Sector are industrial juggernauts, to garden worlds. I'd assume the same for Earth.


If all that's needed to throw a station out of orbit was a prometheus tanker, Mairaathian navy could've shot to pieces both falling stations to save the surface. Well, at least I assume they had enough firepower to do so.

How is a rain of some million tonnes of debris better?

BTW, only one station fell, pushed by the power of its own maneuvering thrusters. The other was pushed away from the planet by the Prometheus and serves as a pirate hideout in the outer system now.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on May 04, 2017, 06:57:04 AM
About the second station - I must've misread, then. Or jumped to the conclusion.
The difference is the energy would be spread over much larger area. Small chunks would burn in atmosphere, larger would hit the ground anyway. The difference is, the larger area the energy is spread, the lesser effects of this energy are (in this case). It depends on how bad would heating Mairaath's atmosphere would be, but I suspect it wouldn't be as bad as station hitting all at once, not to mention that debris would not only fall all over the place, it's velocity (due to atmospheric friction) would be slower and time it takes for it to fall would be (a bit) longer than station's too. It's like the difference between wearing bulletproof vest and not, one is like being hit by a baseball bat in the chest, and the second one is fatal. It all depends whether Mairaath would take a thousand cuts better than one strong blow or not.
I don't think that would change much, though... Loss of all three stations, no matter how, would cripple Mairaath anyway.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Clockwork Owl on May 05, 2017, 08:18:01 AM
Excerpt from description.csv, hinting how Domain colonization effort were made:

Warning: Likely spoilers for future exploration content! -G
Spoiler
Quote
derelict_gatehauler,CUSTOM,"Massive starships that carry the Gates used to establish near-instaneous connections between worlds of the Domain. The Gate Haulers would burn across space for hundreds of cycles to establish full contact with the grand culture and economy of the Domain. In preparation for the possibility of fringe worlds which spurned the Domain, the Gate Haulers were equipped with potent automated defenses.",,,

derelict_seedship,CUSTOM,"Seeds promising worlds with a suite of lifeforms to kick-start the processes which maintain a Terran environment, from hardy lichens to simple algae up through cryopod drops which release more advanced lifeforms as planetary conditions improve. The seedship will leave the world to gather new materials from small asteroids, manufacture a new terraforming starter kit, and move on to the next target.",,,

derelict_cryosleeper,CUSTOM,Transports tens of thousands of human emmigrants from the core systems of the Domain out into the great frontiers stretching from the Sagittarius Arm across the Orion Spur to these wild reaches on the shores of the Perseus Arm.,,,

This also tells us about Domain territory, the frontiers being Sagittarius Arm, Orion Spur and Perseus Arm.
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on May 05, 2017, 01:26:00 PM
About the second station - I must've misread, then. Or jumped to the conclusion.
The difference is the energy would be spread over much larger area.  It's like the difference between wearing bulletproof vest and not, one is like being hit by a baseball bat in the chest, and the second one is fatal.

If you are trying to protect the core of something, like a bulletproof vest does, it makes sense to spread energy over area. Since planets are only inhabited on the surface (-area), spreading it over a larger area is potentially much more harmful.




Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on May 05, 2017, 06:43:36 PM
Given that the Orion Spur is where our Solar system is located I doubt it's considered a "frontier", unless Earth has fallen so far from grace in the thousands of years of the Domain. Sounds like it's just saying the Sagittarius arm, which is across from the Orion Spur, is the great frontier.

With how small populations are in the Sector (even Chicomoztoc has about 10% of Earth's current population) I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of planetary surfaces are uninhabited (I mean most of modern Earth is uninhabited too), so assuming the station's going to hit a population centre spreading the impact out may possibly result in less destruction. But unless the navy is right there next to the station: bearing in mind that the operation was planned over a long period of time by Pathers: I highly doubt they'd be able to respond in time, and also bearing in mind that the stations are acropolises containing a lot of the system's population... you can imagine they'd be very, very reluctant to fire on them regardless of the consequences. It's not a snap decision many would be able to make (keyword here being "snap").
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: PCCL on May 08, 2017, 08:30:59 AM
Do we have official demonyms for all these worlds?

Sindria - Sindrian
Volturn - Volturnian
Cruor - Cruorian? Cruan?
Kazeron - Kazeronean? Kazeronese?
Mairaath - Mairaathian? Mairaaithi?
Jangala - Jangalan?
Asharu - Asharan?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on May 09, 2017, 03:01:39 AM
Kazerite? Asharite?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: ArkAngel on May 09, 2017, 10:56:48 PM
Kazerionian?
Asharian?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on June 16, 2017, 02:05:36 PM
Ive got a question. What was the cause of the collapse? Will we ever know or will it be a mystery never told because it would suck to never have the chance to know :/ I mean after all we are like a god in this game, we have accelerated time to skip the boring trips and we have a codex with info about everything really. I would be great to at least know how many sectors there were, if this sector is bigger and stronger than the systems near earth, where this sector is located at in the galaxy and last but not least if this sector is the last sector alive (because I would assume a major war with an alien race obliterated the rest of humanity and shutting the gates to protect the last human colonies. Plus how is it that after 200 cycles of isolation humanity hasn't moved on to do some new research and finish terraforming the sector to at least make things go in the right direction. I feel like the fact they havent found any solutions to their problems and instead have wars with each other is kinda ridiculous as they are burning the few ressources they have on pointless battles.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Deshara on June 16, 2017, 04:30:19 PM
the cause of the collapse was videogame preorder culture and unfettered early access nonsense. In the universe Starsector takes place in, Valve never axed Steam Early Access and never lost their domination of the PC marketplace, so even though humanity grew to incredible scope and scale of power, able to bridge the gap between stars with casual ease and terraforming planets to their suiting with no regard to the economic feasibility of doing so, the reality of the matter is that while the growth of human potential is non-linear, and the growth of the growth of humanity is non linear, the growth of the growth of the growth of videogame developer greed is nonlinear, expressed here as hH^2<S^3, so no matter how much of a headstart human endeavor got (h), steam greed (S^3) will outdo all of the good done by all deeds of progress mankind has made (H^2).
Of course, this dreaded point, at which all good deeds of mankind are outstripped by the greed of videogame developers and humankind becomes a slave to the perpetual scam of AAA videogame publishers, toiling away in fun mines for the rest of their lives, digging through the rock and the mud in desperate search for precious nuggets of fun to try to scam eachother out of with fraudulent early access and Kickstarter projects they'll start with no intention of ever finishing, was never actually achieved. We have made sure of that. In fact, the process by which this terrible fate will be diverted has already begun, and indeed Alex herself has written about it under her pseudonym, Peter Watts.
In the novelization of the real life events chronicling the non-fictional backstory of the collapse of the Domain of Man, it is revealed that mankind's super corporations are already aware of the impending collapse of the world economy, and have planted nuclear devices in the crust of the earth and all worlds colonized by man in the future, along with a string of hidden listening posts at the bottom of the abysses of the ocean along major fault-lines that send out pulses of tectonic energy and record the reverberations, sending their findings to dedicated sentient AI who maps out the exact damage that would be caused by force-detonating the largest earthquakes ever witnessed by man & the subsequent tsunamis that would tear through the continents, calculating the theoretical death-tolls of such a cataclysm (in terms of work-hours lost) while also calculating the theoretical number of work-hours lost to the predatory business practices of big videogame publishers and early access culture in general, this their proverbial thumb on the trigger and permission, nay a duty, to detonate the moment the lives lost to The Big One would be smaller than the lives lost to terrible Ubisoft games bought before they were released, and thus released before they were done.

Of course, the dark truth of the real world that we actually live in has been marked as a Sci-Fi novel, and not a very well performing one at that, by the world over largely due to the parts about the people manning the listening posts developing the ability to read minds, imprinting psychically onto each other, utterly losing their humanity and going on to inspire all of the parts of Bioshock 1 that weren't related to the game's theme of Objectivism, not that Ken Levine was honest enough to come out and admit that the dive-suit entombed inhuman psychic monstrosities were ripped off of Alex IE Peter Watts' work.
Anywho, the men in the white coats are here for me again so if you're interested in reading more, the book is free (http://www.rifters.com/real/STARFISH.htm) as an act of philanthropy by Peter Watts who is secrely Alex who is secretly a smart-bomb at the bottom of the sea
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Cik on June 16, 2017, 05:36:29 PM
thanks
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 17, 2017, 05:51:09 PM
(Alright, don't know what all that ^ was about, but- )

I feel like the fact they havent found any solutions to their problems and instead have wars with each other is kinda ridiculous as they are burning the few ressources they have on pointless battles.

In-deeeed.

As for the other questions, some possibilities are hinted at here and there in the game (and in the latest Starsector trailer video), and more exploration of these Big Questions will come in future content patches. Players have speculated some pretty good answers to some of the questions at well, so perhaps someone will chime in with some Theories...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on June 18, 2017, 03:35:03 AM
more exploration of these Big Questions will come in future content patches.

Can't wait :)




As to the whereabouts of the Sector, it's located in the Perseus arm, the next major galactic structure the Orion arm (where Sol is located). (http://galaxymap.org/book_images/orientation/xorion_spur.jpg.pagespeed.ic.HRm-D4bQP3.webp)


Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on June 18, 2017, 07:36:43 PM
Cool thanks for the answers guys! Can't wait for the exploration goodies in the future :) So one question remains i guess which could be answered in some way, is there any other sectors? or was this the first wave of colonies?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Tartiflette on June 18, 2017, 10:51:17 PM
As for the other questions, some possibilities are hinted at here and there in the game (and in the latest Starsector trailer video), and more exploration of these Big Questions will come in future content patches. Players have speculated some pretty good answers to some of the questions at well, so perhaps someone will chime in with some Theories...

I'm still betting it was a botched KB-999544531428B update for their Starscreen OS that glitched the gates' FTL communication array and shut them down. Without FTL network, the UberSoft company now has to manually fly a hotfix on USB-247 sticks to every gate manually and reactivate them. The Sector being on the edges of the Domain, the spacecrafts delivering the hotfix have not reached them yet.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on June 19, 2017, 01:28:06 PM
On that note that actually brings one possibility, a terrorist attack using a virus of some sort. That could be a possibility as luddic pathers do seem to want chaos... Maybe they could be the reason of the gates shutting down because of a virus. But it still wouldn't make much sense as I am sure gates wouldn't work like that. Did the AI war happen before or after the gates shut? Would make more sense if remnants were the cause of the problem. But again I assume it would be a fixable thing. I mean you would expect them to at least have a few guys who would know everything about the gates...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 19, 2017, 03:28:38 PM
That could be a possibility as luddic pathers do seem to want chaos...

Not at all, those who Walk The Path of Ludd simply want to liberate humanity from the machine-Mammon that has twisted us from that image of God in which we were created; to cast off the wrathful devastation of power-mad warlords and the greed of money-mad megacorps buying and selling our very souls; and those would both create artificial daemons that would turn inevitably into machine-mind rulers of a Hell of humanity's own creation. They are - of course - only fighting for what is right and good!

Now you can surrender your technology for holy purging ... unless you are a brainwashed slave of Mammon who would rather die than turn from your evil ways?

Did the AI war happen before or after the gates shut?

Both wars were after the Collapse.

But again I assume it would be a fixable thing. I mean you would expect them to at least have a few guys who would know everything about the gates...

The Domain would hardly let just anyone have that knowledge, and would hardly let anyone with that knowledge use it outside of Domain control. The Gates are the Domain; they are control over communication and movement, they connect all the worlds of Humanity, they are the keystone of galactic civilization!  (...Until they're not.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on June 19, 2017, 03:38:39 PM
e/ ninja'd

Both the AI war and the Luddites are post-collapse, and more-or-less directly caused by it. The Luddic Church formed because after the collapse, which was caused by failing technology, they see technology as a trap to avoid. The AI war started because the lack of Domain oversight after the collapse allowed Tri-Tachyon to develop AIs unrestricted.


I'm kinda hoping that the gates were shut down deliberately by the Domain to stop the spread of... something terrifying. That, eventually, we will encounter :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: isaacssv552 on June 19, 2017, 09:37:31 PM
I always figured it was some sort of mechanical error which cannot be fixed remotely. Core systems could fix their gates manually but a remote colonization sector would have to wait centuries for a repair team. Alternatively, the Gates are fully functional (perhaps shut down by some sort of surge protector?) but no one in the Sector knows where the power switch is.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mealstrom on June 21, 2017, 05:20:02 PM
one question still remains :P Are there more sectors?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 21, 2017, 06:01:42 PM
one question still remains :P Are there more sectors?

Yes. The Persean Sector is the name for what is presumably the largest concentration of human-settled worlds in the locale that happens to be the game's setting, and it is/was but one small piece of the extent of the Domain.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: nomadic_leader on June 21, 2017, 10:12:42 PM
I'm kinda hoping that the gates were shut down deliberately by the Domain to stop the spread of... something terrifying. That, eventually, we will encounter :)

I really hope we never figure out why. The answers are never as interesting as the questions. The "scary thing that we have to shut down gates for" is a sci-fi cliche at this point, cf Expanse, Halo, whatever.

In the end it can only be space zombies, or AIs, or aliens, or whatever. But it's never as scary as not knowing what it was.

Better just to get vague, inconclusive, and ultimately contradictory clues.

But it would be funny if the rest of the domain just succumbed to plain old political folly and committed civilization suicide (sigh) and fell into strife even greater than that in the local sector.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on June 22, 2017, 03:09:53 AM
So you'd rather have no story for fear of it being cliche?

I'd trust David to come up with something interesting, or at least tell it in an interesting way. That's arguably more important than being wholly original.
In any case, the story is just there to frame gameplay, and I think upping the thread level with some Sector-external factor would make for good gameplay.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on June 22, 2017, 03:53:31 AM
So you'd rather have no story for fear of it being cliche?

A story =/= everything must be explained.

Sometimes less is more. A bit of mystique goes a long way to making stories interesting.

I think the core of StarSector's story is that the Sector doesn't have to be falling apart: it has enough resources that it can, if everyone works together, potentially build itself up into a new Domain of Man (assuming the old one is gone). Human nature, however, means that no matter how many iterations of the simulation you run... the Sector is always be doomed.

Introducing an external threat means that the Sector will, if allowed enough time to respond, unite against the common enemy. This basically reverses the undertones of the story, which isn't a bad thing in itself... but I find that in similar stories I tend to enjoy the first part (before the introduction of the external threat) more than the second.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Gothars on June 22, 2017, 04:43:42 AM

I think the core of StarSector's story is that the Sector doesn't have to be falling apart: it has enough resources that it can, if everyone works together, potentially build itself up into a new Domain of Man (assuming the old one is gone). Human nature, however, means that no matter how many iterations of the simulation you run... the Sector is always be doomed.


That's not so much a story but the scenario we already start with. From that, good stories might emerge from gameplay, if that becomes dynamic enough.
But that is still different from a proper written story with an narrative arc. That such a story will shed some light on the calamity is not a necessity, but seems an obvious choice. It is by far the biggest open question, after all.

Introducing an external threat means that the Sector will, if allowed enough time to respond, unite against the common enemy. This basically reverses the undertones of the story, which isn't a bad thing in itself... but I find that in similar stories I tend to enjoy the first part (before the introduction of the external threat) more than the second.

That's only the case if it is indeed a common enemy that so powerful that all the factions have to unite. There are many other possibilities. It is an opportunity to change the rules of the game up to that point.

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 22, 2017, 09:10:52 AM
I probably shouldn't get too deep into my general feelings on mystique/revelation in stories/worldbuilding like in Starsector because it'd constitute some kind of meta-spoiler ... so I won't!

Human nature, however, means that no matter how many iterations of the simulation you run... the Sector is always be doomed.

... However whenever someone says the phrase "human nature" a little red light starts blinking in my brain, I drop everything, and spring to (rhetorical) action!

Man, if the Sector is always doomed due to some inexplicable fallen (biblical implications intended) & unchangeable nature of humanity, that'd be super depressing. I've read stories I felt were just a rumination on (the author's) misanthropy, maybe put through various ideological/aesthetic lenses and oftentimes I don't feel their conclusions are 'earned', albeit with of course concession to the subjectivity of writing and authorial intent being allowed to make emotional statements rather than statements of fact. One story in particular that I felt really earned its ultra-depressing conclusions as the sort of logical result of the scifi conceits being explored was Peter Watts' Blindsight. So ... read that one if you want to feel bad about everything in an interesting way. The setting-conclusion to Reynold's Revelation Space series is arguably pretty depressing, but I'd say quite a lot less so than Blindsight.

But I mean, to back up here to Starsector: the problem is one of resources and conflict. These are political problems. Political problems are negotiable, whether through literal negotiation or use of force, be it giant warfleets or ... other crazy scifi things? These problems involve human? actors/characters and this includes (as this is a game) the player. Given conflict and actors there's potential for a story! Maybe it'll end badly, maybe not.

One thing I feel I can say (because it's on the upcoming features list on fractalsoftworks.com) is that Alex & I have talked for a long time about how to provide a game of Starsector with a conclusion. Details TBD.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Hazard on June 22, 2017, 03:30:47 PM
The setting-conclusion to Reynold's Revelation Space series is arguably pretty depressing, but I'd say quite a lot less so than Blindsight.

Going on a bit of a tangent here, but eh; I always thought the Greenfly and its implications were one big, annoying, cheap asspull to deliberately end it all on a grim and gloomy note. Doom and despair for the sake of doom and despair. I'm not sure how much Reynolds explores or explains the Greenfly in his novellas, since I've only read summaries of them, but based on those and the main books the whole thing just comes so completely out of the left field that I can't help but feel aggravated by it.

Hum, point is probably that Reynolds' writing can be pretty irritating at times, and hopefully Starsector doesn't end in a similar way. Or something.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Deshara on June 22, 2017, 05:40:16 PM
And re the depressing nature of The Sector... there's very little going on in the game that isn't a thing irl
Also, David discussing Blindsight fills me with squee
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: nomadic_leader on June 23, 2017, 12:39:43 PM
About the "collapse," I'll just affirm once again that mysteries are always more interesting than the solutions to those mysteries. This is why Sherlock Holmes always has a cocaine relapse after he solves a case.

Anyway, It's weird that such thoughtful, seemingly humane people like Alex and David made a game that is basically SpaceSyria and contains a pessimistic, even nihilistic view of human nature and political endeavors. Not only that, it particularly encourages the player to engage in endless, brutal aggression without even a pretext of justice. I don't know if it's just the playerbase you've attracted and the way they tend to play the game, but the system seems to glorify and encourage violence (making the game all about bounty hunting) above alternative activities. Like it's always "the heart of the game is combat, you aren't supposed to have too much fun or earn money doing other stuff." And it's not space invaders; they went through the trouble to make a well-realized fictional world; one that's basically evil.

It's one of those situations where creators created something which does not mirror their own beliefs at all. At least I hope it doesn't.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 26, 2017, 02:54:11 PM
Anyway, It's weird that such thoughtful, seemingly humane people like Alex and David made a game that is basically SpaceSyria and contains a pessimistic, even nihilistic view of human nature and political endeavors. Not only that, it particularly encourages the player to engage in endless, brutal aggression without even a pretext of justice. I don't know if it's just the playerbase you've attracted and the way they tend to play the game, but the system seems to glorify and encourage violence (making the game all about bounty hunting) above alternative activities. Like it's always "the heart of the game is combat, you aren't supposed to have too much fun or earn money doing other stuff." And it's not space invaders; they went through the trouble to make a well-realized fictional world; one that's basically evil.

It's one of those situations where creators created something which does not mirror their own beliefs at all. At least I hope it doesn't.

Yeah, uh, this is a really interesting set of issues. To start, I'm pretty sure both Alex and I consider the Persean Sector to be a dystopia. Heh, a thought: like take Star Trek inverted = Starsector.

Speaking more for myself (as we're getting away from Official Statement territory), I hope the world-building makes it clear that the dystopian state of affairs is not a statement about what I think is ideal or inevitable, but more showing the result of a given set of conditions making a disaster really disastrous. In this case, Domain policy which kept its colonies reliant upon its central authority caused the Sector to be ill-equipped to handle the collapse of the Gate system.

As for what the players do .... yeah, you have a good point. The player is rewarded for being pretty awful, in general, though ideally I'd like to aim for a place where the player feels more like a Han Solo figure, though this'll change as the scope of the game changes. And I'd like to add more interactions with people and beliefs in the world, and have the game acknowledge/judge what the player has done for good or ill somehow. (And in a way more sophisticated than adding up good deeds - evil deeds = outcome on table.)
We'll have to see how it pans out in v0.9 and beyond eh?

To be perfectly honest, the ultimate goal of Starsector's worldbuilding is to create a backdrop for a certain set of gameplay mechanics: space combat plus power/wealth accumulation in a manner that gives the player as much personal control over their own fate as possible Because Video Games. This wouldn't work so well in a Star Trek game ( ... though I bet a cool game could be made based around the Maquis in the DS9 timeline). Or imagine an Iain M. Banks: The Culture: The Game; Allocating resources would be a matter of convincing godlike AIs to back your plan. Could be cool! But uh, given the medium and genre conventions, it's a heck of a lot easier to make a combat + numbers accumulation game.

Also: your mention of SpaceSyria is interesting, because both recent geopolitics and not-recent geopolitics/history inform a lot of the inspiration for writing Starsector. And I remember talking to Alex about parsing the Syrian civil war as an example of conflict in Starsector surrounding the Diktat and etc. I will say that nothing is a 1:1 analogy, so I don't encourage people to map Starsector onto Syria. (Though Pathers are a bit ISIS-y, aren't they.)


Related example: I really don't think the makers of Brigador think it's morally acceptable to shoot up cities in a combat mech, but I think they thought it'd sure make a cool video game. Authorial intent can be subtle, but I think one can pick up on approving vs. disapproving portrayal of a setting. I hope!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: nomadic_leader on June 27, 2017, 10:04:15 AM
Thanks for the thoughtful response.


Yeah, uh, this is a really interesting set of issues. To start, I'm pretty sure both Alex and I consider the Persean Sector to be a dystopia. Heh, a thought: like take Star Trek inverted = Starsector.

I love star trek and I really respect (increasingly, these days) its optimism  but it's definitely neat to sometimes be reminded (from the remove of fiction!) that good outcomes are also not inevitable.

Quote
[...] the dystopian state of affairs is not [...] inevitable, [...] Domain policy which kept its colonies reliant upon its central authority caused the Sector to be ill-equipped to handle the collapse of the Gate system.

Basically as a player i only hear good things about the domain. the domain lead to peace and expansion; whereas post-collapse autonomy led to chaos. So the message is: "People become savages when there is no  central authority." This is a trope of zombie movies and reality TV shows (neither of which I credit much). Also, the domain collapse, to the player, is a mysterious "out of context problem," which eclipses the theme of hubristic overreach as a sin leading to the sector's current condition.

But you say that's the opposite of your intended message.

I'd suggest making the domain overreach/hubris a bit more overt. I won't presume to tell you how though!


Quote
[...] The player is rewarded for being pretty awful,[...] I'd like to aim for a place where the player feels more like a Han Solo figure, [...] And I'd like to add more interactions with people and beliefs in the world, and have the game acknowledge/judge what the player has done for good or ill somehow.

I'm glad to see you're moving things in this direction. But Starsector's scope (fleet, rather than individual ship), and the rapidity with which you progres, rules out Han Solo. You quickly become a small but pivotal actor in the sector; more like Histiaeus of Miletus in Herodotus  than Han Solo (have those two have ever shared a sentence before?).

Most players are locked into the bounty trap-- keep getting more cash to supply larger fleets (to fight larger bounties, etc etc). They become mere thugs for one faction or another, but the combat never does anything. The bounty system itself seems disconnected from the dynamic economy; a relic of an earlier version of starsector and an unsubtle mechanism to generate combats.

If the economy worked for trading, if it were possible to create outposts of civilization, if there were more "good" things to do with force, it would help. It might be interesting to apply economic and military force to create truces between factions, etc. Sounds like you have ideas already.

Quote
To be perfectly honest, the ultimate goal of Starsector's worldbuilding is to create a backdrop for a certain set of gameplay mechanics: space combat plus power/wealth accumulation in a manner that gives the player as much personal control over their own fate as possible Because Video Games.

Whatever your intentions at the beginning, starsector is no longer just space combat and wealth accumulation. You've made a dynamic world, a place that feels alive, and outgrown the player base that was just focused on space combat. So it's also about telling a story with that world. The designers have latitude to decide what morality it imparts.

Quote
Also: your mention of SpaceSyria is interesting, [...] (Though Pathers are a bit ISIS-y, aren't they.)

Well the pather ships are green and some have crescents on them, so one does think of Islam.

The whole sector is Syria: A multipolar conflict so total and protracted that everybody  lost absolute moral high-ground; rather some have even lower ground. Long, high-intensity conflict reaches a post-ideological stage where factions can no longer focus on ideology but are consumed only with the administrative and military details of their own perpetuation. That's the sense I get from Starsector.

That said, the game shouldn't say "these are good guys, these are bad guys." It should be up to the player to see the good and bad in any faction, and either decide to support that faction as the best medium for a re-injection of justice into the morally depleted sector, or to go their own way.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: StarSchulz on August 12, 2017, 11:09:04 PM
Lots of very interesting stuff in here. I've just got to ask, with the church / path being anti-tech, what is their stance on medicine? I imagine they would be very against cybernetics, but where do they draw the line between too much / necessary evil there?

Secondary thought is, since they seem so spread out on Tarsettus maybe it wouldn't be as important since disease would have a tougher time spreading?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Althaea on August 19, 2017, 04:28:40 AM
Quoting from the recent blog post...

Quote from: A True and Accurate History of the Persean Sector
c+160 – Andrada defeats Warlord Loke

Much glory earned by the young and upcoming Hegemony officer Andrada in the Battle of Maxios. Hegemony policy promotes hero-worship as means to unify population.

Involved:

  • Warlord Loke
  • Philip Andrada

How far does this hero-worship go and how literal is it, by the way? Is it just that the Hegemony incorporates heroic figures extensively into their propaganda, glorifying them, their successes, and go out of their way to ensure their further successes (by e.g. reallocating higher-quality equipment and more capable personnel to their command)?

Also, do these policies continue into the present day, or has the Hegemony quietly phased such propaganda out of their doctrine?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: isaacssv552 on September 01, 2017, 08:57:05 PM
Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Basically as a player i only hear good things about the domain. the domain lead to peace and expansion; whereas post-collapse autonomy led to chaos. So the message is: "People become savages when there is no central authority." This is a trope of zombie movies and reality TV shows (neither of which I credit much). Also, the domain collapse, to the player, is a mysterious "out of context problem," which eclipses the theme of hubristic overreach as a sin leading to the sector's current condition.
Considering the sector is newly colonized it seems more like a Lord of the Flies type situation. It reminds me of the various IRL colonies which perished in the time between ships arriving from the motherland.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on September 04, 2017, 10:51:53 AM
I know this is getting off-topic, but it's a holiday and I'm overeducated, so:

Fiction, as a rule, is written from a descriptive not prescriptive vantage point - describing a state of affairs in a fictional world isn't automatically a statement of approval, although it can be. You might be able to infer bits and pieces, but in general, people who ask 'so hey, you wrote a murder scene in this story, you do know killing people is wrong, right?' tend to be disingenuous or naive. (That's not a hypothetical example; a friend of mine got that question in a workshop).

There have been a couple of really good books that touch on the appropriateness of children's play and learning; I'm going to quote Peter Gray's 'Free To Learn':

Some people fear that violent play creates violent adults, but in reality the opposite is true. Violence in the adult world leads children, quite properly, to play at violence. How else can they prepare themselves emotionally, intellectually, and physically for reality? It is wrong to think that somehow we can reform the world for the future by controlling children’s play and controlling what they learn. If we want to reform the world, we have to reform the world; children will follow suit. The children must, and will, prepare themselves for the real world to which they must adapt to survive.

More generally, I think the modern world, to the extent that it belongs in this conversation at all, suffers from an excess of people who would like to be told what to do in detail by a higher authority, and thereby abrogate their responsibility for making moral choices and being clear-eyed about the likely results. That's the kind of thinking that leaves us standing over smoking piles of dead bodies, sooner or later. Fiction isn't a programming language for prescriptive morality. It's a tool we use to explore morality, among other things, separated from consequences. I wouldn't sign the Brigador Action Agreement and shoot up Solo Nobre in the real world; I wouldn't be a space pirate if you offered me the chance; I wouldn't want to be trapped inside a test facility with a portal gun, either, but these are enormously fun and interesting game experiences.

And now I'm going to go back to the game of Stellaris where I've used nothing but plantoid pops as a sapient food source to ensure that my galactic space cannibal empire is vegan.

(Personally, I always mapped a lot of Starsector's conflicts to the Yugoslav Wars and the various post-Roman/Hellenistic uglinesses. When a nation or an empire comes apart, especially one that was pretty fractious to begin with, it doesn't take long at all before compounding cycles of violence lead to spasms of incredible destruction. What responsibility the former nation, or empire, has for that is rarely explored.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: cjuicy on September 04, 2017, 01:52:17 PM
(Personally, I always mapped a lot of Starsector's conflicts to the Yugoslav Wars and the various post-Roman/Hellenistic uglinesses. When a nation or an empire comes apart, especially one that was pretty fractious to begin with, it doesn't take long at all before compounding cycles of violence lead to spasms of incredible destruction. What responsibility the former nation, or empire, has for that is rarely explored.)
SPACE GREMLINS!


Spoiler
I mean, it is always midnight in space... right?
[close]
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: nomadic_leader on September 23, 2017, 05:47:07 AM
Fiction, as a rule, is written from a descriptive not prescriptive vantage point

Yes of course. But the author of the fiction, presumably, has something they want to say about a theme, rather than just a chronicle of "stuff that happened to made up people" (then it would just be soap opera). As readers, we can than evaluate that book, and decide if it says something worthwhile, or something that is cliche, homily, sophistry etc.

So authors should make sure the words as written are actually saying what they want to say. Never mind kids playing with sticks, what people say does influence other people. This is often why people want to say things. This is why propaganda exist. This is why Plato goes on about types of music. A nation that reads only Victorian novels will choose a leader different from the nation that watches only reality TV, etc.

In the game designers case, are the mechanics and lore drops they put into game creating the gameplay that tells the story they want to tell? Starsector is clearly trying to say something, so let them say it as well as they can. I saw inconsistencies between what the Starsector authors seem to be trying to say, and what the game actually says.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Vind on October 18, 2017, 11:54:05 AM
I wonder how Mayasura system and Mairaath ended up with Persian League control if Hegemony task force captured the system according to lore blog post.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Drokkath on October 24, 2017, 05:15:52 PM
I've become so distant and jaded of the lore of humanity in almost every game and quite a bit in RL too that I'm pretty much almost like Fane from Divinity Original Sin 2.
To quote Fane:

Spoiler
Fane: "Your history is an interminably dull list of mortals that were born, achieved nothing of worth, and then died.
      
         Certainly one may have expanded his kingdom, or another invented some ways of pickling fish, but what does it matter?

         Where will your kingdoms be in one hundred years? In one thousand? They will all be dust, along with each and every one of your great heroes.

         Your people and nations come and go - mayflies screaming their importance at a universe that cannot listen.

         But the universe is always there. The laws that govern your states change over centuries, but the laws of the world?
[NOPE]"
[close]

I don't mean to be condescending in the least but just like that Fane character, I just naturally see things in a grander scheme of things personally myself. I don't care about politics. I don't care about ruling some civilization. I don't care about running a fleet other than just being a pilot-captain of my own starship and live a peaceful exploring nomadic hermit life instead out there in the depths of space as I treasure peace so much more than war.

Hence partially why I play SS as a rogue element; usually as an alien who doesn't care about which humie in whatever faction got into the misfortune of proverbially barking up a wrong proverbial tree only to be squashed into a glassed pancake by a proverbial sledgehammer with density of about thousand dwarf stars. To call it an overkill is an unprecedented cosmical understatement. :D
I love playing SS that way as I get to rip and tear everything in combat without a moral compass and feel free to be an eldritch, chaos-godly horror to vent my fetid dark emotions and impulses away.


Unlike Fane though. I still care about SS' lore but in a more grander scheme of things as Domain left quite a large amount of tech across the galaxy, from sectors and redacteds to other stranger relics like the gates and planet destroyers. At least ships and their auto-factories in SS are built to last far, far beyond average lifespan of humans.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on October 26, 2017, 08:01:46 AM
I've become so distant and jaded of the lore of humanity in almost every game and quite a bit in RL too that I'm pretty much almost like Fane from Divinity Original Sin 2.
To quote Fane:

Spoiler
Fane: "Your history is an interminably dull list of mortals that were born, achieved nothing of worth, and then died.
       
         Certainly one may have expanded his kingdom, or another invented some ways of pickling fish, but what does it matter?

         Where will your kingdoms be in one hundred years? In one thousand? They will all be dust, along with each and every one of your great heroes.

         Your people and nations come and go - mayflies screaming their importance at a universe that cannot listen.

         But the universe is always there. The laws that govern your states change over centuries, but the laws of the world?
[NOPE]"
[close]
I like Nietzsche's original better

In some remote corner of the universe, poured out and glittering in innumerable solar systems, there once was a star on which clever animals invented knowledge. That was the highest and most mendacious minute of "world history"—yet only a minute. After nature had drawn a few breaths the star grew cold, and the clever animals had to die.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Drokkath on October 26, 2017, 10:22:37 AM
I like Nietzsche's original better

In some remote corner of the universe, poured out and glittering in innumerable solar systems, there once was a star on which clever animals invented knowledge. That was the highest and most mendacious minute of "world history"—yet only a minute. After nature had drawn a few breaths the star grew cold, and the clever animals had to die.

Hence the need to become a space-faring clever animal(s) to avoid death.

BTW, Fane's dialog in the Divinity Original Sin 2 RPG game has much more impact and meaning in the game plus the way he speaks with the player character. It's why I made spaces in-between for every continue or talking further dialog option to get more info out from him. :-\ Merely just clarifying that tidbit. It spoke almost my exact feelings about everything in the grand scheme of things.

That aside, the planet killers got my interest last time I read a bit of lore of SS. I'm not interested in them as a tool to be used but I'm instead interested in what they look like and how they function. Obviously killing a planet doesn't only condemn the people aimed to be annihilated but every single living thing on and in the planet will be rendered dead unless some rock-like and/or crystal-like or an extremely tough organical deep-dwelling lifeform can survive the blast and evolve by finding new ways to adapt to life in space. Not a fan of weapons that can destroy planets except in games as an evil character. Even when I do play as an evil character my moral sense tends to avoid destroying something that took astronomical ages to develop into a stable beauty.

I'm alright with in-game pillaging, looting and invading as it only involves civilized areas the most, surgical strikes aimed into the very infrastructure of some faction's stations and planetary structures. My way of imagining doing stuff whenever I mess with some faction in the game.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SafariJohn on May 09, 2018, 10:25:43 PM
It seems like the entire 200 year timeline of Starsector could easily fit into 50 years. All the debris fields would make more sense, at least.

Maybe it's the "past midnight" talking, but a lot of Starsector lore seems to make more sense in the context of a short timeline.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Troika on November 26, 2018, 12:14:47 AM
Has anyone tried taking apart one of the dead gates?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Deshara on November 26, 2018, 01:28:26 AM
It seems like the entire 200 year timeline of Starsector could easily fit into 50 years. All the debris fields would make more sense, at least.

Maybe it's the "past midnight" talking, but a lot of Starsector lore seems to make more sense in the context of a short timeline.

there are worlds that were empty when the collapse happened and having billions of people now
50 years is too little.
Aaand, if you sit & read thru the Missions tooltips theres a lot of backstory that simply doesn't come up in the campaign
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on November 26, 2018, 12:27:36 PM
there are worlds that were empty when the collapse happened and having billions of people now
50 years is too little.
For that, 200 years is too little. If there were 100 million people when the gates shut down, then reaching a billion with 1% yearly growth rate it would take 232 years. Which would be doable, but would there really be that many people there at the time? We already know many of them have died (Mairaath, Askonian Crisis, all these planet killers) and I doubt there was that many of them in the first place. Maybe one day there's going to be logical, concise timeline.

On a side note, isn't it weird how Hegemony doesn't really lose anything? It comes into the sector, captures half the colonies, then kinda loses both AI wars less than the other side, prevents Askonia from joining Persean League (kinda), they took over Mayasura (kinda)... They never lost THEIR stuff, at least not for nothing.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on November 26, 2018, 01:32:22 PM
At least in the old lore, part of the Hegemony's strength was that they actually had core worlds (which in the new lore would be industrial Chicomoztoc, farming Jangala and cultural Eventide). Tri-Tachyon has Culann star forge and... that's about it, Eochu Bres isn't much of a powerhouse. The League sort-of has what the Hegemony has (industrial Kazeron, farming Mazalot and ?cultural Fikenhild) except not quite as good, plus the League bickers amongst themselves when they're not facing an external threat. The Luddics and the Sindrians are... well, they're the Luddics and the Sindrians.

So I don't find it weird that the Hegemony loses less than others. I also think they've lost plenty: Askonia is a definite backfire for the Hegemony, Mayasura was a tactical win but their goal was to glass Mairaath so it can't be used against them which wasn't (entirely) successful (presumably due to Persean intervention), making it a strategic loss; Naraka and even Aztlan were hit in the AI Wars (with on-going consequences), and some of the devastated systems (Tia-Ta'xet, Yma-Warawara) could well be Hegemony-controlled systems beforehand.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Deshara on November 26, 2018, 02:04:58 PM
there are worlds that were empty when the collapse happened and having billions of people now
50 years is too little.
For that, 200 years is too little. If there were 100 million people when the gates shut down, then reaching a billion with 1% yearly growth rate it would take 232 years. Which would be doable, but would there really be that many people there at the time? We already know many of them have died (Mairaath, Askonian Crisis, all these planet killers) and I doubt there was that many of them in the first place. Maybe one day there's going to be logical, concise timeline.

current IRL birthrates are inversely tied to people's access to healthcare & education. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that a lot of the systems that kept the Domain's birth rates stable
Spoiler
(and IRL birth rates rn (fun fact global human population growth has already been stopped (it'll grow until the post-WW2 populations have died off & been replaced by generations who didn't go thru/are the direct descendants of devastated populations, but after that the human race won't grow anymore for the foreseeable future))
[close]
were completely lost in the Collapse & resulted in a population explosion as the infrastructure that stabilized population growth were rebuilt locally
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on December 23, 2018, 05:49:53 AM
Is Starsector lore moving away from mastery/core/expansion terms because it has changed, or just out of human convenience (i.e. nobody is ever able to remember low tech is mastery)?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on December 23, 2018, 07:34:01 AM
Is Starsector lore moving away from mastery/core/expansion terms because it has changed, or just out of human convenience (i.e. nobody is ever able to remember low tech is mastery)?

I don't think I've ever used the terms in anything I've written as they didn't really fit how I thought of things. Nor have I made any big effort to remove it from the text (if any mention remains; I'm not totally sure). That said, I'm happy for for it to be the terminology of some fringe historian who releases hours-long ramblings about THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE DOMAIN on TriTube.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on December 23, 2018, 07:51:34 AM
[sample text meant to circumvent the issue when you get logged out in the middle of typing a message]
(if any mention remains; I'm not totally sure)
Tempest, Hurricane and Telepylus station still mention Expansion epoch, but that's about it.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on January 10, 2019, 04:14:08 AM
Do comm relays allow real-time communication between systems?

Gameplay-wise, in previous versions the message latency could be up to several days, but in 0.9 it seems instant...
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: L2m on January 12, 2019, 01:38:07 PM
Hi, can anyone tell me the origin/idea/lore of the names of the celestial bodies (like Jangala, Tibicena, Magec) sitting in the core sector? Just out of interest because wanna do some write up. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Vayra on January 12, 2019, 06:28:10 PM
Is Starsector lore moving away from mastery/core/expansion terms because it has changed, or just out of human convenience (i.e. nobody is ever able to remember low tech is mastery)?

I don't think I've ever used the terms in anything I've written as they didn't really fit how I thought of things. Nor have I made any big effort to remove it from the text (if any mention remains; I'm not totally sure). That said, I'm happy for for it to be the terminology of some fringe historian who releases hours-long ramblings about THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE DOMAIN on TriTube.

The sense I get from the "current" lore is that while the epochs still exist as ages of Domain history, they're no longer so explicitly linked to tech levels.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on January 12, 2019, 06:37:35 PM
Hi, can anyone tell me the origin/idea/lore of the names of the celestial bodies (like Jangala, Tibicena, Magec) sitting in the core sector? Just out of interest because wanna do some write up. Thanks in advance!

harrumph had a excellent writeup here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10326.0), although it's pre-League.
Quick addenda: Westernesse's system and planet names come from the King Horn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Horn) romance. Kazeron is a corruption of "cast iron" (explanation (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2017/02/21/building-better-worlds/)).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Mr. Nobody on January 17, 2019, 06:50:01 AM
I don't think this has been asked yet, or if it was, no answer was ever provided.

"What is flux exactly?"
Is it just a fancy word for "heat" and when i press "v" on my keyboard i'm just dumping off hot coolant into space?
Is it a physical substance? What are it's properties, beside causing your ship to look like one of those plasma ball lamps for a while when you have too much of it? In fact, why does it makes your ship to act like that? Why has nobody (well, except in a mod, from Dark Revenant i think) tried to use it as ammo or other stuff?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on January 17, 2019, 11:56:38 AM
For what it's worth, in veeeery early builds flux was inverted and called "energy" instead. In some old code the variable names even reflect this :) IIRC - and since it's been a while, it's a bit hazy - I ended up flipping it around because it made more in-fiction sense for causing overloads due to shield damage, and for the venting mechanic.
Flux is a crutch.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: goduranus on April 08, 2019, 12:43:32 AM
I got a question, so have people in the sector tried send expeditions to slowboat back to the domain via hyperspace? I think there would surely be more self sustaining sectors elsewhere that hadn't collapsed. What happened to those?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: lechibang on April 12, 2019, 10:14:37 AM
Probably the game haven't touched any of those sectors yet and just the Persean Sector. Who knows, maybe some exploration by the Domain of Man were successful, whereas other ended up horribly wrong or downright failed when the Gates collapsed
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on June 21, 2019, 09:40:33 AM
How common are planetkillers? Is it like WWII, where only a couple of nations have only a couple of them, or more like the Cold War, where there are hundreds or event thousands of them around? Or perhaps even worse, since everybody and their mother owns an autofactory.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 22, 2019, 07:06:19 AM
How common are planetkillers? Is it like WWII, where only a couple of nations have only a couple of them, or more like the Cold War, where there are hundreds or event thousands of them around? Or perhaps even worse, since everybody and their mother owns an autofactory.

Let's call it on the rare side. I would say that there is no (known) autofactory production and very limited stock. ... Some of which might also be unknown due to Domain armament distribution at the time of the Collapse also being unknown.

The XIVth definitely had a handful, at least one of which was used on Opis and, probably, one on Hanan Pacha. Tri-Tachyon got their hands on at least one PK during the course of the AI wars.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on June 22, 2019, 07:21:00 AM
Thanks! I was wondering mostly due to the Opis incident. I mean, who brings a nuke along for a peace making operation?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on June 22, 2019, 10:56:03 AM
Thanks! I was wondering mostly due to the Opis incident. I mean, who brings a nuke along for a peace making operation?

Admiral Philip Andrada, that's who!
... I recall now that additional details of why exactly this made sense at the time is in my own notes and not in the game itself as-such. Well, we'll flesh out more of this backstory type of thing in the future, for sure.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Stevo on August 11, 2019, 04:45:28 AM
Hey, so I have a question. The Gates, why haven't they been salvaged yet? Are they considered universally sacred, or are they somehow too durable and strong to be broken down? I feel it may be the latter as when you pass through one the bridge is 'silent'.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: runetrantor on August 14, 2019, 08:43:59 AM
I assume they dont have any resource that is THAT desperately needed and that you cant find elsewhere.

Plus even if not religious, I imagine many still rather keep them, be it to study them in hopes of figuring out how to fix them someday, or a 'what if' that just as they suddenly shut down, someday they will turn on again.

If so, then all of the Domain reforms and whoops, the idiots at the Persean Sector scuttled all their gates 'for reasons'.

Maybe if a nation had an interest in isolating itself from a theoretical Domain return, because their policies are not in line or something.

Barring all that, I would see them as monuments personally. 
That's how I interpret the 'silent crossing thing, less of religious reverence (After all, the only shown religion says the Gates are literally the greatest sin. I am more shocked why the Pathers havent terrorist bombed them yet), but rather a moment of remembrance for the longe gone golden age of mankind.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Kat on August 24, 2019, 12:45:28 PM
Came across something interesting/disturbing today, and it made me think about a few things.

You sometimes find cryo pods in salvage, and they can contain crew or officers. I've also found cryopods on decivilised worlds, containing planetary administrators  ???

And of course there's the Domain cryosleeper colony ships.

So, how long can people survive in cryo pods, or life pods ? How do the currently-manufactured cryo systems compare to Domain-era tech ? Are life pods and sleeper pods the same thing ?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Ragebrew on August 27, 2019, 07:28:14 AM
Came across something interesting/disturbing today, and it made me think about a few things.

You sometimes find cryo pods in salvage, and they can contain crew or officers. I've also found cryopods on decivilised worlds, containing planetary administrators  ???

And of course there's the Domain cryosleeper colony ships.

So, how long can people survive in cryo pods, or life pods ? How do the currently-manufactured cryo systems compare to Domain-era tech ? Are life pods and sleeper pods the same thing ?

I figure they can remain in a sleeper pod so long as there is power to maintain it. And I also assume lifepods are sleeper pods, since it's a lot easier to keep someone on ice instead of having to keep them fed, watered and aired for however long they are in space.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: 33k7 on August 27, 2019, 08:04:28 PM
I've been looking around for a little bit and have read through most of this thread I was just wondering is there a thread devoted to the AI Wars,  Askonia Crisis Etc.

 I've read through the A True and Accurate History of the Persean Sector and the backgrounds on most of the planets in game. just wondering if there's anything else?

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: 33k7 on August 28, 2019, 09:15:39 PM
a few questions about the world

average human lifespan is it better than 79 current General human lifespan

is there any popular sports is basketball, baseball soccer and football still a thing

do large Capital ships have Hydroponics areas similar to the USG Ishimura's internal farm in Dead Space

curious if there is recreational activities for your crew a gym to workout in movies TV series video games Etc.

what type of foods do people eat kind of curious what you think the majority of people eat. besides the blue lobster and are there actually regular Lobster. 

a few questions about the faction leaders

Phillp Andrada
how old is he at start of game
does he have a family
does he have a second-in-command / emergency successor

Artemisia sun
how old is She at start of game
when did she initially become CEO
does she have a family

Baikal Daud
how old is he at start of game
when did he become High Hegemon
how many High Hegemons have there been
does he have a family
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on August 29, 2019, 08:15:25 AM
I'll answer a few of these as well as I can.

  • average human lifespan is it better than 79 current General human lifespan
  • do large Capital ships have Hydroponics areas similar to the USG Ishimura's internal farm in Dead Space
  • curious if there is recreational activities for your crew a gym to workout in movies TV series video games Etc. 
  • what type of foods do people eat kind of curious what you think the majority of people eat.
  • besides the blue lobster and are there actually regular Lobster. 
  • Phillp Andrada
    how old is he at start of game
    does he have a family
    does he have a second-in-command / emergency successor

Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: 33k7 on August 29, 2019, 10:12:40 AM
thank you for answering my question so quickly

the game is awesome and the history behind it makes it even more interesting to me I look forward to Future updates. :)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Kat on August 29, 2019, 11:03:50 AM
In the Magec system, there's the pirate station "Kanta's Den", and Kanta herself is described as "nearly 200 years old".

So, some people can expect to live a lot longer than 79. The average person probably not so much. And in some of the hive cities described in other star systems, life expectancy is probably a lot shorter.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Althaea on August 29, 2019, 12:02:29 PM
  • what type of foods do people eat kind of curious what you think the majority of people eat.

  • Food on ships would tend to be pretty basic fare intended for very long shelf-life. (And I had some notion of growing high-protein genmod fungus in vats but not sure if I slipped that into a description anywhere.)

While I don't think the details are really spelled out anywhere, it's worth noting that most stations, ships and even planets in the sector do not grow their own food. (There are lots of inhabited planets in the core, but very few of them are conventionally "habitable".)

If the description of the "food" commodity item in the game is indicative, that implies that the vast majority of food is made with a long shelf-life in mind. Commercially produced food is largely certified to have a minimum shelf life of five years. Also, you can loot perfectly good food off of derelicts. If this is to be taken as canonical and not merely for the sake of having more varied loot, this indicates that "five years" is a lower bound, not an upper one.

If this food resembles anything we are familiar with today - which seems likely given the existence of "bread basket" worlds -, it would resemble the stuff used in military, survival and emergency rations. This could indicate a surprising variety in terms of ingredients and taste, though the distinctions in texture and shape of the food wouldn't be as varied, as I'm guessing it would usually be heavily processed and chopped into small chunks. Most people in the sector are more likely to be accustomed to dried apple and banana chips as opposed to the fresh fruit. Chocolate preserves really well and can be consumed in various ways and is probably the most common treat in the sector.

Meat is probably a rarity, and David said as much already. We know Volturnian lobsters are a delicacy across the sector, but they're presumably far too expensive for the average person or family to afford, except maybe on special occasions. So most protein for most people probably comes from pulses and beans, with nuts being another useful source.

As far as drinks go... We know (from the descriptions of bars in Tri-Tach space) that rich people drink fancy cocktails, still. Beyond that, ordinary alcohol (particularly in distilled forms similar to moonshine, made from potatoes or rice or some other widely-eaten staple crop), tea, and coffee are probably all widely available. Dairy products might exist but would probably be uncommon for the same reason meat is - if anyone's adding creamer to their coffee, it's probably made from oats or soy or something like that. Ice cream? Probably made from rice. It's probably a safe rule of thumb that any kind of animal product is most commonly replaced with a purely plant-based substitute.

Fresh produce (such as aforementioned fresh apples and bananas), fluffy bread, dairy etc. could be a lot more accessible on the breadbasket planets. Since those are controlled by the Luddites, that might well be a large part of the Luddic appeal.

This is all speculation, of course, but that's the kind of feel I get from the world of the game as has been presented to us so far? It's two-hundred years after the Collapse. Terraforming isn't really a thing people do anymore, and probably most people spend their entire lives in pressurized rooms.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: 33k7 on August 29, 2019, 04:06:59 PM
I think traditional Farms like on earth now is a rarity probably only existing for the ruling class I wouldn't be surprised if a steak actually cost 10,000 credits. but I do think meat is probably available especially pork. at the same time grazing animals are probably very rare if they exist at all cows, sheep and goats are the most likely to exist since they are General farm animals Gilead is probably the only core world that can support a decent population of them.
and considering who runs the planet advanced technology is probably not used to help increase population growth.

factory farms for pigs and chickens I can see being cost-effective they both can eat almost anything and can reproduce quickly as well as grow up quickly. but this would be a luxury good still even with this.

I think most of the pork and chicken would be put into other food products to increase protein in them. chicken and pork broth is most likely the closest the majority of people in the sector have gotten to actual tasting chicken and pork. considering both chicken and pork broth meet the standard Dominion shelf life.

Swine by-products are also important parts of products such as water filters, insulation, rubber, antifreeze, certain plastics, floor waxes, crayons, chalk, adhesives and fertilizer

Lard is fat from pig abdomens and is used in shaving creams, soaps, make-up, baked goods and other foods.

Poultry feathers -  can they be used for Pillow stuffing, Diapers,
Insulation, Upholstery, padding, Paper, Plastics and Feather meal/fertilizer

it's really interesting thinking about how mankind will expand throughout the Stars and what animals we might bring with us from old Earth.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on August 30, 2019, 04:30:43 AM
Why grow feet, eyeballs, etc. when you can just grow the primo chunk of meat in a vat? If meat is a luxury, real meat taken from a whole animal is even more. (Though the Luddics would opt for more traditional means.)

And then, why grow chickens or fish to grind up when you can grow much more efficient crickets or brine shrimp to grind up? (Related: I never quite understood why they were grossed out by the roach cubes in "Snowpiercer" considering the past cannibalism.) And, in general, it is more energy efficient to go lower down the food chain. Why grow a pig when you could grow high protein mush - derived in some convoluted way from soy, mold, insects, and some clever bacteria - in a rack of cylinders exposed to sunlight? Press it into bricks and you've got Spacer's Friend 'Blast-Off' Nutritional Replacement Bars: "guaranteed to sustain life in the lifeless void we call home"

If living beings can be used as a series of chemical reactors for different products, then I imagine the toolset at hand has been honed, if you will, in the Persean Sector. (& I like the idea that it would make us a bit uncomfortable to consider how lifeforms and living patterns would be adapted from a standpoint of efficacy.)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: mco on August 30, 2019, 08:40:28 AM
Hey hey folks, i'd like to know more about Luddic Path ideology for my playthrough.
I skimmed the thread and didn't find much unfortunately.

Basically the biggest question is where would they put a line between "necessary evil" technologies required for survival and absolutely haram ones?
Do they follow the stupid terrorist cliché or they can stretch their ideology because they will eventually realise they're not winning with their existing strategy?
I know that in islam for example you can commit what would be considered a minor sin if it's a life or death situation, because otherwise it would be suicide - which is a greater sin.
Would Pathers think the same? For example, would a Pather colony be fine with building orbital works? Because the alternative is flying in 5 D-mod lashers, which is basically suicide. Assuming you use your ordnance only against enemies of Ludd, of course. What about your own fuel production? It's not like it grows on trees, the only alternative is buying from your enemies thus funding them. And why they don't like refining, it's basically turning ores into metals, a technology thousands of years old.
I understand that AI cores and high tech ships are a big no-no. What about midline ships, are they considered too technologically advanced?
What about tech mining, assuming i keep the supplies and guns, give in AI cores and sell blueprints to pirates to destabilize the sector? Would that be fine? Or the planet with ruins is forever tainted? I think cleaning the ruins is actually kind of a cleansing of a planet.
By the way, why is LP neutral to pirates? For practical reasons(like they're both outcasts and agreed to use each others bases for resupply) or ideological(they don't use high tech and destabilize the sector)


Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SonnaBanana on September 06, 2019, 10:38:25 PM
How well could an Alpha Core crack DRM?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on September 16, 2019, 10:48:12 AM
            I don't think food is going to be so bad. Creating farm habitats in space is something we could do already with present day tools, assuming we had infrastructure in space, which folks in Starsector certainly do have. Creating fertile earth and breathable air is also just a matter of time and resources, not technology. Just break apart some carbon and ice asteroids, scoop some nitrogen from the atmosphere of whatever planet, stir it all in a rotating cylinder with some hardy microbes and wait for it to become fertile enough for plants. Even if we ignore the space habitats route, we still have to note that there exist multiple planets that can be dedicated entirely to food production. Making enough food is not an issue.

            Herbivore domestic animals, while becoming relatively less important, will most likely still exist. People can eat some parts of plants, but not all. The remaining parts can be composted, or they can be fed to farm animals. The latter part will still provide compost later (after manure has been processed) and what is useful is that it has different properties to plant waste, so there might be some demand for it in the future. The second reason you want actual animals is milk. Well, maybe want, maybe not; it's hard (for me) to say if "animal milk" is meaningfully different from "plant milk". Presumably it might remain viable to some extent as traditional or luxurious alternative to mass-produced and cheap plant milk. The third reason is meat and most of reasoning is the same as for milk, though with the caveat that we still don't know how viable cultured meat will be. The possibilities range from "so bad, you don't want to eat meat at all" to "genuinely better at everything, except for the inedible parts". For Starsector, I'd like to shoot somewhere in the middle. Regular people can eat animal meat as often, as they did in the ages before industrialisation.

            What I would really like for Starsector lore to do, though, is abandon this generic "we will eat mystery sludge in the future!" route for more DRM magic. Imagine if it got to the point, where there are oversized vending machine abominations in place of restaurants that grow, prepare and serve the food, all in one. Not just any food, though, only the special, corporate-approved McSpace McBurgers and McSpace McFries. Or Agricultural Intellect's finest vegetable and cheese Rye Rolls! So many foods, conveniently available anywhere... With the only caveat that various food companies own them all and they are quite protective of their designs. And that people got so used to them, they forgot how to prepare some (or even most!) of these foods on their own. And that various blueprints after the collapse might have been lost, so certain automated restaurants or vending rooms are irreplaceable and quite valuable, even if they are nothing special. And people are too busy fighting to fix all this stuff. And those companies that made those designs might not have made them... Completely free of side effects, for whatever the reason. Or that current factions do that. Suddenly, having a cow or a tree you can't just hack seems more appealing.

I feel this is more interesting take on food scarcity.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SonnaBanana on September 16, 2019, 09:45:35 PM
-snip-

I feel this is more interesting take on food scarcity.
Interesting and lore compliant both.
Also got idea for suggestion from this.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: goduranus on September 22, 2019, 07:44:39 PM
How well could an Alpha Core crack DRM?

yeah, they should be intelligent enough to reverse engineer ships and stuff right? Or maybe they know all the blueprints all along.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: runetrantor on September 26, 2019, 06:34:31 PM
Given we use a gamma core to crack FTL quirks in the tutorial, that are stated to take years if not using a core, I feel even a gamma would not even notice the DRM was there as it moved through.

An alpha would remake the game to avoid the DRM if it feels like it and it would be a weekend hobby.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: SCC on September 27, 2019, 03:01:43 AM
Who is to say that it wasn't another alpha core that designed the DRMs?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: goduranus on September 27, 2019, 06:48:29 AM
Who is to say that it wasn't another alpha core that designed the DRMs?

Mind Blown :o
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: runetrantor on September 30, 2019, 12:44:58 PM
Given the lore states that blueprints are literally impossible to copy, and thus supply of them is mighty limited, probably yeah.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: 33k7 on October 13, 2019, 08:46:48 PM
I have a question for you

I don't know how familiar you are with other alien races from other Sci-Fi games, TV series  and stuff but

it looks like they're more advanced than the Mass Effect universe

an it seem to be less advanced than the Asgard from Stargate

 I'm a little curious what level of Technology you give your universe
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: David on October 14, 2019, 01:31:12 PM
I have a question for you

I don't know how familiar you are with other alien races from other Sci-Fi games, TV series  and stuff but

it looks like they're more advanced than the Mass Effect universe

an it seem to be less advanced than the Asgard from Stargate

 I'm a little curious what level of Technology you give your universe

I, uh, have almost no experience with either of those settings. So: no idea!

But (and this one is the creative cheat), technology exists that supports whatever the mood and gameplay requires. I'm also into the Gibsonian idea that distribution of technology is highly unequal and also that extremely advanced technology requires a large social infrastructure to be created and maintained. These principles give you the core conflicts of Starsector (which, in turn, supports a narrative of gameplay which involves lots of combat because that's what the game is designed to be about).
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: goduranus on October 14, 2019, 05:43:22 PM
I'm a little curious what level of Technology you give your universe

Some of the older discussions say the level of technology is most similar with that of Warhammer 40k.

***

Question : How can stations have a battle support range, and how can one station cover a whole planet with no blind spots? I have a theory that "stations" are actually have reaction engines that lets them move around quite a bit, and reposition for defense, but they are set apart from "ships" by the virtue of not having a "drive field" that lets them move at a significant fraction of light speed.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Embolism on October 14, 2019, 08:58:43 PM
I'm a little curious what level of Technology you give your universe

Some of the older discussions say the level of technology is most similar with that of Warhammer 40k.

***

Question : How can stations have a battle support range, and how can one station cover a whole planet with no blind spots? I have a theory that "stations" are actually have reaction engines that lets them move around quite a bit, and reposition for defense, but they are set apart from "ships" by the virtue of not having a "drive field" that lets them move at a significant fraction of light speed.

Given that stations also act as civilian space ports... I highly doubt they'd be whizzing out of orbit to join battles. But all stations require thrusters for station-keeping, so moving to a different orbit shouldn't be difficult.

Ground operations require you to park your fleet in a geostationary orbit. Assuming stations are not, catching to a no-good geostationary fleet is easy with some station-keeping: the ISS orbits the Earth every 90 minutes or so. Presumably stations have long enough range to strike at anything that isn't on the 'dark' side of the planet, and even if they are an orbital kinetic/missle strike on another orbital fleet is not out of the question.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: Histidine on October 15, 2019, 04:19:11 AM
The station battle join range represents the friendly fleet running to the station's cover.
There'll be cases where the battle joining mechanic fails to model the implications of this correctly, but I think in 0.9.1 the main one (enemy fleet is weaker than player, but stronger if station is added, so it avoids engagement if the player declines to approach the station) works as it should.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: goduranus on October 15, 2019, 12:34:21 PM
Q: What exactly is supplies, and why does so much of it get consumed to recover CR? Why do unmanned ships eat as much supplies as ships with hundreds of crew?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: BringerofBabies on October 15, 2019, 01:07:33 PM
Q: What exactly is supplies, and why does so much of it get consumed to recover CR? Why do unmanned ships eat as much supplies as ships with hundreds of crew?

Supplies are an abstraction of everything you need to keep a ship and its crew active - rations, spare parts, ammunition.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: goduranus on October 15, 2019, 11:26:34 PM
Maybe the reaction mass for thrusters is lumped together with supplies instead of fuel? Maybe that’s why so much of it gets used up, and so much are used for combat. Where as antimatter fuel is the stuff that powers hyperspace travel, but not gor conventional thrusters.
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: 33k7 on December 11, 2019, 10:02:25 AM
since we're in the holiday season I thought I'd ask this question Luddic Church, Tri-Tachyon, Hegemony, Sindrian Diktat and Persean League still celebrate New Year's Day national holidays and whatnot just a little curious it also would be funny if a patrol stop you and after searching your ship cargo  wish you a happy Phoenix day or something
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: TheWanderingDumbass on December 11, 2019, 03:06:30 PM
Does anyone know how to make astropoli anymore in the Persean sector?
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: 33k7 on December 13, 2019, 03:01:31 PM
did you just make an account to insult me damn I feel special ;)
Title: Re: The Lore Corner
Post by: TheWanderingDumbass on December 13, 2019, 05:04:10 PM
Lol. Nah.

Just been intending to ask that question and decided to do so.