Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dri on May 04, 2012, 08:56:11 PM

Title: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Dri on May 04, 2012, 08:56:11 PM
Poll says it all really. I for one would like at least 2 alien races - one mysterious and menacing while the second would be neutral at first but eventually you could ally with them and gain their ship blueprints/weapons and even recruit some officers from them and crew that give different bonuses than human crew.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Catra on May 04, 2012, 09:40:29 PM
i'm more or less convinced that the domain has already curbstomped all other sentient / semi sentient / could be sentient beings in their region of space, and if there is anything still out there, i don't think they would dare launch into space ever again.

plus its good to have a space game not centred around "human survival vs species X", but rather looking into " human survival vs eachother."
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: D0vahkiin on May 05, 2012, 01:43:42 AM
I don't think there should be any Alien factions or anything, because the Domain. But what I do think there should be, some mysterious Aliens that don't make contact, only observe. Or only Aliens that pass by the sector, likely refugee fleets or something like that, searching for a new home. An alien horde that devours entire sectors could be an interesting late game event.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: vagyr on May 05, 2012, 01:49:36 AM
I would hate to see "yet another aliens evil humans band together to survive" game...
aliens that are sentient and are just there sure. But preferably just humans and the interactions between different human factions
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: PCCL on May 05, 2012, 02:22:10 AM
agreed...

just human politics and survival in space is nice and refreshing

plus the grim lore really feels more natural with just humans.... aliens kinda cheapens the whole premise imo
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: hadesian on May 05, 2012, 03:20:06 AM
I don't think there should be any Alien factions or anything, because the Domain. But what I do think there should be, some mysterious Aliens that don't make contact, only observe. Or only Aliens that pass by the sector, likely refugee fleets or something like that, searching for a new home. An alien horde that devours entire sectors could be an interesting late game event.
If you read the Onslaught's entry, I believe it mentions it was made to fight a non human race in a long forgotten war.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Aleskander on May 05, 2012, 04:37:48 AM
I really wouldn't like aliens, but if they were put in, I think that the last option would be the best.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Zani on May 05, 2012, 05:20:23 AM
Maybe it could be like pre-WW2 China, where there was a power trying to wipe out another, slightly weaker power who wanted to team up and take out the invaders (Japan). Maybe the Hegemony want to band together with the Tri-Tachyeon to fight the Aliens but they are more occupied with being the strongest power in the sector?
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Upgradecap on May 05, 2012, 06:28:07 AM
Maybe it could be like pre-WW2 China, where there was a power trying to wipe out another, slightly weaker power who wanted to team up and take out the invaders (Japan). Maybe the Hegemony want to band together with the Tri-Tachyeon to fight the Aliens but they are more occupied with being the strongest power in the sector?

This is exactly one of the things I don't want. It would make the game look like its about mankind surviving aliens than what it really is: humans trying to gain more power in a dark age.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: naufrago on May 05, 2012, 07:09:35 AM
If there were aliens in Starfarer, I feel that they would be on par with the humans or weaker. The Domain pretty much crushed any alien threats, so in the absence of the Domain or any other large, organized opposition, some of them may have experienced a resurgence. However, my guess is that they would be much less common than humans. It's doubtful that their technology would be any more advanced than Tri-Tachyon's and more likely on par with the Hegemony's technology... or even lower. My guess is mid- to low-tech for the most part, but with high-tech in particular areas.

I can particularly imagine an alien race that invested heavily in phasing technology and weapons that can be fired while cloaked/phased, but due to specialization are weaker in most other ways. If their primary enemy was the Domain, which had an overwhelming military and vast resources at its disposal, then the only way to win would be to avoid a fight or use guerilla tactics; cloaking technology plays into that well. With the Domain out of the way, they may try to put a more significant foothold into the galaxy. However, their presence would probably be relatively small and their technology, with the exception of their specialty, would be more or less on par with the human factions'.

Just look at the following picture posted on the blog, at the ship between the Venture and the Falcon. When you look at that ship, tell me that doesn't scream "alien cruiser that cloaks."

Spoiler
(http://fractalsoftworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ship_sheet.jpg)
[close]

As for their disposition, they probably wouldn't be particularly friendly, taking a real *** from humanity for a long time (decades, at least). And, smelling weakness, they might want to push for dominance. On the other hand, living under constant pressure, they may just be weary of fighting and want peace so they can just settle, expand, and grow as a civilization. Maybe both. Either way, they'd probably be wary of any humans, especially since humans (and pirates in particular) might still see the aliens as an enemy, or source of useful technology and territory to be claimed.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Upgradecap on May 05, 2012, 07:15:32 AM
With that ship there probably will be some sort of alien faction.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Doom101 on May 05, 2012, 07:19:32 AM
i want to say either that ship was scrapped along with those massive dram tankers, OR its the phase ship. the submarine type stealth ship alex talked about a few times.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Upgradecap on May 05, 2012, 07:21:53 AM
i want to say either that ship was scrapped along with those massive dram tankers, OR its the phase ship. the submarine type stealth ship alex talked about a few times.

Wait those dram tankers where scrapped? Why?
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Doom101 on May 05, 2012, 07:26:18 AM
i want to say either that ship was scrapped along with those massive dram tankers, OR its the phase ship. the submarine type stealth ship alex talked about a few times.

Wait those dram tankers where scrapped? Why?

well i could be wrong but i just feel like those aren't going to be in the game but for the "alien" ship i absolutely believe that is the phase ship or a design that probably won't end up being used.

also how outdated is that pic?

the conquest is called the Manticore class battlecruiser

the apogee is called the Helios-class
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: naufrago on May 05, 2012, 07:54:52 AM
also how outdated is that pic?

the conquest is called the Manticore class battlecruiser

the apogee is called the Helios-class

http://fractalsoftworks.com/2011/12/12/the-armada/ (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2011/12/12/the-armada/)

So, December, 2011.

At this point, anything is just rampant speculation. *shrug* Just puttin' in my 2¢.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Doom101 on May 05, 2012, 08:06:23 AM
also how outdated is that pic?

the conquest is called the Manticore class battlecruiser

the apogee is called the Helios-class

http://fractalsoftworks.com/2011/12/12/the-armada/ (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2011/12/12/the-armada/)

So, December, 2011.

At this point, anything is just rampant speculation. *shrug* Just puttin' in my 2¢.

indeed, much rampant speculation must occur, then alex will smite all the incorrect ideas with the next release (however long that takes)
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: hadesian on May 05, 2012, 08:17:58 AM
i want to say either that ship was scrapped along with those massive dram tankers, OR its the phase ship. the submarine type stealth ship alex talked about a few times.

Wait those dram tankers where scrapped? Why?
They're not amongst the other ship image files, but I HIGHLY doubt they would kill them. Big fleets will drink up a lot of fuel quickly, so those tankers will exist. (And if they didn't, I doubt the Venture, Gemini, Condor or Tarsus would still exist). We know there are phase ships (BTW, the biggest one - anyone else look at that and realize it's sort of an Aurora flipped with phase generators?) so probably they'll do that, but my guess is that ship is probably an ultra high tech version of the two high tech cruisers (so like a hyperion?)

I personally believe that as they have said you'll be finding relics across the systems, we're looking at an extinct alien race with ships you can repair and use in your fleet :D
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Kommodore Krieg on May 05, 2012, 10:31:22 AM
I like it with just humans, but a horror/deep space alien, like the aliens from Alien would be fine too. I think just humans is nice for a change though.  Although,

If there were aliens in Starfarer, I feel that they would be on par with the humans or weaker. The Domain pretty much crushed any alien threats, so in the absence of the Domain or any other large, organized opposition, some of them may have experienced a resurgence. However, my guess is that they would be much less common than humans. It's doubtful that their technology would be any more advanced than Tri-Tachyon's and more likely on par with the Hegemony's technology... or even lower. My guess is mid- to low-tech for the most part, but with high-tech in particular areas.

Low tech aliens subsisting after being crushed by the Domain in the past would be interesting too.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: PCCL on May 05, 2012, 02:10:35 PM
¢

ZOMG how did you make that?
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: BillyRueben on May 05, 2012, 03:43:42 PM
Boo for space aliens. It doesn't fit the feel of the game. It's kinda like developers trying to shoehorn zombies in to every game, it just doesn't work right.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Emailformygames on May 05, 2012, 03:47:06 PM
¢

ZOMG how did you make that?

¢

http://www.ehow.com/how_4700738_type-cent-symbol-computer.html
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: naufrago on May 05, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
¢

ZOMG how did you make that?

¢

http://www.ehow.com/how_4700738_type-cent-symbol-computer.html

There's also the more expensive option of buying a mac and pressing alt-4 (the key with a dollar sign). Yes, if ever there were a reason to get a mac, it's the ability to easily type special characters without memorizing a ton of alt-#### combinations.

And since I'd hate to derail this thread... uh... aliens. If done right, I'm okay with 'em, but it's rare for a space game to have humans as the sole sentient race. The novelty of it could be nice. Same with space monsters.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 05, 2012, 05:49:06 PM
I'd kind of like the aliens (if there are any) to be hostile, like in Ender's Game. They aren't hostile because they hate humanity, but that they cannot understand us. I think that Ender's Game took such an interesting approach to aliens. They are always portrayed as little barbaric green men, when in fact, they could be philosophical, but also able to relate to us on some level. Slightly off topic, I also think that the ethical questions that the buggers of Ender's Game raised were very cool. You get so detached because of all of the spaceships, but in reality, we have all killed thousands of tiny virtual men. Boom. Brain fried.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Archduke Astro on May 05, 2012, 06:24:56 PM
I'd kind of like the aliens (if there are any) to be hostile, like in Ender's Game. They aren't hostile because they hate humanity, but that they cannot understand us. I think that Ender's Game took such an interesting approach to aliens. They are always portrayed as little barbaric green men, when in fact, they could be philosophical, but also able to relate to us on some level.

Card's fiction is a good starting point for this line of reasoning, but it certainly doesn't end there. You want truly alien aliens? Try reading some of the science fiction of Stanislaw Lem, most especially Fiasco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiasco_%28novel%29) and Eden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_%28novel%29). (links do include spoilers!) According to Lem, mutual incomprehension is the rock upon which deep-space hopes and ambitions will crack apart.

Fiasco is almost more like a philosophical horror story than science fiction, being centered upon a brilliantly executed but also bleakly existential viewpoint. It's one of the most thought-provoking but disturbing works of fiction I've ever read, and even nearly a quarter-century later it's still one of my all-time favorite novels.

You get so detached because of all of the spaceships, but in reality, we have all killed thousands of tiny virtual men. Boom. Brain fried.

Indeed so. Even when fighting other humans, we already dehumanize them. I don't see that getting any better if the target is crewed by biologically non-human entities.

[modern-day doublethink]
We don't sink ships. We just prosecute targets and neutralize tonnage.
[/modern-day doublethink]
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 05, 2012, 06:27:05 PM
Quote
Indeed so. Even when fighting other humans, we already dehumanize them. I don't see that getting any better if the target is crewed by biologically non-human entities.

So are wasp wings a valid target?
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Archduke Astro on May 05, 2012, 06:31:51 PM
Quote
Indeed so. Even when fighting other humans, we already dehumanize them. I don't see that getting any better if the target is crewed by biologically non-human entities.

So are wasp wings a valid target?

If you don't have a handicap of believing that a bucketful of chips and hard drives within a Wasp interceptor is sentient or even alive in any way then blast away, my good sir.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Master Jedi on May 05, 2012, 08:01:18 PM
I like the idea of aliens, I don't get why we can't have a more serious space game and aliens at the same time. I don't like it in Sci-fi when there are super advanced evil aliens that attack for no reason. Especially horror type aliens, there just not interesting to me. So I would say ether aliens that are a separate faction (or just part of the existing factions), or just humans.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on May 05, 2012, 08:03:27 PM
i want to say either that ship was scrapped along with those massive dram tankers, OR its the phase ship. the submarine type stealth ship alex talked about a few times.

He's scrapping the giant Drams? NOOOOO!
I wanted to make a giant fleet of fuel ships,
and then go around blowing the crap out of everyone. :D

[EDIT] By suicidal means, of course.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Psycho Society on May 05, 2012, 09:10:37 PM
Aliens are an interesting topic in most science fiction. Frequently you see two kinds of aliens. There's the kind are essentially human but are a different color or shape, usually based off a stereotype of a human culture. Humanity has a war with these guys, but eventually we become pals. Then we have the true alien, whose origins are vague and to whose motives and behavior we can't relate, and from whom there is no quarter given. You see this kind of thing everywhere. Halo, Freespace, Mass effect. The latter kind of Alien is much more interesting. I don't think having friendly blue alien buddies really brings anything interesting to the table and in Starfarer's case, I believe could cheapen the experience.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: armoredcookie on May 05, 2012, 09:12:09 PM
I doubt Aliens should be in Vanilla gameplay, but I'm open for having it in a mod.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Psycho Society on May 05, 2012, 09:18:15 PM
Alex has said something about that, actually.

Spoiler
There will be some sort of dangerous life form associated with the dimension from which infernium is harvested.
[close]
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: DSMK2 on May 05, 2012, 09:50:52 PM
I'd go with either the space wildlife and/or random civilized alien, but not too early in the game's development; I'd rather see them (the civilized sort) if I ever decide to leave human space, or at the very least "unlock" them through some specific quest chain that brings us to a long awaited (for some in the SF-verse) first contact.

Space wildlife reminds me of Earth and Beyond, but given the vastness of space, they're bound to be highly localized, or slowly migratory (why would they migrate anyways?). We'd need to write up a BS but fun to hear/write about space-faring creature biology. Do they live off of minerals? Do they filter feed space dust? There are various extremophiles on Earth as it is!

On the side of civilized aliens, it's gonna end up as humans with a different body structure; given the various ships we have already, it'll be hard to create specialized ships without losing balance, as well as unique weapons and equipment that sets them apart from humans without being too "special". Now that I recall reading a sci-fi space opera novel... Alien ships can go three ways: Visually "extreme", design "extreme, and ability "extreme". However if the ships/equipment problem can't be avoided, it'll always boil down to the aliens somehow having a (hopefully not) a monoculture to present to a player i.e. "WE ARE A WARLIKE RACE, ALL OF US WOULD LIKE YOUR HEAD SKEWERED ON OUR TROPHY PIKES".
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Hopelessnoob on May 05, 2012, 10:10:42 PM
Nope aliens take away from the world gone to crap. Especially friendly aliens. Maybe as an 11th hour boss fight like say you've established yourself, have a lot of forces and then killer aliens come to kick ass and put you in your place again.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: frag971 on May 06, 2012, 08:26:17 AM
I think a random type alien would be awesome, like you never know if they ignore you or attack you. So instead of saying "Friendly" or "Hostile" just say "Unknown" and you never know if they attack or not. Also boarding them costs alot of marines and when their ships explode they do alot more damage in a bigger area, something to make them different...
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Hyph_K31 on May 06, 2012, 08:35:38 AM
"WE ARE A WARLIKE RACE, ALL OF US WOULD LIKE YOUR HEAD SKEWERED ON OUR TROPHY PIKES".

Was I the only one who read that with a daleks voice?
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Dri on May 06, 2012, 10:01:17 AM
Well, it does seem the majority either want no aliens at all or just alien lifeforms like monsters or simply alien flora/fauna.

But, I suppose there can be a pretty massive difference between human factions. How does Sins of a Solar Empire do it? Isn't there like two human factions in the game but they are vastly different? I think I remember one of the factions got into experimenting with taboo drugs and gene modification and were banished for hundreds of years - when they returned they seemed pretty alien.

So I guess I'd be cool with a few human factions that were REALLY different due to drugs or gene mods.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Jonlissla on May 06, 2012, 11:39:07 AM
So I guess I'd be cool with a few human factions that were REALLY different due to drugs or gene mods.

I don't think there's any reason to go that far with the lore. Having only "normal" humans makes it more immersive, especially considering the setting which is rather grim.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: DSMK2 on May 06, 2012, 12:21:42 PM
Heh, instead of (sentient) aliens being enemies or allies, why not turn them into stealthy space bigfoots that are generally impossible to catch without modded ships? Mysterious fleets that randomly come into human space, but actively avoid everyone, they merely monitor goings on in human systems. That will put in the presence of aliens(?), but won't make them as big players, but rather as easter eggs of some sort.

Background tidbits.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Hardlyjoking67 on May 06, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
That's a cool idea, but then I think that aliens would fall into the same stereotype of being entirely unknown to us. I think that aliens should provide a deep meaning. I can't stop thinking about the buggers in Ender's Game. They have a hive mind which is directed by the queen. They love the queen, but only because they can only communicate through here. So to them, the queen represents the entirety of the hive and for that, they love her. Also just a quick tidbit on what I think ship design would look like. If the aliens did share that hive mind, then I think that their ships would look as though they were made out of one object because by sharing their hive mind, they are instantly able to see the bigger picture and create the exact part that is needed from them with the expectation that the other workers will also know what is needed of them.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Catra on May 06, 2012, 01:19:49 PM
So I guess I'd be cool with a few human factions that were REALLY different due to drugs or gene mods.

I don't think there's any reason to go that far with the lore. Having only "normal" humans makes it more immersive, especially considering the setting which is rather grim.

the setting alone is reason enough to let the lore go that far into humanity's own self destructive / self preservation / fulfillment of desire extremes, the only real block is if alex is ok with exploring those murkier and darker themes.
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Durog25 on May 06, 2012, 02:25:06 PM
Well I for one would very much like to see some aliens. It would make sense (well, to me) the Domain exterminated all aliens found so aliens would've kept their distance. But now with the Hegemony and Tri-Tachyon in a power grab it would be cool to have some alien cultures attempt some form of contact.

  Perhaps there is another economic giant/ interstellar corporation who see the TT as an economic rival and so go to war with them/ raid them, but see the Hegemony as no threat or as a stabilising influence and so are attempting negotiations but they aren't going too well (this would give the player a chance to help with negotiations if they so choose).

It is essential however that any alien faction(s) brought in are as dynamic and deep as the TT or hegemony. If there is another alien faction out there they might be as diverse as humanity is.

Their technology should be different, still similar to what we have in the game now but with interesting twists e.g. a high explosive weapon which travels slowly, passes through shields but can be shot down by point defences. (Or something that makes the tech interesting yet familiar). Maybe they could have extra strong shields but really weak armour or no shields and energy resistant armour (energy weapons do 50% less damage). 

Also make their ships have different focuses which the TT and Hegemony wouldn't be focusing on due to their arms race with each other. e.g. One alien race may have no ships designed to deal with fighters (because they don't use them) but heir cruisers are nearly as powerful as a capital ship in fire-power or shield strength (punch above their weight).

Wow this is getting long. Well I hope I've added something to the debate. Loving the game so far. :D
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: hadesian on May 06, 2012, 03:15:04 PM
Maybe, like real life, aliens have infiltrated the highest parts of society, which would explain how the tri tach have access to such advanced tech...

CONSPIRACY THEORIES
Title: Re: Do you want aliens? Enigmatic, evil, friendly? Poll.
Post by: Aleskander on May 06, 2012, 06:05:09 PM
Maybe, like real life, aliens have infiltrated the highest parts of society, which would explain how the tri tach have access to such advanced tech...

CONSPIRACY THEORIES
Aliens have done that IRL
I would like to have some place in my life alien-free