Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 04:15:27 AM

Title: Cursed builds
Post by: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 04:15:27 AM: I've been a bit bored so I tried to come up with some truly ''wrong'' builds that can still work. Obviously these can't compete with the optimal ones, so don't start with ''well if you replace x with y the build can be a lot better''. The whole point is having fun and giving the meta a middle finger.

WARNING: The following images may be shocking for some, open at your own risk!
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/hE6UIvB.png)
The Battlecarrier Astral - Note how even with only Talons, Astral lacks OP to do anything decent
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Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/DicPJOP.png)
The Aurora Wannabe Eagle - A cheaper alternative of the mighty destroyer crusher
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Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iJy89Jp.png)
The Lawnmower Conquest - Say goodbye to those pesky fighters and missile clouds
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Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/fJ7XAuI.png)
The REAL Burst Paragon - When you just can't seem to find those Plasma Cannons
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Feel free to post your own abominations
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: FooF on June 22, 2020, 06:05:40 AM: The vents vs. capacitors thing you got going on is what's infuriating me the most. Like, the HB Eagle: you have SO but you didn't max Vents? Same thing with the Paragon. You've got 36 Vents (not maxed) but do have a Flux Distributor? Nails on a chalkboard.

The Astral made me chuckle, not because of the Talons but because of the side-mounted Cyclones. Watching the Astral try to use those would be...comical ;)

The Conquest doesn't bother me that much. It's very sub-optimal but it would perform anti-fighter very well!

I don't have a screenshot but just think about it:

Doom...with all beams. :D
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Igncom1 on June 22, 2020, 06:07:19 AM: Dat progression.

The first is how many of us wish carriers could work!

The second is in my opinion a not truly awful build. Just wish HB weren't as flux hot as a large energy, without any of the bonuses of being a better gun.

That third is pushing it as I've never been a fan of those big flak guns, even if on paper they should be really good.

The forth is awful. You got me.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 06:25:49 AM: Quote from: FooF on June 22, 2020, 06:05:40 AM
The vents vs. capacitors thing you got going on is what's infuriating me the most. Like, the HB Eagle: you have SO but you didn't max Vents? Same thing with the Paragon. You've got 36 Vents (not maxed) but do have a Flux Distributor? Nails on a chalkboard.
Eagle is a good kiter, with SO it's even harder to catch. So I'd rather have enough caps to be able to actually kill something and then back out without being overloaded.

Yeah with Paragon I was left with some extra OP so I thought why not get 20 more vents with the hullmod. In order to max out vents AND have flux distributor I'd have to leave something out. And honestly you're gonna be always active venting with this so RFC makes a far bigger difference than 10 extra vents or so. Again, these are my cursed builds, nails on a chalkboard was the thing I was trying to achieve so mission accomplished I guess hahaha.

Doom with all beams doesn't even sound that horrible. I use Phase lances and Burst PD anyway so you're just losing missiles, but mines make up for them quite nicely.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: FooF on June 22, 2020, 06:31:54 AM: Quote from: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 06:25:49 AM
Doom with all beams doesn't even sound that horrible. I use Phase lances and Burst PD anyway so you're just losing missiles, but mines make up for them quite nicely.

I'm talking Gravitons and Tacs... }:^D>
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: DubTre6 on June 22, 2020, 09:36:19 AM: Quote from: FooF on June 22, 2020, 06:31:54 AM
Quote from: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 06:25:49 AM
Doom with all beams doesn't even sound that horrible. I use Phase lances and Burst PD anyway so you're just losing missiles, but mines make up for them quite nicely.

I'm talking Gravitons and Tacs... }:^D>

A Doom with *wait for it* Salamanders and Pulse Lasers >:D
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: ANGRYABOUTELVES on June 22, 2020, 10:14:26 AM: The Eagle seems to have forgotten its Heavy Machine Guns. That's not a cursed build, it's just a suboptimal SO Eagle. 3 HMG 2 Heavy Blaster 1 Ion Pulser works very well.

The Conquest build would work even better if you changed the Heavy Burst Lasers for Heavy Blasters. HBLs are bad and you already have more than enough PD.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: ubuntufreakdragon on June 22, 2020, 10:17:52 AM: Try a Safety Overwrites Heron with mining drones and pure antimatter blaster equipment.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Morrokain on June 22, 2020, 10:40:56 AM: Ouch yeah I can really see the Astral hurting for OP here. Judging by this you could go pure Mining Pod and would still have to remove one of the 25 cost hullmods to fill out all its weapons with anything above tier one- let alone anything decent. I kind of want to try that out now in the simulator. *Goes to do that*

Is the Resistant Flux Conduits just for the extra dissipation? Seems to me the 360 shield means you could potentially skip that one - though AI shield flickering will still let shots through from time to time since the shield takes a bit to fully raise.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: intrinsic_parity on June 22, 2020, 10:48:07 AM: It is kinda crazy that if the astral uses super cheap fighters and very basic hull mods, it can still only use half its weapon mounts with pretty basic weapons.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 10:48:43 AM: Quote from: Morrokain on June 22, 2020, 10:40:56 AM
Is the Resistant Flux Conduits just for the extra dissipation? Seems to me the 360 shield means you could potentially skip that one - though AI shield flickering will still let shots through from time to time since the shield takes a bit to fully raise.
I like RFCs on player ships in general since it helps so much with venting. EMP resistance is just cherry on top. Besides, 15 OP for a capital hullmod is pretty cheap.

@ANGRYABOUTELVES
In the second sentence I wrote:
Quote
Obviously these can't compete with the optimal ones, so don't start with ''well if you replace x with y the build can be a lot better''

EDIT:
@intrinsic_parity
Megas and me have been claiming that ever since the fighter rework, yet no one understood it since ''haha overpowered system''. But it has OP closer to a heavy cruiser rather than a capital considering all the weapon mounts it has. Nerf the system and give it actual options by buffing OPs
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Mondaymonkey on June 22, 2020, 10:55:42 AM: AO aurora. Sometimes it's even can kill something. But usually enemies dies from laugh.
(https://i.imgur.com/VuH8LXe.png)
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Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 11:09:56 AM: That made me sad because I've seen some people unironically use beam Auroras and swear that they actually perform well.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Mondaymonkey on June 22, 2020, 11:17:02 AM: It is perform well. That is almost immortal ship (because of shield, mobility and weapon range), especially with cautious captain. It can distract half of enemy fleet, while you kill another half. And survive this. I really mean it.

Problem is: who needs that 30DP distraction?

EDIT: typo.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Morrokain on June 22, 2020, 11:29:31 AM: Quote from: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 10:48:43 AM
I like RFCs on player ships in general since it helps so much with venting. EMP resistance is just cherry on top. Besides, 15 OP for a capital hullmod is pretty cheap.

That makes sense.

Quote
EDIT:
@intrinsic_parity
Megas and me have been claiming that ever since the fighter rework, yet no one understood it since ''haha overpowered system''. But it has OP closer to a heavy cruiser rather than a capital considering all the weapon mounts it has. Nerf the system and give it actual options by buffing OPs

Not sure how good this is, really, but I can consistently kill sim dominators without taking any hull damage and get the stock conquest down to half hull with:

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/TGUwb8M.png)
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It actually fights toe to toe with the conquest... until it runs out of sabots... XD

I tried a similar build with mining pods and higher max flux but the talon is waaay better.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 11:35:36 AM: I mean anything with Sabots will do great in simulator duels. Until it runs out of Sabots. It doesn't say much except that Sabots are stupidly strong.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Mondaymonkey on June 22, 2020, 11:38:56 AM: RFC is useful in player's hand. Extremely cheap for what it do.

I like it on my flagship Paragon. Full flux venting is 3 (!) seconds. Usually it able to vent and rise shields back before those pesky torpedoes hit it. Not good for long fights, but exactly what you need for intense brawling!
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: pedro1_1 on June 22, 2020, 11:42:58 AM: When you got few weapons and no hullmods / Odyssey
(https://i.imgur.com/eXECrDw.png)
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Edit: added "and no hullmods" to spoiler name
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Morrokain on June 22, 2020, 11:53:09 AM: Quote from: Grievous69 on June 22, 2020, 11:35:36 AM
I mean anything with Sabots will do great in simulator duels. Until it runs out of Sabots. It doesn't say much except that Sabots are stupidly strong.

Yeah true. But it can also reliably beat dominators with harpoons instead of sabots (even when not a single harpoon actually lands, heh). It might take armor damage in that scenario but typically no hull damage.

The build won't do anything to a conquest with harpoons equipped though. :D
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Goumindong on June 22, 2020, 12:39:23 PM: Quote from: pedro1_1 on June 22, 2020, 11:42:58 AM
When you got few weapons / Odyssey
(https://i.imgur.com/eXECrDw.png)
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You have 50 vents and a flux distributor (70 OP of vents) that you arent using. There are plenty of other options you could fit reasonably even if none of them are guns
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Megas on June 22, 2020, 01:31:51 PM: Re: Odyssey
This is exactly what I meant with stupid (non-Sabot) high-tech builds (few guns, all flux, various hullmods). Replace autopulse with plasma cannons and few other minor things, and it is close to Odyssey I would pilot.

If I do not use Sabots on Aurora, it would be just two heavy blasters, few burst PD, and the rest of the OP sunk into flux and shields.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Goumindong on June 22, 2020, 01:41:47 PM: Quote from: Megas on June 22, 2020, 01:31:51 PM
Re: Odyssey
This is exactly what I meant with stupid (non-Sabot) high-tech builds (few guns, all flux, various hullmods). Replace autopulse with plasma cannons and few other minor things, and it is close to Odyssey I would pilot.

If I do not use Sabots on Aurora, it would be just two heavy blasters, few burst PD, and the rest of the OP sunk into flux and shields.
The point was not to be optimal and the poster said its something you would fly if you didn't have access to weapons you wanted.

Which it is. Its just that its got 1650 dissipation with 760 max usage. Spending 70 OP in order to clear its flux a bit faster when it has nothing to spend it on anyway and plenty of spare to wait for it to go down. 70 OP would buy you an OP center and Efficiency Overhaul with 25 OP left over. Still not optimal but also not actively intentionally bad
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Terethall on June 22, 2020, 02:15:19 PM: Quote from: pedro1_1 on June 22, 2020, 11:42:58 AM
When you got few weapons / Odyssey
(https://i.imgur.com/eXECrDw.png)
[close]
This build demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding, or a willful ignorance, of flux dissipation and opportunity cost when it was posted on the subreddit, and it continues to do so now.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Megas on June 22, 2020, 02:56:27 PM: Quote from: Goumindong on June 22, 2020, 01:41:47 PM
The point was not to be optimal and the poster said its something you would fly if you didn't have access to weapons you wanted.

Which it is. Its just that its got 1650 dissipation with 760 max usage. Spending 70 OP in order to clear its flux a bit faster when it has nothing to spend it on anyway and plenty of spare to wait for it to go down. 70 OP would buy you an OP center and Efficiency Overhaul with 25 OP left over. Still not optimal but also not actively intentionally bad
I know that. My point was that so-called cursed Odyseey is close to optimal to begin with. All I would do is replace autopulse and Magazines with plasma cannons, Wasps with something better, maybe take out Auxiliary Thrusters. (I would add Hardened Shields and maybe more beam PD too.) It is just minor changes from functional to optimal, at least as a playership.

Also, notice most mounts on that Odyssey are empty. That Odyssey is nearly unarmed, and it looks stupid! Yet... if it had plasma cannons instead of Autopulse, and few minor tweaks, it would be an optimal Odyssey playership loadout. (I tried more classic loadouts bristling with weapons, but Odyssey cannot win shootouts well, but if I try that "cursed" Odyssey with plasma cannons, it will outgun enemy battleships.)

That non-missile high-tech ships (with no Sabots) are best served with few main guns and most mounts are empty, while flux and shields are min-maxed, is what I dislike about high-tech ships with no ballistic mounts.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: pedro1_1 on June 22, 2020, 03:10:19 PM: Quote from: Terethall on June 22, 2020, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: pedro1_1 on June 22, 2020, 11:42:58 AM
When you got few weapons / Odyssey
(https://i.imgur.com/eXECrDw.png)
[close]
This build demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding, or a willful ignorance, of flux dissipation and opportunity cost when it was posted on the subreddit, and it continues to do so now.

Or that I'm 3 hours in the campain and did not find any good weapons and no hull mods to use, which is the case
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: shrek_luigi on June 22, 2020, 05:18:55 PM: these loadouts are not cursed, they are a blessing
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Daynen on June 22, 2020, 05:35:22 PM: So THIS is how it feels to be "triggered..."

*looooooong inhale*

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!!!!!

I'll be okay; I just...need a minute.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: Aereto on June 22, 2020, 06:48:40 PM: Quote from: pedro1_1 on June 22, 2020, 11:42:58 AM
When you got few weapons / Odyssey
(https://i.imgur.com/eXECrDw.png)
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Never mind the Odyssey, it's the Buffalo Mk III I am looking it.
Title: Re: Cursed builds
Post by: SapphireSage on June 23, 2020, 10:34:05 AM: For the people pointing out that the Odyssey has far more dissipation than max flux usage, keep in mind that displayed weapon flux stat is based off sustained firing rather than burst firing (eg. firing Autopulse on Reload rather than full ROF) so it tends to undershoot a ton when using bursty clip based weapons. In fact, his dissipation is only 400 over firing one of those autopulses full-time, and with expanded magazines they're firing it for awhile. With two autopulses and that dissipation, they could choose to alternate firing one of those autopulses full time and maintain shields for better sustain or fire both for alpha. I'd say its a pretty decent build if there really is nothing else and with no learnable hullmods.