Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Blog Posts => Topic started by: Alex on April 11, 2020, 10:27:50 AM

Title: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 11, 2020, 10:27:50 AM
Blog post here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2020/04/11/gif-roundup/).
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Thaago on April 11, 2020, 10:59:11 AM
These look like glorious [Redacted] fun!

That poor Enforcer firing its flaks at the red orb (a type of missile under the hood?) and then overloading on one hit... next time I'm building an Enforcer I'm definitely including ablative crew Talons in a makeshift hanger to crash into intercept those balls of glowing death.

With regards to player access to highly powerful weapons: Tartiflette (I'm pretty sure?) implemented an 'interference' mechanic on some of his weapons for Seeker, where if you have more than 1 installed on a ship they start to degrade the ship's stats. Something akin to that could help if you are worried about a player getting access to too many of them.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 11, 2020, 11:16:54 AM
That poor Enforcer firing its flaks at the red orb (a type of missile under the hood?) and then overloading on one hit... next time I'm building an Enforcer I'm definitely including ablative crew Talons in a makeshift hanger to crash into intercept those balls of glowing death.

(Yeah, it's a missile.)

With regards to player access to highly powerful weapons: Tartiflette (I'm pretty sure?) implemented an 'interference' mechanic on some of his weapons for Seeker, where if you have more than 1 installed on a ship they start to degrade the ship's stats. Something akin to that could help if you are worried about a player getting access to too many of them.

Hmm, interesting! I like the idea a lot; not sure if it's necessary here, but certainly something to keep in mind in case just limiting access proves insufficient.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Jackundor on April 11, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
As a Warhammer 40,000 fan i can only say one thing after seeing those gifs
DEMONIC INCURSION DETECTED, CALL THE INQUISITION!!!
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Eji1700 on April 11, 2020, 12:08:01 PM
I think my favorite thing about these is that they're clearly different from normal weapons.  Nearly every weapon in the base game is pretty straightforward.  Explosions, projectiles, and lasers being 99% of the arsenal.  These are still basically the same, in usage, but the effects aren't just "more" but different enough to really feel like you're just toying around with fallen empire tech and nowhere near its peak.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Grievous69 on April 11, 2020, 12:18:27 PM
I think my favorite thing about these is that they're clearly different from normal weapons.
Yup same thing. Looking at those fancy effects back when they were shown on Twitter I really wondered if any of those will be on sale somewhere like the usual weapons, but just more rare. And I don't know why but that ice ''flamethrower'' looks so damn sexy, definitely my favourite of the bunch. Btw I like the Paragon tag at the bottom, this is a clear message that Alex is annoyed so many players just spam Paragons.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 11, 2020, 12:44:57 PM
As a Warhammer 40,000 fan i can only say one thing after seeing those gifs
DEMONIC INCURSION DETECTED, CALL THE INQUISITION!!!

Hmm. Perhaps not entirely unwarranted.


I think my favorite thing about these is that they're clearly different from normal weapons.  Nearly every weapon in the base game is pretty straightforward.  Explosions, projectiles, and lasers being 99% of the arsenal.  These are still basically the same, in usage, but the effects aren't just "more" but different enough to really feel like you're just toying around with fallen empire tech and nowhere near its peak.
Yup same thing. Looking at those fancy effects back when they were shown on Twitter I really wondered if any of those will be on sale somewhere like the usual weapons, but just more rare. And I don't know why but that ice ''flamethrower'' looks so damn sexy, definitely my favourite of the bunch. Btw I like the Paragon tag at the bottom, this is a clear message that Alex is annoyed so many players just spam Paragons.

Thank you - I'm really happy this comes across! Was very much aiming for something "different".

(And, yeah, the flamer! Have to admit I'm very pleased with that one, myself. It, let's say, exceeded expectations.)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: HELMUT on April 11, 2020, 01:56:56 PM
I really like the black smoke effect on those missiles and that... Lightning smoke launcher thing. It feels like the kind of weapon that shouldn't be possible, and somehow here it is. Encountering it for the first time is gonna be a quite freaky experience.

I also concur with Thaago about those weapons. Yes, they'll technically be difficult to obtain, but once the player get a few of those and a Paragon, they're set for the rest of the game and there's no reason to change. The Seeker solution isn't a bad idea to prevent this, i guess it'll depend on how powerful and practical those weird guns are.

As a Warhammer 40,000 fan i can only say one thing after seeing those gifs
DEMONIC INCURSION DETECTED, CALL THE INQUISITION!!!

Hmm. Perhaps not entirely unwarranted.

Courtesy of emwattnot :

Spoiler
(https://i.redd.it/zjk8pdh6ywv31.jpg)
[close]



Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: SCC on April 11, 2020, 02:24:00 PM
You already are set for game, if you have got a Paragon. Once Alex puts some time pressure on us, we will see if it's actually worthwhile to try and get those toys.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 11, 2020, 02:37:22 PM
I really like the black smoke effect on those missiles and that... Lightning smoke launcher thing. It feels like the kind of weapon that shouldn't be possible, and somehow here it is. Encountering it for the first time is gonna be a quite freaky experience.

:D

I also concur with Thaago about those weapons. Yes, they'll technically be difficult to obtain, but once the player get a few of those and a Paragon, they're set for the rest of the game and there's no reason to change. The Seeker solution isn't a bad idea to prevent this, i guess it'll depend on how powerful and practical those weird guns are.

In a sense, a higher OP cost is basically "interference". If you have a bunch of high-priced weapons on one hull, the hull is worse than it would otherwise be - if those OP were spent on vents, caps, and hullmods. So it feels like OP could still be a reasonable balancing lever here.

Courtesy of emwattnot :

Ah yeah, actually seen that one :)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Megas on April 11, 2020, 02:50:01 PM
I also concur with Thaago about those weapons. Yes, they'll technically be difficult to obtain, but once the player get a few of those and a Paragon, they're set for the rest of the game and there's no reason to change. The Seeker solution isn't a bad idea to prevent this, i guess it'll depend on how powerful and practical those weird guns are.

In a sense, a higher OP cost is basically "interference". If you have a bunch of high-priced weapons on one hull, the hull is worse than it would otherwise be - if those OP were spent on vents, caps, and hullmods. So it feels like OP could still be a reasonable balancing lever here.
If they are anything like Knights' Templar weapons, then the extra OP cost will still be worth it.  It just means the ships skimp on the luxury mounts and hullmods, and/or encourage unbalanced loadouts like unarmed carriers with premium fighters and hullmods or some high tech ships (like Aurora or Odyssey) with two big guns, a ton of flux, and almost nothing else.

That purple beam with secondary black snakes or crawlers looks like an enhanced tachyon lance.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Eji1700 on April 11, 2020, 04:27:46 PM
Personally i've been hoping for a little more than OP to balance the weapons in general for the obvious reasons. I don't mind ragtag junk fleet, but I'd like to at least feel somewhat rewarded for staying in theme.

Having certain hulls work better with some weapons (like a more elegant/general conquest buff, but perhaps to firing rate or something) to represent the idea that it's more "compatible" seems like a decent idea.

Of course you could just do it with hull mods as well, and then maybe discount those for tech compatibility.   Something like you can fire the "black hole tac lance" thing on any ship that's got the slot and the OP for it, however it only "bounces" once.  Add the right hull mod though and it does whats in the gif?

None of this feels quite right (a little on the nose or reskinning already existing features) but I'm hoping we get something along these lines, besides story points, to maybe get away from the "Build a paragon and end the universe" linear path we've got right now. 

Naturally you can deviate for flavor but there's several hulls that are just better than the rest, and it might be more fun to let a pilot who wants to spend enough time hunting down the right stuff to bring other ships up to those levels rather than just limiting them.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Megas on April 11, 2020, 04:54:51 PM
Personally i've been hoping for a little more than OP to balance the weapons in general for the obvious reasons. I don't mind ragtag junk fleet, but I'd like to at least feel somewhat rewarded for staying in theme.
I hope that unbalanced (and ugly) loadouts like unarmed carriers or one big gun gunships are not rewarded even more.  They are kind of rewarded too much already.

Not sure how I would feel if the weapons turn out to be the best and can be farmed like Sparks.  (Either I dislike it or I feel glee abusing overpowered tools for flawless victories, not sure which side I would fall on to.)  It may play like Knights Templar.  Get harder early difficulty spike against overpowered enemies, survive and steal their overpowered stuff, then crush late game opposition even more easily than before thanks to more power (and you likely exploit it better than AI).
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: ahrenjb on April 11, 2020, 05:32:50 PM
Strong conjoiner cache weapon vibes here, is someone an Alastair Reynolds fan?
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 11, 2020, 05:57:39 PM
Balance-wise, I'm sure these will get another pass at some point. Flux costs are generally high enough that also making them highly inefficient could prove to be too much, but, well. It definitely needs more playtesting from the player side of things at some point.

@Eji1700: hmm. It seems to me that, if anything, having some high-powered weapons would incentivize using more mobile platforms. Or at least wouldn't comparatively favor using e.g. the Paragon. So I don't think this is specifically an issue related to these weapons. And, there are the skill changes to consider, which should make smaller ships somewhat more appealing overall.

Strong conjoiner cache weapon vibes here, is someone an Alastair Reynolds fan?

Excellent :D Very much intentional!

(Yes, both myself and David.)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Kesh on April 11, 2020, 07:37:28 PM
Sooo... Is there a time that we can expect the next release??? Really really excited for this!
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: FooF on April 11, 2020, 07:38:25 PM
Good post!

I'll echo some of the earlier comments that the new weapon effects give off a totally different vibe than current. Some of the mod weapons tend to be over-the-top in order to distinguish themselves but these effects are interesting without being obtrusive.

I've said it before but these GIFs showcase a more "arcane" side of SS that what we're used to. It's always felt like hard sci-fi but these new weapons appear almost magical. Obligatory "sufficiently advanced technology" quote here, but the visuals would fit just as well in a Diablo game. Learning what the heck is sporting these weapons, or why they're in the Sector at all should be fun.

Regarding balancing these kind of weapons:

If these kind of weapons are indeed "super" weapons in the same vein as the Knights Templar, their OP and flux cost were prohibitively expensive on anything on non-Templar ships. I don't know if these new weapons are "native" to a new kind of enemy type but if they are, an inherent hull mod on those ships that give some sort of OP/Flux reduction could be in order. That way you balance around player-use but the endgame ships in question are just flat-out better with them. That probably ups the difficulty some but we're talking endgame, right?

If you can answer, it would appear to me that most of these weapons do more than just damage. Many of them have a side-effect (or perhaps even the primary effect is some kind of disruption). Are you hoping that traditional strategies won't work against these kind of weapons (forcing the player to learn/adapt) or do you think it would be "unfun" for a player to get to the endgame and then everything they've learned/built up until that point sort of gets nullified? (Of course, the player would probably get introduced to the new weapons in controlled doses throughout the game so it doesn't come completely out of left field, but you get my point...)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 11, 2020, 08:39:26 PM
I've said it before but these GIFs showcase a more "arcane" side of SS that what we're used to. It's always felt like hard sci-fi but these new weapons appear almost magical. Obligatory "sufficiently advanced technology" quote here, but the visuals would fit just as well in a Diablo game. Learning what the heck is sporting these weapons, or why they're in the Sector at all should be fun.

<insert dire hints here>

I'll just say, yeah, this is very much intended, and (as I've probably said already) I'm glad these come across like that.

If these kind of weapons are indeed "super" weapons in the same vein as the Knights Templar, their OP and flux cost were prohibitively expensive on anything on non-Templar ships. I don't know if these new weapons are "native" to a new kind of enemy type but if they are, an inherent hull mod on those ships that give some sort of OP/Flux reduction could be in order. That way you balance around player-use but the endgame ships in question are just flat-out better with them. That probably ups the difficulty some but we're talking endgame, right?

Speaking purely hypothetically, ahem: equivalently, said hull could just have more OP and better baseline flux stats. Alternatively, a hullmod like that could instead boost damage - making the weapons only overpowered while on that kind of hull. But, again, I'm not sure that's actually necessary. For many of these, the damage throughput increases are fairly modest, and the thing that make them special are other properties, even if they're not always particularly major ones. It could be something as simple as effectively filling a role that other existing weapons don't.

If you can answer, it would appear to me that most of these weapons do more than just damage. Many of them have a side-effect (or perhaps even the primary effect is some kind of disruption). Are you hoping that traditional strategies won't work against these kind of weapons (forcing the player to learn/adapt) or do you think it would be "unfun" for a player to get to the endgame and then everything they've learned/built up until that point sort of gets nullified? (Of course, the player would probably get introduced to the new weapons in controlled doses throughout the game so it doesn't come completely out of left field, but you get my point...)

They've all got something special, but I wouldn't say it's disruption focused, and traditional strategies still work. A lot of this is about pushing specialization farther, or making something effective at a given job in a way that regular weapons aren't - but it's still the same tactical role. Or about breaking some kind of "rule" that regular weapon designs adhere to. Or pushing some stats to extremes, but not in a "just always more damage" way - but rather in a way that gives some tactical play.

For all that, I'm fairly certain the player's first encounter with these weapons will not go well, and there are surprises beyond that as well :)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: SonnaBanana on April 11, 2020, 11:25:16 PM
Carriers will no longer be favored, normal ships now have [REDACTED] specials to use.
Well, ships with large energy mounts.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Madao on April 12, 2020, 01:27:58 AM
Very cool post! I'm loving those visual effects, I hope they mesh well with the existing effects and weapons. So you like playing some Brigador then? I'm playing it heaps at the moment, really good stuff..
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Amoebka on April 12, 2020, 06:10:34 AM
Mixed feelings, to be honest. Some of these look really over the top and super distracting. I mean, those trails on torpedos are wider than most cruisers.

Really love the ice-themed ones. That smaller one with the Hound, especially. Just the right amount of cosmetic effects for me. And hey, it looks like it might be a medium energy weapon that doesn't feel miserable to use, so that's new!  ::)

And those purple wisp things, too. Look eery.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: arwan on April 12, 2020, 06:35:00 AM
those weapon effects are like porn. and i cant wait to see them in game.

a lot of them make me think of a dense gravity field implosion. so you end up with that dark center that fades away as the super dense gravity well dissipates. and some of the others, the red torpedoes in particular, made me feel like the weapon was coming at the ship from "subspace" with the cloud effect being a tear in the fabric between normal space and subspace. which in my mind anyway, made me feel like that projectile would be quite sturdy vs most point defense weapons.

most if not all of these weapons also made me feel like the enemy ships fielding them come from a separate pocket of space. AKA they live in subspace and are invading normal space.

all in all 11/10 excited for the future.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Megas on April 12, 2020, 07:13:07 AM
If these kind of weapons are indeed "super" weapons in the same vein as the Knights Templar, their OP and flux cost were prohibitively expensive on anything on non-Templar ships. I don't know if these new weapons are "native" to a new kind of enemy type but if they are, an inherent hull mod on those ships that give some sort of OP/Flux reduction could be in order. That way you balance around player-use but the endgame ships in question are just flat-out better with them. That probably ups the difficulty some but we're talking endgame, right?
Even with Templar weapons' raised costs for non-Templar hulls, they were overpowered enough that they were so very much worth it.  Paragon with Templar weapons became so overpowered it might as well be an honorary Templar ship itself.  Then there were the Clarent missiles and Smiter wings that drastically uplifted junk ships (at the time) into killer platforms.  Despite repeated nerfs, Sentinnea was the miracle medium energy weapon (with 800 range and homing) that put all other standard medium energy weapons to shame, unless the ship could not afford windup of any kind.

I would not be surprised if the new weapons became the Remnants' standard weapons and replaced the human weapons they use today.  That is, Remnants become a full blown mod faction like Templars in all but name.

It only raises difficulty when you first encounter them.  After you crush some of them and loot their toys, everything becomes easier.  This can be seen now with Sparks for carriers.  It is why I consider Templars a god mod, after player loots enough weapons.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Grievous69 on April 12, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
It only raises difficulty when you first encounter them.  After you crush some of them and loot their toys, everything becomes easier.
Then just make them mad at you for using they toys, easy.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Schwartz on April 12, 2020, 08:13:48 AM
Or give these new arcane weapons a breakdown mechanic. After every combat there's a X percent dice roll chance that one of those weapons will simply disintegrate due to not fully understood technology.

Yes, after having played with Knights Templar for many versions, I can agree that pushing the power envelope only ever goes one way. If a weapon is a usable upgrade, even with high flux and OP requirements, that just means that every single Paragon from now on will boast an array of these weapons and other slots will be left empty. Don't forget that leaving alien weaponry strictly to NPCs is always an option as well.

At any rate, I love those visuals. They're a bit over the top but if they suit the theme...
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Cyan Leader on April 12, 2020, 08:16:27 AM
There is no need to worry about weapons being overpowered if we are introduced to more powerful enemies later on. Let's not forget that this is a single player game, so the player becoming overpowered against lowered leveled enemies, ie. low tech/mid tech, isn't a bad thing. I really hope that Starsector introduces late game crisis events that can shake up the entire playing field. Like Terraria's "hard mode".
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Schwartz on April 12, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
But if that does happen and only 'Faction X' will still be a threat in late game, then that limits the playing field and variety of late game challenges considerably. Why do we have pirate death fleets and faction death fleets right now? They can't be just a placeholder. For long-term play (assuming there is going to be long-term play), challenges and threats should be varied. What you're suggesting is an end boss, boom, you win the game. That's completely contrary to the spirit of SS up to this point, which is to want to keep playing and shape the sector.

In the current versions, the sector powers-that-be are surprisingly weak against pirate swarms, and already we're seeing that it hurts variety. I keep picking up my latest game and putting it back down because I realize if I want to keep NPC planets from de-civilizing, I have to play catch with raid after raid of the same types of enemies. There needs to be more equilibrium, even with overpowered alien wizards in the mix.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Megas on April 12, 2020, 10:10:46 AM
@ Grievous69:  They were already hostile to begin with.  For example, Remnants are hostile by default.  You fight them, get some Sparks, and now your carriers are stronger.

The problem with having overpowered toys from the boss faction is that only said boss faction may remain the only possible threat in terms of combat.  Everything else dies faster.  (Of course, that may be irrelevant on the campaign.  Pirates are the weakest faction in combat, but the most powerful juggernaut in the campaign layer.)

Raising player to the boss faction level removes combat-viable opponents.

Quote
keep picking up my latest game and putting it back down because I realize if I want to keep NPC planets from de-civilizing, I have to play catch with raid after raid of the same types of enemies.
Part of the babysitting problem, if I want to save ungrateful and treacherous core worlds.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Grievous69 on April 12, 2020, 10:22:56 AM
Just how strong do you think these weapons will be? Everyone's acting like it will completely nullify any challenge in game and like you're gonna have those weapons on every ship you own. I get that the effects really sell the ''overpowered technology'' look but we don't know the actual numbers. Besides, even Alex said they won't be that absurdly strong. Otherwise it wouldn't be available to the player ever. I can already tell the real threat will be the ships having those weapons, not so much the weapons themselves. Also most of these weapons don't seem great vs fighters, so maybe a different strat from Paragon spam could prove to be more efficient.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Megas on April 12, 2020, 10:32:58 AM
If the enemy ships will be stronger because of those weapons, then it stands to reason that the weapons will be overpowered somehow.  Sure, they could turn out to be intimidating but sub-optimal stuff worse than the best human wepaons.  In terms of ships, maybe something like Legion14, which I do not care to use unless I am dying for a hull that can use Hammer Barrage effectively.

Quote
Otherwise it wouldn't be available to the player ever. I can already tell the real threat will be the ships having those weapons
Sounds like either Radiant, which some player could get as a wingman, or Guardian, which is a boss that is one-and-done before player resumes the babysitting routine and fight more ordinary and recurring enemies.  Probably not exactly those ships, but new knockoffs.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: FooF on April 12, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
"Faction X" is going to be the name of these hypothetical uber-advanced monsters in my headcanon until I hear otherwise... :P

I understand the concern of Faction X being the only real challenge by the end, but let's face it, at the end of a current run now, do any of the major Factions really pose a threat? My stellar empire at the end of my last run was bringing in 1.5 million credits/month and had a monopoly on most commodities (and I didn't wipe out any factions!). We're simply moving away from the Factions playing us for fools: they were never intended to be our nemesis.

That said, part of the allure I've always had for SS has been the central conceit that the player character isn't "special." You're just tossed into the maw of an uncaring, corrupt system and you have to make due. If the game was more "realistic" I don't think a player could reasonably do anything except rise to a low-level cog in the machine but that would make for a bad game experience. That we can forge our own empires and whatnot (within a few cycles, no less!) obviously stretches disbelief but I wouldn't have it otherwise.

All this to say that having a "boss" faction doesn't lessen the mid-game experience nor does having access to a few of these weapons. The Factions still have their purpose and perhaps there's more planned for them, even with Faction X and Remnants running amok. (My headcanon also has the Remnants as being developed to fight Faction X because they could win a war of attrition where standard, crewed ships could never hope to. Tri-Tach was playing the long game...!) And, yes, the weapons themselves will never be as widely available as standard and though they might be better, that doesn't make a Tachyon Lance or Plasma Cannon any less devastating.



Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 12, 2020, 11:11:45 AM
Sooo... Is there a time that we can expect the next release??? Really really excited for this!

When it's ready :)


Carriers will no longer be favored, normal ships now have [REDACTED] specials to use.

To some extent, yeah. Also not just energy mounts; not over-favoring one specific tech type by giving it exclusive access to new shinies was definitely a consideration.

So you like playing some Brigador then? I'm playing it heaps at the moment, really good stuff..

I like it a lot, yeah! David's probably spent a good bit more time with it, but it's a really good game.


Mixed feelings, to be honest. Some of these look really over the top and super distracting. I mean, those trails on torpedos are wider than most cruisers.

The thing about torpedoes is their visuals have to signal how dangerous they are :) I get what you're saying in general, though. If every fight in the game was full of these that probably wouldn't work real well, but that's not the context or intent for these.


Really love the ice-themed ones. That smaller one with the Hound, especially. Just the right amount of cosmetic effects for me.

It's probably the most "normal" one in the gifs. There's also a number of small weapons that aren't nearly as over-the-top. The gifs show the flashier stuff, though, so I think overall it paints a somewhat skewed picture.


And those purple wisp things, too. Look eery.

<makes spooky noises> (Which reminds me, they actually *do* make spooky noises in-game.)


most if not all of these weapons also made me feel like the enemy ships fielding them come from a separate pocket of space. AKA they live in subspace and are invading normal space.

all in all 11/10 excited for the future.

:D


It only raises difficulty when you first encounter them.  After you crush some of them and loot their toys, everything becomes easier.  This can be seen now with Sparks for carriers.  It is why I consider Templars a god mod, after player loots enough weapons.
Yes, after having played with Knights Templar for many versions, I can agree that pushing the power envelope only ever goes one way. If a weapon is a usable upgrade, even with high flux and OP requirements, that just means that every single Paragon from now on will boast an array of these weapons and other slots will be left empty. Don't forget that leaving alien weaponry strictly to NPCs is always an option as well.

Without getting into too many details, this won't be a concern for the next release, due to the very strictly limited access the player would have.

If there was more access, then there are options to handle it - either to constrain access (say, enemy ships don't drop these at all; a "Weapon Autodestruct" hullmod or some such), to balance them somehow ("interference", higher flux costs, higher OP costs, a hullmod that gives them more damage on enemy-faction ships and a corresponding damage nerf, etc). That's of course assuming the current balancing measures were insufficient.


I am curious about Knights Templar, though - what was the power level of the weapons, just in terms of raw DPS? Something like a homing 800 range medium energy weapon is kind of overpowered by default, though - that range in that slot type combined with hard flux is pretty much impossible to balance out in player hands. Though one could have absurd OP costs, but that leads to a weird balance where, yeah, it might technically be balanced, but the ship has to be built around having that one weapon and a lot of empty slots, and it probably wouldn't be interesting to play. Range is kind of harder to counter-balance than pure damage.


I really hope that Starsector introduces late game crisis events that can shake up the entire playing field. Like Terraria's "hard mode".

I hope so too :)


I can already tell the real threat will be the ships having those weapons, not so much the weapons themselves.

That's a big part of it, yeah.

Also most of these weapons don't seem great vs fighters, so maybe a different strat from Paragon spam could prove to be more efficient.

There's a bunch that are very good vs fighters, too. And the "flamer", while not being strictly an anti-fighter weapon, can really erase them.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: TheDTYP on April 12, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
When it's ready :)

I die a little every time I see this.

No in all seriousness, I'm liking the look of this update. Certainly seems way more content-based than the previous one, as opposed to mechanics and the like, which is 1,000% fine by me. Is it bad that the thing I got most hyped for in all this was the bit about new "hand-crafted missions"?

Can't wait to jump deeper into the story and lore of the game.

^ There's missing the point, and then there's this ^
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Schwartz on April 12, 2020, 11:35:19 AM
Templar weapons were balanced around Templar hulls having twice the OP, as well as only accumulating half the flux. Mostly they dealt a lot of damage (off the top of my head, maybe twice that of what regular SS weapons could do), but also had hefty requirements. Like the Longinus Laser, which is an energy type with 800 range and 600 DPS / 900 flux for 20 OP. Or the Sentenia Cannon which is an energy homing projectile weapon with 800 range, 100 damage / shot and 135 flux / shot, shooting bursts of 10 and coming out at around 500 DPS if I remember right. 18 OP. The latter was just usable enough that it proved a powerful upgrade for ships with flux reserves and medium energy mounts.

I found that I didn't replace all my weapons with Templar weapons, but Sentenias and some Missiles were hard to beat. Templar fighters were a menace before they had an OP cost. I think the mod skirted around the power creep issue quite well, up to a point. Piloting a Paladin yourself was pretty much the end goal; an expensive ship that paid for itself in battlefield presence.

But then again, if you played with BRDY in your mod list, Templar ships were never the most powerful ships in the game... that honor goes to the Morpheus.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Jackundor on April 12, 2020, 11:38:18 AM
Here's a line from the description of the phase lance
Quote
and in laboratory settings the p-space components of a beam exceeding 6.66 giga-watts will sometimes flicker - as if blocked.
and here one from the Doom class
Quote
Certain unnerving psychological phenomena have been reported by sensitive crew members after enduring many rapid phase-shifts in combat conditions.
considering how otherworldly those gifs look those are pretty interesting, right?
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Schwartz on April 12, 2020, 11:45:02 AM
Yeah, I got my money on ***-off cosmic horrors reaching out from p-space because those darn children keep playing hide and seek in their garden, popping in and out of their dimension. If that sounds anything like Orz, it's because Orz is awesome.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Cyan Leader on April 12, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
There are tons of ways to make the current factions keep up as the game progresses. Maybe new weapons are unlocked for them as the player progresses accomplishes different things, maybe more advanced blueprints are decoded, maybe factions start using AIs to get better pilots. Hell, maybe new factions start popping up. Point is that a progression is needed and these showcase weapons can be a great step in that direction. We all have a sense of what "vanilla balance" is for now but that really shouldn't be something that the game has to be limited to.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 12, 2020, 12:26:22 PM
Templar weapons were balanced around Templar hulls having twice the OP, as well as only accumulating half the flux. Mostly they dealt a lot of damage (off the top of my head, maybe twice that of what regular SS weapons could do), but also had hefty requirements. Like the Longinus Laser, which is an energy type with 800 range and 600 DPS / 900 flux for 20 OP. Or the Sentenia Cannon which is an energy homing projectile weapon with 800 range, 100 damage / shot and 135 flux / shot, shooting bursts of 10 and coming out at around 500 DPS if I remember right. 18 OP. The latter was just usable enough that it proved a powerful upgrade for ships with flux reserves and medium energy mounts.

I found that I didn't replace all my weapons with Templar weapons, but Sentenias and some Missiles were hard to beat. Templar fighters were a menace before they had an OP cost. I think the mod skirted around the power creep issue quite well, up to a point. Piloting a Paladin yourself was pretty much the end goal; an expensive ship that paid for itself in battlefield presence.

Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it! It sounds like KT weapons have considerably more raw power.

These new weapons don't have the same kind of baseline performance, but in some cases can be very effective - but more situationally. For example, several of the long-range weapons heavily encourage use at short ranges. Definitely more balancing to be done, though; I've only done some fairly minimal playtesting with these on the player side.

Here's a line from the description of the phase lance
Quote
and in laboratory settings the p-space components of a beam exceeding 6.66 giga-watts will sometimes flicker - as if blocked.
and here one from the Doom class
Quote
Certain unnerving psychological phenomena have been reported by sensitive crew members after enduring many rapid phase-shifts in combat conditions.
considering how otherworldly those gifs look those are pretty interesting, right?

I was wondering if this would come up :)

If that sounds anything like Orz, it's because Orz is awesome.

My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles*
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Megas on April 12, 2020, 12:37:55 PM
Re: Templar Weapons
Going by memory...

For ballistics, there were weapons that built up hard flux where they hit shields are not, and could overload.  Quite an unfair weapon, which I used on Eagles and Onslaughts.  Large mount had a huge railgun that was like a cross between Starsector's Gauss Cannon and Quake 2's railgun.  Huge windup, huge damage, perfect passthrough, might have built up flux on any hit.

For energy beams, Rhons and the like had huge DPS.  Almost like Guardian/Paladin PD in a small slot.  Great PD if the ship had the flux to support it.

For energy non-beams, medium had Sentennia which had 800 range and homing.  Large had two notable ones.  One I think called Jugar or something, functioned a bit like Quake 2's/Doom 3's BFG.  Slow orb that zaps nearby ships and missiles.  Huge direct damage.  It was a swiss army knife weapon, and was relatively cheap OP by Templar standards.  Basically Templar's Locust - a budget all-purpose weapon.  Helps make Paragon overpowered.  Another weapon was Joyese or something.  Weird, long-range shotgun-like weapon.  Paragon could outgun things from long-range like a Onslaught.

Missiles had Clarents and the ROLAND which was a Clarent MIRV.  Basically long-range and faster version of the 0.7.2 Atropos.  And the bigger Clarents could regenerate like Pilums.  Templars' best fighters spammed Clarents.

Re: Morpheus
That used to be a great ship before 0.8, but when I tried it after 0.8, it did not seem as overpowering as it did.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Schwartz on April 12, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Clarents were also (rightfully) nerfed into the ground over the course of several versions. What we ended up with was similar to the Atropos we got now. What Clarents started out as, well, I shudder to recall... especially with regular Teuton respawns, back when they had Clarents.

It really goes to show you that overpowered guns can be handled, somehow, but overpowered, respawning, virtually flux-free missiles and fighters.. that's where things get hairy.

I don't consider Spark to be overpowered by the way. Best in class for the cost, definitely. But not a game-changer.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: FinetalPies on April 12, 2020, 04:35:42 PM
I don't have any particular thoughts on balance I'm just excited for cool laser beams. (Get it? Cause ice themed weapons?)

But yeah these look super fun to use and super intimidating to go up against. Definitely worth the time spent
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Wyvern on April 12, 2020, 06:04:27 PM
I do find it interesting how different my experiences with Templar weaponry were versus, uh, everyone else who's been posting?

That being that, in general, the templar weapons weren't worth using.  Sure, there were some exceptions - they performed well on ships like the Apogee that had strong flux stats and limited weapon slots - but even on most templar ships, you were usually better off mounting vanilla weapons.

For a more up-to-date example, the Blade Breaker weapons from DME are similar - high performance, yes, but also high OP cost and high flux cost, to the point where they're very rarely worth using.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 12, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
@Megas, Schwartz, Wyvern: thank you! I appreciate the info.

I don't consider Spark to be overpowered by the way. Best in class for the cost, definitely. But not a game-changer.

Hmm - I'd say there's some room between "overpowered" and "game-breaking". While it's not the latter, I think there's a good argument that it's the former.

I don't have any particular thoughts on balance I'm just excited for cool laser beams. (Get it? Cause ice themed weapons?)

But yeah these look super fun to use and super intimidating to go up against. Definitely worth the time spent

Haha! And thank you :)

That being that, in general, the templar weapons weren't worth using.  Sure, there were some exceptions - they performed well on ships like the Apogee that had strong flux stats and limited weapon slots - but even on most templar ships, you were usually better off mounting vanilla weapons.

For a more up-to-date example, the Blade Breaker weapons from DME are similar - high performance, yes, but also high OP cost and high flux cost, to the point where they're very rarely worth using.

It's definitely good to know it can work out like that.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Mordodrukow on April 12, 2020, 07:22:39 PM
Really like this one!

New content is always good. Especially when we talk about new energy weapons.

I like the idea of armor-stripping weapon. If it will be small or medium, there will be a reason to use it on frigates (or destroyers). I maen: you say that AI will not react on this weapon, so, it will be useful, because you can, for example, build kinetic-based large ships and support em with armor-stripping frigates. You STILL need to play properly (harass enemy by big ships to prevent him just killing frigates, because they are still a target, no matter what weapon they use), but at the same time it makes frigates more useful, which is good.

I like the phase torpedo. It looks good and if it can hit phased ships... well. I ll take some :D

I really like the idea of limited accassability to these weapons, because it can make yellow skill branch more useful. I mean: my first playthrough was about yellow skills. I wanted to play as scavenger and i wanted to "build economy" as a big fan of strategic games. Then i realised, that i dont need those skills. We are getting tons of weapons even without yellow skills, and if we have em, we just getting more useless stuff which i, personally, keep in storage on my colonies, because selling price of loot (except for small number of things) not worth an ice-cream.

So, if there will be really rare weapons (with rarity compared to one of nanoforges) - then it will be another reason to max yellow.

And about the power level. May be you can make new weapons to create hard flux instead of soft one. But not all the time. Lets say, you have two "Black Ball Cannons" (hope, it will be named like that :D). While they have separate shooting cooldown (which basically defines their ate of fire), you can add global hard flux cooldown. When you shoot from BBC, game checks if your ship is on this global flux cd. If it is, the shot creates hard flux.

You still can shoot these weapons, "paying" hard flux, or you can shoot less often. Its all up to you. May be, it will even encourage players to build more flux capacity, if the effect of using new weapons as much as you can as fast as you can will worth it.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Morrokain on April 12, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
I love the new graphical effects. These weapons distinguish themselves with a different aesthetic flavor of weaponry whilst also adding additional tactical options for combat builds which these weapons readily provide. Nicely done! This is looking to be an excellent extension of existing features. The lore of previous descriptions coming into fruition as gameplay elements in the campaign is something I especially appreciate as well. Very excited for this update!
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Amoebka on April 13, 2020, 12:31:51 AM
Just to clarify, by "limited availability", do you mean they will be rare drops from rare enemies, or is the absolute number of these weapons in the sector limited? Do these weapons have limited amount of uses in player's hands before they disintegrate? Can I expect to find at least one of each kind in a single playthrough?
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Daimon on April 13, 2020, 12:54:59 AM
Someone already mentioned Diablo and this was exactly my first reaction: those weapons remind me of legendary weapons from RPGs with their special visual effects, over average stats or extraordinary effects, a small drop rate and probably unique names like Ice Dragon Breath for the flame thrower etc.
This said, I really love their visuals and even got my girlfriend excited over a video game for a second.

I assume the effects are purely optical and don't effect other weapons passing through the not-bullet/rocket/flame part? If not, this or a dedicated weapon could be used as a denial field, i.e. shoot in front of friendly ships and create for a couple of seconds such intense vacuum turbulences that incoming enemy weapons cannot pass which gives the friend valuable seconds to vent. But I assume that's breaks more than it benefits.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 13, 2020, 12:33:42 PM
Just to clarify, by "limited availability", do you mean they will be rare drops from rare enemies, or is the absolute number of these weapons in the sector limited? Do these weapons have limited amount of uses in player's hands before they disintegrate? Can I expect to find at least one of each kind in a single playthrough?

Ah, sorry - I'm afraid that information is REDACTED; I don't want to give too much away here.

I assume the effects are purely optical and don't effect other weapons passing through the not-bullet/rocket/flame part? If not, this or a dedicated weapon could be used as a denial field, i.e. shoot in front of friendly ships and create for a couple of seconds such intense vacuum turbulences that incoming enemy weapons cannot pass which gives the friend valuable seconds to vent. But I assume that's breaks more than it benefits.

Yeah, it's like with beams, right - they may look like they could possibly block something, but they don't. As you say, if it did work that way, it'd be troublesome. (The flamer is pretty good at blocking missile fire, though...)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Linnis on April 13, 2020, 12:39:59 PM
Those blue flame thrower reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rx8_vjbXX4
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Nick XR on April 13, 2020, 01:17:36 PM
I like the disintegration beam, makes sense given the lore around when shields started to be a thing!
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Dri on April 13, 2020, 02:43:16 PM
Wonder if that ancient sprite sheet of Starsector ships that had the very much alien-looking ship is a hint at what is to come...
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Max_z on April 13, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
<makes spooky noises> (Which reminds me, they actually *do* make spooky noises in-game.)
Whaat? As if the 'Distress Signal' sound doesn't get me a scare and goose bumps all the ommygosh times!

For rarity: these weapons could require using Story Points to salvage, be only installable while in dock or use Story Points to fit them on ships

Are these Station mounted (like Motherships or Nexus)?
In the Blog there's a mention about ships: are they mostly exotic stuff or also something player enjoyable(flyable)?  8)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Mordodrukow on April 13, 2020, 11:17:12 PM
Quote
Ah, sorry - I'm afraid that information is REDACTED
I got it! This weapon is some kind of SCP, right?
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: bobucles on April 14, 2020, 04:43:18 AM
Please make the Mjolnir more visually impressive. The dark blue on black causes the weapon to fade into most dark backgrounds, effectively hiding this weapon at a quick glance. In reality the weapon is extremely dangerous and should visually stand out.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 14, 2020, 10:22:07 AM
Wonder if that ancient sprite sheet of Starsector ships that had the very much alien-looking ship is a hint at what is to come...

I'm pretty sure that was early phaseship concept art? Depending on what exactly you mean, of course.

Are these Station mounted (like Motherships or Nexus)?
In the Blog there's a mention about ships: are they mostly exotic stuff or also something player enjoyable(flyable)?  8)

:-X

Please make the Mjolnir more visually impressive. The dark blue on black causes the weapon to fade into most dark backgrounds, effectively hiding this weapon at a quick glance. In reality the weapon is extremely dangerous and should visually stand out.

Let me add a bit of glow to the shot, like the Heavy Blaster has.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Deshara on April 14, 2020, 01:44:49 PM
wouldnt an optimal solution for the flamethrower problem be to fix each shot's rotation to its relative position to the previous shot?
edit: YOU KNOW WHAT Would be a cool affect for a special weapon? A gun that fires a heavy bolt that lodges into the enemy ship and whose impact releases a wave of energy that wraps around the target's hull like that black energy weapon does, and then after traveling for x amount of time the energy mass arcs back to the bolt thru the hull and inflicts damage based on how much hull is between them -- when used to kill a ship it splits the hull along/near the line of the arc. To make up for their lack of hull width, when used against frigates or fighters the energy wave doesn't hug the hull and can arc back thru other nearby frigates and fighters on the way back to the bolt, able to cut multiple (small) ships in half along a single axis
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Starteri on April 16, 2020, 10:43:42 PM
"More often than not, though, the initial idea is just something to get started with, and what actually ends up working is surprising – and, sometimes, a happy accident."

The macguffin of video games :D
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 17, 2020, 09:40:06 AM
wouldnt an optimal solution for the flamethrower problem be to fix each shot's rotation to its relative position to the previous shot?

That doesn't actually work - I mean, that'd keep the "hose" coherent, but also locks the weapon into firing in the initial direction it fired in.

In general it might be possible to do this by changing shot facings, but it's easier to move the shots by just, well, moving them, than it is by steering them.

The macguffin of video games :D

Ha! Nice :)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Ryan390 on April 18, 2020, 07:43:50 AM
Alex when are you going to get this game finished / 1.0. The game doesn't need more weapons / ships or fancy effects why are you focusing on these silly trinkets?
Finish the story / campaign, i'd be more interested in seeing what the jump gates will do and how the story pans out.. It's getting ridiculous waiting years for this game to finish, checking every day for a monthly update which rarely comes each month..

Only to see another update obsessing over graphical tweaks, the games already pretty, what are you doing?
How long can one expect to wait it's been in develop ten years now mate, you've had the core mechanics down for a while now (years IMO), yet still not a finished 'game'.

Why don't you add a feature, something like a hire able mercenary fleet that can bodyguard you for a credit cost?


Things I like in updates:
- Colony building (yes)
- Quest / mission variety increase (yes)
- Story / campaign progression (yes)

Things that make me super-super eye roll:
- Graphics tweaks
- More balancing tweaks
- More UI re-designs

I'm just giving a few examples here, I'm surprised the community is so enthralled with these kind of updates, like magpies chasing a sparking diamond..
Get the core game out, add polish and refinement later dude?
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Igncom1 on April 18, 2020, 08:14:02 AM
You only get one chance for a first impression. So I HEAVILY disagree that polishing should happen after release. Far too many products are released half done and SS should not be one of them.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Megas on April 18, 2020, 08:15:42 AM
I would be nice if Remnants had their own weapons, although it seems like these new weapons are akin to Legion14 wrecks instead of new Sparks for Remnants' energy mounts.

I like to see core worlds more competent at repelling pirate raids and at defending their worlds from casual sat bombing runs from the player.  It would also be nice if core worlds can rebuild their worlds after their destruction (or even recover their original population level) unless I make a real effort to kill everyone faster than they can rebuild.  Right now, core worlds are too fragile.  Either pirates decivilize them after a long while or player can sat bomb them with ease if he cannot wait for worlds to decivilize. 

I also would like other ways to reduce the babysitting that does not involve paying extortion money/rep or wiping them out.  I would like a reason to save core worlds.  Currently, core worlds give me every reason (from expeditions to inability to defend themselves from pirates) to go Black Sabbath's Iron Man and kill them all (or ignore them and let pirates kill them for me).

Also, willing alpha core slaves and Pather cells that cannot wreck your colonies are great.  I would like to see empire expansion of some sort continue to be supported, and not require character skills spent to dilute combat power.  If not, I just hope that putting all colonies in one system for proper system defense is not optimal.  I like having outposts and some worlds spread out, but that is not really encouraged without being able to colonize far beyond normal limits (which means alpha cores).
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Grievous69 on April 18, 2020, 08:17:45 AM
@Ryan390

Sorry if I sound rude but did you even bother to read the blog post? FIRST sentence, Alex immediately said he's working on new missions and endgame content. And your other request, colonies, those are also getting new stuff, more items to put in them while exploring and so on (which is also stated in the blog post). Who cares about balance and UI that can completely mess up the fun and experience of the game amirite...

Look I'm not some huge fanboy here defending the devs, but I'm so sick of people pushing devs to rush out their products. This has ruined a ton of games, and will just keep getting worse. The very fact that Alex is such a perfectionist has brought success to the game since we don't have gamebreaking bugs every update, apart from every other game having day 1 patchups, even AAA ones.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Ryan390 on April 18, 2020, 11:03:09 AM
I think you both missed my main point, let's discuss a bit further..

I agree, lot's of games these days (early access / or even finished AAA titles - get rushed out, sometimes)
That's a different business as your talking about these companies investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a title. it some cases the future of that company can rest on a single titles revenue at launch.
Some of these companies are extremely large - It's a business, so sometimes they need to release a bit early then patch it after.
They are employing people with families and mortgages, so the company needs a return at some point. What I'm trying to say here is that I get why this happens, despite how much I hate it.

It sucks when a released title has loads of bugs / glitches, I'd never be an advocate of rushing a title out, in Star Sector's case, this is anything but rushed.
I get the polishing, I do..

*Edit* Look at Mount Blade 2 for example - Bit of a disaster in terms of initial impressions due to bugs / performance issues (I was extremely disappointed after 8 years of dev)
*But* - They made a good attempt at getting key features out first such as the tutorials and campaigns and custom battles, the right strategy just a poor execution as they clearly lacked the QA / balancing / polishing discussed here.
Realistically in an ideal world you want both, not just one or the other.

I'm a commercial software engineer myself, quality is important as code rots over time and features get harder to implement if the code base isn't maintained to a quality level following good SOLID principles..
I get it, I do..

With regards to the first reply, it's not about *first impressions* we're ten years in first impressions have been and gone, surely?
When the game becomes 1.0 and is released fully (on Steam or not, I've no idea what Alexs' plans are with that) - then your impressions and initial reviews are going to matter.

I wasn't suggesting releasing early before final balancing and tweaks are completed, obviously that's a bad idea!
However..

There's also a thing called MVP (minimum viable product) and having a focused release cycle on getting key features and functionality out first, makes a lot of sense.
I've played multiple sessions on vanilla, I've not noticed any glaring bugs, horrible glitches or UI issues or major balancing issues.

In it's current form I find the game extremely decent, let's not talk about first impressions as:
Number one, the game's had players playing it for ten years or so.
Number two, it's well polished and I doubt a single player has a bad thing to say about the game (especially the lucky few who are experiencing it for the first time)

I've been aware of Alex working on 'core' features for a while now, but please let's not wait another ten years till 1.0 because we are obsessed about colouring in asteroids and the like..



 
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Grievous69 on April 18, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Thanks for the detailed explanation but what exactly do you still expect from the game? The things you listed in the previous post are going to come, what else do you think should be added? Because if I'm not mistaken, Alex said most of the core mechanics are already done. I'm just curious what's that crucial element you want instead of ''just content'' you assume we're getting.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Ryan390 on April 18, 2020, 11:26:52 AM
In a word: Story campaign (two words  ;D) !
The game is great - I even prefer vanilla over the mods I tried, however it's just missing that story / goal.

It's teasing us with the (not going to give away any spoilers) - current abrupt ending of the quest line..
Which has been that way for months now.
As polished as it already is, as great as everyone's impressions already are - I'm just finding it excruciatingly painful waiting for the update that'll shut me up!

I've recommended the game to a couple of my friends, i believe in this product, and have gotten other people playing it.
Lets get to the next level and get this story mode done lads, cmon!  :)

No more colouring in, let's make some ground trembling changes eh?
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: SCC on April 18, 2020, 11:29:54 AM
With regards to the first reply, it's not about *first impression* we're ten years in first impressions have been and gone, surely?
It's not about your first impression, or anyone on this site's, but of many people who still don't know about the game (or at least didn't know until Sseth made his video...).

From what I gather, Alex is currently working about additional items to find to upgrade your industries with (colony building), additional bizarre Domain leftover stuff you might want to get, in the vein of Cryosleeper (colony building), and in this blog post, we get to see some weird stuff you are supposed to hunt for in the end game? I'm not sure. It might also be some quest/mission rewards (after you beat the thing that sports these guns).
It's a similar deal to Painting Stars blogpost, some filler to remind us Alex and David aren't dead, while leaving all the labyrinthine graphs and rules.csv black magic in the dark. Alex is pretty keen on not revealing too much about "secret" stuff, we didn't know much about Remnants, until it happened. Alex was also supposed on the endgame/story progression, but I'd also like to know does this stuff come in this update, or was it feature creeped, or what... It's pretty much the most important thing to get done now, with colonies/faction relations having greater purpose (like being able to order people to do things for you) coming as close second.
I can agree about skill rework not being necessary (if that's what you mean by balancing tweaks and UI redesigns). Current skill system is imbalanced, but serviceable.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Grievous69 on April 18, 2020, 11:30:35 AM
Well with the sandbox nature of this game, story certainly isn't the biggest element, but I agree on the goal, there's not too much to do in late-game now. That said, I'm 100% sure we'll get more of both story and goals before 1.0.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Ryan390 on April 18, 2020, 11:40:36 AM
Well with the sandbox nature of this game, story certainly isn't the biggest element, but I agree on the goal, there's not too much to do in late-game now. That said, I'm 100% sure we'll get more of both story and goals before 1.0.

Totally agree, and yes fingers crossed indeed!
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 18, 2020, 11:50:53 AM
The game doesn't need more weapons / ships or fancy effects ...

I'll just say, I'm not sure than assuming I'm doing something random for no reason is the most, ah, accurate interpretation :) My hands are sort of tied as far as explaining things, though, because I don't want to get too deep into spoiler territory.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: MesoTroniK on April 18, 2020, 05:51:03 PM
Ryan.

There needs to be a foreboding dread at the end of the tunnel. "Finishing the campaign (and quests)" without boogieman and creeping threats would be an exceptional let down. Alex knows *exactly* what he is doing.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Piemanlives on April 18, 2020, 05:52:12 PM
I'll just say, I'm not sure than assuming I'm doing something random for no reason is the most, ah, accurate interpretation :) My hands are sort of tied as far as explaining things, though, because I don't want to get too deep into spoiler territory.
It's ok Alex, I still love you.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Eji1700 on April 18, 2020, 08:27:59 PM
The game doesn't need more weapons / ships or fancy effects ...
Speaking personally, I pretty much disagree. 

There's a ton of unfilled niche's in vanilla ships/weapons that really only feel complete with some modding, and something that people don't appreciate is that making things for finished systems is much easier than brand new mechanics.  I have no idea if that's the case for this game and I don't just want a constant conga line of ships and weapons every so often, but spending time focusing on adding a couple of weapons and hulls to round out the roster really doesn't strike me as a waste (even though this is clearly more end game material)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Ryan390 on April 20, 2020, 09:03:24 AM
Appreciate you want to keep your secrets, I'd never suggest you should do otherwise.
However just a simple update such as a *rough* level or progress would be appreciated.

For example last month we might of been 18% complete on mainline story progression.
In the next update you might mention your *approximately* 29% complete.

Based on your current ambition VS the current amount of content.. i wouldn't consider that a spoiler, just a rough idea of where that particular mechanic is up-to.
A spoiler would be oh yes I've created a new alien race that will invade the Galaxy through the inactive sector gates, or something..

Not expecting details but a very very rough idea of progression I think would go a long way, personally.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Grievous69 on April 20, 2020, 09:09:33 AM
Even a rough percentage is very hard to say, since some stuff might occupy more dev time than it initially ''should'' have. There's always complications, something goes bonkers, something goes super smooth. But based on the blog posts and the time that has passed, I'd say the next update is 75-80% done. I may be completely off but usually I'm not terrible at guessing.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: SafariJohn on April 20, 2020, 09:14:19 AM
Appreciate you want to keep your secrets, I'd never suggest you should do otherwise.
However just a simple update such as a *rough* level or progress would be appreciated.

For example last month we might of been 18% complete on mainline story progression.
In the next update you might mention your *approximately* 29% complete.

Developing software is iterative, which means there are always things you have to do that you didn't know about at the beginning. That's how many projects end up spending 90% of their time and effort on the "last 10%" of the work AKA Development Hell
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 20, 2020, 09:51:27 AM
Appreciate you want to keep your secrets, I'd never suggest you should do otherwise.
However just a simple update such as a *rough* level or progress would be appreciated.

For example last month we might of been 18% complete on mainline story progression.
In the next update you might mention your *approximately* 29% complete.

That's kind of hard to say - we know the overall shape of the story, but how much it will get fleshed out where really depends. So let's just say: there will be a bunch of missions and story related stuff in the next release, and also it will by no means be the whole thing :)
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Ryan390 on April 23, 2020, 01:17:33 AM
That's fine, thanks for that Alex.

W/R to SafariJohn's post:

Developing software is iterative

Correct, software should be iterative. From a commercial perspective, releasing early and often is usually the best way to get feedback quickly (QA)
To make your product iterative and not run at a glacial pace it requires you to slow down initially and plan and slice the work accordingly, constantly re-evaluating yourself as you go along.

By getting a full vertical slice of functionality through the door we can prove the infrastructure / deployments & CI pipeline is solid. Achieving this forces us to think about our ticket / story slicing in a way that each feature can be separately developed and released. We call it 'getting a bullet trace through the system'.
This approach usually lends itself a slower start, but doesn't have as much of a negative effect later down the line - (as you call it - the 'development hell')
Therefore in the long run you can maintain a more steady velocity. There shouldn't ever be a development hell, your process somewhere down the line has failed if you've gotten yourself into that situation.

What we're describing here is basically an agile approach vs a waterfall approach:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Agile-vs-iterative-flow.jpg
Notice each release on the left is much smaller, yet more frequent, if we're really talking about iterative software, this is how it's done.

With the gaming industry this isn't as easy to do, especially when your trying to not leak information about your product.
David Braben followed a similar agile approach to iterative software releasing, creating a full vertical slice of releasable game play pretty much right from the start.
He wasn't that bothered about keeping updates a secret and actually was very candid about upcoming releases. Yes, there ended up being plenty of bugs on day one, but they got ironed out pretty quickly in his defense.
Every release which came after was frequent / iterative and they never slowed down, he ended up finishing the 1.0 version of the game in no time at all.
Not everything has to be a big bang release, though it makes sense in some situations, such as releasing a big expansion pack for a game.

That's how many projects end up spending 90% of their time and effort on the "last 10%" of the work AKA Development Hell

That's because most projects you've been involved with probably are run in a waterfall fashion.
They start quick due to lack of initial planning / slicing, also develop initially fairly quick..
Then what usually happens is they slow down over time as things get more complex and the code base becomes more out of control.
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/3-s2.0-B9780123815200000023-f02-01-9780123815200.jpg?_

Yes there will always be non functional requirements to consider, scope creep, un-expected technological barriers, Peoples illness / absences. Live issues you need to jump on, etc,etc But that's the same with all software usually.
The difference here is how you manage the stuff that is purely in your control.
If you're running a really big project over multiple teams, you kind of have to do this stuff or everything just grinds to a halt and cost will sky rocket.
However even for smaller products / individuals - the same principles above can be applied - It just happens on a smaller scale to bigger businesses.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Sharkfighter on April 29, 2020, 09:43:49 PM
Will it be possible to slap these weapons on a tempest and do drive by's with an ice flamethrower? I am also excited to see how the [redacted] ended up with these weapons.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on April 30, 2020, 09:12:47 AM
:-X
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Tartiflette on August 12, 2020, 02:28:38 PM
On the pure technical side, will those new quests still use just the current rules.csv for the bulk of the work? Or will there be some more robust system to manage them? Just to know if it is worthwhile to start working on such framework within a mod without getting all that work invalidated in 6 month with the update.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Alex on August 12, 2020, 03:44:46 PM
Hmm. I'd say the rules stuff is fine for interactions - especially if it doesn't try to do too much and sticks with making proper code do the heavy lifting - and what's more complicated for current missions is the coding of the intel items etc. The next blog post will touch on this (and hopefully clear some of this up), and if you want to follow up in that thread (once it's up, of course), I'll be happy to discuss that further.
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: Ithiloneth on April 22, 2021, 09:03:58 AM
Sorry to post in an old thread, but before go mad from searching every corner of the sector; are any of these weapons available in the latest release? Tried looking through this thread for information but either I missed it or the information is not here  ???
Title: Re: GIF Roundup
Post by: SCC on April 22, 2021, 09:17:10 AM
Yes, they are, but they are very uncommon.