Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gregorovitch on February 14, 2020, 07:34:36 AM

Title: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Gregorovitch on February 14, 2020, 07:34:36 AM
I hear starting heavy industry causes "problems" with the other factions. Given I have no idea what these "problems" amount I'm nervous about when to start it. My situation is:

* Three planets in one system sizes 5, 4 and 3 at the moment producing a net income of about 100k per month after fleet costs.
* One has military base, the other two patrol HQ's
* One is a beezer mining world, +3 rare ore and + 2 ore (plus bonuses from my skills)
* I have four pristine nanoforges
* I'm not that happy with my fleet but it amounts to one Legion single D-mod carrier (hull debuff), a Heron, two dominators, two Apogees, an Eagle, a Falcon and a couple of overdriven Hammerheads plus sundry smaller ships. Enough to do 250k bounties and bases reasonably easy it seems.
* I haven't found any good capital ship blueprints yet, only the crumby Atlas one.
* I got 3m credits in the bank
* I took a commission with Hegemony to kick start my colonization but have resigned it now. But my ranking with the Persians and Magenta coloured faction are still not good, they are still suspicious.

I thought of doing some outer system exploration expeditions to see if I can find some decent capital ship blueprints or even derelict examples as a break from the bounty grind, but I'm unsure if I should start heavy industry now or if I should first upgrade my fleet and colonies in some way before doing so or perhaps grind up some better rep with the two major factions that don't like me very much.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Plantissue on February 14, 2020, 10:04:00 AM
Heavy Industry doesn't cause problems with other factions, specifically. You should already be receiving expedition fleets from your other exports, and if you aren't for whatever reason, it's unlikely you will receive expedition fleets from building Heavy Industry. Even if you do so, the money gained is well worth the cost of defending from those fleets. If you can do 250k bounties, you should be able to defend your colony from the smaller expedition fleets anyways.

You got got 3m credits. Spend your money.

What is a beezer?
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Gregorovitch on February 14, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Great, I'll get it started then  :)

Sorry, beezer is UK slang I guess. It basically means very good. I'm not 100% but I believe the origin of this use is from a popular weekly kids comic of the same name that ran from 1950's to about the 80's. Had iconic characters like Roger the Dodger, Minnie the Minx, Desperate Dan and Beryl the Peril in it.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Igncom1 on February 14, 2020, 10:32:40 AM
Made me think of a Bacardi Breezer.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: DDwarrirofire on February 14, 2020, 12:58:14 PM
You sound pretty set. 2 HQ patrols and eventually a high command can defend very well especially alongside stations.

Depending on what you have, heavy industry may attract a certain fraction.  But just heavy industry and a pristine nanoforge by itself won't pull them though it is close.  If your planet only has light industry,  farming and structures it'll be fine. 

Otherwise,  no more D mods on your manufactured ships and defending fleets, going strong.

You'll also make a lot of money,  not just from the the export but all of your colonies will have reduced upkeep from being supplied in faction.

Note: if you want to build relations, take those Atlas ships, make a fleet and go do some trading to build rep.  Can be enjoyable although by the time you can do that money isn't really a thing.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: IonDragonX on February 14, 2020, 01:13:26 PM
Note: if you want to build relations, take those Atlas ships, make a fleet and go do some trading to build rep.  Can be enjoyable although by the time you can do that money isn't really a thing.
I don't think that he has the Super-freighter plan, I think that he has the "crumby" Pirate one. Pirate plans are so easy to find.

Its not hard to build rep with contracts but you won't get the right contracts unless you start hanging out in those systems. i.e. To build rep with Persian League, go to the systems claimed by Persian League.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Gregorovitch on February 14, 2020, 01:36:49 PM
Game seems to be lying to me.

A Persian "expeditionary force" just popped round to see me - complete with four troop carriers presumably stuffed with marines - apparently upset about my market share in fuel. So the game told me these dudes were operating "unofficially" and wasting them would not affect my rep with the faction concerned. It told me that on the colony threats intel reports and also during the engagement dialogs.

So I waste them. Then I get a report "Persian expedition to.. [blah blah] ..failed: Reputation -5

WTF?
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Aereto on February 14, 2020, 01:46:02 PM
I'll squeeze in some more tips.

If you want to stay neutral or friendly with factions that send covert fleets to sabotage your exports, doing missions from the faction will help. Especially exploration missions if you know how to manage your fuel, supplies, and mission chain routes. It also has odds of finding derelict stations that carry blueprints you would like, especially the rare chance of capitals.

Remember, once heavy industry is built, upgrade to orbital works when you can. Adds more quality that your faction can benefit from and gives more breathing room on customizing your faction fleets.

Game seems to be lying to me.

A Persian "expeditionary force" just popped round to see me - complete with four troop carriers presumably stuffed with marines - apparently upset about my market share in fuel. So the game told me these dudes were operating "unofficially" and wasting them would not affect my rep with the faction concerned. It told me that on the colony threats intel reports and also during the engagement dialogs.

So I waste them. Then I get a report "Persian expedition to.. [blah blah] ..failed: Reputation -5

WTF?

That rep loss is not a bad thing, since that rep loss stems from export market jealousy. It is similar of attacking a fleet with your transponder off.

The ones that are officially operating will cause the rep to go automatically go -50 (hostile) if you have the transponder on.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: DDwarrirofire on February 14, 2020, 03:07:56 PM
Note: if you want to build relations, take those Atlas ships, make a fleet and go do some trading to build rep.  Can be enjoyable although by the time you can do that money isn't really a thing.
I don't think that he has the Super-freighter plan, I think that he has the "crumby" Pirate one. Pirate plans are so easy to find.

Its not hard to build rep with contracts but you won't get the right contracts unless you start hanging out in those systems. i.e. To build rep with Persian League, go to the systems claimed by Persian League.

put a sniffer on their comms to make it easier to get contract specifically for them.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Gregorovitch on February 15, 2020, 02:18:03 AM

That rep loss is not a bad thing, since that rep loss stems from export market jealousy. It is similar of attacking a fleet with your transponder off.


That may be so but it still seems like the game is lying to you plus it seems a bit rich that you get a rep hit when they launch an unprovoked attack on you.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Plantissue on February 15, 2020, 05:19:21 AM
There didn't use to be a minus rep when if the expedition fails and it was tacked on later. So the description and the timing is a bit iffy.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Hudenagyon on February 15, 2020, 05:30:35 AM
Im on my first playthrough and basically flying in dark, I built 2 colonies on decent looking planets in a system, both were size 4 when the first Luddic Path expedition fleet arrived for some sightseeing in my free ports.
Then the Persean Leauge came because of my market share in Organics. I thought to myself: the Perseans are really dicks for pestering my colony for some crates of Organics.

After a Sindrian Diktat expedition and another Persean fleet I cared to check (finally found the info panel :D ) my market share of Organics, it turns out its Top1 with 25% of global market share in the whole Sector... No surprise they are overboard about it. :D

About heavy industry: I had no idea what will happen. The text said it can build ships, and I had a pristine nanoforge so I built industry. Some Luddic terrorist groups are mooking about the extensive AI core use (basically everything has one where I could install it), but bashing their base takes care of them real good.

The rep minus is sadly there, even if my patrols or stations kill the expedition.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Megas on February 15, 2020, 09:02:18 AM
There didn't use to be a minus rep when if the expedition fails and it was tacked on later. So the description and the timing is a bit iffy.
In part because at first, you took penalties every time you fought, but not if your NPC flunkies killed them.  Made it all the more reason to delegate as much babysitting to your followers.  Now, it is one penalty after it fails.

What is silly is if I abandon the colony, I still get the rep penalty just because they were not the ones to break my stuff.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Gregorovitch on February 15, 2020, 11:34:22 AM
I afraid I'm losing the will to continue with the game 'cos of these continuous expedition raids and the unavoidable -5 rep hits you get for them. It's demonstrably unfair and puts you in a position of having to run to stand still since you can't really do enough jobs to counter it and drive it in the opposite direction. Running to stand still is not fun. Progress is fun.

Pirates and the Path OK, but the inevitability is you end up at full scale hostilities with these regular factions no matter what you do. If the game is designed to set up a you against the universe war then it should say so plainly IMO and it certainly shouldn't lie and tell you defeating an black op expedition fleet won't hurt your rep with a faction when it actually does.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: DDwarrirofire on February 15, 2020, 12:16:56 PM
I afraid I'm losing the will to continue with the game 'cos of these continuous expedition raids and the unavoidable -5 rep hits you get for them. It's demonstrably unfair and puts you in a position of having to run to stand still since you can't really do enough jobs to counter it and drive it in the opposite direction. Running to stand still is not fun. Progress is fun.

Pirates and the Path OK, but the inevitability is you end up at full scale hostilities with these regular factions no matter what you do. If the game is designed to set up a you against the universe war then it should say so plainly IMO and it certainly shouldn't lie and tell you defeating an black op expedition fleet won't hurt your rep with a faction when it actually does.

Either we're at different stages or I'm missing something.  Granted it is harder if low but once you have a good relationship with a faction it's incredibly easy to boost it.  Donate AI cores (I had a crap load of Gamma so I got them to like me very quickly), do a trade or  (the easiest imo) complete any bounty or pirate raid assistance mission.  There is a limit to how many expeditions you can get in a certain time frame so they're spaced out enough that you can maintain  it without too much trouble once you get it down.

Otherwise, it is pretty much the normal state of the place you're in.  While I pretty much ignore them, the factions are constantly going to war and back.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Prolbo on February 16, 2020, 02:55:48 AM
Man, this is deep dark space full of imerialists, fanatic scum, lunatics and just ***. At the very moment when your colony will cease to be miserable, poor and insignificant, starving, experiencing a constant shortage of basic resources, ALL of them turn on you. Local factions whant you and your colonies miserable, poor and, in perfect world, dead. So, dont worry. You can do it at any moment, jsut be shure that your economics can withstand constant assaults from your dear neighbors.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 16, 2020, 04:27:06 PM
If you've got four orbital works with pristine nanoforges in them there shouldn't be anything that can hurt your colonies, provided that you've actually bothered to put up stations and system patrols - especially system patrols, since their size and quality goes up with the power of your industry.  Best of all is the fact that all your patrols benefit from this and not just the ones coming from that particular planet with the orbital works - even if they're in a different system.

But on that note I should also add that, for defense purposes, stacking all your colonies into a single system is the best strategy, even if better candidates lay elsewhere.  This is so that enemies have to run a gauntlet of your forces rather than just one or two patrols.  I've often come back after month-long journeys to find my home system is completely saturated in enemy wrecks.  I've literally spent weeks of in-game time just cleaning up the debris from their endless failed raiding attempts. 

And on that note I really wish someone would have a "just give up already" game mechanic that tells a faction that after three failed attacks to just stop trying, at least until they can buff their own fleet sizes first or something.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Gregorovitch on February 17, 2020, 02:03:54 AM
And on that note I really wish someone would have a "just give up already" game mechanic that tells a faction that after three failed attacks to just stop trying, at least until they can buff their own fleet sizes first or something.

I am guessing that you couldn't care less about the rep hits you get from these failed raids then?
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Cyber Von Cyberus on February 17, 2020, 03:30:59 AM
And on that note I really wish someone would have a "just give up already" game mechanic that tells a faction that after three failed attacks to just stop trying, at least until they can buff their own fleet sizes first or something.

I am guessing that you couldn't care less about the rep hits you get from these failed raids then?
Honestly, not really. It's the same rep hit as if a patrol catches you and scolds you for being a bad boy and using the black market, a couple of Gamma cores and it's all forgiven.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Gregorovitch on February 17, 2020, 06:01:17 AM
And on that note I really wish someone would have a "just give up already" game mechanic that tells a faction that after three failed attacks to just stop trying, at least until they can buff their own fleet sizes first or something.

I am guessing that you couldn't care less about the rep hits you get from these failed raids then?
Honestly, not really. It's the same rep hit as if a patrol catches you and scolds you for being a bad boy and using the black market, a couple of Gamma cores and it's all forgiven.

Well in response to this issue I decided it was high time I had access to some **** off battleships (which I had no blueprints for yet, and why I was freaking out about this rep business) so instead of tugging the forelock to these factions for some measly rep boosts I headed out into the badlands beyond my colony system in search of some tech. I stumbled across a Colossus blueprint first and then a Paragon one. With all my upgraded military bases and orbital heavy industry and pristine nanoforges and whatnot I seem to get an elite Paragon raider for a measly 500k Cr.

That appears to fit the description of a **** off battleship to me, I've just ordered a second one in fact, so I'm feeling even less inclined to tug the forelock at this point, more inclined to inquire who wants some.
Title: Re: I'm nervous about when to start heavy industry
Post by: Aereto on February 21, 2020, 12:52:16 PM

Well in response to this issue I decided it was high time I had access to some **** off battleships (which I had no blueprints for yet, and why I was freaking out about this rep business) so instead of tugging the forelock to these factions for some measly rep boosts I headed out into the badlands beyond my colony system in search of some tech. I stumbled across a Colossus blueprint first and then a Paragon one. With all my upgraded military bases and orbital heavy industry and pristine nanoforges and whatnot I seem to get an elite Paragon raider for a measly 500k Cr.

That appears to fit the description of a **** off battleship to me, I've just ordered a second one in fact, so I'm feeling even less inclined to tug the forelock at this point, more inclined to inquire who wants some.
When I had the Valkyrie blueprints, I pretty much stealth raided the heavy industries of almost each faction after a few trips to derelict stations to make sure I don't miss anything. I decivilize those colonies once the blueprints run dry, so their expeditions are severely weakened.