Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: DanJSC on March 16, 2012, 02:56:35 PM
-
I'm watching the fifth TGS podcast and i don't really feel i need to say all that much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGPPH0r_JKI
1:43:33
Basically, in the future when the game has much more content, there would be a chance for players to enter the system you're in, combat and other interactions may ensue, such as alliances & co-operation / trading / etc.
What are your thoughts?
-
i probably wouldn't like it... fleets are expensive
but, as discussed previously, it's not easy to implement multiplayer
the kind of multiplayer you are suggesting would be even more difficult
just think about the size of the development team a bit
-
I believe the game mentioned in the podcast is an indie game also, and it doesn't really matter about team size, only time spent.
-
I believe the game mentioned in the podcast is an indie game also, and it doesn't really matter about team size, only time spent.
nothing is more true than this. (from having followed a few indie games)
As for what to do with MP. id love a co-op as the AI captains make me want to stab myself in the eyes sometimes.
-
I believe the game mentioned in the podcast is an indie game also, and it doesn't really matter about team size, only time spent.
nothing is more true than this. (from having followed a few indie games)
This is certainly true, but I'm not sure that actually means very much. Any time spent working on one thing is time not spent on another. The SP aspect of the game can take literally as much time as can possibly be devoted to making it better - and then some. So, having MP would detract from the SP experience for that reason alone - and there are other reasons why it would, as well.
-
This is certainly true, but I'm not sure that actually means very much. Any time spent working on one thing is time not spent on another. The SP aspect of the game can take literally as much time as can possibly be devoted to making it better - and then some. So, having MP would detract from the SP experience for that reason alone - and there are other reasons why it would, as well.
Then why not to create/implement Multiplayer after Singleplayer was finished and polished?
When you will finish Singleplayer content completely, you already will know what and where you need implement in order for Multiplayer to be successful with many different modes.
Personally, I see a limitless possibilities when Multiplayer will be available, for example instead of finishing campaign 105th time, player starts server with "campaign" mode, where players can fight for domination, or something like that.
-
In part because of the "other reasons".
MP and SP have very different design goals. What's balanced, what's fun, what kind of mechanics make it so - these are all very different. You'd have to make a lot of compromises in the design to accommodate both. Frequently, games that try end up with a highly flawed version of one or the other. Either the SP is a training ground for MP, or the MP is an "oh yeah, we've got that too!" afterthought.
Besides, MP isn't just something you can tack on later - lots of core code has to be designed and built with it in mind. You could bring up the mod that added MP to Morrowind as a counter-example, but even though it works, it also exposes the problems with that approach.
In short, it's just not going to happen :)
-
In part because of the "other reasons".
MP and SP have very different design goals. What's balanced, what's fun, what kind of mechanics make it so - these are all very different. You'd have to make a lot of compromises in the design to accommodate both. Frequently, games that try end up with a highly flawed version of one or the other. Either the SP is a training ground for MP, or the MP is an "oh yeah, we've got that too!" afterthought.
Besides, MP isn't just something you can tack on later - lots of core code has to be designed and built with it in mind. You could bring up the mod that added MP to Morrowind as a counter-example, but even though it works, it also exposes the problems with that approach.
In short, it's just not going to happen :)
I have but one response to this....
:(
-
In part because of the "other reasons".
MP and SP have very different design goals. What's balanced, what's fun, what kind of mechanics make it so - these are all very different. You'd have to make a lot of compromises in the design to accommodate both. Frequently, games that try end up with a highly flawed version of one or the other. Either the SP is a training ground for MP, or the MP is an "oh yeah, we've got that too!" afterthought.
Besides, MP isn't just something you can tack on later - lots of core code has to be designed and built with it in mind. You could bring up the mod that added MP to Morrowind as a counter-example, but even though it works, it also exposes the problems with that approach.
In short, it's just not going to happen :)
Not to mention how awkward the whole "Pausing to give orders" thing would be in multiplayer.
Besides, in it's current state, almost the entire multiplayer setup would revolve around people in High Tech ships curb-stomping everyone in Low-Tech ships. Or everyone being in High Tech ships, period.
-
The only thing that I can think of is gratuitous space battles multi player style might fit here.
Been a while so it may of changed, but essentially you set up a battlegroup and you sent it out like a mission.
Thats really the only way I can see it happening here. We dont even have more than two sides fighting at once in combat right now, if ever.
-
I'm glad your focusing on the single player aspect, I like the idea. I think the vision of the game experience you have is beautiful in and of itself, I don't believe MP would add much either.
I'm fascinated by Starfarer, it's a gem of a title. This has 90's era game quality written all over it, from a time and age when games were more intimate and personal.
Syndicate, X-Com, Master of Orion, and a few other unique games that were crafted so powerfully. They would immerse you in a beautiful little sandbox and let you lose yourself for hours on end in some one else dreams of an alternate reality. MP would destroy immersion or suspense of disbelief.
So far I am blown away by the quality and attention to detail of the well thought out game mechanics. I am very interested to see the end result.
Just my 2 cents
-
I honestly think multiplayer would not give much to this game. I mean, the current hound ai is better than some players I personally know. If you keep updating ai to get much better, multiplayer will just be a burden to the game ;).
-
In short, it's just not going to happen :)
For now yes, but later on you will start thinking about adding it :)
-
How difficult would a very basic MP be to set up?
For example, single-ship duels between players. They get the same ship and face off.
-
As far as I know, it's two languages being used, or at least, the one used for online games uses a different protocol than the one written for single player. So I think he'd have to rewrite most of it from the start. It would probably go faster due to him figuring out the mechanics in abstract for single player, but it's still a butt load of work from my understanding.
-
The hard thing about multiplayer does not have much to do with the language used. Java is just fine for that. The problem with multiplayer is synchronisation. You've got two (or more) simulations running on different machines on different sides of the planet, and you have to make sure they are in exactly the same state. The wiring needed for that goes through the entire program and is not something that is easy to add afterwards. Especially for a game where quick response is important.
-
In short, it's just not going to happen Smiley
:< damn.
Not even a co-op mode.
Please, even something so simple as cortex commands "local only, gamepads + 1 mouse and keyboard" Split screen.
Whelp this is certainly depressing.
-
The hard thing about multiplayer does not have much to do with the language used. Java is just fine for that. The problem with multiplayer is synchronization. You've got two (or more) simulations running on different machines on different sides of the planet, and you have to make sure they are in exactly the same state. The wiring needed for that goes through the entire program and is not something that is easy to add afterwards. Especially for a game where quick response is important.
Synchronization is not a problem, when peer to peer multiplayer used.
And as far as my knowledge in programming language goes (and it goes far), implementing multiplayer in Java or C# written software is much easier then doing it with C, C++, Python, ASM, etc.
Anyway lets give Alex to focus on finishing Starfarer. And when it will be finished completely, Alex will understand that something is definitely missing in Starfarer's main menu :)
-
Nowadays everybody is behind a NAT box, making peer-to-peer a pain in the behind. But in my experience with building mp games, even with p2p networking synchronisation is far from trivial, especially if you want to do it in a way that is not prone to cheating.
-
im somewhere in the middle of the two groups here:
no multiplayer and yay multiplayer lets go nuts.
the ONLY way i could ever see MP working from a gameplay standing would be straight up co-op. For individual missions the TWO players pick which of the ship lineup they would want if they pick the same ship dice roll/coin flip handled BY THE GAME ITSELF. in the case of single ship missions IE the one with the lone paragon ) i cannot bloody remember the name of it) that mission simply is not available for co-op. for campaign co-op your fleet starts with 2 starter ships one is player 1's flagship and one is player 2's flagship. when one is brought into combat they are both brought in for their costs. possibly to offset that everything in co-op is doubled, size of AI fleets, cost of ships, fleet points. pausing the game to give out orders could be relatively simple every battle the seat of the "commander" switches from player to player for example player 1 has initial control of the movements on campaign map and in battle he gives orders then after that battle player 2 would become the "commander" and takes over the same controls. Also any kind of matchmaking simple won't work outside of missions and even then.. it would have to be pretty much just friends playing co-op mode. but even if MP never gets in not even by a modder i will still be extremely satisfied with my purchase :D
-
The whole pausing and identifying strategies system would break in a multiplayer system.
And you think chasing a slightly smaller pirate fleet around the galaxy is annoying wait until you've been chased all over by a giant troll fleet. MP, while a noble idea for this game, just wouldn't work.
-
Im against multiplayer in most SP games, since most of the games that tries too do both usually fails pretty hard on atleast 1(quite often 2). I rather have a good experience "alone" than a bad one with friends lol :)
Some1 used morrowind as example, it just made the game worse imo, i see no reason too diminish my Sp experience too have a tacked on MP.
Feel free too prove me wrong though ;)