Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on October 08, 2019, 01:49:49 PM

Title: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on October 08, 2019, 01:49:49 PM
This is just a small collection of ships designed to make the Pirate blueprint package more attractive, and give Pirates themselves some more options.

First up, the Pirate Ox, which trades hull integrity and armour for an in-built efficiency hullmod:
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9d676854-ca16-4cea-9099-fd954e997e6d/ddhvmd3-ae600159-d752-4ce0-ad64-9434813b4bb1.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzlkNjc2ODU0LWNhMTYtNGNlYS05MDk5LWZkOTU0ZTk5N2U2ZFwvZGRodm1kMy1hZTYwMDE1OS1kNzUyLTRjZTAtYWQ2NC05NDM0ODEzYjRiYjEucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.9IP4bKz7TAzQbskTbIjtmKPlu99-cvQgZHT6TTUcDvg)

Then we have the Chimera Frigate, cobbled together from parts of other ships. It's fast and adaptable, but lacks any form of rearward defence:
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9d676854-ca16-4cea-9099-fd954e997e6d/ddgkd9i-e40fdb1d-8172-45eb-9714-c8c2cbe0d698.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzlkNjc2ODU0LWNhMTYtNGNlYS05MDk5LWZkOTU0ZTk5N2U2ZFwvZGRna2Q5aS1lNDBmZGIxZC04MTcyLTQ1ZWItOTcxNC1jOGMyY2JlMGQ2OTgucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.yGq83QgwMbzTRDN-LPllRjLqMnzj2UXW455uWt_HMMU)

Thirdly, we have the Monitor Mk.II, gutting the ship of its silly weapon mounts and most of its internals for its very own hanger bay:
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9d676854-ca16-4cea-9099-fd954e997e6d/ddhvmcu-d4609748-b682-47ca-b52a-14fc5be696a8.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzlkNjc2ODU0LWNhMTYtNGNlYS05MDk5LWZkOTU0ZTk5N2U2ZFwvZGRodm1jdS1kNDYwOTc0OC1iNjgyLTQ3Y2EtYjUyYS0xNGZjNWJlNjk2YTgucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.SChWbV_1S2qphnQ9uG-RxwMrclB4OJXlMc2iTBqVxp8)

And finally we have the big boy, the Citadel-class Light Battleship. Slow and clunky, this behemoth focuses on putting as much lead at the enemy as possible, from as far as possible:
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9d676854-ca16-4cea-9099-fd954e997e6d/ddhvmch-22a7b7d7-94bf-4944-9bcf-b3644e7cf065.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzlkNjc2ODU0LWNhMTYtNGNlYS05MDk5LWZkOTU0ZTk5N2U2ZFwvZGRodm1jaC0yMmE3YjdkNy05NGJmLTQ5NDQtOWJjZi1iMzY0NGU3Y2YwNjUucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.gkwXh8EKK9lXJDaqDmuao10X0mxUY3V6j7J_9wxpERM)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Pirate Collection
Post by: BigBeans on October 08, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
Not had a chance to play with the new ships yet but straight away I think you'll need to tone down the brightness/Saturation on the Red Parts of the Monitor MKII as it's much brighter than the Pirate red on other ships, both modded and vanilla.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on October 12, 2019, 07:59:48 AM
It's a similar red to the Afflictor and Cerberus.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: unleashed118 on October 13, 2019, 03:17:22 AM
Made an account just to say those ships look really cool, can't wait to try them out, thanks for making em man.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on October 13, 2019, 04:17:50 AM
Made an account just to say those ships look really cool, can't wait to try them out, thanks for making em man.
While I appreciate it, I can't claim much credit, as they're only basic kitbashes or minor edits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Course on October 13, 2019, 01:28:18 PM
There is an issue with Citadel class hullmod balance. Targeting Supercomputer which extends range of regular weapons up to 250% isn't really intended for player usage. I know that it is in fact a piece of station with engines, but main issue is that you could strap Integrated Targeting Unit on it and gain the whole 350% range + approximately 160% of PD range which is hilariously OP. Needs fixing, for example, you might want to consider to add something like "Salvaged Targeting Supercomputer" hullmod which extends weapon range for, let's say, 150-200%, but conflicts with DTC or ITU or something like that.

Also i don't get why Chimera getting high maint hullmod despite being usual destroyer or something.

Besides those two issues your mod is really cool and kitbash is great quality in fact, keep it up.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on October 13, 2019, 01:56:07 PM
There is an issue with Citadel class hullmod balance. Targeting Supercomputer which extends range of regular weapons up to 250% isn't really intended for player usage. I know that it is in fact a piece of station with engines, but main issue is that you could strap Integrated Targeting Unit on it and gain the whole 350% range + approximately 160% of PD range which is hilariously OP. Needs fixing, for example, you might want to consider to add something like "Salvaged Targeting Supercomputer" hullmod which extends weapon range for, let's say, 150-200%, but conflicts with DTC or ITU or something like that.
It's been something I've considered, but I've yet to see it actually be an issue (most likely due to a limited playtest sample). What I found was that it's slow speed means that, even stacking range boosts, the enemy either easily gets away, or closes to their weapon range quickly. There is a similar hullmod I could swap it to (I don't actually know how to make a hullmod >.< ) if it does become an issue.

Quote
Also i don't get why Chimera getting high maint hullmod despite being usual destroyer or something.
Partially thematics, the Chimera is literally parts of other ships wielded together after all, and partially because it's one of the fastest frigates and it can fit nearly any weapon.

Quote
Besides those two issues your mod is really cool and kitbash is great quality in fact, keep it up.
Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: NephilimNexus on December 16, 2019, 06:29:04 PM
Y'know, half serious and half for laughs, I've always wanted to see a bunch of pirate ships that looked oddly similar in shape to top-down views of old earth wooden ships and focused all their weapons into ballistics and broadside mounts.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on December 20, 2019, 01:55:45 PM
Y'know, half serious and half for laughs, I've always wanted to see a bunch of pirate ships that looked oddly similar in shape to top-down views of old earth wooden ships and focused all their weapons into ballistics and broadside mounts.
I've actually had one in the planning stages for quite a while.
Or rather, a civilian one that reduces the negative effects of deep hyperspace (and possibly storms), which happens to have a pirate version by that aesthetic.

Although the upcoming update will focus more on the rest of the starbase the Citadel was ripped from (and boy is that one enjoyable, if hard to pilot), as well as welding two ships together to get another chimera (this one by the name of Hippogriff).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: NephilimNexus on January 01, 2020, 08:29:46 AM
Cool.  In seriousness, though, if I were designing a pirate fleet it would revolve around two ideas:

1) High speed

2) High CR decay rate

Pirate ships, by default, should be fast - their goal is to run down prey before they can escape, and for that reason they should have much faster speeds than any other ships in their equivalent weight classes.

However, also because they rely on hit and run tactics, they aren't meant for prolonged fights at all and thus (as a balance to the above) would suffer higher CR rates to reflect this.  Woe to the pirate who finds themselves in a protracted gun battle, even if they're equally matched on paper.

Ergo, per size +50% speed over contemporaries but also x2 or even x3 rate of CR decay as well.

Other note: Pretty much every civilian class pirate transport should at least be considered for the Salvage Gantry hull mod.  The reasons being that it is something pirates need more than anyone else and pirates are improvisors who probably wouldn't want to have to drag dedicated salvage ships around when they could just kitbash salvaging gear onto their cargo haulers instead.  Conversely, since pirates aren't into the whole "peaceful expansion" thing none of their ships should get survey equipment.

Finally, and not sure if this is really possible but I'll throw it out there just in case it is: Instead of the Ox Tug, pirates would use something similar as a sensor mask.  That is to say, a small ship with similar stats to an Ox Tug (i.e. non-combat, high upkeep) that would actually have an inverse detection radius (i.e. a large negative value, such as -500) that would actually lower the total detection radius of the entire fleet that they're in.  Obviously this would be for ambushes or losing pursuit and nothing more.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: duckasick on February 20, 2020, 03:16:32 AM
Quote
Cool.  In seriousness, though, if I were designing a pirate fleet it would revolve around two ideas:

1) High speed

2) High CR decay rate

I don't agree, the ludic path already has this with their safety overrides. Pirates can fly with very large fleets, and their capital, the atlas mkii isn't fast at all. The same thing can be said about the prometheus mkii, but that ship has a burn drive to make up for it. The ludic path is all about hit and run, the pirates are more about raiding and using whatever they can find, which the atlas mkii embodies perfectly. Furthermore, the pirates don't have the nanforges and blueprints to build really high end fast ships. They do if you give them blueprints, but untill then they are stuck with mostly slow low tech and maybe a couple of midline ships.

Quote
Other note: Pretty much every civilian class pirate transport should at least be considered for the Salvage Gantry hull mod.  The reasons being that it is something pirates need more than anyone else and pirates are improvisors who probably wouldn't want to have to drag dedicated salvage ships around when they could just kitbash salvaging gear onto their cargo haulers instead.

This is something I can agree with. You could make the argument that it doesn't matter, since the pirates aren't programmed to loot the things they destroy, but it would make sense for them as a faction.

Quote
Conversely, since pirates aren't into the whole "peaceful expansion" thing none of their ships should get survey equipment.

Ditto.

Quote
Finally, and not sure if this is really possible but I'll throw it out there just in case it is: Instead of the Ox Tug, pirates would use something similar as a sensor mask.  That is to say, a small ship with similar stats to an Ox Tug (i.e. non-combat, high upkeep) that would actually have an inverse detection radius (i.e. a large negative value, such as -500) that would actually lower the total detection radius of the entire fleet that they're in.  Obviously this would be for ambushes or losing pursuit and nothing more.

The ship you suggested is an interesting, but not a very good idea. Put three of them in your fleet, and you could hide 10 capitals (excluding the sensor profile of the ship that provides the bonus).

If you gave them a percentile reductions, like for example 30%, that stack in the same way the salvage gantry's bonus stack, putting four of them in a fleet of 10 onslaughts (again, excluding the sensor profile of the ship that provides the bonus), would make reduce the fleets sensor profile from 1500 to 360, (1500*0,7*0,7*0,7*0,7 = 360,15), which is completly ridiculous, while even a 10% reduction would reduce it down to 984 (1500*0,9*0,9*0,9*0,9 = 934,15), which is just way to low for a fleet like this.

The pirates of course won't put four of them in a fleet, but you can. The argument "don't use them if you don't like them." isn't a good one, because even if I don't use it, the other factions still can, which puts me at a disadvantage I got because I felt like I shouldn't use a mechanic that has a lot of flaws.

500 isn't it, and I really don't know what the upkeep for a ship like this would be, but there is probably a sweet spot for both of them. But then you run into the problem of explaining why only the pirates use it ingame. If it reduces your sensor profile, most likely every faction would want to get their hands on that ship. If everyone start using them, there isn't really a point to them anymore, since everyone will have the same reduction is sensor profile, which just makes it harder for fleets to find eachother. This only favors smugglers, but they already have it easy enough since they have the patience to go dark and fly across an entire system just to deliver 30 harvested organs. And how would a system like that even work? A jamming signal might be an explanation, but don't know how the sensors ingame work. If they work with light, you would have to create a black bubble around you entire fleet to make sure no light reflects back. And wouldn't light sensor get a lot from systems sun, and other stars? If they were radio signals, wouldn't system to system communications be jammed as well?

Some phase ships already have a phase field, which reduces their sensor profile to 0, but apart from one, every phase ship is high tech, which would limit their availability to only a couple of factions, which would give them a clear advantage. You would need to explain how pirates got their hands on them, how the phase field extends to the rest of the fleet, and how the power required could be maintained.

A reduction based on fleet size might work, where smaller fleets get a bigger bonus then large fleets, but then it would result in smugglers and small merchants having an even easier time to get around, which kind of breaks the idea that the sector is a dangerous place for small fleets.


---
This became a lot bigger than I thought, whoops...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: saif ag on June 01, 2020, 03:41:34 AM
why is the download link deleted?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: MesoTroniK on June 01, 2020, 08:49:43 PM
That is done periodically to forum attachments, so it should be hosted on a different site instead... That is also wise because attachments can only be downloaded by users with forum accounts.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on June 06, 2020, 05:53:10 AM
Well... damn.
I'll try and harvest it off of my old harddrive, and then host it externally.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on June 14, 2020, 12:27:30 PM
I am unable to salvage it in the condition it was released, so as a temporary measure, anyone who does have it, please feel free to host it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Xobra on June 28, 2020, 10:29:18 AM
Any news on the file? I just discovered this mod, and wanted to try it out.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on June 28, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
I can try and back-engineer a stable version (the one I currently have has a lot of unfinished stuff in it), give me... IDK, five minutes?

Alright, this should have all the in-testing stuff (namely the Hippogriff and the Atlas Mk III) disabled: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1diBJMrSTbpwash6tqhDYKk9ZnbFnZ0I3/view?usp=sharing
(First time hosting on google drive, tell me if it doesn't work)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Xobra on June 28, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
Download worked; GDrive is a good for hosting, as long as it is not too large, or you have a new account for the extra 15GB storage; if you need other hsot/project sites sites, maybe try setting up one at GitHub? It's also a good site for managing projects.

The mod itself? Idk. I loaded it in, but I can't seem to find the new ships in the Simulation. Since I started a new run, it may take a while until I actually go after pirates to see if they are using the ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Xobra on June 28, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
Little update: I saw a Citadel Class Ship on the Black Market, so the mod seems to work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on June 29, 2020, 02:56:53 PM
Hope you enjoy!
Any feedback is always welcome, as mostly my balancing is against vanilla loadouts with my attempt at imitating vanilla loadouts.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Xobra on July 08, 2020, 10:00:00 AM
The Citadel Ship looks far to small for being Capital Ship or a Station Section on Engines.
Not sure about its balancing rn, as I rip pirates apart too fast as usual, but I do like the Monitor II, it can provide a nice small escort with good defense
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Crimson Sky Gaurdian on July 08, 2020, 11:19:47 AM
Rest assured, the Citadel isn't the biggest ship the Pirates can get.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: BigBeans on July 10, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
Your wip ships look interesting. Is that a modular Atlas MKIII I saw in the graphics folder?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: medikohl on July 10, 2020, 04:17:33 PM
(http://www.wolfegames.com/TA_Section/SpiralArms/plus_parrot.png) I offer you this sprite if you wish it. Was built as a capital for pirates in the past, feel free to modify it if you want.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: connortron7 on July 10, 2020, 06:06:14 PM
(http://www.wolfegames.com/TA_Section/SpiralArms/plus_parrot.png) I offer you this sprite if you wish it. Was built as a capital for pirates in the past, feel free to modify it if you want.

oh man that things brings back some memories of the olden days of starsector lol
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: medikohl on July 10, 2020, 06:19:55 PM
(http://www.wolfegames.com/TA_Section/SpiralArms/plus_parrot.png) I offer you this sprite if you wish it. Was built as a capital for pirates in the past, feel free to modify it if you want.

oh man that things brings back some memories of the olden days of starsector lol
yeah definitely was a favorite of mine when I built it, gave it a bad shield damage ratio and a coverage gap on the rear, but it was one of the only large ballistic turret ships so definitely filled a niche, had lots of short overlapping arcs with weapons instead of wide.arcs with a few weapons
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: Leif on October 16, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
Hi folks. I still have a version of the mod if y'all need it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: SukmaZaki on October 16, 2020, 07:20:21 PM
I can try and back-engineer a stable version (the one I currently have has a lot of unfinished stuff in it), give me... IDK, five minutes?

Alright, this should have all the in-testing stuff (namely the Hippogriff and the Atlas Mk III) disabled: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1diBJMrSTbpwash6tqhDYKk9ZnbFnZ0I3/view?usp=sharing
(First time hosting on google drive, tell me if it doesn't work)

^^^
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Pirate Collection
Post by: BigBeans on October 25, 2020, 08:08:56 PM
Did you ever get around to finishing those wip ships?