Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: mendonca on June 07, 2011, 02:25:44 PM



Title: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on June 07, 2011, 02:25:44 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/tQRUjvF.gif) (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6jziyovi2wjb7xy/JP_RC_272.zip?dl=0)
Click the picture to download! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6jziyovi2wjb7xy/JP_RC_272.zip?dl=0) Unzip in to the Mods directory of 0.8.1a, and let me know what you think!

What is this Mod in a Nutshell?

The Junk Pirates themselves are one of the oldest mods for Starsector (even featured in a Blog Post (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2011/06/17/mod-roundup/) back in 2011!).

Is an 'integrated' DynaSector faction, and is compatible with Nexerelin. Requires Graphicslib.

Contains many small contributions from the community and a couple of significant ones from others:

MUSIC from Versus The Ghost (https://versustheghost.bandcamp.com/)

SOUNDS by MesoTroniK (all custom weapon sounds)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/AvqEOtmpGN6wM/giphy.gif) (https://media.giphy.com/media/WkiXxURgMxhDi/giphy.gif)

The Three New Factions
  • Junk Pirates - 23+ ships, with original artwork, covering all aspects of the StarSector fleets. Asymmetric and unusual arrangements, but easily underestimated.
  • Post Anarchist Canis Kollective (P.A.C.K.) - 12+ individual ships with numerous additional high-end skins, all original artwork. Limited larger ships (one cruiser + one light capital) and currently no carrier capability. A bit of a 'challenge' Faction - or one for the destroyer-lovers.
  • Associated Starline Parcels (ASP) Syndicate - Mini-faction created as part of a forum initiative some time ago, continue to be maintained as part of this mod. 6 original ships total (and a few vanilla skins), the faction mainly adds flavour and not too distinct from vanilla when e.g. played in Exerelin.

(http://i.imgur.com/yTORbj7.png)

Read on for more fluff (and check out the PACK thread in my signature for even more fluff around the imaginary history of this faction).

----------------

How do I play with these? What can I expect when playing as / against these ships?

JUNK PIRATES
The main design philosophy when creating the Junk Pirates was/is to create unusual ships, with atypical and asymmetrical loadouts. There is however a 'spine' of more typical ships to make playing as them not completely frustrating, and generally if trying to play successfully as the Junk Pirates you might want to start by basing your fleet around the following:

(https://i.imgur.com/pvHn4pu.png)

The Satsuma is flexible and mobile, and can be a good hunter-killer destroyer. The Boxenstein is very sturdy, with lots of forward-facing weaponry - but suffers in mobility. The Clementine and Mandarine-class frigates are decently survivable, and have enough weaponry to at least stand up to Vanilla.

Don't expect the Sickle and the Hammer to act as generalists; but in either case they do have their niche (Sickle is super fast and can pack a decent punch - save a few to deploy late in a battle for quick support; Hammer carries a medium missile mount so can be very dangerous as a support vessel).

Fighters are an okay option for the JP fleet - with the Orca being a capable carrier and all the fighters being able to hold their own.

(https://i.imgur.com/keEWzzR.png)

PACK

The design philosophy for PACK has been to create a set of fleet members who, when combined, outweigh the value of the individual players - i.e. the sum is greater than the whole of it's parts.

I think it works, to an extent, and generally mixed fleets are more effective than simpler fleets.

Take for example:
(https://i.imgur.com/hfmZWa4.png)

In this fleet, we decided to take a couple of Schnauzer-class frigates. These operate similar to 'Safety Override' ships (without the CR downsides) and consequently have high mobility and high flux handling. They are, however, paper thin - but the base level of mobility and flux efficiency gives them some level of survivability. Depending on fit-out - they can bring some high-alpha or some generalist support with her all-round energy mounts.

Supplement them with a Pitbull - which has high alpha-damage potential from four small missile mounts, decent resilience from high armour, good pinning potential from the kinetic barrage of her built-in Ripsaw - and the fleet becomes much stronger. The Schnauzer and the Pitbull are somewhat reliant on each other - as the Pitbull can't get close to anything that isn't harassed / distracted - and the Schnauzer can't stand toe-to-toe against many things without high levels of personal danger.

This fleet also has a BRT (an Escort Destroyer with good point defense capabilities), which can be a good defensive choice - to give respite to the Pitbull and hopefully field against smaller / more mobile threats.

The Labrador is included to handle some logistics for the fleet, but also has a FELIX drone to provide on-field interference; minor support; and can operate fairly safely in a retreat condition with her burn drive.

Also note that each one of these craft will perform poorly on their own, and it can be difficult to field a very small PACK fleet that maintains a decent level of combat effectiveness.

OR if we are feeling like we should go all customized:
(https://i.imgur.com/aYAZXCO.png)

We are immediately stronger due to the PACK Custom-shops having wide-ranging nett positive benefits (so comparable base ship vs. any of the Canebianco / Caomarelo / Rothund will always be worse; in differing amounts and against different comparable strengths).

The Bedlington (CB), a high-tech modified version of the standard, has a much improved shield (although now locked to front, it covers about 300°). This also has an Ion-drone following it around (as a built-in wing), basically a free ion cannon. It's a great disruptive force - and can be built around the front-locked medium energy for support or alpha-strike hit and run. It's super-quick, and with an efficient shield it can survive some abuse. It's even lighter than the Schnauzer, and will almost entirely buckle under the weight of just a single stray Harpoon MRM.

So we've taken a Komondor (RH), a heavily armoured version of the standard Komondor. The Komondor has lots of forward facing universal mounts, and an Accelerated Ammo Feeder, which forces some real decisions to be made in how it is kitted out - but it can be a pretty decent generalist combatant and can use the distraction of the Bedlington to close in on individual ships to finish them off with perhaps high-alpha missiles or a collection of front facing ballistics pushing out ordnance on overdrive.

The Ridgeback-X (RH) and the Caomarelo Samoyed are included primarily as logistic support, but (as per the Labrador) there is a pair of FELIX drones on board the Ridgeback to provide interference; and a decent enough weapons package to contribute generally - perhaps safer operating in a close support role. The Samoyed is quick enough to avoid a lot of trouble (including an on-board burn drive), but a missile-centric loadout skews this particular model in to a more specialist combat role, and may not be deployed most of the time.

Again, particularly with the 'Logistics' ships - these will struggle on their own - but work okay as a team.


ASP
TBC

----------------

Any criticism, constructive or just plain rude, is more than welcome in this thread. Go for it, but hope you have fun.

current version 2.72 - 0.8.1a compatibility update; with balance adjustments from 2.70 & 2.71


Title: Re: Graphics and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: Alex on June 07, 2011, 03:25:37 PM
Nice! Second mission seems way difficult, but I have to admit I'm sleepy and didn't try very hard.

I'd love to see a mission or two that lets you control the pirate ships. It would be awesome to have a first-hand look at all your ships - fighting against them makes me want to pilot them all the more.


Title: Re: Graphics and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: mendonca on June 08, 2011, 02:51:16 AM
The second mission is too difficult I think.

It's supposed to be suggestive of Hegemony arrogance, and therefore hard, but I'm not sure if the Hegemony fleet even carries enough firepower to down all the fighters, never mind the new destroyer. Those MIRVs are deadly against the Hegemony ships, as well.

And I forgot to turn Spikes in to FIGHTERS. I'll probably drop their deceleration and lower the armor rating slightly as well. Maybe delete a Dugong, see how that plays out.

And I will definitely get a Pirate mission in soon.

Maybe do the one where they captured the Onslaught in the first place.


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: mendonca on June 08, 2011, 02:12:48 PM
Bumpity bump ... Play as the pirates, capture the onslaught! More tweaks, three missions now billed as 'medium'.


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: Avan on June 08, 2011, 02:59:55 PM
sweet - I'll try them out in a bit.


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: Avan on June 08, 2011, 04:36:34 PM
ok, I had some really weird issues on the onslaught capturing one...

1) your asteroid field was kinda funkily going right off the map (dimensions are wrong)
2) I suddenly /switched to commanding the enemy forces/ in the middle of the battle O_O (I think its an error in that you set it so that the onslaught was set to be commanded by the player (the last argument should be set to false, not true)

yep - here it is:       api.addToFleet(FleetSide.ENEMY, "onslaught_Standard", FleetMemberType.SHIP, "HSS Achilles", true);

that should be changed to false.


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: mendonca on June 08, 2011, 10:32:32 PM
Thanks Avan. I Appreciate it.

I didn't notice this in my limited playtesting.

(e: oh by the way, file is updated with changes)


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: Alex on June 09, 2011, 07:21:01 PM
Had a chance to play around with this as part of testing the 0.34a release candidates.

Some feedback:
- The Dugong is a really fun ship. I love its broadside, just sends so much ordnance flying. Really a fan of asymmetrical designs, they add some twists to the gameplay.
- The last mission's name doesn't quite fit in the allotted space
- The last mission, the enemy is set to "ESCAPE" - which is cool, because the AI finally knows about that. But, due to a quirk, military ships will try to retreat a bit too early if there are no civilian ships around. If you add a "tarsus_Standard" or some such to the fleet, it'll behave more intelligently.
- I'd put the download link and instructions near the top of the OP. The post is long enough so that the download link is below the bottom of the screen when you first click on it.

Great stuff overall, really enjoyed it. Well, the last mission - didn't have a chance to play the first two beyond the first time I'd tried 'em :)


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: Avan on June 09, 2011, 07:36:55 PM
Oh, minor bit of feedback from me: the dugong would really be classed as a cruiser, not a destroyer, based on its size ;)


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: calmforce on June 11, 2011, 09:11:42 AM
Very interesting and fun mod. Only one question: are the ships in the third mission supposed to fight the player or to run away? They are running away currently.


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: tinsoldier on June 11, 2011, 11:44:55 PM
Very interesting and fun mod. Only one question: are the ships in the third mission supposed to fight the player or to run away? They are running away currently.

I was wondering about that, I thought that maybe my brilliant strategy scared'em off.  Oh well  :P

I thought the missions were quite fun and I enjoyed fighting against the new ships.  They look quite nice.  The lot of you have put together some fun mods, this bodes well for Starfarer's future!


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: mendonca on June 12, 2011, 10:35:26 AM
Thanks for all the feedback, chaps, I appreciate it.  :)

On the 'escape' mechanic, I think I need to add a civilian ship to make them behave less wimpy.

Whilst I did test that level a few times, I didn't notice it as I was only really thinking about getting to, and stopping the Onslaught. I'm not a very good tester, clearly.

And I'll see if I can spend some time tweaking it soon, polishing some of the ships, graphics and adding the boxer destroyer to a fourth mission.


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: mendonca on June 16, 2011, 12:00:21 PM
Bumping as I have tweaked based on feedback, and added a new mission - 'Walk in the park'

Location: Breh'inni 3
Date: 207.10.13

Our simple transfer of our new gunboats has apparently hit a little bit of a snag. We've just left Breh'inni 2, on our way back to the King and a small and previously undetected Tri-Tachyon detachment seems to be nosing about.

It's clear that they've detected us. It's clear that can't happen.

Ready the munitions and silence them, but protect our new destroyers at all costs.


DEPLOYMENT:
(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/images/boxers.jpg)


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: tinsoldier on June 16, 2011, 04:59:08 PM
I like'em.  They feel decently agile but packed a pretty good punch.  I like having a blend of long/short range weapons too.


Title: Re: New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a - 'Junk Pirates'
Post by: mendonca on June 22, 2011, 12:15:19 AM
It's barely worth a bump, but the mod has been updated to now have a couple of extra weapons.

SCATTER PD LASER - Modified PD laser. Fires an innaccurate burst of short range bolts of energy. Providing point defense on the Sickles and the Boxer. Can be useful as for close quarters fighting, if you can get close enough.

CUTLASS - Two modified tactical lasers bolted together and souped up to fire bolts of energy. Fires in bursts of 4, can be powerful but can also eat through the flux. Careful using it on a small ship with the shields up. Currently on the Sickle (Assault), also provided for the Hammerhead flagship on the first Hegemony missions.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a
Post by: Dibuk on June 22, 2011, 01:02:48 AM
I like the mission, ships and weapons very much! They very nicely balanced I think, and fun to use.
  The only thing I could point at was (For me) they did not seem "junky" enough, a bit to shiney. You know...

All in an, a very nice mod!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a
Post by: mendonca on June 22, 2011, 02:12:42 AM
Thanks!

Yeah, I agree with you on the 'Junkiness'. I've thought for a while that I should spend a bit of time making them look a lot 'rougher'.

The trouble is, I'm obviously not confident / happy in doing the sort of stuff that I think it needs. Oh well, I suppose I need to get my hands dirty at some point if I want to get them right ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a
Post by: Dibuk on June 22, 2011, 02:35:43 AM
I think what you really need it the color RUST, and a few loose panels and armorplates, and they'd be perfect!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a
Post by: mendonca on June 22, 2011, 01:06:24 PM
The king took delivery of the Boxer destroyers, but he hated them. He's taken them both away to his workshop to try and make some use of them ...

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/images/boxenstein.png)

I quite like this version. It kicks some royal ass, especially one-on-one, but any sort of group tactics can expose it's weak rear quite readily. Also as you can see, he likes to face the enemy with his shield down to make use of his powerful front facing energy weapons (and not risk overloading). Thankfully his good armor allows him to take at least a small battering to the face.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.34a
Post by: Trylobot on July 01, 2011, 12:46:58 PM
I love the Dugong ;D, the broadsides it delivers are devastating and fun.

I notice though that collisions seem a bit sketchy; you might want to test your bounding polygon extents to make sure its reflected in the game the way you drew it. I think it was when my Dugong ran into a Cleet and it didn't collide where I thought it would.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on December 15, 2011, 10:14:05 AM
Bump. I meant to update this months ago, and here we are. Just got it working with 0.35a (see OP), some new weapons I think since last time, but no other major content.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Zarcon on December 15, 2011, 10:50:01 AM
Bump. I meant to update this months ago, and here we are. Just got it working with 0.35a (see OP), some new weapons I think since last time, but no other major content.

Awesome!  :)  I'll give it a shot asap.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Thana on December 15, 2011, 11:32:04 AM
Played through the two first missions by now. Seems pretty fun, though the cutlass weapon may be overpowered. (Or it may not - I don't have that strong a grasp on the game's balancing yet, but it did seem to chew through the Onslaught a fair deal faster than the assault chainguns - which are high explosive, so the best at tearing through targets whose armour has been pierced - were.

I also noted that all but two of the missions seemed to have been coded with erroneous ship variants - "lasher_support", which doesn't exist - that I take to have been intended as "lasher_CS", which is the close support variant of the Lasher frigate.


Edit: I just realised how critical my post seemed. Don't take this to mean I didn't enjoy the stuff - I did! It's good having new Starfarer missions to play after such a long time of only having the old ones! (Of which I've won all but Dire Straits, which continues to kick my ass.)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on December 15, 2011, 01:35:10 PM
Not overly critical at all! I appreciate the feedback.

I remember now trying to balance the cutlass, upping the flux cost, lowering / upping damage and flickering between ineffectual and over-effective. I think I probably ended up too strong, just because it was a bit more fun. Also if you can close in on things with the four scatter-pd weapons with the boxenstein, you shred them in seconds. Not sure myself if the low range balances them correctly either. They end up being terrible pd weapons, but good close in brawlers.

I picked up a couple of enforcer_support -> enforcer_cs changes but I didn't notice the lasher changed as well. Thanks, I'll pick that up.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Flare on December 17, 2011, 05:30:56 PM
How do you guys use the pirate carrier? If I send the mass of fighters ahead of my carrier, they tend to be destroyed before they can make it back, but if I send my carrier with them, I lose mobility not to mention that the carrier isn't exactly that good of a ship in terms of ship to ship fights.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on December 18, 2011, 09:58:16 AM
Finally had a chance to try this again, and that was a lot of fun! I really like flying around in the Sickle-class - the one with the Cutlass. The scatter pd lasers are cool - ok-ish PD if you're running away from the missiles, and great for a close-range surprise damage burst. Makes for some interesting choices, and a bit of a challenge when combined with the somewhat-sluggish maneuvering of the ship.

And of course, the Dugong puts out an impressive wall of firepower, same as before.

Was also neat seeing new features like module damage and refitting fit right in along with this :)

How do you guys use the pirate carrier? If I send the mass of fighters ahead of my carrier, they tend to be destroyed before they can make it back, but if I send my carrier with them, I lose mobility not to mention that the carrier isn't exactly that good of a ship in terms of ship to ship fights.

I just ended up using it to hold down the farthest-back objective. Not a lot of fighters made it - in fact, nothing but the Dugong and a Sickle survived... so not exactly a shining example of a crushing victory :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on December 18, 2011, 12:04:25 PM
Cool, glad you got to play it again!

Just a little bump as well, I've updated the mod slightly. It needed some text for the Codex to make sure it was a proper 0.35a update, and I've also added a randomised mission where you get to control a 'standard' assault Sickle alongside his friends against a (generally) larger Hegemony based fleet.

I think the mix of ships is fun (it's probably balanced towards a medium mission, sometimes easy, less occasionally hard) but let me know if anybody gets a chance to have a crack, and has any feedback. Often depends on what ships you end up getting on your side.

Also, I noticed the codex is very handy for seeing how your modded weapons fare against the other things in terms of DPS and Flux per second. I've upped the flux cost of the scatter PD to make it less of an instant close in killing machine and slightly nerfed the cutlass damage output. It's still up there with the pulse laser, but a bit less range and a bit less power. Will still destroy slower frigates that you can get on the tail of.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on December 18, 2011, 02:07:22 PM
Hmm, still getting the same problems with lasher_Support variants not being found in 4 of the missions (need to rename those to lasher_CS). Btw, I kept getting an old version of the mod until I finally downloaded it using IE - if it's not a hassle on your end, it might be helpful to put the version number in the zip filename.


As to the new mission, I got slaughtered horribly the 3-4 times I tried it. I suspect re-rolling until you get a Dugong and transferring command to it would make things significantly easier, but the Sickle feels very weak now. I mean, it can still beat up a Talon wing, if just barely - but seems to have major trouble vs any frigates. The flux buildup is just way high. In later attempts I started using it for strafing runs, using its speed to avoid staying in contact with the enemy. That was more fun - at least I wasn't getting chewed up - but wasn't terribly effective, the DPS just didn't seem to be there, even from the Cutlass.

... crap, I just realized that I'm playing in the dev version, which has flux capacity values for all the core ships increased by >50% :) That explains a lot!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on December 18, 2011, 02:52:45 PM
Oh no, I knew I forgot something. There was that, and another go at the dugong hitbox. Darn it.

I'll do a quick fix tomorrow morning and do as you suggest with the version numbering. Makes sense.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on December 18, 2011, 03:01:28 PM
Oh yeah, I thought I noticed something a bit funky with the Dugong. I think its collisionRadius circle doesn't fully contain the shieldRadius circle - some incoming fire passed through shields when it have clipped them on the outside. The collisionRadius check is used to cull collisions, so it doesn't even get to the shield check if something isn't close enough. Probably just need to up collisionRadius by 20-30 or so.

I'm guessing you were talking about the actual collision bounds on the ship though, but I hadn't noticed anything wrong with those. As long as they're mostly inside the sprite, it seems like minor inaccuracies don't stand out.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on December 18, 2011, 06:53:29 PM
Holy crap, just looked at the DPS for the scatter laser. No wonder I liked it so much - it's got the firepower of, like, 3 HILs :) With some pretty severe tradeoffs, but man can it rip things up.

Edit: Played a lot more. I like the feel of the ships - how the frigates are fast, but have really sluggish maneuvering characteristics, requiring a lot more care to fly. The Boxer and Boxenstein have a high armor-to-hull ratio, really emphasizing taking hits on undamaged armor. So much fun, really nicely done!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on December 18, 2011, 11:23:45 PM
I know, right? Thing is, I balanced it by making it spray like that whilst hopefully taking out a missile (maybe it destroys an incoming missile about 60% ?) This had the unintended consequence of making it really quite strong when it does hit, which at short range against big targets is alot. I kind of like it, and figure that if you actually care about your fleet, it will be less useful, because it's not normally good being near big ships.

Glad you enjoy playing it, i'm having fun making it :)

Tweaked and updated to .70a.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Thana on December 19, 2011, 12:07:28 AM
... crap, I just realized that I'm playing in the dev version, which has flux capacity values for all the core ships increased by >50% :) That explains a lot!

How will that interact with the decision to decrease the number of larger weapons? I hope ships don't end up too durable.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on December 19, 2011, 09:41:16 AM
Not to hijack this thread too much (sorry!)... ships will be a good bit more durable. There's another reason for it, aside from the weapon size decrease - since weapons can be disabled, the firepower exchanged in a slugging match slows down as it goes on and weapons are knocked out.

The question is, will they be too durable? It's true that fights will take a bit longer, but they will also be a lot more eventful - with weapons going offline and engines flaming out. Those all are tactical considerations (Crap, need to turn my ship so that more active weapons can fire! Need to strafe to keep in the enemies newly-blind spot where their guns got knocked out! Try a flanking maneuver to get some shots at the engines! etc). Slowing the fights down was actually necessary to give those new features some room to play out, and I think overall they're a lot more engaging now.

It's not *that* drastic of a change - an incoming bomber wing or torpedo can still ruin your day, and there are lots more ways to end up a sitting duck if you screw up. For example, losing some critical PD turrets - or your engines - can contribute to a speedy demise.

I know, right? Thing is, I balanced it by making it spray like that whilst hopefully taking out a missile (maybe it destroys an incoming missile about 60% ?) This had the unintended consequence of making it really quite strong when it does hit, which at short range against big targets is alot. I kind of like it, and figure that if you actually care about your fleet, it will be less useful, because it's not normally good being near big ships.

Glad you enjoy playing it, i'm having fun making it :)

Tweaked and updated to .70a.

Excellent, I'll check it out soon - when I need a break from coding up sundry tooltips :)

Yeah, the Boxenstein shreds anything up close, but sure pays a price. I shudder to think of the crew casualties this will induce in the campaign.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Zarcon on December 19, 2011, 12:53:37 PM
The question is, will they be too durable? It's true that fights will take a bit longer, but they will also be a lot more eventful - with weapons going offline and engines flaming out. Those all are tactical considerations (Crap, need to turn my ship so that more active weapons can fire! Need to strafe to keep in the enemies newly-blind spot where their guns got knocked out! Try a flanking maneuver to get some shots at the engines! etc). Slowing the fights down was actually necessary to give those new features some room to play out, and I think overall they're a lot more engaging now.

I'm inclined to enjoy slightly longer fights with more tactical possibilities myself.  Only time and lots of play testing will truly tell what the best balance will be, but this sounds very promising and rotating ships due to weapon/engine damage sounds like a fun layer to add to the already sound combat.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on December 20, 2011, 06:26:25 AM
It will be fascinating to get to play with the new systems, and the new levels of durability.

Although, I find enough ways to end up being a sitting duck within the current game, so I'm not sure if I'm going to enjoy* the changes too much.

*to clarify I enjoy the game alot. I'm just not very good at it. Surely that's got to be a sign of a great game, one which you lose 75% of the time and still keep coming back to?

For those interested in the mod  ;) I've updated the OP to now showcase the Junk Pirates fleet (including some graphical tweaks not yet implemented in the downloadable mod)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Lopunny Zen on December 23, 2011, 01:55:43 PM
hey...how come some of the ships say error...cant play the missions or the new ships...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on December 23, 2011, 05:05:54 PM
Did you get the latest version of the mod? I just tried it out with the release version of the game and all the missions work fine.

If you did and still have a problem, it would help if you posted the actual error message.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on December 31, 2011, 02:18:17 PM
Updated the link in the OP to now point to 0.75, now with a new heavy frigate - the Clam.

Also includes another new mission, similar in vein to 'The Wolf Pack' (frigate heavy, cut off escaping fleet).

As always, feedback welcome!

Happy New Year Starfarer Fans! (and Devs! - Ivaylo has probably already seen it in!?)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on December 31, 2011, 07:51:05 PM
That was fun, though I'm having a tough time actually beating the last mission. Not that that has much bearing on enjoyment.

I must, however, lodge an official complaint about the Clam's (lack of) firepower... ;D

Happy New Year Starfarer Fans! (and Devs! - Ivaylo has probably already seen it in!?)

Happy New Year!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 01, 2012, 11:24:08 AM
The King notes your concern. His official response is "I told you so".

I'm working on another one:

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/orca.png) (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/orca2.png)

He needs a few more guns, and they need to work better in groups together, but I'm *generally* happy with the layout. It's an armed carrier, kind of a small capital ship, provisionally dubbed 'orca' even though it looks like a snail  ???


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on January 01, 2012, 02:58:03 PM
Nice, I like it! Especially the haphazard placement of the engine nozzles, very cool.

Where are the flight decks, though? Ohh, I think I see them - on inner part of the left ring? They don't stand out quite enough imo.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 01, 2012, 03:21:28 PM
Thanks! And thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I agree with you, its clear that it needs bringing out a bit more, now you mention it.

I think I need to revisit the sprite quite a bit anyway (thinking about adding/changing weapon mounts having played a bit with it) so I'll deffo add that to the list ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 02, 2012, 01:36:57 PM
(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/Capitalship.png)

Update to 0.80! Now play with the Orca (not shown actual size)

Try the randomised junk battle to control as flagship, or play against the Junk Pirates fleet in an all new random battle.

(see OP for download link)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 03, 2012, 01:14:29 PM
Sorry everybody about the constant and bitty updates, but I keep finding things I need to change, playtesting etc. and can't help but update it.

Also I start back at work tomorrow for the New Year, so this will probably be the last one for at least a short while.

v0.81 changelist, generally:

- Realised many of my ships were cheating by equipping Heavy Machine Guns in light ballistic slots. Changed universally to light dual MGs.
- Strike sickle has been given a pair of AM Blasters, sickle has been given more flux generally, making the energy weapons slightly more effective in conjunction with the shield up.
- Added assault variant of the Orca. More offensive generally. Cyclone swapped out for a hurricane MIRV between standard and assault variants (standard is more of a defensive / fire support carrier role). Assault variant used as flagship for Randomised Junk level. Also added description for Orca hull.
- New Mission "Hold Fast!" As much as I enjoy picking on the lumbering Hegemony slagheaps in the other missions, I thought it was time that the Tri-Tachyon boys came visiting in numbers to see how the ships cope:
(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/emptyhusk.png)
The answer was: Not very well. At least not without rethinking my tactics, and I did finally beat this mission with 34%, but the Tri-Tachyon fleet are, notably, much more dangerous.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 05, 2012, 11:50:53 AM
Added a video of the gameplay to the OP, for those who might be curious and haven't bothered to download the mod, or don't have the game.

Only gives a sample of the fleet, but this screen capture lark isn't altogether fun, and it will have to do ...

http://youtu.be/ZZ1jN89dvF8 (http://youtu.be/ZZ1jN89dvF8)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Doom101 on January 15, 2012, 02:51:30 AM
Ahoy hoy! Just downloaded your mod and it looks great so far. Now you probably have no idea who i am ( lets face it why would you?) well i do video walkthroughs or LP's of games on the Youtubes and with your permission i'd like to do a little spotlight of your mod, currently rendering a sample video out right now to see how it looks and i'll post that here so you can see as well. Could take up to 40 minutes ( or longer) from this post due to slow internet speeds on my end.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 15, 2012, 03:55:16 AM
Ahoy hoy! Just downloaded your mod and it looks great so far. Now you probably have no idea who i am ( lets face it why would you?) well i do video walkthroughs or LP's of games on the Youtubes and with your permission i'd like to do a little spotlight of your mod, currently rendering a sample video out right now to see how it looks and i'll post that here so you can see as well. Could take up to 40 minutes ( or longer) from this post due to slow internet speeds on my end.

Cool!

This would be fine by me! Excited to see how you get on! :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Thana on January 15, 2012, 04:22:09 AM
One of the missions - I think it's Piece of Cake - is drastically more difficult than the stated difficulty level. The one where you have two destroyers (neither of which is allowed to be destroyed) and two wings of fighters against two enemy fighter wings and two Tempest-class frigates. I find it more difficult than all the missions marked Hard. At best, I've almost managed to destroy one of the Tempests before one of my destroyers gets wiped out. By contrasts, I've managed to beat one of the "impossible" missions without too much difficulty. But the combination of clumsy, short-range destroyers with an awkward weapons mix against the horrible Tempests just kills me every single time.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Doom101 on January 15, 2012, 04:33:09 AM
Ahoy hoy! Just downloaded your mod and it looks great so far. Now you probably have no idea who i am ( lets face it why would you?) well i do video walkthroughs or LP's of games on the Youtubes and with your permission i'd like to do a little spotlight of your mod, currently rendering a sample video out right now to see how it looks and i'll post that here so you can see as well. Could take up to 40 minutes ( or longer) from this post due to slow internet speeds on my end.

Cool!

This would be fine by me! Excited to see how you get on! :)

here's the link to the video sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Q01axlSEQ  it's private so only anyone who clicks that link can see it since its just a sample there is no commentary and its quite short, but its got 10800P, ( which seems to have failed as i was rendering it slightly it was much crisper pre-render) also youtube seems to have trouble playing it and it skips for some reason. also not sure if restarting fixed it but the junk capital ship can't auto fire its weapons? i tried in the sample to no avail.

on a side note i was playing the missions and on the first one i SEVERELY underestimated a cleat bomber squad and was one shotted by them despite having nearly empty flux with my shields up. from now on i'm making it my highest priority to either get away from those or shoot them down XD

Edit: When I'm able to ( likely sometime later today) i'll record the full spotlight for it, which WILL have commentary and be much longer any ships your very proud of and would prefer me to focus on highlighting? Myself, I quite frankly love the dugong and will likely showcase the mission to disable the onslaught and a random battle as well.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 15, 2012, 05:54:06 AM
@Thana

One of the missions - I think it's Piece of Cake - is drastically more difficult than the stated difficulty level. The one where you have two destroyers (neither of which is allowed to be destroyed) and two wings of fighters against two enemy fighter wings and two Tempest-class frigates. I find it more difficult than all the missions marked Hard. At best, I've almost managed to destroy one of the Tempests before one of my destroyers gets wiped out. By contrasts, I've managed to beat one of the "impossible" missions without too much difficulty. But the combination of clumsy, short-range destroyers with an awkward weapons mix against the horrible Tempests just kills me every single time.

Cool, I can dig that. Unfortunately sometimes I don't know whether a level is relatively hard or not, as I don't consider myself to be very good at the game, and it's difficult to get context when you are playing and replaying the levels for balance. Sounds like it might be hard then.

Incidentally, SPOILER ALERT,

try sitting defensively over the lower marker (nav buoy?), take manual control of the hypervelocity driver, kill the carrier pronto, and work with your team mate. I can beat it most times that way.

END SPOILER ALERT

And thanks for the feedback :)

@Doom101

That's cool. Not sure about the Autofire thing, works fine for me ... Also, yeah, you really need to keep an eye out for those cleats, can ruin your day, fast!

And I'm cool with whatever you show :) whatever you have the most fun with :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 16, 2012, 12:48:54 PM
One of the missions - I think it's Piece of Cake Walk in the Park - is drastically more difficult than the stated difficulty level. The one where you have two destroyers (neither of which is allowed to be destroyed) and two wings of fighters against two enemy fighter wings and two Tempest-class frigates. I find it more difficult than all the missions marked Hard. At best, I've almost managed to destroy one of the Tempests before one of my destroyers gets wiped out. By contrasts, I've managed to beat one of the "impossible" missions without too much difficulty. But the combination of clumsy, short-range destroyers with an awkward weapons mix against the horrible Tempests just kills me every single time.

Okay, I had another go (or two .. or three ...) at this, and I must concede it seems far more difficult than I remember. I just can't seem to get anywhere, despite my best efforts.

I can only suggest it is down to the AI tweaks to 0.35a, with the carrier sitting much further off the main field of battle and the Tempest pilots bringing their game to another level. I reckon it is highly likely all my other victories were in previous versions.

I shall have a think and a look at this at next time I revise the mod ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Doom101 on January 16, 2012, 07:41:46 PM
finished the full spotlight, its rendering now, i cased 2 random battles and the mission to take the HSS spaceboy, with varying results, also a brief description of each ship EXPECT (and i just noticed this in editing) the hammer, and the boxer which i didn't seem to see at all.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 17, 2012, 12:46:28 AM
finished the full spotlight, its rendering now, i cased 2 random battles and the mission to take the HSS spaceboy, with varying results, also a brief description of each ship EXPECT (and i just noticed this in editing) the hammer, and the boxer which i didn't seem to see at all.
:) Ace! Looking forward to watching it!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Doom101 on January 18, 2012, 02:35:47 AM
in approximately 120 minutes ill be putting a link here to the video, or embed if i can. not sure if i can with this forum. might be able to ill have to try.

link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic8apsY8U70

trying to figure out how to embed this now.


Edit: i'll have to make a spotlight for the game itself, for anyone not from the forums viewing this, it probably makes no fraking sense :D

Edit2: i can't figure out how to embed videos on this forum, so if you'll excuse me im going to go shoot things with lasers. and likely torpedoes.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 18, 2012, 01:53:33 PM
Just got a chance to watch it, with sound, and I really enjoyed it! (I would though, considering the very kind words you say throughout!)

There were some narrow squeaks with the torpedoes against the Onslaught ... he could have got you if his aim was a little better ...

I must admit, I'm not sure why you didn't succeed in the last mission either, I'll take a look at that, I thought I had set it up so you won the mission if you killed the Onslaught.

Would you mind if I linked to that within the OP instead of my dodgy effort?

Thanks for taking the time to record it, I think that's really cool  :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Doom101 on January 18, 2012, 06:08:04 PM
feel free to link it on the OP,  and yeah, some close scrapes on the onslaught, im just as confused as you are how i lost that mission i thought i did rather well XD  but yeah, them torpedoes...  you know i called a bomber wing on him, i dont think they ever made it to him hmmm... i wonder what happened to them.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: icepick37 on January 18, 2012, 08:02:53 PM
Need to hurry up and buy so I can play your mod, haha. It looks so awesome.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: DukeVonBathrobe on January 19, 2012, 04:13:08 PM
Just played up through a walk in a park.  Took me 4 tries to complete it, as your ships get way way out maneuvered by the tempests.  I set an escort order on my ship, and then assigned the other ship and the 2 fighter wings to all escort me.  It was a very very dangerous game of predicting the AI's attack on your friendly ship and then intercepting it for a short burst of damage if you are lucky.

In the end, the ship I was piloting ran completely out of ammo except for the PD laser weapons.  So I quickly took over the sensor array which was nearby, luckily, and charged the 1 remaining tempest at just the right moment.  With only the enemy carrier and 1 wasp squadron left, it was a pretty easy win after that...even with both of my ships at 1/3 hull left.

Probably could have kept my fighters in reserve and called them join the fight at a choice moment for a better score, but given the difficulty of that mission....pretty content with just winning, even with a crappy score of 44%.

Good work with the mod though, nice to play with some more diversity of ship layouts.  Any plans to add in smaller icons for the fleet selection window/tactical map?  It is a little strange looking at white blobs as ships, but I could get used to it.  Damn pirates and their sensor jammers.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 20, 2012, 01:04:49 AM
Just played up through a walk in a park.  Took me 4 tries to complete it, as your ships get way way out maneuvered by the tempests.  I set an escort order on my ship, and then assigned the other ship and the 2 fighter wings to all escort me.  It was a very very dangerous game of predicting the AI's attack on your friendly ship and then intercepting it for a short burst of damage if you are lucky.

In the end, the ship I was piloting ran completely out of ammo except for the PD laser weapons.  So I quickly took over the sensor array which was nearby, luckily, and charged the 1 remaining tempest at just the right moment.  With only the enemy carrier and 1 wasp squadron left, it was a pretty easy win after that...even with both of my ships at 1/3 hull left.

Probably could have kept my fighters in reserve and called them join the fight at a choice moment for a better score, but given the difficulty of that mission....pretty content with just winning, even with a crappy score of 44%.

Good work with the mod though, nice to play with some more diversity of ship layouts.  Any plans to add in smaller icons for the fleet selection window/tactical map?  It is a little strange looking at white blobs as ships, but I could get used to it.  Damn pirates and their sensor jammers.

 :)

Wow, well done on winning it. But it sounds as if you can only win it with 33% hull, and no more Hypervelocity rounds, its not really a fair fight ...

Interestingly on the icon front, I'm not sure why they don't work in 0.35a ... I meant to ask Alex about that ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: DukeVonBathrobe on January 20, 2012, 10:05:31 AM
There are probably better players than I out there who could anticipate the Ai's movements and more accurately set up a firing run.  Mostly what I did was set the hyper velocity driver and PD lasers to autofire and tried to preemptively turn into the flight path of the tempest.  The high damage does take down the tempests shields fairly quickly but it's very difficult to land a significant number of shots after that.

Since the tempests are absolutely amazing ships, I would suggest that you either improve the junk ships speed or maneuverability slightly or switch out one or both of the tempest for other frigates or a destroyer.  Actually, thinking about that....I wonder how that fight would play out versus 1 Medusa and 1 Hyperion?  Painfully, I would imagine.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on January 20, 2012, 11:17:57 AM
Interestingly on the icon front, I'm not sure why they don't work in 0.35a ... I meant to ask Alex about that ...

You have to colorize the icons and put them in
junk_pirates\graphics\junk_pirates\ships\icons\color


Also need to change the prefix to "icon2_", from just "icon". In the next version, though, the icons are all automatically generated.


As far as beating "Walk in the Park"... jeez. I have to try that again - my attempts all ended very badly. Sort of like playing "monkey in the middle" while getting shot.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: DukeVonBathrobe on January 20, 2012, 07:20:46 PM
Uploaded a video of me beating Walk in the park with a terrible score.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFCdtuIlAHQ  Hope that helps you with design for the mission/mod and helps other people beat it.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 21, 2012, 01:38:05 AM
Thank you! That is very helpful indeed.

I've noticed how exposed they are from behind, is that offset enough by the high armour?

And those chainguns are next to useless, because you can't bring them to bear on your target ...

Don't want to de-character them, but I've definitely got a few things to imvestigate. Perhaps it's even down to your escort ... Maybe we need a new JP fighter, or a carrier variant Boxer .... Oh the decisions .... I've got a bit of free time soon, so I'll probably do something about it by this time next week ...

Thanks again!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on January 21, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
like what u did with the mod...   :)
are u going to expand the mod when the campaign is out? maby building some ships from scrap ingame...  :-X


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Kilvanya on January 21, 2012, 08:44:51 AM
JPs grow as more ships are destroyed?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: BeanusMaximus on January 21, 2012, 09:54:00 AM
Just out of curiosity, what do you use to edit the game's files?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on January 21, 2012, 10:21:35 AM
m i only one having broblem with that "gunboat" mission with 2 boxers?
i mean those escort fighters just disappear without carrier and the enemy keeps throwing those drones at me again & again till i die (and cant seem to finish off those frigates *****s just keep running off to vent flux whenever they feel like it because im too slow.. and whats with the boxers shield capacity it overloads in seconds from frigate?

"end of rant"  :'(


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 21, 2012, 01:05:58 PM
@BeanusMaximus: I use paint.net, gimp and notepad+ (or scite) by and large. It's fairly straightforward once you have figured it out, and redbulls or trylobots ship editors really help with creating new ships.

@SgtAlex86: Walk In The Park? Yeah, that was created and balanced a couple of versions ago, and since then the AI has got cleverer. I'm experimenting with making it a bit easier, or more fun (and retaining the difficulty) at the minute. I'm open to any suggestions, and DukeVonBathrobe has posted a gameplay video on what it looks like to beat it ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on January 21, 2012, 02:11:21 PM
tried beelining for the carrier but the other boxer vent and got himself killed before i got back to action from the other side of the map   :-\


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 21, 2012, 03:15:55 PM
Theres now a 0.85 up.

Contains a new heavy fighter, the 'Shard' (specifically supposed to be an escort) and Walk in the Park has been 'rebalanced'. No more pesky Tempest double teaming, but hopefully all the difficulty and fun hasn't fallen out of it.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on January 21, 2012, 03:31:56 PM
:o will enjoy


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: MagicalTrevor on January 21, 2012, 04:06:46 PM
I dont know if its just me, but i still cannot beat the mission, the fighters die way too fast to a single freighter, and the 2 other ships are slow and have hardly any shield piercing attacks. A laser of some sort would be nice to have...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: DukeVonBathrobe on January 21, 2012, 04:09:26 PM
Good stuff, I will have to check it out...guess my video is now out of date though.  Glad I had the chance to beat the unfair challenge while it was there.

Edit: Sorry, posted again forgetting I could just edit this post to add. Deleted that post.  The new version of Walk in the park is significantly easier than before, but more appropriate to the medium difficulty rating.  Also, it is more fun as the new boxers seem to turn way faster and can concentrate fire much better.

Completed it 100% and recorded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMXqSNW3YS4

Oh and why does my ship seem to get a second engine boost?  Is that a bug or a feature of pirate ships?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 22, 2012, 12:21:43 AM
Cool stuff, DukeVonBathrobe! :D

Is the 'second boost' the one you get when you are over the planet? If so, that happens over all planets, and interestingly if you throttle UP to a high speed whilst 'slingshotting', you don't lose that speed unless you keep throttling (so just remove throttle when you are going ~240). Can enable you to get up the map a little bit faster, I actually moved the planet to give the possible option of using this slingshot to get straight to the carrier in this way. Of course, whenever I tried it myself, I got isolated and destroyed, but I thought it was a nice idea in principle ... !


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: BeanusMaximus on January 22, 2012, 03:05:17 AM
@BeanusMaximus: I use paint.net, gimp and notepad+ (or scite) by and large. It's fairly straightforward once you have figured it out, and redbulls or trylobots ship editors really help with creating new ships.

@SgtAlex86: Walk In The Park? Yeah, that was created and balanced a couple of versions ago, and since then the AI has got cleverer. I'm experimenting with making it a bit easier, or more fun (and retaining the difficulty) at the minute. I'm open to any suggestions, and DukeVonBathrobe has posted a gameplay video on what it looks like to beat it ...
Ah I see :D Gunna have a try (and most likely fail) haha xD If I can at least be able to play with the code etc then I might try and join and mod team/get one together :P
I'd be a hardcore rebel and go solo lol but I can't do graphics do save my life q.q


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: BeanusMaximus on January 22, 2012, 04:20:03 AM
Another quick question, how do you get the ships to look so... smooth? :L


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 22, 2012, 04:36:52 AM
Another quick question, how do you get the ships to look so... smooth? :L
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22.msg4333#msg4333

The post above shows, generally, how I create my ships.

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22.msg551#msg551

This one shows Avan doing some madskillz on the pixel work.

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22.msg958#msg958

From about here in the thread, Avan starts producing a load of ships, some based entirely on the existing pixel-work already done by David.

Maybe some inspiration amongst that?  :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: BeanusMaximus on January 22, 2012, 05:53:09 AM
Another quick question, how do you get the ships to look so... smooth? :L
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22.msg4333#msg4333

The post above shows, generally, how I create my ships.

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22.msg551#msg551

This one shows Avan doing some madskillz on the pixel work.

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22.msg958#msg958

From about here in the thread, Avan starts producing a load of ships, some based entirely on the existing pixel-work already done by David.

Maybe some inspiration amongst that?  :)

So you basically draw it in real life then redo it in paint.net/gimp?
Do a video covering your next ship on how you do it lmao xD
Also how long does it take for you to do things like that?

I'd probably be alright doing a basic ship, however making it detailed and make it so the colours blend etc I would suck so bad at :L



Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 22, 2012, 06:20:46 AM
So you basically draw it in real life then redo it in paint.net/gimp?
Do a video covering your next ship on how you do it lmao xD
Also how long does it take for you to do things like that?

I'd probably be alright doing a basic ship, however making it detailed and make it so the colours blend etc I would suck so bad at :L

Yeah, sounds about right.

I don't keep count, but at least 4 hours on the Orca so far, maybe a few more than that for the Dugong, and a few hours each for the smaller ships. It's probably half the work getting it to where the Orca is currently, then an equal time spent pixeling and detailing (something the Orca hasn't had any time on, yet).

If you are concerned about it, start off with a simple fighter, or a small frigate first. You'll find the Starfarer engine makes your ships look good almost whatever you do, and once you see it in the game, that alone might give you the motivation to try something a bit more demanding.  :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: BeanusMaximus on January 22, 2012, 06:23:43 AM
So you basically draw it in real life then redo it in paint.net/gimp?
Do a video covering your next ship on how you do it lmao xD
Also how long does it take for you to do things like that?

I'd probably be alright doing a basic ship, however making it detailed and make it so the colours blend etc I would suck so bad at :L

Yeah, sounds about right.

I don't keep count, but at least 4 hours on the Orca so far, maybe a few more than that for the Dugong, and a few hours each for the smaller ships. It's probably half the work getting it to where the Orca is currently, then an equal time spent pixeling and detailing (something the Orca hasn't had any time on, yet).

If you are concerned about it, start off with a simple fighter, or a small frigate first. You'll find the Starfarer engine makes your ships look good almost whatever you do, and once you see it in the game, that alone might give you the motivation to try something a bit more demanding.  :)

Hmmm tempted >:D
I'd say challenge accepted however idleness does tend to overpower me xD

Is gimp better for blending and stuff like that?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on January 22, 2012, 06:47:17 AM
got trough the walk in the park with first try at 21%... lost both wings of useless fighters during first rush at flags  :-\ but for some reason this time those wasps got annihilated instead of returning home... did u do something to the loadouts of boxers?  ??? (btw the main guns run out of ammo too fast need MOAR for bigger battles this time t was just few frigates how are u supposed to take down cruisers if u cant carry enough ammo... ^^)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 22, 2012, 07:02:43 AM
got trough the walk in the park with first try at 21%... lost both wings of useless fighters during first rush at flags  :-\ but for some reason this time those wasps got annihilated instead of returning home... did u do something to the loadouts of boxers?  ??? (btw the main guns run out of ammo too fast need MOAR for bigger battles this time t was just few frigates how are u supposed to take down cruisers if u cant carry enough ammo... ^^)

Congrats on the mission success!

I did do something to the boxer loadout indeed. The two chainguns on the front were replaced with a couple of hypervelocity drivers (for long range attacks) and the single, turreted HVel driver was replaced with a dual flak cannon. This flak cannon in conjunction with the two PD weapons on the front CAN cut through a pack of wasps quite easily, if the wasps approach you at the wrong angle and stick around a little bit too much. Also all the varied missiles have been brought together as three packs of 'swarmers', so they are a bit more useable and last throughout the battle against the generally light craft you are fighting.

If you were trying to bring down a cruiser, all you would need to do is swap out one of those swarmers (probably the one looking forwards) with a typhoon (torpedo tube), and then strategically bring her shields down from range with the drivers and throw a torpedo down her throat.

Alternatively just walk next to her and pummel the living hell out of her with those two Scatter PD guns, and hope you are the toughest ...

Problem is that the Boxer is not very good at fighting frigates (which is kind of the point of the mission, I suppose), I think it would have a much better chance against something like a cruiser where the speed and manouvreability difference is not so obvious. Far more of your shots are going to count (less wasted ammo) , you can then take advantage of your high armour and just slug it out with them.

Also the boxer is always likely to have a problem with ammo, because it depends on ballistic and missile weapons heavily. When it comes to something like the campaign, you would be daft to field it in a situation like that demanded by this mission, because of the obvious problems. It needs a bit of support, I suppose, and that's kind one of the design points (if it had everything, it would be no fun)  :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on January 22, 2012, 07:12:40 AM
well i do like the current load out much more actualy instead of screaming at my screen and pounding the armrest of my "command chair" i actually had fun dancing with those frigates... but untill they add the possibility to rearm mid fight, the boxers... need more ammo  :-X (and yes that was the reason i went all necromancer on the other topic...)
almoust feel like cheating and going to modify the files for extra 0s to ammo count  :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: DukeVonBathrobe on January 22, 2012, 07:31:09 AM
That is awesome and I was completely unaware of that effect until now.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 22, 2012, 07:56:05 AM
Is gimp better for blending and stuff like that?

Time and patience are the best tools, to be honest, whatever program you use  :-\ (although shrinking a large, roughly blended sprite can give you a bit of slack)

Another option would be to crib bits of the original ships, layer them up and move them about to create new ones. Here are a couple I knocked up in the last half hour this way (light freighters for ferrying stuff about):

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_lightfreighter.png) (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_lightfreighter2.png)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: BeanusMaximus on January 22, 2012, 09:41:59 AM
Is gimp better for blending and stuff like that?

Time and patience are the best tools, to be honest, whatever program you use  :-\ (although shrinking a large, roughly blended sprite can give you a bit of slack)

Another option would be to crib bits of the original ships, layer them up and move them about to create new ones. Here are a couple I knocked up in the last half hour this way (light freighters for ferrying stuff about):

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_lightfreighter.png) (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_lightfreighter2.png)

Ah fair does :D Well I'mma download gimp and give it a try :D They look awesome btw


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Doom101 on January 24, 2012, 06:25:03 AM
Is gimp better for blending and stuff like that?

Time and patience are the best tools, to be honest, whatever program you use  :-\ (although shrinking a large, roughly blended sprite can give you a bit of slack)

Another option would be to crib bits of the original ships, layer them up and move them about to create new ones. Here are a couple I knocked up in the last half hour this way (light freighters for ferrying stuff about):

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_lightfreighter.png) (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_lightfreighter2.png)

freighters huh? sounds like someone is prepping for the campaign release where you actually have to move things. XD

Edit:also realized after i posted this post, that this could make for an interesting mission i imagine it would go something like this:
The king ordered these ship parts months ago but we keep getting delayed by hegemony forces! They even had the nerve to blockade this area of space! Take your ship ( boxenstein perhaps?) and punch a hole for the freighters!

Mission briefing:
disable the hegemony blockade
the Freighters must retreat successfully

i figure retreat would be a good type of mission so you have to protect your freighters while they escape the blockade? maybe put the enemies on defensive so they stay more or less together? or at least i imagine they would more than on attacking, also maybe only a few freighters have to escape? like 2/3 must escape for a win. and with only a boxenstein and maybe a few fighters the enemies shouldn't have like something overwhelming like... a conquest or something but enough to put up a good challenge of course. 


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Kilvanya on January 24, 2012, 08:52:13 AM
A single outdated onslaught would do the trick,
maybe with some of those terrifying mining drones  :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 24, 2012, 01:20:43 PM
Thanks for the suggestions chaps, sounds like the perfect introductory mission for our new little friend:

THE STOAT! (A-variant and B-variants available)

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/screenshot010.jpg)

Please do not bring these into combat unless your life depends on it. They are awful.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: icepick37 on January 24, 2012, 01:52:58 PM
I like the name. Sounds very redwall.  :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Catattack998 on January 24, 2012, 05:24:46 PM
Redwall???

EEEEUUUULALIIAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Kilvanya on January 24, 2012, 08:56:46 PM
Oh Balls, the Badgers are here . . . :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 25, 2012, 11:42:52 AM
0.90 up!

New Mission - 'Soup Train'
Stoat added (inter-system freighter)
Descriptions updated


I'd love some feedback on the new mission, have done quite a lot of playtesting, and I don't know whether I can look at it objectively anymore ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on January 26, 2012, 11:32:44 AM
Gave it a whirl. Gotta say, I love your art style. Really consistent with selling the whole "junk pirates" theme, plus it just looks good.

So, the new mission! At first, I ordered a defensive action in the middle of the map, and sent the civilians to the right. Then realized that I should probably move the holding action to the left a bit - into the nebula, to slow down the lumbering enemy ships. So, did that (running low on command points once, but ordered the capture of the comm relay behind enemy lines to get back on track).

The flagship (the RNS Minestrone, heh heh) is really, really tough, and also weak offensively. At first I thought that would lead to trouble - but it could chew up fighters decently enough, and the armor came in really handy as I was leading the Onslaught and Enforcers to the left side of the map.

The two Enforcers ended up in the very top left corner of the map at the end, and the Onslaught got lost somewhere inside the nebula :) Sadly, not before it fired a torpedo salvo at the RNS Goulash, which was lost with all hands - despite the valiant efforts of its gunnery officers, who were able to shoot down two of the torpedoes with PD lasers.

In the meanwhile, I was deploying the Stoats and retreating them after they got at least partway to the civ rally on the right side.

Surprisingly, the rest of the enemy fleet was completely taken out by the Junk Pirates light craft. They carried the field and were able to cap all the enemy-side objectives. I suspect it may be possible to outright beat the enemy forces, though the Onslaught would be tough - or at least time-consuming - to defeat. All in all, I had a lot of fun beating the mission. The heavy armor on the flagship actually allowed me to adjust strategies mid-fight, and the whole "distract the enemy while the freighters get away" thing really worked.

Battle results screenshot (click to enlarge):
(http://www.fractalsoftworks.com/public/soup_train_win.png) (http://www.fractalsoftworks.com/public/soup_train_win.png)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: icepick37 on January 26, 2012, 11:50:01 AM
You should update with OP with the stoat.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: arcibalde on January 26, 2012, 11:55:35 AM
I think Alex should consider to put Junk Pirates as small fraction in  full game. This mod is pure AWESOMNES!!!  I enjoy every bit of missions  ;D  Ships are design beautiful.  ::)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Kilvanya on January 26, 2012, 12:08:01 PM
/endorsed  8)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: icepick37 on January 26, 2012, 12:10:54 PM
I second the sentiment, but I don't know that it's entirely feasible. What would be more cool is being able to actually mod factions into the game. That could be a crap ton more work than Alex has time for, though.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: arcibalde on January 26, 2012, 12:14:57 PM
Hehehehehehe we  will see what he's gonna say. He like JP too  ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Zarcon on January 26, 2012, 12:15:11 PM
I second the sentiment, but I don't know that it's entirely feasible. What would be more cool is being able to actually mod factions into the game. That could be a crap ton more work than Alex has time for, though.

Yeah, it would be pretty cool if Alex could eventually hire/buy some of these cooler mod ships/weapons/concepts, etc, but I have no idea how that stuff works, might be highly unfeasible in a legal/financial sense or something.  

No worries, I bet it will all work out in the end, Alex has shown a lot of support for Modding, and so far the Modding community is taking off crazy fast considering how early of a state the game is in.    ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 26, 2012, 12:15:33 PM
I think Alex should consider to put Junk Pirates as small fraction in  full game. This mod is pure AWESOMNES!!!  I enjoy every bit of missions  ;D  Ships are design beautiful.  ::)

Aw, thanks man! (Ninja'd: and others!)

I'm reasonably sure David can cope (and then some) with the art required, though ... besides, I doubt they could afford my exorbitant fees ...

Also, my mod strays significantly from the lore of the game, so even if Alex COULD afford me, I would start rewriting the game world, and it would all just get too messy ... ;)

Thanks for trying it out, Alex. It's always nice how the game lets you imagine these kinds of tactical possibilities, then all you do is put a few ships in the right place, and these little stories in the game play themselves out to plan ... :)

That sounds pretty much how I have been finding it ... couldn't be sure whether it was just because I had been playing it so much, and all it would take is an engagement of the Stoats by a reasonable force to be game over ...

I might consider making it harder, but the smaller ship fight that inevitably goes on always seemed on a knife edge as I tweaked the fleets slightly up and down. One to mull over and experiment about with a bit more ...nalthough I don't suppose a mission always has to pummel you in to the ground, as long as it's reasonably fun ...

ANYWAY - on to the reason I came here ...

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/langoustine.png)

It's a quick-ish destroyer (~Medusa), needs a bit more pixel-love, and probably some balancing, but I think it's pretty cool ... It abhors missiles, and it doesn't have a mission yet, but I'll see if I can't get on to that in the next few days :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: megal00t on January 26, 2012, 12:17:47 PM
i tried to install the mod, but when it started it crashed and said JSONObject ''mission'' not found. any idea what this means?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Avan on January 26, 2012, 12:21:06 PM
That could make a nice assault destroyer.

Are those AM blasters on hardpoints or turrets?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on January 26, 2012, 12:22:25 PM
...  What would be more cool is being able to actually mod factions into the game. That could be a crap ton more work than Alex has time for, though.

That'll definitely be possible. It already is, in the dev build.

I might consider making it harder, but the smaller ship fight that inevitably goes on always seemed on a knife edge as I tweaked the fleets slightly up and down. One to mull over and experiment about with a bit more ...nalthough I don't suppose a mission always has to pummel you in to the ground, as long as it's reasonably fun ...

Hehe, yeah. It is fun, too.

Quote
ANYWAY - on to the reason I came here ...
...

Oh man, that looks awesome :)


i tried to install the mod, but when it started it crashed and said JSONObject ''mission'' not found. any idea what this means?

Hmm. You don't by chance have any other mods enabled which might be causing the problem? Also, did you delete the old junk_pirates folder before unzipping the new one?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: megal00t on January 26, 2012, 12:27:12 PM
no, i have the newest version and deleted the oldes. it is located in the mods folder. i got my own mod in another directory for the time being. i can't figure it out :/


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: megal00t on January 26, 2012, 12:33:32 PM
crashlog:
PIC: (http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2817/crashqffmzw.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/crashqffmzw.png/)



ERROR com.fs.starfarer.for.E  - org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["mission"] not found.
org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["mission"] not found.
   at org.json.JSONObject.get(JSONObject.java:406)
   at org.json.JSONObject.getString(JSONObject.java:577)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.class.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.String.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.B.super.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.for.E.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 26, 2012, 12:35:25 PM
That could make a nice assault destroyer.

Are those AM blasters on hardpoints or turrets?

That's the 'Strike' variant I've got set up, it has those blasters sitting on each of the approx 50/50 (180/180?) coverage small energy turrets sitting out at the sides. I suppose the original designer anticipated they would be used for PD, but they've fitted this particular variant out with a front facing rack of Graviton Beams (to try and take down shields effectively) supplemented by those blasters, given they don't pack any missiles.

At its current configuration, it needs more flux capacitors if it wants to be effective with a pair like that (brings you almost to full flux after firing ...), and I'm not 100% that the weapon balance is quite right as it is ... but that was the concept, and I'm rolling with it for now ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Alex on January 26, 2012, 12:38:08 PM
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.for.E  - org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["mission"] not found.
org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["mission"] not found.
    at org.json.JSONObject.get(JSONObject.java:406)

That looks like a problem with mission_list.csv - but the one in the mod looks right (and works for me). Are you sure the core game itself is working? Is it possible you edited the mission_list in the game itself, by accident, so that that's the one causing a problem?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: megal00t on January 26, 2012, 12:51:38 PM
strange, even when i completely reïnstall the game it crashes. oh well maybe its beacause of my own pc. it's a heap of junk anyways..
i haven't had this problem with any other 35a mod btw :/


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Avan on January 26, 2012, 01:03:04 PM
That could make a nice assault destroyer.

Are those AM blasters on hardpoints or turrets?

That's the 'Strike' variant I've got set up, it has those blasters sitting on each of the approx 50/50 (180/180?) coverage small energy turrets sitting out at the sides. I suppose the original designer anticipated they would be used for PD, but they've fitted this particular variant out with a front facing rack of Graviton Beams (to try and take down shields effectively) supplemented by those blasters, given they don't pack any missiles.

At its current configuration, it needs more flux capacitors if it wants to be effective with a pair like that (brings you almost to full flux after firing ...), and I'm not 100% that the weapon balance is quite right as it is ... but that was the concept, and I'm rolling with it for now ...
The hyperion (A frigate) has a pair of AM blasters, though as I recall it has a number of flux capacitor hull mods to compensate for the amount of flux they generate. So I'm thinking thats about right. Afterall, with AM blasters, the idea is generally to get close, fire, then run away while venting.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Zarcon on January 26, 2012, 01:10:49 PM
Afterall, with AM blasters, the idea is generally to get close, fire, then run away while venting.

Exactly, I really enjoy that type of stuff, it is something I've experimented with a bit myself, I love the idea of the AM blaster, but the flux requirements are so high, you have to be creative about it, ha ha.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 26, 2012, 02:02:02 PM
Afterall, with AM blasters, the idea is generally to get close, fire, then run away while venting.

Exactly, I really enjoy that type of stuff, it is something I've experimented with a bit myself, I love the idea of the AM blaster, but the flux requirements are so high, you have to be creative about it, ha ha.
I've kind of started to think about playing by the rules, and that means obeying OP limits :(

Upshot of it is, the Langoustine can't take 3 Gravitons in to battle alongside the AMblasters, BUT it can take 3 ion cannons, a dual flak mount and a few flux capacitors. I've also tried a bank of 3 AMblasters at the front, with ioncannons on the side, which is interesting. I get the feeling the third blaster is all but redundant though, would probably be better substituted for 10 flux capacitors, and the ship would still retain it's punch ...

3 pulse-lasers, 2 pdlasers and a heavy machine gun is the current 'Standard' variant. This also carries a few flux capacitors in with it, and those pulse lasers can really chew things up.

But this OP limit stuff is hard ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: icepick37 on January 26, 2012, 02:05:25 PM
The hyperion (A frigate) has a pair of AM blasters, though as I recall it has a number of flux capacitor hull mods to compensate for the amount of flux they generate. So I'm thinking thats about right. Afterall, with AM blasters, the idea is generally to get close, fire, then run away while venting.

Is that the one in the Bis'Mar mission? 'Cause that frigate is dang fun.  Plink!  Ohcrapohcrapohcrapohcrapohcrap...    :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Zarcon on January 26, 2012, 02:09:00 PM
But this OP limit stuff is hard ...

Indeed!  ha ha, somehow it ends up being rather satisfying though, knowing that an idea/ship is balanced, I am excited to try out the refit screen in 0.5, that way Alex will have done the OP limit math for me via the interface.   :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Avan on January 26, 2012, 02:11:40 PM
Current OP values (.35a-pre2 and before) are unbalanced, so I wouldn't pay too much heed to them.

.5a-pre should be more balanced I would imagine.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 28, 2012, 04:41:47 AM
0.95 - The Langoustine has been added ... and a new, small mission.

Randomised battles also tweaked to include either variant of Langoustine, and Shard also picked up.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: megal00t on January 29, 2012, 11:28:23 AM
hahahahaha... i have FINALLY found what's causing the errors, ahem:
it was EVERY -->''<-- thing in EVERY CSV file. after 10 minutes of deleting all '' s i finally got it working  ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Lopunny Zen on January 30, 2012, 09:23:48 AM
anyone think their should be a big 3 port carrier for the junks...the octopuses are kinda...eh..


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: megal00t on January 30, 2012, 09:37:19 AM
anyone think their should be a big 3 port carrier for the junks...the octopuses are kinda...eh..
kinda... meh?.... xD


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on January 30, 2012, 10:14:21 AM
anyone think their should be a big 3 port carrier for the junks...the octopuses are kinda...eh..
kinda... meh?.... xD
Is it that you don't LIKE the Octopus, or is it that you find it fairly close to useless?

It's supposed to be poor in combat (deployed behind your own lines, probably with some point defense escort)  ... but if you just don't like it generally, then that's something else.

There is the Orca for a more combat capable carrier ... (also check the OP for a tweaked sprite) ? I should probably give it another flight deck, mind ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: megal00t on January 30, 2012, 10:30:32 AM
no, i know its role is being a carrier :D.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Hopelessnoob on January 30, 2012, 01:33:01 PM
This is a great mod, really enjoy the fact that there is a bit of a story line in the missions.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: arcibalde on February 16, 2012, 12:45:32 PM
Can you make Junkies fly in system? I wanna kick opponents engine with them  ;D


Say yes, say yes, say yes, say yes, say yes, say yes, say yes, say yes... Yes?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on February 16, 2012, 01:38:59 PM
Erm .... yes?  :D (eventually?)

I have actually been having a play around, but haven't figured it out yet ... I would like to get them in and playable though at some point ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: arcibalde on February 16, 2012, 01:56:37 PM
AWESOME!!!!  :) :D ;D 8) :P


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Kilvanya on February 16, 2012, 05:23:44 PM
copy paste independent faction, them replace fleet spawns with junk fleets lol


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on February 17, 2012, 09:46:03 AM
Seems I was struggling last night because I was incapable of seeing a small typo ...

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/screenshot026.png)

MUA HA HA HA HA!!!

They are sitting on a little station in Corvus VI (for some reason previously undiscovered) and now I need to spend a bit of time getting shard wings worth more than 120 credits, with more than zero ordnance points etc. and some general testing to make sure the spawns generally work okay ...

Hopefully I can upload something this weekend ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 17, 2012, 10:07:16 AM
do want!  :o
btw is it compatible with TT station mod... cause wants the cake and eat it too... :3


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: arcibalde on February 17, 2012, 10:31:18 AM
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o


RRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCCCCCCCCTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!!!!!!!!


OK, dude, i'm gonna eat Killer cake in your name! (Killer cake is moded Kasato cake but without sugar fingers cookies, basicallyit's a small cake made of chocolate  ;D  It's small because noone can eat lots of it  ;D) OR I can make Nutela pancakes .... Ah nwm, something sugary will be eaten in your honor!

LONG LIVE AND PROSPER  :D


and may the MOD be with you!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: Kilvanya on February 17, 2012, 02:29:53 PM
i'ma take a fleet of Nebula up agianst some of thos Duongs <-- Whats the battleship?

Course my nebulas have 6 large energy mounts and cardboard armor
Glass Cannons FTW!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.35a
Post by: mendonca on February 18, 2012, 09:00:35 AM
6 Large energy mounts?  :o I think I would leave my Dugong by the side of the road and get outta there in my shuttle ...

---

I've gone and updated the mod, so that if you start a new campaign, there will be a new kid in town. A station on a new planet in the outskirts of the system.

Go there to buy Junk Pirates' ships, watch them beat up the Hegemony and the Tri-Tachyon, or get involved yourself and start knocking them about.

Variants have all been upgraded to suit the new balance, it should (touch wood) all be about right, but of course I appreciate any feedback.

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to work in conjunction with Paul's TT Station mod.

Get it here (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates 100.rar) (or check OP)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 18, 2012, 09:03:03 AM
Downloads broken "file not found on server.."  :'(


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Paul on February 18, 2012, 09:05:00 AM
Looks like the link should be http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates%20100.rar (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates%20100.rar)

Oh, nm, he already fixed it :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 18, 2012, 09:05:34 AM
Downloads broken "file not found on server.."  :'(
Oops ... typographical error there ... try now?

NE: Thanks Paul ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Kilvanya on February 18, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
Ow, doungs just wrecked my nebulas at a 1.5:1 ratio


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Paul on February 18, 2012, 09:29:35 AM
SgtAlex, here are the files to merge in TT Station for version 1.0 of Junk Pirates. Just drop the data folder on top of the data folder for junk pirates, it'll add the couple files I use in my mod and replace sectorgen.java with the one I merged the mods together with. I left in the little independent "Salvage Yard" that I stealth added (quite by accident when fixing the crash bug, but eh more stations is good) too, heh.

This won't be necessary next version, once the problem with getting stuff by name is fixed. But for now this works, at least until mendonca releases a new version with a new sectorgen.java and someone still uses this and overwrites his changes and breaks the mod :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 18, 2012, 09:43:30 AM
:3 so happy!
There is typo in the "junk pirates retained defensive leet"...  :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Paul on February 18, 2012, 09:55:04 AM
Erm, whuups. Mendonca used cargo as his station's cargo, so my "merger" forgot to take that into account, which made it add all the cargo meant for the tritach station to his station. lol. Fixed it.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bw4jSI5meNgsN2ZjYWE4ZTItODBjZS00MmFiLWIwOTctYjkyOWQ1NGM1MmVl

-edit- This is only needed for v1.01 of my mod. The newer versions are compatible already.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: MagicalTrevor on February 18, 2012, 10:11:42 AM
Argh, i want to install it, but i had to get 7-zip to extract it....
I cant seem to get it to show, and i have no other mods installed, i extracted it while it was in the mods directory, may have been the problem...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 18, 2012, 10:35:13 AM
Are junkies neutral with everybody? was following em around and they just flew around not attacking anyone?  ???
ok after playing 2 hours or so i finally started seeing junkies looting some hegemony patrols maby was just slow start...  ;)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 18, 2012, 11:40:53 AM
Erm, whuups. Mendonca used cargo as his station's cargo, so my "merger" forgot to take that into account, which made it add all the cargo meant for the tritach station to his station. lol. Fixed it.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bw4jSI5meNgsN2ZjYWE4ZTItODBjZS00MmFiLWIwOTctYjkyOWQ1NGM1MmVl

Cool beans! Nice one, Paul. I did pretty much wholesale rip off your text for my station, so that would explain that ... :)

In terms of neutrality, I set there relations at -1 with Heg. and TT. I thought it was working okay, but now you mention it they don't seem to fight too much. I'm pretty sure I saw a supply convoy roll over a small TT fleet on the way in, but maybe not. I'll watch out for that ...

MagicalTrevor, does the 'junk_pirates' directory exist immediately in your 'mods' folder? Thats where it should be ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: MagicalTrevor on February 18, 2012, 02:14:54 PM
Actually, a while ago i downloaded it to the desktop, and then extracted it to the mods foler, it works now!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 18, 2012, 03:07:27 PM
whys boxenstein so much cheaper than boxer... would think boxenstein would cost bout the same as 2 boxers  :-\


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: intothewildblueyonder on February 18, 2012, 10:39:30 PM
I don't know if this was intentional or not but the JP cruiser is in the destroyer tab in the buy/sell ship list


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Doom101 on February 18, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
oh man, just checked out the  junk pirates new mission, the new ship oh and i've taken their side in the quest for campaign superiority :D the TT guys are the biggest pain in the arse EVER. i suppose it helps they practically eliminated the hegemony for us though... sadly i'm poor as crazy so right now i just help the junk pirates against other pirates XD


Edit:
also not sure if this is a bug or i'm really unlucky with the resupply fleets ( 4 have come to the station) but are we not able to get the octopus ship? it doesn't seem to ever appear.
also a slight oversight? in the main post the dugong is classified as a cruiser but in-game it's a destroyer.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: arcibalde on February 18, 2012, 11:21:33 PM
Hey, Junkees need some first class capital junk! Do same think like you did to boxer. Merge 2x ORCA into 1  ;D  It would be awesome  :P 


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 19, 2012, 06:26:26 AM
:o have to say i love the hammer class frigates... just took out venture class cruiser with 1 hammer and shuttle (shuttle kept distracting and i threw my torps in 2s at it first 2 overloaded shields and rest took it down from 100% to smoking wreck in 4seconds ^^)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 19, 2012, 07:34:33 AM
:o have to say i love the hammer class frigates... just took out venture class cruiser with 1 hammer and shuttle (shuttle kept distracting and i threw my torps in 2s at it first 2 overloaded shields and rest took it down from 100% to smoking wreck in 4seconds ^^)
:D cool!

I'm considering buying a couple for a fire support team ... Kit them out with a pair of Pilums and missile racks, a veritable rain of fire ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Alendor on February 19, 2012, 12:52:46 PM
the tritech station mod files that you made for this mod remove the tri tech and nuetral stations


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Ghoti on February 19, 2012, 01:00:43 PM
has anyone mentioned the current balance with the scatter PD's and cutlass?

About the cutlass:
Having a high flux for a high damage gun doesn't balance it out, because you essentially get more for your hardpoint. Also, in some cases more flux is what you want.

And the scatter PD's:
Let's just say the standard sickle frigate is the most dangerous frigate in the game in the hands of a player. Those scatters do almost as much damage as a cutlass, and they don't cost the flux, and they're energy weapons so they work on everything, and they're point defense. Do these things Julian fries as well?

The design of the ships are cool, REALLY cool (except the mothership, that thing is a teal and red hue of strange.), but there is a tendency with mod makers to make their additions uniquely powerful, so that they stand out. Some of these ships and weapons really stand out.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 19, 2012, 01:14:09 PM
has anyone mentioned the current balance with the scatter PD's and cutlass?

About the cutlass:
Having a high flux for a high damage gun doesn't balance it out, because you essentially get more for your hardpoint. Also, in some cases more flux is what you want.

And the scatter PD's:
Let's just say the standard sickle frigate is the most dangerous frigate in the game in the hands of a player. Those scatters do almost as much damage as a cutlass, and they don't cost the flux, and they're energy weapons so they work on everything, and they're point defense. Do these things Julian fries as well?

The design of the ships are cool, REALLY cool (except the mothership, that thing is a teal and red hue of strange.), but there is a tendency with mod makers to make their additions uniquely powerful, so that they stand out. Some of these ships and weapons really stand out.
cutlass looses range compared to pulse lazer... dont know bout scatter pd havnt had time to play with it yet  :-\


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 19, 2012, 01:55:18 PM
has anyone mentioned the current balance with the scatter PD's and cutlass?

About the cutlass:
Having a high flux for a high damage gun doesn't balance it out, because you essentially get more for your hardpoint. Also, in some cases more flux is what you want.

And the scatter PD's:
Let's just say the standard sickle frigate is the most dangerous frigate in the game in the hands of a player. Those scatters do almost as much damage as a cutlass, and they don't cost the flux, and they're energy weapons so they work on everything, and they're point defense. Do these things Julian fries as well?

Both weapons have fluttered between being very powerful and less powerful, with flux costs flickering about just as much, since I starting pratting about with them. The cutlass is supposed to be offset by the range penalty against the pulse laser, at just under 2/3rd, but yeah, it is pretty powerful. But then, so is the pulse. The larger flux reserves in this version against the last (0.5a vs. 0.35a) probably count against any previous balancing, making the thing relatively more powerful, because these things used to cut out quite quickly in the Sickle (not so much anymore, I suppose ...)

In terms of the scatterpd, it ended up where it is, because - if it wasn't as powerful - it would never knock a missile out of the sky out of space due to it's terrible accuracy. I guess it ended up, almost accidentally, being an awesome close assault weapon, and I kind of hoped it would be a bit more costly to use it in the campaign, where getting up close and personal to some ships (enforcer, dominator etc.) is going to cost you dearly. Not so dangerous against smaller ships, though, I guess...

The design of the ships are cool, REALLY cool (except the mothership, that thing is a teal and red hue of strange.), but there is a tendency with mod makers to make their additions uniquely powerful, so that they stand out. Some of these ships and weapons really stand out.
Ha ha! Thanks, man, and thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. It's really cool to hear people are having a good play around!  :D


@Alendor: When I tried to run both together, it seemed to use my mod in preference to Paul's mod in terms of the Sectorgen file. I think there's a little bug in how it's working at the minute, such that mods can't play on top of each other in the campaign (unless I did it wrong) due to it picking a single Sectorgen to use to generate the system (presumably the first directory alphabetically, or something).


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Alex on February 19, 2012, 02:06:24 PM
I think there's a little bug in how it's working at the minute, such that mods can't play on top of each other in the campaign (unless I did it wrong) due to it picking a single Sectorgen to use to generate the system (presumably the first directory alphabetically, or something).

You can actually use multiple SectorGen-type classes - need to add them to "data/world/generators.csv". Right now, though, there's a bug w/ StarSystemAPI.getEntityByName, so you can't get SectorEntityTokens for stuff created by another generator. This is fixed in the next version, though.

Ultimately, the default SectorGen is not supposed to be touched by mods unless it's a total conversion.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Paul on February 19, 2012, 02:53:39 PM
Wouldn't that still keep multiple mods from working together due to needing different generators.csv, or does the game automatically add together generators.csv from multiple mods selected?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Alex on February 19, 2012, 03:04:40 PM
Wouldn't that still keep multiple mods from working together due to needing different generators.csv, or does the game automatically add together generators.csv from multiple mods selected?

Yeah, the game merges a few different type of files from different mods - ship_data.csv, weapon_data.csv, missions.csv, planets.json, etc.

That's why, for example, if you're adding a new ship or weapon in a mod, your mod's ship_data and weapon_data just need to contain the new stuff, and as long as there are no id clashes, it'll coexist peacefully with other mods. Incidentally, that's why it's recommended to prepend a unique mod-specific id to ship and weapon ids, and anything else similar.

Edit: sounds.json is another important one where it does that.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Paul on February 20, 2012, 09:17:49 AM
Ah, cool. Thought it might, but wasn't sure.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 21, 2012, 12:07:25 AM
Just a quick note to say I've updated the link to 1.01.

GET IT HERE (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates 101.rar)

-Fixed up OP counts against variants (thanks to catattack998 for spelling out the value of the devmode for that!)
-buffed the Langoustine.
-Also hullmods now properly showing up for some of the ships where I had left the designation as mods:[] rather than changing to hullMods:[].
-Few more tweaks all round.

Nothing major, but it should be a bit more consistent and correct now.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: arcibalde on February 21, 2012, 12:20:10 AM
Niceeee  8)  hey! And what about big nasty cap ship for JT's?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 21, 2012, 01:02:51 AM
Niceeee  8)  hey! And what about big nasty cap ship for JT's?

What about it, do you know something I don't ?  ;D

In all honesty I can't see me working on it any time soon ... there are just so many other things to do that don't involve sitting in front of the tablet for 6 or 7 hours dreaming up and detailing a huge new ship ... I'll keep it in mind though, for the future :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Arghy on February 22, 2012, 10:03:01 AM
The sickle frigate is goddamn amazing and the flying cross one is also above average in survivability for what its fielding. I had 3 wolf frigates and 3 lashers and i would lose them all the time as i had to drop fleet size for speed but i now sold the 3 wolves and and keep the lashers as fodder because i watched a single sickle and hammer frigate actually hold their own against destroyers and cruisers.

I watched a single sickle dance with 2 pirate destroyers, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser and live. The lasher and wolf frigates seem to be crewed by idiots who like to bring their ship into a cross fire and overload their shields by ramming carriers while fighters and bombers shoot their butts. I watched a hammer frigate with its woefully inadequate half shield survive a fight with multiple LRM streams and fighters which goddamn amazed me.

I also love the scatter PD because its RoF and cone of fire is great for wiping out large swathes of missiles that get to close--i check the station continually trying to find more and i buy every single one i can. Its short range is amazing because it doesnt waste shots or get distracted and its great for overloading enemy shields that get to close.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Paul on February 22, 2012, 01:12:32 PM
You have an unnecessary generators.csv in your mod. (junkpirates\data\world). Having that in there makes it conflict with the base one and screws something up, making it conflict with other mods.

So in short, next version you release delete that generators.csv file so your mod is compatible with mine and others :)

Until then if anyone wants to get this one working with my new version of TT station, you no longer need the files I posted previously - all you need is to delete that generators.csv file in the junk pirates mod and you're good to go.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 22, 2012, 01:31:33 PM
Ah okay. Thanks!

I'll do that.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Ghoti on February 23, 2012, 07:11:25 PM
Yah I noticed that scatter PD's gained a rather large flux cost with them now, it still didn't stop the standard sickle from being a devastating close range assault frigate. I just destroyed a battlecruiser with one. I can outpower it's shield.

High flux will never offset weapon damage, because you get more for your hardpoint.

There's also another thing. People compared the cutlass with the pulse laser, but there's a destroyer with a forward battery of 3 pulse lasers, it's not THAT effective (pretty effective though). How can the cutlas be so devastating in comparison?

I've sussed it. Two factors:
1. The cutlas rotates fast, shoots fast, it's spread makes it effective at hitting anything. Huge utility.
2. The cutlas has about equal flux to damage ratio. This is a BIG point, it means if you get into a shooting war, firing a cutlas will always put you ahead. It get's worse as your flux rises and the thing does more damage.

The scatter PD has taken a step towards reasonable, it's still terrifying, but some close assault weapons are that good (though they DO use ammo)
The cutlas still kinda crazy though.

again, my opinion, but:
  • clam needs buff. It's kind of hilarious as it is.
  • hammer is basically perfect.  
  • carrier is perfect (i think)
  • some sickle variants are horrifyingly deadly.
  • langoustine costs too little to field. Larger ships are expensive to field, not because of their fleet cost, but because of their speed. They take a long time to really make a difference. Langoustine gets to the field fast, and changes things faster.
  • the cruisers seem reasonable.
  • dugong is fast

I could be wrong. *edit. Cutlas is a MEDIUM mount
Compare and contrast: Mining Blaster.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Lancefighter on February 23, 2012, 07:12:34 PM
This seems like a silly question, but is there a reason most of these ships have something silly like .3flux/damage shield ratios?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Apophis on February 23, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
This seems like a silly question, but is there a reason most of these ships have something silly like .3flux/damage shield ratios?
They need rebalancing. In starfarer 0.35 the shield damage was lower for all ships


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 24, 2012, 12:46:49 AM
This seems like a silly question, but is there a reason most of these ships have something silly like .3flux/damage shield ratios?
They need rebalancing. In starfarer 0.35 the shield damage was lower for all ships

Oh, yeah. I totally missed this. Thanks for pointing it out. This probably helps to explain why, all other things being equal, the ships are seeming to be so survivable  :-[

@Ghoti, thanks for the feedback. This is awesome.

Any thoughts about shifting the scatterpd to 'Fragmentation' damage? Would still be an amazing finisher, and better pd, but not quite the all round up-close killing machine that it is at present ... ? Would probably suit the 4 OP cost a bit better, as well, which maybe does seem low.

With the feedback, and a bit more playing around in the campaign, I'm considering nerfing the Cutlass again, probably bring the damage per shot down a few points, make it less useful slightly against armor, while still keeping the OP cost.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Catattack998 on February 24, 2012, 01:38:30 AM
Wait, don't rebalance the shields! In my opinion, this makes them on-par with other craft. The frigates tend to die quickly otherwise, as all the JP weapons have high flux cost, and the JP ships tend to overload fast. The shield efficiency is something that makes the ships unique, and I always thought that it was due to having some secret design for better shields or something similarly valuable that allowed the faction to survive.

On another note, I LOVE the Hammer. The inward-angled front hardpoints are COOL, because they limit you from mounting longer-range weapons like Autocannons. The medium missile mounts did kind of bug me, because the medium-sized missile options are not really suited to use against smaller craft (Pilum or Typhoon Reaper). I found that a wondrously-effective solution was to mount Annihilators, and use the extra OP on Extended Shields and Expanded Missile Racks. This worked great in combination with mounting three Dual Light MG's in the ballistic slots. It quickly takes down fighters one at a time, and the Annihilators can be used against practically anything! Combine with Augmented Engines, and you could hunt down faster craft, and tear them to pieces with rockets once the MG's downed their engines.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Ghoti on February 24, 2012, 03:30:27 AM
fragmentation damage would make sense. I forget the formulas, but it's like 25% nerf to everything except hull? That would bring it down to about 125 dps.

Compare: Vulcan cannon.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Catattack998 on February 24, 2012, 08:48:19 AM
Much agreed, changing the Scatter PD to frag damage would really balance it.

Also, Junk Pirates being what they are, might we see a melee weapon or two on their ships? Or a melee fighter? If it did exist, I presume that it would be kinetic damage.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: SgtAlex86 on February 24, 2012, 09:10:14 AM
Much agreed, changing the Scatter PD to frag damage would really balance it.

Also, Junk Pirates being what they are, might we see a melee weapon or two on their ships? Or a melee fighter? If it did exist, I presume that it would be kinetic damage.
giant red axe flying around  ???



(jk dont hate)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Catattack998 on February 24, 2012, 10:22:25 AM
Actually, it would be cool to see a smaller ship that has a high mass and high speed. It would have low OP's, and a good shield. I am thinking a modification of the Clam, like with barely any weaponry but powerful engines. And yeah, I could see it being the Axe-Class Melee Frigate.

Not kidding, what do people think of this? Mendonca?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Arghy on February 24, 2012, 11:49:46 AM
It will need a heavily armored prow like a beak for ramming.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Apophis on February 27, 2012, 02:45:53 AM
I think the light excimer is a bit overpowered, respect to the burst pd laser the only drawback is 100 less range. But has more dps, is more flux efficient and cost 2 op less


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Apophis on February 27, 2012, 04:48:15 AM
Langoustine has a shield damage of 0.3, only hyperion and omen are below 0.6


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 27, 2012, 07:37:41 AM
Thank you, Apophis.

I missed that one on the Langoustine, I was sure I had bumped that back in line.

And yeah, the Excimer wasn't meant to be that good. I'm having a play with it now.

E: 104 - Langoustine shield error now fixed, excimer received a significant flux penalty, plus a slight damage nerf.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Paul on February 29, 2012, 08:54:34 AM
You added the generators.csv again.

Had me wondering why on earth someone couldn't get your mod to work with mine suddenly, until I downloaded your latest version and saw that.  ::)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on February 29, 2012, 12:02:05 PM
Well that wasn't very clever of me, was it  :-[

Uploaded one that doesn't have it in .... apologies ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Catattack998 on March 07, 2012, 08:05:38 AM
Okay, looks like I have to rescue the thread, because a week without posts is a long time on the internet  ;)

So, does anyone have any comments about existing ships? Any recommendations for new ships? (By the way, I am still hoping/waiting for some feedback about the idea of a JP melee frigate!)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: Doom101 on March 07, 2012, 11:39:16 PM
any word on whether or not this works for .51? well im about to find out ill post here if it still works without any editing ( alex said SOME mods would)

edit: nope doesn't work. sectorgen. something or something breaks on start. i know its junk pirates because when i disabled it it worked.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on March 08, 2012, 05:41:07 AM
Yeah, I am using the sectorgen.java overwrite thingy, which breaks compatibility with other mods.

I need to change it, I'm aware ... hopefully I'll get a chance sooner rather than later.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
Post by: mendonca on March 13, 2012, 03:03:49 PM
Yeah, I am using the sectorgen.java overwrite thingy, which breaks compatibility with other mods.

I need to change it, I'm aware ... hopefully I'll get a chance sooner rather than later.
And that chance was taken!

Updated to 1.05.

This update has just updated the structure of the mod, so it can be used in conjunction with other mods (so long as those mods also obey the rules), but there has been no other content.

This adds a planet Corvus VI, so might be a bit odd also if used in conjunction with any other mods which might want to use Corvus VI.

Tested with Gunrunners mod, seems to work okay, let me know if there are any issues.

---o LINK HERE! o---  (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates%20105.rar) (or check OP)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Krippakrull on March 16, 2012, 04:52:08 AM
Just have to say that I really love this mod. Beautiful, original, sprites along with great balance - no super ships that are a lot better than the other SF ships. Thanks for a great mod man!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 16, 2012, 09:09:06 AM
Aw shucks. Thanks for the nice words, I appreciate it!  ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 20, 2012, 10:49:19 AM
Work in progress of a new ship:

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/scythe.png)

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/scythe_2.png)

It turned out a little smaller than I set out, but I'll have a play and get it in the game and see how it goes.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on March 20, 2012, 11:01:27 AM
Is that a frigate or a destroyer?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 20, 2012, 11:09:54 AM
A destroyer, I suppose ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on March 20, 2012, 11:20:04 AM
A destroyer, I suppose ...
And would ypu mind how the junkies got such a high tech piece of equipment? Did they salvage tritach ships or? ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 20, 2012, 11:34:09 AM
It's not actually that high tech, most of it is recycled soup tins.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on March 20, 2012, 11:35:01 AM
Soup tins....... I expected the junk pirates R&D department to come up with some groundbreaking ship designs but soup tins......
But will they get better?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Dante80 on March 20, 2012, 12:58:44 PM
Soup tins are actually very hard, especially if you are hit in the head with an unopened one.

...back to reality. The new design looks spectacular man, keep the goodness coming, I wonder how will it handle in game...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Doom101 on March 20, 2012, 05:42:18 PM
this mod and mendonca seem to have a strange obsession with soup. ANYWAY onto the real reason im posting this, i have been thinking about it and it bugs me how crap the quality of my spotlight for this mod was i was CLEARLY distracted by something for the majority of the video i can't even remember what it was. So i'd like to redo that and i guarantee it will be a higher quality review. especially since campaign is in now i can actually prepare a fleet with one of each of the ships so i can demo it and each ship better.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Lopunny Zen on March 21, 2012, 02:40:20 AM
i dont get a zipped file...i get a rar and windows 7 acts diffrently


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 21, 2012, 04:24:34 AM
i dont get a zipped file...i get a rar and windows 7 acts diffrently
You'll need a de-compression tool compatible with the 'rar' format.

I use winrar (http://www.rarlab.com), but I am led to believe 7-zip (http://www.7-zip.org/) also works.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Catattack998 on March 21, 2012, 01:27:23 PM
Aw yeah Mendonca! Thank you so much for taking the time to use my idea for a ship! Now, to be even more demanding, the Junk Pirates could really use another cruiser.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 22, 2012, 06:06:51 AM
Aw yeah Mendonca! Thank you so much for taking the time to use my idea for a ship! Now, to be even more demanding, the Junk Pirates could really use another cruiser.

Honestly ... You people ... :D

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/cruiser.png)

(WIP... Of course ...)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: arcibalde on March 22, 2012, 07:04:34 AM
Beautifully, is it mod?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 23, 2012, 08:29:58 AM
I kind of wanted to add a mission for the Goat and the Scythe, but I think I'll do a release anyway without these.

If you want to play with either, the TEST mission should be set up to have a Standard load-out Goat and an Assault Scythe.

Thanks to catattack for coming up with the general design of the Scythe, I'm sorry it ended up as a freighter rather than the murderous cruiser I think it was intended to be ... I'm going to put that one down to the engineering liberties taken by the King.

These two ships are balanced off the Hammerhead and the Apogee accordingly.

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_scythe.png)

The Scythe carries some hangar space and some cargo room, so could be a decent member of a fleet, but it is pretty lightweight (although fast) and can be dangerous in the hands of the player with two medium ballistic mounts, two small ballistic and two small missiles. Kinetic weapons and some Harpoons or Annihilators should make you fairly dangerous against most things. It has an Omni shield, linked to low flux reserves but a good vent rate (and generally low flux requirements anyway).

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_goat.png)

The Goat is similar in armament and speed to the Apogee - with a bit more armour and less crew / cargo / hangar space etc. It can field a shard and a spike wing for escort duty, so it still does okay. The energy-intensive loadout can make flux management an issue, although the systems are fairly advanced and the Goat has a few OPs to play with to make a layout that works for all types of Captain. The positioning of the weaponry is a little bit sub-optimal, but isn't that part of the fun? Frontal shield covers the majority of the ship (300 deg. or so), but limited point defences towards the rear can mean you might require those escort ships. Carries a large energy turret, which suits those sissy Captains that favour (and own) the Tachyon Lance (although you are unlikely to meet a Goat in Corvus that is carrying one).

1.15 released
-Goat Cruiser added
-Scythe Destroyer added
-All mothballed ships changed to hull only
-Octopus mounts now respect correct slot sizes (typhoon in small slot ...)
-Tweaks here and there ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: megal00t on March 23, 2012, 08:35:45 AM
as beautiful as always mendonca. can't wait for more...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on March 23, 2012, 08:38:36 AM
Mendonca, you are a pro, sir 8) good mod here :) (check mine out too ;D ;D)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 23, 2012, 09:21:38 AM
Thanks guys :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on March 23, 2012, 09:25:22 AM
Thanks guys :)
Our pleasure really, since there are not many mods for this game yet, and the mods that exist really are over-the-top form what i've seen with other games. Though i'd like to hear anyones opinion on the mods in general :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Uomoz on March 23, 2012, 10:14:35 AM
Good job! Absolutely love the Goat design.

Will update my mod with this, if it don't bother you is it possible to know which files were modified? (like Junkpiratesspawpoint.java, JPsectorgen.java, junk_pirates.java or single ship files..)

Thanks in advance

 ;)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on March 23, 2012, 11:51:53 AM
Good job! Absolutely love the Goat design.

Will update my mod with this, if it don't bother you is it possible to know which files were modified? (like Junkpiratesspawpoint.java, JPsectorgen.java, junk_pirates.java or single ship files..)

Thanks in advance

 ;)
PM Sent ... ! :)

Hopefully I've picked everything up ...

Thanks for including my mod!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: arcibalde on March 23, 2012, 12:16:29 PM
Sensei  RESPECT  8)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on March 23, 2012, 12:19:31 PM
Sensei  RESPECT  8)
Sensei? Have i missed something ???


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Uomoz on March 23, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
Good job! Absolutely love the Goat design.

Will update my mod with this, if it don't bother you is it possible to know which files were modified? (like Junkpiratesspawpoint.java, JPsectorgen.java, junk_pirates.java or single ship files..)

Thanks in advance

 ;)
PM Sent ... ! :)

Hopefully I've picked everything up ...

Thanks for including my mod!

Just updated the mod with JP 1.15 and Lotus 0.8

Nice stuff!

Keep up the good work!

 ;)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Catattack998 on March 23, 2012, 10:20:40 PM
The positioning of the weaponry is a little bit sub-optimal, but isn't that part of the fun?

Hahahaha! So true!

Mendonca, I can't thank you enough for responding to my ideas, and I absolutely LOVE the new ships. Also, now that you mention the Scythe is a freighter, I realize the Junk Pirates were really in need of one!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: arcibalde on March 24, 2012, 01:54:53 AM
...
Sensei? Have i missed something ???

Well... Yes  ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Catattack998 on March 26, 2012, 06:27:00 PM
Wow! This thread has the third most views (by about 800) of any post on this forum, and the most of any post on here not an announcement!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: DougieK on March 28, 2012, 07:36:04 PM
Having a great time playing with this mod along with the extra weapons mod.  Seriously good work!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on April 04, 2012, 10:48:09 PM
Having a great time playing with this mod along with the extra weapons mod.  Seriously good work!
It's always cool to hear people enjoying this!  :)

New version uploaded:

New mission - The Culmination (with the Goat / Scythe)
Strings tweaked, and added for Goat / Scythe

Main reason for update was to test out Aeolun's mod site, thought I may as well make it as current as possible.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: craftomega on April 05, 2012, 04:24:20 AM
download link is dead


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on April 05, 2012, 06:08:58 AM
download link is dead
Sorry guys, mixing up my filehosters :/

Should be fixed now ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on April 05, 2012, 06:10:04 AM
/Just a random question here, but is that you on the profile pic? If so, why do you have a parrot, this isin't the 17th century.........


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: 2_Wycked on April 05, 2012, 06:14:17 AM
I love this mod... Dugong is da best


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on April 05, 2012, 09:04:46 AM
/Just a random question here, but is that you on the profile pic? If so, why do you have a parrot, this isin't the 17th century.........

It landed on my shoulder at the exact time the camera went off. Pretty weird, really.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Catattack998 on May 01, 2012, 06:12:34 PM
Hey Mendonca, how're you doing? Had time to put together anything for a 0.52a update?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Catattack998 on May 06, 2012, 05:46:44 PM
Aw man, it has been so long. Mendonca, I don't want this to die! This mod has the best art anywhere! Anyone with me?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on May 07, 2012, 12:50:33 AM
Aw man, it has been so long. Mendonca, I don't want this to die! This mod has the best art anywhere! Anyone with me?

Thanks dude! :)

And it's not dead, but I'm not sure the faction needs more ships yet. Maybe when we have multiple systems, but in the meantime I don't think I will be adding more content to this mod.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: arcibalde on May 07, 2012, 08:08:44 AM
Maybe an tiny miny cap ship, a real cap ship, just 1. Tiny... miny... One... Orca is like cruiser... Just one... ? Pretty please?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on May 08, 2012, 01:47:03 PM
Maybe an tiny miny cap ship, a real cap ship, just 1. Tiny... miny... One... Orca is like cruiser... Just one... ? Pretty please?

Let's see ...

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_kraken.png)

(WIP - still got a long way to go :D)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Upgradecap on May 08, 2012, 01:55:42 PM
Hmmm. Nice design, I like it :D
Though, to be honest, that one Looks more light-weight than the orca :-\
I hope it won't be :)

EDIT: my phone can't spell.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Sunfire on May 08, 2012, 01:56:05 PM
That look really sweet, but more mounts!!!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Etfaks on May 08, 2012, 01:59:57 PM
haha very cool, and very beastly looking cap ship! Does it also have carrier capabilities? I would prefer it filling a role like the conquest or similar. Looking forward to seeing it finished man.

Have you btw thought of more OCTOPUS styled ships? One of the things I love about your mod is the diversity you pull off.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on May 08, 2012, 02:25:08 PM
haha very cool, and very beastly looking cap ship! Does it also have carrier capabilities? I would prefer it filling a role like the conquest or similar. Looking forward to seeing it finished man.

It probably won't get carrier capability, no. Something like the conquest is about right, in terms of the rest of the fleet.

It does need more mounts, but I'm not sure where they are gonna go. Probably just get a prototype in and have a play.

Quote
Have you btw thought of more OCTOPUS styled ships? One of the things I love about your mod is the diversity you pull off.

Thanks! Diversity was always one of the key goals. I've tried to make every ship have a distinct role, which is why I am trying not to overdo things with lots of similar ships. To be fair this one is done mainly for fun, but hopefully it will work out ok! :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: arcibalde on May 08, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
SENSEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on May 10, 2012, 12:39:40 AM
(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_kraken.png)(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_kraken_mounts.png)

I think I've got a fixed configuration now, or at least it is getting there.

Three fixed forward medium missile mounts, a selection of ballistic mounts (on red hull) and energy mounts (on blue hull) around about 250 OPs worth of ordnance.

I'll probably get a little test thing up later today, with a little mission to test it out. I suspect it will need a bit of balance though before its finalised - I don't really use cap-ships too much so I couldn't say whether it 'works' too well.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: arcibalde on May 10, 2012, 12:52:44 AM
A think that 250 is lower OP value. Your ship OP is between 245 and 290. It's military ship so it should be between 270 i 290. I would go for 280 :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on May 10, 2012, 11:19:35 AM
(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_kraark.png)

the Kraark

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates_nekken.png)

the Nekken

Just playing about ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: Uomoz on May 10, 2012, 11:25:16 AM
I'm I the only person on this planet that favors asymmetrical stuff to symmetrical? :D

BTW, mendonca, great job on the sprites. I'm really impressed with how you push out this great looking sprites, they feel very original and refreshing (the asymmetrical one! xD).


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: mendonca on May 10, 2012, 01:17:49 PM
I'm I the only person on this planet that favors asymmetrical stuff to symmetrical? :D

BTW, mendonca, great job on the sprites. I'm really impressed with how you push out this great looking sprites, they feel very original and refreshing (the asymmetrical one! xD).
No way man, I don't know if you've noticed, but I prefer the asymmetrical ones. I find it difficult drawing symmetrical ones, as I was brought up to believe they are unethical  ;). And thanks!

I'm posting a 1.20 version of this mod (http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/junk_pirates 120.rar), now with the Kraken involved somewhere. There is a 'test mission' where you can try it out against a basic Hegemony fleet, or take it for a spin in the simulator. There are a 'Standard' and a 'CS' version available, with slightly different loadouts, all built around 280 OPs.

I've noticed the file is a bit bloated by some layered .PDN files. If anybody cares a jot about how I drew the thing you see before you, you can grab it there.

It would be cool if anybody has the time to play around and give feedback on it, but whatever, in the meantime I'll look at giving it a mission and some campaign integration.

e:

Toe to toe with an Onslaught:

(http://www.zen102301.zen.co.uk/starfarer/junkpirates/toetotoe.png)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: serjeh on May 10, 2012, 02:20:35 PM
Thought you might like to see what i made using bits and pieces from some of your sprites.

I call it the Humboldt.

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Sunfire on May 10, 2012, 02:27:43 PM
Well done as always!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.51a
Post by: arcibalde on May 10, 2012, 02:27:48 PM
...
I've noticed the file is a bit bloated by some layered .PDN files. If anybody cares a jot about how I drew the thing you see before you, you can grab it there.
...

Absorbing process completed.  ;D     Processing data  ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on May 10, 2012, 02:39:45 PM
Thought you might like to see what i made using bits and pieces from some of your sprites.

I call it the Humboldt.

Nicely done! That's really cool! :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: serjeh on May 10, 2012, 02:43:16 PM
Thought you might like to see what i made using bits and pieces from some of your sprites.

I call it the Humboldt.

Nicely done! That's really cool! :)

Thank you, its actually my very first time doing something like that.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on May 21, 2012, 12:58:33 PM
Not sure why it has taken me this long, but the Kraken is now floating about in the campaign.

Try it out!   :) (see op)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: vorpal+5 on May 28, 2012, 10:58:14 PM
Hello,

Thanks for your great looking faction!

I feel the Orca freighter is over weaponized. This is a freighter, but with the armaments of what, an heavy cruiser? Are you using BalanceSuite5000 and how it fares?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Upgradecap on May 28, 2012, 11:12:31 PM
Hello,

Thanks for your great looking faction!

I feel the Orca freighter is over weaponized. This is a freighter, but with the armaments of what, an heavy cruiser? Are you using BalanceSuite5000 and how it fares?

The orca is not a freighter, but it is in fact a small battleship/combat carrier, and is designed around that, with matching weapons. :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on May 29, 2012, 07:06:17 AM
Hello,

Thanks for your great looking faction!

I feel the Orca freighter is over weaponized. This is a freighter, but with the armaments of what, an heavy cruiser? Are you using BalanceSuite5000 and how it fares?

Hi there, thanks for comments and the compliment!

and yeah, as Upgradecap says, the Orca is supposed to be highly weaponized, and you'll notice it sits in with the 'Capital' class ships (unless I remembered to shift it in to 'Cruiser' with the latest version ...). It was supposed to be a combat capable carrier, by design, and almost a miniature capital ship.

It is supposed to be balanced, and actually sits okay in terms of the last time I checked it against the BalanceSuite, and Apophis' codex puts it pretty weak in terms of balance (which is okay, as it has decks, cargo, personnel capacity etc.).

Checking again, it is carrying only 10 OP more than the Eagle (which is 2 FP less) and 30 OP less than the dominator (which is 1 OP less). The Orca is also significantly less durable than the Eagle. I don't know really, it's a tough balancing act, and maybe it could do with a few less OP to balance it a bit, but it doesn't seem that far off to me. I'll think about it though...

Have you experienced it being quite a tough cookie, in battle? In my experience I find it a bit of a liability, but maybe that's just the way I play :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: vorpal+5 on May 30, 2012, 05:11:42 AM
Big OOOOOPS. Forget about the Orca. I meant the Octopus... So let's resume the discussion on this ship...


In my hands (perhaps not in the AI's hands, but then the AI has no hand, so no hand no chocolate, oops I digress :)  ) ... what I was saying... yes, in my hands the Orca Octopus is just an awesome toy. It is cited as a freighter, but have these following attributes:

a) transport a lot of cargo and fuel. Ok, that's a freighter.

b) has a hangar size of 20. Now, that seems a lot, check the other ships, the carriers of other races have that, not much more. In essence, it has the hangar size of an escort carrier, close to a fleet carrier.

c) 1 large missile slot. This is the abuse I believe. LARGE, really, for a freighter? This seems very weaponized to me. Check the other ships of your faction at the destroyer level, even them don't have a large slot... I would remove it entirely, and even without, it would have more weapons than any other freighter, and on par with most of the others combat destroyers of other fleets.

Check in comparison the weapons of a condor light carrier or a walkyrie troop transport. Your Octopus is uber weaponized I believe. At least, remove the large mount, that should be reserved for military ships I think...


While I'm there, I humbly request to be able to use your faction in my total conversion mod, where the Junk Pirates would be used by the PRC instead (People Republic of China). For that, I would also need to rename the ship classes, but I would leave the weapons and weapons mounts untouched. The look of your faction would fit quite well what I have in mind for the PRC, so please? You would get full credits in the readme, sure.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on May 30, 2012, 07:13:43 AM
Big OOOOOPS. Forget about the Orca. I meant the Octopus... So let's resume the discussion on this ship...

a) transport a lot of cargo and fuel.

b) has a hangar size of 20.

c) 1 large missile slot.

Aaaah ... yeah, the Octopus.

When you put it like that, I had to go and check. Indeed the Octopus does have a Large missile slot. I thought it was medium ...

These are all very valid points, and I will think about how I balance this back down. I was always kind of assuming that due to the AI Octopi exploding on a regular basis, the combat capability of the craft was suitably low, not quite appreciating that this was down to a sub-optimal variant more than the actual physical balance of the hull. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

While I'm there, I humbly request to be able to use your faction in my total conversion mod, where the Junk Pirates would be used by the PRC instead (People Republic of China). For that, I would also need to rename the ship classes, but I would leave the weapons and weapons mounts untouched. The look of your faction would fit quite well what I have in mind for the PRC, so please? You would get full credits in the readme, sure.

This sounds cool, and in principle I would be very interested to see these ships in another mod with a different flavour!

So I will say, yes!  :) Go for it (I don't see a problem with it being part of another total conversion). Also, if you are doing this as part of a total conversion, and you are renaming the ships etc., feel free to play about with the ship builds, if you feel it is necessary for what you are trying to achieve.

Without wanting to sound like a twerp, I hope you don't mind if I withhold the right to withdraw this permission (as I haven't seen what you are trying to do with your mod yet - I'm sure I won't have an issue with it when I see it, but I hope you understand where I am coming from).


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: NikolaiLev on May 31, 2012, 09:00:38 PM
Hiya.  I just started playing as JP in Uomoz's Corvus mod.  I started with the sickle, and I realized the Standard loadout has advanced optics.  You might not know this (I know I didn't until I tried this out) but advanced optics only affects beam weapons, not energy ones.  So, tactical lasers are affected but say, pulse lasers and Cutlasses are not.

The Standard Sickle has two Scatter PD lasers and a Cutlass, as well as Advanced Optics, which ends up being a waste of 5 op.  Might want to rethink some of the loadouts.  :P


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on June 01, 2012, 01:42:33 PM
Hiya.  I just started playing as JP in Uomoz's Corvus mod.  I started with the sickle, and I realized the Standard loadout has advanced optics.  You might not know this (I know I didn't until I tried this out) but advanced optics only affects beam weapons, not energy ones.  So, tactical lasers are affected but say, pulse lasers and Cutlasses are not.

The Standard Sickle has two Scatter PD lasers and a Cutlass, as well as Advanced Optics, which ends up being a waste of 5 op.  Might want to rethink some of the loadouts.  :P

Good point! And thanks for raising it ... I've had a pass through all the ship variants, and nerfed the Octopus.

1.22 available from the OP.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: NikolaiLev on June 01, 2012, 09:22:47 PM
I'm liking the faction far more than I initially thought I would.  As I fought them from an IF perspective they were little more than cannon fodder, but playing them is quite rewarding.  They have an awesome feel to them.  I love capturing enemy ships and refitting them with a schizophrenic loadout, adding to that junky feel of my fleet.

Other than some balance issues (why is the Dugong so expensive?) my biggest complaint would be the ships are just... too colorful.  They have this ugly maroon/dark turquoise color to all their ships with the occasional baby blue.  Maybe it's just me being a dullard, but I'd much rather see them more grey, brown and rusty than so... colorful.  @_@

Gotta admit, the color scheme was what made me lukewarm towards the faction when I started playing.  Other than that I like the ships.  The Goat is my favorite so far.  Oh, and the sprites themselves look very nice, though some of them look too... organic.  But again, all personal taste.

Oh, and for some reason I get a SPAZ vibe from the ships, though I can't actually recall what most of those ships looked like.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on June 02, 2012, 12:21:37 AM
Ha ha! Yeah, I can't say I've ever been particularly good with colours, this actually reflects one of my better artistic endeavours, with respect to the use of colour. The honesty is much appreciated.

I put the Dugong relatively high because of it's excellent fire support options, a large missile mount on a cruiser supplemented with three mediums is 'top of the range', and it also has a decent assault capabilty with a low crew overhead. I just think it's pretty good, and didn't want to offer it too cheap :)

E: of course, I'm very glad you're enjoying it. This makes me happy :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Avan on June 02, 2012, 12:57:02 AM
:D
New ships!

I like the progress you've made, and it seems that a few of your original ships got some touchups too. Or am I just imagining that?  :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on June 02, 2012, 02:15:01 AM
Or am I just imagining that?  :D

No, depending on when you last looked at them, the Orca, Sickle, Hammer and Octopus in particular have been tweaked a few times ... If I had the time, most of them would get another few passes of touching up aswell ... :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Avan on June 02, 2012, 02:17:20 AM
Ok, I thought so!

Particularly noticeable on the sickle and hammer.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: NikolaiLev on June 02, 2012, 02:11:19 PM
Ok, I thought so!

Particularly noticeable on the sickle and hammer.

Well greetings, comrade!

By the way, another minor complaint.  The Spikes seem far too fragile to be 6 FP, I would think they'd be competitive with the Broadswords but they don't have the firepower to match up and iirc they don't have much else going for them.  Cleats are nice, though.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 06, 2012, 05:22:04 AM
Damn. This new version has thrown a massive curveball in to the balance equation.

Just having a play about with systems before I get this thing updated, and working on something else:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_phase_destroyer_v2.png)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Erick Doe on August 06, 2012, 05:46:47 AM
Damn. This new version has thrown a massive curveball in to the balance equation.

Just having a play about with systems before I get this thing updated, and working on something else:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_phase_destroyer_v2.png)

Oh yes. Those phasing ships are doing quite a number on my poor Ante's. Nice new ship though. It looks like an organ holding on to several parts. It also reminds me of an octopus, thanks to those squid like arms and that lobe at the bottom.



Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: MShadowy on August 06, 2012, 06:30:37 AM
Damn. This new version has thrown a massive curveball in to the balance equation.

Just having a play about with systems before I get this thing updated, and working on something else:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_phase_destroyer_v2.png)

Yeah it has.  Guess I was slightly lucky in that I had less to work with.  Still, your mod is one my favourites I'm eagerly awaiting the next release.  Also, JP phase destroyers(?), hehehe.  Excelleeent.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 07, 2012, 12:21:42 AM
I've updated to v1.30.

- New ship - the Turbot (Phase Destroyer)
- New system - Phase Drones
- Systems added to existing ships:
  sickle - burn drive (point capper extraordinaire)
  clam  - fortress shield
  hammer - fast missile racks
  Boxer / Boxenstein - jets
  Octopus - midline pd drones
  Orca - hi-tech pd drones
  Stoat (A&B) - burn drive
  Langoustine / Kraken - HEF
  Scythe - Flares
  Goat - sensor drones
  Turbot - phase drones
-Turbot variants added to campaign fleets, and a mothballed hull available at Junk Yard
-Turbot available for test drive in 'Test Mission' (also in corresponding refit / simulator)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: keptin on August 07, 2012, 12:36:37 AM
I really enjoy this mod, the ships have a lot of personality and are a ton a fun to pilot, kill, and be killed by!

Also, the sprites are fantastic!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 07, 2012, 01:13:35 AM
I really enjoy this mod, the ships have a lot of personality and are a ton a fun to pilot, kill, and be killed by!

Also, the sprites are fantastic!
You are far too kind, of course!  :D

(Thanks!)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: medikohl on August 07, 2012, 01:26:35 AM
I recognize a chunk of the Valkyrie on that phase ship


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: medikohl on August 07, 2012, 01:28:43 AM
actually I see a lot of familiar chunks on it... damn i've been kitbashing this game far too much


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 07, 2012, 01:46:33 AM
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_turbot.png)

Well, there were a couple of spare Tarsus and Valkyrie hulls kicking about, it didn't make sense to build it all from scratch. At least we went to the trouble of giving it a lick of paint.

Although that's mainly because we have about 3 decades stock of blue and red paint to get through that we found on a decompressed Venture floating somewhere around Kapteyn's Star.

Our engineers are not proud people, but they ARE pretty smug about getting remote phasing technology working.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: robokill on August 11, 2012, 06:38:30 PM
it would be cool if you replaced the phase modules with cargo bays, some hangar space, and a flight deck


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Wriath on August 12, 2012, 12:52:31 AM
Clams have gotten more annoying than ever but in an entirely good way, they do an incredible job of taking on ships with energy weapons and just generally outlasting their opponents.
EDIT: Also pretty glad you never got around to changing the name of the mod, nothing wrong with being junky if you do it with style.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Lopunny Zen on August 12, 2012, 07:19:07 PM
what happened to the fighters bigger gun..now all it has is a machine gun and it seems they can barely do anything now...and at 3 at a squadron


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: robokill on August 12, 2012, 07:59:37 PM
i think this mod needs more fighters


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Rybread on August 12, 2012, 10:34:54 PM
That phase ship. That accursed pile of incredibly effective scrap.
It is absolutely brutal in the best way possible. The A.I. handles it well, and it really does change the course of the battle. I have to play much smarter than the typical "Guns Blazing" approach now.
Awesome job in actually making me think about how to tackle a ship for once. It's a foreign feeling to me. :D

Cheers!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 12, 2012, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: Lopunny Zen
what happened to the fighters bigger gun..now all it has is a machine gun and it seems they can barely do anything now...and at 3 at a squadron

I'm not sure I know what you mean? The Spike still should have a Light Dual AC and a Vulcan ...

Quote from: Rybread
That phase ship.

Ha ha! I'm happy that you are struggling!  :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 13, 2012, 11:47:36 AM
In trying to get to the bottom of any strangeness in my mod apparently crashing U's C, I've been spending a small amount of time tweaking things.

I've confirmed, as best I can, that the Clam can successfully use Fortress Shield (watching it flicker on and off for an AI piloted clam under 'player' control) and also got Turbot phase drones deploying by allowing them to 'free roam'.

I've also added a nice weapon which I think fits the mood - a 'grapeshot' launcher. It fires a canister of shrapnel which is explosively discharged in the direction of an enemy fleet. Works great against talons and unarmoured folk, and can do a decent job of overwhelming shields.

It's a medium mount currently, although having hacked together the MIRV with the Harpoon medium mount, it maybe comes out a bit big. I'd appreciate some balance comments if anyone had a chance to have a play, I have set the ammo quite low deliberately to limit the thing being 'spammed' - but it seems quite effective. It might be a touch OP - but then it is completely negated by decent shields.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Uomoz on August 13, 2012, 12:01:58 PM
I'll replace all JP content in U'sC with fresh files, just to get sure it's not all a copying error on my part.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Alex on August 13, 2012, 12:24:14 PM
2026328 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.lwjgl.util.vector.Vector2f.sub(Vector2f.java:208)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.systems.String.Ø00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.systems.String.ØÒO000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.systems.String.int.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.systems.OOoO.öÒ0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.F.ÔÓÓ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.oOOO.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)

I am running several other mods, but I'd seen people having a similar issue so I thought it might be worth mentioning.

Saw this in the U'sC thread and looked into it. This could happen when the EMP Emitter is activated and targets a ship that has an engine or weapon slot outside its shield radius, *and* the shield is a full 360 degrees. (If the shield is less than that, it'd still crash, but in a different place). Changed core code to make this not crash - though it's technically still a data error.

No telling whether the offending ship is Junk Pirates related.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 13, 2012, 12:41:21 PM
Hey, thanks Alex. To be fair, that sounds pretty much like it could be Clam related.

I'll nudge the shield out a bit to try and avoid this.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: Alex on August 13, 2012, 12:46:43 PM
Ah yeah, that thing always did have a very tight shield. The phase ship looks awesome, btw.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.52a
Post by: mendonca on August 13, 2012, 01:42:15 PM
Ah yeah, that thing always did have a very tight shield. The phase ship looks awesome, btw.

Thanks, man!  :)

I've done a few tweaks again, enlarged the shield on the clam and tested it against a Shade, so it seems to be getting EMP'd properly.

Also picked up a few things from 1.31 that slipped through due to my awful version control ...  :-[ (I really need to get my dropbox synced up)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: mendonca on August 14, 2012, 01:15:42 PM
Hardly worth a bump, but I've added in small, medium and large versions of the (tweaked) grapeshot - I couldn't resist.

A Hammer destroying some Talons:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/grape_01.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/grape_02.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/grape_03.jpg)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: Wriath on August 14, 2012, 01:19:44 PM
Yay! I did something useful!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: Uomoz on August 14, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
Will update U'sC with this cool stuff as soon as Ante gets updated with convoys. :D

EDIT:

Noticed a small thing some time ago that bugs me a little. There seems to be a slight offset between the weapons and the ship sprites (maybe due to the fact that they were made without ship editor?). I can fix it in half an hour time with Trylobot tool and send you the updated files if you wish!

(http://i.imgur.com/Q1OOV.png)
(like the gun on the right)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: mendonca on August 14, 2012, 10:46:46 PM
... I can fix it in half an hour time with Trylobot tool and send you the updated files if you wish!

(like the gun on the right)

Thanks for the offer!  :) ( and for pointing that out )

I've went through them anyway and updated them - most of the pre-Trylobot ships were a bit off in some way with the weapon positions, but now all turrets are centred - hopefully I've picked the issues up.



Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: Trylobot on August 14, 2012, 11:07:42 PM
.. most of the pre-Trylobot ships were ..

I am officially an epoch.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: Thule on August 15, 2012, 01:11:02 AM

I am officially an epoch.

Epic quote is epic  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: Uomoz on August 15, 2012, 04:01:33 AM
I am officially an epoch.

+1


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: bluntfang on August 17, 2012, 01:00:13 PM
Has anyone else noticed a change in how easy these ships are to overload now?  I remember them being pretty tough, but with just a couple of light needlers I can have half their fleet disabled in no time.  When I pilot them they are fine, but give it to the AI and they seem to overload in a matter of seconds.

Never mind, sounds like you have figured out the problem and are getting it sorted.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: Uomoz on August 17, 2012, 03:29:48 PM
mendonca! I summon thy! Try open the codex and check the Turbot stats in vanilla JP.

Surprise! null!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: FlashFrozen on August 17, 2012, 03:39:55 PM
OM NOM NOM NOM NOM'D

Found the error,

we left out a column in the ship_data.csv

it's the column right after shield type,

so right now it's

SHIELD TYPE | SHIELD ARC 

when it should be

SHIELD TYPE | DEFENSE ID | SHIELD ARC 

PHASE            phasecloak

Edit: on the offchance I'm wrong, I'll eat my words :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53a
Post by: mendonca on August 18, 2012, 01:36:40 AM
Nice one Flashfrozen - great spot - and I don't think you will need to be eating any of your own words, that sorted it.

E:

New fixed version up.

Aslo quite a bit of tidying up of variants, setting autofire preferences etc. and making some of the weird ones look a little bit more sensible (the langoustine was cheating with it's universal medium slot, in some cases).

Also the Langoustine and the Orca have finally found a use for those silly appendages (Yay built in weapons!)

Hope I haven't ruined something else now!  :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: robokill on August 18, 2012, 06:50:25 AM
scythe still awesome check
hammer still terrible check
awesome art style check
everything checks out here


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: mendonca on August 23, 2012, 07:06:14 AM
scythe still awesome check
hammer still terrible check
awesome art style check
everything checks out here

 ;D

I had a crushing feeling of inferiority after seeing the excellent standard of all-round design starting to creep in to the place (I'm looking at you, Cycerin  >:() and so I had to apply a bit of polish to the Fleet Graphics for these guys in the OP.

I like the style but I'm contemplating a few little tweaks - and I haven't got the 'civilian' ships in yet.

Would be cool to get some feed(http://)back?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: Cycerin on August 23, 2012, 05:20:14 PM
I have been summoned, bringing smugness to fill the smugvoid created by invoking my name.

Seriously though, I love what you're doing here. Especially enjoyed all the tongue-in-cheek humor in the new descriptions. I think your Dugong is the most memorable design, that diagonal O'Neill Cylinder-esque thing is a great touch. Going to come back with a trip report when I've actually played the mod.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: robokill on August 23, 2012, 06:01:04 PM
I want a bigger awsomer scythe fast lots of pd lots of cargo lots of hangers and still goes head to head with everything else


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: mendonca on August 24, 2012, 07:35:40 AM
I want a bigger awsomer scythe fast lots of pd lots of cargo lots of hangers and still goes head to head with everything else

Whacked up a concept, just for kicks and it's Friday afternoon and I refuse to do any more work today. It's not quite in brief ... but ...

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_construction.png)

I'm thinking of a large construction vessel, with a big built-in welding laser sticking out the front. Lots of drones being constantly manufactured to provide PD support, maybe even more active defense, and a flight deck plus cargo.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: Brainbread on August 24, 2012, 11:01:19 AM
So, the Turbot is now my favourite ship to fly around in. Grapeshot launcher (M), Heavy Blaster, Augmented Engines and Expanded Missile Racks, 10 Caps/11 Vents. Can stay phased forever, the drones on Free Roam are really effective and good at tackling, and 170 top speed means you can make a run at an enemy, phase out and coast at them with way more speed than you'd expect from a ship its size.

Also, the addition of Ship Systems really helped out the Junk Pirates faction a lot. Scythes aren't as squishy, Clams are frustrating to fight (actually take a lot of fire to kill), and just overall they are a more credible threat.

The capital ships are still a bit weak, and the Kraken is dead in the water against a Wolf with a Phase Beam and the Optics Hull Mod, even with Resistant Flux Conduits. Have you thought of changing out its mods for Omni shields? I think that'd benefit it greatly, more so with its huge back door and very little weapons coverage there at Medium-Long range.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: robokill on August 24, 2012, 07:32:36 PM
"hey look cargo ship wait those drone wont die missles dont work this couldnt get worse aahhhh giant blowtorch"

lets call it the REAPER


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: mendonca on August 28, 2012, 01:03:03 PM
Sprite heavily work in progress (lots more colouring / texturing to do) but it's coming together:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/the_reaper.png)

At present it is a very effective 'back field' carrier due to the TNT drones. These have a light assault gun, but are also supported by their own pair of Welding Drones with Burst PDs. When the drones are out, thats 4 lightag's and 8 burstpd's in a field around the ship. There are a few turreted weapon mounts, typically mounting more PD such as flak cannons, but that's about it - apart from the STYGIAN DRILL, which is acting as a massive graviton beam at the minute. But I need to figure out whether it works quite right.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/stygian_drill.png)

This ship was designed to sit in front of big rocks and blow the devil out of it with the HE weaponry of the drones, cut things in half with the Drill, or fix things with the welding drones. It has a fixed frontal shield, and the onboard factory allows it to repair fighter craft out in the field or replenish the fog of drones.

It's okay as currently prototyped, and could be an awesome fleet carrier, but it just isn't that fun to play with. The drill is great at pinning people down from huge ranges, but it can't cut through and do any real damage. I could buff damage but it might end up being well OP.

The lack of any further weaponry, apart from the drones, means it is a bit limp against cruisers and above - and there are no real tactical choices apart from 'stick the drill to them' but it can beat most Cruisers due to the range of the drill alone.

Hmmm ... I like the concept, but implementation is not quite right. I wonder what to do ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: robokill on September 03, 2012, 06:33:07 PM
It could use 2 or 3 small mounts just my thaughts do what you think fits


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: mendonca on September 04, 2012, 12:14:44 AM
It could use 2 or 3 small mounts just my thaughts do what you think fits

I might take you up on that suggestion.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: mendonca on September 04, 2012, 11:28:55 AM
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_splinter.png)
The Splinter - a new fighter available at your nearest arms dealer.

Equipped with a deadly combination of two Vulcan cannons on the highly aerodynamic* wings and a light dual machine gun upfront, you will be the envy of all your friends. And your enemies will wish they were your friends. Even if that means being envious of you.

*not suitable for use in atmospheric conditions

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_the_reaper.png)
The Reaper - for when a Venture just doesn't say 'Rugged Enough'.

When you crossed over the river Styx at the end of your previous life, after being sucked out the airlock of a decompressing Buffalo, you don't remember it being THIS AWESOME.

The Stygian Drill at the front of this thing is the perfect weapon for cutting asteroids in half. Unfortunately, it struggles slightly against anything more mobile. Might be better relying on your Drone subsystem, or perhaps a support wing of fighters taking advantage of the onboard flight deck.

(released 1.40 - see OP)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: Ghoti on September 04, 2012, 01:01:17 PM
You know. I just keep looking at it. It can't possibly be

is that a STAIRCASE?
IN SPACE?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: mendonca on September 05, 2012, 12:45:39 AM
You know. I just keep looking at it. It can't possibly be

is that a STAIRCASE?
IN SPACE?

I ... err ... I suppose it is?

 ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: Jonlissla on September 05, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
is that a STAIRCASE?
IN SPACE?

Thanks, now I will never be able to unsee that.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: TheHappyFace on September 05, 2012, 09:12:45 AM
You know. I just keep looking at it. It can't possibly be

is that a STAIRCASE?
IN SPACE?

I ... err ... I suppose it is?

 ;D
O_o

I have to admit i would have never come up with that idea  ;)
you mendonaca are the master of creativity!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: robokill on September 05, 2012, 08:11:58 PM
Add lights and bigger engines.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.53.1a
Post by: Ghoti on September 06, 2012, 07:21:28 AM
and more staircases.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on November 25, 2012, 05:20:33 AM
I've been through the mod, diversified fleets somewhat, brought variant OPs in line with 0.54 and also fixed the Clam and Hammer bounds.

The Clam has also received a significant top-speed nerf, to stop irritating fortress shield abuse. It's still probably irritating, but if you have it pinned down and outnumbered you get to decide how and where to engage the damn little thing.

Unfortunately no more staircases, yet.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: WKOB on November 25, 2012, 07:00:50 AM
That Reaper is hands-down the coolest ship you've made, and that's saying something.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on November 25, 2012, 07:54:36 AM
That Reaper is hands-down the coolest ship you've made, and that's saying something.

Ha! Thank you!  :D

Have you tried actually flying one, yet?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on January 21, 2013, 11:26:30 AM
Very small update. Feel free to pick it up if you are really missing the fact that the JP specific systems don't have any descriptions prior to this release.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: theSONY on February 12, 2013, 03:49:36 PM
S'up, there's a little "bubu" on the sicle sprite nothing much,that's not a chunk of something, that 100% part of the ships hull
my worke here is done, off i go...<whoosh>

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Shield on February 14, 2013, 08:23:55 AM
I still think you need to have like a super junker destroyer-esqe ship


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: icepick37 on March 12, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
Playing this now (with a handfull of other mods) And HOLY crap it's changed. So much new stuff!  :D I like it. A lot.

Is the reaper the one with ridiculous drones and the mining laser? 'Cause that thing is straight out of my dreams.  :)  Haven't really piloted it much. Bought one in a non-saved play to goof off with. Need to pit it against another capital, but it is super fun so far.  :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on March 13, 2013, 05:42:15 AM
Playing this now (with a handfull of other mods) And HOLY crap it's changed. So much new stuff!  :D I like it. A lot.

Is the reaper the one with ridiculous drones and the mining laser? 'Cause that thing is straight out of my dreams.  :)  Haven't really piloted it much. Bought one in a non-saved play to goof off with. Need to pit it against another capital, but it is super fun so far.  :D

He he, thanks :)

Yeah, the Reaper has the drill of Styx, a kinetic energy drill that is a real heavy hitter on shields (or armor) but very unwieldy. Also the Reaper itself is anything but a combat craft - and using that big drill is just begging to get yourself overloaded.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on July 02, 2013, 01:35:37 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/sickle_perspective.png)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: arcibalde on July 03, 2013, 04:12:27 AM
Sweet man!  ;D 

Ok now do another one  :P


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Gotcha! on July 03, 2013, 06:03:48 AM
Oooh, a ramming ship? Nice.
I'd been thinking about making a very heavy ship with a gigantic bumper and burn drive capability. Does one exist yet?

I like the insane ramblings/comments on your ship sheet.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Pelhamds on July 03, 2013, 06:39:25 AM
Oooh, a ramming ship? Nice.
I'd been thinking about making a very heavy ship with a gigantic bumper and burn drive capability. Does one exist yet?
I think that my Brute Ram ship is the closest to this, also not to be a shameless ho anymore I will complement the picture :P


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on July 04, 2013, 05:05:14 AM
Sweet man!  ;D 

Ok now do another one  :P

Okay dude, will do! (Just give me a few days or so ...)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: arcibalde on July 04, 2013, 05:18:37 AM
Okay dude, will do! (Just give me a few days or so ...)
;D

Well, now, you do know it would be crime that you don't make all of them, right? Just take your time and do it one by one  :P


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Gotcha! on July 04, 2013, 05:24:03 AM
Don't kill me please, but I have to admit that I found the colour combinations you used quite disturbing.
However, in-game they actually look pretty good! Well done. Well done indeed.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on July 04, 2013, 08:48:56 AM
Don't kill me please, but I have to admit that I found the colour combinations you used quite disturbing.
However, in-game they actually look pretty good! Well done. Well done indeed.
Ha ha! Thanks I guess!

I have a pretty terrible eye for colours ... so I'm happy to take that criticism on board but can only suggest that I will not improve in the future.

I think it's been proven many times over that you can chuck just about any sprites in to Starsector and the game engine makes it all look great :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on July 04, 2013, 01:46:06 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/langoustine_perspective.png)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Gotcha! on July 04, 2013, 02:20:36 PM
I can see car parts in that! Awesome. :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: arcibalde on July 04, 2013, 02:29:09 PM
Sweeeeet  ;D


Akhm,


MOAR!  ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: phyrex on July 04, 2013, 04:14:24 PM
Sweeeeet  ;D


Akhm,


MOAR!  ;D

gotyta admit, those sketches are awesome


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: HELMUT on July 04, 2013, 04:42:34 PM
Damn, those drawing are neat! I hope we'll soon see some new sprites as well.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on July 05, 2013, 06:52:19 AM
He he, cheers guys :)

MOAR!  ;D

I might regret this - but any requests for what's next?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Silver Silence on July 05, 2013, 10:14:00 AM
Release the (artsy) Kraken!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: phyrex on July 05, 2013, 11:55:09 AM
He he, cheers guys :)

MOAR!  ;D

I might regret this - but any requests for what's next?

go from weirdest to plainest, like the boxer and boxenstein looks the simplest while the dugong, the orca and the kraken look the weirdest


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: theSONY on July 05, 2013, 12:21:07 PM
i rather see a new ship sprite
& keep the best vanila balanced mod


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: arcibalde on July 05, 2013, 12:59:01 PM
I might regret this - but any requests for what's next?
Nah, just make them all  ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Thule on July 05, 2013, 01:39:41 PM
Love your drawings, keep them coming.

And i would love to see a Fighter cockpit ^^


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Erick Doe on July 06, 2013, 10:04:46 AM
Medonca, I like the sketches. They remind me of retro cars and hotrods making babies with stylish space shuttles.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: HELMUT on July 06, 2013, 04:02:14 PM
And i would love to see a Fighter cockpit ^^

+1, i'd like to see a Spike cockpit!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: mendonca on July 08, 2013, 02:22:59 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/kraken_perspective.png)

Not sure it's done, but I need to get away from this drawing and will post anyway ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Silver Silence on July 08, 2013, 05:45:46 PM
Kraken Klass. Something about that just tickled me. Ah, I giggled at that for much longer than I should have.
Makes me think something along the lines of "Let's make it orky!"


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: arcibalde on July 20, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/kraken_perspective.png)

Not sure it's done, but I need to get away from this drawing and will post anyway ...
Hahahaha he totally got this face -_-. Look on top of it  ;D

Excellent drawing btw  8)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.54a
Post by: Gotcha! on July 20, 2013, 01:55:29 PM
There's a recreational vehicle sitting on top of it. :o <3


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 15, 2013, 03:07:53 PM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates160.zip

Okey dokey, think this is working for an initial 0.6a release.

- New system - Breh'inni, a little bit up from Corvus and Askonia.
Junk Pirates are present in here, but they don't do anything exciting yet. Visit the system AT YOUR PERIL!!!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Alex on September 15, 2013, 03:43:06 PM
Very cool!

Looks like one of the weapons is using "burst_pd_loop", which isn't found - crashed when I moused over one of the fleets in the new system.

Also, did you do anything special to make the hyperspace entrances near all the gas giant real bright, or did they just turn out that way? Almost looks like they're doubled up - possibly some auto-created by the auto-generate-jump-points code, and some created manually in the same place.

Aha! Yeah, stuff is getting generated twice. Once in onNewGame(), once in onEnabled(). Should probably just do it in onNewGame() for now, until 0.6.1a, where the bug with onEnabled() being called on *every load* is fixed. (Ideally, though, you want to create stuff in onEnabled().)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Borgoid on September 15, 2013, 09:20:45 PM
Clicking on " The Reaper" in the Codex (From the main menu or in game ) crashes me straight to desktop with the error message " Fatal: Spec of class [com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.L] with id [high_intensity_laser-intro] not found.  Check starsector.log for more info"


Edit: Also clicking on the " Test " mission gives the same error Alex reported


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 15, 2013, 11:17:56 PM
Thanks for the reports guys :)

The perils of copy-pasting without fully understanding what the hell you are doing ...

I did take the sound ids from vanilla .wpn files, so I've obviously missed a trick somewhere with those ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Borgoid on September 16, 2013, 12:02:44 AM
I'm not a coder but [com.fs."Starfarer.loading.specs.L" sends up a red flag to me.

With any luck it's an easy fix :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 16, 2013, 02:11:53 AM
On the sound ids, that was just lazy lookin'. The vanilla files DO have some unused 'loops' or 'firing' sounds for the two beams I was copying, but it's pretty obvious to the untrained eye that these have been commented out. I didn't do the same. Oops.

Commented out the OnEnabled() part of the ModPlugin, which should stop weirdness for now.

Also done a little tweaking of the variants, made the Standard Kraken a little more viable (although a broadside full of HE is fun ... it's not that scary against something with a shield ...) - also removed the vestigial energy weapon sticking out the front of the Dugong.

As well as a pretty wide-ranging detail pass to the sprites (still got the Turbot, Kraken and Reaper to do), that about sums it up. Hopefully this one does actually work now.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates161.zip



Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Wriath on September 16, 2013, 05:18:23 AM
How would one go about setting up one of the junk pirates ships as a starting ship?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 16, 2013, 05:34:57 AM
How would one go about setting up one of the junk pirates ships as a starting ship?

Create a 'plugins' directory in mods/junk_pirates/data/scripts/.

Stick this file in here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/CharacterCreationPluginImpl.java

And you should get the option of starting with a Standard Sickle instead of the Hound (something else option). You can fiddle with this file to change the options as necessary, or give me a shout and I'll do a custom one at your request?

You will still start in Corvus, and have normal player hostility level to the JP, however.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Wriath on September 16, 2013, 05:40:42 AM
I've done just enough modding to know what you mean! I could set the JP to Friendly without too much trouble.
EDIT: Thanks man! shoulda said that first.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Jazzrish on September 17, 2013, 09:50:26 AM
conduct error, may u good sir fix it  :-*

14447125 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull [junk_pirates_dugong] variant [junk_pirates_dugong_Standard]: slot id [WS 015] not found for weapon [gravitonbeam]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull [junk_pirates_dugong] variant [junk_pirates_dugong_Standard]: slot id [WS 015] not found for weapon [gravitonbeam]
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.public.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.instantiateForCombat(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatFleetManager.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatFleetManager.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatFleetManager.deploy(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatFleetManager.deployAll(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.return.???000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.oOOO.super.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 17, 2013, 10:22:43 AM
Sorry sir, I thought I had made good those variants ... Apparently not!

I've just figured it out. I saved the variant down in the wrong place ... D'oh. Wondered where that came from when I deleted it ...

If you want to fix it yourself, go in to junk_pirates/data/variant/junk_pirates_dugong_Standard.variant, open it in a simple text editor and delete the following bit:


      {
      "autofire": false,
      "mode":"LINKED",
       "weapons":{
                "WS 015":"gravitonbeam",
                },
      }


Alternatively give me a couple of hours and I'll sort it out for you ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 17, 2013, 11:37:38 AM
Fixed!

Also done the gracious thing and reverted colour to that used in U'sC.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates161b.zip


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Jazzrish on September 17, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
nice work dude~


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Gotcha! on September 19, 2013, 02:27:38 PM
Backfeed! Some minor things/polish'r'uppers:

- Breh'inni IV has two jump points due to one being the gas giant jump point. Maybe you can remove the gasgiant = true line from the planets config file? Then you're left with one two-direction jump point for this planet.

- Junk Pirates listening post is 'on' its neighbouring planet. Might be on purpose. To me it looks a bit weird. At least non-vanilla. :)

- Descriptions for all your beautiful planets pretty please? *puppy eyes*

Nice job. :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Darloth on September 21, 2013, 08:30:50 AM
Quick balance note:

The Shard is supposedly the preferred escort craft, but it has a PROHIBITIVE cost at 4.5 supplies per day (that's like a destroyer) and a slow repair rate so deploying these in combat costs loads.

they're reasonably tough but not exactly bulletproof, have no shield, and aren't too badly armed but aren't all that great there either.  I can't really see any reason for these to be a preferred escort craft for anybody - I'd make them cheaper in supplies per day and make them quicker to replace after combat - maybe as much as 10% if they're that preferred (and assuming you don't want to reduce the CR per fighter deployed), as there'll be lots of spare parts on hand?

While I'm at it, there's only a 10 supplies-to-repair difference between the boxer and the boxenstein - perhaps add 0.5 supplies per day as well?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: etherealblade on September 21, 2013, 09:40:29 AM
Thanks for that epic but balanced starter ship. Man...I actually can take on the lowbie ships and win. This is really a refresher because most starter pirate fleets have at least one frigate and 2 fighters against our one.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 22, 2013, 01:25:15 PM
Thanks for the lovely feedback chaps.

On fighters, I am in no position to make a judgement as I haven't played with a fighter fleet at all yet. Tried to balance them against Vanilla, sounds like I misjudged that a bit. Will have a play about with the Shard - but yeah, Darloth, your suggestions sound sensible.

Been getting some Hegemony fleets in to interact with the JP System and Corvus, I'm a little short of time due to a house move, but I'll try and incorporate some changes in the next couple of weeks.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: HELMUT on September 23, 2013, 07:02:50 AM
Same as Darloth, i tried to use some JP wings for a carrier based fleet but when i saw the supply cost i was like "NOPE". But in some way, even vanilla wings are pretty much imbalanced with their gigantic supply cost.

Only the Cleat bomber with 2 supplies per day seems reasonable to me.

Btw, will the reaper class will get some kind of special capacity like the construction rig? For now it's only a big flying target, giving it some logistic abilities would make it interesting to field.

Also, will you update your sprites like you did for the Goat and the Orca? They look much nicer.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Taverius on September 23, 2013, 07:58:49 AM
Same as Darloth, i tried to use some JP wings for a carrier based fleet but when i saw the supply cost i was like "NOPE". But in some way, even vanilla wings are pretty much imbalanced with their gigantic supply cost.
Yeah Alex is fixing that in 0.6.1 ... for example the Wasp costs 6x as much supplies as it should. CR per deploy x fighters in wing x (total CR hit / repair-per-day) can quickly balloon to huge numbers when you're not used to the CR mechanics.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 24, 2013, 01:15:15 AM
Btw, will the reaper class will get some kind of special capacity like the construction rig? For now it's only a big flying target, giving it some logistic abilities would make it interesting to field.

Yeah, good point, it should definitely have the same (or similar) 'construction' abilities as the rig.

Quote
Also, will you update your sprites like you did for the Goat and the Orca? They look much nicer.

Yeah, definitely will in time. I'm a bit scared of taking on the Kraken, could take a long time once I have started with that one. Also should probably sink a few more hours in to the Dugong, a small amount of time for the Langoustine, maybe a quick pass over the Turbot - leaving the last major work being the Reaper itself. Oh dear. That won't be fun.

I'll get there though, and thanks, glad you appreciate the difference :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: NikolaiLev on September 25, 2013, 01:34:03 PM
Hey Mendonca!  I'm afraid there miiiiight be an issue with your mod, specifically the JP system.

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6919.msg113204#msg113204

I'm still not too sure who (if any) the culprit is for my problem.  But at the very least I have to ask: why does your system have so many duplicate gravity wells and fringes?

When I approach these, it puts a fairly massive load on my GPU.  This save is me up to level 15, and my frame rate slows to a crawl, presumably due to duplicate particle effects.

Here are some pictures.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43800264/Pictures/ss1.png)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43800264/Pictures/ss2.png)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43800264/Pictures/ss3.png)

(I dunno what's with the first two screens, ignore that top part)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 25, 2013, 01:47:26 PM
Could I ask which version you are using?

The very first 0.6a version had a bug where each time you loaded a game, the system would generate, however the latest junk version has worked around this.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: HELMUT on September 25, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
Bre'hinni going supernova, have JP got their hands on some doomsday sun-killer device? ;D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: NikolaiLev on September 25, 2013, 03:08:17 PM
Could I ask which version you are using?

The very first 0.6a version had a bug where each time you loaded a game, the system would generate, however the latest junk version has worked around this.

Looks like it was an older one.  1.60.  I'll try the newer one, thanks!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 30, 2013, 11:25:46 AM
Minor update, picking up most things people have mentioned in this thread, including better Exerelin integration. See OP


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Uomoz on September 30, 2013, 02:34:37 PM
I guess no ship value changes, or am I wrong? :D

Back to the update hell!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on September 30, 2013, 11:43:43 PM
Fighter supply costs have been changed, and Boxenstein supply cost nudged up a touch.

Strings csv has picked up descriptions for the planets ... And SectorGen has been tweaked to fiddle with the planets / orbits of station, and introduction of a graphical ring around breh'inni II (fighter shells in orbit).

I THINK that is about the sum of it ...


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: Taverius on October 03, 2013, 01:52:35 PM
mendonca, this crashes upon loading game in 0.6.1 because the DEFEND objective for missions doesn't exist anymore - Alex says use ATTACK.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on October 03, 2013, 02:42:19 PM
Thank you, Taverius. Should get five minutes tomorrow night to bash out a quick fix :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6a
Post by: mendonca on October 04, 2013, 12:12:23 PM
Done and updated (see OP), let me know if there are any further issues :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.1a
Post by: Withering on October 04, 2013, 04:15:23 PM
Hey, just wanted to say that I absolutely LOVE this faction.

Clam, hammer, boxerstein and dugong are absolutely great. Haven't tried orca or kraken yet.

Keep it up! :) I really like ballistic weapons, armor and missiles.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.1a
Post by: mendonca on October 06, 2013, 01:05:16 AM
Hey, just wanted to say that I absolutely LOVE this faction.

Clam, hammer, boxerstein and dugong are absolutely great. Haven't tried orca or kraken yet.

Keep it up! :) I really like ballistic weapons, armor and missiles.

:D

You're my new favourite person :)

Do let me know if you have any useful feedback, always happy to hear people's thoughts.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.1a
Post by: Zaphide on October 10, 2013, 05:10:21 PM
Hello mendonca,

One of my favorite JP ships the 'Langoustine' doesn't seem to have it's Scorpion built-in specified quite right; it is absent from the codex and is not added to the default "_hull" variant when spawning at stations.

To fix, I think you'll need to add the following in junk_pirates_langoustine.ship:
Code:
"builtInWeapons": {
    "WS 001": "junk_pirates_scorpion",
               }


While I'm here, the Dugong seems to have really tight fitting constraints, where I usually have some weapon slots vacant/downsized and no hull mods! Not sure if you were going for this as it is still great for concentrated firepower and can absolutely shred targets in the right circumstances but it does feel a bit compromised given the available weapon slot layout etc. I don't know that it actually needs more OP or less weapon slots; I still think the ship is effective. Perhaps I'm trying to get too much out of it?

Anyway, definitely one of my favorite factions to play as :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.1a
Post by: mendonca on October 11, 2013, 10:35:54 AM
Thanks Zaphide,

I think I must have broke the Langoustine doing a quick mount-positioning check on the ships.

Will do a quick update tonight.

I'll give the Dugong some thought, although it is supposed to be a little low tech, it did just lose 10 OP recently when I removed the nose energy mount. Maybe it should get those back ... That mount was not any use anyway.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.1a
Post by: Uomoz on October 11, 2013, 10:42:28 AM
Small feedback, a Jp-mission icon would be great!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.1a
Post by: mendonca on October 12, 2013, 02:39:50 PM
Quick fix up to 1.64, fixed the Langoustine and nudged the Dugong up a little in OP terms.

Small feedback, a Jp-mission icon would be great!

You know what, I totally agree. Will give it some thought (it's a serious decision) and implement soon!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.1a
Post by: Axiege on December 06, 2013, 08:27:47 PM
Reported bug for modded game that includes Junk Pirates: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7477.0


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: mendonca on January 21, 2014, 02:03:25 PM
Quick balance pass for 0.6.2a, and updated weapon glow on the STYGIAN DRILL.

Hopefully all is in order.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: mendonca on March 23, 2014, 11:55:13 AM
UPDATE.

Nothing major from a gameplay perspective, but all round graphical improvements to sprites have been made.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: Uomoz on April 05, 2014, 10:27:29 AM
Hey there 'donca! I've been messing around with ships AI and I noticed you gave the AI hint CARRIER to Orca, Reaper and Octopus. This make them shy away and keep the distance. I think that at least the Orca (given the Haymaker) could work a lot better without it. Thoughts?

Thanks for this amazing mod btw.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: Protoman on May 11, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
I love every aspect about this mod, other than the fact that they seem to get annihilated by every other faction they go against(The Nayorates... really hate that faction). I think its just because yours is so vanilla balanced OR they lack luster when regarding firepower. You should make a junk pirate frigate/destroyer/cruiser/capital/battlecruiser using Hightech ship parts and built in weaponry, Just a thought :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: mendonca on May 12, 2014, 12:41:39 AM
I love every aspect about this mod, other than the fact that they seem to get annihilated by every other faction they go against(The Nayorates... really hate that faction). I think its just because yours is so vanilla balanced OR they lack luster when regarding firepower. You should make a junk pirate frigate/destroyer/cruiser/capital/battlecruiser using Hightech ship parts and built in weaponry, Just a thought :)

Thank you, that's very nice of you to say so! It's always good to hear people's thoughts on this mod.

I think the problem re. balance vs. Mayorates et. al is a difficult one that I am not necessarily keen on approaching (this faction is not supposed to stand up to a Tri Tachyon level of technology, so therefore wouldn't stand a chance against those factions which are currently balanced at this level or above).

I guess I always want to reference against Vanilla, rather than risk clouding the mod world with factions of ever increasing power, even though I appreciate the reasons why this might be fun (and useful) for players of Exerelin etc. I always consider comments - but I'm happy with where this faction is, at the minute, despite - as you say - a potential lack of bite.

I suspect that might be more to do with the comparisons against some of the royal ass-kickers present elsewhere (including some of the vanilla machines) rather than necessarily the fact that the JP are completely impotent.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: Erick Doe on May 12, 2014, 05:40:19 AM
Junk Pirates is well balanced. Please don't ever change that. Indeed, comparing to other mods is risky business. It can end up like an arms race, where mod factions become increasingly more powerful in an effort to balance up against one another.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: JDCollie on May 12, 2014, 07:00:57 AM
Junk Pirates is well balanced. Please don't ever change that. Indeed, comparing to other mods is risky business. It can end up like an arms race, where mod factions become increasingly more powerful in an effort to balance up against one another.
Which is why mods should, at least in my opinion, always be balanced against vanilla. That isn't to say vanilla's balance is perfect, or even excellent, but it does provide a solid baseline I think. Otherwise you end up with situation like you describe (and which can be observed in World of Tanks :P) Powercreep anyone?


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: Dibuk on May 12, 2014, 08:46:37 AM
Which is why mods should, at least in my opinion, always be balanced against vanilla. That isn't to say vanilla's balance is perfect, or even excellent, but it does provide a solid baseline I think. Otherwise you end up with situation like you describe (and which can be observed in World of Tanks :P) Powercreep anyone?

This. So much this.

Also, I'm happy to see this mod is still being updated!


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships, Missions, Campaign mod for 0.6.2a
Post by: Catattack998 on May 15, 2014, 11:16:48 AM
Oh man, it's been so long since I played Starfarer Starsector. It's great to hear from you, Mendonca and Eric. So much of this game has changed, but my favorite mod is still Junk Pirates. As others have said, the balance is perfect to vanilla, but also the art style is so incredibly consistent with vanilla ships as well. Don't get me wrong, lots of mods have some great art, but these ships don't feel out of place, nor do they look like glued-together vanilla ships.

My one request is that the newer ships be added to the post in another fleet overview image. I think that would be the Scythe, Splinter, Octopus, Stoats A & B, and the Reaper.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: mendonca on September 14, 2014, 12:46:37 PM
Ok, at last, ShaderLib support (normals and materials on ships only, weapon lighting) for the Junk Pirates.

GET IT WHILE IT'S BROKEN HOT (http://goo.gl/kOn3GA)

Also a reasonable amount of work has gone in to sharpening up the quality of some of the sprites - most of them should be better lit, with more detail and less sketchyness.

But other than that, nothing new.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: Uomoz on October 06, 2014, 07:39:31 AM
There is... Definitely interesting stuff, hidden inside this update. :D


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: domovie1 on October 15, 2014, 02:19:27 PM
Could someoone explain why I am getting an error screen that says Parsing compilation unit "com.fs.starfarer.loading.super$1@e0f004 ?
Thanks


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: mendonca on October 16, 2014, 09:58:04 AM
Could someoone explain why I am getting an error screen that says Parsing compilation unit "com.fs.starfarer.loading.super$1@e0f004 ?
Thanks

Hi there!

I'm sorry, but I haven't had this issue and I'm not sure what could be causing it.

Is there any other information you can give? Have you pinned the fault down to this mod (have you any other mods running?)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: Wriath on November 01, 2014, 09:13:28 PM
Oh god baby, we need it.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: mendonca on November 03, 2014, 05:47:42 AM
 :)

Thanks!

It's fair to say that I will release an updated version at some point. Had a decent run at getting a working version going last night, but there is a lot of detail to think about even after hitting that point. Hopefully in a week, but more likely in a bit longer I think.

Context becomes ever more important with 0.65, something which I have not required to think about too much.

Even considering throwing together all my mods in one package (removes the need for each particular faction having 'dummy' link systems populated by independents etc. just to tie markets together).

Also there is the flavour text to write. And the icons to draw. So many details :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: Wriath on November 04, 2014, 06:04:18 AM
Take as much time as you need bro, but uhh, JP is definitely a staple part of my Starfa... *ahemwhatever* experience. They're the bad guys you kinda want to get drunk with.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.6.2a - ShaderLib support
Post by: MesoTroniK on November 04, 2014, 03:20:36 PM
Even considering throwing together all my mods in one package (removes the need for each particular faction having 'dummy' link systems populated by independents etc. just to tie markets together).

I endorse this idea :)


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.65.1a
Post by: mendonca on November 16, 2014, 02:17:16 PM
JUNK ASP PACK v200 (http://goo.gl/WozBOj)

DUMP. Whoah this should work for now. Shaderlib support suspended, but only because I haven't gone through the process of making all of it compatible yet.

- ASP Syndicate added. New System - Ursulo. Contains ASP hub (Paddington - a busy trade port).
- PACK added.
- Canis system subsumed.
- New system - York. Hegemony agricultural powerhouse (Lincoln) and Pack and JP frontier worlds.


All mods have been added together as I find I have less time to maintain them all these days, in theory I should be able to tweak and nurdle all three mods at the same time a little bit easier than doing one at a time. If you are particularly offended by any of these factions, comment out the relevant system generation in JunkGen.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.65.1a
Post by: MesoTroniK on November 16, 2014, 02:28:03 PM
Woooh, some of my favorite mods with good balance and vanilla friendly art is back! And you did merge them all into one, it does make it easier to maintain them and is similar to my long term goals :)

I'll try to make some time to play them and give you my thoughts sometime soon Mendonca.


Title: Re: 'Junk Pirates' - 0.65.1a
Post by: Zaphide on November 16, 2014, 02:48:19 PM
ASP are a definite contender for my favorite faction, first mod I ever downloaded I think :) Really like the art style and the lore!

I think merging them into 1 mod is a good idea. If you wanted, you could setup your own settings file with options to turn on/off the factions i.e:

data/config/mendonce_mod_settings.json:
Code:
{
    "enableASP":true, # Boolean
    "enablePACK":true, # Boolean
    "enableJunkPirate":true, # Boolean
}

and then check those settings when running your generator code:
Code:
JSONObject settings = Global.getSettings().loadJSON("data/config/mendonce_mod_settings.json");
Boolean enableASP = enableThreading = settings.getBoolean("enableASP");

if(enableASP)
{
    // Do ASP sector gen
}


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: Zelphir on November 24, 2014, 09:16:33 PM
don't get me wrong I think your ships look good but something about the way the armor is textured makes it look organic, almost alien to me. good mod, good onto you, good in your life.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: Creepin on November 25, 2014, 02:39:31 AM
Hey there mendonca! I really loved your ships in Uomoz's Sector, and I miss them now that I switched to SS+. Any chance you might consider making your factions compatible with SS+ as well?

Frankly, I have no idea how hard it is or even if it should be done from your end or SS+ one, but I figured I'd ask anyway in case it turn out to be something within your control and not that difficult :)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: mendonca on November 25, 2014, 05:19:04 AM
Hey there mendonca! I really loved your ships in Uomoz's Sector, and I miss them now that I switched to SS+. Any chance you might consider making your factions compatible with SS+ as well?

Frankly, I have no idea how hard it is or even if it should be done from your end or SS+ one, but I figured I'd ask anyway in case it turn out to be something within your control and not that difficult :)

That's good to hear - and that would be great!  :)

I talked briefly about it with Dark.Revenant a few weeks before the latest update hit, hopefully it's something I can work towards.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: Wriath on November 25, 2014, 09:35:56 AM
If you activate it alongside SS+ it functions, they just don't have interactions with the other mod-races. Thanks for the update man! Really glad to see these guys back in action.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: Creepin on November 25, 2014, 11:05:14 AM
Thanks Wriath, I'll try to, though I definitely hope for a full integration :)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: TartarusMkII on December 05, 2014, 03:12:12 PM
Heya, I am new to this mod and having an issue with Star Sector +. I just wanted to run this by the creators of this mod pack to see if maybe it was affecting the game's economy.

In Ursulo there is a system called Yogi. It has 3 food for sale at 23 credits, where elsewhere in the game food is in much more demand at a higher price. The market screen says that 100% of the demand is met by local supply and stockpiles, and it is selling the excess (of 3 food).

Using this as an example, I just want to ask if this is normal and acceptable for the economy? I don't know how it works so well, but I'm just trying to figure out what is making my playthroughs of SS+ so difficult. Thanks!


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: mendonca on December 06, 2014, 06:12:56 AM
It doesn't sound unreasonable ... Yogi is an industrialised terran planet with a small population, it can feed itself adequately, doesn't have high demand and so won't have high prices, i guess it's just (un)fortunate that there is a small excess and not a large excess like some of the other food producing planets.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: TartarusMkII on December 06, 2014, 12:36:22 PM
Hello Mendonca, thank's for the reply!

Yea, it makes perfect sense that it would not be a planet known for producing much food; I just have a poor understanding of how the eco works in this game because I expect it to be more simple than it actually is!

I like the mod so far, although I don't usually come into contact with those who live on those two moons. Or actually, I don't really come into contact with any of the three factions yet.. But I appreciate their existence in my game!


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: mendonca on December 08, 2014, 12:17:57 AM
I can't say I fully understand the economy, so my assertions are mostly guesswork.

I did deliberately keep most markets relatively small such that the mod has a fairly limited impact overall on the state of the systems. The three factions in this pack are also not supposed to be particularly powerful, so it's good that you rarely come across them. The exception would be ASP, I guess, who are locally (within Ursulo) pretty powerful in that they operate a relatively big market.

I'd be very interested to hear any particular specific feedback you may have on the mod, if you have any opinions either way :)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: CopperCoyote on December 08, 2014, 01:03:10 PM
I can do a large write-up if you'd like. I do have some things that really stick out in my mind though.

Biggest thing is i don't recall seeing any military markets in the top 3 system (York Urslo or Brehini). It makes it harder to buy the cruisers or capitals. The next biggest thing is ASP doesn't seem to have enemies spawn in their system so you can't push relations above 50 (from trade). If you're willing to tank relations with hedge you can get JP to 100 in York. I haven't been to Canis yet so don't know if you can get them above 50.

The Diamondback is the best cargoship for frigate swarms. It doesn't fight as well as the hound, but has more room. It's really great. I usually try to get one ASAP. The only downside of the diamondback is the overhead: .25 supplies per day from crew. I really like the other ASP ships too. Like a highish-medium tech versions of the venture but at different sizes than the venture. Good all around ships. Though you probably don't want your main combat force to be ASP ships.

The Hammerhead(?) frigate is probably the ultimate Fire-support ship. You get 2 medium missile mounts for so little cost. It does die easily in a melee, but it's worth the cost of micromanaging. In general the JP ships are good at one thing but a little lackluster overall. Which i think may be the goal. They're on average better than buffalo2 though so they're not helpless. Their strange layouts make it a little hard for me to use though. The ai seems fairly happy with them however. I really like the integrated weapons; they seem pretty balanced, and feel good to use.

Two JP weapons really fall flat. The scatter PD and the grape family of launchers. Neither does enough damage to be good fragmentation weapons. The scatter is an awful PD weapon i prefer even regular PD laser over it. It misses too much. It feels kinda like the vulcan did before it was buffed. The grape spread is too wide in my opinion, and when it does hit it's doing painfully small amounts of damage after even 100 points of armor most fighters have. Furthermore fighters mostly dodge all the shrapnel anyway (hence thinking too much spread). Frigates have an easy time of dodging most of the shrapnel too.

The eximer and cutlass feel like the energy equivalants of the AC and arbalest. Rather undesirable, but if the only ones available then they'll have to make do. They're bad against armor due to being beam weapons. Hence the comparison to kinetic ballistic weapons. They are much more OP expensive than their ballistic counterparts however. They're fine for outlaw types I suppose.

I'm not near my PC and can't recall the other weapons in JunkPirates.

I haven't really used PACK ships since i'd seen them in Uomoz's sector in .62. I can't give any meaningful feedback.

Outside of mechanical effectiveness i love the thematic naming. The snakey names for ASP (which i like is a name for a subcatagory of snakes). The bear names for Urslo (which sounds like ursus-more bearness). The oceanic creature names in JP. The canid names for PACK. It's all great. I might have missed more themes, but the ones i have found make me smile. It's a nice touch.

That's all i can tell you from memory. If you'd like a more detailed amount of feedback i'll take notes (my memory is underwhelming). It might take a little while though, because it's a little hard to get enough ships from this mod to be your primary force.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: mendonca on December 09, 2014, 12:37:50 PM
Thanks for your thoughts, it's all great :)

The Hammer is an absolute beast in this version. 2 Pilums and fast missile racks make pretty short work of just about anything without having to risk the fragile rear-end. I noticed how easy it was to 'pop' enforcers with this simple little ship. I think it needs a rethink with the recent missile buff, at such a small and cheap ship.

I hear what you are saying re. military markets, and I'm not sure whether I will put them in. Perhaps the Junk Pirates should have one - it would explain why they can maintain a certain amount of dominance in that region of space. Basically I don't think universal access to all ships (just because) is that much fun - I like limits, and balance - and by just adding the military base so that you can buy the ships you want to fly is not (for me) enough of a reason on it's own.

I guess I would be happier coding in a lore-coherent equivalent which doesn't give a +2 stability, but opens up a market on good relations that gives access to the same sort of stuff. On the other hand, if you want the ships - you can (try) and take them! I'll definitely give it some thought.

The scatter PD is probably way behind where it was a few versions ago (where it seemed to be okay in terms of PD vs pilums, if not for anything else). I'll take a look at that as well.

Grapeshot probably got left behind as well, relative to the other missile slots. I'll take a look, but I'm not altogether unhappy with it - for what it is.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP Syndicate and P.A.C.K.)
Post by: mendonca on January 18, 2015, 01:56:24 AM
Another version; uploading as it is in order to get something out there that represents a coherent version.

- Shaderlib support should now be back in. This version REQUIRES shaderlib.
- Canis should be a lot more interesting - added Jameson Orbital pirate base (with military market); made Port Revive (TT) more interesting with local conditions. Petra added military market - Which side are you on?
- York should now be a bit more interesting; Christchurch and Dartmouth are more functional and distinct as economies.
- Added a few market conditions:
  * Active Militia (Military Base on a smaller scale; adds military market, lower demand increases, doesn't increase stability)
  * Cryoculture (Food production to the ice worlds with Hab-tubes; Glory and Dartmouth)
  * Research Outpost (Port Revive generates some demand of research based materials, and adds stability)
  * Junk Yard (Shipbreaking on a smaller scale)

- The PACK and JPs now have available military markets. It's relatively difficult to access the JP one due to the limited activity in Brehinni; unless you want to mess with the Hegemony in York? PACK are much easier now - you could mess with the pirates in Canis and quickly get access to the market(s).
- Missions fixed
- Fighters balanced (Thanks to DR for the help in that)
- Other Ships (particularly freighters) now rebalanced to fit closer to 6.5.1a norms. Most ship costs amended. e.g. Octoopus and Scythe are no longer the super cheap super freighters they once were.

GET IT WHILE ITS HOT!!!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates230.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates230.zip)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tommy on January 18, 2015, 04:49:26 AM
HECK YEAH. Was just about to suggest some military markets for them :)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tommy on January 18, 2015, 12:10:35 PM
Using the new version, this happens:

(http://i.imgur.com/vfJ15eE.png)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 18, 2015, 01:07:53 PM
Ah, sorry about that. Obviously that one evaded my testing ...

Stick the attached file in ./starsector/mods/JP_RC/data/lights/. and overwrite the file as a short term fix before I get a chance to update ... I had incorrectly pathed the materials and normals for the ion drone ...

Thank you for pointing that out, I appreciate it, let me know if there are any other issues.

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Sleeeper on January 18, 2015, 03:37:31 PM
Error loading [graphics/pack/ships/material/pack_pitbull2Material.png]

Fixed it and few more errors:

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: zaszella on January 18, 2015, 06:14:18 PM
Finally updated
All three factions in one mod.Looks like a 66%off. :D


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 18, 2015, 10:47:47 PM
Error loading [graphics/pack/ships/material/pack_pitbull2Material.png]

Fixed it and few more errors:

Thank you

(My computer has a rubbish graphics card, I can't test with shaderlib properly :()


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Nanao-kun on January 20, 2015, 05:33:09 PM
Are the fixes mentioned in previous posts in the current version?


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 20, 2015, 11:15:51 PM
Nanao,

Not yet incorporated in the download, sorry. Will try and get a maintenance update out in the next couple of days, but also working through some details on balance and other finer points with D.R on SS+ integration, so still need to do a bit of testing to make sure my current version is as stable and correct as possible.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tommy on January 21, 2015, 02:36:21 AM
Nanao, just use the link above: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=161.0;attach=2727

Works perfectly, tested :)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' (now including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 23, 2015, 03:25:00 PM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates231.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates231.zip)

Updated version, maintenance for last time, and preparation for SS+ compatibility.

Hopefully all is well, still can't quite thoroughly test with shaderlib, so I hope everything is fixed (going to bed now ... zzz)

Lots of tweaks and fine tuning this time round, all of which are frankly only possible thanks to the discerning eye, good taste (and direct help) of Dark.Revenant.

A few more things to do, but those will take a bit more time to fix properly.

Junk Pirates v2.3.1
- Rebalance of a number of ships, particularly cost to buy and FP to field (D.R)
- Faction descriptions added
- Shaders fixed (D.R)
- Dudong ship tweaked (D.R)
- Grapeshot buffed (D.R)
- Du(g)ong support variant fixed (pilum was in wrong group)
- Some text stuff tweaked
- PACK and ASP post bounties


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: JohnDoe on January 27, 2015, 09:09:10 AM
I've been getting overwriting confirmation for duplicated file "JP_RC\data\campaign\econ\junk_pirates_cryoculture.java~" when extracting using 7-zip. Is this intended behavior?


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: OOZ662 on January 27, 2015, 11:36:48 AM
It seems two copies were included somehow; one is both newer and larger, so I assume it's the intended one.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 27, 2015, 11:57:17 AM
I've been getting overwriting confirmation for duplicated file "JP_RC\data\campaign\econ\junk_pirates_cryoculture.java~" when extracting using 7-zip. Is this intended behavior?

Ah okay, yeah, I see.

It seems there are backups of files in the campaign/econ/. folder - I was under the (mistaken, obviously) impression I had cleaned these up throughout the zip - and there are two because linux (my machine) thinks cryoculture.java~ and Cryoculture.java~ are two separate files, whilst windows does not (hence the overwrite prompt)

It shouldn't affect things either way (the 'tilde' files aren't used by SS, they are just because I haven't deleted them) and I'll tidy the file up when I next get a chance.

Let me know if there are residual issues (I don't think there will be) and thanks for bringing this up.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Delta7 on January 30, 2015, 03:36:16 PM
the junk pirates... are aptly named. their ships look like they were cobbled together from junk, which they apparently were. i respect the mod itself, but i... just cant force myself to like any of it's ships. keep in mind this is coming from a guy who regularly builds chrome plated abstract space art that i call spaceships, so maybe the aesthetics are a personal thing. or maybe im too used to the BSF forums where even the mid grade shipbuilder's creations would be considered top of the line ships by SS standards. and maybe that's part of why i want to convert all those beautiful BSF spaceships and factions into actual SS mod factions...


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: TartarusMkII on January 30, 2015, 04:40:00 PM
the junk pirates... are aptly named. their ships look like they were cobbled together from junk, which they apparently were. i respect the mod itself, but i... just cant force myself to like any of it's ships. keep in mind this is coming from a guy who regularly builds chrome plated abstract space art that i call spaceships, so maybe the aesthetics are a personal thing. or maybe im too used to the BSF forums where even the mid grade shipbuilder's creations would be considered top of the line ships by SS standards. and maybe that's part of why i want to convert all those beautiful BSF spaceships and factions into actual SS mod factions...

I agree that it is your personal sense of aesthetics. There are plenty of mods already that have very sleek figures, including ships in this mod itself (ASP & PACK). If I had to agree though, I'd say that rather than incorporating halves of whole ships, and looking oddly new and shiny, I feel like they could be cobbled together from existing ships, with some pieces missing, or hastily replaced with metal or exposed mechanics. As they are though, I don't really mind.

Anyway, to the author, a friend and I had an idea to make the Junk Pirates more interesting; it may be possible to create hull mods for their ships that give bonuses to loot from battles, of some kind. I figure they and their ships would be good at making use of every piece they can get.

Thanks for readin'!


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 30, 2015, 04:43:44 PM
or maybe im too used to the BSF forums where even the mid grade shipbuilder's creations would be considered top of the line ships by SS standards. and maybe that's part of why i want to convert all those beautiful BSF spaceships and factions into actual SS mod factions...

Did you just compare BSF ships to the best stuff SS has to offer?


(http://i.imgur.com/6oC7Wjb.gif)


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tartiflette on January 30, 2015, 04:57:41 PM
or maybe im too used to the BSF forums where even the mid grade shipbuilder's creations would be considered top of the line ships by SS standards. and maybe that's part of why i want to convert all those beautiful BSF spaceships and factions into actual SS mod factions...

I laughed! You are saying that this:(http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=4908&mode=view)
is "top of the line" compared to this:(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starfarergame/images/e/ef/Eagle_base.png/revision/latest?cb=20141025061113)

"Aesthetics are a personal thing" indeed.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Delta7 on February 15, 2015, 06:03:09 PM
that... was one of my first ever ships, and one of the crappiest things ive ever built. im still ashamed of it. and im at best a mediocre BSF shipbuilder. this is what a proper ship looks like: http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=5073&mode=view
and even that isnt necessarily great by BSF standards. the outer pylons look slightly disconnected if you look at them. i just like the bright colors and high tech look of most BSF ships more than the dull, though not in any way flawed SS ships. they are definitely their own games with their own styles.

edit: actually, my old ship looks a little bit like a symmetrical, brightly colored junk pirate ship. messy, rough and a bit ugly, though with a not too horrid general shape/ outline.
and this is an example of an experienced BSF shipbuilder: http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6885 on par with the best SS modders out there.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Creepin on February 16, 2015, 07:35:15 AM
this is an example of an experienced BSF shipbuilder: http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6885 on par with the best SS modders out there.
I don't feel myself equipped with enough technobabble (or, rather, artsybabble in this case) to pass the judgement on that art in general, so let me speak from my personal point of view: I would have really hard time (and would eventually fail to) convincing myself to put ships as under quoted link into my SS experience due to them being dull, choppy and, well, primitive. On the other hand, Junk Pirates went to my SS+ even when they were formally incompatible because they're fun, look cool and, most importantly, blend with vanilla stylistically.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: HeartofDiscord on February 16, 2015, 10:45:58 AM
and this is an example of an experienced BSF shipbuilder: http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6885 on par with the best SS modders out there.
I don't know man, these are nice, don't get me wrong, but SS's ships are really quite nice. Now that we have shaderlib around too, there's a whole lot we can do to make stuff look exceptional. I feel like these BSF ships are a little too square and uniform overall, and look like they need some kind of AA pass, but who knows.
I imagine most people here will be inclined to like SS ships better. A lot of us have been with this game a long time, and seen many mods full of greatness come and go. Personally, I love the look of curves on SS ships, and how different they can all look, and Junk Pirates is a good example of this, I think.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Delta7 on February 17, 2015, 09:10:50 PM
SS ships have their charm, both vanilla and mod ships. i think the main reason i prefer BSF ships is because of the enormous variety and massive versatility (plus polish) of the shipmaker. even an idiot like myself could, given the proper time and section sprites, make a half decent ship. not necessarily on your first try mind you (as one has given evidence of), but... you dont have to be a spriter to make BSF ships. you absolutely have to be a pixel master to make a truly exceptional SS ship, and some people on these forums are definitely not (that last statement was a matter of personal opinion, the fact that one person likes or hates a style/ ship regardless of skill level/ experience does not make it good or bad.)
SS ships do have their own varied and unique styles, though to a somewhat lesser degree. there are some pretty epic SS mod ships out there, and some vanilla ships are pretty cool too. just the same as BSF, some mod ships are better than others, but ive probably already gone too far with my comparisons so im going to stop now.


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Ahne on February 20, 2015, 06:45:47 PM
I want to face bad bad pirates within the starsector+ mod so i need the junk pirates! :)

Is there an update coming soon?

Greetings
Ahne


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on February 21, 2015, 01:41:02 AM
:)

Shouldn't be too long ...


Title: Re: [0.65.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Ahne on February 21, 2015, 05:49:31 AM
Thx man, appreciate your hard work!


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on February 21, 2015, 02:18:38 PM
Junk Pirates 2.3.5

DOWNLOAD HERE (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates235.zip)

General update for 0.65.2a RC2

Weapons rebalanced, variants tweaked etc.

Also sees the introduction of three ranges of higher-spec PACK ships (skins of existing hulls, in ascending order of effectiveness):

CAOMARELO:
Yellow tinged ships with a tendency towards ballistics, higher OP counts and improved engines. Skins for Wirefox, Samoyed, Schnauzer.

ROTHUND:
Red tinged ships with heavier armour and higher op counts. Skins for Schnauzer, Pitbull, BRT, Komondor, Ridgeback X

CANEBIANCO:
White ships with improved shields (generally fixed frontal), more energy weapons, and much increased OP counts. Skins for Bedlington, Pitbull, Komondor.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/pack_pitbull_canebianco.png)
CANEBIANCO technicians are rightly proud of the modifications they have effected upon the venerable Pitbull-class Destroyer.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/pack_BRT_rothund.png)
The ROTHUND machine shop have added more armour, retooled the medium energy mounts, and significantly boosted combat performance by reverse-engineering the more modern vessels in operation today, and applying these technologies to the comparatively primitive and inefficient chassis of the BRT.


Availability is reduced for these higher spec ships, have fun trying to collect them all!


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Nanao-kun on February 21, 2015, 02:21:33 PM
Awesome.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Toxcity on February 21, 2015, 03:20:53 PM
I like the small differences between the skins and base hulls (more armor on the ROTHUND).


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 21, 2015, 04:45:08 PM
I love the mod as always mendonca, but a couple of preliminary thoughts and observations regarding this update.

You forgot to add the maps for the new skins to the texture_data.csv, and those ships are really powerful with no real downsides. In my opinion you should give them the High Maintenance hullmod, increase their FP cost, and perhaps add a custom hullmod that increases supplies/day. The increased credit cost of them just is not enough to justify the rather large increase of power that those ships wield.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Ahne on February 21, 2015, 05:52:31 PM
juhu THX man!


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Nanao-kun on February 21, 2015, 08:34:23 PM
I love the mod as always mendonca, but a couple of preliminary thoughts and observations regarding this update.

You forgot to add the maps for the new skins to the texture_data.csv, and those ships are really powerful with no real downsides. In my opinion you should give them the High Maintenance hullmod, increase their FP cost, and perhaps add a custom hullmod that increases supplies/day. The increased credit cost of them just is not enough to justify the rather large increase of power that those ships wield.

Aren't they also more rare though? Omnifactory doesn't count.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 21, 2015, 10:01:23 PM
Rarity is not really a valid balancing factor.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: WKOB on February 22, 2015, 12:10:57 AM
Why not?


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tartiflette on February 22, 2015, 12:39:57 AM
It's only a time limitation: it promote grinding, or worse gamification (like buying all ships from the same class to force it to spawn), and ship is still OP in the end.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Ahne on February 22, 2015, 12:41:17 AM
..because when you got it in a market you buy it,its simply too strong and it can overpower other similar ships in battle (i talk generally about rarity as a balancing factor)

//thats the easy way to describe the problem, im not in the mood to go into detail because your short "why not?" message implicates a subtle taste of ignorance and prejudiced opinion on that topic and you believe that there will be no answer to that "question"



Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: WKOB on February 22, 2015, 12:46:42 AM
It's a single-player RPG, people are going to do that anyway.

I mean, the Paragon is clearly OP but it's balanced by price and rarity, what's the real difference? I'm not saying that these ships might or might not be a little too much, but this constant need for all the ships to be perfectly in-line with one another is just odd to me.

It's just how the real world works, a Hi-Point 9mm is extremely common, extremely cheap and it's trash, a Glock 19 is just slightly less common, it's more expensive and it's decent, a customized competition Tanfoglio 9mm is rare, expensive and flat-out better than the other two options.

Quote
subtle taste of ignorance
Talk about reading into things too much, it was a simple question because I don't understand the concept.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tartiflette on February 22, 2015, 12:53:53 AM
The Paragon isn't balanced, even with it's rarity. As soon as you find one you finished the game. (It's much less OP in SS+ but that's another story) Besides there is a difference between having ONE ship rare and OP and a whole bunch of them: you could reliably find at least one each month.

subtle taste of ignorance
From someone that keeps bugging modders to update their mods all the time without the slightest idea of the work it represent, I find this subtle taste of arrogance disturbing.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: WKOB on February 22, 2015, 12:55:20 AM
So... you're saying that the campaign is inherently flawed due to it's unfinished state, and therefore trying to reach balance in it is somewhat pointless? :P


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tartiflette on February 22, 2015, 01:04:43 AM
On the contrary! I'm stating that balancing your whole mod against a singular obviously flawed instance is a bad idea. (An common error in many mods that used to balance their ships against the Paragon when the Onslaught is a far better measure)

And even if it was a valid balancing factor, my point stand that it encourage grinding or gaming the mechanic, witch aren't desirable I believe.

[edit] I'm not saying it's a useless balancing factor! It does help, but it's not that effective, and can't bring in line clearly OP ships because they will always be worth the investment. A combination of High Maintenance hullmod and high supplies per day on the other hand are way more efficient, because this ship drain your resources all the time and you must be sure to be able to afford it's usage, not just the initial cost.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 22, 2015, 01:16:11 AM
I am not saying that they need to be perfectly in-line with other ships, but simply have a downside to counteract their prowess in combat. Being a resource drain like a Hyperion would do it, but this is simply my opinion :)


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: WKOB on February 22, 2015, 01:18:11 AM
Fair enough points, that's basically what I was looking for to sate my own curiosity.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Tartiflette on February 22, 2015, 02:07:19 AM
Glad to be of service  ;)
Quote
[10:16:33] MesoTroniK: what a spontaneous argument in the JP thread
[10:16:58] Tartiflette: It's not an argument, it's an exchange of opinion
[10:17:04] Tartiflette: no name calling involved
[10:17:34] MesoTroniK: I consider this an argument, it is staying on track
[10:18:02] Tartiflette: I don't know, it's too civil to be called an internet argument ^^
First time in internet history an argument doesn't degenerate!


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Ahne on February 22, 2015, 02:43:27 AM
Quote
From someone that keeps bugging modders to update their mods all the time without the slightest idea of the work it represent, I find this subtle taste of arrogance disturbing.

You call me bugging someone and that i don't appreciate their hard work?

You really should read more of my replies and messages to the modders section, i have often told the modders and Alex and all the guys who deliver content for the game that i really appreciate and enjoy their work.

Stop that lying immediately or i lose all respect to you.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on February 22, 2015, 06:32:29 AM
I love the mod as always mendonca, but a couple of preliminary thoughts and observations regarding this update.

You forgot to add the maps for the new skins to the texture_data.csv, and those ships are really powerful with no real downsides. In my opinion you should give them the High Maintenance hullmod, increase their FP cost, and perhaps add a custom hullmod that increases supplies/day. The increased credit cost of them just is not enough to justify the rather large increase of power that those ships wield.


On the statement: 'Those ships are really powerful ..." is that true? As in, have you actually played with one? Is this specific or is this based on viewing the skin files and making some assumptions? REALLY powerful, or just, a bit powerful?

I'm not trying to be irritating or inflammatory, I just don't necessarily think they (all) are, and it is also a genuine question.

They also do have an increased FP cost (marginal in most cases, this could be looked at).

In simple terms the rationale was indeed to add 'high-end' ships, with no downsides.

The intent was to give a range of ships going from 'PACK Baseline' (which is pretty trash) to a little bit better - through core epoch and up to expansion levels of performance (the Canebianco ships probably do this - are they too good? I don't truly know, I tend to avoid playing with the Tempest et. al).

Fixed hullmods means that in some cases - the customisation has already been done - is this a valid balancing point? A hardened shield Canebianco ship can't be hardened again.

On reflection, I'm thinking a high maintenance type of hullmod would not harm these ships (especially the Canebianco ships), but (whether this is good or bad) I do think it might tip them back below the line where you would want them in your fleet as opposed to a vanilla expansion vessel, for instance.

Would love some specific ship-by-ship feedback, if any has some to give me :)


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Nanao-kun on February 22, 2015, 07:45:21 AM
I will honestly admit that even with this mod installed, I never really bothered with the ships that much. But then I saw "rare ships" and ended up wanting to fly some. :-X


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Dark.Revenant on February 22, 2015, 12:01:19 PM
I love the mod as always mendonca, but a couple of preliminary thoughts and observations regarding this update.

You forgot to add the maps for the new skins to the texture_data.csv, and those ships are really powerful with no real downsides. In my opinion you should give them the High Maintenance hullmod, increase their FP cost, and perhaps add a custom hullmod that increases supplies/day. The increased credit cost of them just is not enough to justify the rather large increase of power that those ships wield.


On the statement: 'Those ships are really powerful ..." is that true? As in, have you actually played with one? Is this specific or is this based on viewing the skin files and making some assumptions? REALLY powerful, or just, a bit powerful?

I'm not trying to be irritating or inflammatory, I just don't necessarily think they (all) are, and it is also a genuine question.

They also do have an increased FP cost (marginal in most cases, this could be looked at).

In simple terms the rationale was indeed to add 'high-end' ships, with no downsides.

The intent was to give a range of ships going from 'PACK Baseline' (which is pretty trash) to a little bit better - through core epoch and up to expansion levels of performance (the Canebianco ships probably do this - are they too good? I don't truly know, I tend to avoid playing with the Tempest et. al).

Fixed hullmods means that in some cases - the customisation has already been done - is this a valid balancing point? A hardened shield Canebianco ship can't be hardened again.

On reflection, I'm thinking a high maintenance type of hullmod would not harm these ships (especially the Canebianco ships), but (whether this is good or bad) I do think it might tip them back below the line where you would want them in your fleet as opposed to a vanilla expansion vessel, for instance.

Would love some specific ship-by-ship feedback, if any has some to give me :)

They're better with virtually no drawbacks.  Some of the CB versions have a huge increase in OP and a large chunk of effective OP gained from those hull mods, and the SA and RH versions are no pushovers either.  I suggest introducing a built-in hullmod for each of the skin types (CA, RH, CB) that penalizes logistics rating in an increasing manner.  The CA hullmod would probably just increase supplies/day by 25%.  RH would increase by 35%, and CB would increase by 50%.


Title: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on February 23, 2015, 01:43:42 PM
Okey dokey, that was a quick retreat. Thanks for all the feedback, in case it's not clear it is all thoroughly appreciated.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates236.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates236.zip)

Junk Pirates 2.3.6
- PACK Skins now all 'High Maintenance' - or rather 'Overclocked'. Caomarelo ships work at 15% flat supply usage even when at max CR, Rothund at 20%, Canebianco at 30% plus 10% penalty to CR timer.
- Added shader / texture data for PACK skins (retain normals / materials of original hulls - let me know if this is jarring but hopefully shouldn't be too much of a difference between the skins / hulls).
- Dropped a bit of range off the ripsaw down to 650, as even with a slight bump in Flux usage it is a bit relentless with infinite ammo.

Any more thoughts greatly appreciated :)


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: HeartofDiscord on February 24, 2015, 06:01:06 PM
Okey dokey, that was a quick retreat. Thanks for all the feedback, in case it's not clear it is all thoroughly appreciated.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates236.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates236.zip)

Junk Pirates 2.3.6
- PACK Skins now all 'High Maintenance' - or rather 'Overclocked'. Caomarelo ships work at 15% flat supply usage even when at max CR, Rothund at 20%, Canebianco at 30% plus 10% penalty to CR timer.
- Added shader / texture data for PACK skins (retain normals / materials of original hulls - let me know if this is jarring but hopefully shouldn't be too much of a difference between the skins / hulls).
- Dropped a bit of range off the ripsaw down to 650, as even with a slight bump in Flux usage it is a bit relentless with infinite ammo.

Any more thoughts greatly appreciated :)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think DR just meant supplies per day, not actual high maintenance.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on February 25, 2015, 01:10:49 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think DR just meant supplies per day, not actual high maintenance.
No need to correct you, I'm pretty sure that was what D.R meant.

I've gone for something closer to MesoTronik's suggestion, and changed it slightly just to be difficult.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on March 15, 2015, 11:28:58 AM
These guys have been around longer than I have been playing StarSector, so I guess it's time to finally give them a try.  Here's my first bit of feedback.  In the description of Lincoln, it says, "Offloading ship captains are met by a Hegemony logistics officers".  Either the "a" in "a Hegemony" or the "s" in "officers" is unnecessary.  (I'm not just a grammar Nazi, I'm a grammar HYDRA agent.)


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on March 15, 2015, 02:48:54 PM
These guys have been around longer than I have been playing StarSector, so I guess it's time to finally give them a try.  Here's my first bit of feedback.  In the description of Lincoln, it says, "Offloading ship captains are met by a Hegemony logistics officers".  Either the "a" in "a Hegemony" or the "s" in "officers" is unnecessary.  (I'm not just a grammar Nazi, I'm a grammar HYDRA agent.)

That's a vanilla typo (Lincoln borrows the vanilla descriptions), but good spot nevertheless.

Hope you have fun with the mod!


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on March 22, 2015, 08:43:11 AM
Okay, found the first bug.  In several of the missions, some of the ships have loadouts that are over the OP limit.  In Looking For Trouble the flagship Hammerhead has 92 of 80 OP, in Hello Spaceboy the Dugong has 145 of 135 OP, and a few more like that, not that this is the only mod I've ever seen with that problem.

I've been able to find half of the P.A.C.K. ships and the Junk Pirate ships are easy to find, but almost no luck finding any ASP ships.  Since they don't have a military market, as far as I can tell the only place to get them is Ursulo's black market, but that's much more likely to have vanilla ships.  The only ASP ship I've ever had is a single Copperhead that I was lucky enough to find at Ursulo.  I figured maybe I was intended to pirate them since their fluff says they aren't really interested in fighting, but I never see ASP ships in ASP fleets.  All the ASP fleets I ever see are made up of 99% vanilla ships with maybe a wing of ASP fighters or two, but that doesn't matter because you can never board and capture fighters from combat.

Once I get a chance to play with all of them I'll give you some ship-by-ship feedback.  If I understand the fluff right the Junk Pirates are supposed to be vaguely vanilla balanced and the ASP and P.A.C.K. are supposed to be less powerful than vanilla because they're modified civilian or noncombat models, correct?


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Nanao-kun on March 22, 2015, 11:21:34 AM
The over OP limit probably stems from the assumption of 10 Tech.

I also noticed that ASP ships tend to be a bit hard to find, but in my case, I just never find a Gigantophis. I found Copperheads every now and then.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on March 22, 2015, 12:33:48 PM
The over OP thing is just a failure in mental arithmetic on my part, or lack of proper checking. I did try and fix all cases recently, obviously missed a couple of variants. I'll see if I can clean that up.

On the 'Looking for Trouble' flagship - that's a hangover from the time when the Hammerhead had two rear medium energy turrets - this variant for this mission has kept them (in order to maintain the cutlasses). I feel like it would be a shame to fix it, for whatever reason.

I'll probably have a play about with ASP ship frequencies, I kind of agree fleet makeup should be a little more ASP-centric (if only because what's the point otherwise), and that should bring a few more ASP ships out in to the market. I normally get a Diamondback or two for the fleet pretty easily, if I'm running frigates and looking for a bit more space.

Balance-wise - the intent is pretty much as you say. ASP are meant to be very good ships - just not particularly combat focused. Normal PACK ships are sort of pretty good - but have low OPs and lightweight hulls - with the best probably starting to approach midline, overall, in performance (but the specialist skins e.g. Canebianco type variants maybe as good as TriTach). Junk Pirates are balanced against midline.

Look forward to the feedback, really interested to know what you think :)


Title: A ruthless terrorist organization determined to rule the world
Post by: Network Pesci on April 02, 2015, 06:47:12 PM
My current campaign is at level 43 and I've been playing almost entirely with a frigate swarm composed at least half of your ships.  Still working on the Pokemon achievement and I have hardly played the missions at all.  I have commentary written for a majority of the frigates and some of the larger ships, but I'll wait to post until I have something written for the entire factions if possible.  This campaign I've been friendly with the Hegemony so I haven't been able to get good rep with the Junk Pirates to buy most of their bigger ships, but I'm about to start over and try to base myself somewhere besides Asharu.  I don't even know what fraction of the PACK ships I've got because I don't know if every ship comes in every variant.  I will say that I've enjoyed the PACK deserter bounties, they're a nice change to fight and well in range of vanilla balance.  I notice that your factions produce a lot more bounties than most people's mods because you have so many factions.

I have done as much as I feel able to on ASP, if I get any more ASP ships it will be pure luck, so I'll go ahead and post that.


The Diamondback is a great part of a fast frigate swarm.  With a Tactical Laser on the front it can easily harass most slower ships while staying out of range, particularly the (D) variants you see in pirate fleets.  It's not going to win any awards for DPS, but it's great at staying alive with an AI pilot and keeping less expendable chunks of the enemy's fleet occupied while combat ships do the real work.  Against an enemy with extraordinary firepower or extreme speed the Diamondback shows that it's not suited for a military role, but it's a great small fast cargo boat with good burn speed and economical deployment.  Pricey, but in the early game I got my money's worth out of both the bounties they had my back on and the shortages they helped me take advantage of.

Copperhead is a decently armed medium carrier that's much better at defense than offense.  It has a fairly stringent OP limit which reminds me of the normal PACK ships, so it can't fit much in the way of hullmods.  Its shield is fairly good, if narrow, but this ship shouldn't be on the front lines anyway, it should be back at a Rally Carrier waypoint and the only thing targeting it should be Pilums, which it has no trouble dealing with.  I say, "should be", because the Copperhead is called a "combat carrier", but it really wants to focus on "combat" over "carrier".  If I don't directly order it to a Rally Carrier waypoint it prefers to be on the front lines, which gets it killed pronto since it can't deal with being surrounded by anything tougher than Talons.

I have NEVER seen the Gigantophis, either for sale or in an ASP fleet, so I can't really evaluate it.  It's up to you whether you want to give ASP a military market, and I understand if you don't since they're not really a "military", but if you don't, many people who play your mod might never see all of your ships.

The Constrictor is a fairly slow but well-armed fighter.  It claims to be a Support fighter/bomber, but I found it better as a defensive escort for a large slow ship that it has no trouble keeping up with.  With twice the Sabots as a Longbow (which I haven't seen in several StarSector versions, I guess Alex took them out of the game), they could theoretically work a support role, but what they really excel at is being a distraction that whatever's attacking your carrier or capital ship just HAS to deal with RIGHT NOW, or else get overloaded and be useless.

In 43 levels, I have never seen the Venom or the Bite for sale, so I haven't been able to see how they fight on my side.  I've fought ASP fleets a couple of times and killed a few of these fighters and they didn't seem imbalanced at all, but without deploying them in a few battles I can't really say for sure.  If I get my hands on them or the Gigantophis I'll post more about these guys.  I really have no idea what a true battle against ASP is like, because their fleets are not (as you say) ASP-centric.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Nanao-kun on April 02, 2015, 06:59:11 PM
I for one, love the Schnauzer (CA). The two energy points at the front of the original didn't really appeal to me, but the missile points did.

Sure, it'll blow up with a small tap, but it's quite fun to fly and I like how it looks.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on April 02, 2015, 08:10:36 PM
The Bedlington (CB) has a space at the beginning of its name causing it to show up at the top of the Codex which I assume is a typo.  It also has an astonishing speed which surpasses any vanilla frigate and insane flux dissipation better than some destroyers!  As well as being a great pursuit and harassment ship, its flux dissipation makes a perfect platform to mount whichever crazy mod Medium Energy weapons I want to test in battle.  Between its efficient shield and its awesome agility, the Bedlington (CB) can trade fire with things like Enforcers and come out on top.  Its only real weakness is its fragility, but between the agility and the shield, I can usually avoid taking hits in this hot rod.

(I've got a LOT more commentary on the PACK ships but this is the only true "error" I've found in this mod.)


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on April 11, 2015, 02:52:44 AM
Junk Pirates 2.3.7 is up ...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates237.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates237.zip)

Changes;
- Fixed some typos and variant OP counts
- ASP fleet arrangement changed - more ASP specific ships should appear (by a significant margin - maybe the gigantophis will show up now ...)
- Added the Magpie, a JP Light-ish Cruiser
- PACK super-skins nerfed a bit - they are all more expensive to run and [CB] ships have a greater penalty to CR timer.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_magpie.png)


Title: That Man Is Playing Galaga
Post by: Network Pesci on April 12, 2015, 08:18:20 AM
I actually found a Gigantophis Friday night and threw away my 100 reputation with ASP to steal it from them, but then this new version came out so I started over.  I haven't played enough to give it a full review, but I did find that it gave me a lot harder fight than I thought.  The cloud of drones surrounding it makes it much tougher than it looks, particularly against the small maneuverable craft that I favor.

Here's what I wrote about PACK in the previous version.  If you've changed anything that I refer to, obviously ignore that.  I took out the bit about the Bedlington being cheaper to deploy than the fast high-tech frigates it competes with.

There's a new tactic in the StarSector universe with the latest patch.  With the humble Tactical Laser's boost in range and decrease in OP cost, it's now feasible for entire fleets, even frigate swarms, to all sport Tactical Lasers and outrange enemy ships while staying out of most weapons' reach.  The PACK (there's a trade disruption driving up the price of periods) is excellent at playing this new tactic, which I call the keep-away game.  Of course, harassment at long range is nothing new, but having my entire fleet except my flagship doing it constantly (rendering 90% of my enemies' weapons irrelevant) is.  This doesn't work against everything, as fleets with the speed to catch my ships or very long range firepower can beat mine, but I can consistently win against pirate, Hegemony, Lud, and Sindrian fleets if they don't have capital ships or a a Missile Specialization captain in a Harpoon Dominator.  Enemy fighters and frigates have absolutely no way to deal with this tactic and most larger ships go down quickly once surrounded.  It feels like I'm playing Galaga as the bad guys, particularly when I have Schnauzers all over the screen.

Like the bad guys in Galaga, the PACK frigates are really fragile and die easily. They have a decent shield ratio which can keep them from ever taking damage if used correctly.  Once I have maximum possible OP on my character, I like to put Hardened Shields on them to make their ratio amazing instead of pretty good, and possibly Extended or Forward Shields to give them better coverage.  Of course, the folks at Canebianco are ahead of me on that.  An overclocked PACK frigate with Hardened Shields can survive nearly anything if it just stays at long range and catches incoming fire on its shield.

Of course, it's still possible to play the conventional StarSector "Assault plus Support plus Strike" game or the "Hammer and Anvil" tactics that real-life armies have used for thousands of years.  That's what the PACK destroyers are for.


The Bedlington is an amazingly mobile ship that's as fragile as a cloud and as fast as the wind.  It has an acceptable weapon slot configuration with a blind spot that makes it feel more realistic.  The Bedlington's worst quality is its fairly harsh OP limit, which keeps it from being overpowered.  I imagine this was much worse before the Tactical Laser came out in its current form.  The Ion Drone makes this possibly the best pursuit craft in PACK, and gives it an extra edge against unshielded pirates.


The Wirefox is a super-sophisticated upgrade of the Hound, which is basically to the fully upgraded Hound what that Hound is to the character level 1 Hound.  It loses some cargo capacity, a ton of durability, and requires more crew but has much better flux capacity and weapon mounts.  I like that the bridge or superstructure or whatever that is blocks the rear energy mount, makes it feel more like a real ship with actual design flaws and not a sprite somebody created to play in a video game.

The Wirefox (CA) adds even more mobility and swaps the Wirefox's Missile mount for another Medium Ballistic mount.  This makes it a decent combat craft as it is practically a Ballistic Tempest.  Any combination of Heavy Needlers, HVDs, and Heavy Maulers allows this tiny craft to punch above its weight, although it can take much less than it can dish out.


Schnauzer is easily my most-used if not my absolute favorite PACK frigate to pilot.  This is my ship of the line, my basic trooper, and they're expendable enough that I don't mind losing them, not that I lose a lot of them as long as I pick my battles.  If no other ship made it to vanilla, I wish the Schnauzer would.  It feels like an outdated but functional military craft, a Z-95 in a world of X-Wings and TIE fighters, a technical in a world of Bradleys and Hummers.  It's fairly agile and the Manuevering Jets make it even more so, enabling it to keep up with Tri-Tach frigates and run circles around everything else.  I put either a Light Needler or a Railgun on the ones I will have the AI pilot and fill the other slots with Tactical Lasers.  If I intend to pilot a regular Schnauzer I will put a IR Pulse Laser or Antimatter Blaster on one mount to give it some up-close punch, but I usually pilot my starter Wolf or one of the more expensive upgraded PACK frigates.

Schnauzer (CA):  Caomarelo makes the extremely mobile Schnauzer even more so, and relaxes the OP limit a bit allowing me to cram a lot more toys into this chassis.  Trading the frontal energy mounts for missiles, this craft doesn't play the keep-away game as well, but it's fast enough to get in range, launch some missiles, and get out before the enemy even has his turrets pointed at it.

Schnauzer (RH):  This is my least favorite custom variant in PACK.  While making a fast fragile craft less fragile seems like a good idea, the cost to maneuverability and speed is too great.  It's not like the extra armor makes a difference, it's made of name brand tissue paper instead of store brand.  Player-piloted and fitted with two Antimatter Blasters on the front energy slots this craft is a decent strike craft but unlike the other variants, it doesn't really excel at anything.


The Samoyed doesn't do well in frigate battles because it's neither durable nor agile, but makes a decent strike craft and has the maneuverability to harass slower ships such as destroyers.  It has decent weapon coverage if not the generous slot layout of the other frigates, but then, it's a freighter, it's not even really supposed to be in combat at all.  I could make a tolerable support/harassment craft out of it, but there's loads of other ships in PACK that can fill that role better.  Removing its cargo capacity to make the Samoyed (Base) makes it a decent strike craft, but not a great one.  However, the added speed and OP of the Base (CA) variant edges it into being an excellent missile boat that is as good at that role or better than any vanilla frigate.  It doesn't quite match the Buffalo II's sheer firepower but it's much more survivable and mobile.


Komondor is decently tough although slow and potentially carries a ton of firepower.  Like many PACK ships it suffers from a lack of OP, but once you get max OP from skills it has a few decent loadouts.  Its greatest weakness is the huge blind spot directly behind it, where no PD can reach.  As long as I keep it pointed at the enemy, it does fine.  I particularly like to put four Railguns in the front slots on Alternating fire, this produces an appealing "minigun" effect.  I've used a couple of loadouts that can easily go toe-to-toe with Eagles and Enforcers as long as I manage my flux carefully.

Shar-Pei is extremely fragile but extremely mobile.  It can phase skip roughly every two seconds, dependent on flux.  It absolutely requires tougher ships such as the Pitbull to hide behind because the Shar-Pei has no ability whatsoever to deal with any kind of homing missile.   It CAN be kitted out for PD, but then it can't do much of anything else.  Its fairly stringent OP limit doesn't really allow it to mount much armament even with maximum possible OP from Combat and Tech skills at 10. Also, most shieldless ships let you "cheat" a little by putting shields on them anyway, but the OP limit practically prevents that too.  This ship does well at the keep-away game as long as there's plenty of other targets on the field but falls apart if pressured for even a few seconds.  There's two roles I've found for the Shar-Pei, either as a strike craft that stays away from the battle until it's needed and then gets there quick and unloads all its firepower in a few devastating seconds, or as a harasser that uses very long-range weapons to play the keep-away game from even farther away than most ships.  Unfortunately the AI seems to not really be able to handle this craft at all, it doesn't pick targets well and doesn't know how fragile it is, nor does it understand that it can avoid almost any collision with a friendly with a trivial expenditure of flux.  More than its fragility or its limited loadout, the fact that this ship HAS to be piloted by the player cripples it.  If I could tell this ship, "engage at will, but never from closer than 1200" and "always drop everything to hide behind a tougher ship if a missile is launched at you" it could be a valuable part of my fleet, but unfortunately until the vanilla AI is upgraded, the Shar-Pei is just a novelty.


Still working on getting that Pokemon Acheivement.  If I didn't mention a ship, I haven't played with it enough yet, but I intend to do them all.  Could you tell me if all the PACK frigates have a variant for each company?  Am I supposed to be looking for CA, CB, and RH versions of each ship?  Every time I get a decent collection of Junk Pirates ships, something happens to get me to restart my campaign such as an unavoidable trade screen crash, but I'm going to manage it sooner or later.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Azmond on April 12, 2015, 08:31:42 AM
Pesic, your reviews are great to read. xD Make a video man!


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on April 12, 2015, 10:59:29 AM
Yeah, lovely read :)

Nice to see you say that about the Schnauzer, a very nice compliment indeed! (I've got a soft spot for it, probably amplified by the feeling of [terror / hubris / anger / humour?] I get every time one of them explodes from just a singular badly dodged harpoon)

We don't have yeller, red and white versions of everything just yet - and I don't think we ever will (but I do intend to implement a few more once I make the time to sit down and have a think about it).

Sounds like you've got (or mentioned) every frigate that's currently available. The Schnauzer is the only ship that actually has a skin from each machine-shop, Komondor and Pitbull both have Red/White, BRT has Red (maybe yellow? I'd have to check ) ... They are still scratching their heads about how the Shar Pei works, so haven't got anywhere with that ... The Mastiff and Ridgeback are untouched, and the Ridgeback X has been given the once over by just the Rothund guys. So not too many at present, but hopefully enough that it adds a bit of interest.

e: checked ... Schnauzer does not have [CB], and BRT does not have [CA] ... (yet) my mistake :)


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: cardgame on April 12, 2015, 02:45:18 PM
So I haven't played this since 0.54 or so, are the PACK still disappointingly underpowered?


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: HELMUT on April 12, 2015, 03:10:39 PM
They are weak individually, making early game a chore. The fun start when you can field several of them, as the name of the faction suggest it.

Haven't played enough of them to tell what kind of tactic to use but Network Pesci's idea of long range Schnauzer spam sounds good. Add a few Bedlington for the always useful ion drones and you should be able to hunt on fleets with big ships. Neutrinos in particular would be easy preys for PACK swarms.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on April 13, 2015, 05:37:29 AM
Yeah, what HELMUT said.

Really, it's probably not that much fun to field e.g. any lone PACK ship at all, unless you are very patient and / or a masochist.

The highly combat-capable [CB] type ships are very strong, but typically you won't be carrying enough logistics support to have fun with them on their own - so make sure they have logistic support.

If you wanted an early stage fleet that can punch above it's weight, picking from the basic skins - the Wirefox is an excellent 'kiter' against most fleets, but you'll probably need a couple of Samoyed (Base) to bring in more firepower / distractions to be able to reliably take on any kind of fleet above one or two ships (and even then, it's very sensitive to mistakes). The Caomarelo Samoyed (Base) are ridiculously quick, and eminently survivable - in the AI hands - and are a reasonably cheap effective combat option (but will have a constant supply drain due to being overclocked).

If you want to move up a level, try a Pitbull, but you WILL want a couple of escorting Schnauzers (or Bedlingtons?) to back you up, as the Pitbull is very slow but can slaughter things once it gets the Ripsaw in range (assuming you don't get flanked ...). The Pitbull is a bit more forgiving (it has decent armor), and has huge potential forward firepower just due to the four front facing missile hardpoints - Jets make it maneuverable in a pinch, but positioning overall is important as without the Jets they are pretty lethargic. The Pitbull [CB] may make you feel invulnerable due to hardened 360 shields ... I've found that not to be the case - but it can do (and take) a lot of damage over the course of a battle.

For more 'fun' - try piloting the Shar-Pei. This one definitely needs protection from flanking AND probably escort PD, and I guess was balanced against the inferior Missile AI of a few versions ago - so probably sucks more than it should - but can be rewarding to play and requires skill to use effectively (probably not really that suitable for AI, unless you want to send a bunch of crew to an early space-grave).

You're supposed to mix craft up, really, due to the relative strengths of the ships. I've found lot's of mixes of craft work - but sticking to one type can often be a recipe for disaster (I find that without a sufficient mix of craft types - you can go from hero to zero very quickly, particularly when you come against a problem fleet, and larger craft need particular care whilst fielding a PACK fleet - try Pitbulls or [CA] Schnauzers to bring the Reapers).


Title: That's no moon!
Post by: Network Pesci on April 18, 2015, 05:28:34 PM
Really, it's probably not that much fun to field e.g. any lone PACK ship at all, unless you are very patient and / or a masochist.

I've already talked some about the Komondor, but haven't discussed the variants.  The unmodded version suffers from the PACK lack of OP but not enough to make it unusable.  The RH variant gives up a couple of weapon slots but has the usual built-in Rothund hullmod set which relaxes its OP limit quite a bit and makes it at least as good as the vanilla Enforcer, possibly better.  However, I cannot possibly give enough praise to the AMAZING Canebianco variant, which can not only pull off the "Gatling Railgun" build that I mentioned before, but also keeps all its weapon slots and saves me a ton of OP by building in mods that I'd choose anyway.  The 360-degree shield means that it can survive being surrounded for five seconds, which is three more than it needs to kill any vanilla frigate.  With a level 45 (10 Combat, 5 Leadership, 10 Technology) character at the helm, one single Komondor-CB can kill any amount of trash (D)-class pirates or five to ten times its OP cost in real ships.  It's not quite as ruinous for a low-level character as an Afflictor, Tempest, or Hyperion, but it's nearly as good as a Medusa whether I'm level 5 or 45.

(http://i.imgur.com/8bAYmLd.jpg)

This is my preferred build once I can afford all the added OP skills and Optimized Assembly.  It's nothing complicated, the Vulcans provide a decent amount of PD particularly when this surprisingly-maneuverable ship kites laterally away from oncoming missiles.  I've even had them destroy an entire Dominator (D)'s suicide Harpoon barrage before, a move which utterly ruins every other PACK ship I've piloted.  The Tac Lasers serve a few purposes, not only destroying fighters at long range but also giving larger enemies a reason to keep their shields up.  The Railguns are in their own weapon group set to alternating fire, the Heavy Mauler is in its own group and set to automatic fire.  Even without the accelerated ammo feeder, this provides a withering kinetic barrage that nothing short of an Onslaught or Paragon can withstand for long, but with the AAF, it puts out infinity bullets per second (and damn near infinity flux too).  It's almost a shame that the Affenpinscher and Ripsaw are so terribly overshadowed by this ultra-minigun, which I'm nearly certain you didn't allow for intentionally, since ballistics weren't infinite when the PACK technicians invented the KCB.  Kudos on creating a ship which makes the AAF not only useful (which IMO vanilla doesn't manage) but godly.

(http://i.imgur.com/lQsox0Y.jpg)

Now I've said before that the PACK can't really handle Tri-Tach ships, but the KCB is an exception.  Here's one of my proudest PACK victories, soloing a Tri-Tach deserter bounty, easily handling two Auroras.  I also have beat a twin Dominator named bounty solo, even with both of them loaded with Harpoons, although I don't think it was a Missile Specialization captain.

(http://i.imgur.com/wjPUGS2.gif)

I want to revist a couple of ships I had a poor opinion of before I got some more experience.  In the endgame, the Schnauzer (RH) makes a good player-controlled pursuit ship for heavy pursuits.  When I'm chasing two wounded Enforcers and a handful of Condors and Tarsuses, it is just the right mixture of speed and firepower to make sure nothing bigger than a Hound gets away.  Also, the Samoyed Base (CA) is really good at getting into combat with its speed and hullmod, but not so good at surviving once it's there.  If I know I'm going up against an Onslaught or Conquest, I will bring a few SB(CA)s along loaded with Reapers and not deploy them until seconds before I need them.  They can't survive in a protracted battle, but they're REALLY good at getting to where they need to be and dumping their payload.

Earlier I talked about how great the generator on the Bedlington (CB) was, but I come to realize that the basic Schnauzer is even better, no wonder their shields feel so powerful.  Offensively they don't have any Medium slot to take full advantage of that flux generation, and trying to put Light Excimers or IR Pulse Lasers on them makes them fight at close range which makes their fragility an issue if not piloted by the player.

I am one single ship away from getting the PACK Pokemon achievement, I lack only the unmodified Ridgeback-X.  Once I do I'll post thoughts on the other ships.


Some minor gripes:

This modpack's star systems being so far apart from each other slows down the game a bit and makes supply and especially fuel costs much higher.  The "Overclocked" penalty is peanuts compared to doubling my fuel costs on half the bounties.  Before I played this modpack, I felt like it was a "long trip" to make when I'd be fighting pirates in Eos and hear about a TriTach deserter in Valhalla.  Now if I kill a bounty in Canis and I see one pop up in Breh'inni, it may not be worth it to make the trip.

Paddington has an "Orbital Burns" market condition which is at odds with the other conditions which describe it as mostly desert with dense urban pockets and little farming. 

Bedlington and Hammer need their shield radius increased a little so their weapons don't stick through the shield.  The vanilla Hound is the same way but is getting fixed in the next version.

About every three days in modpack systems which have either PACK or JP stations I'm spammed with a pair of messages about secure comms access being granted/revoked by PACK and Junk Pirates even if I haven't done anything to change my standing with either faction.

I STILL haven't gotten a Gigantophis without pirating one.  I'm level 46 now in a different campaign than the last time I griped about this.  I have kept count, I have sacrificed over 1.5 million credits to the RNG gods buying all the frigates and freighters out of Paddington's black market and scuttling them, and I have yet to ever see a Gigantophis for sale.  I'm still working on getting Venoms but I've seen and purchased two wings each of Constrictors and Bites.


Title: Re: That's no moon!
Post by: Nanao-kun on April 18, 2015, 07:15:55 PM
I STILL haven't gotten a Gigantophis without pirating one.  I'm level 46 now in a different campaign than the last time I griped about this.  I have kept count, I have sacrificed over 1.5 million credits to the RNG gods buying all the frigates and freighters out of Paddington's black market and scuttling them, and I have yet to ever see a Gigantophis for sale.  I'm still working on getting Venoms but I've seen and purchased two wings each of Constrictors and Bites.
The RNG gods must hate you, considering I've found several in my last playthrough. :P


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Histidine on May 04, 2015, 04:06:13 AM
It might be a Nexerelin bug (though I don't see how), but I'm getting spammed (once a day) with paired "P.A.C.K. secure comm access granted" "Junk Pirates secure access comm revoked" messages while in any system with a PACK market. I think I've seen the inverse while friendly to Junk Pirates and hostile to PACK, too.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on May 04, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I got that same bug playing only this modpack on top of vanilla, no Nexerelin or SS+ or other mods.  Oddly, after a couple of years in-game, it stopped.  I'm still on this same campaign and it's not doing it anymore.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: HELMUT on September 11, 2015, 09:40:23 AM
So i played a pirate Nexerelin campaign. I ended up with the Junk Pirates as my only allies and as such, managed to grab a bunch of their ships during the campaign. I liked quite a bit the Boxer and Turbot, one of the few phase ships able to mount a typhoon launcher.

Unfortunately the Templars took over the sector during the early game so i couldn't experiment a more "traditional" fleet as i would get hacked to pieces against them. So i had to find another strategy.

If no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the H-team (http://musicpleer.net/#1ebd9764e8cd1891b225494b643ab303).

(http://i.imgur.com/5w7ovjV.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/TgkRdjI.jpg?1)

(http://i.imgur.com/KrkFX1c.png?1)

So yeah, two medium missiles on a frigate with a deployment cost of 5 will eventually break the game. Oh, and it also have fast missile rack, in case there weren't enough missiles.

Personally i think switching one of the medium mount for two or three small ones would help avoiding the gross lrm spam. Of course, you'd still be able to launch a ludcrious amount of lrms across the map but it'll be roughly on par with the Vigilance.

Edit: I also noticed that some variants still have the expanded ammo magazine hull mod even though ballistic weapons don't require ammo anymore (all variants of the Scythe, close support Clam, support Kraken and standard The Reaper). I guess that's how one can recognize an old mod, eh?


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on September 11, 2015, 10:16:21 AM
Ha ha ha!

And yeah, it does need changing, I accept that (just never wanted to do anything about it :))

Next SS version, next update, it's makeover time.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: kruqnut on November 29, 2015, 04:08:53 PM
update time! lol


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.7 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on November 30, 2015, 12:28:10 AM
It's happening, slowly :)

Factions have been updated, just about got through updating the Breh'Inni system, still need to work through Canis and Ursulo (York is being canned). Then pass through the various variants, add normal maps etc. for the new ships / graphics, a bit of playtesting and should be good to go.

Still at least a week or two before I'll be able to push anything out, but it's progressing ...


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on December 06, 2015, 02:37:20 PM
Let's give this a go. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_240.zip)

Feedback most definitely welcome, please let me know how the normals look on the updated / new ships. I can't test them properly on this machine, and can't get crazybump to work on Linux.

Key Items for Changelist:

- Hammer nerfed. Boo.
- Weapon sprites updated for Light Excimer and Scatter Pd.
- Jackdaw cruiser added to JP (Dugong's brother)
- Orcenstein cruiser added to JP (Dominator-esque)
- Boxenstein (blue) given SO and a slight drop in OP. Frightening.
- Labrador added to the PACK fleet. Utility ship with advanced sensors.
- Balance update to 0.7.1a.
- Content update to 0.7.1a.
- Irritating PACK / JP comms channel issue finally resolved (both factions had a common reference in .faction files)
- Probably lots of other things

Enjoy, and please do feed back, including the littlest issues, I've not had as much time to playtest as I might have liked, but getting this out there now so at least it happens prior to Christmas.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: JohnDoe on December 06, 2015, 04:26:02 PM
Thanks for the update!


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Surge on December 07, 2015, 05:02:16 PM
Are there any plans to bring some of the Junk Pirate ships within kill-able levels? The Boxenstein and Clam are the most heinous offenders I've seen firsthand, with the Boxenstein having more armor than some destroyers have hull points, and the clam having a shield that shames most destroyers, I get that this is supposed to come at the expense of firepower but they're just so obnoxious to fight, especially when a mod like II gives them infinite HE LRMs in the form of ballista racks.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on December 07, 2015, 05:38:36 PM
including the littlest issues

The Test mission has its tactical briefing copied over from the Hello Spaceboy mission and refers to a ship that doesn't appear in the Test mission.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on December 08, 2015, 12:29:58 AM
including the littlest issues

The Test mission has its tactical briefing copied over from the Hello Spaceboy mission and refers to a ship that doesn't appear in the Test mission.

Okay, funny I thought this was working okay for 0.7, will check and update.

Are there any plans to bring some of the Junk Pirate ships within kill-able levels? The Boxenstein and Clam are the most heinous offenders I've seen firsthand, with the Boxenstein having more armor than some destroyers have hull points, and the clam having a shield that shames most destroyers, I get that this is supposed to come at the expense of firepower but they're just so obnoxious to fight, especially when a mod like II gives them infinite HE LRMs in the form of ballista racks.

Good point and worth a look. My general view (pre 0.7) was that both ships are eminently killable, might need a check though with the updated AI and possibility of officer buffs. It's difficult to balance vs. all mods, but I can at least try.

Clams are an annoyance, but easily countered by e.g. a Lasher with LMGs sat right in their face. They are not so easy in a fleet encounter if you can't pin them down (which is sort of the point, but shouldn't be too frustrating).

The Boxenstein needs a good dose of HE to break the armour, and are vulnerable due to their lack of agility. Possible though that with officers and better AI that these are also a lot more frustrating to counter than they perhaps were (unlike, say, the Dominator - their jets allow them SOME mobility during a battle, so aren't necessarily hard-countered by e.g. ion cannons or EMP).

Will look at a combination of further reduced mobility, shield performance (perhaps a 'fortress-shield-lite' for the Clam) - and reduced armour for the Boxenstein. Let me know if you have any further specific thoughts.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Surge on December 08, 2015, 09:23:58 AM
including the littlest issues

The Test mission has its tactical briefing copied over from the Hello Spaceboy mission and refers to a ship that doesn't appear in the Test mission.

Okay, funny I thought this was working okay for 0.7, will check and update.

Are there any plans to bring some of the Junk Pirate ships within kill-able levels? The Boxenstein and Clam are the most heinous offenders I've seen firsthand, with the Boxenstein having more armor than some destroyers have hull points, and the clam having a shield that shames most destroyers, I get that this is supposed to come at the expense of firepower but they're just so obnoxious to fight, especially when a mod like II gives them infinite HE LRMs in the form of ballista racks.

Good point and worth a look. My general view (pre 0.7) was that both ships are eminently killable, might need a check though with the updated AI and possibility of officer buffs. It's difficult to balance vs. all mods, but I can at least try.

Clams are an annoyance, but easily countered by e.g. a Lasher with LMGs sat right in their face. They are not so easy in a fleet encounter if you can't pin them down (which is sort of the point, but shouldn't be too frustrating).

The Boxenstein needs a good dose of HE to break the armour, and are vulnerable due to their lack of agility. Possible though that with officers and better AI that these are also a lot more frustrating to counter than they perhaps were (unlike, say, the Dominator - their jets allow them SOME mobility during a battle, so aren't necessarily hard-countered by e.g. ion cannons or EMP).

Will look at a combination of further reduced mobility, shield performance (perhaps a 'fortress-shield-lite' for the Clam) - and reduced armour for the Boxenstein. Let me know if you have any further specific thoughts.
Well I complain about the clam because I had one locked down in a 3v1 the other day and all 3 of my ships each overloaded 3-4 times (this actually cost me a wolf at a very precarious point in my playthrough as well) before the clam's flux started to get unmanageable, and the boxenstein because I've seen them tank so crazy amounts of damage back in 0.65 even once they get down to hull, and it makes them very frustrating bounty targets.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: HELMUT on December 08, 2015, 09:53:06 AM
Clams works like phase ships. They're infuriating to deal with but ultimately not decisive in the outcome of the battle, even in large numbers.

I also noticed the surprisingly heavy armor of the Boxer family, even tougher than some cruisers. The Boxenstein is more of a fire-support ship due to the weird missiles angle, while the normal Boxer is closer to the Enforcer in its role. Even though both of those have higher armor than any other destroyers, their hull strength isn't that great, they're also quite expensive to maintain and have less burn speed.

I'm not sure if they can be considered too strong. They're flying bullet sponges, very hard to take down without proper HE weaponry, but otherwise relatively inefficient... Maaaybe? I should try fielding a few of those to really see what they can do.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Surge on December 08, 2015, 10:54:50 AM
eh, I'd say the clam has about as much potential impact as the new hammer, sure it only has the one missile slot but it can also get a few autocannons or something.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on December 11, 2015, 08:59:58 PM
I found what I think is a bug.  The Breh'Inni Gate in hyperspace shows a gas giant and claims to be a one-way exit but the Breh'Inni gate in the system appears to be a normal hyperspace portal.  I only see a Breh'Inni star, not a gas giant, once I'm in normal space.

(http://i.imgur.com/W55BlIS.jpg)


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: StarSchulz on December 11, 2015, 10:29:06 PM
Yo! definitely liking this mod so far. is there any easy way to tell the tech level of the ships apart by looking at them? usually the colors for mastery core and expansion are easy to tell apart when you see it, but these ships are so crazy and unique that i can't usually tell until i am shooting at them!


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on December 12, 2015, 12:46:14 AM
@Network Pesci: Thanks! Will fix that up.

@StarSchulz: Hmm. I wonder what to say to that. Well, all the ships throughout the mod fall short of e.g. The Tempest / Medusa in overall power.

Closest to the Medusa is probably the Canebianco Pitbull, which falls down a little because it doesn't have the mobility. Most other PACK craft, however, are somewhere around the bottom end of the mid-tech ships in performance - with a similar mix of energy / ballistic mounts.

Junk Pirate ships are difficult to properly classify. There is a bit of colour coding going on between groups of ships - red for the goat / boxers signifies armour - blue signifies more higher tech for the langoustine and orca. Grey of the sickle / hammer are the grunts / cannon fodder. Energy / ballistics vary in no particular order based on what seemed appropriate at the time. Normally you should be able to get an idea of the ships role from the codex / descriptions.

ASP ships are all combat freighters - with the emphasis on freight - and some niche fighters.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: cpmartins on December 12, 2015, 09:11:07 AM
Found this guy on a P.A.C.K. base. The pirates are screwed now!
http://imgur.com/N2pOhtZ


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: StarSchulz on December 12, 2015, 11:11:07 AM
interesting, that should help when choosing to engage them. thanks!


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on December 12, 2015, 11:50:53 AM
Found this guy on a P.A.C.K. base. The pirates are screwed now!
http://imgur.com/N2pOhtZ

:)

Just be careful you don't get on the wrong side of Angela Lansbury ...


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: cpmartins on December 12, 2015, 12:23:17 PM
Pretty sure I've seen a station with a very efficient Security Officer. Quite the humble man he was.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: SpacePoliticianAndaZealot on December 18, 2015, 06:50:03 AM
Pitbull(CB) has negative peak performance time! Amazing!


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on December 19, 2015, 02:45:04 AM
Pitbull(CB) has negative peak performance time! Amazing!

Ha ha!

Oh dear ... I might try and change that ...


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 02, 2016, 05:08:17 PM
Pushing out a pretty lightweight update content-wise, to fix some of the errors spotted and also to make things a little nicer all round.

GET IT HERE (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_245.zip)

Also now should work with Nexerelin Corvus Mode.

Key Change Log:
- Nexerelin Corvus mode compatibility.
- Scripts now compiled in a JAR
- Strings updated, some completed and some changed to read better.
- Systems tweaked a bit to make e.g. rings look better, slow down jump point orbits and various other things as a result of playtesting.
- Canebianco Overclocked hullmod fixed.
- Civ Grade hullmods added to appropriate ships.
- 'Pre-militarized Hullform' added to various JP ships. Increased sensor profile due to bulky hullform (e.g. Orca, Boxenstein, Orcenstein)

As before, I thrive off pernickety comments and pedantic feedback. Hit me with the worst you've got.

Toodle-pip!


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: StarSchulz on January 02, 2016, 05:31:35 PM
Was literally about to ask if this was compatible with nexerelin. thanks!


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: SpacePoliticianAndaZealot on January 03, 2016, 01:53:17 AM
Have you ever danced with the Mastiff in pale moonlight?


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 03, 2016, 12:47:52 PM
Have you ever danced with the Mastiff in pale moonlight?

All I can think about is the very large barrelled revolver, and wonder what Freud would have to say about that.

And because we all need pseudo-contextual splash graphics with no real meaning:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates_v245_splash.png)


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Surge on January 11, 2016, 12:26:09 AM
So it turns out that a screen of 6 or 7 clams can throw up enough firepower to protect any much more dangerous ship from pursuit indefinitely because the clams themselves are functionally immune to damage and the sheer number of them prevents focusing fire properly.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: HELMUT on January 11, 2016, 02:09:11 PM
On the other hand, if 6 or 7 Clams couldn't cover a bigger ship, that would make them really, really crappy escorts. We're talking about the Monitor's cousins here, they're supposed to be very hard to kill.

I don't know what ship you were flying, but i know that Clams (or anything with fortress shields) tends to be allergic to rapid fire kinetic weapons, like MGs. The last patch nerf hit them hard.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: StarSchulz on January 11, 2016, 02:53:48 PM
Three or Four monitors could do the same!


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Surge on January 11, 2016, 09:02:24 PM
it was a fleet of mostly destroyers and frigates, which is why I couldn't just muscle past the clams, and they were protecting a few other frigates armed with kinetic standoff weapons so I needed to get through them. ultimately I was forced to withdraw because there just wasn't anyway to go through the clams, if I brought one near to an overload the others would close in and force me off until it vented.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 11, 2016, 11:20:26 PM
Three or Four monitors could do the same!

No, no they couldnt.  Clams have bigger needlers, more flux, and back up weapons.....a monitor has 2 small mounts and 2 flak cannons

Clams simply have to much dissapation and Elite NPC driven clams, suck.

Thumbs down on the current Clam stats.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: JohnDoe on January 11, 2016, 11:46:08 PM
There are ships that are difficult but interesting to fight against, but Clams are one of those things that are just plain annoyance. There are no strategies involved in beating it; the only purpose it serves is to waste the player's time.

At least there are Monitor variants that can be flanked.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 12, 2016, 12:19:21 AM
Thanks for all the feedback on the Clam, folks.

Was trying a few things last night and - whilst there are alternatives to achieving a similar thing (e.g. time-limited fortress shield, flux shunts and no fortress shield) I don't actually feel they do anything that's going to change the balance sufficiently unless I completely change the character of the ship - and in that case I may as well just get rid of it or call it something else.

Reducing flux characteristics slightly wouldn't harm, perhaps.

The Clam is supposed to be an escort - a valuable, hard-to-kill escort that can soak up fire and let off a few Pilums. It's not, in truth, supposed to appear in fleets in any great number - which I think is the main problem (due to the frigate line-up - they are one of the most common ships in the JP fleet).

Whilst they are live, in a fleet arrangement - they should be an annoyance. Whilst on their own - they should be easy to pick off. Both these are true (survivability is great, but mobility is dreadful). Arguably Clams are less frustrating to deal with than Phase Ships, and in some respects they behave more fairly - unless, I guess, they appear in significant numbers.

I think a better solution would be to keep the Clam pretty much as it is, greatly decrease the availability of the Clam (treat is as a high-performing Elite ship, like the monitor or Phase ships) and introduce a couple of other frigates to fill in different combat-oriented roles around the gap left.

Notably vanilla throws up some fleet combinations that are equally as infuriating without specific hard-counters - Herons with helmsmanship officers backed by a fighter force; Phase fleets; Monitors with the right officers - many others I'm sure - so I don't think it's worth overthinking the fact that they are annoying and I want to at least maintain some clear diversity in the ship roles.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Surge on January 12, 2016, 07:04:49 AM
I don't think you can do anything for the game throwing up exceptional numbers of clams but I would be totally in favor of a minor shield nerf and an availability nerf to it. As I've probably said before their shields soak up punishment that would have outright annihilated a destroyer before they give up the ghost and it's down to hull, and so they tend to bully AI ships around by merit of not giving a *** about incoming fire and are frustrating to run down in the closing stages of a battle because they just shrug off so much punishment. A shield arc nerf could work too, instead of a 360* shield a 300* shield or something to make them more palatable prey when you can actually manage to surround them.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: SpacePoliticianAndaZealot on January 12, 2016, 12:34:57 PM
I have always regarded the clam as the JP's trump card: it finely treads along the line from annoying to deadly, like Turbot.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Surge on January 12, 2016, 05:41:10 PM
Turbots *** me off slightly less than Clams actually, as phase ships they don't pump out constant fire while laughing at your feeble return fire, and their plague of drones isn't that hard to shut down once you can start really pushing in on them, but they're a pain in the ass to be rid of all the same.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: SpacePoliticianAndaZealot on January 17, 2016, 09:37:06 AM
A couple of quick questions:
  • Would you consider adding a ship retrofit/modification service a lá THI (and more recently, II) for converting PACK ships into their respective CA/CB/RH variants?
  • I know the Grapeshot is primarily an anti-fighter missile, but it's an awesome general purpose weapon for frigate-level combat (pressures shields surprisingly well). But what is it meant to do in larger-scale battles? Supplement PD weapons in fighter/frigate defence?

Also, nothing says "deceptively dangerous" better than the Pre-Militarized Hull hullmod - really neat work on that one ;D


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 17, 2016, 11:55:55 AM
  • Would you consider adding a ship retrofit/modification service a lá THI (and more recently, II) for converting PACK ships into their respective CA/CB/RH variants?

Yeah, definitely been considered, but implementation wouldn't happen any time soon (if at all). I don't think it falls outside the scope of the mod, at all, but it just comes down to priorities and working on the things that either a) I enjoy doing or b) the mod needs. Scripting of anything reasonably significant falls a little bit outside my comfort zone given the limited amount of head-space / free time I have for these things at the moment, and I think (hope) the mod copes okay without it. Of course I'll consider it more if I get more feedback asking for this sort of thing, though.

  • I know the Grapeshot is primarily an anti-fighter missile, but it's an awesome general purpose weapon for frigate-level combat (pressures shields surprisingly well). But what is it meant to do in larger-scale battles? Supplement PD weapons in fighter/frigate defence?

I'm going to level with you - I haven't planned things out to that level ;) - the implementation of the Grapeshot was basically due to reading about a similar real-life thing on Wikipedia (as fired out of tanks), thinking this was cool - and making the link that this sort of thing could work thematically with the Mod. Other than that, it's been some iteration over the years to what it is now (most recent heavy shift was just prior to SS+ integration, taking on some very constructive suggestions from DR about making the thing tend towards usefulness, and this is what it is today). Whether it works in any given situation is neither here nor there - it just is what it is :)

Honestly, I rarely get to the point of large scale battles so I can't even tell you how I use them ... (every time without fail; just prior to hitting that kind of level - I get pared down to a bare-bones fleet by some extraordinary over-estimation of my own ability). I'd love to hear feedback if you think they are great / rubbish though ... but I think I'd be happy if they didn't have a use in certain types of engagements (one of the goals for the weapon WAS to present the player with the 'DO I / DON'T I' issue, where they can be GREAT or IMPOTENT depending on who you are facing ...)


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: sarducardun on January 17, 2016, 12:25:48 PM
I happen to love grapeshot at all levels. On caps if you have a few free OP and limited missile slots I will often fit it because why not?

It is unlimited ammo and good dps for a recharging missile weapon even considering it is flak. If i have say two small missile slots on a cruiser salamanders seem useless as PD at that level won't care about 2 salamanders but Grapes can ignore that and still get some hits in, and it doesn't need to be aimed making it good for the less helpful slots. It isn't consistently effective but lucky hits vs fighters or exposed hull can be devastating. I even use large and mediums on occasion if my build doesn't require the slots for it's core purpose Grapes are a nice, cheap utility.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: SpacePoliticianAndaZealot on January 17, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
Thank you for the quick and earnest reply :)
I get you completely. It's not worth your free time if it doesn't affect you positively, no?
IMO, the current system works fine, too: if you can't find, say, a Canebianco Pitbull anywhere, it's okay. If you can and if you aquire it, then feel free to throw a topper and enjoy your fine new ship :)

I get the historical reference, too.
When I first installed the mod and saw the Grapeshot, I was like "Oh man, this has to be some entry-level joke! It looks unappealing, and it barely tickles my Wolf's shields!" A whole lot of playing later - turns out I totally fell for the "judging-by-the-cover" thing.

And don't worry, you're not the only one who likes to keep it small: My favourite playstyle is to roll around in a single finely-tuned frigate (big bonus if it's a Tempest/Hyperion)/destroyer/cruiser (even a battleship, but I do that in Nexerelin only, and only when I have Helmanship and Evasive Action maxed out. Even then, I'm still uncomfortable with piloting anything 'cept the good old Onslaught :D). Since it turned out to put pressure on shields surprisingly well (for me, at least), I'd pick Grapeshots over Sabots anytime. 'Nuff said, I hope :)

P.S. the larger Grape launchers have some untapped potential to them, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Will play around w/ them when I get to it, and get back to you.


Title: Re:[0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 23, 2016, 04:38:34 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_250_splash.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/Junk_Pirates_250.zip)

Content and polish pass. Appearance of Clams greatly reduced, and the remaining gap in the JP fleet has been filled with 3 new versatile fleet-players.

Feel free to feedback anything :)

- Clam frequency dropped like a stone.
- Satsuma-class destroyer added. Versatile JP Destroyer.
- Clementine-class frigate added. Versatile JP Frigate.
- Mandarine-class frigate added. Versatile JP Frigate.
- 13 new portraits, and Faction portrait usage amended generally to reflect and update.
- Supply usage of ships balanced.
- Military market added back to Glory, Karkov Academy changed to 'Military Base' (rather than active militia). Main aim is to make JP more 'viable' as a normal playstyle for 'Corvus-mode' nexerelin.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.4.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Taverius on January 23, 2016, 04:50:51 PM
I like that the Satsuma is 'inexplicably symmetrical' :3


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 24, 2016, 01:01:07 AM
I just edited the shield damage value... now they are still tough but not OMG i need to focus my whole fleet on one tough....i think i have it at 1.4. They may have stolen the tech for fortress shields, but they are supposed to be a low tech faction yeah? Monitors are Domain era tech.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on January 24, 2016, 05:44:29 AM
@grinningsphinx: I'm glad you are able to adjust things to suit your needs :)

The tech level is ... Current? ... like every other faction? Just limited by availability and other imaginary practical factors.

You aren't, by any chance, relying heavily on beams? I don't personally see the level of resilience you infer, and regularly lose my own Clams in evenly matched, low level engagements against non-elite groups.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: JohnDoe on January 24, 2016, 06:46:32 AM
Clam can push you away with its missiles, which is one thing Monitor can't do. I've seen Clams with Salamander MRM Pod in SS+ and oh god it's annoying. If you don't have 360 degrees shields or really good PD, you have to back off to deal with the Salamanders, while the Clam vents safely. And if you aren't catching a Clam venting you aren't going to beat it at all.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: HELMUT on January 28, 2016, 03:26:36 PM
I played a Junk Pirate campaign recently, and i've got some feedback. Early game was pretty difficult as the Nexerelin starting ship, the Clam, is definitely not a suitable flagship. The two newcomers frigates, or even the Sickle would be much better choices.

Breh'inni being so far from the civilized world doesn't help either. Also the fact that everyone will try to kill you because you're a pirate make a JP campaign a pretty rough ride. I also had some troubles finding ships throughout the game, Glory and Karkov rarely sold me anything bigger than a destroyer. It's not impossible that i was unlucky though.

Anyway, my feedback on the ships.

The Clam lost its fortress shield and its usefulness with it. It's now closer to the Vigilance than the Monitor, and given that JP already have the Hammer for that role, i'm not really convinced about it. Even with the good efficiency and flux shunt mod, it's not a very good escort. Fortress shield was possibly overkill on it, but FMR doesn't seems like an interesting replacement. Perhaps some drones then?

The Sickle felt like a Wolf mixed with a Hound. It's stupidly fast but lack manoeuvrability. Giving it a cautious officer and order it to capture strategic points isn't a bad idea. Otherwise, i gave it a graviton beam (then a lightning gun) to support from afar, hoping it wouldn't do something stupid (which it eventually did, anyway). I have to admit i didn't toyed much with those, as they were a surprisingly rare sight in stations.

The Clementine was my first true flagship after i managed to scrap enough coins in my Clam. It's a bit similar to the SS+ Tiger, or an energy Lasher. Which is why i immediately decided to strap Safety override on it. It's a bit trickier to fly than a SO Lasher, but i managed to make it works with pulse lasers and an Annihilator. By the way, a typo in the description, "manouvring jets" and two dots at the end.

It's sister ship, the Mandarine, is probably an even better SO ship. It's not quite as fast, but the weapon layout and respectable stats make it an ideal started ship. Both are even slightly cheaper than the Lasher.

The dreaded Hammer is back, not quite as absurd as the old one but still a very handy addition to any JP fleet. It's pretty much defenceless by itself and will probably die a lot when left unchecked. Babysitting a squad of Hammers is definitely worth the hassle given they can bring some dirt cheap medium (and small) missile support in battle.

For the destroyers, the Boxer got the spotlight for me. It's as cheap as a Mule, with the firepower of an Enforcer, flux stats better than a Hammerhead, and the armor of a heavy cruiser. It's one burn speed slower than average, and its few ordnances points can limit it a bit though. It's still a pretty good brawler, even with the weird angle on two of its hardpoints, and an even better fire support with the two medium missiles.

The Boxenstein is an all around better variant of the Boxer at the cost of being a tiny bit more expensive and slow. Like the Boxer, it can definitely brawl (a Blaster/IR Pulse/Harpoon variant can scare anything that is not bigger), but with its new weapon layout, i feel it's more comfortable as a fire support platform.

The Satsuma is a new one, and it felt like a low-tech Medusa. It's one of the most mobile destroyers around and can still bring a decent amount of guns. It's an interesting flagship candidate, as well as a SO ship, and while it can works in the hands of the AI, it's not as safe as the Boxer. Like all JP ships, it's a bit OP starved, but also very cheap to field.

The Turbot was my main flagship for a while, and the reason is its ability to mount a Typhoon launcher while being able to phase. Until the arrival of the future phase destroyer that Alex teased on tweeter, i think the Turbot is the only phase ship in the game (mods included?) that have a medium missile mount. Being able to sneak in all impunity behind the enemy flagship and backstab it with a torpedo is amazing. Without flagship, the AI tends to panic and retreat, leaving their vulnerable engines ripe for the taking for the rest of my ships.

Otherwise, it's a fairly unremarkable ship, very average stats, and while it's more expensive than other JP destroyers at 9 supplies per deployment, it's still in the domain of the very affordable. It's weapon layout can only be described as weird, and i rarely found an ideal loadout for it (Typhoon, backup Atropos and mining blaster was my build). The phase drones are very handy, and because of those, i suspect the Turbot might make a very good AI ship, even if i didn't tried that yet.

I wasn't convinced by the Scythe, it's an inferior competitor to the Mule. Extremely fragile, with a clumsy weapon layout and less cargo for the same cost. The only saving grace is its impressive speed, which is only interesting in escape scenarios.

The Octopus makes for an interesting alternative to the Condor and Gemini. The lack of long range support is obvious, and its frail armor won't save it once its shield is gone. But at 6 supplies/deployment, it's hard to find a cheaper carrier, and it's reasonable cargo space is still a welcome addition.

The Langoustine is the biggest loser of the bunch. Not because it's bad, but because i was extremely unlucky finding one. It's a shame, because it's my favourite sprite of the bunch, and it does seems like a monster from the little time i spend with it. A ship with HEF and a 1050 DPS built in energy weapon can't lie, it's good, it's a very frickin' good. Add on top of that a respectable armour, very good flux stats, incredible mobility, all of it for the price of a Hammerhead (8 supplies). Oh, there's also a medium universal, so that you can fit a Typhoon launcher there, and enough OPs for SO too, to give enough flux dissipation to feed the scorpion cannon. We may have a tier 1 here.

Now for the cruisers, the Jackdaw clearly is the one that bring the dakka. It's a broadside ship, although with generous angles, and it's quite fragile, making it fairly underwhelming for the AI to use. A pretty decent flagship, if perhaps a bit slow. You can still hurt really hard with its broadside barrage coupled with ammo feeder.

Its sibling, the Dugong, is surprisingly similar in stats despite the size difference. Its ballistic "left hook", while strong, isn't quite as menacing as the Jackdaw, but it compensate with a monstrous missile "right uppercut". Having so many missiles mounts of that size make it an incredible (overpowered?) fire support for the AI. As a flagship, you can open with a kinetic barrage and rotate with a torpedoes coup de grâce that will annihilate even the biggest capital ships.

And they are the same cost, 15 supplies, like the Falcon.

The Goat class is what an Apogee would be if it didn't ate its vegetables. Inferior in pretty much all categories, it's still fortunately a bit cheaper. The Goat "works" but definitely not as well as its vanilla counterpart, and its slightly lower cost isn't convincing enough.

The Orcenstein is a strange Dominator wannabe. Its armor is definitely not as tough but it compensate by a slightly better shield coverage and efficiency, it's also quite a bit more mobile. The main difference come from the energy weapons that replaced the ballistics of the Domi, and also a large missile mount on the front instead of the three medium. They still both works the same way, point at things, press the red button, watch the firework. It also have an inexplicably lower burn speed, which is compensated by a slightly lower cost.

Like the Langoustine, i was very unlucky with the Magpie, and couldn't try it for very long. Unlike the Langoustine however, the Magpie isn't that awesome. It's extremely fragile, quite slow (kinda offset by its burn drive) and quite under gunned. The twin built-in PICA are glorified pulse lasers. The Magpie can also rely on a single medium ballistic and a large missile for offence, which isn't that much, rear coverage is surprisingly paranoid though (5 small energy). The 145 OPs still leave a lot for customisation, which is strange given JP ships tends to be low on OPs.

Thankfully it only cost 20 supplies per deployment, but it's still a lot for a "heavy destroyer".

And now, the big one, the Kraken! A strange and interesting Conqueslaught hybrid. It doesn't brawl quite as well as the Onslaught, and it doesn't kite quite as well at the Conquest. I liked it, and yet i was disappointed. I wish it had manoeuvring jets instead of HEF, and an omni-shield! Yes, it can be offest by installing omni-shield and auxiliary thrusters hull mods, but it doesn't leave many OPs for anything else. I wanted to build it like an hybrid broadside, left kinetic softener, right energy killer. Alas, it doesn't rotate quite as fast, and its shield can't cover the sides very well. It still works, but not as well as i would have wished.

It's also the one of the few JP ship that cost more than it should. I feel it should be on the same footing as the Onslaught and Conquest in price.

The Orca is an intermediate between Odyssey than the Astral. It has the weapons to brawl, but lack the armor and flux to be a serious opponent. A low tech Astral that can bite, in some way. Still a bit expensive for what it does though.

I didn't really tried the Reaper. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight, a very expensive knife on top of that. Also, burn speed of 6, like all JP capital ships strangely.

Now the fighters. I didn't played a carrier fleet specifically but i still tried to field a bunch of those to see how they worked. The Spike is the closest thing JPs have to the Talon, and while it's definitely not as fast, it's monstrously hard to kill at 200 armor. And like most JPs fighters, extremely cheap to field (1 supply the whole wing!). Only 50 flux dissipation though, not sure how they can actually use their dual autocannons.

The Splinter wing is very similar to the Spike. Not as tanky (still more than a Gladius) but twice a kill-y, two vulcans plus a dual-mg is merciless against targets with stripped armor. And they come in wings of four.

The Shard is a distant cousin of the Gladius, but with only 1 IR pulse. They still come with one more fighter per wing and are cheaper to field. Also, the description talk about Breh'inni 2, which currently doesn't exist. A relic of the old times of Starfarer?

And finally, the Cleat bomber. A weird, twisted variant of the Dagger with a shield that can barely survive a single autocannon shot, they rarely reach their target if someone is looking at them. The good news is that their are freakishly fast for bombers, making them pretty hard to intercept until it's too late. They still need quite a lot of micro to avoid stupid suicides. Also comes with a tactical laser, which i'm not sure of its purpose.


Annnnd that's all! That was pretty fun campaign overall, even if getting to Breh'inni every times to buy new ships was getting tiresome. The faction could benefit from some stations here and there around the sector, to avoid constantly going back to the edge of the universe to re-supply.

The faction isn't as weak as i expected it to be. Some ships are definitely in need of a nerf (Langoustine, Dugong, Boxer-stein, fighter's armors...), while some might need to be buffed a bit (Goat, Scythe, Magpie...). And i also really wish the Clam will get a new ship system. Like i said earlier, drones could be very interesting for an escort, but its price should suffer to compensate.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 28, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
@grinningsphinx: I'm glad you are able to adjust things to suit your needs :)

The tech level is ... Current? ... like every other faction? Just limited by availability and other imaginary practical factors.

You aren't, by any chance, relying heavily on beams? I don't personally see the level of resilience you infer, and regularly lose my own Clams in evenly matched, low level engagements against non-elite groups.

I play SS+, and havent had a PC Clam yet, but i can tell you without a doubt that i have never lost the Monitor that i almost started the game with, and thats with an NPC pilot in it. 

Elite Clams with level 20 pilots are simply ridiculous lol.  They suck up the firepower of 5 normal cruisers.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 28, 2016, 08:01:18 PM
Sounds like the faction as a whole is fairly well balanced according to helmuts post.


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on February 15, 2016, 03:17:47 PM
You know how it goes, think about tweaks your gonna make from a nice round of feedback - first thing you do is start spriting a capital ship ...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/pack_bulldog.png)

BULLDOG CLASS
Big, ugly, and powerful - but a history of introspective and destructive design iteration means it is no longer the ultimate fighting dog that it once was.

The original designs were, at one point, best in class and this vessel was a key tactical piece in the Kollective achieving the segregation that they so desired. As the Bulldog saw fewer and fewer engagements, and the relevant technical minds rotted through generations of isolation, without enough self-awareness or foresight, the systems were (at best) never suitably upgraded (or at worst) inadvertently down-specified against a comparable machine in another part of the sector.

Whilst it does not compare favourably in terms of ordnance load or flux handling to the other key players in its weight-class - two front facing closely focused large ballistic mounts and exceptional all round coverage make it a very dangerous foe in shorter evenly-matched engagements against most ships.


Title: Boxenstein Two Diamondbacks Together Equals Wayfarer
Post by: Network Pesci on March 02, 2016, 10:45:23 AM
When can we hope for a .7.2a release of this modpack?  Tomorrow night?  Friday morning? (he asked hopefully)


Title: Re: Boxenstein Two Diamondbacks Together Equals Wayfarer
Post by: mendonca on March 02, 2016, 12:45:37 PM
When can we hope for a .7.2a release of this modpack?  Tomorrow night?  Friday morning? (he asked hopefully)

That would be great, but I don't reckon I'll hit that.

Got sucked too deep in to adding stuff, and haven't even looked in to fighter rebalancing etc. - as well as virtually zero time actually trying out the new version.

I'll keep pluggin away though, shouldn't be too much longer :)


Title: Re: [0.7.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Blaze on March 04, 2016, 08:26:21 PM
Got an issue getting it to start at all, I know it's not a version error as I'm running 7.1 and this hasn't been updated to that yet.

Edit: Nevermind, looks like it was missing some files from an improper unpacking or something.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on March 05, 2016, 01:25:40 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk255splash.png)

Download New Version (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/Junk_Pirates_255.zip)

NEW ASP-sponsored skins for:
- Hammerhead
- Vigilance
- Cerberus
- Mercury
All have shielded cargo holds (if not already), and a minor buff to stats.

PACK:
- Bulldog Added. Capital ship. Entropy Amplifier, lacks a missile mount. Excellent all round coverage from energy weapons.
- Canebianco Shar-Pei (Phase Destroyer)
- Wirefox (SH) - Smooth Haired shuttle. Lightweight and cheap freighter / shuttle. Perhaps a step up from Hermes in combat aptitude.

SPRITES:
- The Reaper sprite updated.

BALANCE:
- Ridgeback X and Ridgeback - system migrated to 'Damper Field'.
- Clam-class given a damper field (in lieu of missleracks) in conjunction with Flux Shunts in the interim, subject to further development.
- Nudged boxer/stein armor values down.
- Tweaked fighter resilience (Armor/HP) for the JP fleet generally to bring them more in line with vanilla.
- Spike flux stats improved.
- Welding Drone flux stats improved in order to allow it to actually fire it's weapon.
- Welding drone now regenerates from the TNT drone - The Reaper drone cloud can now persist over a longer engagement, without TNT drones having to be killed.
- Orca has been made a touch quicker.


Think that's the main stuff, although I may have tweaked other stuff.

Let me know if there are any issues!


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Toxcity on March 05, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Might want to add a small breakdown of what kinds of boosts the Asp skins get in the hullmod. Also would be nice if they had (Asp Syndicate) or other declaration with them, to better them differentiate from their vanilla counterparts.

Besides that, the update is looking good.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Dark.Revenant on March 05, 2016, 04:11:31 PM
What's with all the unused bullseye skins?


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on March 05, 2016, 11:57:15 PM
Might want to add a small breakdown of what kinds of boosts the Asp skins get in the hullmod. Also would be nice if they had (Asp Syndicate) or other declaration with them, to better them differentiate from their vanilla counterparts.

Besides that, the update is looking good.

Yeah, makes sense, will sort that out.

What's with all the unused bullseye skins?

Honest answer is that I'm not gonna have much time over the next few weeks, so deciding what to do with them (and properly finishing them off) didn't get resolved before I got this release out.
Options in my head:
- IBB Fleet
- Rare PACK ships accessed by THI style machine shop on a remote station somewhere.

I don't want to be presumptuous about suitability for IBB or the imposition on SS+ to incorporate, but there it is - they are yours if you want them.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Ahne on March 06, 2016, 10:24:52 AM
i like the junkies, not to play but to kill :) death the pirates!

good update mendonca!


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on March 06, 2016, 02:07:54 PM
i like the junkies, not to play but to kill :) death the pirates!

good update mendonca!

Ha ha! Poor guys :)

Thanks dude.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Starasp on April 11, 2016, 09:10:19 PM
You know, I kind of just realized how much the Schnauzer looks like the new Centurion frigate in vanilla.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: Metadane on October 06, 2016, 10:41:43 AM
I have no idea what I'm doing but when I use this mod I get a ''Fatal: Index 1, Size: 1.'' error. I'm using the exact same mods that I used for version 0.7.1a (and it worked then) so I don't know what the conflicting mod is if any.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.5.5 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
Post by: mendonca on October 11, 2016, 01:46:08 AM
I have no idea what I'm doing but when I use this mod I get a ''Fatal: Index 1, Size: 1.'' error. I'm using the exact same mods that I used for version 0.7.1a (and it worked then) so I don't know what the conflicting mod is if any.

Hey dude, sorry for the late reply - not sure how
I missed this - would you mind listing your mods used?

I'd love to fix this if it's at my end but I can't recreate the issue here.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on March 19, 2017, 11:47:42 AM
Pushing out a new version because I've been messing about with it for so long - got it to a reasonable point - but now I want to go and play with Exigency.

Approximate changelist:

- Rebalanced following recent tournament. Current focus has been to shift credit-cost in line to normalise fleets. Heavy impact to the PACK fleet; not so much to the rest.
- Added custom sounds to all non-missile weapons.
- More work on the systems in an attempt to make Breh'inni, Canis, Ursulo more interesting places to be.
- Added number of new illustrations and portraits (still need to put some work in on these).
- Nerfed The Grapes (a bit weaker but approximately as powerful on a shot-for-shot basis, but fire far less often).

Probably some other stuff. I forgot to count.

Version checker might be broke for a short while; as dropbox took away the functionality of the Public Drive and I'll have to decide how I want to replace that in the long term.

Appreciate any feedback! Especially if things are broke! The Dropbox thing has been a little disruptive with the OP, as well, but I'll need to try and find time soon to sort it out.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/odgyf8ewtgz7k0x/JP_RC_260.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/odgyf8ewtgz7k0x/JP_RC_260.zip?dl=0)


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Mysterhay on March 19, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
 :o My grapes! What have you done with my beautiful grapes?!...

Tbf that needed to happen, their value for 3OP in long battles was just insane. Thanks for the update!


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Mysterhay on March 19, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
PS

I guess all grape things must come to an end.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: borgrel on April 29, 2017, 11:26:51 AM
When this is updated to 0.8:

The ASP are a courier service right?

Mind adding dialogue with station commanders so u can hire ASP to bring u information (update ur comms) -or- bring u supplies -or- bring u fuel while ur out in the boondocks?
Maybe add an ASP 'AAA' service? if the player pays ASP: change the distress call icon and dispatch an ASP tanker when the distress call is clicked?


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Wriath on April 30, 2017, 07:08:52 PM
Maybe add an ASP 'AAA' service? if the player pays ASP: change the distress call icon and dispatch an ASP tanker when the distress call is clicked?

That's a kinda cool idea.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: JT on May 01, 2017, 09:16:12 AM
Maybe add an ASP 'AAA' service? if the player pays ASP: change the distress call icon and dispatch an ASP tanker when the distress call is clicked?

That's a kinda cool idea.

I'd suggest a new ability rather than disabling the existing one, though, since making distress calls sometimes has nothing to do with calling someone for assistance.  Making distress calls can also be used to lure pirates and/or to lure prey, after all.  Calling A.S.P. Autofactory Association is less likely to be used for other than its intended purpose.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on May 02, 2017, 02:05:57 PM
Neat idea.

I'm still trying to play through the new game and get a feel for where this all fits in, but something like this could work (would probably have to 'handwave' some hyperspace communications to an affiliated fleet that just happens to be 3 days away and not 30, but yeah, why not something like this).

I am also going to be a bit careful with the way it all fits together, don't want to rush out a 'compatibility' update just yet - as the enlarged sphere of civilisation and the exploration mechanics are something I've been waiting for; and tie in with all the lore of PACK / JP specifically so now seems like a good time to try and take advantage and not just drop a couple of extra systems in where it doesn't make much sense.

Having said that; would definitely look to push out a simple update once Nex hits with a proper procgen mode; due to the obvious difference between a random Nex game and 'Corvus-mode' and the lack of any sort of conflict there.



Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Wriath on May 02, 2017, 02:15:56 PM
Looking forward to it, take your time though, you've set yourself some pretty serious quality standards.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: SierraTangoDelta on May 03, 2017, 12:41:55 PM
You could say that ASP fleets pass along information back to HQ and then determine if it's worth taking the request for fuel, since the player is most likely going to be requesting fuel in some far-off places. That's just a lore-wise explanation anyway.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: MCWarhammer on May 18, 2017, 10:26:33 AM
Thanks for the testimonials, I really needed that laugh today.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Owl on June 10, 2017, 07:26:24 PM
I miss this mod it was great fun, one of the first mods I slapped on to Star Sector


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on June 11, 2017, 12:46:59 PM
I miss this mod it was great fun, one of the first mods I slapped on to Star Sector

Thanks for the kind words!

Hopefully I'll get some time in the next couple of weeks to genuinely get in to the compatibility and balance updates done for 0.8.1.

Still not sure how the campaign content is going to end up - and I don't feel particularly confident in fighter balance generally, but I'll do my best to get something out that is fun.

Also; 6 year old thread. Blimey; apparently this is traditionally an 'IRON' anniversary. Feels like this has to be reflected in the update somehow ...


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: 2_Wycked on June 28, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
Yo Mendonca, still planning to update this? I need that Dewgong back in my life


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on June 29, 2017, 01:18:54 AM
Yeah, still planning to do so.

Sorry I can't give an ETA just yet, in all honesty I haven't found the time to even start real work on the update.

Will give an update when I'm closer to knowing what I'm doing.

Thanks for the interest, though, it's appreciated.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on June 29, 2017, 10:04:13 AM
Seconding that interest.  Several mod factions make the early and midgame BRUTALLY difficult thanks to pirates including the modships in their fleets.  (BRDY, Templars, etc).  I have got an idea that this faction won't do that, just provide a pleasing amount of variety.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on July 05, 2017, 05:02:52 AM
Stumbled across some development sketches from 2013 ... thought they were pretty funny ... especially the PACK name brainstorming ...

(http://i.imgur.com/9XPYNdd.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/8Hb9Lqq.png)


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Owl on July 26, 2017, 07:39:53 PM
all part of the creative process, start with chunky and then wittle and refine  ;D


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: lechibang on September 02, 2017, 09:49:33 AM
Hopefully this mod would be updated soon


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: HELMUT on November 03, 2017, 10:18:41 AM
Hey Mendonca, any chance we'll have some space pirates/courriers/dogs update fairly soon? I'm missing them.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on November 04, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
Hey HELMUT, I think it might actually happen - like - fairly soon. As in, totally non-specific timeframe, but it moves.

Difficult to commit or even estimate, but the summer has gone away and I've just recently had a few chances to actively work on it again, - and assuming I manage to get everything in order prior to getting completely sidetracked by other things that happen 'out there' - I think we should get there in a reasonable timeframe.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: A Random Jolteon on November 04, 2017, 09:58:53 PM
Hey HELMUT, I think it might actually happen - like - fairly soon. As in, totally non-specific timeframe, but it moves.

Difficult to commit or even estimate, but the summer has gone away and I've just recently had a few chances to actively work on it again, - and assuming I manage to get everything in order prior to getting completely sidetracked by other things that happen 'out there' - I think we should get there in a reasonable timeframe.
People would prob be content to just have it working, rather than having new stuff.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Vigal on November 05, 2017, 03:20:44 PM

People would prob be content to just have it working, rather than having new stuff.
[/quote]

I agree with this compatibility is always preferred to new stuff because then people have the mod so there isn't any pressure to finish off new stuff to release the update.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on November 06, 2017, 12:48:42 AM
People would prob be content to just have it working, rather than having new stuff.

I agree with this compatibility is always preferred to new stuff because then people have the mod so there isn't any pressure to finish off new stuff to release the update.

Thanks guys, yeah that's generally where I'm working towards. It doesn't run yet, but most of the pieces should be in place now to just work through a load of errors when trying to load the game - also new content is in some respects unavoidable what with the drone / fighter changes etc. and this will necessarily need a bit of playtesting / checking prior to pushing it out so it's not completely unplayable at day zero.


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Ahne on November 06, 2017, 06:56:17 AM
Nice to hear about progress, will be fun again to shoot some junk rats out of the system :)


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: AxleMC131 on November 06, 2017, 08:44:15 PM
I always did like the look of Junk Pirates.  :) Did you know they were the first Starsector mod I was ever shown, way back when I first encountered the game in like 2011? And yet I've never played with them myself, even though I adore the concepts for some of the ships. Definitely staying posted!


Title: Re: [0.7.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.6.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: 2_Wycked on November 09, 2017, 02:03:53 PM
Great news, Junk Pirates are lit!


Title: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0
Post by: mendonca on November 16, 2017, 08:07:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9dkO0yC.png) (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jx3a0taahvbe40/JP_RC_270.zip?dl=0)

Click the picture above for download. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jx3a0taahvbe40/JP_RC_270.zip?dl=0)

Now featuring:

SOUNDS from MesoTroniK (significantly improved custom weapon sounds)

MUSIC from Versus The Ghost (https://versustheghost.bandcamp.com/)

Please keep away from the Kraken.

This represents the first public release for 0.8.1a, picks up compatibility with Version Checker and contains lots of small changes.

Please feel free to leave all kinds of feedback, and even if you are not interested in the mod, do check out the music. It's cool.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: A Random Jolteon on November 16, 2017, 08:32:58 AM
A MIRACLE HAS HAPPEN! REJOICE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! REJOICE WITH HAPPINESS!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: MajorTheRed on November 16, 2017, 09:32:57 AM
Great news! I was missing this graphical style! Will (re)try it soon!

The number of skins fo each ship is pretty impressive!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Seth on November 16, 2017, 12:10:54 PM
Oh man! Ohmanohmanohman! This is happening!!!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on November 16, 2017, 01:04:21 PM
Hot diggity, hoody hoo, and other such TOS-compliant exclamations!  Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: 2_Wycked on November 16, 2017, 04:00:46 PM
Just about broke my mouse smashing that DL button haha

Edit: does this work with DynaSector?


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on November 17, 2017, 06:09:51 AM
Edit: does this work with DynaSector?

Hi 2_Wycked, I think it should work okay with DynaSector, but admittedly haven't played enough at 0.8.1a with DynaSector enabled to give any specific guarantees.

Please do let me know if you have any problems though, and if there are issues I'll resolve anything at my end as soon as I can.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: 2_Wycked on November 17, 2017, 02:03:12 PM
I played with DS enabled for a bit and didnt see problems any but I dont think i actually saw any JP/PACK ships at all. Is there a specific market/system I can grab em at?


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: A Random Jolteon on November 17, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
I played with DS enabled for a bit and didnt see problems any but I dont think i actually saw any JP/PACK ships at all. Is there a specific market/system I can grab em at?
There are (at least) two systems that come with those two. I forget where they are exactly, but I thing it's up around Yma. The systems are largely JP/Pack systems.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Ahne on November 17, 2017, 06:32:27 PM
Great to see junkys back!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Azmond on November 17, 2017, 08:32:02 PM
OH YOU GLOARIOUS JUNK-FUNKY-BLAGGARDS!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!  YOU'RE BACK!!!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: dk1332 on November 18, 2017, 12:28:38 AM
Been waiting for this mod to be updated for 0.8! Welp, time for a new game.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: 2_Wycked on November 18, 2017, 04:13:57 AM
I played with DS enabled for a bit and didnt see problems any but I dont think i actually saw any JP/PACK ships at all. Is there a specific market/system I can grab em at?
There are (at least) two systems that come with those two. I forget where they are exactly, but I thing it's up around Yma. The systems are largely JP/Pack systems.

Good lookin out homie!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on November 21, 2017, 01:10:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yzYOzfd.png) (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipacv002u40fy9p/JP_RC_271.zip?dl=0)
Download 2.7.1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipacv002u40fy9p/JP_RC_271.zip?dl=0)

Key Changes:
- Cleat wing weaponry changed (bye bye reapers, hello Plan-D, a re-purposed escape pod)
- Vanilla music reintroduced to playlist in campaign
- FELIX and Insult Drone tweaked to better behaviour
- FELIX drone added fighter flare launcher
- Constrictor wing sabot count reduced markedly

As usual feel free to leave feedback or let me know any issues.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.1 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Ahne on November 22, 2017, 06:18:36 AM
Great, keep it up.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on November 28, 2017, 12:46:56 PM
Just a minor pre-tourney check on PACK skins costs (some hadn't caught up properly after the first tournament)

DOWNLOAD (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6jziyovi2wjb7xy/JP_RC_272.zip?dl=0)


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Network Pesci on November 28, 2017, 03:12:15 PM
So this affects only the money cost of custom skins?  Save-compatible and all?


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on November 29, 2017, 04:03:56 AM
So this affects only the money cost of custom skins?  Save-compatible and all?

Yeah that's right.

Essentially the 'bigger' Rothund / Canebianco / Caomarelo skins were still sitting at the same credit-cost as they were prior to the debacle that was the First Tournament; which brought to the fore the unfair and uncompetitive pricing strategies at play with the P.A.C.K.

I guess it's not really much of an issue for single player play - as the credit cost of stuff isn't really that finely balanced up to a certain point; but when looking at it under the microscope of a Tournament which depends almost entirely on the credit costs - I felt it was important to align these as best as I could.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: joebob1337 on December 01, 2017, 11:06:50 AM
(Exited but late reply)

WOO, watch out galaxy, the ECNV Prometheus has returned! (Red version of PACK battleship, cant recall the name)


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Nikopol on February 15, 2018, 06:44:18 AM
Junk Pirates mod crashes my game after few hours when saving the game. No error message in log, it just stops writing log at "Saving stage 1" and crashes. I have over 30 mods active with no issues and disabling this mod solved my problem. I played another 20 hours just to be sure.  I am using latest game and I am no beginner in modding.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Sooner535 on February 15, 2018, 09:53:45 AM
I can confirm the above, when I played a few months ago I had the save game bug and it made me stop playing, this mod was the only mod that I didn’t take from my last mod list (plus a few more) (which was just plain luck I suppose) and no save bug


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: mendonca on February 15, 2018, 11:11:09 AM
Hey thanks for letting me know.

Are you able to provide any further information? I would love to know if this is the case for people running 3 or 4 mods.

30 or 31 mods; just seems possible that a critical memory boundary is being stepped across???

I don’t *think* there is anything complicated enough in his mod to e.g. cause a memory leak or some such - and there is certainly no significant novel scripting in place.

I’m certainly not dismissing any mistakes on my part; but there is fairly limited info for me to act on there.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Sooner535 on February 15, 2018, 12:35:46 PM
I could give my mod list if that would help, (try to from memory anyways). I have more mods then last time though so it shouldn’t be a memory thing as far as I’m aware


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: AxleMC131 on February 15, 2018, 09:03:10 PM
I can tell you now that this is not a Junk Pirates bug. It's a known bug that occurs when running many combination of mods, and we don't really know why it happens. When and why seem to be wholly random.

The general advice for avoiding the issue is, when saving, to use the "Save Copy" option, as it skips the "Backing Up Save" step that the game hang occurs at.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: zaimoni on February 15, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
I can tell you now that this is not a Junk Pirates bug. It's a known bug that occurs when running many combination of mods, and we don't really know why it happens. When and why seem to be wholly random.
It acts like an automatic garbage collector hang; multi-threading deadlock don't need hours of runtime to set up a test.  The surprising thing is that it takes mods to trigger it.

Sufficient mod list to trigger: only Nexerilin and DynaSector combined.  No others required.  On the system I have SS installed on; I just have to allow the game to run continually for 4 or 5 hours and the next quicksave will fry with 100% reliability.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Nikopol on February 15, 2018, 11:44:49 PM
I can tell you now that this is not a Junk Pirates bug.
Sorry to disappoint you bro, but it's happening only with this mod for me. Before I started my post here, I made sure of it. It's happening also when I reduce my mod list to 1/3. I can play with 30 mods enabled no problem, Nexerelin, Dynasector also and I save only quicksaves and have no crashes.

Mendonca, sorry for not including more details on the problem, but there is literally nothing about it in logs.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 16, 2018, 12:40:47 AM
What are your system specs?
How much ram are you allocating?
Are you doing anything else like changing the Xstream .jar etc?
What is your mod list?


Junk Pirates is a well made mod, and if you want more help having that info is what it will take and without it no one can provide anything useful.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Nikopol on February 16, 2018, 05:38:29 AM
What are your system specs?
Intel Core i5 2500K
16GB DDR3
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670
How much ram are you allocating?
-Xms4096m -Xmx4096m -Xss2048k
Are you doing anything else like changing the Xstream .jar etc?
No.
What is your mod list?
Arsenal Expansion 1.4.7
Audio Plus
Autosave
Blackrock Drive Yards
Combat Alarm Sounds
Combat Chatter
Common Radar
DIABLEAVIONICS
DisassembleReassemble_v0.10
DynaSector
Foundation Of Borken
Galatia Complete
GraphicsLib
Interstellar Imperium
LazyLib
Leading Pip
Looters
Metelson
Neutrino corp
New Galactic Order 1.06b
Nexerelin
Portrait pack
Rebalanced Pilums
Ship and Weapon Pack
Templars
The Vass
Tiandong Heavy Industries 1.1.2
Tore Up Plenty
Underworld
UnknownSkies
UpgradedRotaryWeapons


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on February 16, 2018, 05:41:23 AM
What are your system specs?
Intel Core i5 2500K
16GB DDR3
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670
How much ram are you allocating?
-Xms4096m -Xmx4096m -Xss2048k
There is your problem. Not allocating enough RAM. Give it 6 gigs and see what happens


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Snrasha on February 16, 2018, 06:16:37 AM
What are your system specs?
Intel Core i5 2500K
16GB DDR3
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670
How much ram are you allocating?
-Xms4096m -Xmx4096m -Xss2048k
There is your problem. Not allocating enough RAM. Give it 6 gigs and see what happens

A other problem, he have the Looters mods who do not exist anymore(The mod have be merged with a another). But this is not linked to the current problem. Just for say to Midnight kitnuse.
Sorry.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Sooner535 on February 16, 2018, 06:26:55 AM
Well if this is for sure not a junk pirate thing (and it just so happens that I got a weird combo awhile back) then I’m more than happy to enjoy this mod again because I’ve missed it a ton >.< thank you for correcting my assumptions


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Nikopol on February 16, 2018, 06:41:47 AM
A other problem, he have the Looters mods who do not exist anymore(The mod have be merged with a another). But this is not linked to the current problem. Just for say to Midnight kitnuse.
Sorry.

Yeah, I used your looters as a base for my mod, so there is no original content anymore in that folder. I shouldn't include it in the list. My bad.
Also Tiandong is made compatible with 8.1 by me and works OK. But all of this are just irrelevant things.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 16, 2018, 10:31:56 PM
Intel Core i5 2500K
16GB DDR3
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670

-Xms4096m -Xmx4096m -Xss2048k

Arsenal Expansion 1.4.7
Audio Plus
Autosave
Blackrock Drive Yards
Combat Alarm Sounds
Combat Chatter
Common Radar
DIABLEAVIONICS
DisassembleReassemble_v0.10
DynaSector
Foundation Of Borken
Galatia Complete
GraphicsLib
Interstellar Imperium
LazyLib
Leading Pip
Looters
Metelson
Neutrino corp
New Galactic Order 1.06b
Nexerelin
Portrait pack
Rebalanced Pilums
Ship and Weapon Pack
Templars
The Vass
Tiandong Heavy Industries 1.1.2
Tore Up Plenty
Underworld
UnknownSkies
UpgradedRotaryWeapons

OK, I can tell you your problems quite easily my friend.

Allocate 6 gigs of ram, not 4, you have 16 total in your system anyways. Do not modify the Xss parameter either. So your pertinent section of vaparams will look like this:
-Xms6144m -Xmx6144m -Xss1024k

That is a lot of mods and your problem is likely three fold. Not enough allocated ram and messing with Xss, and here is the kicker. You have a video card with 2 gigs of vram when your mod list will use approximatley 1750 + the operating system itself and any other programs you use will go over 2 gigs fairly easily.

So you need to remove some mods or disable GraphicsLib shaders. Whatever you prefer, less content or less eye candy but you *must* reduce vram usage along with the vparams changes I recommended.


Also Tiandong is made compatible with 8.1 by me and works OK. But all of this are just irrelevant things.

I uh really, don't care to imagine all the possible problems you created by doing a simple update of THI to make it "work" in 0.8x...


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: Nikopol on February 17, 2018, 12:12:10 AM
Thank you, I will try to run the game with your recommended settings and will try also Junk Pirates next week and will see what happens. Going over videoram capacity is NO problem at all. I play GTA V with settings about 3.6GB and have zero crashes and with other games also. Textures must load from somewhere else then. I don't really care how it works, when it works.

I uh really, don't care to imagine all the possible problems you created by doing a simple update of THI to make it "work" in 0.8x...
Sorry to scare you bro, but you know, waiting for you to update is pain. ;-)


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.7.2 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Graphicslib Required
Post by: MesoTroniK on February 17, 2018, 01:12:36 AM
How SS works is not the same as most games when it comes to ram and vram use.