Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Sundog on May 01, 2019, 07:30:24 PM

Title: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 01, 2019, 07:30:24 PM
Starship Legends

Download Starship Legends 1.3.14 (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/Starship_Legends_1.3.14.zip)
Older Versions (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/)

Compatible with all known mods.
Can be added to existing games.
All updates are save-compatible unless stated otherwise.
Integrated with Version Checker (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8181) and Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0).
Can NOT be removed from games in which it was already used, but it can be fully disabled.


Starship Legends adds more personality and variety to ships, their crew, your officers, and NPC fleets using a trait/quirk system.

As the reputation of each of your ship grows, it will earn traits that influence its performance.
These traits are stored in a single, dynamic hullmod. Like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/W8YNkPX.png)

Major Features:

Reputation Evolution
The traits a ship earns are randomized in a sensible way that encourages using them effectively.

Combat ships earn traits after battle, based on the amount of experience earned.
The first few traits are easy to get, but getting a ship to 'Legendary' status may require enough experience to level your character to 50.
Fortunately, ships are more likely to gain new traits the higher your character level is. At level 50, trait chance is increased by 250%.

Ships that do well in combat will earn a greater number of good traits, and their crews will be more loyal to their captains.
A ship that is nearly destroyed in every battle without dealing any hull damage will only get bad traits.
A ship that destroys four equally powerful ships without taking any hull damage in each battle will earn nothing but good traits.
Most ships will be somewhere in-between.
Reputations are dynamic. So even if a ship has several bad traits, it is possible to eventually replace all of them with good ones.

Civilian ships earn traits based on any experience you earn outside of battle.

The way reputations grow and change is highly configurable by editing STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini in this mod's folder.
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Enemy Fleet Reputations
Yours aren't the only ships with reputations. Each AI fleet commander grants a reputation to their entire fleet, adding potential twists to every engagement. Fleets with high-level commanders have better reputations.

(https://i.imgur.com/9QvcWm0.png)
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Faction Reputations
The types of traits a fleet is likely to have is based on its faction

  • Hegemony fleets frequently have traits related to weapons and durability.
  • Tri Tachyon fleets have a high chance to get traits that modify fighters and phase ships.
  • Sindrian Diktat fleets usually have increased range and reduced mobility, with a high chance of weapon related traits.
  • Luddic fleets are almost always poorly maintained and believed to be cursed, but often deal more damage.
  • Persian League fleets are likely to get traits that modify fighters, shields, and flux stats.
  • Domain drone fleets all have the same traits, improving staying power at the expense of speed and accuracy.
  • Remnant fleets all have the same traits, making them even more powerful at the expense of increased overload and vent duration.
  • Independent and pirate fleets have a decent chance to get the blockade runner trait, which is normally unavailable to other factions.
  • Fleets from modded factions that haven't integrated with starship legends get a balanced set of randomized traits.
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Famous NPC Flagships
You will often hear rumors about the flagships of other fleet commanders as well. If you can defeat them and salvage their flagship, perhaps you deserve it more.

(https://i.imgur.com/u5vIglp.png)
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Lost Famous Derelicts
If you're lucky, you might even learn about worthy ships that can be acquired without bloodshed (however likely other complications may be)

(https://i.imgur.com/JtiLz4M.png)
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Recommended Option 'Presets'
The options file is very flexible, but it can be a bit complicated and hard to understand.
These edits are meant as a starting point for configuring Starship Legends to fit your preferred playstyle.


Default
The default settings are meant to give ships a fairly even mix of good and bad traits while making it possible (but difficult) for them to eventually earn perfect reputations through exceptional performance in combat.

Ruthless Legends
If you're using Ruthless Sector alongside Starship Legends, then the RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini settings file is used instead of STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini. You can change this options file too, but by default it makes it much more difficult for ships to gain positive traits.

Perfect Balance
For those who want to add flavor to ships without upsetting the balance of the game more than necessary.
With these settings, every other trait will have a negative effect, and no effects will be applied due to loyalty.
Quote
"battleDifficultyMult":0.0,
"damageTakenMult":0.0,
"damageDealtMult":0.0,
"supportMult":0.0,
"enableOfficerLoyaltySystem":false,
"showCombatRatings":false,

Unlimited Power
It's a single player game, so there's no such thing as cheating  ;)
These settings guarantee that traits will always be beneficial and crews will never become less loyal to their captains.
Quote
"ignoreAllMaluses":true,
"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true,
"worsenLoyaltyChanceMult":0.0,

Completely Random
These settings will leave the number of good and bad traits a ship gets up to chance.
Quote
"bonusChanceRandomness":1000.0,
"traitPositionChangeChanceMult":0.0,

Better Immersion
With these settings, reputation changes will be determined only by the ship's performance in the battle in which the changes were earned.

Quote
"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true,
"traitPositionChangeChanceMult":1.0,
"showCombatRatings":false,
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Frequent Questions
Can I add Starship Legends to an existing game?
Yes, but it can not be removed afterward.
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Does this mod introduce power creep?
The difficulty of this mod is highly configurable, but with default settings I think it's about the same as vanilla.
Avoiding bad or sub-optimal traits takes both skill and a little luck, and they can't simply be repaired like a D-mod.
Building a good reputation for a ship is an end-game activity that takes time, money, and skill.
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What options does this mod provide?
You can edit STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini in the mod folder to change many things, like:
How strong traits are and how hard it is to get them.
How likely it is to get good traits instead of bad ones.
How likely it is for combat ships to get logistic traits and civilian ships to get combat traits.
How rating is calculated.
How loyalty changes work.
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What does combat rating do?
Combat rating determines how many of a ship's traits are good.
Traits will gradually shift to have a percentage of good traits equal to the current rating of the ship.
If a ship has a rating of 70% for a long time, it will eventually end up with about 70% good traits and 30% bad traits.
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How do I increase the combat rating of my ships?
Basically, by making sure they deal as much hull damage as they can while taking as little hull damage as possible.
Each time a ship participates in a battle, it gets a battle rating between 0 (bad) and 1 (good) which adjusts the overall combat rating.

With the default settings, battle rating is equal to 0.5 - damageTaken*0.5 + damageDealt*0.125 + supportDealt*0.125
Where damageTaken is 0 if the ship took no hull damage and 0.9 if it took 90% hull damage,
damageDealt is the deployment-cost worth of hull damage destroyed, divided by the ship's own deployment-cost,
And supportDealt is the deploy-cost worth of hull damage dealt during each engagement by all of your ships that participated in it, divided by the cost to deploy them.

Once the battle rating is calculated, the ship's persistent combat rating is adjusted to be closer to the battle rating using this formula:
newCombatRating = oldCombatRating * 0.9 + battleRating * 0.1
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What is the exact formula for the rating a ship gets during a battle?
br = baseRating + bd*battleDifficultyMult - dt*damageTakenMult + max(0, dd-damageDealtMinThreshold)*damageDealtMult + sd*supportMult
where:
baseRating, battleDifficultyMult, damageTakenMult, damageDealtMult, and damageDealtMinThreshold are values you can change in STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini.
br = Battle Rating - an approximation of how well the ship did during that battle.
(0 means 0%, 1 means 100%)
bd = Battle Difficulty - a ratio of total supply deployment cost for both sides (not including ships deployed during pursuit).
(e.g. 1.5 if the enemy spends 12 supplies deploying ships and you spend 8.  12 / 8 = 1.5)
(If Ruthless Sector (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15279.0) is also being used, the Battle Difficulty it calculates will be used instead)

dt = Damage Taken as a fraction of total hull integrity.
(e.g. 0.2 for a ship that starts battle with 70% hull and ends with 50%.  0.7 - 0.5 = 0.2)
dd = Damage Dealt as deployment-cost worth of hull damage destroyed, divided by the ship's own deployment-cost.
(e.g. 1.5 for a ship that costs 4 supplies to deploy dealing 50% damage to a ship that costs 12 supplies to deploy.  12 * 0.5 / 4 = 1.5)
(max(x, y) means that the greater of x and y will be chosen.  max(3, 2) = 3)

sd = Support Damage Dealt as the deploy-cost worth of hull damage dealt during an engagement by all of your ships, divided by the cost to deploy them.
Support damage is calculated individually for each engagement, so a ship that participates in more engagements during a battle will earn more rating for support.
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How do I improve loyalty?
Loyalty is based on the combat rating a ship gets for each battle.
If it is above 0.5, loyalty might increase, otherwise, it might decrease.
The further the bonus chance is from 0.5, the higher the likelihood that it will change.
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Is there a way to reset a ship's reputation?
Yes. Reputations can be completely reset by mothballing a ship for 10 consecutive days per trait (in or out of storage).
This will remove all traits and loyalties from the ship, and will reset its rating.
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Does Starship Legends conflict with any other mods?
Not that I know of. Please let me know if you find out it does!
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How do I customize how Starship Legends interacts with my faction mod?
  • First, download the example config file (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/factionConfigurations.json) and place it in "mods/YOUR_MOD/data/config/starship_legends/"
  • Edit the file to your liking. It's full of comments. You probably won't need most of it, so feel free to delete unneeded parts
  • Load a save file with this mod and your faction enabled
  • Check the log for a message like this: INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading config file for faction: your faction name
If you see that line in the log without any errors following it, then everything is probably working fine.

I'm happy to help with integration in any way I can, so feel free to ask for clarification/help/etc.
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Can I remove Starship Legends from my game?
No, but it can be disabled by setting "removeAllDataAndFeatures" to true in the options file (it's at the bottom)
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Change Log

1.3.14

Removed the possibility for ships with modules to be chosen as famous flagships or derelicts, as this could lead to crashes (this won't be necessary with the next version of Starsector)
Fixed loyalties being reset in many circumstances.
Fixed a problem that increased the number of storytellers that tell "fanciful fabrications"
Added Escape as a hotkey for all "leave" options related to storyteller events


1.3.13

Fixed new storyteller bar events temporarily not being created in some cases
Fixed some player ships having the effects of the enemy fleet's reputation during battle in some cases


1.3.12

Fixed reputation resets never occuring if the required time to clear the ship's reputation exceded 30 days
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned
Fixed storyteller events breaking if the game was saved and reloaded between first seeing the event and accepting it
Fixed an error that could occur when updating from very old versions of starship legends
Fixed a few typos
Added new integration functionality meant to make it easy for mod authors to allow retrofitted ships to retain their reputations:
   starship_legends.Reputation.transferReputation(FleetMemberAPI from, FleetMemberAPI to)


1.3.11

Fixed reputation data being erased the first time a new game was saved, causing all kinds of trouble, including reputation hullmods displaying error messages
Fixed loyalty changes occurring for ships with no traits (and therefore no reputation hullmods)
Added "PrintStarshipLegendsData" console command, which prints starship legends data


1.3.10

Fixed stat changes from NPC fleet trait not being reflected in the stats cards of enemy ships (both before and during battle)
Fixed NPC fleets having different traits during different play sessions
Fixed famous flagship intel "show on map" showing the exact location of the fleet instead of just the system
Fixed the possibility for multiple storyteller events to choose the same target fleet
Fixed another error that could sometimes close the bar dialog when viewed
Fixed the ability to save-scum storyteller events (the same event will now be generated every time after reloading)
Fixed storytellers telling "fanciful fabrications" (which means an invalid mission was generated) far too often in some cases
Changes for the Excelsior and Royco (script-heavy ships from Ship and Weapon Pack):
   Hull damage no longer counts against rating at all, unless the ship is disabled
   Flux related traits can no longer be received


1.3.9

Changed: By default, combat rating reductions will now be multiplied by the percentage of lost hull integrity
   This means no reductions will occur for ships that take no damage
   To balance this change, baseRating has been reduced from 75% to 65% (default) and 40% to 30% (with ruthless sector)
   Added "multiplyRatingLossesByPercentageOfLostHull" setting to allow this change to be disabled
Fixed famous derelicts always having names based on the independent faction
Fixed civilian ships getting rating adjustments when deployed in combat
Fixed a rare bug that sometimes caused money do be deducted when accepting storyteller events that shouldn't cost money to accept
Fixed AI flavor text being used for mothballed ships that would otherwise require crew
Fixed a rare error that would close the dialog screen when "visiting a dockside bar"
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary (fixed previously in 1.3.5, but that fix was reverted due to complications)
Changed: Reduced default frequency of storytellers in bars by 50%


1.3.8

Fixed storytellers never appearing at markets owned by the player's faction
Fixed fleets from enhanced bounty missions (Vayra's Sector) not showing up as famous flagship targets
Fixed timed derelict recovery mission map icons not having a guage for the remaining time
Fixed factions with integration data in faction files overriding data for the same faction in factionConfigs files
Fixed ships with no/few missile slots getting missile related traits while ships with many missile slots couldn't
Fixed ships with no weapon slots being able to get weapon related traits
Added a check to remove irreleveant traits (as above) whenever a game is loaded with a new version of the mod
Added a short description of the target fleet's last known activity to famous flagship intel
Changed missile related trait effect descriptions to make them more clear:
   missile reload rate  ->  missile rate of fire
   missile agility  ->  missile manuevering


1.3.7

Fixed an error that prevented some derelict bar events from being accepted


1.3.6

Fixed everything broken by 1.3.5 (which was basically everything) - Apologies to those of you who downloaded it


1.3.5

Fixed a serious issue caused by famous derelict bar events spawning derelicts even if the quest was not accepted
   These derelicts were bugged, and would freeze the game when interacted with
   Loading a game with this version of starship legends or higher will remove them from the sector
Fixed famous flagship bar event sometimes choosing target fleets that are scheduled to despawn soon
Fixed remnant fleets sometimes being chosen for famous flagship events in systems with remnants and at least one market
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary
Changed: All famous derelict/flagship intel is now automatically marked important when accepted
Changed: Significantly reduced the chance for famous derelicts to be in good condition


1.3.4

Fixed flagship bar events generating different reputations for the same ship at different markets
Fixed reloading clearing the reputation hullmod from famous AI flagships
Fixed fleet reputations changing on reload


1.3.3

Fixed an error that sometimes prevented fleet traits from being displayed or applied if "traitsPerTier" was set very high (above 8 or so)
Fixed new setting "showNewTraitNotifications" not being applied
Fixed non-lore friendly references to "years" in text instead of "cycles"
Fixed a few grammar mistakes in the bar event descriptions


1.3.2

Fixed an error that would cause famous flagship bar events to sometimes fail
Fixed traits that modify missile rate of fire not being applied correctly, sometimes resulting in rediculous rapid-fire torpedoes
Added a setting to disable notifications about traits earned from peaceful xp: "showNewTraitNotifications"


1.3.1

Fixed an error that would occur when "Consider your military options" was chosen for a market that has no defenses
Fixed a mod conflict that would prevent Nexerelin from showing the option to launch invasions on markets
Fixed ships getting negative traits via peaceful xp when the "ignoreAllMaluses" option is set to true
Fixed the likelihood of civilian ships to earn traits from peaceful xp being far too high (reduced by 80%)


1.3.0

New Features:
   Enemy fleets now have traits of their own, based on the fleet's faction and level of its commander
   Added a bar event that provides information about famous ships that you can aquire through post-battle salvage or derelict recovery
   Civilian ships now earn traits based on experience earned outside of combat, but no longer gain traits after battle (by default)

Combat Rating Calculation Improvements:
   When a ship earns a rating higher than 100% after a battle, the excess rating is now shared equally betwen all deployed ships
   Generally improved how the combat rating system decides whether a new trait should be good or bad
   Fixed an issue that could sometimes result in ships not earning new traits when they should
   
Added a slew of new settings to adjust how the new features work
Added two new trait types that adjust the effectiveness of missiles
Added a new icon for battle reports
Added a setting for disabling (and potentially uninstalling) starship legends: "removeAllDataAndFeatures"
Removed "UninstallStarshipLegends" console command in favor of the above setting
Fixed a harmless error message that would pop up on save when no variants were defined for a ship type
Fixed reputation hullmod listing loyalty levels for officers that are no longer in the fleet
Changed default days required per trait to reset a ship's reputation from 30 to 10
Changed: Traits now have more of an effect, especially at lower tiers
Changed: increased default baseRating from 0.5 to 0.75 to compensate for enemy fleets having mostly good traits


1.2.2

Added a new contributing factor to rating calculation that is meant to benifit support ships
   Ratings are now increased based on hull damage dealt by all allied ships during any engagement in which the ship was deployed
   "supportMult" setting added to the options file
Added a console command for uninstalling Starship Legends (uninstallStarshipLegends). See FAQs for how to use it properly
Added more flavor text for AI reputation hullmods (thanks to Avanitia for all the help with this!)
Fixed a mostly harmless error that could occur during battle when a trait triggered a malfunction for disabled ships
Fixed trait effects not propegating to the sub-sections of multi-section ships
Fixed: Reputation hullmods are now removed from autofit goal variants prior to game saves
Changed: Ships will no longer recieve any type of negative reputation adjustment after a battle in which their rating improved, and vice versa
Changed: Dealing hull damage to civilian ships now improves rating, making rating improvement via pursuit more viable


1.2.1

FIXED:
Default RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini settings will no longer cause civilian ships to recieve nothing but bad traits
Battle reports will no longer display loyalty changes for ships that do not yet have a reputation

ADDED:
New setting "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" to easily change the likelihood for civilian ships to get good traits

CHANGES:
The default rating formula has been adjusted, reducing the effects of both taking and dealing hull damage by half
The rating of Noir ships (from the Artefact mod) is now less affected by hull damage due to their reliance on hull regeneration
Settings are now loaded using getMergedJSONForMod, making it possible to override them with other mods (including personal tweaks mods)


1.2.0

Added 12 new traits:
   Battle Scarred / Scrap Heap - Adjusted effects from lasting damage (d-mods). Only earned after ship recovery
   Skilled/Inept Survey Team - Further reduces supplies required for surveys. Only for ships with built-in surveying equipment
   Blockade Runner - Increases speed boost at zero flux. Only for ships with built-in shielded cargo holds
   Cool/Hot-running Drive Stabilizer - Adjusts sensor profile by quite a bit. Only for ships with built-in drive field stabilizers (like the Ox)
   Comm Support - CP recovery while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   Nav Support - Speed bonus for all ships while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   ECM Support - ECM rating bonus while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   Cursed - Spontaneous malfunction chance. Only earned after ship recovery
   Phase-mad Crew - Malfunction chance while phased. Only earned after ship recovery by ships with built-in phase fields
Added console commands: AddTrait, SetLoyalty, AdjustTraits, ClearRep, ListTraitEffects, SetRating, SetTraitEffectMult, and List traits
Added supplimentary details to battle reports, including lists of enemy ships destroyed and routed
Added a section to reputation hullmod tooltips that shows the officers with the most loyalty (only when no officer is assigned)
Added a new setting for easily changing the potency of trait effects: "globalEffectMult"
Added an alternative settings file to be used only when ruthless sector is active: RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
Added an error pop-up when used with old versions of Starsector
Added a file for adjusting the percent of damage taken that is counted for rating calculation: "\sun_sl\data\hull_regen_ships.csv"
   This is primarily for ships that regenerate hull damage, and currently only applies to the Excelsior and Royco (from ship and weapon pack), with a 50% reduction
   Please let me know of any other ships that regenerate hull and should be adjusted
Fixed battle reports not being sorted by date and time
Fixed rating colum of battle reports being too narrow at very low resolutions
Fixed starship legends calculating battle difficulty when ruthless sector reports a battle difficulty of 0% due to reload penalties
Changed logic for trait prominance changes to prevent insignificant swapping of trait positions
Changed battle report notification for trait prominance changes to mention both traits that swapped places
Changed default rating calculation to exclude battle difficulty
Changed: ships deployed only to mop up fleeing enemies are again counted as deployed for the battle
Changed ship strength calculation to be overriden by ruthless sector if it is also active
Changed traits that affect crew losses to also apply to losses taken by fighters
Changed XP required to guarantee new traits. It has been lowered for all tiers:
   Notable        160k -> 80k
   Well Known     640k -> 400k
   Famous       2560k -> 2000k
   Legendary   10240k -> 10000k


1.1.13

Ships that are deployed only to mop up fleeing enemies will no longer count as deployed for the battle
Fixed a few minor formatting issues for battle reports
Added new settings, both of which default to 0.75 (75%)
   chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
   chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips


1.1.12

Fixed "Skilled Salvage Team" being the only trait that could possibly be earned (it's a long story...)
Improved accuracy of ship-strength estimation for non-player [REDACTED] ships, including those added by mods
Civilian ships are now estimated to have 0 strength, and therefore no longer affect battle difficulty rating


1.1.11

Fixed combat rating adjustments not being saved if the ship had no trait or loyalty changes
Fixed an issue that made it possible for a ship with max rating to get negative trait changes
Fixed ships with built-in phase field hullmods being able to earn non-applicable traits related to sensor profile
Loyalty levels now require certain ratings to improve, from 0.1 at insubordinate to 0.9 at loyal
The CR decay adjustment from loyalty now ranges from -30% to 30% instead of -50% to 100%
The strength estimation of stations is now based on fleet points rather than deployment cost
Battle reports...
   Now include destroyed and disabled ships that were not recovered
   Will no longer disappear as long as they are marked as important (pinned)
   Now show ratings for the battle instead of a persistent rating when useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance is true
   Now list ships in the order they were in before battle instead of after


1.1.10

Fixed a problem with battle difficulty calculation
Fixed battle report showing a rating of 0% for combat ships that weren't deployed


1.1.9

Fixes the lack of backwards compatibility introduced in the last patch


1.1.8

Fixed miscellaneous bugs related to damage calculations (eventually I'll get it right)
Fixed additional credit being awarded for landing the killing blow to a station
Fixed battle difficulty calculation failing to account for D-Mods, along with a few other issues
Fixed inital rating for newly notable ships not being applied
Damage dealt to non-functional station sections (like armor sections) no longer counts as hull damage
Added new option: "showCombatRatings"
Fixed debug information appearing in reputation hullmod tooltips


1.1.7

A ship's balance of good/bad traits is now determined by it's combat rating, with only a small amount of RNG (see FAQs for how the new system works)
Fixed hull damage not being recorded after a full retreat (by the player)
Fixed an issue that would occasionally cause battle difficulty to be 0%
Fixed credit for damage dealt to sub-sections of stations and multi-section ships not being distributed properly
Fixed multi-section ships not getting credit for damage dealt by their sub-sections
Sustained hull damage is now capped at 100%, which should help ships with regenerating hull until I can make a more perminant fix
Doubled the xp required to earn new traits at every tier


1.1.6

Fixed failure to credit carriers with the damage dealt by their fighters (again)


1.1.5

Fixed friendly fire to player ships being counted as dealt damage
Fixed Field Repairs 1 and 2 affecting the calculation of sustained damage
Fixed damage against some enemy ships not being recorded (hopefully)
The battle report now lists loyalty levels (in gray) even when there was no change in loyalty
Reduced effect multipliers for all trait tiers:
   Notable       4 -> 3
   Well-known    6 -> 4
   Famous       8 -> 5
   Legendary   10 -> 6
Trait effect multiplier for Fiercly Loyal reduced from 3 to 2
Trait effect multiplier for Openly Insubordinate increased from -3 to -2
Adjusted loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference
Adjusted CR decay rate effects from loyalty:
   Openly Insubordinate    75 -> 100
   Insubordinate       50 -> 50
   Doubtful       25 -> 25
   Indifferent        0 -> 0
   Confident      -25 -> -20
   Loyal         -50 -> -35
   Fiercely Loyal      -75 -> -50


1.1.4

Fixed an error caused by harrying a fleet without engaging (and possibly other, similar, situations)


1.1.3

Fixed occasional failure to record damage dealt after battle
Fixed failure to credit carriers with the damage dealt by their fighters
Fixed an error that would sometimes occur when a ship's reputation was cleared
Added setting - traitPositionChangeChanceMultiplier


1.1.2

Fixed failure to properly handle some unconventional battles (automated defenses, stations, scripted events, etc.)
Added a description of what a trait does in the notes section of battle reports when a new trait is gained


1.1.1

Fixed issue preventing loss of loyalty in most cases


1.1.0

ADDITIONS
   Instead of notifications, a battle report is now created that details all reputation changes from the battle
   A ship's traits can now change positions or even be removed based on how well they perform in combat
   Reputations can now be completely reset by mothballing a ship for 30 consecutive days per trait
   Added 2 new levels of loyalty and reworked the loyalty fluctuation system
   New trait type: Dutiful/Obstinate Crew - affects chance of improving loyalty
   Added support for ships with no crew requirement, including renamed crew traits (e.g. "Cooperative AI Persona" instead of "Dutiful Crew")

FIXES
   Fixed trait limit not being applied (by default there should never be more than 2 traits per tier). Existing ships with more than 2 traits per tier should be fixed automatically
   Ship restoration no longer removes reputation hullmods (fixed by Starsector version 0.9.1a)
   Fixed removal of pre-existing duplicate trait types not working
   Fixed trait effects not applying to ships in storage
   Fixed mothballed ships being able to earn traits
   Fixed issue that occasionally allowed reputation changes to persist after reloading
   Corrected spelling of "Volitile Flux Core" to "Volatile Flux Core"

REPUTATION GROWTH CHANGES
   Reworked calculation for chance of getting positive vs negative traits (see FAQs for the exact formula)
   Ships that take less than 5% total hull damage in battle will not get a bad defense trait for that battle
   Ships that deal more deployment-cost worth of damage than their own cost-to-deploy will not get a bad offensive trait for that battle
   Civilian ships are now far less likely to gain new traits beyond "Notable" tier

TRAIT BASE EFFECT BALANCE
   Agile/Clunky increased from 1 to 3 (maneuverability)
   Durable/Fragile increased from 1 to 2 (hull integrity)
   Fast/Slow Turret Gyros increased from 3 to 4 (weapon turn rate)
   Robust/Glitchy increased from 2 to 3 (EMP resistance)
   Durable/Fragile Mounts increased from 3 to 4 (weapon durability)
   Durable/Fragile Engines increased from 3 to 4 (engine durability)
   Skilled/Incompetent Engineers increased from 2 to 3 (repair rate)
   Removed Meager Fuel Tanks and Meager Cargo Hold traits, which should automatically be removed from existing games on load
   Changed Ample Fuel Tanks and Ample Cargo Holds to a flat bonus based on hull size


1.0.3

Fixed an error caused by crew loyalty changes without new traits. The error was introduced in the last patch


1.0.2

Duplicate trait types should no longer be possible, and existing duplicates should be removed upon loading a game
Average time between reputation changes is now reduced based on the number of pending changes
Restoring a ship will still remove reputation hullmods, unfortunately, but they are now restored as soon as you leave the market
Effect on crew casualties from 'Safe' and 'Death Trap' traits has been reduced by 40%


1.0.1

Fixed a crash caused by an incompatibility with Ship/Weapon Pack
Fixed an error that caused the error reporting system to fail
[close]
About Starship Legends
Source: https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/src/default/src/starship_legends/ (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/src/default/src/starship_legends/)

Thanks
Alex and the rest of the Fractal Softworks team, for this excellent game and it's outstanding modding API.
Voiddweller, for letting me steal his idea (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15291.0).
LazyWizard, for making this mod much easier to test using Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0).
kazi, for the guide on setting up Intelij IDE (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0)

Permissions
All assets from this project may be used without obtaining explicit permission as long as...
No laws are broken and Fractal Softworks' terms of service are not violated
The original authors of any code or assets used are credited
Nothing taken from this mod is used for nefarious purposes
[close]
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Vayra on May 01, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
oh HELL yes, i was waiting for this one
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Surge on May 01, 2019, 07:51:51 PM
THE DAY IS HERE. So excited to play with this.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TauKinth on May 01, 2019, 07:56:54 PM
It looks like a good mod to fit the same niche as Extra Systems, I can't wait to break play with it!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: cjuicy on May 01, 2019, 08:17:28 PM
Damn it, stop revolutionizing my mod list every time I take a freakin nap!

In all seriousness, I'm wrapping up a current run and will begin toying around with this in short order. Definitely look forward to it.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Morbo513 on May 01, 2019, 08:24:21 PM
This sounds really cool. What are the mechanics behind crew loyalty?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JadedTarget on May 01, 2019, 08:50:55 PM
This is just plain cool.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 01, 2019, 10:36:28 PM
Glad you guys like it  :D

I can't wait to break play with it!
Please do! It's much easier to fix bugs when I know about them  :)

This sounds really cool. What are the mechanics behind crew loyalty?
I'll flesh out the FAQs soon with answers to this question and others. For now you might want to take a look at the options file to get an idea of how it works. Basically it's the same as good vs bad traits, with hull damage taken in battle being the primary factor.

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dri on May 02, 2019, 12:59:26 AM
Pretty rad, this is the type of thing I'd hope Alex would seriously look into added to the in some way.

More personality for ships/crew is always welcome.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 02, 2019, 01:35:23 AM
It's not the old crew experience, but I will check it out. Looks promising.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Cyan Leader on May 02, 2019, 04:58:25 AM
The modding community never ceases to amaze me. Are these applied to AI fleets in any way though? I could see this working hand in hand with bounties, facing some legendary fleets and such.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Flunky on May 02, 2019, 07:05:19 AM
I haven't yet fiddled around with the mod, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it'd be interesting to have certain good traits associated with getting battle damage (but surviving) and certain bad traits associated with getting through unscathed.

E.g. crew getting complacent after too many easy victories, or crew getting grim/determined after skin-of-the-teeth victories.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Wyvern on May 02, 2019, 12:00:08 PM
This looks awesome.

However, I'd definitely want to adjust the connection to hull damage; at least in my experience, any ship that relies on armor as its primary defense (i.e. the entire low-tech line-up) will usually take a small-to-moderate amount of hull damage in the course of a normal battle.  And then you get into the industry fleet-of-clunkers playstyle where you expect your ships to get battered in combat...

Personally, I already skew towards preferring high-tech shield-based ships just because I don't like taking crew casualties.  I don't need another thing that encourages that same playstyle.

I'm not entirely sure what to replace it with, though; there does definitely still need to be the possibility of acquiring negative traits so that it's not just pure power creep, and making that completely RNG feels off too...

Additionally, I don't know maybe this is already in (haven't had a chance to play with this yet and won't for a couple days), but I'd suggest that there be a way to wipe the slate clean and start over - maybe treating the reputation mod as a d-mod that'll get removed (and then re-applied clean) after a full shipyard restoration of the hull?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Surge on May 02, 2019, 12:15:40 PM
Trying to load a save that has this mod and I'm getting this error
Code
299393 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: ruthless_sector/ModPlugin
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: ruthless_sector/ModPlugin
at starship_legends.ModPlugin.reportCrash(ModPlugin.java:140)
at starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation.applyEffects(Reputation.java:186)
at starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation.applyEffectsBeforeShipCreation(Reputation.java:229)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.updateStats(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.syncIfNeeded(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.getMembers(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.getMembersListCopy(Unknown Source)
at data.scripts.SWPModPlugin.onGameLoad(SWPModPlugin.java:209)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.TitleScreenState.dialogDismissed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.while.dismiss(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.float.dismiss(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.LoadGameDialog.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.V.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: ruthless_sector.ModPlugin
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
... 22 more
Which I'm posting here instead of in the ruthless sector thread because I don't use ruthless sector.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 01:43:43 PM
Thanks for the report! I should be able to get a patch out soon.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 02:13:09 PM
Fixed a crash caused by an incompatibility with Ship/Weapon Pack (my fault)
Fixed an error that caused the error reporting system to fail
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dal on May 02, 2019, 03:43:40 PM
I agree with the hull damage concerns. I tend to fly my ships to their last weld in combat but don't typically actually lose them. Maybe the metric could be number of crew casualties? Or maybe CR degradation in combat, representing over-working?

Also, grats on getting mentioned on Alex's twitter.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ranakastrasz on May 02, 2019, 04:29:39 PM
I agree with the hull damage concerns. I tend to fly my ships to their last weld in combat but don't typically actually lose them. Maybe the metric could be number of crew casualties? Or maybe CR degradation in combat, representing over-working?

Also, grats on getting mentioned on Alex's twitter.

I always thought hull damage caused crew casualties. Admittedly, I never checked. But yes, I do the same thing.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 06:08:38 PM
Are these applied to AI fleets in any way though? I could see this working hand in hand with bounties, facing some legendary fleets and such.
Currently reputations only apply to player-owned ships, and for the most part that won't change. The problem with NPC ships having traits is that there would be no good way to show those traits to the player, which would lead to random and unpredictable variations in the strength of enemy ships.

However, if I can figure out a good way to do it, I would like to make it so that the flagships of bounty fleets have traits sometimes. I would have to be able to list the traits in the intel screen though, so it might not be feasible.

I haven't yet fiddled around with the mod, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it'd be interesting to have certain good traits associated with getting battle damage (but surviving) and certain bad traits associated with getting through unscathed.
This could make sense thematically and I do think it could be interesting, but I wouldn't want to encourage players to get their ships damaged in the hopes of getting certain traits. I think players should be rewarded for playing effectively, not ineffectively.

I agree with the hull damage concerns. I tend to fly my ships to their last weld in combat but don't typically actually lose them. Maybe the metric could be number of crew casualties? Or maybe CR degradation in combat, representing over-working?
Using hull damage as the primary metric isn't perfect, but I still think it's the best one. I think the complications for things like crew losses or CR are worse. I think the best way to go about it is to make adjustments based on things like how difficult the battle was (which is accounted for in the current version) and how much damage the ship dealt (which I'll probably add soon).

in my experience, any ship that relies on armor as its primary defense (i.e. the entire low-tech line-up) will usually take a small-to-moderate amount of hull damage in the course of a normal battle.
I agree that low-tech style ships are more likely to take some hull damage, but in my experience you can prevent them from taking massive damage more reliably than high-tech ships. I think the real problem is tanky vs squishy ships. I think glass cannons like Sunders should be able to compensate for taking some hull damage by dealing hull damage.

And then you get into the industry fleet-of-clunkers playstyle where you expect your ships to get battered in combat...
I agree that starship legends could cause gameplay problems for this playstyle, but thematically I think it fits perfectly. The crewmen of a fleet like that would hate their ships, captains, and lives, and It makes sense that rust-buckets would have bad reputations. From a gameplay perspective I don't think the commonality of bad traits would be too bad due to how disposable ships are in a fleet like that. High ship turn-over means more bad traits, but it also means more ships (with different reputations) to choose from.

Personally, I already skew towards preferring high-tech shield-based ships just because I don't like taking crew casualties.  I don't need another thing that encourages that same playstyle.
Same. Overall, I do think that high-tech ships are generally the most powerful, but I don't want to try to compensate for imbalances in vanilla.

I'd suggest that there be a way to wipe the slate clean and start over - maybe treating the reputation mod as a d-mod that'll get removed (and then re-applied clean) after a full shipyard restoration of the hull?
I would personally prefer for reputations to persist through restorations so that it's possible to restore a ship with a reputation you like. However, I am considering adding an opt-in option to make it so that ships in storage gradually lose their traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Flunky on May 02, 2019, 07:19:12 PM
I haven't yet fiddled around with the mod, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it'd be interesting to have certain good traits associated with getting battle damage (but surviving) and certain bad traits associated with getting through unscathed.
This could make sense thematically and I do think it could be interesting, but I wouldn't want to encourage players to get their ships damaged in the hopes of getting certain traits. I think players should be rewarded for playing effectively, not ineffectively.

Fair point. And, having now played with it a little bit, seems to be enough of a chance to get negatives when doing fine (and vice versa) that one can get the story of a complacent or determined crew even if that's not the actual mechanic. Works for me.

Additionally, having looked at the options and thinking about others' comments: would it be possible to make it a three point chance of malus plot rather than the two currently? E.g. instead of "chanceOfMalusAtNoHullLost" and "chanceOfMalusAtHalfHullLost", it could be a 0->33->66 sort of thing or the like? Having the chance get more severe as the ship gets closer to being disabled might offset alleviate the low/high-tech disparity, given their relative armor and hull levels.

Also, because I forgot to say this the first time: great mod, thanks! Even with just a bit of playing I'm finding little stories coming together with this.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tei on May 02, 2019, 08:34:04 PM
So judging from this thread and me trying out this mod, Hull damage makes your crew hate you. Currently Im piloting my dominator and it can take hits, but even though I more or less cut a bloody path through an enemy fleet and punching far above my weight the ships crew absolutely hates me.

Maybe have it so that the penalties/traits can get nullified after battle depending on how much damage you deal in return or how many kills you get during battle.

Perhaps have a "Blood Lust" or "Extreme Aggression" trait that makes your crew hating you worth it (and turning your currently piloted ship into a go hard, go fast or die trying sort of vessel.)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zhentar on May 02, 2019, 08:51:38 PM
with hull damage taken in battle being the primary factor.

Are you sure about the in battle part? Because my civilian vessels are rapidly accumulating traits while traveling through hyperspace storms... one of my Ox tugs has rickety hardpoints and a worn-out targeting computer now. I know the description says they can be superstitions but that's a bit extreme...

Other things I've noticed:
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 09:28:04 PM
New Known Issues

@Zhentar: Hull damage doesn't matter for civilian ships that aren't deployed. Their chance of getting a negative trait is simply 50%. The other things are bugs that have recently been reported to me. I just came here to let people know about them until I can get a fix out, but thanks for telling me about them!

@Tei, Flunky: Thanks for the feedback, guys! I'll reply soon, but for now I want to focus on getting a patch out.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 11:29:16 PM
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 03, 2019, 01:19:50 AM
Small typo: "Volitile Flux Core"

I do love the mod! But before specific feedback I want to ask, what the long term goal of the mod. Is it to make the player look to build ther "perfect" starship, with no critical nigative traits? Or is the goal to give ships variety by giving ships both positive and negative traits?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: dk1332 on May 03, 2019, 01:55:09 AM
Looks good, gonna try this mod after my current campaign.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nicke535 on May 03, 2019, 02:11:57 AM
Amazing work so far, Sundog.

Minor feature suggestion: changed hullmod description/"trait-up" description for ships with zero crew capacity. Mechanically it still works, but an automated ship with reference to crew can be an odd inconsistency.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 03, 2019, 04:08:09 AM
in my experience, any ship that relies on armor as its primary defense (i.e. the entire low-tech line-up) will usually take a small-to-moderate amount of hull damage in the course of a normal battle.
I agree that low-tech style ships are more likely to take some hull damage, but in my experience you can prevent them from taking massive damage more reliably than high-tech ships. I think the real problem is tanky vs squishy ships. I think glass cannons like Sunders should be able to compensate for taking some hull damage by dealing hull damage.

Personally, I already skew towards preferring high-tech shield-based ships just because I don't like taking crew casualties.  I don't need another thing that encourages that same playstyle.
Same. Overall, I do think that high-tech ships are generally the most powerful, but I don't want to try to compensate for imbalances in vanilla.
Would it be possible to have a modifier that changes the chances for negative traits either on tech-level or deviation from average size health pool basis?

The thing about high-tech ships is that they're supposed to be less numerous and more individually powerful, which is reflected in their logistical footprint, at least maintenance-wise.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: YuiTheModder on May 03, 2019, 09:27:56 AM
Does this mod add the ability for enemy captains and their fleets/ships to also have a reputation and custom ship hullmods?

I would love that.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tei on May 03, 2019, 10:06:40 AM
New Known Issues
  • Restoring a ship will remove it's reputation hullmod until it has any new reputation change (including crew opinions of officers), at which point all previous traits will be restored.
  • It's possible to get the same type of trait. Starship legends prevents ships from getting traits they already have, but not ones that they will have.

@Zhentar: Hull damage doesn't matter for civilian ships that aren't deployed. Their chance of getting a negative trait is simply 50%. The other things are bugs that have recently been reported to me. I just came here to let people know about them until I can get a fix out, but thanks for telling me about them!

@Tei, Flunky: Thanks for the feedback, guys! I'll reply soon, but for now I want to focus on getting a patch out.

Speaking of which, what exactly influences what traits you get? My dominator flagship has reduced vent rates, is it because I vent so much in battle?

Though its totally believable to say that because I vent so much the machines responsible for ship venting is starting to get worn out. But at the same it can be handwaved that because I command the cre to vent so often that the crew is much more profficient and knowledgeable of the procedure for venting thus venting is more optimized.

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: HELMUT on May 03, 2019, 12:12:20 PM
One on hand, this seems like a refined version of the Extra Systems mod, and i really want to try that.

On the other hand, i should probably wait for the inevitable others gameplay-change mods you'll release after this one before playing. I mean, this is your fourth one, you won't stop there right?

Joke aside, i'm not super sure with the way negative traits are gained depending on hull damage either. Yes, i do fly my ships like a Pather, and no, i won't compromise my reckless piloting for something as trivial as self-preservation.

But the bonuses! I want them! Although i admit i'm not sure what would be the solution either... I am against the solution of "repetition until mastered" like Trei suggested. I spent too much time in Skyrim afk-hitting a mammoth with a stick to increase my one-handed skill already.

Maybe the gained traits can depends on a battle end-result? Coming out of a fight half-alive at the top of a mountain of your foe's skulls would probably net you better traits than coming out half-alive without firing a single shot.

The combat analytics mod by Nick allow for some pretty impressive stat recording during battle. Perhaps something similar could be exploited to determine the traits one ship can gain depending on its performance? That way i could still behave like a glory hound while spacing half of my crew.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 03, 2019, 12:26:20 PM
I have noticed that some (but not all) Sylphon ships do not seem to get traits. In my "pursuit" frigate/fast destroyer squadron for auto-resolving stragglers, most ships are now "Famous", while the Celica Rel I have has no traits. Meanwhile the Sylphon battlecruiser and the totally-not-Spaceship-Yamato I have get traits just fine, even without a crew for the former.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tei on May 03, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
That way i could still behave like a glory hound while spacing half of my crew.

I see you too are a Space Admiral of culture as well.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 03, 2019, 02:30:40 PM
Starship Legends 1.0.3 (BETA)

Fixed an error caused by crew loyalty changes without new traits. The error was introduced in the last patch. Sorry about that!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on May 03, 2019, 03:09:06 PM
The combat analytics mod by Nick allow for some pretty impressive stat recording during battle. Perhaps something similar could be exploited to determine the traits one ship can gain depending on its performance? That way i could still behave like a glory hound while spacing half of my crew.

This would be very cool. Combat Analytics doesn't do perfect assessments of damage dealt/taken (it does an educated guess to work out who killed what, and it doesn't model armour/shield reductions to damage so frag damage is overrepresented iirc) but being able to say "I took a lot of damage but killed a lot of ships" and get a relevant associated reputation would be very cool.

You could go more in depth and track a lot more metrics, and relate traits to things like, say, being the ship that did a lot of damage to and (probably) killed a much larger ship and getting a reputation as giantslayers, or preying on all the small trash frigates the AI sends into battle, or maybe taking a lot of shield damage but no/little armour damage says something about the quality of the shielding on your ship, fighting in a lot of pursuits and not a lot of battles, etc etc, although associating stuff that happens in battle to traits more closely might have its own issues and would result in a lot more coding work for Sundog.

A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 03, 2019, 03:34:54 PM
A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
I am very much in favor of this. If the goal is to give ships variety and uniqueness, rather than straight up "buffs or re-roll", this would be better. Using the existing system, basically at each fame level the ship could get a guaranteed positive and negative trait that are semi-linked in a thematic way.

For example:
*Ship takes a lot of hull damage over many battles without retreating or going down: likely to gain a positive trait on repair rate, CR recovery, HP, mount/Engine durability (crew gets used to patching it up). Linked negative traits: CR cap, peak CR time (crew can never quite the the ship fully fixed), crew casualties, sensors (always get taken out from damage)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 03, 2019, 05:14:07 PM
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions! I'm glad you guys are enjoying it  :D

Avoiding Bad Traits
I've received a LOT of good feedback about this (both here and on Discord), and I've given quite a bit of thought to figuring out how best to improve the system. So here's a rough idea of what I have in mind:
I also need to write up a clear and detailed description of how the system works for the FAQ.

Would it be possible to make it a three point chance of malus plot rather than the two currently? E.g. instead of "chanceOfMalusAtNoHullLost" and "chanceOfMalusAtHalfHullLost", it could be a 0->33->66 sort of thing or the like?
It's certainly possible, but I want to avoid making the system any more complicated than necessary. I think it's important for game mechanics to be easy to understand.

Small typo: "Volitile Flux Core"
Thanks! Fixed for the next release.

what the long term goal of the mod. Is it to make the player look to build ther "perfect" starship, with no critical nigative traits? Or is the goal to give ships variety by giving ships both positive and negative traits?
Very much both, depending on the stage of the game. At the start of a game I want it to be about dealing with whatever traits you end up with as best you can, but by the very late-game the goal is to provide both a money and xp sink in the form of optimizing traits to build ideal ships.

Minor feature suggestion: changed hullmod description/"trait-up" description for ships with zero crew capacity. Mechanically it still works, but an automated ship with reference to crew can be an odd inconsistency.
Agreed. It's on my TODO list, along with a few other things to support automated ships.

Would it be possible to have a modifier that changes the chances for negative traits either on tech-level or deviation from average size health pool basis?
Possible, yeah, but I'd like to avoid deliberate balancing. I think change 4 will help normalize things. Change 1 might help too, especially in cases like Dominator/Onslaught.

Does this mod add the ability for enemy captains and their fleets/ships to also have a reputation and custom ship hullmods?
Spoiler
Are these applied to AI fleets in any way though? I could see this working hand in hand with bounties, facing some legendary fleets and such.
Currently reputations only apply to player-owned ships, and for the most part that won't change. The problem with NPC ships having traits is that there would be no good way to show those traits to the player, which would lead to random and unpredictable variations in the strength of enemy ships.

However, if I can figure out a good way to do it, I would like to make it so that the flagships of bounty fleets have traits sometimes. I would have to be able to list the traits in the intel screen though, so it might not be feasible.
[close]

Speaking of which, what exactly influences what traits you get? My dominator flagship has reduced vent rates, is it because I vent so much in battle?
Nope. It's mostly just RNG (for reasons discussed above)

On the other hand, i should probably wait for the inevitable others gameplay-change mods you'll release after this one before playing. I mean, this is your fourth one, you won't stop there right?
For now I will. My other ideas for gameplay-change mods have a much lower ROI than the ones I've made so far. I think my next mod will be a very small, refined version of ICE. And when I say very small, I mean only 3 new ships.

I have noticed that some (but not all) Sylphon ships do not seem to get traits. In my "pursuit" frigate/fast destroyer squadron for auto-resolving stragglers, most ships are now "Famous", while the Celica Rel I have has no traits. Meanwhile the Sylphon battlecruiser and the totally-not-Spaceship-Yamato I have get traits just fine, even without a crew for the former.
Starship legends currently neglects ships with a crew requirement of 0, assuming any excess crew are just along for the ride. I'll work on improving this.

You could go more in depth and track a lot more metrics, [snip] although associating stuff that happens in battle to traits more closely might have its own issues and would result in a lot more coding work for Sundog.
While basing traits on specific things that happen in battle would be better for the storytelling aspect of things, I think it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to make the gameplay work well.

A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
I am very much in favor of this.
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 03, 2019, 07:13:23 PM
This looks very cool! I'm going to start a new game with this and see how it goes.

Edit:

Oof. I will say, going through a few battles taking 0 hull damage and smashing enemies, it is a bit of a kick in the pants to have the first trait be negative. Ah well, will keep playing!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 04, 2019, 12:25:16 PM
...
A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
I am very much in favor of this.
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

Kind of, but not really. If a player gets their first trait bad... they should 100% scrap the ship for supplies, or relegate it to unofficered suicide duty. At least in the early-mid game when the player has a good supply of ships. There isn't really a reason to keep it at that point, its a permanent D mod that gives no supply cost reduction. If the 'bad' traits were more 'neutral' (ie they have some bad and some good mixed) then this wouldn't be the case.

It would probably be quite a bit of work to retweak all of them in this way though.

Maybe you could actually add supply cost reductions for negative traits? That would make them still permanent D mods, but at least they would come with the same benefits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zhentar on May 04, 2019, 12:34:24 PM
Some trait balance notes:

* Agile is really insignificant relative to other traits. At Legendary, it's a 10% maneuverability bonus, making it 1/5th of Evasive Action level 1 (and actually not even that, because Evasive Action maneuverability applies double to turn acceleration), while many other traits are on par with level 2 or level 3 skills.
* Turret durability and turn rate also seem disproportionately low, thought I don't think the margin is as large as agile
* Logistics mods like fuel & cargo capacity range from completely irrelevant to make-or-break, depending on the ship's base capacity. This is particularly significant for tankers & freighters, since it can make them dramatically better/worse at their one & only job, and they are cheap to replace until you get the lucky trait draw. I think flat, ship class-scaled bonuses would work a lot better. (and perhaps non-zero minimum thresholds before they can be applied at all)


Aside from that, the trait chance for reserved civilian ships is waaaay too high. I've got a fleet full of Legendary tugs, and they're still pulling >100% new trait chance from some battles. I think the multiplier could stand to be dropped down to 15%-20%, and more importantly, I think the trait chance should be clamped to 100% before applying that multiplier.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zhentar on May 04, 2019, 12:58:18 PM
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

There's a weakness with change 4: the order of traits is fixed, so even if it gives you good/bad traits to balance them out, the ones you got first will always be more significant than the ones trying to balance them out (until you push them all up to Legendary, I suppose)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 04, 2019, 01:00:44 PM
Quick a quick check: is the number of traits you can get limited? Because I have a a ship with 2-2-2-4 traits now.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on May 04, 2019, 01:24:42 PM
While basing traits on specific things that happen in battle would be better for the storytelling aspect of things, I think it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to make the gameplay work well.

You mean that when it becomes too granular, there would be incentives to do play in a weird way to get optimal chances at good traits, like all the Elder Scrolls player skill-levelling-by-usage shenanigans?

Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

It would probably be even more frustrating to be punished by the RNG if you know you have a higher chance of getting bad traits after a string of good ones, especially in the endgame portion you mentioned when ideally the player is trying to roll perfect ships. Although knowing you are more likely to get good traits after a string of bad ones would soften the blow.

I'm not sure I can clearly explain my thinking, but:

Overall, your change would work out to roughly similar end results (at max traits, most ships have a list of upsides and downsides), but the in-game experience of playing the game means that you get each trait change one by one, so it feels more like you are getting punished by the RNG when you get a bad trait. Under default .ini settings which players may not look at and hcange, this may be quite frustrating.

I personally like the idea of having fewer traits, but with upsides and downsides, because then it would soften the blow of winning/losing the RNG roll at every step.

If each trait has a hardcoded upside and downside, the upsides and downsides could also be more thematic (although perhaps then each ship will have fewer individual traits):

E.g. "the [HMS Invincible]'s crew is obsessed with gunnery speed, to the extent that they stack ready ammo outside of the magazine and leave anti-flash doors open. +rate of fire, -hull integrity"

And narratively it would feel more like a specialisation or a character quirk. Some traits would be generally good and others generally bad (there would also still be room for purely good/bad traits - perhaps more strongly tied to very good/bad performance?) so you could still assign traits based on the positive performance of the ship, but it would be fuzzier and less a clear cut win/loss when the dice roll doesn't go your way.

Maybe you could actually add supply cost reductions for negative traits? That would make them still permanent D mods, but at least they would come with the same benefits.

That might sometimes be unthematic though, although it might sometimes be very thematic (lazy crew: might get -max CR, supply costs reduced :p !).

Generally, I don't think that bad traits should push towards just being unremovable d-mods, especially if you consider the experience for one-off unique ships, like IBBs/AE Vow/BB Sparrowhawk.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 04, 2019, 03:03:41 PM
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions! I'm glad you guys are enjoying it  :D

Avoiding Bad Traits
I've received a LOT of good feedback about this (both here and on Discord), and I've given quite a bit of thought to figuring out how best to improve the system. So here's a rough idea of what I have in mind:
  • Ships that deal enough hull damage in combat will have a reduced chance of getting a bad trait.
  • Ships that take very little hull damage in battle will not get bad defense traits for that battle.
  • Likewise, ships that do enough damage will not get bad weapon traits.
  • Ships will be more likely to get new negative traits the more positive traits they already have, and vice versa.
  • Ships that require crew will be able to get traits, just not ones related to crew (maybe some new AI related ones instead)
I also need to write up a clear and detailed description of how the system works for the FAQ.
[...]
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

I think the general idea is to make the player feel he has some degree of control over what happens. Just enough so that getting a bad trait results in a "hm, that makes sense for this ship", as opposed to "%$&!( this RNG!". The first trait I got was on a Onslaught XIV that I used to solo a pirate armada taking no damage in the process. The trait I got: -armor. Needless to say it resulted in "load last save". When ships pick up bad traits (which I think they should to avoid massive power creep), they should not be the ones that break the ship completely. I don't know if Combat Analytics could be in integrated into how this mod counts progress, but it can gather quite a lot of data.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 04, 2019, 04:16:11 PM
Doubtful crew and a negative trait on my new flagship I took minor (4%) hull damage in a very large fight after murdering an entire pirate armada. Thats... really rough. The optimal play here is to immediately scrap this ship for supplies, as its of a type that my single colony can make more of. This is despite the fact that I did really well in that battle and now have a bit of an emotional attachment to the ship.

The changes you've proposed are a good start to avoid the extreme annoyance that the current system has, but... I just don't see how bad traits (permanent D mods that cannot be removed) can stay in in the current form.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: solardawning on May 04, 2019, 05:16:53 PM
Maybe make the bad traits like D-mods; have them be able to removed w/high cost at a shipyard, while keeping positive traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 06, 2019, 02:11:44 PM
Ok, so I've still got a lot of work left to do before I can release an update, but I thought I'd let you guys know about the changes so far:
Quote
ADDITIONS
   New trait type: Dutiful/Obstinate Crew - affects chance of improving loyalty.
   Added support for ships with no crew requirement, including renamed crew traits (e.g. "Resilient Automated Systems" instead of "Determined Crew")
   Clicking the ship icon of a reputation change notification will now open up the refit screen for that ship

FIXES
   Fixed trait limit not being applied (by default there should never be more than 2 traits per tier). Existing ships with more than 2 traits per tier should be fixed automatically
   Fixed removal of pre-existing duplicate trait types not working
   Fixed trait effects not applying to ships in storage
   Fixed mothballed ships being able to earn traits
   Corrected spelling of "Volitile Flux Core" to "Volatile Flux Core"

REPUTATION GROWTH CHANGES
   Reworked calculation for chance of getting positive vs negative traits
   Ships that take less than 5% total hull damage in battle will not get a bad defense trait for that battle
   Ships that deal more deployment-cost worth of damage than their own cost-to-deploy will not get a bad offensive trait for that battle
   Civilian ships are now far less likely to gain new traits beyond "Notable" tier
   Normalized loyalty increase chances. It's easier to improve loyalty at low loyalty levels now, but still difficult to get max loyalty

TRAIT BASE EFFECT BALANCE
   Agile/Clunky increased from 1 to 3 (maneuverability)
   Fast/Slow Turret Gyros increased from 3 to 4 (weapon turn rate)
   Robust/Glitchy increased from 2 to 3 (EMP resistance)
   Durable/Fragile Mounts increased from 3 to 4 (weapon durability)
   Durable/Fragile Engines increased from 3 to 4 (engine durability)
   Skilled/Incompetent Engineers increased from 2 to 3 (repair rate)
   Removed Meager Fuel Tanks and Meager Cargo Hold traits, which should automatically be removed from existing games on load
   Changed Ample Fuel Tanks and Ample Cargo Holds to a flat bonus based on hull size


This is the new calculation for the chance of getting positive vs negative traits:

bonusChance = 0.5 + battleDifficulty*0.25 - damageTaken + max(0, damageDealt-1)*0.5
where:
bonusChance is the Chance to get a Good Trait.
(0 means 0%, 1 means 100%)
battleDifficulty is a ratio of total supply deployment cost for both sides (not including ships deployed during pursuit).
(e.g. 1.5 if the enemy spends 12 supplies deploying ships and you spend 8.  12 / 8 = 1.5)
(If Ruthless Sector (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15279.0) is also being used, the Battle Difficulty it calculates will be used instead)

damageTaken is a fraction of total hull integrity.
(e.g. 0.2 for a ship that starts battle with 70% hull and ends with 50%.  0.7 - 0.5 = 0.2)
damage Dealt is deployment-cost worth of hull damage destroyed, divided by the ship's own deployment-cost.
(e.g. 1.5 for a ship that costs 4 supplies to deploy dealing 50% damage to a ship that costs 12 supplies to deploy.  12 * 0.5 / 4 = 1.5)
(max(x, y) means that the lesser of x and y will be chosen.  max(3, 2) = 3)



Change 4
Ships will be more likely to get new negative traits the more positive traits they already have, and vice versa.
You guys brought up some good points about the disadvantages of this change. I'm no longer planning on adding it. I found stormbringer951's argument about how this mechanic would be perceived by players who don't know about it to be particularly compelling. If I can't think of a better way to accomplish similar goals I might add it as an opt-in setting.

Traits with mixed bonuses and maluses
If I were to implement something like this, it would have to be by forcing traits to come in pairs; one good and one bad. Having manually defined bonus/malus combinations with an explanation-story for each one would be very cool, but it would require completely remaking starship legends, and it would take a great deal of time to make enough traits like that to create as much variety in trait combinations as there is now.

Purely bad traits being annoying, scrapping ships because of them, and suggestions to be able to remove them
I know it's annoying to get a debuff on a ship, but I think debuffs (real ones that aren't mitigated by buffs) are absolutely necessary for balancing out the potential power creep made possible by this mod. This mod will always support the option to prevent ships from getting negative traits, but I will always try to balance the default settings in such a way that most ships in the fleet of a player of average skill will be roughly equivalent in power to what they would be with no traits.

While basing traits on specific things that happen in battle would be better for the storytelling aspect of things, I think it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to make the gameplay work well.

You mean that when it becomes too granular, there would be incentives to do play in a weird way to get optimal chances at good traits, like all the Elder Scrolls player skill-levelling-by-usage shenanigans?
Yes, exactly. As well as the time it would take to track all the necessary data (I would basically need to re-implement most of the functionality of Combat Analytics)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 06, 2019, 03:40:54 PM
These changes look really good - I especially like the incorporation of battle difficulty and damage dealt, as this supports getting positive traits with aggressive playstyles.

While I think mixed traits would be the best solution, I do agree that it would be a pretty enormous amount of work!

The issue with perverse incentives and scrapping ships with negative traits is more an issue for the first trait that a ship receives, not so much later ones. This is because: 1) its always the strongest trait, so will keep getting worse. 2) Little experience has been 'sunk' into the ship, so there is very little cost to scrapping in terms of building ships with good perks. 3) The ship is worse than a stock version, so replacing it is a net power upgrade.

Perhaps there could be a tweak to point 1, where which traits become promoted also depends on how things have gone? This introduces further complications, but might help.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ranakastrasz on May 06, 2019, 04:02:56 PM
My views may be warped, and I haven't played seriously in a while, but I don't find ships so trivially cheap and easy to find that you can just scrap a ship and expect to get a new one. Generally cash is too tight for that. Also you can't often find a new ship of the same type, at least for the really good ones you want.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 06, 2019, 04:39:11 PM
My views may be warped, and I haven't played seriously in a while, but I don't find ships so trivially cheap and easy to find that you can just scrap a ship and expect to get a new one. Generally cash is too tight for that. Also you can't often find a new ship of the same type, at least for the really good ones you want.

To be honest its probably my views being warped by colonies and ship costs. I tend to have a colony early, pretty much as soon as I've found one of the three blueprint packs. At that stage of the game I'm still using a lot of destroyers, and replacing one of those is only like 20k-ish depending on model. Especially since you can strip any valuable weapons off the old one before relegating it to non-officered AI duty or sitting in port or scrap.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 07, 2019, 02:46:24 AM
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?

If a tiny ship kills a big one and get "Giantslayer" does it need a +x% bonus damage agaisnt bigger ships? They very fact it has a history of killing bigger ship allready makes it valuable.

It's an interesting question, becasue when you combine all the mods, bonuses, EXP, skilsl and everything, the power creep is very real simple becasue its all adds up.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on May 07, 2019, 10:40:37 AM
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?

If a tiny ship kills a big one and get "Giantslayer" does it need a +x% bonus damage agaisnt bigger ships? They very fact it has a history of killing bigger ship allready makes it valuable.

It's an interesting question, becasue when you combine all the mods, bonuses, EXP, skilsl and everything, the power creep is very real simple becasue its all adds up.
Yes because that would be a "negative trait" in many people's eyes. Hell, many would hate it more due to the fact that they are getting punished, by getting a trait without stat boosts, for doing something hard and succeeding.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 07, 2019, 01:24:28 PM
Thanks for the option of preventing ships from getting bad traits. While some buffs are good, one critical bad trait can make a ship permanently tainted to me, cast into the darkest depths of colonial storage. It might be petty, but I can't helping. Having the perfect officer skills, fleet skills, (lack of) d-mods, hullmods, just to get one bad trait and trip yourself at the finish feels not good. I guess that I will just abstain from using this mod, even though it's a cool idea and implementation is solid.
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?
That sounds like a job for a mod that tracks your ships with some degree of accuracy, not this one. I also suspect that non-statbased traits would defeat the point of this mod as well.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 07, 2019, 07:16:55 PM
The issue with perverse incentives and scrapping ships with negative traits is more an issue for the first trait that a ship receives, not so much later ones. This is because: 1) its always the strongest trait, so will keep getting worse.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this mod and have only been following it via this thread.

An idea to specifically handle this issue with negative traits would be to make the first traits not always the largest, instead picking a random trait to enhance upon ranking up. To do this though, you would have to allow for traits to skip ranks, which may feel too unpredictable. I believe the logic for this would be:

There would definitely still be a point where scrapping the ship is for the best, but it should be after a few more traits are added so that you get a better overall picture of what the ship would/could look like, instead of being sure of its one greatest flaw. A potential downside would be seeing a Paragon that you've been building up for a while have a minor quirk of reduced range turn into legendarily reduced range. Applying similar limitations from choosing new traits to choosing traits to enhance should make this more reasonable for players, but require more data tracking. Without knowing how your code is set up, I would guess that having "normal", "excellentOffence", "excellentDefense", and "excellentOffence/Defense" buckets of XP gained would allow you to track overall success with a ship for the current selection limitations.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SapphireSage on May 07, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?

Although like SCC stated earlier that it would require a mod that's able to keep better track of a ships actions in combat/campaign I certainly would enjoy a mod that gave titles based on actions without buffs/nerfs as it would prevent power creep and even a negative title for my 5 D-mod cannon fodders could be interesting to have in its history if I restored it and give it greater purpose as a reminder of its unfortunate history.

As cool and interesting as this mod is to create more unique story-based ships I do fear about the resulting power creep from giving straight buffs to the player with no compensation to AI.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 07, 2019, 10:07:15 PM
I've received a lot of suggestions about ways to reset/modify/respec traits, so I've been thinking a lot lately about the problems associated with traits being permanent, and trying to figure out a good way to make them more flexible without introducing too much power creep. After hours of pacing, this is what I came up with:
If all goes well, this mechanic would give players agency in 'fixing' their ships without granting too much control over trait outcomes. It would make it possible (although very difficult) to redeem even ships with 8 negative traits. It would also introduce a dynamic element that I think would reflect the reputation theme very well.

Let me know what you guys think.

These changes look really good - I especially like the incorporation of battle difficulty and damage dealt, as this supports getting positive traits with aggressive playstyles.
Ok, I'm glad you think so. I think you've brought up some serious concerns, so it's reassuring that you agree with the changes so far  :)
Battle difficulty is already a factor in the current build, btw. It's just... not well documented.

The issue with perverse incentives and scrapping ships with negative traits is more an issue for the first trait that a ship receives, not so much later ones. This is because: 1) its always the strongest trait, so will keep getting worse. 2) Little experience has been 'sunk' into the ship, so there is very little cost to scrapping in terms of building ships with good perks. 3) The ship is worse than a stock version, so replacing it is a net power upgrade.
So all three of those points are actually by design. Here's my reasoning for thinking they're good things:

Must everything be stat-based?
I'm afraid so, for the reasons stated above, as well as others. I don't think traits would have enough of a point to them without effects. I do think a mod that keeps track of a ship's feats that way would be very cool, but I don't think starship legends is a good fit.

While some buffs are good, one critical bad trait can make a ship permanently tainted to me, cast into the darkest depths of colonial storage. It might be petty, but I can't helping. Having the perfect officer skills, fleet skills, (lack of) d-mods, hullmods, just to get one bad trait and trip yourself at the finish feels not good.
Yeah, I hear you. I know there are people who will hate mechanics that force sub-optimal stats no matter what. This mod can't be for everyone, but I do want to make it work well for as many people as I can (within reason).

@BringerofBabes
First of all; welcome to the forum! :D
I wish I had read your suggestion hours ago. It might've gotten me thinking along the right track. It does seem like a good way to prevent the oldest traits from always being the most significant, but I don't really think that's such a problem to begin with (see my response to Thaago above)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 08, 2019, 03:38:53 PM
I'm kinda torn. On one side I understand people who want everything to be PERFECT.
On the other, perfection is boring and unrealistic. It's like making a D&D character with 18 in every score.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on May 08, 2019, 10:28:27 PM
I'm kinda torn. On one side I understand people who want everything to be PERFECT.
On the other, perfection is boring and unrealistic. It's like making a D&D character with 18 in every score.
If I wanted realism, I'd play a SIM or *gasp* walk outside.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 09, 2019, 12:03:00 AM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 09, 2019, 03:57:24 AM
I'm kinda torn. On one side I understand people who want everything to be PERFECT.
On the other, perfection is boring and unrealistic. It's like making a D&D character with 18 in every score.
If I wanted realism, I'd play a SIM or *gasp* walk outside.

Not an argument.

As much as I understand the desire for everything to be perfect (as my OCD kicks in), I feel that desire is a character flaw that prevents enjoyment of the game, and moves it further away from a challenge and more into a power fantasy.
The idea of a ship and crew without any flaws whatsoever is so Mary Sue-ish.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 09, 2019, 03:31:43 PM
O_O That battle report is a work of art! Bravo!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Alex on May 09, 2019, 03:57:48 PM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.

Niiice! Awesome to see someone using the "large intel description" functionality :)

Just a few random layout/formatting thoughts, if you don't mind - obviously no obligation to actually do it that way, and it's all minor stuff.

Section headings: for left-aligned ones, I'd add one empty space as a prefix to the text. I think I've done that in places in vanilla, though at this point I'm fairly sure all the section headings are centered.

After a section heading, the standard padding is 10 pixels. Same between paragraphs. (In some cases, vanilla will use a padding of 5 instead; that's generally old code and I'm cleaning it up as I become aware of the various places. One example of this is the various terrain tooltips; I need to go through 'em and fix this up for consistency.)

Between list items, the standard padding is 3.

Occasionally, there's a case where a padding of 10 is too much, and 3 is too little. In that case, a padding of 5 is used. This is usually when there's a line of text describing the contents of an indented list that follows, e.g:
This list has 3 items: <followed by a padding of 5>
     Item 1 <followed by a padding of 3>
     Item 2 <followed by a padding of 3>
     Item 3 <followed by a padding of 10>

BaseIntelPlugin.BULLET and BaseIntelPlugin.INDENT are the standard indentations for list items, if those are needed.

Edit: I should say, I hope this doesn't come across as critical! Just wanted to get the info out there, in case it's helpful.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nick XR on May 09, 2019, 10:56:43 PM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.

Super impressive!  I'd never considered using the Intel screen before to display data.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on May 10, 2019, 04:55:35 AM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.

Super impressive!  I'd never considered using the Intel screen before to display data.

So, feature request for Combat Analytics? :P
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 10, 2019, 06:28:08 AM
@Thaago, Nick XR: Glad you guys like it  :D

@Alex: That's a lot of very useful information. Thank you! I had a lot of questions about conventions while putting that together, but ran out of time before I could go digging for examples. I shall conform!
So, since we're on the topic, is there any way to arrange a ship list to the left of a paragraph? I've been meaning to experiment with some hackery to try placing two tool tips side by side.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 10, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
Any chance of an option to disable dynamic trait adjustment / getting mixed traits for us powergamers who wanna maximise stats / boosts please!?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Alex on May 10, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
@Alex: That's a lot of very useful information. Thank you! I had a lot of questions about conventions while putting that together, but ran out of time before I could go digging for examples.

Awesome!

So, since we're on the topic, is there any way to arrange a ship list to the left of a paragraph? I've been meaning to experiment with some hackery to try placing two tool tips side by side.

Yeah, that's exactly how I'd do it. In the context of that screen, "tooltip" just basically means "any UI element", so putting it together out of a ton of smaller "tooltips" is an entirely valid approach.

addUIElement() returns a PositionAPI, which you can use to arrange things how you want to. You can also create a custom panel and add it using the addComponent() method, if you want a larger independent grouping of tooltips (roughly equivalent, to, say, a JPanel). But, yeah, tooltips are the basic building block.


But, hmm. This may run into problems when using the thing with a scroller, since scrollers are per-tooltip. What you'd need to do, I think, is this:

Code: java
/* this is the scrolling container */
TooltipMakerAPI outer = panel.createUIElement(width, height, true);

CustomPanelAPI inner = panel.createCustomPanel(width, height, null);
outer.addCustom(inner, 0);

TooltipMakerAPI t1 = inner.createUIElement(width, height, false);
/* do stuff with t1 */
inner.addUIElement(t1);
/* and so on, keeping track of the total height of the stuff added */

outer.getPosition().setSize(width, totalHeight);
/* do this last, since this is where it'll wrap it with a scroller
   based on the height we just set */
panel.addUIElement(outer).inTL(0, 0);

I think that would work. The reason "outer" needs to be a TooltipMakerAPI (instead of a CustomPanelAPI) is that the addUIElement() (which takes a TooltipMakerAPI as a parameter) is currently the only way to wrap stuff in a scroller here. Hope this makes sense! Let me know if you do decide to try this and run into trouble.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: xenoargh on May 11, 2019, 04:17:09 PM
This looks great!  I'll have to give it a whirl as I'm breaking things testing my projects :)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 11, 2019, 10:11:05 PM
@Alex: Awesome. Thanks again for the help! Looking forward to giving that a shot  :)

Any chance of an option to disable dynamic trait adjustment / getting mixed traits for us powergamers who wanna maximise stats / boosts please!?
The options file is pretty flexible, and it should be getting better after the next update. I want this mod to be very flexible, so hopefully there will be a way to make it fit your playstyle well.

This looks great!  I'll have to give it a whirl as I'm breaking things testing my projects :)
You might want to wait a few days! There are a lot of unreleased improvements that I don't have time to finish up at the moment. I'm hoping to have an update out by next weekend.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 12, 2019, 02:49:20 AM
This is going to become a "required" mod. It's almost a work of art.
Some observations from using 1.0.3 for a few hours:

Combat ships which are routinely deployed get a mix of traits.
Combat frieghters which are sometimes deployed get a mix of traits.
Non-combat ships which are never deployed get mostly negative traits, and they seem to gain them at a similar rate as deployed ships.

Possibly look into having the rate of trait gaining for non-deployed ships vastly reduced.
Doesn't feel good getting a ton of negative campaign modifiers for using a class of ships as intended.
As counter balance, could possibly vastly increase the chance of traits appearing if force-deployed in a pursuit mission, or if CR-burned by hyperspace storms.

-----

Ship tech families seem to behave differently, and I'm not sure if this is intended or not.

High-tech and Midline ships, and all carriers almost always get a mix of traits with more positive than negative as they're either tanking damage on shields or avoiding it altogether.
They also get lots of loyalty boosts due to not taking damage.

Phase ships seem to be all-or-nothing. They either get a roll of mostly positive traits, or mostly negative ones.
And tbh, that actually seems about right for something technologically fickle as these things.
(I have a pirate Shade set up for EMP support and it gets constant 'bad' rolls for everything, and I can't bring myself to get rid of it because it's hillarious.)

Low-tech ships though.... Being an armour tank seems like it's quite disliked by this mod, as constantly taking damage means that traits tend to be more negative.
And crew loyalty sits firmly in the toilet because the ship is designed to take all the punches so nothing else has to. Which is not really helpful as extra CR decay is a hard no for safety override ships when you cannot easily replace them.

Possibly look into having each tech familiy respond to taking damage differently.
High-tech ships - very damage averse, taking damage has good chance to apply negative trait and badly affect crew loyalty.
Midline ships - somewhat damage averse, taking damage has moderate chance to apply negative trait and badly affect crew loyalty.
Low-tech ships - largely indifferent to damage, taking damage has small chance to apply negative trait and badly affect crew loyalty.
Phase ships - current rules

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DatonKallandor on May 12, 2019, 08:48:05 AM
This is incredible. It's frankly insane how good this is. If it was a thing Starsector did, I'd advocate for Legends or something similar to it to become a standard Starsector feature. It has all the benefits of the old veterancy system (a fleet that becomes better as it fights, with losses reducing that progression, a feeling of having ships be "yours") without the fiddlyness - and a whole load of extra flavor on top.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 12, 2019, 12:22:30 PM
Not knowing what improvements Sundog currently has on deck (this may already be solved!), the damage taken calculation could be based on either damage that has not been mitigated by armor, or based on damage taken vs overall hull available, so that you only get penalized for taking too much of a beating, rather than the beating you were designed to take. Both should scale well with ships that have more shields than armor as well.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Jonlissla on May 12, 2019, 12:26:20 PM
Like others have already said, it's crazy how good this mod fits the game. I'm hoping Alex does something similar to the game.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 12, 2019, 12:34:32 PM
I hope not. There's many enough factors when trying to get optimal performance out of a ship, I don't need a trait popping out of the blue and ruining a crucial stat. I'd much rather have it stay optional.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 12, 2019, 02:31:01 PM
I hope not. There's many enough factors when trying to get optimal performance out of a ship, I don't need a trait popping out of the blue and ruining a crucial stat. I'd much rather have it stay optional.

I'm with this - while I really like this mod and plan on playing with it, I would prefer it stay a mod. Getting good traits is going to be based on difficulty a lot it seems (which I really like), but that means its somewhat new player unfriendly. If I were struggling with combat, it wouldn't be very nice for the game to insult my barely won victory with losses in loyalty and bad traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SapphireSage on May 12, 2019, 03:10:04 PM
I hope not. There's many enough factors when trying to get optimal performance out of a ship, I don't need a trait popping out of the blue and ruining a crucial stat. I'd much rather have it stay optional.

I'm with this - while I really like this mod and plan on playing with it, I would prefer it stay a mod. Getting good traits is going to be based on difficulty a lot it seems (which I really like), but that means its somewhat new player unfriendly. If I were struggling with combat, it wouldn't be very nice for the game to insult my barely won victory with losses in loyalty and bad traits.

Thirded, I would not want this in the base game, at least just copied wholesale (Though I wouldn't mind titles for my ships based on performance, just no buffs). Without significant changes to endgame, it would make it even easier still while the potential negatives could make early game harder.

Secondly, officers already do something like this to a lesser extent (since you can steer their level ups and pick their personality, maybe that can be something to help against the RNG for Legends), but officers are optional and limited in scope unless you choose to focus them. With RNG applying to both officers and ships, it would just make the game feel more "all about luck" and less about the full player agency we have now when it comes to the ships and fleet as a whole.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DatonKallandor on May 12, 2019, 05:30:39 PM
I just think the whole "full player agency" is not as desireable as it seems. The endgame of Starsector is entirely solved or solveable. And it's the same, every time. Some RNG, some flavor, is exactly what it needs. Some that makes a player fleet of x ships different from an AI fleet of the same x ships. Personality. The old veterancy system kind of did it - but this is much better than that. The stat boosts are small enough in the early game to not wreck ships anyway - and by the time you get to the big numbers you can easily replace ships if you really insist on being "optimal".

Obviously, a proper vanilla supported implementation of it might smooth the edges down somewhat, but the core is incredible and exactly what Starsector is missing (it's essentially procedural loot, but less fiddly).
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Null Ganymede on May 12, 2019, 08:03:46 PM
Being penalized for doing poorly is pretty consistent with the unforgiving supply/fuel grind new players run into. Compared to that, the performance penalties are minor.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Starship Legends 1.0.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: errorgance on May 13, 2019, 03:03:57 PM
I like the concept, but I must raise my eyebrows at permanent negative effects, that is a serious problem which needs a method of redress, even the dreaded orange bars have a method for repair.
I'd like to see a system for negative reputation/crew moral to improve as well, such as switching out captains (or putting an officer into a ship without one to restore discipline) and/or multiple successful battles where the crews moral can improve.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Starship Legends 1.0.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 14, 2019, 02:32:47 PM
I like the concept, but I must raise my eyebrows at permanent negative effects, that is a serious problem which needs a method of redress, even the dreaded orange bars have a method for repair.
Traits will be less permanent in the next update.

I'd like to see a system for negative reputation/crew moral to improve as well, such as switching out captains (or putting an officer into a ship without one to restore discipline) and/or multiple successful battles where the crews moral can improve.
Loyalty is how morale is represented in this mod, and it does improve or worsen a ship's traits. I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting, but it seems pretty similar (at least in terms of the end result) to this work-in-progress feature (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.msg247896#msg247896).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 14, 2019, 09:23:38 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.0 (BETA)

Fixed an error caused by crew loyalty changes without new traits. The error was introduced in the last patch. Sorry about that!
(This should be compatible with previous saves, but please let me know if you find out otherwise.)

ADDITIONS
   Instead of notifications, a battle report is now created that details all reputation changes from the battle
   A ship's traits can now change positions or even be removed based on how well they perform in combat
   Reputations can now be completely reset by mothballing a ship for 30 consecutive days per trait
   Added 2 new levels of loyalty and reworked the loyalty fluctuation system
   New trait type: Dutiful/Obstinate Crew - affects chance of improving loyalty
   Added support for ships with no crew requirement, including renamed crew traits (e.g. "Cooperative AI Persona" instead of "Dutiful Crew")

FIXES
   Fixed trait limit not being applied (by default there should never be more than 2 traits per tier). Existing ships with more than 2 traits per tier should be fixed automatically
   Ship restoration no longer removes reputation hullmods (fixed by Starsector version 0.9.1a)
   Fixed removal of pre-existing duplicate trait types not working
   Fixed trait effects not applying to ships in storage
   Fixed mothballed ships being able to earn traits
   Fixed issue that occasionally allowed reputation changes to persist after reloading
   Corrected spelling of "Volitile Flux Core" to "Volatile Flux Core"

REPUTATION GROWTH CHANGES
   Reworked calculation for chance of getting positive vs negative traits (see FAQs for the exact formula)
   Ships that take less than 5% total hull damage in battle will not get a bad defense trait for that battle
   Ships that deal more deployment-cost worth of damage than their own cost-to-deploy will not get a bad offensive trait for that battle
   Civilian ships are now far less likely to gain new traits beyond "Notable" tier

TRAIT BASE EFFECT BALANCE
   Agile/Clunky increased from 1 to 3 (maneuverability)
   Durable/Fragile increased from 1 to 2 (hull integrity)
   Fast/Slow Turret Gyros increased from 3 to 4 (weapon turn rate)
   Robust/Glitchy increased from 2 to 3 (EMP resistance)
   Durable/Fragile Mounts increased from 3 to 4 (weapon durability)
   Durable/Fragile Engines increased from 3 to 4 (engine durability)
   Skilled/Incompetent Engineers increased from 2 to 3 (repair rate)
   Removed Meager Fuel Tanks and Meager Cargo Hold traits, which should automatically be removed from existing games on load
   Changed Ample Fuel Tanks and Ample Cargo Holds to a flat bonus based on hull size
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Oblivion on May 14, 2019, 09:56:16 PM
Would this be compatible with 0.9a?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 14, 2019, 10:26:23 PM
Very cool! I'll add it to my next new game and give overly critical responses. :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 14, 2019, 10:34:41 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.1 (BETA)

Fixed an error caused by crew loyalty changes without new traits. The error was introduced in the last patch. Sorry about that!

Fixed issue preventing loss of loyalty in most cases


Would this be compatible with 0.9a?
I think so.

Very cool! I'll add it to my next new game and give overly critical responses. :D
Good!  :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 15, 2019, 05:11:42 AM
Suggestion: Add a 0 OP hull mod to flag ships to keep reputation while mothballed, call it "Museum Ship" or something.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2019, 01:00:29 PM
Suggestion: Add a 0 OP hull mod to flag ships to keep reputation while mothballed, call it "Museum Ship" or something.
So one of the changes between 0.9 and 0.9.1 is that you can put ships in storage without mothballing them, allowing you to store a ship for any length of time without resetting its reputation. Because of this, I don't think such a flag is necessary.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2019, 03:00:43 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.2 (BETA)

Fixed failure to properly handle some unconventional battles (automated defenses, stations, scripted events, etc.)
Added a description of what a trait does in the notes section of battle reports when a new trait is gained
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 15, 2019, 03:38:30 PM
So one of the changes between 0.9 and 0.9.1 is that you can put ships in storage without mothballing them, allowing you to store a ship for any length of time without resetting its reputation. Because of this, I don't think such a flag is necessary.

Oh, huh, I must have missed that one.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 15, 2019, 11:43:19 PM
"A ship's traits can now change positions or even be removed based on how well they perform in combat"

Is there an option to disable / adjust likelihood of this in settings at all?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 16, 2019, 01:16:44 AM
Being penalized for doing poorly is pretty consistent with the unforgiving supply/fuel grind new players run into. Compared to that, the performance penalties are minor.

This. Laste game fleets guzzle so much supplies and fuel, that a planet cannot provide for them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SafariJohn on May 16, 2019, 06:20:18 AM
This is a very cool mod.

I wanted to check out your after battle report code, but unfortunately you haven't included your source code and your repository is out of date.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 16, 2019, 07:32:31 AM
Really impressed with your take on 'feature' mods. Keep doing what you're doing.

I noticed carriers show up as 0% damage dealt a lot. Are fighters factored into the equation and just not shown?

Edit: Found a small bug. See attached screenshot. My 3 Paragons apparently inflicted no damage even though they were the only participants.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/1xU3cEK.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 16, 2019, 01:17:25 PM
"A ship's traits can now change positions or even be removed based on how well they perform in combat"

Is there an option to disable / adjust likelihood of this in settings at all?
Nope, but that's a good idea. I'll add it to the next release.

I wanted to check out your after battle report code, but unfortunately you haven't included your source code and your repository is out of date.
Just updated it. Sorry about that! I'll have to add that to my update checklist.

Really impressed with your take on 'feature' mods. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thanks, I plan to! Although my next project is likely to be a much smaller, higher quality version of my old faction mod, rather than another feature mod.

I noticed carriers show up as 0% damage dealt a lot. Are fighters factored into the equation and just not shown?
At one point I had fighter damage being attributed to their carriers, but I guess I must've broken it. I saw my condor's bombers hit hull in my last battle, but the report is showing 0% damage dealt. It ended up with a negative trait too, dammit...

Edit: Found a small bug. See attached screenshot. My 3 Paragons apparently inflicted no damage even though they were the only participants.
Well that's no good. Thanks for the report.
Was this using starship legends 1.1.2?
Was it a scripted battle, like the red planet encounter or tech cache?
Was there anything else that might've been unusual about that battle?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 16, 2019, 03:29:56 PM
Yeah, using version 1.1.2.

It was a regular battle against a high-level Remnant fleet. It's happened once or twice since against other fleets too. Once against a fleeing pirate fleet that I pursued.

I also noticed after combat that my two Afflictors showed 2% and -2% sustained, respectively.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 16, 2019, 11:10:54 PM
New Known Issues:
I'm hoping to get these both fixed soon. Hopefully tomorrow!

I also noticed after combat that my two Afflictors showed 2% and -2% sustained, respectively.
Hmm. Were they deployed? Sustained damage is checked by comparing hull level before and after a battle, so it might be possible for a ship to have "negative damage" if it's being repaired.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 17, 2019, 01:48:26 AM
I think they were, but I'll wait and see if it happens again.

Edit: Can confirm that in a battle vs. a pirate station, even though I let the game end combat instead of going by the menu, none of my ships were awarded any damage inflicted.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 17, 2019, 02:24:10 PM
Can confirm the bug with damage dealt - making my way through the tutorial and so far none of the fights have any damage reported as being done.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 17, 2019, 06:59:53 PM
Edit: Can confirm that in a battle vs. a pirate station, even though I let the game end combat instead of going by the menu, none of my ships were awarded any damage inflicted.
Ok. I'm going to have rework how the script decides when to figure out how much damage was dealt anyway, so hopefully that fix will address that issue as well (fingers crossed it won't cause any new issues).

Can confirm the bug with damage dealt - making my way through the tutorial and so far none of the fights have any damage reported as being done.
Wait, so are you getting damage reports in the tutorial at all? In my testing they didn't show up. I assumed all intel notifications were suppressed during the tutorial.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 17, 2019, 07:56:53 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.3 (BETA)

Fixed occasional failure to record damage dealt after battle
Fixed failure to credit carriers with the damage dealt by their fighters
Fixed an error that would sometimes occur when a ship's reputation was cleared
Added setting - traitPositionChangeChanceMultiplier
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 17, 2019, 11:53:46 PM
Thanks so much for catering to us powergamers Sun!!!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 18, 2019, 05:24:46 AM
Everything is working well so far.

I was wondering.. since ships can lose a positive trait as result of bad performance instead of gaining a negative trait, could ships lose a negative trait for good performance? I have some phase ships that I've been grooming with massive damage output but they never seem to be able to lose the one negative trait each of them have.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 18, 2019, 07:53:13 AM
Thanks so much for catering to us powergamers Sun!!!  ;D
:D

Everything is working well so far.
That's a relief! Fixing the problem with damage dealt by fighters took far longer than I would've liked...

I was wondering.. since ships can lose a positive trait as result of bad performance instead of gaining a negative trait, could ships lose a negative trait for good performance?
Yes they can. I just added an entry to the FAQs about how trait prominence changes work.
Spoiler
How do I improve loyalty?
Loyalty is based on the bonus chance calculation.
If it is above 0.5, loyalty might increase, otherwise, it might decrease.
The further the bonus chance is from 0.5, the higher the likelihood that it will change.

When do traits change in prominence?
The chance of trait position changes is calculated the same way as loyalty (see above).
A ship needs at least 3 traits for prominence changes to be possible.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 18, 2019, 07:57:30 AM
The coolness of this mod has overmastered my capability to overstate.  Adding to game start.

I do tend to keep individual ships a long time in my fleets...even with d-mods.  I cannot wait to see what this does to my choice of keeping ships.

Dreaming:  Now, if the "combat chatter" mod would somehow synergize with this mod:  such that a given ship chatter would match up with what that ship's crew/captain likely would likely say...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 18, 2019, 08:20:02 AM
It'll be a buff if you win your engagements, but destroyed and repaired ships get bad traits far easier than you can get rid of them.
My custom settings which probably make things a little easier:

Code
"bonusChanceRandomness":0,
"traitChanceMultiplierForReservedCivilianShips":0.0,

Yes they can. I just added an entry to the FAQs about how trait prominence changes work.

Sweet. I'll have to work a little harder then.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 18, 2019, 08:55:54 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.4 (BETA)

Fixes a (harmless) error caused by harrying a fleet without engaging (and possibly other, similar, situations)


@eidolad: Thanks! Hope you like it. That would be a pretty cool integration with Combat Chatter.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 19, 2019, 02:19:55 AM
Anyone know what setting i would need to adjust to have each trait given be its best version so as to avoid +4% armour for 1 ship & +7% for another?

Many thanks
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 19, 2019, 04:33:12 AM
I would guess you have to set "effectMultiplier":10, on every tier.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 19, 2019, 05:25:24 AM
ah much appreciated schwartz, will giv tht a try.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 19, 2019, 07:25:41 AM
Known Issue: Damage still isn't always being recorded correctly. I need to do more testing to confirm, but it looks like damage is only awarded against recoverable enemy ships. I think this was introduced in the 1.1.3 patch due to the new way of detecting the end of battles. I'm hoping to get a patch out today.

Anyone know what setting i would need to adjust to have each trait given be its best version so as to avoid +4% armour for 1 ship & +7% for another?
Schwartz is correct. Trait effectiveness is also modified by officer loyalty. If you don't want it to be, you can set
the "trait_adjustment" column to 0 for each row in "/sun_sl/data/loyalty_levels.csv"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 19, 2019, 11:46:19 AM
Many thanks for makin this so end user adjustable!!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 19, 2019, 12:49:23 PM
As hard as I try, I can't get the negative traits to go away or even lessen in significance even though I have been diligent about only using these Afflictors when they can grab a solid plus.

On top of that, the negative trait has crept its way up the ladder without me ever having gotten a post-combat notification mentioning it. It's always another trait that gets buffed, yet this one has definitely moved as well. Is this working as intended? I.e. the negative trait was on 'well-known' level before I put the Afflictor aside and started only using it for bountiful chase scenarios. It should have only gotten better since then, but the trait got worse. This is with 0 randomness.

I'm not complaining if this is how it works, it just struck me as odd.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/UJLmBLE.png)
[close]

Come to think of it.. I've had situations where the post-combat log says trait X has improved, but when I look at the ship trait X is still on 'notable'. Edit: Caught it!

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/zwpKsKK.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 19, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
Many thanks for makin this so end user adjustable!!  ;D
You bet  :)
There have been plenty of times that I've been petty enough to shelve a mod or game just because there was one aspect of it that I couldn't "fix."

@Schwartz: So the way trait prominence changes work is basically by making the chosen trait swap places with one immediately above or below it, regardless of tier. So your overclocked targeting unit example would be working as intended if it was on the very bottom of the trait list before the prominence change. As for your Afflictor, negative traits can move up because positive ones move down, but that wouldn't apply here if it hasn't had any bad prominence changes. The only thing that would bump up that negative trait in that case is the addition of new traits. I'll pay closer attention while play-testing to see if I can catch a trait in the act of not doing what it says it's doing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 19, 2019, 05:31:39 PM
Yeah, the Afflictor has had 8 traits for a long time and the negative trait has moved up. So unless the trait right above it went down a level instead, I would have to have read about the negative trait being promoted.

Alright, I think I get how this works now. It's just a list of eight separated into groups of two. So doing well over a longer period of time should eventually replace all negative traits downward. It's a pretty neat system.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on May 19, 2019, 10:12:14 PM
There's something funky going on with the way damage is awarded after a single REDACTED station battle, I just defeated one with a fleet of four each Apogees, Atlases, and Herons, and I saw 438% damage awarded to a single Heron, although every ship obviously contributed. Let me know what you would like me to upload to help debug, although I do have ~10 other mods.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 20, 2019, 07:19:33 AM
It's just a list of eight separated into groups of two. So doing well over a longer period of time should eventually replace all negative traits downward.
Yep, exactly. Any ship that gets a bonusChance above 45% should have zero chance for a bad trait adjustment.

Let me know what you would like me to upload to help debug, although I do have ~10 other mods.
If I could get your log file (or the last few hundred lines of it from right after that fight) and a screenshot of your battle report it would be a great help. The cause of these damage reporting issues has proven to be pretty difficult to pin down...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Histidine on May 20, 2019, 08:31:01 AM
Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 20, 2019, 08:51:47 AM
It's not peak performance time, so.. I find even with a fiercely loyal crew the CR loss feels fast enough that I don't push my luck.

And generally when you do well and you only gather positive traits, they are overall quite powerful. It's not this specific one. I'd argue a legendary-level peak performane time boost is way better than crew level.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 20, 2019, 09:47:56 AM
How much do you all think starship legends (with default settings) affects the overall game difficulty for a player of average skill? I know that's hard to estimate considering how many of us are vets, but I'm just trying to get a better general idea.

Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Yeah, I think perhaps it is. I think I'll reduce it from 75% to 50%, which would double instead of quadruple operational time after PPT. It's supposed to be hard to get max loyalty. I think I'll also adjust loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference.

It's not peak performance time, so.. I find even with a fiercely loyal crew the CR loss feels fast enough that I don't push my luck.

And generally when you do well and you only gather positive traits, they are overall quite powerful. It's not this specific one. I'd argue a legendary-level peak performane time boost is way better than crew level.
I tend to think of PPT as more important than CR decay as well, which is part of how I justify high CR adjustments for loyalty. With the current settings, however, the operational time after PPT at "fiercely loyal" is double that of "loyal," which I think is a bit excessive.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 20, 2019, 10:15:34 AM
The problem is that skill is hard to quantify in a game where you can savescum. Let's assume the player is not a masochist and likes to win his engagements. Let's also assume that he can take the occasional friendly ship blowing up since in this version money comes easily and redoing fights is tedious.

This mod unfortunately has the side effect of long-lasting negatives applying to ship losses. It makes savescumming more attractive again. Whether people do that or not, well.. up to them.

On default settings it's probably a toss-up. I had a big fleet and fought a small skirmish with just a few frigates. Afterwards there were a bunch of negatives handed out for reserved ships. This turned me off of a few settings which I changed. If I had not changed them, I think positives and negatives would end up being heavily tilted towards random. The mod incentivizes having all ships be combat-able, and using all ships in your fleet for fear of reserves being struck by bad RNG.

If it was up to me, I'd make these settings the default:

Trait chance multiplier for all reserved ships: 0
Bonus chance randomness: Heavily reduced from 0.5 to maybe 0.1-0.2
I would also reduce the magnitude of all traits on all levels to about half of what it is now. The outliers currently are either very strong buffs or very strong nerfs, neither of which I think are desirable for a system that is largely based on reputation & psychology. If fights are too easy, you get bored. If your fleet is screwed, you don't need to get screwed harder. ;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 20, 2019, 10:42:08 AM
Quote
Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Yeah, I think perhaps it is. I think I'll reduce it from 75% to 50%, which would double instead of quadruple operational time after PPT. It's supposed to be hard to get max loyalty. I think I'll also adjust loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference.

I think this is a good change - 75% on top of Hardened Subsystems makes SO ships that exceed their PPT have quite a long lifetime. Not crazy, but its noticeable and perhaps too welcome.

Feedback: I dearly love the ability to not mind taking hull damage as long as I murderate the enemy enough. My crew apparently are rather bloodthirsty.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 20, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.5 (BETA)

Fixed Field Repairs 1 and 2 affecting the calculation of sustained damage
Fixed friendly fire to player ships being counted as dealt damage
Fixed damage against some enemy ships not being recorded (hopefully)
The battle report now lists loyalty levels (in gray) even when there was no change in loyalty
Reduced effect multipliers for all trait tiers:
   Notable    4 -> 3
   Well-known    6 -> 4
   Famous    8 -> 5
   Legendary    10 -> 6
Trait effect multiplier for Fiercly Loyal reduced from 3 to 2
Trait effect multiplier for Openly Insubordinate increased from -3 to -2
Adjusted loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference
Adjusted CR decay rate effects from loyalty:
   Openly Insubordinate 75 -> 100
   Insubordinate    50 -> 50
   Doubtful    25 -> 25
   Indifferent    0 -> 0
   Confident    -25 -> -20
   Loyal    -50 -> -35
   Fiercely Loyal    -75 -> -50
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 21, 2019, 01:34:16 PM
This version feels more balanced for sure. I still shouldn't talk since I use it with RNG off, oh well. ;)

Still getting the odd situation where damage is not being recorded. This was a station battle with 3 Doom vs a pirate station. All 3 did a decent amount of damage, but only one (flagship) is shown.
(https://i.imgur.com/VrsOgmq.png)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
Glad to hear that it feels more balanced. It's a shame the damage recording bug is still a thing. Thanks for letting me know. Think you could send me a log file including that battle?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 21, 2019, 03:40:56 PM
This should be the entire battle.

Spoiler
Code
7065729 [Thread-4] INFO  org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin  - Chatter plugin initialized
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - broadsword - 6e93b635-2acd-46ad-95d8-5d689e001a0d - 0df439e4-e448-4cbe-81a7-3cbf4937846f
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - 9f05e777-22ff-475f-93bc-2d346be593e8 - 0df439e4-e448-4cbe-81a7-3cbf4937846f
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - c06e40ee-3f41-44a6-8762-6cb45135606a - 300a2600-bf87-4872-8cfc-10568127abe5
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - 3e6286b8-1558-4b13-b52b-c735eebd4ae9 - 300a2600-bf87-4872-8cfc-10568127abe5
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by module_large2_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by piranha (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by module_large1_lowtech (1)
      module_large1_lowtech dealt 1115.9482/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 128.24675/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 1064.6503/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 10079.759/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 6134.0225/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 5471.8047/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 7389.35/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 40000.0/40000.0 damage to station1 (1)
      Total FP worth of damage: 50.0
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 3737.7083/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 2347.597/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 2530.891/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Peekaboo (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 1.4285715 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - FAILED
    Chance to Shuffle a Trait Better: 25% - SUCCEEDED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Virbius (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 0.0 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - SUCCEEDED
    Bonus Chance: 64% - SUCCEEDED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Memory Of Mairaath (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 0.0 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - FAILED
    Chance to Shuffle a Trait Better: 14% - FAILED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Honduras (Heron)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Roger Moore (Heron)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Augustus (Dominator (XIV))FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Foundation (Apogee)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Longinus (Eagle (XIV))FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Raptor (Drover)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Hive (Drover)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Prosperity (Sunder)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Angkor Wat (Sunder)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Bloodhound (Afflictor)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Argyle (Afflictor)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Hungry Raven (Colossus)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Marmite (Phaeton)FAILED
7154525 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bases.PirateBaseIntel  - Removing pirate base at [Penelope's Star Star System]
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Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Awesome. Thank you! That log turned out to be very enlightening. It looks like this is actually an entirely different issue related to stations (and other ships with multiple parts). Damage to the sections was uncounted because the API (sensibly) says they cost 0 supplies to deploy. Your flagship got all the credit because it landed the killing blow.

Feedback: I dearly love the ability to not mind taking hull damage as long as I murderate the enemy enough. My crew apparently are rather bloodthirsty.
Glad to hear it! I was worried that I had made the damage bonus too low for NPC ships to take advantage of.

This mod unfortunately has the side effect of long-lasting negatives applying to ship losses. It makes savescumming more attractive again. Whether people do that or not, well.. up to them.
Yeah, absolutely. The addition of the anti-save-scum mechanic to ruthless sector was actually in response to Meso bringing up that same concern.

The mod incentivizes having all ships be combat-able, and using all ships in your fleet for fear of reserves being struck by bad RNG.
Negative traits on logistics ships doesn't seem like something so worthy of fear to me. They tend to be fairly insignificant, and replacing logistics ships tends to be cheap. If a freighter ends up with fuel guzzler or something you can always sell it off or mothball it to reset it's reputation. The advantage of eventually ending up with a replacement that has a good reputation seems more than worth it to me.

Bonus chance randomness: Heavily reduced from 0.5 to maybe 0.1-0.2
I think the current system is too easy to game without a decent amount of randomness, but I see where you're coming from. I think RNG can be really fun sometimes, but often it's used as a crutch, and I think that's the case with how starship legends handles the bonus/malus rolls. I think I have a way to make the whole system more satisfying while improving on other aspects of the mod that I find lacking. I need to think through it a little more first, but I'll probably post about it here soon.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 06:15:33 PM
Yet Another Planned Change to How the Mod Decides if a Trait is Good or Bad
Every ship will have a persistent combat rating that affects the ratio of good to bad traits.
With a combat rating of 0%, a ship would have nothing but bad traits. With 100%, all traits would be good.
Traits would gradually shift to have a good/bad ratio equal to the rating of the ship.
Ships would get a combat rating for each battle they participate in, which would be calculated the same way bonus chance currently is.
Combat rating for battles would adjust the ship's persistent rating based on how much xp the battle awarded.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 21, 2019, 06:50:04 PM
So the difference I see is that currently, there is no advantage to pushing your performance beyond a certain point. That point being the cutoff of RNG. So if RNG is set to 1.0 and your damage dealt exceeds the equivalent of 1.01 points, you're guaranteed not to get a negative trait. Then further up there's a point where you're guaranteed a positive trait.

With the change, all ships will compete as damage dealers all the time. It's likely that most fleet ships will not get a 100% track record but settle at a point with a few negative traits. Also likely that the flagship will get 100%. This could work out okay. Edit: One positive I forgot. This'll encourage deploying less ships to get higher scores. On the condition that reserve ships don't get graded.

What you're losing is the immediate feedback of a positive shift for a battle well fought and a negative shift for a screw-up. You kinda get them, but accounted for with an average score that moves slowly over a period of time.

It could end up being more forgiving, and in a fully buffed legendary ship there's little point in the shifting around of traits except for a bit of gambling fun to see the best traits move up anyway.

So there's some advantages, some disadvantages. As the mod strives to become more fair overall, we see it also distance itself a bit from the 'fun' ideal of.. "I saw one of my allies take a risk and take out a tough foe, now it's got determined crew and an armor bonus." Or "I decloaked right into a barrage and now my crew thinks the phase coil's busted." Moments of excellence are very hard to quantify by algorithm.

I'd say go for it, but keep the current algorithm on standby in case it doesn't play out. I'm quite happy with it as it is, and with the various variables exposed in the .ini there's a lot of room for customization.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 09:43:11 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.6 (BETA)

Fixed failure to credit carriers with the damage dealt by their fighters (again)
[This was reintroduced in the last patch]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DrakonST on May 22, 2019, 02:44:20 AM
When it be moved to "Mods"?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Hussar on May 22, 2019, 03:55:12 AM
When it be moved to "Mods"?

An excellent question.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: frozentoes on May 22, 2019, 08:07:12 AM
Every ship will have a persistent combat rating that affects the ratio of good to bad traits.

If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 22, 2019, 01:39:39 PM
What you're losing is the immediate feedback of a positive shift for a battle well fought and a negative shift for a screw-up. You kinda get them, but accounted for with an average score that moves slowly over a period of time.
True, but that immediacy (in conjunction with RNG) has some serious downsides. If a ship does well in a large battle without getting a good trait, but then gets a bad trait in the next battle due to sub-par performance, it could be pretty frustrating. With the rating system, immediate feedback would be in the form of adjustments to a ships rating (which would be shown in battle reports).

As the mod strives to become more fair overall, we see it also distance itself a bit from the 'fun' ideal of.. "I saw one of my allies take a risk and take out a tough foe, now it's got determined crew and an armor bonus." Or "I decloaked right into a barrage and now my crew thinks the phase coil's busted." Moments of excellence are very hard to quantify by algorithm.
True, and that's a good point that I hadn't considered. The RNG of the current system reflects the fickleness of gossip, but this system wouldn't do that so well. I think the relationship between combat rating and traits would be under-the-hood enough not to completely subvert that impression.

I'd say go for it, but keep the current algorithm on standby in case it doesn't play out.
Oh, for sure. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to keep the current system as a setting.

When it be moved to "Mods"?

An excellent question.
I'll request that it be moved to the Mods subforum (and I'll stop calling it a BETA) once I'm fairly confident that the design goals have been met and that all bugs of any significance have been fixed. Basically, once its core features are "done."

If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
That sounds like it might actually be exactly what I had in mind:
new_persistent_rating = old_persistent_rating * 0.9 + battle_rating * 0.1
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Hussar on May 22, 2019, 04:00:47 PM
If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
That sounds like it might actually be exactly what I had in mind:
new_persistent_rating = old_persistent_rating * 0.9 + battle_rating * 0.1

Could this perhaps be tied to fleet performance too? I mean, it is possible to loose bad traits (https://i.imgur.com/AjLWYWE.png), it is however quite hard thing to do for an dedicated PD escorts? So perhaps victories in hard battles could influence that even if the pd boat iteself haven't really did much damage? Unless shooting down missles and fightercraft is counted towards that already?

I'll request that it be moved to the Mods subforum (and I'll stop calling it a BETA) once I'm fairly confident that the design goals have been met and that all bugs of any significance have been fixed. Basically, once its core features are "done."
I respect that :P
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tartiflette on May 23, 2019, 10:08:59 AM
I'm starting to think traits should have some common meta effect, so that cumulating both negative and positive traits contributes toward the same meta effect.

What I'm thinking about is for them to amplify relationship changes: you have a fleet of legendary ships, all relationship changes are increased (especially negative ones) because your fleet is so well known.

It would also naturaly makes transponder off less effective for obvious reasons. On the flip side great deeds could get rewarded even more especially when joining an ungoing battle to save a fleet or when attacking a market.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 23, 2019, 02:22:55 PM
Could this perhaps be tied to fleet performance too? I mean, it is possible to loose bad traits (https://i.imgur.com/AjLWYWE.png), it is however quite hard thing to do for an dedicated PD escorts? So perhaps victories in hard battles could influence that even if the pd boat iteself haven't really did much damage? Unless shooting down missles and fightercraft is counted towards that already?
So this reasoning is why battle difficulty contributes to bonus chance and there's a threshold before damage dealt counts. Battle difficulty basically awards "participation points" to every ship, no matter what role it fills (like PD, which isn't tracked). Damage dealers only earn extra if they go above and beyond. It's certainly not a perfect way to calculate how effective a ship was during battle, but I don't think it has any significant downsides.

I'm starting to think traits should have some common meta effect, so that cumulating both negative and positive traits contributes toward the same meta effect.

What I'm thinking about is for them to amplify relationship changes: you have a fleet of legendary ships, all relationship changes are increased (especially negative ones) because your fleet is so well known.

It would also naturaly makes transponder off less effective for obvious reasons. On the flip side great deeds could get rewarded even more especially when joining an ungoing battle to save a fleet or when attacking a market.
That would certainly make a lot of sense. If you wanted to pretend to be someone else I'd imagine one of the best ways to do so would be to use a completely different fleet. On the other hand, this mechanic might be difficult to relay in-game, and I'm having a hard time thinking of ways it would improve gameplay, other than the potential to occasionally encourage diversity in fleet compositions.
Another concern I have is that I would need to overwrite all the vanilla code dealing with relations changes, which would be pretty messy. Do you know if there are any more straightforward ways to adjust relationship influence?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 24, 2019, 12:08:32 AM
Run SetRelationship faction (currentRelationship+bonus) after battles/events when applicable?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 24, 2019, 06:22:14 AM
Yeah, changing relationships is easy. The difficulty would be overriding vanilla behavior in most places where relationships are changed.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DrakonST on May 24, 2019, 06:30:12 AM
Need to do danger multiplier for player fleet based on how much legendary ships have player. I mean not NPC danger level, i mean danger level of player fleet what see NPC when atacking player.

It can cut stupid situations on endgame when i as player have 5 legendary Conquests what can exterminate any fleet on sector but i has been atacked by some stupid pirates(in such situations and just do "nuke" command, hate boring battles when you know what you do with enemy). No one will want atack a most angry fleet on sector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 24, 2019, 01:52:20 PM
Yeah, changing relationships is easy. The difficulty would be overriding vanilla behavior in most places where relationships are changed.

But do you have to?
Copy all of the relation values to your own variables and do compares after actions, then add a bonus and save the new value (to both).
If you want to double the value of each interaction:

my_hemegomony_rel = hegemony_rel
hemegomony_rel = hegemony_rel + (hegemony_rel - my_hegemony_rel)*2
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Obsidian Actual on May 25, 2019, 12:31:43 AM
(Not sure if this has been bought up before.)

Using the amount of hull integrity lost during combat as a performance metric is a neat idea.
But what about, say, ships purposely designed to eschew shields in exchange for regenerating hull/armor as a form of defense?

Granted, such ships are rare enough (at least in the current Modiverse), but having Starship Legends running does make me think twice about splurging on a BRDY Imaginos (or even an SWP Excelsior) when faced with the prospect of unavoidable negative traits. :'(

Any chance in the far future of some sort of mechanic to "exclude" certain ships from gaining trait hullmods (both positive & negative) without having to uninstall Starship Legends? A whitelist, perhaps?

(Other than that... thanks for this awesome mod, Sundog. Earning buffs via trait hullmods is helping me kick my ConsoleCommands cheating habit :P)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 25, 2019, 03:05:59 AM
I got curious and went to check. I've messed with console commands and devmode, mainly to be able to fight any fleets/stations I want immediately, and somehow got records of damage received and dealt completely zeroed. It also appears that if you fight a station with just an Excelsior, then retreat, it doesn't count the damage dealt at all.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/qtlKuRz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6EX7tNO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IZPF939.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oMxm2cA.png)
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Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 25, 2019, 11:03:19 PM
Need to do danger multiplier for player fleet based on how much legendary ships have player. I mean not NPC danger level, i mean danger level of player fleet what see NPC when atacking player.

It can cut stupid situations on endgame when i as player have 5 legendary Conquests what can exterminate any fleet on sector but i has been atacked by some stupid pirates(in such situations and just do "nuke" command, hate boring battles when you know what you do with enemy). No one will want atack a most angry fleet on sector.
That might work. I would have to give it some thought. Alterations to fleet AI isn't quite within the purview of this mod, and some people get annoyed with having to run down fleets that run away. I don't know how feasible a change like that would be from a technical perspective either.

Copy all of the relation values to your own variables and do compares after actions, then add a bonus and save the new value (to both).
Yes, monitoring relations and adjusting them based on existing changes would work, but it wouldn't result in a good user experience because the actual changes would be different from what the notifications say. To do it properly, I would have to either fix the vanilla relation change notifications, or suppress and replace them.

But what about, say, ships purposely designed to eschew shields in exchange for regenerating hull/armor as a form of defense?
My opinion on this is basically "defense is defense," be it from shields, PD, cloak, armor, speed, firepower, ship systems, or anything else that helps the ship avoid taking hull damage. Regenerating hull, on the other hand, is something that isn't handled well by this system at all. I'll have to think about ways to handle that. I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken."

Any chance in the far future of some sort of mechanic to "exclude" certain ships from gaining trait hullmods (both positive & negative) without having to uninstall Starship Legends? A whitelist, perhaps?
A blacklist is more likely, but I want to try to figure something out that's not quite so heavy-handed.

(Other than that... thanks for this awesome mod, Sundog. Earning buffs via trait hullmods is helping me kick my ConsoleCommands cheating habit :P)
You're quite welcome  :)
I should warn you; I'm planning to add console commands to manipulate reputations at some point.

I got curious and went to check. I've messed with console commands and devmode, mainly to be able to fight any fleets/stations I want immediately, and somehow got records of damage received and dealt completely zeroed. It also appears that if you fight a station with just an Excelsior, then retreat, it doesn't count the damage dealt at all.
Thanks for the info! Were these battles all against a lone station? The current version doesn't handle damage dealt to stations (and multi-part ships) well at all, due to how the game records hull damage (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15483.msg249742#msg249742) (basically, the final blow awards 100% damage). Fixing the handling of station damage is one of my main focuses for the next release, and I'm pretty sure this aspect of it is already fixed in the dev build.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 26, 2019, 12:25:50 AM
Thanks for the info! Were these battles all against a lone station? The current version doesn't handle damage dealt to stations (and multi-part ships) well at all, due to how the game records hull damage (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15483.msg249742#msg249742) (basically, the final blow awards 100% damage). Fixing the handling of station damage is one of my main focuses for the next release, and I'm pretty sure this aspect of it is already fixed in the dev build.
I think that in a couple of battles there were ships supporting the station and I think it didn't count damage dealt to them at all. I can go and check it again, but I think the issue with station damage prevented the whole thing from working properly anyway. Also, what about the "records go 0% everywhere" thing? Is it supposed to work like that?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Obsidian Actual on May 26, 2019, 02:15:04 AM
... I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken." ...

Hmm, that alone might work.

Then again, a composite of "lowest hull level reached" AND "total hull damage taken" would probably make more sense (balance-wise?).

Don't know how to summarize my reasons exactly... but say for example a self-repairing frigate survives a single protracted engagement where their lowest hull level reached was around 40% of their maximum hull; however, if this was the result of them repeatedly tanking shots (and then falling back to regenerate) to the point where they've cumulatively "sustained" enough damage that would normally destroy them -- I don't know, eight times over (800% hull)? -- I doubt the crew (or AI) onboard would see this as symptomatic of a "skilled" captain. One that relies almost solely on the self-regenerating ability to survive, instead of decent helmsman-ship and/or application of firepower.

Just my two cents. Off the top of my head, I don't have any good ratios or multipliers for if a composite formula is implemented.


I should warn you; I'm planning to add console commands to manipulate reputations at some point.

TWO DAYS
I WAS MERELY TWO DAYS AWAY FROM COMPLETING REHAB ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 26, 2019, 01:41:15 PM
I would really like to know when a ship's performance is zeroed, to avoid things like these in the future... It was a tough fight and I had to re-engage two times.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/88rKT0K.png)
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Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 26, 2019, 02:01:34 PM
I would really like to know when a ship's performance is zeroed, to avoid things like these in the future... It was a tough fight and I had to re-engage two times.
Sorry about that! Damage won't be recorded for engagements you retreat from. I just fixed it in the dev build today. I'm working on getting a patch out with a few other fixes.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 12:02:00 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.7 (BETA)

A ship's balance of good/bad traits is now determined by it's combat rating, with only a small amount of RNG
     See "What does combat rating do?" in the FAQs for details.
     To switch back to the old system, set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Fixed hull damage not being recorded after a full retreat (by the player)
Fixed an issue that would occasionally cause battle difficulty to be 0%
Fixed credit for damage dealt to sub-sections of stations and multi-section ships not being distributed properly
Fixed multi-section ships not getting credit for damage dealt by their sub-sections
Sustained hull damage is now capped at 100%, which should help ships with regenerating hull until I can make a more perminant fix
Doubled the xp required to earn new traits at every tier

I should have explained all this earlier. Sorry for not doing so!

An overdue explanation of how the new combat rating system interacts with old saves:

How the new system works:
  • Combat rating determines how many of a ship's traits are good.
  • Traits will gradually shift to have a percentage of good traits equal to the current rating of the ship.
  • If a ship has a rating of 70% for a long time, it will eventually end up with about 70% good traits and 30% bad traits.
So, unlike the previous version, where traits are determined by individual battles, in 1.1.7 it's more about maintaining as high a rating as possible.

Initial Rating
When an old save is loaded with the current version, it will try to guess what each of your ship's combat rating should be.
It will assign a rating of 100% to ships with 8 good traits and 0% to ships with 8 bad traits. Ship's with 1 or 2 traits should get an initial rating fairly close to 50%.

Rationale for change:
The old system was simply too easy to manipulate. Any ship that did fairly well in most battles would eventually end up with 8 good traits. I used RNG to mitigate this problem, but that had issues of its own, and the law of averages always wins out in the end anyway. With the rating system, I think ships will end up with a much more balanced mix of good and bad traits that more accurately reflects their overall combat performance.

Switching back to the old system:
Making the following changes to your options file should return the trait bonus calculation to exactly how it used to be:
Set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Set "bonusChanceRandomness" to 1.0
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 27, 2019, 01:00:43 AM
Yes, monitoring relations and adjusting them based on existing changes would work, but it wouldn't result in a good user experience because the actual changes would be different from what the notifications say. To do it properly, I would have to either fix the vanilla relation change notifications, or suppress and replace them.

Or you could just add yours right after.

"Relation with Hegemony increased by 2"   <--- core mesage
"Relation with Hegemony increased by 1"   <--- your mesage (the bonus)

Not exactly the prettiest, but works.

Quote
My opinion on this is basically "defense is defense," be it from shields, PD, cloak, armor, speed, firepower, ship systems, or anything else that helps the ship avoid taking hull damage. Regenerating hull, on the other hand, is something that isn't handled well by this system at all. I'll have to think about ways to handle that. I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken."

Yeah, Steelclad has an entire faction that is all armor, no shields (and no armor regen by default).
Hmm..perhaps a check if a ship has shields an then a different calculation for it?

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 27, 2019, 06:52:32 AM
Very much a fan of this mod.

Not really a fan of this though:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/t2k6l89.png)
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This was a popup pirate base. The only objective I had was kill it as quickly as possible so I can go and do something actually interesting.
So I deployed everything I could and completely rolled them with zero damage recieved.
And for doing so I was rewarded with.... A load of penalties.
What. How?

I don't have a problem getting bad things if bad things happen, but winning flawlessly (regardless of "difficulty") and still imposing bad things on you seems like something is very wrong.
Is this intentional?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 27, 2019, 06:58:56 AM
Is this an old save? Sundog has warned me about using newer version of the mod with old saves. It can cause some funky things to happen. It might also just be the way the current system interacts with low danger battles. One change I'd propose is to have a grace period of a couple of fights where ships affect their rating, but don't gain any traits at all.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512356777451323393/582527151551676426/unknown.png)
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Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 27, 2019, 07:29:08 AM
Yes, it is an old save.
Just for further fruitiness:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/k53U3Ux.png)
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Defending against an expedition. Again, just deploy whatever.
One AI ship did particularly well and got a big red mark. Same as above.

So is the new version not entirely backwards compatible?
Because restarting is not exactly a huge deal.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: frozentoes on May 27, 2019, 08:56:37 AM
The new system is rating ships based on their cumulative (recent) history. How this interacts with existing save data may be funny, because your recent history isn't stored yet - it will probably 'even out' over time but at first you're going to see sharp changes because some of the math is starting from zero, but other parts of the math already have values in place.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 09:23:50 AM
I should have explained all this earlier. Sorry for not doing so!

An overdue explanation of how the new combat rating system interacts with old saves:

How the new system works:
So, unlike the previous version, where traits are determined by individual battles, in 1.1.7 it's more about maintaining as high a rating as possible.

Initial Rating
When an old save is loaded with the current version, it will try to guess what each of your ship's combat rating should be.
(SCC, the thing I warned you about was that this calculation was being performed incorrectly in the dev build)
It will assign a rating of 100% to ships with 8 good traits and 0% to ships with 8 bad traits. Ship's with 1 or 2 traits should get an initial rating fairly close to 50%.

Rationale for change:
The old system was simply too easy to manipulate. Any ship that did fairly well in most battles would eventually end up with 8 good traits. I used RNG to mitigate this problem, but that had issues of its own, and the law of averages always wins out in the end anyway. With the rating system, I think ships will end up with a much more balanced mix of good and bad traits that more accurately reflects their overall combat performance.

Switching back to the old system:
Making the following changes to your options file should return the trait bonus calculation to exactly how it used to be:
Set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Set "bonusChanceRandomness" to 1.0

@Serenitis: So the reason your ships got so many bad trait changes was probably because they all started out with 8 good traits, giving them an initial rating of 100% (which is the required rating to have nothing but good traits). Even though they all did well in that battle, they didn't do well enough to earn a max rating, so it was adjusted down (along with their traits)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 09:53:57 AM
The new system is rating ships based on their cumulative (recent) history. How this interacts with existing save data may be funny, because your recent history isn't stored yet - it will probably 'even out' over time but at first you're going to see sharp changes because some of the math is starting from zero, but other parts of the math already have values in place.
Yep, pretty much. Thanks for explaining.

One change I'd propose is to have a grace period of a couple of fights where ships affect their rating, but don't gain any traits at all.
That's a good idea. I probably should've done something like that, but I'd hesitate to complicate the code for the sake of a smoother version transition. It's too late now anyway. Combat ratings will still be tracked even if they're not used to adjust traits, so it's possible to manually make it work that way.

Or you could just add yours right after.
Yeah, but again, I don't like to make changes unless I can do them right. The screen space for notifications often gets too cluttered after battles even without redundant notifications.

Yeah, Steelclad has an entire faction that is all armor, no shields (and no armor regen by default).
Hmm..perhaps a check if a ship has shields an then a different calculation for it?
The current calculation doesn't penalize ships for taking armor damage, so I don't see why this would be necessary. Non-shield defenses can be just as viable as shields (all vanilla phase ships, for example).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 27, 2019, 10:37:49 AM
Interesting changes! I'll give the new version a shot on my next new game, as I'm nearly endgame on my current save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 27, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
That's actually a decent change. Most ships that got deployed regularly in the previous version tended to get a 'perfect' set of traits after a few dozen battles regardless.
Was just a bit confusing seeing what it was doing without knowing why. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm going to run that old save for a while just to see what it does.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 27, 2019, 10:34:14 PM
During these long, huge battles in the endgame (where I'm flying a Victory battleship around with many cruisers and carriers, four colonies, Nexerelin with 11 mods in total), this mod has become pretty essential.  The legendary Captains with loyal crews appear to have immense endurance, and they need it.  Sometimes I am only allowed to field six total ships at the beginning of an engagement, against huge odds.

Decommissioning a legendary ship, or even moving a Captain to a new ship, is a really big deal:  so far it has only made sense to upgrade a Captain to a bigger/better ship.

For me, this mod is fantastic in the way that it brings a while additional heap of Rogue-like game elements:    When I start a new game, not only do I not know what sort of ship roster I will end up building, I have no idea how my people will turn out.  If i minimize losses, I am generally rewarded with better ships.  The icing on the cake is that the mod is compatible with the other ten mods I have in this game instance.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Null Ganymede on May 27, 2019, 11:14:27 PM
It definitely tweaks the officer leveling metagame. Before, I would aim to train captains for a small set of roles (armor brawler, shield skirmish, carrier) then swap them liberally within those roles.

The fact that a loyal crew can keep a ship relevant for what feels like 2x the typical duration keeps smaller ships viable longer. More importantly, it really encourages specializing your ships to your captains down to individual skills.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 11:55:51 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.8 (BETA)

Fixed miscellaneous bugs related to damage calculations (eventually I'll get it right)
Fixed additional credit being awarded for landing the killing blow to a station
Fixed battle difficulty calculation failing to account for D-Mods, along with a few other issues
Fixed inital rating for newly notable ships not being applied
Fixed debug information appearing in reputation hullmod tooltips
Damage dealt to non-functional station sections (like armor sections) no longer counts as hull damage
Added new option: "showCombatRatings"

Edit: This version requires the most up-to-date version of Starsector
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 28, 2019, 01:33:36 AM
Recommended Option 'Presets'

The options file is very flexible, but it can be a bit complicated and hard to understand.
These edits are meant as a starting point for configuring Starship Legends to fit your preferred playstyle.


Spoiler
Author's Choice (Default)
The default settings are meant to give ships a fairly even mix of good and bad traits while making it possible (but very difficult) for them to eventually earn perfect reputations through exceptional performance in combat.
The FAQs go into detail about how Starship Legends works by default.

Perfect Balance
For those who want to add flavor to ships without upsetting the balance of the game more than necessary.
With these settings, every other trait will have a negative effect, and no effects will be applied due to loyalty.
Quote
"battleDifficultyMult":0.0,
"damageTakenMult":0.0,
"damageDealtMult":0.0,
"enableOfficerLoyaltySystem":false,
"showCombatRatings":false,

Unlimited Power
It's a single player game, so there's no such thing as cheating  ;)
These settings guarantee that traits will always be beneficial and crews will never become less loyal to their captains.
Quote
"ignoreAllMaluses":true,
"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true,
"worsenLoyaltyChanceMult":0.0,

Completely Random
These settings will leave the number of good and bad traits a ship gets up to chance.
Quote
"bonusChanceRandomness":1000.0,
"traitPositionChangeChanceMult":0.0,

Better Immersion
With these settings, reputation changes will be determined by the ship's performance in the battle in which the changes were earned.
Quote
"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true,
"traitPositionChangeChanceMult":1.0,
"showCombatRatings":false,
[close]

That's actually a decent change. Most ships that got deployed regularly in the previous version tended to get a 'perfect' set of traits after a few dozen battles regardless.
Yep, exactly. Hopefully the new system turns out to be a lot harder to manipulate while still being fair.

Was just a bit confusing seeing what it was doing without knowing why. Thanks for the clarification.
No problem. Sorry I didn't clarify sooner!

@eidolad & Null Ganymede: I'm glad the mod is working out well for you guys!  :D
I'm particularly happy to hear about it encouraging diversity in officer builds and fleet compositions  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 28, 2019, 07:27:29 AM
When starting a fight with a bounty.

Code
870530 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.CombatEngineAPI.isEnemyInFullRetreat()Z
java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.CombatEngineAPI.isEnemyInFullRetreat()Z
at starship_legends.CombatPlugin.advance(CombatPlugin.java:93)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.ooOO.o0oO$Oo.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.oOOO.new.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Starting Starsector 0.9.1a-RC6 launcher
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Running in D:\Games\Starsector0.91\starsector-core
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - OS: Windows 8.1 6.3
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Java version: 1.7.0_79 (64-bit)

I reverted to 1.17 and works normally.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Morathar on May 28, 2019, 07:52:24 AM
According to the patch notes, that missing method was added in Starsector 0.9.1a RC8:

-Added to CombatEngineAPI:
    -boolean isEnemyInFullRetreat();

In other words, it looks like the latest version of Starship Legends requires the most recent Starsector hotfix...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 28, 2019, 09:40:56 AM
According to the patch notes, that missing method was added in Starsector 0.9.1a RC8:

-Added to CombatEngineAPI:
    -boolean isEnemyInFullRetreat();

In other words, it looks like the latest version of Starship Legends requires the most recent Starsector hotfix...
Yep, exactly. I should've mentioned this in the update post.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.9 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 28, 2019, 11:12:40 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.9 (BETA)

Fixes the lack of backwards compatibility introduced in the last patch

When used with an out-of-date version of Starsector, the previous version of Starship Legends would report an error during battle and fail to properly record damage data.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.9 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 28, 2019, 12:13:01 PM
I was'nt even aware there as a hotfix.....
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.9 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: MesoTroniK on May 28, 2019, 08:26:55 PM
I was'nt even aware there as a hotfix.....

Version Checker is your friend.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 29, 2019, 04:49:50 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.10 (BETA)

Fixed a problem with battle difficulty calculation
Fixed battle report showing a rating of 0% for combat ships that weren't deployed
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 29, 2019, 05:03:17 PM
Much as I hesitate, I will say this:

TLDR:  has the combat readiness buff that legendary Captains/crews get, been balanced?

What makes this mod essential for me, in addition to the "emergent lore" goodness is:  I think that this mod is giving my legendary officers and their ships (that they've Captained long enough to gain fanatic loyalty) great combat endurance during the long battles.  I may be wrong that this mod is the source of this extended endurance.  I may be wrong even about the extended endurance.  Assuming I'm right:

I wonder out loud if my legendary officers and their ships are staying quite fresh during these long battles in the late game, while the enemy ships are degrading in combat ability.  I don't know how to examine enemy ship readiness (perhaps it is right in front of me).

- like when I'm up against a 380K bounty and there are six Conquests, two Astrals, and a horde of worthy cruiser-class carriers, combat cruisers, etc. to back them up.

- and my Deployment Points restrict me to six total ships:   Victory battleship, two battlecruisers, three cruiser carriers.

And in that long struggle (great battle...much love to StarSector) where I "earn" the right to deploy the rest of my legendary officers and their ships, I get only one degradation of combat readiness fleet-wide (and it didn't affect every ship it appears).  I had set a "defend" point in the middle of the map and just planted my flag there until the capitals were nearly gone...this was like a 17 minute battle in real time.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 30, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
17 minutes does seem like an awfully long time for ships to remain deployed without breaking down. I did some tests to make sure the buff was being applied correctly and I couldn't find any problems. Stacking a fiercely loyal captain with hardened subsystems reduces CR degradation rate from 100% to 37.5%, which would increase the time a ship can remain deployed after peak performance runs out by 266%. That might account for the extreme boost in endurance. Anyway, I think I'll reduce the bonus to 30% at max loyalty.

I get only one degradation of combat readiness fleet-wide
Does this mean that only one of your ships ran out of peak performance time? That would be crazy, and something officer loyalty shouldn't affect.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 30, 2019, 08:00:21 PM
Since the bonus got nerfed twice, it may be fair to make the malus a little less harsh as well.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 30, 2019, 09:06:43 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking it'll just be a simple -30 through 30. I think that should be enough to be meaningful without upsetting difficulty too much.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 31, 2019, 10:18:38 AM
Does this mean that only one of your ships ran out of peak performance time? That would be crazy, and something officer loyalty shouldn't affect.

Sorry for the inaccuracy of that, I'm not well versed in the degradation phases since most battles end for me, one way or another beforehand, I'll try to collect more info.  But basically:

a) Without this mod:  if I'm in a battle of long duration I would get a big stream of readiness warnings that seem to account for all ships having hit the first degradation level. 

b) With Starship Legends, the few times that I recall getting readiness warnings since my officers fully leveled, the reporting pattern was more sporadic...and I have never once had to withdraw a ship due to CR depletion.  This is a massively good thing.

Details:  With Starship Legends, I've played a single Nex game (11 mods total) with the same 10 officers flying mostly the same ships since mid-game.  All are legendary lvl 20s.  Absolute pros and my battle reports rarely show any attribute changes for most.  The only changes are for the few officers I've moved to bigger ships.

I haven't found enough justification to retire ships that have mostly negative traits either...they seem to purr along just fine.

The nature of the big battles and how I've been fighting them recently:  we're talking enough time for a big bounty fleet to cycle in all 7 of their capitals on default battle size, with the player defending a point in the middle of the map - and thus those ships have to fly down to the player even to begin fighting.  I'm not bothering to remove the defend point until I've destroyed most of those capitals.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 31, 2019, 08:11:05 PM
Having played with the new system for a while, I have some observations and some questions.

A perfect 8/8 fleet imported over from the old system will see a slow trend downwards at the beginning. This makes sense. However, I have not once seen a (+) as a result of outstanding performance since the update (talking 400% damage inflicted and at 100% score). Once a ship peaks, there are no trait changes. It has become impossible to 'buff out' bad traits once you have them, whereas with the old system it was difficult and up to RNG to promote the right trait for the negative trait to be demoted. Something I have never seen happen either, but it was possible. Everything I have gotten so far has been maluses. I have even seen crew loyalty promotions and bad traits being awarded simultaneously.

The config says that RNG is heavily reduced now, but either I'm seeing a pattern of bad luck, or something in the calculations is off. Note that most of these ships are legendary with 6-8 positives, but once they lose some or gain a bad trait, I am not seeing any improvement either. Doesn't a 100% score correspond to 8 positive traits?

Where before even a low-ish difficulty rating would allow a ship to excel, i.e. a single player-piloted Afflictor helping an ally vs. pirates and doing upwards of 150% damage, now that is not enough to even push beyond 80% score. This seems a bit harsh and results in me not wanting to engage *anything* that's not a difficult battle against overwhelming odds. It also makes me deploy way less than I usually do. Usually resulting in very difficult fights that still end up with a less than great difficulty score.

Also noticed a bug. Sometimes a score change is shown on the post-combat screen but it doesn't stick.. That last screenshot shows the Afflictor getting to 94%, but now that I look at it it's back to 88%. After a second test: After-battle report (https://imgur.com/1u5xEHk.png). And then checking the ship stats. (https://imgur.com/wM7ljy9.png) I have fought half a dozen battles with these two Afflictors to try and get their score up, yet it seems they are stuck on 88% and 81% respectively.

A Heron also went from Legendary down to Well-known without ever dropping below 80% score.

Spoiler
(https://imgur.com/gRZlOUK.png)

Crew bonus, trait malus.

(https://imgur.com/XDPkoQ5.png)

Chance for a flawed Afflictor to lose a bad trait. Destroyed ship gets no bad trait.

(https://imgur.com/vqltZcH.png)
(https://imgur.com/z6oGWoF.png)

Heron with a +-0 score change gets bad trait. Outstanding Sunder previously demoted to 'Famous' and 6/6 traits gets nothing. Outstanding Afflictor with bad traits gets nothing.

(https://imgur.com/48evCDS.png)

Outstanding Sunder gets shafted. Outstanding Afflictor with a bit of hull damage gets a bad score.

(https://imgur.com/QFciXcV.png)

Another chance for the Afflictor to lose a bad trait.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on June 01, 2019, 01:23:42 AM
When I set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true, I get very different results. (https://i.imgur.com/FK1ChpB.png) Even with low battle difficulty. (https://i.imgur.com/IObCExa.png)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on June 01, 2019, 03:29:10 PM
I don't know if this problem would fall upon other mod makers, but I think that the battle difficulty calculation could use some work for boss factions like the Blade Breakers from DME. I feel that ~23% significantly underrates the BB dreadnought capabilities when I am going up against it with a fleet with a few not great capitals (DME Zelenograd, 3 HMI Junk for cargo capacity), a couple carrier cruisers and one combat cruiser, and a number of destroyers. I don't know if you could take into account the supply usage increase by the built in hull mod on the BB ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 02, 2019, 03:36:40 PM
I think I broke this mod in the least interesting way possible.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584850709519007755/screenshot731.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584864484867440650/screenshot736.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584868785501241384/screenshot738.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584871873326743574/screenshot740.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on June 02, 2019, 07:05:39 PM
I think I broke this mod in the least interesting way possible.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584850709519007755/screenshot731.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584864484867440650/screenshot736.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584868785501241384/screenshot738.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584871873326743574/screenshot740.png)
[close]
HOW?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 03, 2019, 04:42:18 PM
a) Without this mod:  if I'm in a battle of long duration I would get a big stream of readiness warnings that seem to account for all ships having hit the first degradation level. 

b) With Starship Legends, the few times that I recall getting readiness warnings since my officers fully leveled, the reporting pattern was more sporadic...and I have never once had to withdraw a ship due to CR depletion.  This is a massively good thing.
Hmm... this isn't consistent with my experience (or my intention) at all. Starship legends should only be increasing the peak performance time of ships with the "determined crew" trait (by between 3 and 24 percent). Does the peak performance time display as higher than it should? Does it properly deplete at a rate of 1 second per second?

@Schwartz:
Spoiler
A perfect 8/8 fleet imported over from the old system will see a slow trend downwards at the beginning. This makes sense. However, I have not once seen a (+) as a result of outstanding performance since the update (talking 400% damage inflicted and at 100% score). Once a ship peaks, there are no trait changes. It has become impossible to 'buff out' bad traits once you have them, whereas with the old system it was difficult and up to RNG to promote the right trait for the negative trait to be demoted.
The config says that RNG is heavily reduced now, but either I'm seeing a pattern of bad luck, or something in the calculations is off. Note that most of these ships are legendary with 6-8 positives, but once they lose some or gain a bad trait, I am not seeing any improvement either. Doesn't a 100% score correspond to 8 positive traits?
If everything is working properly, there should be a minimum of an 8% chance for a bad trait to be removed or demoted on a ship with 7 good traits and 1 bad trait for each battle in which it maintains a score of 100%. I've made some adjustments to increase that likelihood (and generally improve how the rating system works for ships at 100%), but I haven't found any bugs that would prevent it from working as intended.

I have even seen crew loyalty promotions and bad traits being awarded simultaneously.
Loyalty is still based on the old system, so this would be working as intended if the battle rating was above 50% but below the ship's percentage of good traits.

Where before even a low-ish difficulty rating would allow a ship to excel, i.e. a single player-piloted Afflictor helping an ally vs. pirates and doing upwards of 150% damage, now that is not enough to even push beyond 80% score. This seems a bit harsh and results in me not wanting to engage *anything* that's not a difficult battle against overwhelming odds. It also makes me deploy way less than I usually do. Usually resulting in very difficult fights that still end up with a less than great difficulty score.
Yeah, the rating mechanic encourages difficult fights, which isn't a goal of this mod and I'm sure it isn't the preference of all players, but I don't think it's particularly harsh. Fighting easy battles alone can never reduce a ship's score below 50%, which is the (rough) baseline for being the same power as the ship would be without the mod.

Also noticed a bug. Sometimes a score change is shown on the post-combat screen but it doesn't stick.. That last screenshot shows the Afflictor getting to 94%, but now that I look at it it's back to 88%. After a second test: After-battle report (https://imgur.com/1u5xEHk.png). And then checking the ship stats. (https://imgur.com/wM7ljy9.png) I have fought half a dozen battles with these two Afflictors to try and get their score up, yet it seems they are stuck on 88% and 81% respectively.
Just found and fixed an issue that could frequently cause this problem. I should've looked into it sooner. There are a few other things I want to add to the next patch, but I should be able to get it out today.

A Heron also went from Legendary down to Well-known without ever dropping below 80% score.
This sounds like an unfortunate and unintended consequence of transitioning to the new system. Did your Heron start with nothing but good traits? If so, the mod is probably trying to balance it's traits toward it's rating by removing good traits, but that never does any good since it hasn't gotten any new bad traits to lower it's percentage of good traits below 100%.

When I set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true, I get very different results. (https://i.imgur.com/FK1ChpB.png) Even with low battle difficulty. (https://i.imgur.com/IObCExa.png)
Yep. That setting should revert back to the old system. Your screenshots reminded me that I need to make it so the rating column shows the ship's rating for the battle instead of it's persistent rating when that setting is true.
btw, thanks once again for your in-depth feedback!
[close]

I don't know if this problem would fall upon other mod makers, but I think that the battle difficulty calculation could use some work for boss factions like the Blade Breakers from DME. I feel that ~23% significantly underrates the BB dreadnought capabilities when I am going up against it with a fleet with a few not great capitals (DME Zelenograd, 3 HMI Junk for cargo capacity), a couple carrier cruisers and one combat cruiser, and a number of destroyers.
Starship legends estimates the strength of a ship based on the supplies required to deploy it. Deploy costs are an important balance consideration, but less so for non-player factions like BB or [REDACTED], so it might not always be accurate. There's not much I can do about this situation other than creating a list of power estimates for every ship, both modded and vanilla, but that has several massive downsides.

I don't know if you could take into account the supply usage increase by the built in hull mod on the BB ships.
This might already be the case. I'll have to check.

I think I broke this mod in the least interesting way possible.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584850709519007755/screenshot731.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584864484867440650/screenshot736.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584868785501241384/screenshot738.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584871873326743574/screenshot740.png)
[close]
I'm assuming those numbers are accurate? If so, then I'd say either you earned those combat rating increases by fighting very well, or there's something about your game configuration or mod list that makes combat too easy. A liberal application of cheese, perhaps? If you want to avoid the problem of inverted difficulty created by getting good traits from doing well in battle, you might want to try the "perfect balance" or "completely random" settings.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 03, 2019, 10:55:44 PM
It's fine, I'm just boasting. It's a shame that I can get +10 ship rating every fight and still get negative traits, but I've heard that it's not working properly (still) and you're working on it.
Starship legends estimates the strength of a ship based on the supplies required to deploy it. Deploy costs are an important balance consideration, but less so for non-player factions like BB or [REDACTED], so it might not always be accurate. There's not much I can do about this situation other than creating a list of power estimates for every ship, both modded and vanilla, but that has several massive downsides.
Fleet points are exactly that, power estimates for every ship. I swear, I've mentioned this one before...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 04, 2019, 01:26:09 AM
It's fine, I'm just boasting. It's a shame that I can get +10 ship rating every fight and still get negative traits, but I've heard that it's not working properly (still) and you're working on it.
Ok, gotcha. There are several fixes and improvements on the way, but the only problems related to trait gain that I'm aware of are fairly minor (there should be no chance of negative trait changes at 100% rating, for example). The new system tries to make ships have the same percentage of good traits as it's combat rating, so it's entirely possible for a ship to get a negative trait in spite of gaining 10%. A ship with only one good trait is almost guaranteed to get a bad one next time, for example. The only way to prevent that would be for the ship to get a rating of 100% before gaining a new trait.

Starship legends estimates the strength of a ship based on the supplies required to deploy it. Deploy costs are an important balance consideration, but less so for non-player factions like BB or [REDACTED], so it might not always be accurate. There's not much I can do about this situation other than creating a list of power estimates for every ship, both modded and vanilla, but that has several massive downsides.
Fleet points are exactly that, power estimates for every ship. I swear, I've mentioned this one before...
You have. I remember. FP was one of several stats I considered while deciding how best to estimate ship strength while I was initially working on ruthless sector. While FP may not underestimate remnant strength as much as deploy cost, it has several disadvantages that I consider to be much more important considerations:
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 04, 2019, 09:21:23 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.11 (BETA)

Fixed combat rating adjustments not being saved if the ship had no trait or loyalty changes
Fixed an issue that made it possible for a ship with max rating to get negative trait changes
Fixed ships with built-in phase field hullmods being able to earn non-applicable traits related to sensor profile
Loyalty levels now require certain ratings to improve, from 0.1 at insubordinate to 0.9 at loyal
The CR decay adjustment from loyalty now ranges from -30% to 30% instead of -50% to 100%
The strength estimation of stations is now based on fleet points rather than deployment cost
Battle reports...
   Now include destroyed and disabled ships that were not recovered
   Will no longer disappear as long as they are marked as important (pinned)
   Now show ratings for the battle instead of a persistent rating when useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance is true
   Now list ships in the order they were in before battle instead of after
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on June 05, 2019, 04:55:41 AM
The new single-combat rating may fluctuate wildly, but it doesn't get in the way and everything works as it should. I think the median rating, even when using the single-combat setting, still produces a more meaningful number, so you could definitely use the other one as well.

This release feels pretty polished. Thanks for your hard work and being a good sport through all my complaints. ;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 05, 2019, 08:04:09 PM
The new single-combat rating may fluctuate wildly, but it doesn't get in the way and everything works as it should. I think the median rating, even when using the single-combat setting, still produces a more meaningful number, so you could definitely use the other one as well.
Good to know that the old system is still working properly. I'm not sure what you mean by using the other one as well.

This release feels pretty polished. Thanks for your hard work and being a good sport through all my complaints. ;)
Well, you're quite welcome! Your feedback has all been very constructive and helpful  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on June 05, 2019, 11:36:36 PM
The new scoring method for the 'classic' setting feels almost unnecessary. You may score 150% one combat, then 60% the next.. and neither number really does anything. In 1.1.10 there was only the average score and that at least gave some insight into ship performance long term. You could just use the average score for both systems and you wouldn't lose anything IMO.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 06, 2019, 12:51:51 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.12 (BETA)

Fixed "Skilled Salvage Team" being the only trait that could possibly be earned (introduced in the last patch. it's a long story...)
Improved accuracy of ship-strength estimation for non-player [REDACTED] ships, including those added by mods
Civilian ships are now estimated to have 0 strength, and therefore no longer affect battle difficulty rating

A note about how the strength of [REDACTED] ships are now estimated:
(WARNING: The spoiler below contains actual (but minor) spoilers)
Spoiler
Ship strength estimations are used for determining battle difficulty, so it's important that they're fairly accurate.
The strength estimation of most ships is equal to the supplies required to deploy them, but that value is inaccurate for many non-player factions, like Remnants, Domain Drones, and Blade Breakers (from Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering). To remedy this, the strength of any ship with the UNBOARDABLE tag will be estimated based on Fleet Points instead, but adjusted in order to match deployment cost values according to this formula:
ship_strength = FP * max(1, min(2, 1 + (FP - 5) / 25))
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 09, 2019, 02:26:10 PM
After playing with SL for some time (again), I have to say that while others might appreciate it, to me it's more annoying for trivial reasons than anything. Traits are completely random and you might end up with ships that have negative combat traits and positive logistic traits. Most of the time, it was random enough that I couldn't count on any appearing, so I just ignored and my ships were slightly better at random things. Aforementioned annoyance was mainly because of contextually bad or unexpected negative traits, but I don't think it had such a profound impact on a ship's performance to be worth that anger. Well, except for loyalty, which didn't come up a lot with my playstyle (of retreating when PPT runs out), but it would probably be the most important thing about this mod if I used SO ships, they can often run longer on CR degradation than on their reduced PPT.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 09, 2019, 03:03:44 PM
That's a sensible complaint. I've actually been meaning to ask you about this since I saw a comment of yours about it on discord. One thing that will be in the next update for sure will be these new settings:
Code
chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips
There has always been a 75% chance to ignore logistical traits on combat ships and vice versa, but I might increase the default to 100% (I've received complaints about it from two others).

Aforementioned annoyance was mainly because of contextually bad or unexpected negative traits
You mean like ships getting bad traits after battles in which they do well?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 09, 2019, 10:13:42 PM
I don't mind it per se, but I had an extreme situation where a ship had 3 positive logistic traits and 3 negative combat traits.
As for bad traits, I mean -armour for low-tech, -shields for high-tech, -speed for midline, that kind of thing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 10, 2019, 03:12:43 PM
Ok, gotcha. Thanks for explaining.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 13, 2019, 11:52:35 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.13 (BETA)

Ships that are deployed only to mop up fleeing enemies will no longer count as deployed for the battle*
Fixed a few minor formatting issues for battle reports
Added new settings, both of which default to 0.75 (75%)
   chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
   chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips

*Edit: To clarify, this means that ships deployed in a follow-up pursuit will no longer count as deployed for battle, if the player is pursuing. Ships still count as deployed if the pursuit is the only engagement of the battle, or if the player's fleet is being pursued.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: AudaciousBS on June 13, 2019, 05:19:14 PM
Added new settings, both of which default to 0.75 (75%)
   chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
   chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips
Sweet! Can't wait to see how this plays.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 13, 2019, 05:41:32 PM
Added new settings, both of which default to 0.75 (75%)
   chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
   chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips
Sweet! Can't wait to see how this plays.
Just to be clear; there has always been a 75% chance to ignore mismatches between logistics/combat traits and ships. This change only exposes those settings in the options file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: erikem on June 27, 2019, 02:06:43 PM
What about weaponless carriers? Will they also receive promotions?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 27, 2019, 04:56:22 PM
Yes, they will. They might still get traits that affect weapons though
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: yapper107 on June 29, 2019, 02:17:01 AM
How do traits affect certain ships with multiple parts?  Does it handle it as the Officer bonuses, and apply the effects of the ships traits to all of the separate sections of the ship, or do the traits only affect the main hull piece? 

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 30, 2019, 08:16:25 AM
How do traits affect certain ships with multiple parts?  Does it handle it as the Officer bonuses, and apply the effects of the ships traits to all of the separate sections of the ship, or do the traits only affect the main hull piece?
Hmm... that's a very good question. Trait effects are applied the same way hullmod and skill effects are applied, so I'd assumed the effects would carry over to sub-parts in both cases, but that might not be the case. Sub-parts are basically implemented as separate ships glued together, so it would make sense for them to have separate stat modifiers. I'll have to devise some experiment or ask around to make sure, but for now I'd say the affects of traits (along with hullmods, dmods, and skills) probably only affect the core section of multi-part ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: crawlers on July 06, 2019, 04:52:40 PM
May you add the option to disable positive traits, so only negative ones show up?  Sometimes, we need suffering, for ships to become ever more cursed as the player's hand brings ruin to everything it touches.

Thank you
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 06, 2019, 05:38:35 PM
Heh, I like your style. You can disable positive traits by setting the following options:
Quote
   "baseRating":0.0,
   "battleDifficultyMult":0.0,
   "damageDealtMult":0.0,
   "showCombatRatings":false,
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on July 08, 2019, 10:38:18 AM
Is damage against fighters/missiles counted in any way. I made a PD boat with AOE anti-missile, anti-fighter missiles etc, but it's rating is really low. I think it only scores when it kills ships with its light darts.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: namad on July 10, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
I've now got some traits on some logistics ships which have never been in combat. This is probably a bug? I will say though that I now have 28 ships in my fleet (I increased max fleet size in the settings file).

Weirdly though the logistics ships which gained these traits were at the bottom of the list of ships, which to me means I think that ship 26,27,28 are the ones that got traits despite never having seen combat, being logistics ships.

So I think your mod must have a number 25 in it somewhere that should maybe be bigger (some sort of number that checks which ships were in the battle or not in the battle?)



That said I just engaged in another battle in which my fleet size was 32 and didn't encounter this issue.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on July 10, 2019, 12:41:17 PM
I've now got some traits on some logistics ships which have never been in combat. This is probably a bug? I will say though that I now have 28 ships in my fleet (I increased max fleet size in the settings file).

Weirdly though the logistics ships which gained these traits were at the bottom of the list of ships, which to me means I think that ship 26,27,28 are the ones that got traits despite never having seen combat, being logistics ships.

Feature, not bug. Purely civilian ships passively get traits while not deployed. There are settings options in the mod .ini file to control whether they should get traits, and their chances of getting combat-relevant or logistics-relevant traits.

This should probably be mentioned more prominently on the first post.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: namad on July 10, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
Oh I'm fine with it if it's a feature, I probably didn't realize because my tankers and cargo ships had previously been hounds/shepards, which if not deployed never get any traits. These new salvage rigs and ox's did. That sounds fair. If I'll never deploy it, I guess it makes sense to get traits anyways!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 10, 2019, 02:25:41 PM
Is damage against fighters/missiles counted in any way.
Nope. Only hull damage and battle difficulty increase rating above 50%. The formula is in the FAQs under"How do I increase combat rating?"
Unfortunately, dedicated support ships do tend to get screwed a bit.

This should probably be mentioned more prominently on the first post.
Agreed! Updated the FAQs to mention this under "What options does this mod provide?"
Might give that it's own FAQ later though. The original post needs a lot of work.
Thanks for answering btw!

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Darloth on July 19, 2019, 01:27:32 PM
Hi, love the mod but minor bug report:

(http://puu.sh/DUSSo/f286ff848d.png)

I know my screen is now comically tiny (1280x1024) but the Inflicted column is taking up quite a lot of room and Reputation basically demands a tooltip anyway, so can we get just a teensy bit more space for Rating so I can see what it increased or decreased by please?

Obviously this won't be a problem for the 90% of you who have a widescreen monitor, but I doubt changing it would incur a problem for them either? Hopefully?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 19, 2019, 02:35:51 PM
Good point! Rating is supposed to be fully visible at any resolution, as it's rather important. I'll make sure that's fixed for the next release.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Histidine on July 19, 2019, 06:56:38 PM
Is there a way to tell which ships have non-Indifferent loyalty (particularly positive loyalty) to which officers?

I had a problem recently when I loaded an old save, tried shuffling some ships and officers around, then had a bit of trouble figuring out which officers to put back on which ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 19, 2019, 08:14:18 PM
There's no good way to do that at the moment. Ideally that sort of thing would be visible on the officer assignment screen, but I doubt there's a practical way to make that happen. I'll see what I can do. I might add a section to the hullmod tooltip to show loyalties when no officer is assigned.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 05, 2019, 12:13:02 PM
I'm planning on changing the way ratings are calculated by default and I thought some of you might want to weigh in. The basic idea is to remove the concept of "battle difficulty" from starship legends unless ruthless sector is also running. The new default formulas would be:

Without ruthless sector:
Code
rating = 0.5 - damageTaken*0.5 + damageDealt*0.25
With ruthless sector:
Code
rating = 0.25 + battleDifficulty*0.3 - damageTaken + max(0, damageDealt-1)*0.25
And for reference, this is the current formula:
Code
rating = 0.5 + battleDifficulty*0.25 - damageTaken + max(0, damageDealt-1)*0.25

Other things I've been working on that should make it into the next update:
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on August 05, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
Could damageDealt be all damage dealt (after damage type multipliers are applied) to missiles, shields, armor, & hull (ships & fighters)? That would allow dedicated PD vessels to be rewarded somewhat, so long as they are actively doing their job, as well as rewarding ships that only manage to damage shields/armor (e.g. broke a station's shields & armor but then had to be retreat due to taking damage). The only unbalanced part that I can think of would be racking up huge damage counts when hammering on a shielded ship that you can never actually kill, but I don't think this would happen often.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 05, 2019, 01:57:53 PM
Yeah, it's possible, but I haven't thought of a way to do it that wouldn't cause huge problems with gameplay. My main concern is incentivising the manipulation of scores by dragging combat out in order to deal more damage to shields or fighters. However, I am well aware that dedicated PD ships are a niche that is underestimated by the rating system, and I'd like to find a solution to that. Unfortunately, every solution I've considered has been worse than the problem itself.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Lionion on August 05, 2019, 08:56:50 PM
It's probably not as broken as you think considering that you need either a shitload of command points (with a command center hullmod) to farm damage with a fleet or a lot of supplies when you are soloing, and that enemy ai generally decides to retreat if they see no way to win (i.e. player constantly dunking on the fighers/drones and gimping their regen).

If anything right now the mod heavily rewards flankers and damage dealers that it becomes almost comical after a certain point that almost all your destroyers have 80+ rating whereas your Onslaught capital ship has sub 40% because of all the armor/hull tanking it has to do.

Considering a loyalty mechanic is already in place and there are historical examples of ships that survive insane structural damage that they become famous for it, I would even argue surviving combat with hull damage should count towards the combat rating.

To offset the positive rating bloat, maybe take into consideration the number of system malfunctions, the time ships spend in reduced CR to offset it?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 05, 2019, 09:54:08 PM
Hey, thanks for the feedback and welcome to the community!

So my concerns about awarding rating for support damage aren't about realism or avoiding rating bloat so much as avoiding perverse incentives. For example, if ships gained rating for taking structural damage, then many people would intentionally damage their own ships. I'm open to ideas for leveling the playing field for ships that aren't damage dealers, but it's out of the question to award rating for anything that would encourage people to prolong battles for the sake of rating. Hull damage works because it's a finite resource that you want to strip away from your opponent as quickly as possible whether you're doing it to improve rating or just to win the battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 08, 2019, 06:52:44 PM
Starship Legends 1.2.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

Added 12 new traits:
   Battle Scarred / Scrap Heap - Adjusted effects from lasting damage (d-mods). Only earned after ship recovery
   Skilled/Inept Survey Team - Further reduces supplies required for surveys. Only for ships with built-in surveying equipment
   Blockade Runner - Increases speed boost at zero flux. Only for ships with built-in shielded cargo holds
   Cool/Hot-running Drive Stabilizer - Adjusts sensor profile by quite a bit. Only for ships with built-in drive field stabilizers (like the Ox)
   Comm Support - CP recovery while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   Nav Support - Speed bonus for all ships while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   ECM Support - ECM rating bonus while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   Cursed - Spontaneous malfunction chance. Only earned after ship recovery
   Phase-mad Crew - Malfunction chance while phased. Only earned after ship recovery by ships with built-in phase fields
Added console commands: AddTrait, SetLoyalty, AdjustTraits, ClearRep, ListTraitEffects, SetRating, SetTraitEffectMult, and List traits
Added supplimentary details to battle reports, including lists of enemy ships destroyed and routed
Added a section to reputation hullmod tooltips that shows the officers with the most loyalty (only when no officer is assigned)
Added a new setting for easily changing the potency of trait effects: "globalEffectMult"
Added an alternative settings file to be used only when ruthless sector is active: RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
Added an error pop-up when used with old versions of Starsector
Added a file for adjusting the percent of damage taken that is counted for rating calculation: "\sun_sl\data\hull_regen_ships.csv"
   This is primarily for ships that regenerate hull damage, and currently only applies to the Excelsior and Royco (from ship and weapon pack), with a 50% reduction
   Please let me know of any other ships that regenerate hull and should be adjusted
Fixed battle reports not being sorted by date and time
Fixed rating colum of battle reports being too narrow at very low resolutions
Fixed starship legends calculating battle difficulty when ruthless sector reports a battle difficulty of 0% due to reload penalties
Changed logic for trait prominance changes to prevent insignificant swapping of trait positions
Changed battle report notification for trait prominance changes to mention both traits that swapped places
Changed default rating calculation to exclude battle difficulty
Changed: ships deployed only to mop up fleeing enemies are again counted as deployed for the battle
Changed ship strength calculation to be overriden by ruthless sector if it is also active
Changed traits that affect crew losses to also apply to losses taken by fighters
Changed XP required to guarantee new traits. It has been lowered for all tiers:
   Notable          160k -> 80k
   Well Known     640k -> 400k
   Famous          2560k -> 2000k
   Legendary      10240k -> 10000k
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 09, 2019, 10:35:37 AM
Hello
Very interesting mod you made,sir
So my concerns about awarding rating for support damage aren't about realism or avoiding rating bloat so much as avoiding perverse incentives. For example, if ships gained rating for taking structural damage, then many people would intentionally damage their own ships. I'm open to ideas for leveling the playing field for ships that aren't damage dealers, but it's out of the question to award rating for anything that would encourage people to prolong battles for the sake of rating. Hull damage works because it's a finite resource that you want to strip away from your opponent as quickly as possible whether you're doing it to improve rating or just to win the battle.
To be honest this type of players would just play with no penalties option or abuse the game in either way. I don't see the point to try to go against them at the expense of legit players.
Some bonus rating for PD and reduced penalty for low tech ships(as they suppose to tank with armor) should be great.
Maybe use lost crew as some sort of reducing rating thing. I mean if your crew get shoot to bits but nobody died then its more notable than ship that vent half the crew after some ricochet hit it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 09, 2019, 04:01:48 PM
Hello
Very interesting mod you made,sir
Hi! Thanks for your interest

To be honest this type of players would just play with no penalties option or abuse the game in either way.
I don't think that's the case. These aren't exploits we're talking about, just mechanics that reward annoying behavior. Yes, some players limit themselves with self-imposed rules in order to avoid annoying game mechanics. I do it all the time. That doesn't mean games should have annoying mechanics.

I'll give some more thought to making rating calculations more fair to combat support ships in a way that doesn't introduce perverse incentives, but I can't promise results.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Lionion on August 10, 2019, 12:44:38 AM
As long as there is a coherent set of rules, there will always be a way to abuse, exploit, skirt around those rules. Even at the current state of the mod, you can arguably micromanage to herd enemy ships so your flagship can get all of the kills. Wouldn't this arguably be the exact same thing with damage dealt, not damage absorbed?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zalpha on August 10, 2019, 04:45:17 AM
I am just throwing a random thought out there but is there a way you could be reward based on trade done? Not sure how or what the perk would be but I think being a merchant captain sounds nice. I do not know how but so far I have been able to go hours in my new game without getting into any combat and have been making good trades along the way and picking up good ships too. First time I have experienced that and it has been fun but my captains haven't gotten any experience because of it. So I am the only one leveling.

I love the mod and am waiting for the stable version to come out before updating again. Thanks for your continued work and effort into it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Erythion on August 10, 2019, 06:29:35 AM
I fought multiple skirmishes in one battle against a raid, but only the last skirmish gets a report...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sinigr on August 10, 2019, 02:27:11 PM
Do you undestand that hull damage system is stupid? It makes ships with bad shields or tactics without using shields unsuitable. And here is always some risk to take some hull damage to make fight faster, but we control it to prevent death. You are mad man, i think.

ECM Support - ECM rating bonus while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
You suggest deploy some colossus into battle? Omg, you are really mad man.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 10, 2019, 03:46:11 PM
On fighter damage contributing to battle rating
After giving this quite a bit of thought, I think I've come up with a way to make this work without causing any gameplay problems. The only issue is that it'll probably take me a full day of work to get working properly, so I might not be able to add it any time soon.

As long as there is a coherent set of rules, there will always be a way to abuse, exploit, skirt around those rules. Even at the current state of the mod, you can arguably micromanage to herd enemy ships so your flagship can get all of the kills.
You're right about every set of rules being abusable to some degree, and you're right that the current rating system is somewhat abusable. The difference is in how abusable the rules are. The current rating rules do very little to encourage bizarre or annoying gameplay, but a lot of the suggestions I get for adjusting the rules would be downright broken.

Wouldn't this arguably be the exact same thing with damage dealt, not damage absorbed?
Not sure what you mean by this. Would you mind clarifying?

I am just throwing a random thought out there but is there a way you could be reward based on trade done?
I really like the idea of civilian ships earning logistical traits for taking part in non-combat activities. I've added this to my list and I'll see what I can do!
(Also: you're missing out on the best part of the game!)

I love the mod and am waiting for the stable version to come out before updating again. Thanks for your continued work and effort into it.
Thanks! I'm glad you like it  ;D
As for stability: No one has reported any bugs to me yet, but the beta has only been out for two days, so there's still a decent chance there are a few well-hidden ones.

I fought multiple skirmishes in one battle against a raid, but only the last skirmish gets a report...
Yup. You get one battle report for each battle, no matter how many engagements the battle consists of. The report adds up the data for all of the engagements.

Do you undestand that hull damage system is stupid?
I'm afraid I don't, but you're certainly welcome to attempt to enlighten me. A word to the wise though: if you want to change my mind about something, you're better off being civil.

ECM Support - ECM rating bonus while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
You suggest deploy some colossus into battle? Omg, you are really mad man.
The support traits are a bit of an experimental feature, for sure, but yes, I really am hoping those traits will encourage people to deploy civilian ships into battle for the sake of the bonuses they can provide. Hopefully they'll add an interesting twist. We'll see!  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 12, 2019, 09:31:25 AM
What about making PD damage or even shield damage secondary(or tertiary) aspect with capped values? So they can effect to some point but at much lesser rate?

Also what about crew losses? Could it also affect somewhat rating?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 12, 2019, 10:07:02 AM
What about making PD damage or even shield damage secondary(or tertiary) aspect with capped values? So they can effect to some point but at much lesser rate?
Well, the idea I have in mind for PD damage (against fighters) would have a sort of cap, although it might be too unconventional to actually call it that. A straightforward cap on support damage was one of the first things I originally considered, but it does very little to mitigate the original problem. Yes, it would discourage people from infinitely farming damage against fighters, but they would still want to make sure to hit the cap. That's not such a big deal if the cap is low, but with a low cap it would fail to adequately reward dedicated PD ships.

Also what about crew losses? Could it also affect somewhat rating?
Crew loss is based almost entirely on the hull damage a ship takes. The main difference between the two (mechanically) is that crew losses are easier to manipulate with skills and hullmods (a bad thing imo), and that carriers would be at a massive disadvantage due to how often they lose crew from fighter losses (a very bad thing imo).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zalpha on August 12, 2019, 11:12:20 AM
I really like the idea of trying to encourage civilian ship use as I avoid them like the plague when modded ships do their job and offer more. If this mod offered perks targeted towards them specifically that would be great. I am not sure how anything works (so ignore this if I am wrong or way off) but maybe there could be benefits for captains who that tag along with the fleet but not get deployed into battle and for those that do get deployed into battle. Not sure what they would be but you get the idea that there would be a difference between a tag along captain (pure utility ship) and a captain in a deployed civilian re-fitted into a combat vessel. Just a thought, not sure of how stuff works and all that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JDCollie on August 12, 2019, 11:33:55 PM
Do you undestand that hull damage system is stupid? It makes ships with bad shields or tactics without using shields unsuitable. And here is always some risk to take some hull damage to make fight faster, but we control it to prevent death. You are mad man, i think.
I disagree. The idea behind the mod is the reputation the ships develop among the people who crew them. Ships that regularly take hull damage and therefore lose crew are going develop reputations of being ill-fated even if they are statistically successful. And anyway ships with bad shields generally have good armor. Ships with bad armor generally have good shields. Ships that have neither are either compensated in another way such as mobility or standoff firepower, or are bad ships. (At least for combat anyway.)  As for tactics, well, a ship that has good shields/armor, but refuses to use them because of the tactics of the captain? Well, I don't think it's unreasonable to think the crew wouldn't be particularly loyal.

Granted, this is all from an immersion perspective. From a gameplay one, look at the formula. So long as the fleet you deploy is roughly equal to the one you face, and your ship inflicts more than it's own deployment cost in hull damage, you will see good combat ratings. I don't mean to be critical, but if ships using your "unshielded tactics" are unable to pull a good rating, then perhaps they actually aren't preforming as solidly as you believe they are?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Lionion on August 13, 2019, 03:34:27 AM
It's impossible not to take hull damage if you armor tank. Armor damage mitigation isn't 100% and HE weapons chew through armor with ease. You are almost certainly bound to lose some hull unless you are an Alpha AI yourself. Loss of hull is loss of CR, hence the mod's bias towards fast and agile destroyers with medium or large weapon mounts.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Euripides on August 13, 2019, 04:34:47 AM
Shields can indefinitely tank damage so long as the damage never exceeds its capacity/recharge rate - you could take a hit once every 30 seconds forever.

Armor does not have that. You will eventually chew through armor, becuase it doesn't regenerate like shields do. This puts any armor focused design at a disadvantage in this mod. The amount of damage an armor-based ship can tank before it takes hull damage is fundamentally finite. The amount of damage a shield-based ship can tank can theoretically be infinite - something armor tanking cannot match.

The hull damage model very clearly disadvantages armor tanked designs compared to shield tanked designs.

The problem is finding a better way to simulate what the mod aims for. Hull damage is good enough, it could be better - maybe we can brainstorm some ideas in the thread.



Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on August 13, 2019, 04:36:31 AM
If armor-focused ships are being penalized too harshly, maybe high-armor ships should have the penalties for taking hull damage reduced, with "high-armor" being defined relative to the ship's size - a 450 armor Brawler wouldn't lose as much rating from hull damage as a 150 armor Wolf, but the 1000 armor Odyssey would still be penalized heavily because it's lightly-armored for a capital ship. This is sort of a thing (armor protects hull, after all) but a light-armor ship taking hull damage is usually from being overwhelmed or from a mistake like a torpedo impact, while high-armor ships use it to tank on the regular.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zalpha on August 13, 2019, 05:30:50 AM
I don't know how all this stuff works but what if rather than being focused on armor it was focused on crew members lost in combat. Maybe there could be other buffs/de-buffs for those lost on salvaging missions, that is if crew member losses could be a thing?
Edit: I forgot and just thought about how this would include fighter plans from cruisers, which isn't a good thing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on August 13, 2019, 11:19:34 AM
I think the hull damage model is fine. Ships with high armor still use their shields to block HE and incidental damage. High tech ships still use their armor to tank kinetic rounds. Thats what those defensive systems are for, they just have different capacities depending on design type. Shields are "infinite" for everyone.

Having negative rep be based on crew killed is interesting though, as it would give a reason to install blast doors - to improve the morale of the troops!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: lwki on August 13, 2019, 11:54:17 AM
Can you explain how does reputation growth work on reserved ships?
maxXpForReservedShips is the max experience reserved ships can get from combat encounter or is it overriding max xp to guarantee new trait?
Does traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips multiply the chances of getting a trait? What chances? I thought traits were guaranteed? Reserved ships get a chance of getting a new trait at maxXpForReservedShips?

Wanted to play around with settings but its kinda hard to understand if you don't know how the mod works
Great mod btw, thank you
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 13, 2019, 09:59:21 PM
Can you explain how does reputation growth work on reserved ships?
Sure, although it's likely to change in the near future. Currently, all ships gain traits based on the amount of XP earned from battles. If a battle awards 46 XP and xpToGuaranteeNewTrait is 100, then there will be a 46% chance to earn a new trait. For civilian ships the XPearned from battle is multiplied by 0.25 (traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips), and capped at 320k XP (maxXpForReservedShips)

Wanted to play around with settings but its kinda hard to understand if you don't know how the mod works
Yeah, at some point I need to expand the FAQs and add more comments to the config file.

Great mod btw, thank you
Thanks! My pleasure  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 14, 2019, 04:00:10 AM
The hull damage work right now but I think it could work better. It sure put armor tanking ships in worse position.
I think rating could use secondary trait based on crew damage.
Sure you could affect it by officer skills/mods but you can boost hull with it too.
Sure it would affect carriers but be honest with me: would you like to serve on carrier that go through dozens of expendable pilots by battle? I bet not - also there are both officer skills/fleet skills/mods to reduce it.
There of course could be different way to count rating for different ships. With some bonuses/penalties based on ship type.
Like low tech would be more affected by lost crew than by hull damage when in case of carriers lost crew would affect rating less.

Anyway really great addition to gameplay.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on August 14, 2019, 04:17:34 AM
I've made account just to post this :)

I think the idea behind this mod is great. Bonuses are not overwhelming yet make me stick to my ship longer. Also makes it more unique, as it may lead player to upgrade ones ship to play into reputation strengths.

I downloaded the 1.2.0 BETA and here is my feedback thus far:
NOTE: I don't understand exactly how various things are calculated and I base following observations on the way things felt when they happened. It is entirely possible that things work differently, I just couldn't tell.

1. There are some weird interactions with, possibly, Ruthless Sector? Something to do with how battle difficulty is calculated or XP is handed out post battle. I fight non-stop against fleets that have numerical superiority (ie. 1 me vs 10 ships) and somehow I cannot break past combat rating of 65% in my destroyer. Seriously, I pulled 2 cruiser kills + 7 frigates with a single destroyer and my rating went from 65% to 67%. In previous version I had no such issues and went past 70% easily. I cannot imagine what kind of odds need to be stacked against me to go up to 90% right now.

2. Combat rating system as implemented punishes hit-and-run tactics, as it cannot distinguish between orderly retreat and total defeat. Basically the only way to rise it is to go in enemies face and nuke it out. I did two runs against one huge convoy and even though both times I pulled out with around 20-30% hull (and many kills), my rating went down from 65% down to ~50%. I got entire convoy third time. Went up to like 53%? I mean I just killed smth like 20 ships with a single destroyer. Give me some cred :P

3. Does hull damage affect battle combat rating? It seems to do so and tbh I don't think its good idea. Battle performance is already measured by number of kills/damage player manages to deal and it punishes armor ships that always end up with some hull damage. As a result fast and maneuverable shield tanked ships get much higher CR.

4. While not necessarily a bad design choice, some reputations are game changing for given hulls and some are not very useful. Ie. basic 4% of Strong Armor on puny destroyer with paper thin armor vs same bonus on Onslaught... 3% of Strong Engines on same overdriven destroyer? Frigate killer.

5. Current system punishes pirate play style a lot... like, I hunt smugglers, trade convoys etc. to get supplies when in hostile territory or when non are available and every single time my combat rating goes down because I pick on too easy targets... which forces me to attack bigger convoys... which I need to raid several times to chip down annoying ships... which lowers my CR even more... you see where this is going :P

6. Right now I am not even sure how lost in combat rating is calculated, but I went once against hegemony fleet detachment (solo, they bounced off Hyperspace Storm and got me) and while I cleared all frigates and destroyers while under heavy fire from cruisers and capitals... I got -7% to CR... like seriously? Haven't I just done something epic? If I would do the same thing without hundreds of Pilum missiles flying around and won, my rating would go up.

Suggestions:
1. Ignore hull damage to ship when calculating score for won battle.

2. Factor in hull damage to ship when calculating score for battle from which player retreated (would work nice with hit-and-run), so that i.e. if 0% hull damage then CR penalty for losing would also equal 0%.

3. Lower player combat rating for lost battles based on actual number of ships lost.

4. MAYBE only battles that can rise combat rating can also affect it negatively? I mean, I get that - killing small smuggler fleets is nothing glorious, but cruising around and around just to find the fleet of right size is just not fun.

Edit:
I noticed how difficulty is calculated in Ruthless Sector and now I see what was the problem with point 1. What got me was that "1% per player level factor in calculation of player's fleet strength. Since I fought 1 vs 10 from the very start, I got ton of XP and raised my character level super fast to almost level 30, so for the purpose of strength calculation I got 30% stronger.

Also, when I look at my fleet strength evaluation I also think that your mod counts player level twice. Once as that "1%" and second time as "2.5% per officer level" when strength of individual ship is calculated.

Now tell me if I am wrong, but I don't think that even level 50 player in frigate is going to contribute to a fight as much as a carrier, but according to the formula he would add more fleet strength. Unless, everything went into "fleet" skills. I can see why it was done that way, however it not going to work in all situations. Luckily its very easy to tweak in settings :) Amazing mod!

I would suggest adding some more text to FAQ, ie. "If you enjoy playing small, you might want to change the [setting] to [something]".

Edit 2:
Further reading also allowed me to deal with point 6... kinda. There is this "maxBattleDifficultyEstimation" set at default to be 2.0. I think you put a limit, so that even super impressive victory would not catapult player up to level 20 or higher in one go? Now this will also limit how your combat rating is going to rise from same victory, wouldn't it?

Is it possible to add another factor in xp calculation? Like "whatever XP I get... multiply it by 0.5". That way I can make impressive battles to have more impressive impact on ships' reputation, but by lowering overall XP by a factor of XYZ, prevent suddenly becoming too high level frigate pilot.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 14, 2019, 10:33:10 AM
On crew losses factoring into combat rating:
As far as I can tell, the only advantage this would have is to slightly improve realism, which in my opinion comes nowhere close to overcoming the major problems it would introduce. For me to consider this change would require a persuasive argument that it would improve gameplay mechanics, which, so far, I haven't seen.

On heavily armored / weakly shielded ships being at a disadvantage:
I still don't think they actually are. At least, not inherently. Some highly armored ships are weak, but that's just a matter of ship balance. Ships have many ways to avoid taking hull damage (armor, shields, phase cloaks, ship systems, point defense, and (perhaps most importantly) firepower), and armor isn't the only one of these that is non renewable. Armor has the same trade-off as missiles; its far more effective in the short term, but depletes over time.
Furthermore, I haven't found armored ships to be at a disadvantage in my personal gameplay experience. In fact, the two flagships I've used most often in 0.9.1 were both armor tanks with Heavy Armor installed and either weak shields (Conquest), or none at all (Doom). In spite of not relying on shields with either, I had no trouble maintaining a rating above 90% for both (disclaimer: I always spec into combat  ;)). For AI piloted ships, too, I never noticed any significant differences in rating between ships of different defensive types. I didn't do nearly enough testing for that kind of evidence to be anything like conclusive, of course, but in practice I'm just not seeing a trend of ships that rely on armor being magnets for hull damage.

@ActuallyUlysses
Hi! Thanks for the feedback and welcome to the community  :)

First of all, I think I've failed to make a few things clear. Most importantly; battle difficulty is only based on the number of ships you deploy, not the total number of ships in your fleet, so you can increase battle difficulty by deploying fewer ships. In fact, one of the main goals of ruthless sector is to encourage you to do so.

Both starship legends and ruthless sector involve math that can be important to understand, and unfortunately I haven't found a good way to explain how the math works in-game yet. Until then, there's a lot of information in the FAQs sections of both mods that explains how things work in detail.

To address most of your feedback point-by-point:
Spoiler
There are some weird interactions with, possibly, Ruthless Sector? Something to do with how battle difficulty is calculated or XP is handed out post battle. I fight non-stop against fleets that have numerical superiority (ie. 1 me vs 10 ships) and somehow I cannot break past combat rating of 65% in my destroyer. Seriously, I pulled 2 cruiser kills + 7 frigates with a single destroyer and my rating went from 65% to 67%. In previous version I had no such issues and went past 70% easily. I cannot imagine what kind of odds need to be stacked against me to go up to 90% right now.
A few things that might account for this:
Ships of the same size are often far from equal. A harbinger will count as five buffalo mk.II for example. If the buffalo has a bunch of permanent damage, the harbinger might even count as more than 10 of them. All civilian ships count as 0
Ruthless sector scales the estimation of the strength of your ships with your level, so in the example above, a single harbinger could count for as many as 15 buffalo mk.II if your character level is 50. The default configuration of ruthless sector is meant to be difficult even for players with several hundred hours of experience.

2. Combat rating system as implemented punishes hit-and-run tactics, as it cannot distinguish between orderly retreat and total defeat.
The rating system doesn't even distinguish between victory and defeat. It's all about the odds you were up against and hull damage dealt vs sustained.

I did two runs against one huge convoy and even though both times I pulled out with around 20-30% hull (and many kills), my rating went down from 65% down to ~50%. I got entire convoy third time. Went up to like 53%? I mean I just killed smth like 20 ships with a single destroyer. Give me some cred :P
Hmm... This is a strategy I haven't really considered. Usually when people use a single ship to fight a fleet they retreat in order to refresh PPT (peak performance time) or switch to a different ship, but they still re-engage without ending the battle outright. I'll have to give some thought to how this type of strategy should be handled.

4. While not necessarily a bad design choice, some reputations are game changing for given hulls and some are not very useful.
Yup. A big part of the reason traits are randomized is so that ships that are lucky enough to get a bunch of relevant positive traits feel special.

Suggestions:
Some of these are vague or seem to be based on false premises, so for now I'll avoid responding to them individually unless you want to reiterate/clarify (Sorry, I've been responding to feedback for several hours now)

Also, when I look at my fleet strength evaluation I also think that your mod counts player level twice. Once as that "1%" and second time as "2.5% per officer level" when strength of individual ship is calculated.
Nope. Your player character doesn't count as an officer for this exact reason.

Now tell me if I am wrong, but I don't think that even level 50 player in frigate is going to contribute to a fight as much as a carrier, but according to the formula he would add more fleet strength.
Heh, let me tell you about our lord and saviour, the Afflictor class phase frigate...  ;)

Unless, everything went into "fleet" skills. I can see why it was done that way, however it not going to work in all situations. Luckily its very easy to tweak in settings :) Amazing mod!
Thanks! Yeah, the settings files were definitely worth the effort for mods like these. The character level influence on battle difficulty can definitely be a bit awkward in some situations, but I don't think it's possible to account for player character skills in any accurate way. I think of it more as a way to increase difficulty as the game progresses.

I would suggest adding some more text to FAQ, ie. "If you enjoy playing small, you might want to change the [setting] to [something]".
Ideally, I'd prefer for the default settings to accommodate all playstyles and fleet sizes. Your feedback has helped inform me about ways it might fail to do so. I'll have to think about possible adjustments.

Further reading also allowed me to deal with point 6... kinda. There is this "maxBattleDifficultyEstimation" set at default to be 2.0. I think you put a limit, so that even super impressive victory would not catapult player up to level 20 or higher in one go? Now this will also limit how your combat rating is going to rise from same victory, wouldn't it?
Precisely.

Is it possible to add another factor in xp calculation? Like "whatever XP I get... multiply it by 0.5". That way I can make impressive battles to have more impressive impact on ships' reputation, but by lowering overall XP by a factor of XYZ, prevent suddenly becoming too high level frigate pilot.
There's a vanilla setting for that called xpGainMult in "\starsector-core\data\config\settings.json"
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on August 14, 2019, 01:56:39 PM
@Sundog
Thanks for lengthy reply. I will explain my reasoning for my suggestions, but don't feel like you need to address those if you would otherwise work on improving your wonderful mods :)

1. Ignoring hull damage for purpose of estimating CR gain after winning battle.
You incentive very cautious gameplay by punishing hull damage. One can claim, that this is how highly skilled player would play, but one can also claim that such playstyle lacks tad bit of bravado. Swinging in, exchanging broadside fire with enemy? Nope, it's better to kite them to death... And you avoid this whole "is armour tank disadvantaged by this" debate.

2. On using hull damage when calculating CR gain after retreat
 Hull damage can be good indication of how successful hit-and-run raid was as the whole point is to attack and run before enemy can hit back. Also it is an indication of how successful retreat was.

3. On lowering CR based on number of lost ships
I think you mentioned that the game does not care if I win or lose? If all that matters is relative strength of deployed fleets, why losing a battle after retreat lowers CR?

4. (Maybe) CR can only fall if player could potentially increase it in given battle.
Currently, I will avoid fighting weak fleets at all cost, because fighting them would lower my CR. This punishes whole set of activities:
- killing smuggler to affect supply? Let's hope his fleet is big enough not to tank my CR
- pirate fleet on radar? Ups, too small, let other bounty hunter to take care of it
- oh look a supply convoy I got intel on and wanted to kill... Tsk, got into fight on way here and now its too weak...
Your solution for that problem is to field weaker ships but I am not sure how that will hold up when I am high level character. Basically you are punishing for being successful and earning levels or not traveling with small ships in fleet.

Lastly, I would add in FAQ a short guide on how to play with default setting and what to look for in order to reach high CR
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: vlad_1492 on August 16, 2019, 03:59:07 AM
Looks like I am late to the kudos party.

This mod is wonderful fun, really added some storytelling to my playthrough.

Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 16, 2019, 03:14:08 PM
@vlad_1492: You're quite welcome! Glad you like it ;D

@ActuallyUlysses:
Spoiler
Thanks for lengthy reply. I will explain my reasoning for my suggestions, but don't feel like you need to address those if you would otherwise work on improving your wonderful mods :)
As time consuming as it is to reply to feedback sometimes, I find that it's often much more useful than simply reading it because responding forces me to think through the pros and cons of a given issue.

You incentive very cautious gameplay by punishing hull damage.  One can claim, that this is how highly skilled player would play, but one can also claim that such playstyle lacks tad bit of bravado. Swinging in, exchanging broadside fire with enemy? Nope, it's better to kite them to death...
It's true that starship legends penalizes players for hull damage, but the base game does too, so I don't think it deviates from vanilla design goals in that regard. Part of what makes Starsector's combat great in my opinion is that it encourages players to be as aggressive as they can without making unnecessary sacrifices, and I think starship legend's rating system should reflect that (at least by default anyway).
Kiting isn't always the best way to avoid damage. Sometimes it's safer to charge in to make a quick kill.

2. On using hull damage when calculating CR gain after retreat
 Hull damage can be good indication of how successful hit-and-run raid was as the whole point is to attack and run before enemy can hit back. Also it is an indication of how successful retreat was.
You're talking about the hull damage you dealt to enemy ships? Still not sure what you're actually suggesting here.

I think you mentioned that the game does not care if I win or lose? If all that matters is relative strength of deployed fleets, why losing a battle after retreat lowers CR?
For the same reasons it might be lowered after a victory. The calculation is always the same.

Your solution for that problem is to field weaker ships but I am not sure how that will hold up when I am high level character. Basically you are punishing for being successful and earning levels or not traveling with small ships in fleet.
Ok, gotcha. So if you want to avoid the added penalties for deploying as many ships as you want, you should disable the whole battle difficulty mechanic from ruthless sector. The entire point of it is to discourage over-deployment. Here are the relevant settings:
RUTHLESS_SECTOR_OPTIONS.ini
    showBattleDifficultyNotification
    scaleXpGainBasedOnBattleDifficulty
RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
    battleDifficultyMult
    baseRating (not related to battle difficulty, but you might want to change it to compensate for the lost rating boost from battle difficulty)

Lastly, I would add in FAQ a short guide on how to play with default setting and what to look for in order to reach high CR
Yeah, I should definitely expand on that. The FAQ needs a lot of improvement in general, tbh.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: kilerdude56 on August 16, 2019, 10:01:33 PM
Quick question, if you're max level for your character, will your ship not get any experience to get traits? Or is that completely not how it works.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 17, 2019, 04:50:03 PM
Not how it works. Even at max level, your character will continue to accrue experience. I don't think there's any point at which your character will stop gaining experience, but if you suspect otherwise, please let me know. That would be a serious problem.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Erythion on August 17, 2019, 06:32:25 PM
Code
# COMBAT RATING CALCULATION #
"baseRating":0.5,
"battleDifficultyMult":0.5,
"damageTakenMult":3.0,
"damageDealtMult":0.5,
"damageDealtMinThreshold":0.0
I have these as my config and I'm quite satisfied with it. It doesn't overly punish deployed ships that only deal flux damage (had a lot of them, just pure needlers and ions), rewards seeing combat with >.5 rating, but greatly punishes taking damage.

But then my single Victory ship deals 700% damage each and every fight because all the enemy is already softened by the support ships and gets better reputation every time... Maybe I'm too generous with myself :P
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on August 18, 2019, 04:08:52 AM
1. Ignoring hull damage for purpose of estimating CR gain after winning battle.
You incentive very cautious gameplay by punishing hull damage. One can claim, that this is how highly skilled player would play, but one can also claim that such playstyle lacks tad bit of bravado. Swinging in, exchanging broadside fire with enemy? Nope, it's better to kite them to death... And you avoid this whole "is armour tank disadvantaged by this" debate.

The rating system doesn't primarily incentivize avoiding hull damage unless your ship also does very little damage. Doing lots of damage relative to how much your ship is worth is a lot more significant for rating contribution than the % of hull damage taken; in extreme cases I've personally gotten more than 10% rating gain in a battle where my ship was destroyed.

This isn't even necessarily a player-only thing; I have some recklessly-piloted AI ships that take large amounts of hull damage regularly, but stay at 100% rating because they kill very large numbers of enemy ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Rutaki on August 18, 2019, 08:32:17 AM
Starship Legends 1.2.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

Added a file for adjusting the percent of damage taken that is counted for rating calculation: "\sun_sl\data\hull_regen_ships.csv"
   This is primarily for ships that regenerate hull damage, and currently only applies to the Excelsior and Royco (from ship and weapon pack), with a 50% reduction
   Please let me know of any other ships that regenerate hull and should be adjusted

Noir faction ships (mod Artefact) regenerate Hull and Armor in combat while having at least X amount of CR (I believe it is from 85% upwards)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 18, 2019, 12:39:53 PM
Noir faction ships (mod Artefact) regenerate Hull and Armor in combat while having at least X amount of CR (I believe it is from 85% upwards)
Thank you! I'll check out those ships and try to figure out what a good reduction would be for them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 18, 2019, 03:55:52 PM
I think the biggest problem with starship legends is that the rating system is simultaneously too difficult for new players and too easy for expert players. It's also impossible to make the rating system fair. In spite of how much many people would hate it, I'm considering disabling the rating system by default and instead making traits have an equal chance to be good or bad regardless of how well a ship has performed. Or I might just reduce the influence of rating on trait goodness. Open to suggestions!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Taverius on August 19, 2019, 12:38:00 AM
Reduce it so its a more minor thing.

Then while its possible to game it, its not really worth it, and if you screw up or go all science dog no clue what im doing on it its not crippling. And you can also stop worrying about getting it 100% correct, which is impossibru because like all such game systems it WILL be gamed.

I mean personally I'm fine with it as is, but if you have to change it ...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on August 19, 2019, 06:13:12 AM
@Sundog
I think rating system is great. After I tweaked the numbers in settings it works very well for me. I think the issue is that you try to support all types of playstyles with system that does not account for all variations.

Ie. I play small and invest in "piloted ship" skills, meaning that your balancing of how skills affecting fleet strength are off in my case. Luckily you added settings and we are fine.

I understand that it is preferable for mod to work for most people out of the box and account for as much as possible, but in short term I think it's better to make people aware how to tweak it to fit their playstyle. It's really nice to know that your battle performance has a meaningful impact on ship's reputation :)

Edit: without some way of affecting ship's reputation via combat rating it becomes more of a random thing. I think it would help to also ie. Explicitly state that even if ship gets bad rep, it can change in the future. I learned about it recently and felt kinda dumb for selling ships with bad rep instead of working towards improving it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Warmasta on August 20, 2019, 10:11:06 PM
I feel like the disadvantage this mod gives to armor tank ships is realistic.
Think about it, if you are on a ship that regularly gets large chunks blown off it you wouldn't feel very safe, or confident in the ship.
I for one would feel much safer on an astral than an onslaught if a battle were to happen.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on August 21, 2019, 03:51:56 AM
Regarding regenerating ships - couldn't it be auto-detected by looking if he hull/armor values actually goes up in battle?

Or even simpler, if at the end of the battle the damage taken is greater than the total HP value of the ship?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 21, 2019, 07:38:04 AM
I feel like the disadvantage this mod gives to armor tank ships is realistic.
Think about it, if you are on a ship that regularly gets large chunks blown off it you wouldn't feel very safe, or confident in the ship.
I for one would feel much safer on an astral than an onslaught if a battle were to happen.

Well but coming back in one piece but zero casaulties even if shot would be a great morale booster and legend maker.
Also carriers don't suffer at all now if they stay away - even if they have tremendous pilot losses.
Imagine getting send on a carrier that burn dozens fighter pilots per fight - even if ship don't get shoot at.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Euripides on August 21, 2019, 11:12:07 AM
Is it possible to change the mod's settings to punish crew losses more than hull damage?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 21, 2019, 11:32:26 AM
Reduce it so its a more minor thing.
Yeah, I think that's what I'll do.

I think it would help to also ie. Explicitly state that even if ship gets bad rep, it can change in the future. I learned about it recently and felt kinda dumb for selling ships with bad rep instead of working towards improving it.
Yeah, it's been quite a while since I refurbished the original post. I think if I explain things more clearly it would resolve a lot of the issues people run into.

Regarding regenerating ships - couldn't it be auto-detected by looking if he hull/armor values actually goes up in battle?
Yes, that could tell me whether or not a ship has regenerated hull, but it wouldn't tell me how much it relies on regenerating hull as a defense mechanism.

Or even simpler, if at the end of the battle the damage taken is greater than the total HP value of the ship?
Same problem as above, as well as not working if the ship takes less than 100% damage during the battle.

Is it possible to change the mod's settings to punish crew losses more than hull damage?
I'm afraid not. Starship legends doesn't track crew losses at all.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Degernase on August 24, 2019, 05:04:15 PM
Recently got this mod and just finished my first significant battle, I really like the idea of it but there are some issues that are hard to overlook.

First of all, why do reserved ships gain traits? Not only that, it seems to always be negative because they of course didn't contribute.
Secondly I don't really understand how well I'm supposed to perform in order to get a positive trait, sent out my poorly equipped Paragon (still early in the game on this playthrough) and a Outlander against a full Hegemony Grand Invasion Fleet supported by a regular Invasion Fleet in order to protect a Tri-Tachyon colony.

My damage inflicted is 353% and damage sustained is 17%, I got +8.1 rating but regardless of this was rewarded with a negative trait. Really took away any feelings of joy after struggling through a tough battle.

After coming back to the mod page I realized that I'm using the Ruthless Sector settings but even then this seems pretty ridiculous to me.
But it doesn't really explain why reserved ships get bombarded with negative traits, I could live with it being tough to get positive traits but automatic negative traits on non participating ships is a deal breaker. This also increases the frustration of when the AI inevitably pulls some dumb stunt, which is already a point of great mental anguish in my life.

Attached the log below, only the Paragon and Outlander were involved in the initial battle, the others were deployed for chasing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Euripides on August 24, 2019, 06:12:08 PM
I'm finding the rating actually useful for helping me determine which of my ships are underperforming.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 24, 2019, 09:58:26 PM
My damage inflicted is 353% and damage sustained is 17%, I got +8.1 rating but regardless of this was rewarded with a negative trait.
So, with default settings, traits will adjust themselves to match the rating of a ship. For example, a ship with a rating of 70% will gradually adjust it's traits so that 70% of them are good and 30% are bad. So if your paragon already had one good trait, the next one is pretty much guaranteed to be negative because 50% is closer to it's rating of 59% than 100%. Don't worry though, that bad trait will eventually go away if your paragon maintains a high enough rating. There is a way to configure starship legends to award traits based only on performance from the previous battle, as you seem to expect. Take a look at the "options presets" in the original post. You might be interested in the "better immersion" one at the bottom.

First of all, why do reserved ships gain traits? Not only that, it seems to always be negative because they of course didn't contribute.
Civilian ships gain traits even when they're not deployed because there generally isn't any reason to deploy them. Eventually I want to make civilian ships earn traits for experience gained outside of combat instead. There's supposed to be a flat 50% chance for them to gain a good or bad trait, so this looks like a bug to me. The chance for eight ships to get a negative trait at the same time should be less than 0.04%. In fact, given that you're using ruthless sector settings, I think I may know what's wrong and I should be able to fix it in the next day or two. Until then, you might want to use Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) to clear the reputations from your civilian ships.
Quote
clearRep Atlas
clearRep Colosus
clearRep Buffalo
Sorry about the trouble!


I'm finding the rating actually useful for helping me determine which of my ships are underperforming.
It can be handy, but I wouldn't rely on it too much. The rating system is very simplistic and designed with gameplay considerations in mind more than being a proper metric for combat performance. You might be interested in Combat Analytics (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11551.0)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tartiflette on August 25, 2019, 12:44:19 AM
I think a lot of the complains comes from a lack of understanding of the inner working of the mod. Which is a problem given how difficult it is to explain it quickly.

Maybe if the reputation traits where given after a delay instead of after the battle it would disociate them from the direct battle performance. The intel text could also be written with a bit more flavor to point out that the reputation traits aren't necessarily grounded in cold hard facts, especially negative ones.

Another way to deal with it would be to garantee a positive or negative trait if if there is a large swing in combat rating, say more than 5%. That way a really good ship that is cruising to a high combat rating wouln't get stacked with mixed traits that would get replaced over time until it reaches it's nominal rating.

Or maybe a new ship added to the fleet could get a starting rating dependent on its D mods: a pristine one could start at 100% rating since it's brand new and would only get negative traits after loosing that rating, but any dmod present would reduce the starting rating by 15% and early negative traits could be explained by the defective nature of the ship.

Crew loyalty could also be used to completely nullify the effect of negative traits making them more palatable (but wouldn't remove them) instead of improving good traits, while keeping the ppt boost.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Degernase on August 25, 2019, 03:11:39 AM
So, with default settings, traits will adjust themselves to match the rating of a ship. For example, a ship with a rating of 70% will gradually adjust it's traits so that 70% of them are good and 30% are bad. So if your paragon already had one good trait, the next one is pretty much guaranteed to be negative because 50% is closer to it's rating of 59% than 100%. Don't worry though, that bad trait will eventually go away if your paragon maintains a high enough rating. There is a way to configure starship legends to award traits based only on performance from the previous battle, as you seem to expect. Take a look at the "options presets" in the original post. You might be interested in the "better immersion" one at the bottom.
Thanks for the quick reply. I thought you might be able to replace bad traits by gaining enough reputation but then I probably got confused by the 8% reputation gain but still getting a negative trait. But I understand how it works now.

First of all, why do reserved ships gain traits? Not only that, it seems to always be negative because they of course didn't contribute.
Civilian ships gain traits even when they're not deployed because there generally isn't any reason to deploy them. Eventually I want to make civilian ships earn traits for experience gained outside of combat instead. There's supposed to be a flat 50% chance for them to gain a good or bad trait, so this looks like a bug to me. The chance for eight ships to get a negative trait at the same time should be less than 0.04%. In fact, given that you're using ruthless sector settings, I think I may know what's wrong and I should be able to fix it in the next day or two. Until then, you might want to use Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) to clear the reputations from your civilian ships.
Quote
clearRep Atlas
clearRep Colosus
clearRep Buffalo
Sorry about the trouble!
Even if it's a 50/50 system and this was caused by a bug in the Ruthless Sector settings I don't think that's an entirely fair system. Would it not be possible to take the average reputation gain (or loss) of all deployed ships and apply it (or half of it) to those in reserve? The way I understand it you can't ever get them above 50/50 good/bad if you're unable to change their reputation. I hate the idea of a system giving out negative traits that I'm completely unable to affect in any way. Also it was 14 ships (every last one of my civilian ships).



I think a lot of the complains comes from a lack of understanding of the inner working of the mod. Which is a problem given how difficult it is to explain it quickly.

Maybe if the reputation traits where given after a delay instead of after the battle it would disociate them from the direct battle performance. The intel text could also be written with a bit more flavor to point out that the reputation traits aren't necessarily grounded in cold hard facts, especially negative ones.

Another way to deal with it would be to garantee a positive or negative trait if if there is a large swing in combat rating, say more than 5%. That way a really good ship that is cruising to a high combat rating wouln't get stacked with mixed traits that would get replaced over time until it reaches it's nominal rating.
I really like the idea of guaranteeing positive or negative traits if the swing is high enough. Though disassociating reputation traits from combat doesn't make any practical sense since that's the only way to earn or lose reputation.
From a game design point of view you also want to reward or punish players when doing something good or bad and in a way where they can associate the outcome directly with the action they performed (such as doing very well or very poorly in a fight). But maybe this is exactly how the 'immersive' setting works?

I understand how the reputation and traits interplay now but it's not very intuitive with a system that will seemingly punish the player with bad traits after pulling off an amazing win against all odds simply for the purpose of balancing a % table. I'd rather it be based on flat numbers, say 50 is neutral and at 55 you get a positive trait, reaching 60 another positive. If you go back down to 55 you lose a positive one and you'll only start amassing negative ones when below 50.


Or maybe a new ship added to the fleet could get a starting rating dependent on its D mods: a pristine one could start at 100% rating since it's brand new and would only get negative traits after loosing that rating, but any dmod present would reduce the starting rating by 15% and early negative traits could be explained by the defective nature of the ship.

Crew loyalty could also be used to completely nullify the effect of negative traits making them more palatable (but wouldn't remove them) instead of improving good traits, while keeping the ppt boost.
Could be an idea but I prefer the other solution. D modded ships are meant to be somewhat of a mixed bag that are good for early game or smart usage to save supplies (like compromised storage on a salvage hull). But often the D mods are so terrible its hard to justify their use. If you make this change it would make the difference even bigger and further reduce the incentive to use ships with D mods which is the opposite of what the game needs.

D modded ships should if anything be randomized between maybe 20 and 80%. Who's to say that a ship didn't have a nearly shining reputation before getting destroyed?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Botaragno on August 25, 2019, 05:17:32 AM
It's hard to determine how much "experience" a ship needs to get a new rank, Combat Analysis can help but it does feel a lil hidden
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Alphascrub on August 25, 2019, 06:07:28 AM
@the discussion over dmods and traits. I would honestly say Dmoded ships should have the strongest traits. Take a car in real life you have fixed up but not completely replaced with factory new parts. Cars like that have a true personality to them. Certain things would still be broken others might be over engineered to fix problem. You learn these things as you operate the car, what gears it might stick in while shifting, how the blinkers might only work if you flick them in just the right way, how your heater might not work but your air conditioning is worse than a freezer. Ect. Sometimes you end up replacing a fuze or light bulb with something vastly better than the original because its all you had at the time. Basically I think of dmods are going to effect trait percentages they should increase them across the board, both positive and negative.

I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work to me,  a pain to balance to, but just my two cents.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Degernase on August 25, 2019, 06:39:03 AM
@the discussion over dmods and traits. I would honestly say Dmoded ships should have the strongest traits. Take a car in real life you have fixed up but not completely replaced with factory new parts. Cars like that have a true personality to them. Certain things would still be broken others might be over engineered to fix problem. You learn these things as you operate the car, what gears it might stick in while shifting, how the blinkers might only work if you flick them in just the right way, how your heater might not work but your air conditioning is worse than a freezer. Ect. Sometimes you end up replacing a fuze or light bulb with something vastly better than the original because its all you had at the time. Basically I think of dmods are going to effect trait percentages they should increase them across the board, both positive and negative.

I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work to me,  a pain to balance to, but just my two cents.

I like this suggestion, could maybe boost (both negative and positives as suggested) traits by 5-10% per D-mod. Would make D-mod ships a trade-off to consider even in the lategame where reduced supply cost is mostly negligible compared to stronger combat potential.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Orcling on August 25, 2019, 06:37:23 PM
I love the leveling system but it isn't entirely fair to support ships- and I don't mean civilian ships that arent even deployed, someone else mentioned those.
I mean dedicated escort ships for example, that ONLY shoot down missiles or bombers/fighters. Point Defenders, so to say. Or distraction Kites. They don't take any damage but they never do any hull damage either, so their Combat Reputation will always go down no matter how "well" they do. My Heron Carrier who is covered in Large PD Lasers and only has Interceptors has a Reputation of 30%(And it's still going down), even though he never took a single Hull damage in any of the battles he's in. All he does is sit in the backline and shoot down  :(

No idea how to fix this.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Killgarth on August 25, 2019, 07:15:35 PM
>ship lore customization mods
THATS THE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL *** BABY GIVE IT TO ME
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tackywheat1 on August 25, 2019, 11:07:01 PM
If only I had this mod when I started.... My Apogee and shrike (I have soloed pirate stations with the shrike) would probably be legendary with virtually no negative traits
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 26, 2019, 02:50:17 AM
Starship Legends 1.2.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

FIXED:
Default RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini settings will no longer cause civilian ships to receive nothing but bad traits
Battle reports will no longer display loyalty changes for ships that do not yet have a reputation

ADDED:
New setting "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" to easily change the likelihood for civilian ships to get good traits

CHANGES:
The default rating formula has been adjusted, reducing the effects of both taking and dealing hull damage by half
The rating of Noir ships (from the Artifact mod) is now less affected by hull damage due to their reliance on hull regeneration
Settings are now loaded using getMergedJSONForMod, making it possible to override them with other mods (including personal tweaks mods)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 27, 2019, 01:37:09 AM
Probable incoming change:
Another way to deal with it would be to garantee a positive or negative trait if if there is a large swing in combat rating, say more than 5%. That way a really good ship that is cruising to a high combat rating wouln't get stacked with mixed traits that would get replaced over time until it reaches it's nominal rating.
I really like this idea. It solves two problems at once, and while it complicates things a bit, it's intuitive. I think I'll end up doing this, or something similar. In fact, I think I might just make it so that ships that improve their rating at all can't get new negative traits from that battle, and vice versa.

@Tartiflette:
Spoiler
I think a lot of the complains comes from a lack of understanding of the inner working of the mod. Which is a problem given how difficult it is to explain it quickly.
Oh, for sure. I updated the original post a few days ago, so hopefully that will help.

Maybe if the reputation traits where given after a delay instead of after the battle it would disociate them from the direct battle performance.
True. It's ironic that this mod started out using delayed notifications and traits based only on the most recent battle, and now does the opposite. The biggest problem with the notifications was that it could end up creating some pretty serious spam. Battle reports were the solution to that. I'm having a hard time thinking of any sort of hybrid that would work well.

The intel text could also be written with a bit more flavor to point out that the reputation traits aren't necessarily grounded in cold hard facts, especially negative ones.
I've tried to do just that, but I'll try to figure out a way to do it better.

Or maybe a new ship added to the fleet could get a starting rating dependent on its D mods: a pristine one could start at 100% rating since it's brand new and would only get negative traits after loosing that rating, but any dmod present would reduce the starting rating by 15% and early negative traits could be explained by the defective nature of the ship.
I would personally prefer that all ships start on a level playing field, but perhaps I'm not seeing some benefit to gameplay that you are.

Crew loyalty could also be used to completely nullify the effect of negative traits making them more palatable (but wouldn't remove them) instead of improving good traits, while keeping the ppt boost.
I feel like high loyalty is already too powerful due to it's effect on traits, and I'm not too concerned about negative traits bothering some people, because they have the option to turn them off. A little power creep is a bit of an inevitability with a mod like this, but I want to keep it under control as much as possible, at least with default settings.
[close]

@Degernase:
Spoiler
Even if it's a 50/50 system and this was caused by a bug in the Ruthless Sector settings I don't think that's an entirely fair system. Would it not be possible to take the average reputation gain (or loss) of all deployed ships and apply it (or half of it) to those in reserve? The way I understand it you can't ever get them above 50/50 good/bad if you're unable to change their reputation. I hate the idea of a system giving out negative traits that I'm completely unable to affect in any way.
Yeah, that's understandable. Hopefully the new bonusChanceForCivilianShips setting will be able to alleviate some of your frustration. Personally, I like the RNG in this instance. Even at 50/50, starship legends is unlikely to make the civilian ships in your fleet weaker than they would be without it, because you can choose which ones you keep. It would certainly be possible to base civilian ship trait gain on average rating changes, but it would cause a lot of minor complications and confusion while inflating power creep. If I could snap my fingers and make it an optional setting I would, but I'm not convinced it's worth the work it would take.

From a game design point of view you also want to reward or punish players when doing something good or bad and in a way where they can associate the outcome directly with the action they performed (such as doing very well or very poorly in a fight).
Good point. That's what I should've told him!
[close]

It's hard to determine how much "experience" a ship needs to get a new rank, Combat Analysis can help but it does feel a lil hidden
True. In fact, earning new traits is based on RNG. Earning more XP in a battle makes it more likely to get a new trait, but XP does not accumulate for the purpose of earning new traits.

@the discussion over dmods and traits. I would honestly say Dmoded ships should have the strongest traits. Take a car in real life you have fixed up but not completely replaced with factory new parts. Cars like that have a true personality to them. Certain things would still be broken others might be over engineered to fix problem. You learn these things as you operate the car, what gears it might stick in while shifting, how the blinkers might only work if you flick them in just the right way, how your heater might not work but your air conditioning is worse than a freezer. Ect. Sometimes you end up replacing a fuze or light bulb with something vastly better than the original because its all you had at the time. Basically I think of dmods are going to effect trait percentages they should increase them across the board, both positive and negative.

I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work to me,  a pain to balance to, but just my two cents.
All true, and I think this could be a pretty neat mechanic if done correctly, but yeah, the work involved to get it working well would be pretty daunting. Maybe there could be a few traits similar to battle scarred and scrap heap that would be affected by d-mods instead of affecting them. Not sure what stat it would modify though. Hmm...

>ship lore customization mods
THATS THE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL *** BABY GIVE IT TO ME
;D

@Orcling:
Spoiler
I love the leveling system but it isn't entirely fair to support ships
Yeah, this is a longstanding issue that I haven't found a good solution to yet. I might be able to boost dedicated PD ships, but how could I possibly quantify the value of something like distraction kites? The only real solutions I've come up with involve removing damage dealt from the equation and making all ships that participate in a battle have the same battle score.

My Heron Carrier who is covered in Large PD Lasers and only has Interceptors has a Reputation of 30%(And it's still going down), even though he never took a single Hull damage in any of the battles he's in.
With default settings it shouldn't be possible for a ship that has never taken hull damage to have a rating lower than 50%. Did you edit the options? If not, this could be a new bug.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: boogiebob on August 27, 2019, 08:01:47 AM
My two cent after trying this for a few days- noticeably every ship is worse-off than better, this is with all-too frequent repairs on my parts via the console to try and get a single worthy trait.
Worse yet, overdriven phase ships just get railed- 3 famous or whatever level harbingers had 5 negative a 1 positive. The idea that the rating be based on CR over time in battle is ridiculous, because you have no direct control over it other than the loadout you choose.

The mod concept is nice, but needs way more fleshing out to be useful rather than deleterious.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 27, 2019, 10:02:58 AM
My two cent after trying this for a few days- noticeably every ship is worse-off than better, this is all-too frequent repairs on my parts via the console to try and get a single worthy trait.
Unfortunately, the rating system will be too hard for some people and too easy for others no matter how it works. To change it, you might want to edit STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini found in the mod's folder. If you like, you can disable negative traits entirely.

The idea that the rating be based on CR over time in battle is ridiculous, because you have no direct control over it other than the loadout you choose.
I agree. That's why rating is not (and has never been) based on CR loss.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: CitizenJoe on August 27, 2019, 07:26:46 PM
Hey, just wanted to add that the mod's default ruthless sector config isnt really working great. Its pretty much guaranteed that any ship participating in a low-difficulty battle will lose combat rating if it takes even a single glancing hit to armor and will seemingly never gain any rating for winning even on a flawless victory. Captain confidence also seems to steadily decrease if you regularly engage fleets significantly weaker than yours. Dis-incentivizing engaging in combat seems a little odd.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 27, 2019, 07:49:55 PM
Yeah, I think I might've made the default settings with ruthless sector a little too ruthless. Generally, I think I'll start making the rating system more forgiving than I personally want it to be. People don't seem to mind when it's too easy, but I get all kinds of complaints about it being too hard.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: CitizenJoe on August 27, 2019, 09:05:38 PM
Actually, now that I'm testing it, something is up since the latest update. I replaced the ruthless settings with vanilla settings and combat ratings are still tanking in general even with flawless battles against similarly sized fleets. Even after changing to vanilla settings, One of my fast carriers, over the course of 5 fairly large battles, has killed roughly 6 frigates, tanked zero damage, but has gone from 51% and confident to 40% and insubordinate
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: crowman on August 28, 2019, 06:47:47 AM
While the progression is nice, it would be even nicer if you could lock-in traits permanently. I'd gladly pay the entire cost of a pristine ship per locked trait and I think that would open up avenues for mothballing and rerolling ships from scratch, locking desirable traits, rinse and repeat until once achieves heaven perfection.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 28, 2019, 08:59:03 AM
Actually, now that I'm testing it, something is up since the latest update. I replaced the ruthless settings with vanilla settings and combat ratings are still tanking in general even with flawless battles against similarly sized fleets. Even after changing to vanilla settings, One of my fast carriers, over the course of 5 fairly large battles, has killed roughly 6 frigates, tanked zero damage, but has gone from 51% and confident to 40% and insubordinate
I just fought a few battles to test this, but I got the results I would expect each time. Would you mind showing me your options file? It shouldn't be possible to get a rating below 50% without taking damage if you have baseRating set to the default of 0.5

While the progression is nice, it would be even nicer if you could lock-in traits permanently.
I think a Darkest Dungeon style trait/quirk locking system could work well, but unfortunately that would require an interface for choosing which traits to lock, and there's no good way to make an interface like that as far as I know.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Rutaki on August 30, 2019, 09:01:36 AM
Hello again, I have a suggestion on how to implement the reputation to enemy fleets, I don't know the difficulty or if it is even possible to implement but here it goes (at least serve as some inspiration).

The chance of each reputation rank scales according to the Admiral level (those with star icon on the side of the ship) and officer that the ship has, and according to Admiral and all the officers the fleet has when the ship doesn't have both.

Chances in general without considering lv:

Enemy Admiral: Significant chance of being Well-know and Famous, a low of being Notable and Legendary

Enemy Official: Significant chance of being Notable and Well-know, not so high of being Famous and unrated, super low of being Legendary (Chances of reaching X rank is reduced if admiral is lower)

Enemy Ships without Admiral/Official: Significant chance of not being ranked or notable, low to be well know, super low to be famous and almost impossible to be legendary (Chances of reaching X rank is reduced if admiral is lower)

[Redacted] Enemy Ships: consider all of the above, but have no chance of having a Malus trait, to make the least sense, the rank names and description are different for them, something like Delta/Gamma/Beta/Alpha rank and a description of how "adaptable" each one is perhaps?

Enemy Ships Without D-mods: Good chance to have a Bonus Trait

Enemy ships with D-mods: For each D-mod increase the chance of having an Malus Trait until reaching the X%/X% limit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 30, 2019, 04:14:57 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I do have a plan for giving non-player ships traits, and it even incorporates some of your ideas. I'll be sure to keep your suggestions in mind when I finally get around to implementing it!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Rutaki on August 30, 2019, 05:21:14 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I do have a plan for giving non-player ships traits, and it even incorporates some of your ideas. I'll be sure to keep your suggestions in mind when I finally get around to implementing it!

yay!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JDCollie on September 01, 2019, 11:35:06 AM
Out of curiosity, does Legends care about total hull damage in making the battle performance calculations, or final hull damage?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: EvilPineapple on September 01, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Is there a way to prevent the guaranteed rating loss when fighting single ships? If I'm chasing the one frigate that retreated I lose rating even if I take 0 damage. I know autoresolve doesn't affect rating but then I have to deploy multiple ships to get the same success rate.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JDCollie on September 02, 2019, 06:05:10 AM
Is there a way to prevent the guaranteed rating loss when fighting single ships? If I'm chasing the one frigate that retreated I lose rating even if I take 0 damage. I know autoresolve doesn't affect rating but then I have to deploy multiple ships to get the same success rate.
Have the ship you send be half the deployment cost of the single ship you are fighting. Even if you take damage you'll still have a good rating.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 02, 2019, 01:58:12 PM
Out of curiosity, does Legends care about total hull damage in making the battle performance calculations, or final hull damage?
It's total percent of damage taken during the battle. So if a ship starts a battle at 80% and ends at 50%, it only sustained 30% hull damage.


Is there a way to prevent the guaranteed rating loss when fighting single ships? If I'm chasing the one frigate that retreated I lose rating even if I take 0 damage. I know autoresolve doesn't affect rating but then I have to deploy multiple ships to get the same success rate.
Have the ship you send be half the deployment cost of the single ship you are fighting. Even if you take damage you'll still have a good rating.
Yup. Also, the higher your rating is, the harder it becomes to raise it further. If a ship starts with a rating of 40% and scores a rating of 90% in a battle, its rating will improve by 4%, but if a ship with a rating of 100% scores 90% in a battle, it will go down by 1%. I think the main problem with pursuit battles is that ships don't earn rating for dealing damage to civilian ships. I think I'll change that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: EvilPineapple on September 02, 2019, 10:34:36 PM
My problem was that my smallest ship vs a single fleeing frigate will very often lose rating, forcing me to chose between higher supply costs of an multiship autoresolve or losing rating by personally flying one ship. There doesn't seem to be a good way to fix this other than just bringing more ships that are weaker which unfortunately means more cost anyway.

Civ ships giving rating seems like a good idea tho. Reward that Kite for killing a Prometheus!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 03, 2019, 07:36:12 AM
My problem was that my smallest ship vs a single fleeing frigate will very often lose rating, forcing me to chose between higher supply costs of an multiship autoresolve or losing rating by personally flying one ship. There doesn't seem to be a good way to fix this other than just bringing more ships that are weaker which unfortunately means more cost anyway.
Right. I understand your concern and agree that it's a problem, but I see how I might not have given that impression.

Civ ships giving rating seems like a good idea tho. Reward that Kite for killing a Prometheus!
Yea, it should work without any issues. My original thinking was based on difficulty calculation for ruthless sector, but in this case I think it makes perfect sense to improve rating for destroying civilian ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: crowman on September 03, 2019, 11:50:56 AM
The easiest fix, imo, would be to allow us to lock our ship's rating, permanently, with no way of reversing such decision. No more increases and no more decreases, kind of like receiving a Medal of Honor or timely retiring dead weights.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 03, 2019, 12:46:32 PM
I think a feature like that would be a good addition. I'm not sure how best to offer that choice in an immersive, non-clunky way though. I'll have to think about it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tartiflette on September 03, 2019, 02:36:45 PM
Other solutions:
- pursuits have capped rating swings
- pursuits can only increase rating, ignored otherwise
- pursuits are ignored if autoresolve is used
- pursuits are simply ignored entirely
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Jester on September 04, 2019, 07:11:51 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.

That being said, I would like to ask if there are these settings I can turn off or alter.
1). What setting do I change to disable ALL REPUTATION CHANGES(+ or -) to ships who weren't deployed in combat?
2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5? Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
3). Is there a way to increase the speed of losing reputation? Mothballing 30 days for each reputation is a bit long.

Please let me know. Thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: krisslanza on September 04, 2019, 07:29:10 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.

That being said, I would like to ask if there are these settings I can turn off or alter.
1). What setting do I change to disable ALL REPUTATION CHANGES(+ or -) to ships who weren't deployed in combat?
2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5? Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
3). Is there a way to increase the speed of losing reputation? Mothballing 30 days for each reputation is a bit long.

Please let me know. Thanks again!

I'm trying to figure out #2 myself (beyond just turning off bad traits), but for #3 I got you covered! In the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS look for this:
"daysMothballedPerTraitToResetReputation":30, # A ship must remain mothballed (in or out of storage) for a consecutive number of days to lose it's reputation

;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Jester on September 04, 2019, 07:48:08 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.

That being said, I would like to ask if there are these settings I can turn off or alter.
1). What setting do I change to disable ALL REPUTATION CHANGES(+ or -) to ships who weren't deployed in combat?
2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5? Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
3). Is there a way to increase the speed of losing reputation? Mothballing 30 days for each reputation is a bit long.

Please let me know. Thanks again!

I'm trying to figure out #2 myself (beyond just turning off bad traits), but for #3 I got you covered! In the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS look for this:
"daysMothballedPerTraitToResetReputation":30, # A ship must remain mothballed (in or out of storage) for a consecutive number of days to lose it's reputation

;)

Ah thank you very much. I have changed it to 14 days instead.

Update: I have also changed traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips to 0. I hope this means reserved ships of all kinds will no longer get any reputation changes.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 04, 2019, 09:22:50 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.
;D

2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5?
I'm trying to figure out #2 myself (beyond just turning off bad traits)
Yeah, you're on the right track.
Higher damageDealtMult will increase rating more when your ships deal hull damage
Higher damageTakenMult will reduce rating more when they take damage
Higher baseRating will increase ratings no matter what
There's a detailed description of how the rating system works in the FAQs section on the first page of this thread.

Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
Yeah, it's pretty brutal at the moment. I'll be making it a little easier soon.

I have also changed traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips to 0. I hope this means reserved ships of all kinds will no longer get any reputation changes.
Yup! By default civilian ships are the only ones that can get traits without being deployed.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Jester on September 05, 2019, 08:04:02 AM
Ok I doubled the damageDealtMult and halved the damageTakenMult to they're both .25 now. Will report back how they feel after I test a new campaign.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nerzhull_AI on September 08, 2019, 07:27:51 PM
Some of my ships are getting new traits despite them not being in any fight whatsoever. Interestingly, that's true only for my Prometheus and Atlas ships (basically giant fuel/supply ships). If it's intended, then so be it, just wanted to clarify it.
Overall mod is fantastic, and i'm grateful for your work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 08, 2019, 08:42:11 PM
Some of my ships are getting new traits despite them not being in any fight whatsoever. Interestingly, that's true only for my Prometheus and Atlas ships (basically giant fuel/supply ships). If it's intended, then so be it, just wanted to clarify it.
It's intended and can also be disabled (traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips). By default, only civilian ships will get traits if they're not deployed.

Overall mod is fantastic, and i'm grateful for your work.
Thanks!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 09, 2019, 11:17:39 AM
Starship Legends 1.2.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

This update makes the rating system more fair and fixes a few issues.

Added a new contributing factor to rating calculation that is meant to benifit support ships
   Ratings are now increased based on hull damage dealt by all allied ships during any engagement in which the ship was deployed
   "supportMult" setting added to the options file
Added a console command for uninstalling Starship Legends (uninstallStarshipLegends). See FAQs for how to use it properly
Added more flavor text for AI reputation hullmods (thanks to Avanitia for all the help with this!)
Fixed a mostly harmless error that could occur during battle when a trait triggered a malfunction for disabled ships
Fixed trait effects not propegating to the sub-sections of multi-section ships
Fixed: Reputation hullmods are now removed from autofit goal variants prior to game saves
Changed: Ships will no longer recieve any type of negative reputation adjustment after a battle in which their rating improved, and vice versa
Changed: Dealing hull damage to civilian ships now improves rating, making rating improvement via pursuit more viable

Edit: also, the default value for useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty has been changed from true to false
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 09, 2019, 11:37:40 AM
i noticed one of the changes in this update is
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":true
to
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":false

how much this changes the battle difficulty when Ruthless Sector is active alongside ?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Mitroll on September 09, 2019, 11:38:18 AM
Changed: Ships will no longer recieve any type of negative reputation adjustment after a battle in which their rating improved, and vice versa

Love this mod, but I feel like this change is going to result in getting 50/50 good/bad mods once you get to the point where you're struggling to get the rep adjustment to go any higher. (Unless you get it to 100%)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 09, 2019, 12:11:05 PM
i noticed one of the changes in this update is
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":true
to
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":false
Oh, I forgot to add that to the patch notes. Good catch!

how much this changes the battle difficulty when Ruthless Sector is active alongside ?
That mostly depends on your character level, the officers involved on both sides, and your ruthless sector configuration. The biggest difference when useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty is true, is that your ships will earn less rating from damage when they have high level captains (which is one of the reasons I turned it off). It also means enemy ships with high level captains wont award as much rating when you damage them. The biggest problem was that it was effectively doubling the strength calculation adjustments, because it was causing them to be factored into both battle difficulty and damage dealt.

Changed: Ships will no longer recieve any type of negative reputation adjustment after a battle in which their rating improved, and vice versa

Love this mod, but I feel like this change is going to result in getting 50/50 good/bad mods once you get to the point where you're struggling to get the rep adjustment to go any higher. (Unless you get it to 100%)
It shouldn't. In fact, the biggest practical difference should be when rating is steadily changing, because only adjustments that match the rating changes will be allowed. When a ship's rating becomes stable, it should work out the same way as before. Traits are still chosen and adjusted the same way. This rule will just veto reputation changes that don't make much sense based on the rating change from battles.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 09, 2019, 05:42:17 PM
is it possible to add more / custom reputation tiers ? (would be nice if doable via .ini)



Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 09, 2019, 06:27:14 PM
Unfortunately there's no practical way to do that. However, you can increase the number of traits you get for each tier by editing the ini file (traitsPerTier).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: yorik on September 11, 2019, 12:11:44 AM
First, I would like to thank you for your great mod. But, I have a little „problem“ - it gave a bad trait to a ship kept in reserves. Is that intended behavior? It seems a little bit odd to me. There is nothing the crew could do bad - they were just watching the battle from a distance. :-D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 11, 2019, 12:19:08 AM
Yup. That's intended. By default civilian ships have a 50% chance for new traits to be negative. It's pure RNG. If you want civilian ships to only earn good traits you can change bonusChanceForCivilianShips to 1 in the options file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: yorik on September 11, 2019, 04:29:01 AM
Ok, thank you for the answer. The problem was not a bad trait for a civilian ship but a bad trait (or any trait) for a ship that didn’t participate in a battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Histidine on September 11, 2019, 04:49:54 AM
Added a new contributing factor to rating calculation that is meant to benifit support ships
   Ratings are now increased based on hull damage dealt by all allied ships during any engagement in which the ship was deployed
Nice, hopefully this also fixes the problem where a high-performing ship could cause other ships to bleed rating by stealing all their kills.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 11, 2019, 08:15:09 AM
Ok, thank you for the answer. The problem was not a bad trait for a civilian ship but a bad trait (or any trait) for a ship that didn’t participate in a battle.
Yeah, I hear ya. In the future civilian ships will earn traits only for XP earned outside of battle, but for now battles are the only way for them to get traits.

Added a new contributing factor to rating calculation that is meant to benifit support ships
   Ratings are now increased based on hull damage dealt by all allied ships during any engagement in which the ship was deployed
Nice, hopefully this also fixes the problem where a high-performing ship could cause other ships to bleed rating by stealing all their kills.
It should help, but the problem still exists. I've thought about maybe making excess rating gains for one ship spill over to all the others somehow, but that might get hairy in terms of implementation, not to mention complicating an already-too-complex mechanic.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Szass Tam on September 17, 2019, 03:07:29 AM
Can i savely change ini setting mid game?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Erythion on September 17, 2019, 03:12:42 AM
Can you update the formula on the FAQ to contain supportMult?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 17, 2019, 09:36:59 AM
Can i savely change ini setting mid game?
You can change ini settings without starting a new game, but you do need to restart the game for the changes to take effect.

Can you update the formula on the FAQ to contain supportMult?
Done! Thanks for the reminder  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 17, 2019, 01:36:14 PM
sundog, to expand on that configurable / custom ranks

would need 2 arrays:
strings one to define names of custom ranks
integer to define the values

then into ini files go
e.g.
Code
customreptiers : {"customreptier1name","customreptier2name",};

Code
"customreptier1name": {xpToGuaranteeNewTrait:1, effectMulti:1.01};
"customreptier2name": {xpToGuaranteeNewTrait:1000, effectMulti:1.02};

in your code you can read that seamlessly like any other settings
and integrate it alongside your existing ranks

ofcourse you may expose even more values for granularity of options for each custom rank
i do hope i make some of sense with this ...

for example i would like to add some reputation tier from very low xp of the ship (e.g. from 1)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Buff Skeleton on September 18, 2019, 08:51:41 AM
This is such a wonderful mod. Thanks for the work put into it!

I'm really enjoying seeing how unique my ships become, and sometimes firing officers if nobody likes them, even if their stats are good. Really cool stuff.

If there's only one nitpick, it's very minor, and it's that stuff like tankers and freighters can become legendary even without ever spending a second in battle. It makes sense from a lore perspective I suppose, (people DO work on those ships, and people talk) but it might be nice if you could cap the maximum notoriety to Well-Known or something for non-combat ships, since the ones which actually fight are probably gonna get talked up the most at the bar.

Otherwise, fantastic mod. No complaints.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 18, 2019, 01:28:04 PM
sundog, to expand on that configurable / custom ranks
I can tell you put a lot of thought into this, and I appreciate the effort, but I'm well aware of what would need to be done in order to make the number of reputation tiers configurable. Unfortunately it would take far more work than I think it's worth. You're welcome to edit the mod yourself if you really want to. Everything you would need is freely available.

This is such a wonderful mod. Thanks for the work put into it!
Thanks! It's been a fun project so far :)

If there's only one nitpick, it's very minor, and it's that stuff like tankers and freighters can become legendary even without ever spending a second in battle.
It should be quite a bit more difficult for civilian ships to become famous/legendary due the XP they get per battle being capped, but I haven't done enough late-game play-testing since I added that cap to know how well it works. In the dev version civilian ships only earn traits from non-combat XP (unless they're deployed of course), so that should help keep them in check. Not sure I'll keep it that way. I might just drastically reduce civilian trait chance after battle.

Anyway, regarding reputation limits for civilian ships, I'd prefer for it to remain possible, but unlikely, for them to become legendary. If there's sufficient demand for a limit then I might add an option for it, but first I want to see how things play out once they no longer get traits after battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Buff Skeleton on September 18, 2019, 02:25:33 PM
Yeah good point about capping -- after all, who's to say there isn't some lunatic out there flying a Prometheus as his flagship? That would definitely be deserving of legendary status, even if it didn't survive a single fight :P

I really like when I see logistics upgrades (or even downgrades, since those matter) on my logistics-oriented ships, though seeing a bunch of combat tweaks just kinda makes me chuckle. Ah yes, 5% stronger weapon mounts on an Atlas! Now I can finally take on those remnant battleships. I wonder how the crew even figures this stuff out if they never see battle, unless they spend all their bored hours simulating fights with the other freighters, tankers, salvage ships, and tugs in the fleet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nerzhull_AI on September 18, 2019, 02:46:25 PM
Added more flavor text for AI reputation hullmods (thanks to Avanitia for all the help with this!)
Awesome. This mod makes everything better.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/nYE1qQO.png)
[close]
This is my life now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 18, 2019, 02:52:55 PM
@Nerzhull_AI:
Yeah, I was lazy with the AI reputation descriptions at first...
That's quite the ship! I promise not to tell any Luddites  ;)

@Buff Skeleton:
lol yeah, combat traits on civilian ships are basically just there to be duds and potential personality quirks. Maybe that buffalo crew really is uppity enough to think their freighter is deadly  ::)

I'd like to add enough logistical traits to make it more uncommon for civilian ships to get combat traits, but there aren't many possibilities that work well with both the trait system and fleet logistics.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 18, 2019, 08:00:45 PM
hello sundog,

what i tried attempt was really simple addition to - settings files:

Spoiler

\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
Code
	
# SHIP REPUTATION TIERS # custom
 "nobody":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":00001, "effectMult":0.01, },
 "unskilled":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":00010, "effectMult":0.50, },
 "greenhorn":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":00100, "effectMult":1.00, },
 "rookie":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":01000, "effectMult":1.10, },
 "versed":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":10000, "effectMult":1.20, },
 "skilled":{    "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":20000, "effectMult":1.50, },
 "recognized":{ "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":40000, "effectMult":1.75, },
 "veteran":{    "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":60000, "effectMult":2.00, },
# SHIP REPUTATION TIERS # original
 "notable":{    "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":80000, "effectMult":3, },
 "wellknown":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":400000, "effectMult":4, },
 "famous":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":2000000, "effectMult":5, },
 "legendary":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":10000000, "effectMult":6, },
   
and that accompanied with adding the related hullmod tiers entries
there are two with tier equal 0 for test too
(note the notable_test.png is just for test to see if it gets active)

\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\data\hullmods\hull_mods.csv
Code
name,id,tier,rarity,tech/manufacturer,tags,uiTags,base value,unlocked,hidden,hiddenEverywhere,cost_frigate,cost_dest,cost_cruiser,cost_capital,script,desc,short,sprite
Nobody,sun_sl_nobody,0,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain NOBODY characteristics.,Reputation of ship is NOBODY with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Unskilled,sun_sl_unskilled,0,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain UNSKILLED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is UNSKILLED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Greenhorn,sun_sl_greenhorn,1,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain GREENHORN characteristics.,Reputation of ship is GREENHORN with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Rookie,sun_sl_rookie,2,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain ROOKIE characteristics.,Reputation of ship is ROOKIE with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Versed,sun_sl_versed,3,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain VERSED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is VERSED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Skilled,sun_sl_skilled,4,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain SKILLED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is SKILLED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Recognized,sun_sl_recognized,5,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain RECOGNIZED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is RECOGNIZED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Veteran,sun_sl_veteran,5,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain VETERAN characteristics.,Reputation of ship is VETERAN with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Notable,sun_sl_notable,6,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has distinguished itself as having certain notable characteristics.,This ship has a reputation for having certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable.png
Well-Known,sun_sl_wellknown,7,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s is a well-known ship within your fleet.,This ship is well-known within your fleet.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/wellknown.png
Famous,sun_sl_famous,8,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has achieved fame within military circles.,This ship is famous. People in military cirles have often heard of it.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/famous.png
Legendary,sun_sl_legendary,9,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s is a legend throughout the sector.,This ship is legendary. People across the entire sector tell stories about it.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/legendary.png
and some bad loyalty tiers
(for some reason adding those caused Error 8 in the UI of StarSector recommending to contact mod author)

\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\sun_sl\data\loyalty_levels.csv
Code
id,name,cr_decay,trait_adjustment,base_improve_chance,base_worsen_chance,rating_required_to_improve,preposition,trait_adjust_desc
mutiny,Mutiny,60,-5,3.0,0.00,0.00,to,losing control
rebellious,Rebellious,50,-4,2.0,0.01,0.01,to,extremely worsening
disobedient,Disobedient,40,-3,1.8,0.02,0.03,to,rapidly worsening
openly_insubordinate,Openly Insubordinate,30,-2,1.6,0.03,0.05,to,significantly worsening
insubordinate,Insubordinate,20,-1,0.8,0.05,0.1,to,worsening
doubtful,Doubtful,10,0,0.4,0.1,0.3,of,
indifferent,Indifferent,0,0,0.2,0.2,0.5,to,
confident,Confident,-10,0,0.1,0.4,0.7,in,
loyal,Loyal,-20,1,0.05,0.8,0.9,to,improving
fiercely loyal,Fiercely Loyal,-30,2,0,1.6,2,to,significantly improving
yet
[close]
unfortunately i'm sure that will fail to work
as 7 of your class files has references to `notable` or `sun_sl_notable` etc.

i really don't want to rewrite the mod, just expand part with new entries, namely those:

reputation tiers - with new names, levels and linked experience, multipliers (feels hardcoded on too many class files)
loyalty tiers- again with new names, levels (seems that's hardcoded in LoyaltyLevel.class files too)
traits types - new trait names with various effects, description (seems that's hardcoded in reputation.class)

as you can can see,
what i aimed for was to create low experience tiers,
then to link them with even lower loyalty tiers
and planned to add various of additional traits

but because it's all hardcoded then i guess that's vain effort ;(

hence why i asked and plea that if and when you get time and mood
you shall add way define and load custom entries

to ensure your official files aren't overwritten/modded by e.g.

custom_hull_mods.csv
custom_loyalty_levels.csv
custom_traits.csv

and then being able to alter values for custom tiers within settings file(s)

of course , no matter what, you mod is really nice and i hope that's obvious

p.s.
so the error i mentioned above is caused by adding multiple tiers into loyalty_levels.csv
only one entry (line) with new loyalty tier works , two or more will throw error
each is correct and works w/o the other being added :(
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: captinjoehenry on September 21, 2019, 09:55:14 PM
Where do I go to save edit the traits that my ship has?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Takion Kasukedo on September 22, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Starship Legends keeps getting some error(s) someways into the playthrough. It got one when I save-copied, which I don't know what the error from that is.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 23, 2019, 08:47:59 AM
Where do I go to save edit the traits that my ship has?
I would recommend using console commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) for that. Sounds like you'll want to do something like this:
Quote
ClearRep
AddTrait deadly
AddTrait durable
...
You can use "list traits good" to see the names of all the positive traits.

Starship Legends keeps getting some error(s) someways into the playthrough. It got one when I save-copied, which I don't know what the error from that is.
Hey, thanks for reporting this. Can you tell me anything else about this error? Does it show up at the end of starsector.log? When else does it occur? Does it show a red error notification on the left side of the screen, or does the game crash?

Since you got an error when you saved, it's likely that starship legends just failed to remove reputation hullmods from your goal variants for some reason (it tries to do this before each save). If that's the case then it's nothing to worry about, but it's still something I'd really like to fix.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on September 27, 2019, 07:08:32 AM
I have an odd situation, where one of my ships just does not want to get more traits. The ship got the +CR time trait, and officer loyalty levels up, but that's it. All other ships on the fleet are famous/legendary by now. I tried selling it and buying an identical new one, but same thing happened: CR trait and nothing else.

I would use console to add traits, but I am genuinely confused why it's happening.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 27, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
Yeah, I'm confused too. That is a very strange bug. What's the ship? What mod is it from?

The ship got the +CR time trait
I'm not sure which trait you're referring to
Professional Crew - +CR limit
Industrious Crew - +CR recovery speed
Determined Crew - +peak performance time

My best guess as to what's happening is that something about the ship is causing an error in starship legends when it tries to choose a new trait for it, but only when it already has one trait. If that's the case, then an error will show up in the log when it happens.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on September 28, 2019, 02:56:14 AM
The trait was Determined Crew
The ship is SRA's Vardr battleship.

I looked at the log but do not seem to see any errors from Starship Legends.

Here's the log, where I loaded, teleported to an enemy fleet and saved right after the battle where the Vardr got a 250% contribution.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 29, 2019, 02:24:51 PM
Ok, so I couldn't reproduce any issues with the Varnr specifically, but I think I might know why it's not getting any new traits. The most recent version added a rule that prevents ships from getting negative traits after a battle in which their rating improved. The problem is that if a ship only  has one good trait, then in order for it to get a second trait it needs to either lose rating (to get a bad one) or have a rating of 100% (to get another good one), and I'm guessing your Varnr's rating has steadily improved without ever reaching 100%. Is that the case? Regardless, I consider this a serious issue, and I'll be adjusting that rule to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Sorry for the late reply. I was just about to post this yesterday morning when a branch fell from my neighbor's tree and knocked out my power and internet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on September 30, 2019, 01:15:25 AM
Ok, so I couldn't reproduce any issues with the Varnr specifically, but I think I might know why it's not getting any new traits. The most recent version added a rule that prevents ships from getting negative traits after a battle in which their rating improved. The problem is that if a ship only  has one good trait, then in order for it to get a second trait it needs to either lose rating (to get a bad one) or have a rating of 100% (to get another good one), and I'm guessing your Varnr's rating has steadily improved without ever reaching 100%. Is that the case? Regardless, I consider this a serious issue, and I'll be adjusting that rule to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Sorry for the late reply. I was just about to post this yesterday morning when a branch fell from my neighbor's tree and knocked out my power and internet.
That does appear to be a likely explanation. The ship being a late-game capital, I think its rating was improving steadily  but not yet at 100%.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 30, 2019, 08:02:16 AM
Ok, cool. I'm glad there's (probably) not another issue at play here.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2019, 07:55:45 PM
There's a known issue in the current version that can lead to an error message when the game is saved and certain unusual conditions exist. It looks like this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/G9HlMRc.png)
[close]
This error is entirely harmless, so I'm going to put off releasing a new version until I can finish up some other things, but I wanted to let people know about it so it doesn't cause too much alarm.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 10, 2019, 11:19:03 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

New Features:
   Enemy fleets now have traits of their own, based on the fleet's faction and level of its commander
   Added a bar event that provides information about famous ships that you can acquire through post-battle salvage or derelict recovery
   Civilian ships now earn traits based on experience earned outside of combat, but no longer gain traits after battle (by default)

Combat Rating Calculation Improvements:
   When a ship earns a rating higher than 100% after a battle, the excess rating is now shared equally between all deployed ships
   Generally improved how the combat rating system decides whether a new trait should be good or bad
   Fixed an issue that could sometimes result in ships not earning new traits when they should
   
Added a slew of new settings to adjust how the new features work
Added two new trait types that adjust the effectiveness of missiles
Added a new icon for battle reports
Added a setting for disabling (and potentially uninstalling) starship legends: "removeAllDataAndFeatures"
Removed "UninstallStarshipLegends" console command in favor of the above setting
Fixed a harmless error message that would pop up on save when no variants were defined for a ship type
Fixed reputation hullmod listing loyalty levels for officers that are no longer in the fleet
Changed default days required per trait to reset a ship's reputation from 30 to 10
Changed: Traits now have more of an effect, especially at lower tiers
Changed: increased default baseRating from 0.5 to 0.75 to compensate for enemy fleets having mostly good traits
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 11, 2019, 05:00:27 AM

New Features:
   Civilian ships now earn traits based on experience earned outside of combat, but no longer gain traits after battle (by default)


The traits gained from this is completely random and ignores the " "ignoreAllMaluses":true,"  setting.

I turned the peacefulxp reputation gain off and I'm now getting an error in the background (red text telling me to contact modder) for Starship Legends everytime I run into a hostile remnant fleet to start combat. This does not happen when I try to engage pirates and it does not crash the game or anything so far.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: koalabog on October 11, 2019, 07:19:09 AM
The newest version seems to have a bugged interaction with Nexerelin. If a planets station is already destroyed and you "consider your military options" it causes an error and prevents the invade option from showing up.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: TheLochNessCheeseBurger on October 11, 2019, 10:55:25 AM
I bought a couple of Hegemony auxiliary Buffalos and have been flying around doing some exploration missions for just under a year. One of them is now famous and the other is well-known.
Is this kind of pace intended? Because I don't feel like I've been doing that much. My character went from level 7 to level 11 during that time which I don't feel is a big jump. All of my civilian ships have some sort of extra traits, meanwhile my flagship hasn't gained any (though, I've only fought some derelict defenses with it so far).

Is gaining traits based on experience or is it also based on the money/reputation you earn? If it's both then I can kind of understand since the exploration missions have been paying pretty well and gaining my character some good reputation with various factions.

Example of civilian ships gaining traits despite very low exp gain
(https://i.imgur.com/bPumdut.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bfF0ptq.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: SCC on October 11, 2019, 11:20:04 AM
I assume that they didn't gain traits from those exact experience gain, but rather that is when they crossed trait thresholds (i.e. 19900 -> 20100) purely on accident. Those gains might not have been big, but they added together.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 01:10:28 PM
Thanks for the reports guys! I should be able to get a fixed version out soon!

I bought a couple of Hegemony auxiliary Buffalos and have been flying around doing some exploration missions for just under a year. One of them is now famous and the other is well-known.
Is this kind of pace intended?
Nope! It sounds like I set peaceful xp gain too high and didn't do enough playtesting to realize it. I'll reduce it significantly for the next version, but in the meantime you can change "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips" in the options file
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 01:53:53 PM
I turned the peacefulxp reputation gain off and I'm now getting an error in the background (red text telling me to contact modder) for Starship Legends everytime I run into a hostile remnant fleet to start combat.
I'm having a hard time reproducing this one. Could you send me the last hundred or so lines of the log file (starsector-core/starsector.log) after this error happens?

Edit: Hmm... so it looks like an error will occur at that point if the options file could not be read. Are you certain you didn't make any formatting mistakes when editing the peaceful xp gain rate? If that's the case, you should be getting an error when your save loads as well.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 03:12:31 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that would occur when "Consider your military options" was chosen for a market that has no defenses
Fixed a mod conflict that would prevent Nexerelin from showing the option to launch invasions on markets
Fixed ships getting negative traits via peaceful xp when the "ignoreAllMaluses" option is set to true
Fixed the likelihood of civilian ships to earn traits from peaceful xp being far too high (reduced by 80%)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 11, 2019, 06:36:23 PM
Hi, loving the mod, and like the new update. Only 1 issue thats bugging me. The notifications on the left of the screen about civilian bonus's is really anoying, is there a way to turn that feature off?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Remus on October 11, 2019, 08:29:34 PM
First time posting here! Love this mod; can't play without it.

Something seems wrong with the new missile traits though. Specifically, "Fast Missile Loaders" and "Slow Missile Loaders". The tooltip indicates that these traits affect missile reload rate, which I originally assumed meant the speed at which extra ammo is regenerated for autoloader missiles like the Javelin LRM. However, they seem to leave this stat unchanged, and instead affect refire delay. Not only that, but the effect it has on refire delay is way too powerful, and is obviously not intended.

I used the console to do a little testing, and a ship at only Notable and with loyalty at Indifferent with the single trait "Fast Missile Loaders" can now effectively unload its entire magazine in one uninterrupted salvo, seemingly regardless of how long the listed default refire delay is for a particular weapon, and this seems to work for any missile-slot weapon. It's basically the nocooldown cheat but for missiles only. Similarly, for the negative trait with these same conditions, missiles now don't fire at all! I only discovered this because my missile cruiser obliterated half the enemy fleet in a matter of seconds in its first battle after gaining the trait. ;D Would like to know if it's just me or if anyone else is having this happen.  :)

EDIT: Didn't notice the update to 1.3.1, so just to be sure I want to also say that I'm still using 1.3.0 at the moment.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 09:18:07 PM
@exelsiar: Glad you like it! I'll add that setting soon!

@Remus: Thanks, and welcome to the forum! Someone else just told me about a similar issue and I just fixed it. I should be able to get a patch out tonight.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 11, 2019, 09:23:12 PM
@Sundog Thank you sir, look forward to when it's ready ^_^
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 09:28:55 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that would cause famous flagship bar events to sometimes fail
Fixed traits that modify missile rate of fire not being applied correctly, sometimes resulting in rediculous rapid-fire torpedoes
Added a setting to disable notifications about traits earned from peaceful xp: "showNewTraitNotifications"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 11, 2019, 10:24:18 PM
@Sundog damn that was a quick addition, thank yee kindly. The new setting has definitely helped (that or I'm miss judging it), but I still get some pop up for random ships. The xp gains for them seem to be from when they repair themselves, as their all freshly captured ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Embolism on October 11, 2019, 10:25:06 PM
Minor nitpick. In the bar events there's one for derelict ships that mentions 'years', AFAIK all references in vanilla are to 'cycles'.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 11:18:13 PM
@Sundog damn that was a quick addition, thank yee kindly.
No problem. It was a good suggestion  :)

The new setting has definitely helped (that or I'm miss judging it), but I still get some pop up for random ships. The xp gains for them seem to be from when they repair themselves, as their all freshly captured ships.
Yeah, the setting wasn't being applied at all because I was rushing and messed it up. Sorry about that. Fixed in the dev version: https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/Starship_Legends_dev.zip

Minor nitpick. In the bar events there's one for derelict ships that mentions 'years', AFAIK all references in vanilla are to 'cycles'.
That's a good point. I think you're right. I'll fix that for the next version. Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Piranhabunny on October 11, 2019, 11:29:32 PM
Hiya :)

First off thanks for the mod. Love it :D

Question: if a kite has militarized subsystems, will it still be counted as a civilian ship for purposes of what kind of traits it will get?

PB
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: SarenSoran on October 12, 2019, 02:08:27 AM
i think i found a way to exploit this mod, sry, but if i send in a few well armed cargo freighters it doesn't count them as combat capable ships and i can theoretically send in thirty of them and still it would show them as one point in fleet strength, this makes me able to just spam them with no problem regarding your mod and gain mad experience
i have no clue on how to fix this but i just wanted to tell you about this
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Metadane on October 12, 2019, 02:41:59 AM
Thank you for the mod Mr. Sundog sir.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 12, 2019, 03:41:37 AM
Ahah, thanks for the quick hotfix :D All is working fine now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 12, 2019, 03:42:28 AM
I turned the peacefulxp reputation gain off and I'm now getting an error in the background (red text telling me to contact modder) for Starship Legends everytime I run into a hostile remnant fleet to start combat.
I'm having a hard time reproducing this one. Could you send me the last hundred or so lines of the log file (starsector-core/starsector.log) after this error happens?

Edit: Hmm... so it looks like an error will occur at that point if the options file could not be read. Are you certain you didn't make any formatting mistakes when editing the peaceful xp gain rate? If that's the case, you should be getting an error when your save loads as well.

I've updated to the latest version and I am still getting the red error text notifications on the left side of the screen ( https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362237146469236738/632530211279208449/unknown.png ) without crashing when running into remnant fleets to start combat.
I have no issues when loading into a save file.
This is the last few lines of the error log.
https://pastebin.com/c7bZDZrG
This is my current settings for the mod
https://pastebin.com/f39ZYkAv
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Buff Skeleton on October 12, 2019, 08:34:30 AM
lol, I thought something was amiss after I updated to 1.3.1...

(https://i.imgur.com/BxjL130.png)

Firing Hurricanes faster than the Gungnir, lmao

Thanks for the fix!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: prav on October 12, 2019, 09:43:02 AM
i think i liked it best with Annihilator pods.

(https://i.imgur.com/lRiHO11.png)

how's that for a beam weapon?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Shad on October 12, 2019, 10:24:51 AM
i think i liked it best with Annihilator pods.

(https://i.imgur.com/lRiHO11.png)

how's that for a beam weapon?

Now, is there a mod which has weapons like this? This looks... gorgeous.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 12, 2019, 12:51:17 PM
First off thanks for the mod. Love it :D

Question: if a kite has militarized subsystems, will it still be counted as a civilian ship for purposes of what kind of traits it will get?
Glad you like it! In spite of having civilian-grade hulls, kites are still considered combat ships by both starship legends and vanilla. I think venture is another example of this. So a kite will be considered a combat ship whether it has militarized subsystems or not. As a rule, the only hullmods that might affect which traits a ship gets are built-in ones.

i think i found a way to exploit this mod, sry, but if i send in a few well armed cargo freighters it doesn't count them as combat capable ships and i can theoretically send in thirty of them and still it would show them as one point in fleet strength, this makes me able to just spam them with no problem regarding your mod and gain mad experience
i have no clue on how to fix this but i just wanted to tell you about this
Hmm... I'll have to give some thought to figuring out the best way to address that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

Thank you for the mod Mr. Sundog sir.
You're welcome for the mod Mr. Metadane sir.

Ahah, thanks for the quick hotfix :D All is working fine now.
No problem. Glad to hear it!

This is the last few lines of the error log.
https://pastebin.com/c7bZDZrG
Ah, thank you! I think that tells me what I need to know. It looks like the error happens because starship legends is running out of traits to give remnants. Did you increase "traitsPerTier" by any chance? Either way, it should be fixed for the next release.

@Buff Skeleton and prav: In spite of my shame over releasing that bug, those screenshots are pretty great!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Starareo on October 12, 2019, 12:53:29 PM
I'm currently modifying some my ruthless sector settings for the new update, just had some questions. Under # Ship Reputation Tiers #, what does "effectMult" modify? Also, how does the whole famous flagship and derelict bar event chance section work? Thanks.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 12, 2019, 11:19:43 PM
This is the last few lines of the error log.
https://pastebin.com/c7bZDZrG
Ah, thank you! I think that tells me what I need to know. It looks like the error happens because starship legends is running out of traits to give remnants. Did you increase "traitsPerTier" by any chance? Either way, it should be fixed for the next release.

[/quote]

Yeah I'm running at 9 traits per tier with a few other changes in the config file here. https://pastebin.com/f39ZYkAv
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: BringerofBabies on October 13, 2019, 06:41:20 AM
i think i found a way to exploit this mod, sry, but if i send in a few well armed cargo freighters it doesn't count them as combat capable ships and i can theoretically send in thirty of them and still it would show them as one point in fleet strength, this makes me able to just spam them with no problem regarding your mod and gain mad experience
i have no clue on how to fix this but i just wanted to tell you about this
Hmm... I'll have to give some thought to figuring out the best way to address that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

Determining what ships are combat capable vs purely civilian is certainly a tough issue that might even vary from player to player - I've only used HMI's Junk as a logistics ship, but some players may actually put effort into developing them into usable combat vessels.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 13, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.3 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that sometimes prevented fleet traits from being displayed or applied if "traitsPerTier" was set very high (above 8 or so)
Fixed new setting "showNewTraitNotifications" not being applied
Fixed non-lore friendly references to "years" in text instead of "cycles"
Fixed a few grammar mistakes in the bar event descriptions


Under # Ship Reputation Tiers #, what does "effectMult" modify?
It determines how strong effects are at that tier. The "durable" trait, for example, has a base effect of +2% hull integrity, so if the effectMult for the Famous tier is 7, then "durable" will grant +14% (2x7) hull integrity if it is a famous trait.

Also, how does the whole famous flagship and derelict bar event chance section work?
Basically, the higher it is the more likely it will be. If you set it to 0 then that event should never occur.

Yeah I'm running at 9 traits per tier with a few other changes in the config file here. https://pastebin.com/f39ZYkAv
Right! Sorry, I guess I forgot that you posted your settings while I was troubleshooting the issue. Anyway, this patch should fix it. Please let me know if it doesn't!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Starareo on October 13, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
Thanks for the clarification, love the mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 13, 2019, 07:10:37 PM
No problem. Glad you like it  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 14, 2019, 02:55:48 AM
Yeah the error from earlier on is gone.

I was wonder if this is normal behavior under ENEMY FLEET TRAITS setting: " "traitsForFleetsWithMaxLevelCommander":4, " if I am running 9 traits per reputation tier.
Additionally I have also set officer max level cap to 29 if that has any impact on this


Seems abit excessive to me and I hope there can be an options to limit this maybe in the following formats
A. occurrence/rarity of fleets with matching number of fleets traits to the player
B. some sort of hard cap to fleet traits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: tantananan on October 14, 2019, 03:15:25 AM
Hello! I absolutely love this mod!

Is there a way to change the trait multiplier for NPCs without changing the player multiplier? I want to be make NPCs more difficult with stronger traits while not changing my own.

Thank you!  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 14, 2019, 12:44:57 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.4 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed flagship bar events generating different reputations for the same ship at different markets
Fixed reloading clearing the reputation hullmod from famous AI flagships
Fixed fleet reputations changing on reload


@Deko: Yeah, reducing traitsForFleetsWithMaxLevelCommander sounds like a good way to do what you want. Starship legends does take officerMaxLevel into consideration as well, so your lvl 29 commanders should have 18 traits. "traitsForFleetsWithMaxLevelCommander" is misleading because it doesn't directly set the number of traits, but scales with the max possible number of traits, which is determined by "traitsPerTier" since there are always 4 tiers. This scaling behavior is pretty confusing (especially considering it contradicts the name of the setting in this case) so I'll probably remove it.

@tantananan: Glad you like it! There's no way to make traits grant different effects for NPCs than yourself, and I'm not sure I'd want to add a setting for that. It might not be quite sufficient for what you want, but you can increase the power of NPC fleets relative to your own by increasing "averageFractionOfGoodTraits" under "ENEMY FLEET TRAITS." The "baseRating" setting is meant to be the primary "difficulty slider" option for starship legends, as decreasing it will make it much harder to earn and maintain good traits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.4 - See original post for new features!
Post by: tantananan on October 14, 2019, 10:58:26 PM
Alright! Thank you so much for all your work! Love the new update! Cheers!

Edit: I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Sometimes the ship that had traits before the start of a battle doesnt have the traits when i salvage it. I'll get back when I experiment more.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 17, 2019, 04:54:16 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.5 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed a serious issue caused by famous derelict bar events spawning derelicts even if the quest was not accepted
   These derelicts were bugged, and would freeze the game when interacted with
   Loading a game with this version of starship legends or higher will remove them from the sector
Fixed famous flagship bar event sometimes choosing target fleets that are scheduled to despawn soon
Fixed remnant fleets sometimes being chosen for famous flagship events in systems with remnants and at least one market
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary (longstanding issue)
Changed: All famous derelict/flagship intel is now automatically marked important when accepted
Changed: Significantly reduced the chance for famous derelicts to be in good condition

Also, for those of you who maintain faction mods, I recently updated the instructions for integration with the new starship legends features.
Integration Instructions
  • First, download the example config file (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/factionConfigurations.json) and place it in "mods/YOUR_MOD/data/config/starship_legends/"
  • Edit the file to your liking. It's full of comments. You probably won't need most of it, so feel free to delete unneeded parts
  • Load a save file with this mod and your faction enabled
  • Check the log for a message like this: INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading config file for faction: your faction name
If you see that line in the log without any errors following it, then everything is probably working fine.

I'm happy to help with integration in any way I can, so feel free to ask for clarification/help/etc.
[close]


Alright! Thank you so much for all your work! Love the new update! Cheers!
Glad you like it! Cheers!

Edit: I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Sometimes the ship that had traits before the start of a battle doesnt have the traits when i salvage it. I'll get back when I experiment more.
I'd definitely call that a bug. Sorry for the trouble! I think this happens when you join a battle-in-progress that the famous flagship is involved in, but I haven't had time to properly look into it yet since it's pretty difficult to reproduce.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 17, 2019, 05:52:21 PM
really lovely mod, enjoyable

i would suggest adding settings with ratios for types of events based on "hullSize"

that allows to define different value for Frigates,Destroyers,Cruisers,Capital_Ship classes
(and other classes (e.g. fighter) or may get added later or introduced by some other mod)

some factions are more oriented on certain size ratio,
thus may want to increase ratio of e.g. smaller ship events over capital ships etc.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 17, 2019, 10:36:01 PM
After trying to add this to an ongoing game, it crashed after giving many errors ("null") after the first battle (with Remnants).
I then tried starting a new game and it crashed after I docked at a planet, opened the refit screen (no legend hullmods on the starter ships) and exited.

Mods: CombatChatter, Rebalanced Pilums, GraphicsLib, LazyLib, and VersionChecker only (these have no problems without Legends)
The Legend settings have not been changed from the defaults.

Below is the log after the "new game" crash. I docked at a hegemony planet since the fleet started next to it.
Spoiler
Quote
189136 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [faction_hegemony_market_03_friendly_var01.ogg]
189136 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [faction_hegemony_market_03_friendly_var01.ogg]
189632 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at starship_legends.RepRecord.existsFor(RepRecord.java:20)
   at starship_legends.RepRecord.existsFor(RepRecord.java:22)
   at starship_legends.RepRecord.updateRepHullMod(RepRecord.java:39)
   at starship_legends.CampaignScript.reportPlayerClosedMarket(CampaignScript.java:447)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.reportPlayerClosedMarket(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.dialogDismissed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.dismiss(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.dismiss(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper.advanceImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.advanceImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 17, 2019, 10:53:57 PM
Bar encounter with "storyteller" causes station UI to crash when I try to activate the dialogue in ver. 1.3.5.  The event also seems to be unusually common in the system I first start a Nexerelin campaign in.

Mods enabled:


Doesn't seem to occur in the previous version, but I haven't found the encounter on the 1.3.4 ver. either.

Looks like it's fixed in the 1.3.6 version.  Cheers!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 17, 2019, 11:18:16 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.6 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed everything broken by 1.3.5 (which was basically everything) - Apologies to those of you who downloaded it

Change log for 1.3.5:

Fixed a serious issue caused by famous derelict bar events spawning derelicts even if the quest was not accepted
   These derelicts were bugged, and would freeze the game when interacted with
   Loading a game with this version of starship legends or higher will remove them from the sector
Fixed famous flagship bar event sometimes choosing target fleets that are scheduled to despawn soon
Fixed remnant fleets sometimes being chosen for famous flagship events in systems with remnants and at least one market
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary (longstanding issue)
Changed: All famous derelict/flagship intel is now automatically marked important when accepted
Changed: Significantly reduced the chance for famous derelicts to be in good condition


Also, for those of you who maintain faction mods, I recently updated the instructions for integration with the new starship legends features.
Integration Instructions
  • First, download the example config file (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/factionConfigurations.json) and place it in "mods/YOUR_MOD/data/config/starship_legends/"
  • Edit the file to your liking. It's full of comments. You probably won't need most of it, so feel free to delete unneeded parts
  • Load a save file with this mod and your faction enabled
  • Check the log for a message like this: INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading config file for faction: your faction name
If you see that line in the log without any errors following it, then everything is probably working fine.

I'm happy to help with integration in any way I can, so feel free to ask for clarification/help/etc.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 17, 2019, 11:39:57 PM
Thanks for the fix!!   :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 17, 2019, 11:47:34 PM
@Alavaria and Daidez: Thank you both for the reports. 1.3.5 had all kinds of issues that all stemmed from the same cause. I took down the links to it, but I should have also posted here to let people know. I'm sorry for all the trouble, but I really do appreciate you guys giving me a heads-up.

Thanks for the fix!!   :D
You're welcome! But I really am sorry it was necessary at all... Even if it was only up for four hours, a patch should never break anything, let alone the entire mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 18, 2019, 02:34:02 AM
Yes, seems to work with no problems now, perfect.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: majorfreak on October 18, 2019, 11:28:27 AM
hey, just like to say keep it up, my man! this mod truly does add "extra flavor"...especially since i fiddled with the settings.json and have 90+ ships in fleet and 80 officers
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Salv on October 18, 2019, 12:46:55 PM
Got an error when choosing the 'ask where x may be found' dialog option for a derelict. The other event type works fine though. Here's the log:

5238865 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.optionSelected(FamousShipBarEvent.java:568)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.BarEventDialogPlugin.optionSelecte d(BarEventDialogPlugin.java:53)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.O0Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

 The game was started with the 1.3.5 version, then I updated it to the newest one. Hope this doesn't mean the bar event is busted on that save :'(.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 18, 2019, 02:33:21 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.7 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that prevented some derelict bar events from being accepted


The game was started with the 1.3.5 version, then I updated it to the newest one. Hope this doesn't mean the bar event is busted on that save :'(.
Thanks for reporting this. It was another bug introduced in 1.3.5. I didn't catch it with 1.3.6, but that bar event should work now with 1.3.7

hey, just like to say keep it up, my man! this mod truly does add "extra flavor"...especially since i fiddled with the settings.json and have 90+ ships in fleet and 80 officers
Thanks! Glad you like it  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Reens on October 18, 2019, 04:39:11 PM
Awesome mod!

Some of the traits should require the system they're modifying to actually exist though. It doesn't really make sense that a ship that has no missile hardpoints can have "Fast Missile Loaders" or a phase ship with "Powerful Shields".
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 18, 2019, 05:01:37 PM
Awesome mod!
Glad you like it!

Some of the traits should require the system they're modifying to actually exist though. It doesn't really make sense that a ship that has no missile hardpoints can have "Fast Missile Loaders" or a phase ship with "Powerful Shields".
Are you seeing that happen? If so it's a bug.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Starareo on October 18, 2019, 05:07:23 PM
Is there a reason why my civilian ships always get more negative traits than usual? I obviously don't send them into combat, but I am running Ruthless Sector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Reens on October 18, 2019, 05:19:28 PM
Are you seeing that happen? If so it's a bug.

I only noticed it on some modded ships, so maybe its just a compatibility issue. The Vril frigate (from Sylphon) gained the missile loaders buffs - it has 2 small energy, 1 medium energy and 2 built in energy PD turrets. The Royco mod frigate (IBB from SWP) gained shields even though its a phase ship.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 18, 2019, 10:50:35 PM
Is there a reason why my civilian ships always get more negative traits than usual? I obviously don't send them into combat, but I am running Ruthless Sector.
I just checked the code, and it looks like the "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" setting should be working as intended. It's set to 0.5 (or 50%) both with and without ruthless sector. I didn't notice any significant deviation from this while playtesting either. It's based entirely on RNG, so there's a chance you've just been unlucky. What kind of good/bad ratio are you getting for civilian ships?

I only noticed it on some modded ships, so maybe its just a compatibility issue. The Vril frigate (from Sylphon) gained the missile loaders buffs - it has 2 small energy, 1 medium energy and 2 built in energy PD turrets. The Royco mod frigate (IBB from SWP) gained shields even though its a phase ship.
Yeah, those ships definitely shouldn't be getting those traits. I thought this might be a compatibility issue for the Royco since it's so unconventional, but its shield type is set to PHASE, which is what starship legends checks for, so everything should be working as intended. Were those ships famous flagships or derelicts by any chance? The mod is supposed to check for this kind of thing while generating traits for those as well, but something might be preventing that from working correctly.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 19, 2019, 12:19:47 AM
i do wonder, any reason after winning battles my crew hates it's captain/officer more ?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Takion Kasukedo on October 19, 2019, 07:21:00 AM
This question has likely been asked before, but how do you add more reputation tiers to Starship Legends?

eg; I tried this and it doesn't look like it works in campaign and i'm wondering if it works on your side? Running this with Ruthless Sector.

Spoiler
    "notable":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":80000,
      "effectMult":3,
   },
   "wellknown":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":160000,
      "effectMult":4,
   },
   "illustrous":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":960000,
      "effectMult":5,
   },
   "famous":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":4600000,
      "effectMult":6,
   },
   "distinguished":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":12000000,
      "effectMult":7,
   },
   "revered":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":72000000,
      "effectMult":8,
   },
   "legendary":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":460000000,
      "effectMult":9,
   },
   "peerless":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":940000000,
      "effectMult":10,
   },
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 19, 2019, 01:03:05 PM
i do wonder, any reason after winning battles my crew hates it's captain/officer more ?
My guess is that the officer's ship took a lot of hull damage in the battle. Loyalty changes are based on a "battle rating," which is basically a score for how well the ship performed in the battle. Taking hull damage reduces that score a lot.

how do you add more reputation tiers to Starship Legends?
Unfortunately, there's no easy way to do it. It's possible, but you'd have to change starship legend's code (which is completely fine by me)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 19, 2019, 03:03:04 PM
i do wonder, any reason after winning battles my crew hates it's captain/officer more ?
My guess is that the officer's ship took a lot of hull damage in the battle. Loyalty changes are based on a "battle rating," which is basically a score for how well the ship performed in the battle. Taking hull damage reduces that score a lot.

does this fix by winning battles afterward ? i won many since but the captain rating isn't improving (the ship in question received 0 dmg in those while scoring some assist / kills )
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 19, 2019, 03:33:44 PM
Yes, it's definitely possible to improve the loyalty of that ship's crew to that officer. The chance to improve loyalty is better if the ship does well in battle. Another option is to move that officer to a new ship with a crew that is indifferent to them. You can also increase "improveLoyaltyChanceMult" in the options file to make it easier to increase loyalty.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: OldManHenderson on October 20, 2019, 07:24:27 AM
Is there a reason I've yet to find any storytellers?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 20, 2019, 05:04:34 PM
Storytellers are supposed to be very common, so you should be finding them in bars at about half of the markets you visit. Maybe more. I'm still seeing them all over the place. What kind of markets have you been visiting? How many? It's possible for faction mods to disable the event at their markets, but I'm not aware of any factions that have done that. By default, storytellers will show up at the markets of any faction that is visible in the intel screen. Come to think of it, the player faction isn't included in that. I'll have to fix that. Have you mostly been visiting bars at markets owned by your own faction? It's also possible to disable storytellers in the options file. I can't think of any other likely reasons for you not to be getting them, but then, if you've visited many markets without seeing even one then it's unlikely to be a coincidence.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 20, 2019, 05:23:19 PM
some ideas for @sundog

it would be nice when

'prisoners' or 'freed captives' after battles could tell some stories
or
after 'rescuing' someone via distress call they would drop some rumor or tip as part of thanks

etc.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Starareo on October 20, 2019, 07:52:04 PM
@Sundog

With regards to the civilian ship issue, I'm pretty sure I just had bad rng, I did get a streak of good traits right after lmao. What value would I change to make it so civilian ships only get positive traits?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 20, 2019, 08:34:27 PM
@Dwarden: Things like that could be pretty cool. Distress calls in particular could definitely stand to be more worthwhile. I'm not sure how practical it is to implement, but I'll add that to my list of feature ideas so I can look into it at some point.

@Starareo: Glad to hear it wasn't a bug, but sorry about the bad luck! Setting "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" to 1.0 should ensure that civilian ships will only get good traits. If you want to remove existing bad traits from your ships you could use console commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0). Enter "help starship_legends" to see the list of commands related to reputation editing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Starareo on October 20, 2019, 08:38:13 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 20, 2019, 08:42:08 PM
No problem  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 22, 2019, 06:18:56 AM
When a ship reaches 100% rating and then "overflows" is that amount affected by the ship itself? Eg: a 5-point frigate destroys a 40 point capital ship, which would be 800%, is that what is used, or is the point value of the killing ship not used?

I have a bunch of "ECM support" Buffalo IIs (4 points each) which I assume scratch some paint with their fighters and thus have damage inflicted around 200%,
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 22, 2019, 11:07:09 AM
Powerful ships do need to deal more hull damage in order to increase their rating via damage, so yes, in that sense rating overflow is affected by the ship's strength. However, once battle rating is calculated it doesn't matter. If a Paragon and a Hound both have a rating of 110% at the end of a battle, they will both share the same amount of rating with the other ships.

It sounds like those Buffalo IIs are working out well for you. Do you think the ECM support bonus is too strong?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 23, 2019, 03:14:34 AM
It sounds like those Buffalo IIs are working out well for you.
Well, when your hull is listed as being at a very low value, I guess it's very easy to scratch some hull and gain a ton of points. They do as much damage with a Pilum+Thunder fighter as a Monitor which has an officer and Ion Cannon + Dual Light Machinegun. But the latter consistently don't get to do hull damage, unlike the fighters who get on everything small that dies.

So it's either bombers/LRMs or just knifefighting with fighters/frigates using Machineguns. Though the ones knife-fighting remnant battleships (or superships thanks to the Seeker mod) are the least well-known, compared to the Buffalos who scratch hull from very far away with relatively little risk (Thunder range of 8000).

Spoiler
(http://lpix.org/3565574/Fleet_1.jpg)
(http://lpix.org/3565575/Fleet_2.jpg)
[close]
Do you think the ECM support bonus is too strong?
Actually the ECM isn't important, as the most important is just to avoid taking the penalty. But it might make enemies come in closer, though most of the useful damage is done by bombers anyway. Well, the first 4 are handy just on their hull-based 2% to speed, as the fleet deploys with 17% to start with and would like 8 points to reach 25% (while you can use up to another 15 or so to counter the enemy fleet ECM, which is easily done by having those Buffalos carry ECM hullmods).


The combat statistics mod suggests I take about as much damage as I deal out, presumably this is largely cut down by Fortress Shields and vented passively (especially since a lot of the Remnants' damage would be soft flux).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 23, 2019, 10:53:43 AM
Though the ones knife-fighting remnant battleships (or superships thanks to the Seeker mod) are the least well-known, compared to the Buffalos who scratch hull from very far away with relatively little risk (Thunder range of 8000).
Yeah, that makes sense. Your monitors still seem to have very good ratings, but I assume that's mostly from the rating overflow of other ships. That's an interesting fleet composition. I like it.

Actually the ECM isn't important, as the most important is just to avoid taking the penalty. But it might make enemies come in closer, though most of the useful damage is done by bombers anyway. Well, the first 4 are handy just on their hull-based 2% to speed, as the fleet deploys with 17% to start with and would like 8 points to reach 25% (while you can use up to another 15 or so to counter the enemy fleet ECM, which is easily done by having those Buffalos carry ECM hullmods).
Ok, cool. Sounds like the support bonuses are working out roughly as I hoped
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 23, 2019, 02:57:52 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.8 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
All Starship Legends updates are save-compatible unless explicitly stated otherwise

Fixed storytellers never appearing at markets owned by the player's faction
Fixed fleets from enhanced bounty missions (Vayra's Sector) not showing up as famous flagship targets
Fixed timed derelict recovery mission map icons not having a gauge for the remaining time
Fixed factions with integration data in faction files overriding data for the same faction in factionConfigs files
Fixed ships with no/few missile slots getting missile related traits while ships with many missile slots couldn't
Fixed ships with no weapon slots being able to get weapon related traits
Added a check to remove irrelevant traits (as above) whenever a game is loaded with a new version of the mod
Added a short description of the target fleet's last known activity to famous flagship intel
Changed missile related trait effect descriptions to make them more clear:
   missile reload rate  ->  missile rate of fire
   missile agility  ->  missile maneuvering
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: majorfreak on October 23, 2019, 05:31:10 PM
Is there a reason I've yet to find any storytellers?
i'm having that problem currently as well...i kind of cheated and used transverse before tutorial completion (yes, i admit i'm that guy)
when you do that no bar events happen...maybe i glitched it? anyways, i'm just in the early stages - after completing tutorial after a year of exploiting samarra - so will edit if i start seeing them again (hopefully after i install this new patch)


yup. fixed
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: exelsiar on October 24, 2019, 09:43:13 AM
Hi just installed the update, and imediatly noticed the story tellers are showing up on my worlds now. Great! Except I have both types of story teller completely disabled via the setting files.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 24, 2019, 12:44:17 PM
Pretty sure I'm having some issue with saving multiple times in a session because of your mod working with a bunch of others. I believe it's a cache issue, where the cache isn't being emptied. Since after I exit the game it works fine for about 5-6 saves.

I looked at the log and it pointed to your mod being the issue. Hence why I'm pretty sure it's your mod. I don't have PC access for a few days (out of town), but I'll post the log here later if you want.

Anyways, I like the mod a lot! It's a fantastic idea, and adds to the game and other mods significantly.

Keep up the work, and I'm sure everyone who uses your mod appreciates the time and effort you put in. Thank you :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 24, 2019, 04:16:06 PM
@I_is_nublet: Hey, welcome to the forum and thanks for the info! Glad you like the mod  :)
Are you referring to the memory issue you mentioned in the Nexerelin thread? I'm pretty sure this is the first I've heard about this, and I don't have a lot to go on, so whatever it is that's pointing to starship legends in your log would be really useful. I couldn't find anything wrong after simply saving repeatedly while looking through the log and monitoring memory usage, but I'll keep an eye out during my next long play session.


yup. fixed
Glad to hear it! Yeah, I suspect that no bar events would occur at all before the tutorial ends.


Hi just installed the update, and imediatly noticed the story tellers are showing up on my worlds now. Great! Except I have both types of story teller completely disabled via the setting files.
So you have these lines in your settings file?
Quote
   "famousFlagshipBarEventChance":0.0,
   "famousDerelictBarEventChance":0.0,
Are you using ruthless sector? If so, starship legends will use RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini instead of STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini.
Stroytellers that were there previously would also still be there after changing those settings (at least until the event expires).
Another possibility is that an error is occurring while starship legends tries to read your options file. An error message should show up in-game if that's the case, but if not then the error should still show up in the log.
After re-checking the code it looks like those settings should be working as intended, but I added an extra check just in case.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Buff Skeleton on October 24, 2019, 05:20:28 PM
I am starting to think something is up with remembering loyalty for some ships. I was switching between an Onslaught and a Doom as my main flagship somewhat frequently while collecting bounties, and in one of the most recent battle reports, it shows the crew of the Onslaught had grown Confident in me. But later on, after going home and refitting a bit of stuff, I put myself back in command and now it only shows Indifferent.

I'm using Ruthless Sector as well, and I keep a close eye on my battle reports. I didn't see it drop down from Confident to Indifferent in any of the recent ones, so I'm not sure how that happened.

I also lost the Doom at one point, but recovered it, and when I did, I had gone from Fiercely Loyal to Indifferent. I've recovered ships and seen loyalty go down one level before (both for me and officers), but not all the way to zero.

I thought maybe it was because the entire crew of the ship had died (which wouldn't be unreasonable, heh) and thus I had a whole new set of people to impress, but given other lost ships have come back with only slight (or sometimes no) penalties to loyalty from their crews after recovery, I'm wondering if there's a bug here. None of the other ship characteristics changed either.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 24, 2019, 05:30:27 PM
Yep, same issue (in reply to sundog). As I said tho I have a fair number of mods. So it could be a combo specifically. In which case I'd be SOL.

I will try to narrow it down once I get the chance (if that is what it is).

I am using Windows 10 (which could be the reason in itself). I'll do a paste bin of my dxdiag later. Specs aren't bad, higher end.

But the error message that popped up was something about gc overhead limit reached(I think, eventually save time would get longer and longer till it no longer saved and that message would pop up). The log was showing starship legends something or the other.

Anyways, thank you for your time and the greeting :)
(Using phone, formatting is a pain)

Edit:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10908.0
This is the problem pretty much. However the only mods I have that are common with that (keeping in mind the post is 3 years old) are nexerelin, portrait mod and the lib mods (when this started happening).

In that link tho, it seems to be a game memory leak, not a mod. And based on which java version the game was running off of.

 What a pain in the butt. Ugh. I'll test it more and get back to you.

Edit 2:
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8726.0
And just found that. I'll look into that too. Good stuff on the forums here! :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 24, 2019, 10:30:01 PM
I'm also seeing some stutter on saving. I think this only started after updating to the latest version of Legends though.

It's unfortunate that "civilian" ships do not get ratings, since I just got a nice Valkyrie troop transport blueprint and was using them in combat.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: exelsiar on October 25, 2019, 05:23:40 AM
Hi just installed the update, and imediatly noticed the story tellers are showing up on my worlds now. Great! Except I have both types of story teller completely disabled via the setting files.
So you have these lines in your settings file?
Quote
   "famousFlagshipBarEventChance":0.0,
   "famousDerelictBarEventChance":0.0,
Are you using ruthless sector? If so, starship legends will use RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini instead of STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini.
Stroytellers that were there previously would also still be there after changing those settings (at least until the event expires).
Another possibility is that an error is occurring while starship legends tries to read your options file. An error message should show up in-game if that's the case, but if not then the error should still show up in the log.
After re-checking the code it looks like those settings should be working as intended, but I added an extra check just in case.

I was not aware of those lines, I was using:
"allowFamousFlagshipBarEvent":false,
"allowFamousDerelictBarEvent":false,
from the sun_sl folder

Have changed the ones you mentioned, still getting them.
Though I would have expected the lines I mentioned to have worked.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 25, 2019, 05:40:19 AM
I was not aware of those lines, I was using:
"allowFamousFlagshipBarEvent":false,
"allowFamousDerelictBarEvent":false,
from the sun_sl folder

Have changed the ones you mentioned, still getting them.
Though I would have expected the lines I mentioned to have worked.

Did you try visiting a system you haven't visted in months to see if the event still proc'ced?

If it still procs, then yea. Something is wrong.

 If it doesnt then the event at your current lication just needs to expire (which would be about an in-game month. Provided you leave the planet alone and don't visit it during that month).

Edit: ah. Just thought of it. You probably have to visit each planet in order for the event to proc the expiration cycle. So visit a few planetd, wait a month. Then see if the event still procs fir those planets
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: exelsiar on October 25, 2019, 06:44:46 AM
Heh I went a step further and started a new game to test it, everythings working perfectly now. Thanks :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 25, 2019, 09:21:17 AM
I'm also seeing some stutter on saving. I think this only started after updating to the latest version of Legends though.

It's unfortunate that "civilian" ships do not get ratings, since I just got a nice Valkyrie troop transport blueprint and was using them in combat.

Civ ships do get ratings. It's just slower on them to get it is all.

As for the save stutter, did you modify the game files to use more RAM if you can?

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8726.0

And do you use other mods?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 25, 2019, 10:25:04 AM
Civ ships do get ratings. It's just slower on them to get it is all.
They get traits, are ratings hidden though? It also shows up as just a "-" in the battle results screen, so I can't tell if they're effectively at 50% for getting traits or not.
Spoiler
(http://lpix.org/3567424/ValkRating.jpg)
[close]

As for the save stutter, did you modify the game files to use more RAM if you can?

And do you use other mods?
Yes, though only 2Gb since the computer has 4. A few other mods, but I think only FDS has a faction in it, the rest are a couple of ship mods, no nex or anything else.
But since I haven't crashed/locked up, it's hard to say if that's the same as the others had.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 25, 2019, 09:58:39 PM
On memory usage: I got the chance to look for cases of wasteful memory usage yesterday, and I did confirm that the memory leak I thought I fixed in 1.3.5 is still there. However, that one shouldn't be causing the issues you guys are describing because it's a one-time thing, not something that progressively gets worse the longer you play (also: it's been there since the beginning, so it wouldn't be causing new issues). It might be a few days before I get a good opportunity, but I'm going to do a thorough check for these types of issues. Sharship legends should have a very low memory footprint, so I want to make sure that's actually the case.

I was not aware of those lines, I was using:
"allowFamousFlagshipBarEvent":false,
"allowFamousDerelictBarEvent":false,
from the sun_sl folder
Those lines are for setting whether or not an event is available in markets owned by specific factions. It sounds like you edited defaultFactionReputation.json, which defines the defaults for faction configurations, and generally isn't intended to be edited. All vanilla factions (including the player faction) overwrite those defaults, so it makes sense that your edits would've been ignored in most cases.

Heh I went a step further and started a new game to test it, everythings working perfectly now.
Glad to hear it! Sorry for the trouble.

It's unfortunate that "civilian" ships do not get ratings, since I just got a nice Valkyrie troop transport blueprint and was using them in combat.
Yeah, it might make things more interesting sometimes for them to get ratings, but it would also inevitably lead to a lot of players arranging weird battles intended for the sole purpose of improving the combat rating of civilian ships. It could probably be done, but it would require quite a lot of work to make it work well, and I don't think it would be worth it.

Civ ships do get ratings. It's just slower on them to get it is all.
As Alavaria said, they do get traits, but they don't get ratings (excepting the possibility of some setting I'm forgetting about that would allow it)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ddubistro on October 26, 2019, 04:08:28 AM
Hi,

First wanna say that I love the idea behind this mod and thanks for making it :D

I wanted to ask if it is possible to add an option where: "if no hull damage where taken" and "new rating is lower than previous rating" then previous rating is unchanged?

The problem I have is that when I face weak opponent such as automated defence on Domain Pode or chasing a fleet that try to flee (and even if I try to get the minimum ship possible, for chasing a small fleet it's just not possible if you wanna be sure to take down most of them), very often my high reputation ships are gonna lose reputation and may get a bad skill just because of that. It's really frustrating since the ship did noting bad to deserve it. It's even more true when helping an ally fleet that launch a pursuit or using a ship to keep away little ship/frigate on flanks to prevent them attacking your capital back. It's also punish you using back up near the end of a fight because of that too.

It would be amazing ^^

Anyway thanks again for this great mod :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: JustALittleGravitas on October 26, 2019, 01:37:26 PM
What the person above me said.

Also I'm seeing a really high rate of civilian ships ending up with traits that compromise the fleet (fuel guzzling, increased sensor profile, etc).  Suggest either making things that effect fleet performance rarer, or changing the odds of good bad traits to something other than 50-50 (going to try 75% good and see how that works since I can do it in settings).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SCC on October 26, 2019, 02:06:43 PM
Congrats on overcoming the many troubles you encountered so far. The mechanics and the design of this mod are captivating. Even if I had more fun occasionally helping you with it, than playing with it. Nice work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 26, 2019, 08:58:18 PM
First wanna say that I love the idea behind this mod and thanks for making it :D
You're welcome! It's been a fun project so far  :)

I wanted to ask if it is possible to add an option where: "if no hull damage where taken" and "new rating is lower than previous rating" then previous rating is unchanged?
It's certainly possible. I would like to do something like that to address the types of situations you mentioned. That kind of thing isn't something that bothers me personally, but discouraging the use of more force than necessary isn't one of the goals of this mod. Preventing rating reductions for ships that don't lose any hull during the battle isn't a bad idea. It's too binary for my liking and it would add more complexity to the rating system (which is already too complex), but it would solve the problem. I'll have to mull it over. Something I've been considering for months now is disabling the rating system and all negative traits so that players would only get bonuses, but so would NPC fleets.

Suggest either making things that effect fleet performance rarer, or changing the odds of good bad traits to something other than 50-50
I try to keep this mod from affecting vanilla difficulty too much (at least with default settings), hence the 50-50 chance of good/bad traits for civilian ships. Even then, it still makes the game slightly easier because you can choose to keep the ships with the best reputations.

Congrats on overcoming the many troubles you encountered so far. The mechanics and the design of this mod are captivating. Even if I had more fun occasionally helping you with it, than playing with it. Nice work.
Well, thanks! It's definitely been interesting so far. If I had to start over I certainly wouldn't base traits on any measure of combat performance. I knew I was opening a can of worms, but damn...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 27, 2019, 09:36:08 AM
Because a group of ships like the Valkyrie can use fighters to kill frigates (ie: score hull damage) and they don't have a "conventional" rating, it seems rather easy for them to get good traits due to the rule about not getting bad traits if your rating rose. (and they show up in the report with a rating like "- (+5%)"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RustyCabbage on October 27, 2019, 01:06:12 PM
Hi Sundog, first off thank you for the excellent mod!

At the moment I feel like the "Listen to the Storyteller" events are a little too common. I'm not sure if they count towards the total for minGenericMissions and maxGenericMissions found in settings.json, but despite having raised those values from their defaults slightly I rarely see e.g. delivery missions anymore, while basically every planet has the rumors bar event. Is this unusual?

Additionally, I encountered a minor bug wherein I took the location of a rumored ship and had my credits deducted into a negative balance. I don't think that the event told me it would cost me in this case, and in any case credits in vanilla are always non-negative, so this seems non-standard. I tried to reproduce it but didn't have any luck there.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 27, 2019, 03:15:35 PM
Nublet here again

I can't seem to find the error specific to your mod anymore (or was high off of oxygen and thought it was your mod).

Mostly seems to be pointing to Varya's mod having some issues, a couple in Tahlans, and one ship not being created in the ship data csv file (Dara_paragus No idea which mod that'd be from, but I'll figure it out and post to them later).

But either way, glad that you caught the mem drain in your mod (which I knew something was draining ram after I installed a few mods, but yours was by far the most information/saving intensive mod of the ones I installed at that point, so the GC was prob having issues with a few loops or something) again.

Keep up the solid work :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 27, 2019, 05:01:27 PM
Because a group of ships like the Valkyrie can use fighters to kill frigates (ie: score hull damage) and they don't have a "conventional" rating, it seems rather easy for them to get good traits due to the rule about not getting bad traits if your rating rose. (and they show up in the report with a rating like "- (+5%)"
True! That's two bugs right there. I never send civilian ships into battle, so I never noticed. Not sure exactly how I'll address this, but I'll put it on my list. Thanks for pointing it out!

Hi Sundog, first off thank you for the excellent mod!
;D

At the moment I feel like the "Listen to the Storyteller" events are a little too common. I'm not sure if they count towards the total for minGenericMissions and maxGenericMissions found in settings.json, but despite having raised those values from their defaults slightly I rarely see e.g. delivery missions anymore, while basically every planet has the rumors bar event. Is this unusual?
A high occurrence of storytellers isn't unusual or unintended, but it is a problem if they're noticeably reducing the frequency of other bar events. I'll have to look into exactly how bar events are spawned to check on this. The reason for how common storyteller events are is that I expect most of them (especially flagship intel) to be dismissed, since they're only useful if they offer a ship and traits that the player is interested in. For now, if you like, you can reduce the occurrence of these events by reducing famousFlagshipBarEventChance and famousDerelictBarEventChance in the options file.

Additionally, I encountered a minor bug wherein I took the location of a rumored ship and had my credits deducted into a negative balance. I don't think that the event told me it would cost me in this case, and in any case credits in vanilla are always non-negative, so this seems non-standard. I tried to reproduce it but didn't have any luck there.
Hmm... sorry about that! It's not supposed to let you accept the mission if you don't have enough money. After looking through the code I think I see a way this might happen sometimes, so if I'm right I should be able to reproduce it myself.

I can't seem to find the error specific to your mod anymore (or was high off of oxygen and thought it was your mod).

Mostly seems to be pointing to Varya's mod having some issues, a couple in Tahlans, and one ship not being created in the ship data csv file (Dara_paragus No idea which mod that'd be from, but I'll figure it out and post to them later).

Well, thanks for looking! If you still have the relevant log you might try searching starship_legends, which should appear in all this mod's log entries. Dara is the prefix for Disassemble Reassemble.

Keep up the solid work :)
If you insist  :P
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DatonKallandor on October 27, 2019, 06:02:19 PM
Something I've been considering for months now is disabling the rating system and all negative traits so that players would only get bonuses, but so would NPC fleets.

I hope that doesn't happen. The negatives as well as the positives are what makes the mod interesting. Otherwise it's just a buff mod and that's boring.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 27, 2019, 09:12:17 PM
The negatives as well as the positives are what makes the mod interesting. Otherwise it's just a buff mod and that's boring.
Yeah, I agree. That's why I haven't done it yet. I'm pretty happy with the rating system anyway, but it will never be perfect.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 28, 2019, 03:15:18 AM
5989770 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.regen(FamousShipBarEvent.java:329)
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.addPromptAndOption(FamousShipBarEvent.java:407)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.showOptions(BarCMD.java:113)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.execute(BarCMD.java:85)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)


Got one. Pretty much just went to a bar, error. Didn't crash, just error.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 28, 2019, 09:23:16 AM
Thanks for the report! Looks like a storyteller event tried to choose a market (to spawn a fleet from) that wasn't properly attached to a star system (in spite of being inside one). Should be fixed in the dev build. I'll be releasing it soon, after a little more testing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 28, 2019, 01:24:20 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.9 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Changed: By default, combat rating reductions will now be multiplied by the percentage of lost hull integrity
   This means no reductions will occur for ships that take no damage
   To balance this change, baseRating has been reduced from 75% to 65% (default) and 40% to 30% (with ruthless sector)
   Added "multiplyRatingLossesByPercentageOfLostHull" setting to allow this change to be disabled
Fixed famous derelicts always having names based on the independent faction
Fixed civilian ships getting rating adjustments when deployed in combat
Fixed a rare bug that sometimes caused money do be deducted when accepting storyteller events that shouldn't cost money to accept
Fixed AI flavor text being used for mothballed ships that would otherwise require crew
Fixed a rare error that would close the dialog screen when "visiting a dockside bar"
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary (fixed previously in 1.3.5, but that fix was reverted due to complications)
Changed: Reduced default frequency of storytellers in bars by 50%
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: majorfreak on October 28, 2019, 02:06:56 PM
cheers for 50% storyteller reduction. was feeling a bit spammy
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 28, 2019, 03:53:26 PM
Awesome! I like that log! Glad to help ^^
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: FAX on October 28, 2019, 06:15:56 PM
Thanks for your job! There is really great pleasure to play such an excelent mod. :)

But I had also found a question. Some guys just told me that they feel awful when they had to spend many time and energy for a series of buff ( they could not bearing a useless one or even debuff, It's hard to understand for me but everyone have a mind of his own ).

As for me, the hullmod of Star Legend are just like a medal, the memory of my battle. It looks well but, lack of sense of participation, i mean it is uncontrolled completely.

Maybe, this is just my opinion, the  traits we can earn after battle can offer 2-3 choose(it may looks like level-up of officers) will be better, a Limited List is better than random in my thought.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 28, 2019, 09:41:53 PM
I'm not getting any "storyteller" encounters at all after 1.3.9.  Tried to find one on a new save, but either I was unlucky or it really isn't working.

I tried rolling back to 1.3.8, and that works just as advertised.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 28, 2019, 11:04:12 PM
cheers for 50% storyteller reduction. was feeling a bit spammy
Agreed. We'll see if 50% was enough.

Awesome! I like that log! Glad to help ^^
;D

Thanks for your job! There is really great pleasure to play such an excelent mod. :)
Glad you like it!  :)

Some guys just told me that they feel awful when they had to spend many time and energy for a series of buff ( they could not bearing a useless one or even debuff, It's hard to understand for me but everyone have a mind of his own ).
You might want to suggest to them setting "ignoreAllMaluses" to true in the options file. It sounds like they might prefer it that way.

As for me, the hullmod of Star Legend are just like a medal, the memory of my battle. It looks well but, lack of sense of participation, i mean it is uncontrolled completely.

Maybe, this is just my opinion, the  traits we can earn after battle can offer 2-3 choose(it may looks like level-up of officers) will be better, a Limited List is better than random in my thought.
The randomness of traits in this mod is very deliberate/intentional. Having more control over bonuses definitely has some advantages, but I don't think it's a good fit for this particular mod. On the bright side, the next version of Starsector will allow us to add permanent hullmods without costing any OP, which will have a similar effect.

I'm not getting any "storyteller" encounters at all after 1.3.9.  Tried to find one on a new save, but either I was unlucky or it really isn't working.

I tried rolling back to 1.3.8, and that works just as advertised.
I'm still seeing plenty of new storytellers with 1.3.9 (in both old and new saves). Not sure what could be causing them not to show up. Have you edited the options file at all?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 28, 2019, 11:51:08 PM
I did get that error again in the new version just fyi. But I am also still seeing 19270872 story tellers. I might have installed it wrong (which is possible and easy fix). Or it could just not be affecting my campaign at the moment (I played for about 2 in-game years after updating) and I need to start a new campaign.

But I definitely think the memory leak is much lessened or gone now tho. I am still seeing a few but that's probably from Tahlan's or Nex or one of the other bigger mods I'm running.

^^
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 12:25:47 AM
I'm still seeing plenty of new storytellers with 1.3.9 (in both old and new saves). Not sure what could be causing them not to show up. Have you edited the options file at all?

I haven't touched the options at all.  I will try 1.3.9 version again just to see if I possibly made a mistake while updating.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2019, 01:18:40 AM
I did get that error again in the new version just fyi.
I guess I was wrong about the cause and didn't actually fix it. I never did manage to reproduce it. To make sure it's the same thing, could you PM me the error message from the log? It might look the same as the one from 1.3.8, but it'll have some small differences that are important.

But I am also still seeing 19270872 story tellers.
I likely just didn't reduce the frequency enough to make much of a difference. I might also need to increase some of their cooldowns.

I haven't touched the options at all.  I will try 1.3.9 version again just to see if I possibly made a mistake while updating.
How many markets did you check without seeing any storytellers? It might have just been bad luck. It's also possible for faction mods to disable storytellers at their market's, but as far as I know no one has done that. What kinds of markets have you been checking? Were they all owned by the same modded faction?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 29, 2019, 04:29:05 AM
Well, I reinstalled the mod (redownloaded, unzipped. Deleted old, pasted etc.) Started a new campaign (was thinking it anyway, and wanting to add a few last mods before I stop adding mods lol).

There are a lot less story tellers now. So probably I didn't install it correctly, or it didn't wanna replace the junk in that save.

Either way, if I come across the error again I will paste it here. But I'll still look at it and compare, see if I can find any differences.

Edit: It is different enough (pointing to different specific lines). So I'll PM it to you.

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 10:14:26 AM
How many markets did you check without seeing any storytellers? It might have just been bad luck. It's also possible for faction mods to disable storytellers at their market's, but as far as I know no one has done that. What kinds of markets have you been checking? Were they all owned by the same modded faction?

It turns out it was bad luck.  I tried it on a new save and it worked fine.  I tried it on the Hegemony, Independents, and Neutrino Corp. (Corvus system)

I also noticed that 1.3.8 isn't working on my pre-existing save anymore.  I got one or two storyteller encounters after rolling back, but I have been experiencing the same issues with 1.3.9 now; haven't been seeing any bar encounters.

I tried 1.3.9 again on my current save, and I'm still getting the same issues as before: no "storytellers."
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 10:55:53 AM
After more testing, I confirmed that storyteller encounters do work, but they only show up the first time you've loaded a save after starting the game.  I tried finding more after loading the second time:  No dice.

They seem to work fine on a fresh save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2019, 11:42:17 AM
I still can't reproduce this issue... Here's what I tried:
Started a fresh save
Checked Jangala and Asharu for storytellers
Reloaded and checked Jangala and Asharu again (5 times)

Each time I checked Asharu had a storyteller but Jangala didn't. Am I trying to reproduce this incorrectly?
I don't know why another mod might interfere with storytellers, but it might be a mod compatibility issue. Could you attach your enabled_mods.json?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 02:36:15 PM
I still can't reproduce this issue... Here's what I tried:
Started a fresh save
Checked Jangala and Asharu for storytellers
Reloaded and checked Jangala and Asharu again (5 times)

Each time I checked Asharu had a storyteller but Jangala didn't. Am I trying to reproduce this incorrectly?
I don't know why another mod might interfere with storytellers, but it might be a mod compatibility issue. Could you attach your enabled_mods.json?

It sounds like you're trying to reproduce it correctly.

I am playing on a new save now, so I will let you know if I encounter any more problems.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
I've been playing on the new save for a while, and everything seems to be working fine.  There must've been something broken in my pre-update save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2019, 06:57:16 PM
Ok, cool. Thanks for updating me. I'm not sure what it could be, but I guess you must be right about something being wrong with your old save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on November 02, 2019, 03:32:28 AM
I had three storytellers, in three planets in the same system, tell me about the same person, using the same Siegfried dreadnought in the same system.

But in each of these, the special notable traits of the ship were different. Will go there and see if the game has spawned three fleets for me to kill.

Spoiler
(http://lpix.org/3573709/triple_story.jpg)
[close]

Update: Changed my plans and immediately ran over. Killed 1 fleet, and all the entries disappeared. Looked around the system, didn't seem to be any other fleets.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 03, 2019, 09:12:54 AM
Thanks for the report! I should be able to get these fixes into the next patch:
Quote
Fixed the possibility for multiple storyteller events to choose the same target fleet
Fixed famous flagship traits being based on the storyteller's market instead of the fleet commander
(edit: after looking at the code, it seems like this should already be the case. Not sure what's going wrong)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 05, 2019, 06:40:31 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.10 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed stat changes from NPC fleet trait not being reflected in the stats cards of enemy ships (both before and during battle)
Fixed NPC fleets having different traits during different play sessions
Fixed famous flagship intel "show on map" showing the exact location of the fleet instead of just the system
Fixed the possibility for multiple storyteller events to choose the same target fleet
Fixed another error that could sometimes close the bar dialog when viewed
Fixed the ability to save-scum storyteller events (the same event will now be generated every time after reloading)
Fixed storytellers telling "fanciful fabrications" (which means an invalid mission was generated) far too often in some cases
Changes for the Excelsior and Royco (script-heavy ships from Ship and Weapon Pack):
         Hull damage no longer counts against rating at all for these ships, unless they're disabled
         Flux related traits can no longer be received for these ships

I also added log entries that help explain why invalid missions ("fanciful fabrications") were generated for storyteller events. Ideally storytellers are always supposed to offer useful information, but in some saves, a combination of mods and/or other factors seems to throw a wrench in the mission generation process sometimes. So if you find any storytellers that are full of crap and want to help me get rid of them, please send me the last hundred or so lines of your starsector.log file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DornoDiosMio on November 06, 2019, 02:55:28 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.10 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed stat changes from NPC fleet trait not being reflected in the stats cards of enemy ships (both before and during battle)
Fixed NPC fleets having different traits during different play sessions
Fixed famous flagship intel "show on map" showing the exact location of the fleet instead of just the system
Fixed the possibility for multiple storyteller events to choose the same target fleet
Fixed another error that could sometimes close the bar dialog when viewed
Fixed the ability to save-scum storyteller events (the same event will now be generated every time after reloading)
Fixed storytellers telling "fanciful fabrications" (which means an invalid mission was generated) far too often in some cases
Changes for the Excelsior and Royco (script-heavy ships from Ship and Weapon Pack):
   Hull damage no longer counts against rating at all, unless the ship is disabled
   Flux related traits can no longer be received
/quote]

Are the flux related traits no longer possible to receive on any ship or just the two ships mentioned from the Ship & Weapons Pack? It seems like you are referring only to those 2 ships, but I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks for the mod and all the work you put into it. It's great!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 06, 2019, 05:58:17 PM
Are the flux related traits no longer possible to receive on any ship or just the two ships mentioned from the Ship & Weapons Pack? It seems like you are referring only to those 2 ships, but I just wanted to make sure.
Those two ships use flux in a very unconventional way, so it only applies to them. I can see why you might be unsure though. I'll edit the post to clarify.

Thanks for the mod and all the work you put into it. It's great!
Glad you like it  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SarenSoran on November 08, 2019, 07:24:48 AM
i've got a bug that tells me to notify you of it, no clue what this means tbh

if it helps you with the problem, i had this boi hunt some frigates via my second in command after i destroyed a pirate armada
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 08, 2019, 05:59:17 PM
Thanks for reporting this! Sorry for the trouble. Is there any chance I could get your save file along with your enabled_mods.json file? Someone else reported something similar and said the ID value was changing every time they re-opened the refit screen. Is that the case for you as well?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: validfrom on November 09, 2019, 08:05:52 PM
I've encountered the same problem and I've also noticed changing ID values when going into the refit screen. https://imgur.com/a/MxgwzNs I'm willing to share the campaign files but there's a size restriction to forum attachments. How would you prefer to receive the saves?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 09, 2019, 10:48:19 PM
Thanks validfrom! SarenSoran actually did get their files to me by transferring them via discord (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11488.msg195852#msg195852). If I can load up one save file affected by this issue then I should be able to pinpoint the cause, but if you want to send me your save and mod_info file as well it might come in handy (especially your mod_info file, as I suspect this might be a mod conflict). My discord handle is Sundog#3161
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 11, 2019, 06:38:11 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.11 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed reputation data being erased the first time a new game was saved, causing all kinds of trouble, including reputation hullmods displaying error messages
Fixed loyalty changes occurring for ships with no traits (and therefore no reputation hullmods)
Added "PrintStarshipLegendsData" console command, which prints starship legends data


This patch will prevent the broken reputation hullmods that some people have gotten. Unfortunately it won't restore lost traits, but affected ships will be able to earn new reputations properly. Pinpointing the cause of this issue was a very time consuming process, but it would've been nearly impossible without the bug reports and info I received thanks to psiklaw, validfrom, Avanitia, PNG1, SarenSoran, and Lesolan! Thanks all!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 13, 2019, 06:38:50 AM
So this is an odd one. I have a tonne of mods, and ruthless sector. And I have fiddled with your files a bit admittedly. However it seems that I can't reset reputations for ships that have loyalty towards an officer/captain. No matter how long I mothball them. It also seemed that it took more than (I set it to 15 from 10) 15 days for it to reset on a ship that had no loyalty. Even after resinstalling SSL and RS ships with loyalty dont seem to decrease.

It could be mod interference, it could be a result of my fiddling. I don't know for sure. But I just want to make sure that this is not an issue with the mod itself. And is there a way to reset it for ships from the save file or some such?

Edit: I also recall I initially mothballed them with their respective officers onboard.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 06:08:18 PM
Hey, thanks for the report. Starship legends logs events related to clearing traits. Could you tell me if you're seeing messages in starsector.log about the time remaining before ship's reputations are removed? They should happen every three days or so.

It also seemed that it took more than (I set it to 15 from 10) 15 days for it to reset on a ship that had no loyalty.
How many traits did that ship have? It takes X days per trait to remove a ship's reputation, so the only time it would take about 15 days in this case is if the ship only had one trait.

And is there a way to reset it for ships from the save file or some such?
Yeah, you can use "clearRep" with Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106) to remove a ship's reputation instantly. Enter "help clearRep" for instructions on specifying which ship or ships to select.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Phoenixheart on November 13, 2019, 06:14:07 PM
Just to get some clarification on clearing rep -

1. When mothballing a ship to clear rep, I assume you have to keep the ship in your fleet mothballed for this to work? It looks like when you store a mothballed ship it is no longer technically mothballed as far as the game is concerned.

2. For the X days per trait, are they removed all at once at the end of the total number of days, or are they removed one at a time as each X number of days pass?

3. Pretty sure I know the answer already, but does it store mothball progress, or is it reset if the ship is briefly un-moth'd and then re-mothballed?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 07:00:00 PM
1. When mothballing a ship to clear rep, I assume you have to keep the ship in your fleet mothballed for this to work? It looks like when you store a mothballed ship it is no longer technically mothballed as far as the game is concerned.
It should still work in storage, even if you mouse over the question mark and the CR meter fills up. Starship legends checks a list of all ships with reputations to see if they're mothballed, not just the ships in your fleet.

2. For the X days per trait, are they removed all at once at the end of the total number of days, or are they removed one at a time as each X number of days pass?
The entire reputation is removed once the required number of days has passed (or up to 3 days after that). This includes officer loyalties and combat rating.

3. Pretty sure I know the answer already, but does it store mothball progress, or is it reset if the ship is briefly un-moth'd and then re-mothballed?
The timer will reset, but it's only checked every three days, so if a ship is only un-mothballed briefly then starship legends might not "notice"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 13, 2019, 08:33:44 PM
Hey, thanks for the report. Starship legends logs events related to clearing traits. Could you tell me if you're seeing messages in starsector.log about the time remaining before ship's reputations are removed? They should happen every three days or so.

It also seemed that it took more than (I set it to 15 from 10) 15 days for it to reset on a ship that had no loyalty.
How many traits did that ship have? It takes X days per trait to remove a ship's reputation, so the only time it would take about 15 days in this case is if the ship only had one trait.

And is there a way to reset it for ships from the save file or some such?
Yeah, you can use "clearRep" with Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106) to remove a ship's reputation instantly. Enter "help clearRep" for instructions on specifying which ship or ships to select.

I'll take a look at the log in a bit. But afaik it took only about 30 days (which is the normal amount afaik from SSL, vs SSL RS) for the non-officer ship to lose it's 1 trait. The other ships between 3-4 traits each, and aren't even losing 1 trait after being mothballed for several months at a time (in storage or out).

Worst case I'll just clear rep em.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Ok, thanks for the details. I'll see if I can reproduce the issue using a ship that has loyalties. Feel free to send me your log if you like. I might end up needing it anyway.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 09:05:31 PM
@I_is_nublet: I just tested again with a ship that was openly insubordinate to its NPC captain and the reputation cleared in the expected timeframe. Are there any other factors you can think of that might be preventing it from working?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 13, 2019, 10:01:11 PM
I think I was saving and loading regularly.

6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_vesper 1dd22 has 67 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stormkestrel_proto 16625 has 67 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - wolf 1dd68 has 52 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - crig 2221e has 42 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - xlu_cobalt c2d79 has 67 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stoat 51e68 has 52 days left before its reputation is cleared.

Goes to about.

6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_vesper 1dd22 has 43 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stormkestrel_proto 16625 has 43 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - wolf 1dd68 has 28 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - crig 2221e has 18 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - xlu_cobalt c2d79 has 43 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stoat 51e68 has 28 days left before its reputation is cleared.

Then resets.

I would also point out that these are modded ships (not vanilla). So there is that to consider (and AFAIK they are not mods listed as part of your integration).

I need to make it a zip file. Sec.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1dc6s8nfk5lsae4/starsector.log.zip?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y5vxu9xrb3exoe6/starsector.zip?dl=0

As always, keep up the good work and we all appreciate what you do :)

And for clarification, the traits don't seem to be removed after mothballing for X amount of time. I am not sure about loyalty itself, I will look at it tomorrow at some point (12 hours or so) to make sure about that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 14, 2019, 08:27:16 AM
Alrighty, I looked ingame at their loyalty ratings, and tried mothballing them for around 90 days (in my fleet, not in storage) without saving or loading. (Ah, it seems I saved right before I started. Arg).

Their loyalty ratings have dropped from 20-30% increase to CR to 0. So that is dropping at least.

Now I'll try to see if the ratings drop when I have an officer in them while they are mothballed. And if that doesnt work, put them in storage and try.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 14, 2019, 09:07:39 AM
Ok, so 1 ship had loyalty (CR based) still, as the ship that officer was currently commissioned to had negative loyalty.

I put that one with the officer in it and mothballed it for > 90 days. No change.

I put the others into storage, after I mothballed them for half a day, for > 90 days. No change.

I put the one with loyalty into storage for > 90 days as well. No change.

I did however try the clearrep on 1 ship, and that did work  ;D

So, im guessing it's some kind of mod conflict if you can't recreate it (only thing I can think of is to have 1 officer have greater than 10% loyalty still in the mothballed ship, and then not have him change to another ship).

But I'll be ok now that I know how to clearrep. Not an ideal solution, but it IS a solution. :)

Thank you for your time and consideration, I appreciate it :)

Edit: these are raw files, unzipped (so much bigger). However I did not realize I overwrote the starsector.zip file before hand until I did so. So there is that. But just in case you want to go through them as well to see what is going on (if anything stands out).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxg8h6a6balljgl/starsector.log.1?dl=0

and

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ux3apf6icxlotxd/starsector.log?dl=0

Edit 2: i did all the testing without loading/saving this time round just FYI.

Edit 3: One thing I just realized it's listing 6 ships as mothballed in the log. I only have 5 in my fleet that im mothballing. Hm.

6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - crig 2221e has 18 days left before its reputation is cleared.

Is the only one I don't know what it is. The rest seem correct after checking with console to see where they are sold.

AHA! It's a salvage rig. I probably sold that while it was still mothballed. That is probably what is causing this whole thing to loop over and over!

Something so minor, I completely forgot I did it. I genuinely dont remember selling it, but if it's listed there as mothballed I probably sold it. I had no officer commissioned to it. Just straight up civie ship.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 14, 2019, 04:50:16 PM
Wow, thanks for all the investigative work! Looks like the timer for removing reputations is resetting at the beginning of each month, making it impossible for reputations that require more than 30 days to reset. Whenever I've tested this in the past I've always set "daysMothballedPerTraitToResetReputation" to 2 or 3, so I never noticed this problem. I should be able to get a patch out in a few days. Thanks again for all your help with this!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 14, 2019, 05:57:18 PM
Haha, no problem. I'm just glad to have been able to help. Even if the problem was something less complicated than I thought it was lol.

Keep up the awesome work!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 14, 2019, 11:40:11 PM
I've recently updated the Starship Legends version my game uses, but now I get a 'Please notify the author' message that just has 'null' instead of any useful information. After the first ~5-10 seconds of gameplay, it becomes a constant popup, to the point where the game is literally unplayable because as soon as I close the notice it pops up again.

The older version of Starship Legends, which worked fine a few days ago, did not do this. What can I do to help figure out what's going wrong?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 15, 2019, 06:46:23 AM
Thanks for reporting this, and sorry for the trouble! Do you know which version you updated from? Could you send me the log file at starsector-core/starsector.log or post the last hundred or so lines of it here? If you've changed the options file, could you send that as well?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 15, 2019, 09:56:26 AM
It doesn't seem to have a changelog, but I think it was 1.1.11.

29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: hegemony
29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: knights_of_ludd
29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: luddic_path
29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: tritachyon
29983 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 34
29983 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 35
30032 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 36
30032 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 37
30034 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 38
30034 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 39 - last
31756 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
31995 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
31996 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
36410 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 5.0 for market [Asher]
36743 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
36967 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Added trade fleet route from Volturn to Tibicena
36996 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
36996 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
37568 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 9.0 for market [Kazeron]
37578 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 9.0 for market [Cruor]
37614 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 5.0 for market [Cruor]
37658 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 6.0 for market [Sindria]
37665 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 6.0 for market [Nortia]
38997 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
38997 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
51553 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 8.0 for market [Sindria]
51800 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
51999 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
52678 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.AnalyzeEntityMissionIntel  - Created AnalyzeEntityMissionIntel: Domain-era Probe, faction: Luddic Church
53179 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.BaseLimitedFleetManager  - Spawned fleet [pirate raiders] at hyperloc Vector2f[-10600.0, -1200.0]
53454 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.RepChange.apply(RepChange.java:129)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.advance(CampaignScript.java:547)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

54804 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.RepChange.apply(RepChange.java:129)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.advance(CampaignScript.java:547)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

64525 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
65000 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
65000 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]

That's the last few, above that it's pretty much just loading standard Starsector stuff. I didn't change the Options file as far as I can remember.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 15, 2019, 10:02:08 AM
Quote
It doesn't seem to have a changelog, but I think it was 1.1.11.

The changelog should be in the modfile for SSL. File path should look like C:\Program Files (x86)\Fractal Softworks\Starsector\mods\Starship Legends and the changelog should be just a "text document" type file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 15, 2019, 11:30:57 AM
Yeah, I know. It doesn't have one. The more recent version does, but the old one doesn't. the Mod_info.json file lists it as 1.0, but I don't think it gets changed between versions.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 15, 2019, 12:38:01 PM
Yeah, I know. It doesn't have one. The more recent version does, but the old one doesn't. the Mod_info.json file lists it as 1.0, but I don't think it gets changed between versions.

Mine currently does

{
   "id":"sun_starship_legends",
   "name":"Starship Legends",
    "utility": "false",
   "author":"Sundog",
   "version":"1.3.11",
   "description":"Gives your ships and their crew personality as their reputations grow, granting traits that influence the ship's performance.",
    "gameVersion":"0.9.1a-RC8",
   "jars":["jars/StarshipLegends.jar"],
    "modPlugin":"starship_legends.ModPlugin",
}

Do you remember around when you last updated it? That might help a bit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 15, 2019, 06:12:30 PM
Yeah, I know. It doesn't have one. The more recent version does, but the old one doesn't. the Mod_info.json file lists it as 1.0, but I don't think it gets changed between versions.
I do change it between versions, and 1.0 should be the only version without a changelog, so it looks like the original version you were using was indeed 1.0. I do my best to make sure new versions are save compatible, but going from 1.0.0 to 1.3.11 is quite a leap, so I'm not surprised there was some trouble.

After looking at the code, it looks like the problem is caused by a reputation change being queued that later versions don't handle correctly, so sorry about that! I'll make sure this type of situation is handled more gracefully in the future.

For now, it should be possible to use new versions of starship legends if that reputation change is removed from the queue, which you can do by loading your game with starship legends 1.0 and waiting for all of the reputation change notifications to show up. Alternatively, you could set "removeAllDataAndFeatures" to true at the bottom of the options file, load up your game, save it, close starsector, and change the setting back to false. That should delete all starship legends data, including the problematic reputation change.

Again, sorry for the trouble, and thanks for bringing this issue to my attention. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 15, 2019, 07:20:11 PM
Thanks for figuring out the problem!
I've done what you said and it's all working now, thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 15, 2019, 07:35:09 PM
No problem! Glad it worked  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 18, 2019, 12:24:54 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.12 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed reputation resets never occuring if the required time to clear the ship's reputation exceded 30 days
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned
Fixed storyteller events breaking if the game was saved and reloaded between first seeing the event and accepting it
Fixed an error that could occur when updating from very old versions of starship legends
Fixed a few typos
Added new integration functionality meant to make it easy for mod authors to allow retrofitted ships to retain their reputations:
   starship_legends.Reputation.transferReputation(FleetMemberAPI from, FleetMemberAPI to)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 18, 2019, 01:26:01 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.12 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed reputation resets never occuring if the required time to clear the ship's reputation exceded 30 days
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned
Fixed storyteller events breaking if the game was saved and reloaded between first seeing the event and accepting it
Fixed an error that could occur when updating from very old versions of starship legends
Fixed a few typos
Added new integration functionality meant to make it easy for mod authors to allow retrofitted ships to retain their reputations:
   starship_legends.Reputation.transferReputation(FleetMemberAPI from, FleetMemberAPI to)

Nice! Grats on mod status!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: ASSIMKO on November 18, 2019, 02:46:11 PM


Congratulations, for the stars rocks and titles, sundog. :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 19, 2019, 05:27:52 PM
Thanks guys  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Buff Skeleton on November 20, 2019, 06:32:11 PM
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned

Excellent! Pretty sure this was what was going on in that post I made a while back. Damn, you've sure been busy -- I think I was on v1.3.8 or something at that time!

Thanks for putting so much thought into this mod; it's definitely one of the best additions to Starsector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 20, 2019, 07:01:09 PM
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned

Excellent! Pretty sure this was what was going on in that post I made a while back.
Yeah, I think you're right! In fact, it looks like I never replied to your bug report, which means I probably forgot to look into it. That's a shame. I probably could've fixed the issue three patches ago if I had paid more attention.

Damn, you've sure been busy
Yeah, true, unfortunately. When I set out to make this mod I wasn't planning for it to be so hard to maintain, and yet here we are 30 versions later ::)

Thanks for putting so much thought into this mod; it's definitely one of the best additions to Starsector.
;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: XpanD on November 21, 2019, 04:19:18 AM
Awesome mod, just finished a run using this. Adds a lot of flavor to your fleet! Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 21, 2019, 04:00:31 PM
Glad you enjoyed it  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 24, 2019, 10:38:22 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.13 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed new storyteller bar events temporarily not being created in some cases
Fixed some player ships having the effects of the enemy fleet's reputation during battle in some cases
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Valikdu on November 28, 2019, 11:06:44 AM
Question: what is it that causes an AI persona to become insubordinate and what can I do about it? (or is it random?)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 29, 2019, 06:52:32 AM
AI loyalty works exactly the same as crew loyalty, just with different flavor text. Basically, loyalty has a chance to get worse after a battle in which the ship does poorly, and it has a chance to improve if the ship does well. How well a ship does in battle is based on the rating it gets for a given battle. There are a lot of details about how it works in the "Frequent Questions" section of the original post.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: WASP103 on December 01, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Just noticed that when you win a fight but decide not to pursue/join pursuit, then the battle report ends up as a lost battle :/
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 01, 2019, 08:40:03 PM
Hey, thanks for letting me know! Is this for battles involving allied fleets? I just tried to reproduce this by fighting some pirates, allowing a kite to escape, and choosing "let them go," but it resulted in a victory.

Also, just so you know, whether the battle report shows victory or defeat doesn't really matter. It's just flavor text and it doesn't affect ratings or anything. Still, I would prefer for it to not to be wrong, so any further details you can provide would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: WASP103 on December 02, 2019, 03:27:20 AM
Hey, thanks for letting me know! Is this for battles involving allied fleets? I just tried to reproduce this by fighting some pirates, allowing a kite to escape, and choosing "let them go," but it resulted in a victory.

Also, just so you know, whether the battle report shows victory or defeat doesn't really matter. It's just flavor text and it doesn't affect ratings or anything. Still, I would prefer for it to not to be wrong, so any further details you can provide would be greatly appreciated!
Yep, I noticed it doesn't influence the ships' outcome. and I think it's together with an allied fleet when I decide to not join the pursuit.
Thanks for looking into it :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 02, 2019, 05:59:10 PM
Yep, I noticed it doesn't influence the ships' outcome. and I think it's together with an allied fleet when I decide to not join the pursuit.
Ok, good to know. I'll try to reproduce it that way once I get the chance.

Thanks for looking into it :)
No problem. And thanks again for the info. I'd never be able to find all these little bugs on my own.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 07:11:23 AM
My guess that loss of a few ships with Loyalty changes in more than one wipes other involved in recovery, but again - that's merely a guess.
Fought station, lost 3 (three) - on recovery only one got proper Loyalty change, other wiped to Indifferent. Traits were not affected.
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8qCRwZB/image.png)
[close]
/second is a full pic just for "non-edit" clearance/
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/NF99L68V/screenshot000.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 14, 2019, 09:25:11 AM
Hey, thanks for telling me about this! Let me make sure I understand what happened:
Correct? If so this is a bug.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
Yeah.
All crews were Fiercely Loyal, after combat only one reported change happened properly(Tempest Yanhui), and one reported to become Loyal changed instead to Indifferent (Hammerhead Jiayi), and one w/o report of any kind of Loyalty change become Indifferent (Tempest Zhenshang).
Maybe it should be mentioned that I have increased amount of officers, for increased amount of ships in fleet(s), which in turn for increased battlesize. 20 max IIRC, but only 18 commands ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 14, 2019, 10:34:54 AM
Ah, ok. Thanks for the details. Let me see if I can figure out what went wrong. Did you change any starship legends options?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 10:43:16 AM
Did you change any starship legends options?
Nope.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
There is another thing I've got outta nowhere (am I lucky, innit?)

Bounty (vanilla one, I don't have IBB/Vayra mods) spawned, then got info about it from bar storyteller - clicking on "Personal bounty" info after I've looked into flagship details on Intelligence screen leads to crash.
I've clicked on that info when it just spawned, before storyteller brought details, game been cool with it.

Intelligence screen shot
(https://i.ibb.co/x3C0hz6/screenshot012.png)
[close]

NullPointerException
[Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.String.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.addIconFor(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.addShipList(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.PersonBountyIntel.createSmallDescripti on(PersonBountyIntel.java:927)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.return.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.String.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

...and repeats, ye, it's guaranteed -

scientific repeat
[Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.String.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.addIconFor(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.addShipList(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.PersonBountyIntel.createSmallDescripti on(PersonBountyIntel.java:927)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.return.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.String.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

i'll f***ing do it again.txt
[Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.String.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.addIconFor(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.addShipList(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.PersonBountyIntel.createSmallDescripti on(PersonBountyIntel.java:927)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.return.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.String.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

**Bad news**
I've tried to kill it anyway, and game crashed immediately when that fleet blimped on radar
And I don't have save before getting flagship info to check if bounty isn't broken itself.  :(

Surprise to be sure, and not welcome one
162405 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.getSizeWithModules(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.createItemView(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.createItemView(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.util.CollectionView.sync(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleet.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: xucthclu on December 14, 2019, 03:15:27 PM
Decent mod, however, could you tell me what determines the traits that logistics ship end up getting? My logistics ships keep getting mostly negative traits through exploration and surveys, and you never seemed to explain what determines the percentage of good vs bad traits on logistics ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 14, 2019, 04:48:41 PM
@Kulverstukass: One of the ships in that bounty fleet is broken somehow. It probably has a weapon or hullmod that's not configured properly, which is causing the game to crash. This problem didn't exist before you talked to that storyteller because until then none of the ships in the fleet had any weapons or hullmods (the game doesn't add those until necessary, and starship legends forced it to add them so it could display the flagship's details). I'm fairly certain the problem wasn't caused by starship legends, but I can't completely rule out the possibility, so if you want to send me your save file and enabled_mods.json file I'll take a look. I can't make any promises though. This kind of problem can be difficult to figure out.

Decent mod, however, could you tell me what determines the traits that logistics ship end up getting? My logistics ships keep getting mostly negative traits through exploration and surveys, and you never seemed to explain what determines the percentage of good vs bad traits on logistics ships.
Yeah, I need to explain that and a few other things on the first page of this thread. Anyway, it's completely random. By default there's a 50% chance for civilian ships to get a negative trait. You can adjust the chance by changing "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" in the options file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 11:59:20 PM
@Kulverstukass: One of the ships in that bounty fleet is broken somehow. It probably has a weapon or hullmod that's not configured properly, which is causing the game to crash. This problem didn't exist before you talked to that storyteller because until then none of the ships in the fleet had any weapons or hullmods (the game doesn't add those until necessary, and starship legends forced it to add them so it could display the flagship's details). I'm fairly certain the problem wasn't caused by starship legends, but I can't completely rule out the possibility, so if you want to send me your save file and enabled_mods.json file I'll take a look. I can't make any promises though. This kind of problem can be difficult to figure out.
If you insist  ::)
https://www92.zippyshare.com/v/ZsaM8YsW/file.html
enabled mods
{"enabledMods": [
  "automatic-orders",
  "lw_autosave",
  "timid_admins",
  "NeutrinoDetector",
  "Boggled Terraforming",
  "chatter",
  "lw_radar",
  "lw_console",
  "edshipyard",
  "gates_awakened",
  "ZGrand Sector",
  "Imperium",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "leadingPip",
  "MagicLib",
  "SCY",
  "bonomel_skilledup",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "Boggled Station Construction",
  "tahlan",
  "THI",
  "transfer_all_items",
  "ungp",
  "lw_version_checker",
  "shaderLib"
]}
[close]
It's getting very kind of you  :)
and screenshot of mods folder for simplier mod names (and Logistics Notifications aren't on) AND "gates awakened" are 1.3.1 if needed.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 16, 2019, 05:31:37 PM
Ok, so I took a look at your save file and found out the flagship of the bounty is a ship with modules (like a station). I still can't be certain, but that makes it much more likely that the crashes you experienced were caused by starship legends. It looks like NPC fleets containing ships with modules that have SL reputation hullmods can cause these kinds of issues. The only time that should ever happen is if a ship with modules is chosen as a famous flagship by a storyteller event. Unfortunately, I can't fix the underlying issue without changing some fundamental things about how the mod works, so for now I'll just have to make sure ships with modules are never chosen as famous flagships by the storyteller event. Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. I should be able to get a patch out in the next day or two.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 17, 2019, 02:10:52 PM
A bug I encountered: If you select a ship for deployment in battle, then cancel that selection, the post-battle report will still consider that ship to have been deployed, including reputation changes.

Example screenshot:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/jAjwQ5u.png)
[close]
In this battle, only the Tempest and Conquest were deployed. But before the battle I accidentally clicked Deploy All, and had to un-select all my ships to deploy only the two. As you can see, these ships were all still considered deployed, with 0% damage inflicted/taken, and several got rep changes.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 17, 2019, 05:17:19 PM
Thanks for the report! I'm having a hard time reproducing the issue. Can you think of any other factor that might be needed to cause this to happen? Can you reproduce the issue reliably? Do you think any of the mods you're using might interfere with deployment selections somehow? I thought ruthless sector might be involved, but I can't reproduce the issue with or without it.

Actually, after taking another look at your screenshot, it looks like your Punisher and Corocotta weren't deployed. As combat ships, I would expect them to have been selected for deployment when you clicked the all button. Did this battle have multiple engagements by any chance? Starship legends will count a ship as deployed if it participates in any engagement of a battle (including pursuits), and will only generate one battle report no matter how many engagements there were for a battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 17, 2019, 06:42:10 PM
I will attempt to reproduce this some more times. I am using Ruthless Sector. Actually let me dump the list:
Spoiler
  "lw_autosave",
  "COPS",
  "lw_console",
  "edshipyard",
  "interestingportraitspack",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "MagicLib",
  "nexerelin",
  "sun_ruthless_sector",
  "SCY",
  "shadow_ships",
  "swp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "tahlan",
  "THI",
  "underworld",
  "vayrasector",
  "vayrashippack",
  "shaderLib"
[close]

Actually, after taking another look at your screenshot, it looks like your Punisher and Corocotta weren't deployed. As combat ships, I would expect them to have been selected for deployment when you clicked the all button.
I'm pretty sure that was purely an effect of my small battle size, they were not far up enough on the list and were cut off by the DP limit. It was not a multiple engagement battle.

Edit: I realized my Ruthless Sector is an older version (1.2.2), that could be the problem.

Edit2: No, on review what probably happened is I did send the fleet into pursuit auto-resolve, and forgot about it. I will attempt to reproduce it one more time, but this is probably not a bug, just my mistake.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 17, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Ah, ok. Well I guess I won't worry about it then. Please let me know if you do manage to reproduce something like that though.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 18, 2019, 02:25:01 AM
Ok, so I took a look at your save file and found out the flagship of the bounty is a ship with modules (like a station). Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. I should be able to get a patch out in the next day or two.
Thank you very much for your work, with this issue and mod in general!
In the time being I'm gonna abstain from asking storytellers about SCY bounties flagships, as both of their capital warships are modular.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 22, 2019, 05:36:51 AM
Okay, here's a bug for real this time. Twice I have gotten a popup saying "Starship Legends error, let the mod author know." The code given was "null."

In both circumstances, I had module ships in my fleet (I know they have caused problems in this mod before). Both times the error was triggered in the overworld - I'm guessing it was one of the triggers to give logistics ships a reputation change, but I'm not sure. The first time happened right after adding a ship with console commands, and the second time happened right after a save. Both times, the module ships I had were added with console commands, in case that matters.

Edit: It happened twice more, under the same circumstances (right after a save both times).

Edit2: The key factor seems to be the console-spawning, not the modules. I was able to reproduce the error with the following steps:
- Spawn a ship with console command
- Save with f5
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 22, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
Well that's a real shame.
The only way for me to fix the issues with modular ships (short of risky hacks) is to remove support for trait bonuses propagating to modules. By the looks of it, that's what I'll have to do, but I want to look into other options first.

For the moment, I'll add a warning to the OP about these issues.

Anyway, thanks for the report. It's not good news, but at least I know now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 22, 2019, 11:08:29 AM
Edit2: The key factor seems to be the console-spawning, not the modules. I was able to reproduce the error with the following steps:
- Spawn a ship with console command
- Save with f5
Hmm... I think there must be something more going on. I just spawned a Nemealion, Cathedral, and Basalisk with console commands, saving between each spawn, and didn't have any issues. Adding traits to them prior to saving didn't cause any problems either. What ship did you spawn? What kind of errors are you getting? Do you use setHullVariantId at all for any KT ships?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 22, 2019, 07:25:54 PM
I'm away from the computer, so I can't test or confirm anything at the moment, but here's everything I can think that I was doing in my games that caused problems.

I'm currently testing a Vayra bounty, and it is a module ship. However, the errors appeared before the bounty did.

Each time I spawned ships, I also added supplies, fuel, and crew, and repaired.

The first two times I got the error, I had spawned a couple Basilisks. Then, in a completely new save, I spawned only two Atlas, and the aforementioned supplies etc, before saving. And I got the same error. I repeated this twice in two new games.

The error was a popup, saying "Starship Legends has encountered an error, please let the mod author know." Below that was simply the word "null."

I can't recall using SetHullVariantId in any code I've written.

So, maybe it's a problem with my Vayra bounty? I will try disabling it and see if that helps.

EDIT: Okay, I've been testing. It's definitely something in the KT mod. I started by removing the Vayra bounty, then everything else I added over the past couple days. The error persists. Here's what it looks like for the record:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/l4RU8bR.png)
[close]
and it appears as soon as I quicksave, right after starting a fresh game.

The last release version of KT seems to work fine with SL, so I suppose I'll start with that and add things back in until I get the error.

EDIT2: Okay, I give up. I've tried re-implementing everything I had added to my draft mod into my released mod. No error, SL works just fine. So I have no clue what could have gone wrong.
I guess it means there's no problem - and sorry for the wild goose chase. Very strange overall. I'll be back if I start seeing these errors again.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 22, 2019, 10:06:24 PM
The error was a popup, saying "Starship Legends has encountered an error, please let the mod author know." Below that was simply the word "null."
Sorry, I should have clarified. When a message like that pops up it logs the stack trace to starsector.log, just as if there had been a full crash.

The last release version of KT seems to work fine with SL, so I suppose I'll start with that and add things back in until I get the error.

EDIT2: Okay, I give up. I've tried re-implementing everything I had added to my draft mod into my released mod. No error, SL works just fine. So I have no clue what could have gone wrong.
I guess it means there's no problem - and sorry for the wild goose chase. Very strange overall. I'll be back if I start seeing these errors again.
Well, that is very disconcerting, but at least there doesn't seem to be a released incompatibility. Please do let me know if you find out anything more about what the cause might have been. That seems like a mystery worth solving.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 22, 2019, 10:31:14 PM
I'm trying to post this log, but the forum isn't even letting me post it. Curiouser. I'm going to try to PM it to you.

EDIT: PM doen't work either. let me try pastebin.

https://pastebin.com/bDRKdtRx

Okay, there it is...looks module related indeed. I hope it sheds some light on something - no idea what's wrong with the forum today.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: xucthclu on December 24, 2019, 02:50:15 AM
A ship I'm playing with seems to be stuck at famous rep levels, even though I pilot it in almost every engagement, whereas some newer ships seem to be all the way up to legendary. Why could that be?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 24, 2019, 04:00:59 PM
My guess would be bad RNG, but there's always the possibility it could be something else. The chance to get a new trait is based on the amount of xp earned in a battle. By default it takes five times as much xp to guarantee a new legendary trait than a famous one, so it can be a bit of a crapshoot at that tier even if you're fighting huge battles.

If you suspect a bug, you could drastically reduce the xp requirement in the settings, like this:

Quote
   "legendary":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":100,
      "effectMult":8,
   },
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 27, 2019, 12:47:36 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.14 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Removed the possibility for ships with modules to be chosen as famous flagships or derelicts, as this could lead to crashes (this won't be necessary with the next version of Starsector)
Fixed loyalties being reset in many circumstances.
Fixed a problem that increased the number of storytellers that tell "fanciful fabrications"
Added Escape as a hotkey for all "leave" options related to storyteller events
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Histidine on January 02, 2020, 06:28:56 AM
Bug: My Excelsior didn't have hull damage registered or lose rating when disabled but then recovered.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 02, 2020, 12:55:50 PM
Thanks for the report! Sorry about that. I'll make sure to fix it for the next release.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Schwartz on January 05, 2020, 01:58:47 PM
The 'no hull tamage taken' bug is still floating around. I've had it happen several times that the whole fleet shows 0% damage taken where I know some ships took hull damage.

I set "bonusChanceForCivilianShips":0, and "bonusChanceForReservedShipsMult":0, but campaign XP still gives my civilian ships traits. Can I disable this part?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Astyanax on January 05, 2020, 05:20:51 PM
Hi Sundog, I'm absolutely loving this gem of a mod. Thanks for sharing it!

One question, though. My support ships (tankers, salvage rigs) tend to get notable reputation changes very easily, even if never deployed in battle. I tend to see a reputation change perhaps every other battle/salvage event. Is this normal?  I'm playing with an Industry-specced captain.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 05, 2020, 06:32:16 PM
The 'no hull tamage taken' bug is still floating around. I've had it happen several times that the whole fleet shows 0% damage taken where I know some ships took hull damage.
Well that's a shame. Thanks for letting me know. Any idea how to reproduce it? How often does it happen?

I set "bonusChanceForCivilianShips":0, and "bonusChanceForReservedShipsMult":0, but campaign XP still gives my civilian ships traits. Can I disable this part?
You'll want to set "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips" to 0 for that. Bonus chances are the chance to get good traits as opposed to bad ones.

Hi Sundog, I'm absolutely loving this gem of a mod. Thanks for sharing it!
Glad you like it!  ;D

One question, though. My support ships (tankers, salvage rigs) tend to get notable reputation changes very easily, even if never deployed in battle. I tend to see a reputation change perhaps every other battle/salvage event. Is this normal?  I'm playing with an Industry-specced captain.
It's normal if you're steadily earning XP outside of battle. Civilian support ships earn new traits based on non-battle XP now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Schwartz on January 06, 2020, 07:53:06 AM
I'll keep an eye out for which kinds of engagements still cause this.

Oh duh, it says it right there in the config file!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ramdat on January 06, 2020, 12:24:23 PM
In the FAQ it says that mothballing a ship removes the traits. Will putting a ship in colony storage also remove the traits?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: BringerofBabies on January 06, 2020, 12:50:45 PM
In the FAQ it says that mothballing a ship removes the traits. Will putting a ship in colony storage also remove the traits?

Only if it is mothballed before storage.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 06, 2020, 02:59:49 PM
I'll keep an eye out for which kinds of engagements still cause this.
Thanks! In the meantime I'll take a look at the code and see if I can find anything wrong.

In the FAQ it says that mothballing a ship removes the traits. Will putting a ship in colony storage also remove the traits?

Only if it is mothballed before storage.
Yup! Updated the FAQs to clarify this.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on January 07, 2020, 08:10:26 AM
Hi,
came back to check out your mod few months later and I gotta say - I love it. Previously I had to alter settings to make it work with my tastes, now it works great right out of the box :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Phoenixheart on January 07, 2020, 03:28:01 PM
Just to clarify, when a mothballed ship loses its traits it ALSO loses it's reputation level, right? So a legendary ship getting mothballed will reset it and have to climb up through the ranks again?

I ask because it makes sense but is not what I originally expected when I read the FAQ, I was thinking that it would remove the traits but keep the level, so you could basically reroll for different traits at the cost of not getting to keep any of the originals, so a few meh traits would be worth keeping if you also had one you really wanted.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 07, 2020, 06:45:12 PM
Hi,
came back to check out your mod few months later and I gotta say - I love it. Previously I had to alter settings to make it work with my tastes, now it works great right out of the box :D
Glad to hear it  ;D

Just to clarify, when a mothballed ship loses its traits it ALSO loses it's reputation level, right? So a legendary ship getting mothballed will reset it and have to climb up through the ranks again?
Yes, that's right.

I ask because it makes sense but is not what I originally expected when I read the FAQ, I was thinking that it would remove the traits but keep the level, so you could basically reroll for different traits at the cost of not getting to keep any of the originals, so a few meh traits would be worth keeping if you also had one you really wanted.
That's a good point. Thanks for pointing it out! I'll update the FAQs to make it clear.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ramdat on January 08, 2020, 03:50:10 PM
Would you consider adding a config option to allow choosing which traits you receive upon level up? So then you could, for example, choose shield-related traits for your shield-tanking ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Phoenixheart on January 08, 2020, 04:23:44 PM
I'm not sure if it's feasable to code, but that's actually an interesting idea, if your ships had a similar level up mechanic to officers, where you're given 2 random trait options and you pick one of them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 09, 2020, 04:36:37 PM
Well, technically you can choose traits using console commands, but I know that's not what you guys are asking for. I don't have any plans to create a proper system for choosing traits, and that's not likely to ever change. The mechanics, theme, and interface of this mod are all designed around traits being randomized, so changing that would mean changing most of the rest of the mod as well. Also, the next version of starsector will have something very similar to choosable traits in the form of permanent hullmods (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2019/07/08/skills-and-story-points/), so I don't want to create too much overlap.

You guys might want to check out  Extra System Reloaded (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13089.0), which also provides a system for upgrading ships, but without any RNG.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Panpiper on January 14, 2020, 09:52:39 AM
I've been playing with this mod for at least twelve hours in game. I have fought countless battles. My officers are around level 15 (new game). Not one of them, not a single ship has achieved any sort of trait at all, save a solitary civilian ship getting a loyal crew. (My main character is a non-combat leader, to start anyway, with hired officers flying the ships.)

What do I need to change in the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini to accelerate these bonuses?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on January 14, 2020, 03:34:06 PM
Hey Sundog, some bad news. It seems there's a crash that's been happening with regards to traits being added to module ships - but only under specific circumstances. Namely:

- The ship has clickable (in refit screen) modules.
- The ship was spawned as a starter ship (such as the super-ship start in Nex). Module ships acquired any other way appear to be fine.

To replicate the crash, start a new game with a refittable-module super ship in Nexerelin - Kingdom of Terra works, as does Luddic Church's Cathedral (SWP). Add a trait to the ship with console commands, then click on any module in the refit screen.

There's a record of the testing process here, (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16902.msg277788#msg277788) if any of that info is useful.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 14, 2020, 08:47:41 PM
Not one of them, not a single ship has achieved any sort of trait at all, save a solitary civilian ship getting a loyal crew.
The first few traits should be very easy to get, so it sounds like something is going wrong. By now you've probably fought at least a few battles that would grant enough XP to guarantee new traits. Did you change any settings by any chance? Are you using any mods that modify XP gain in any way?

What do I need to change in the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini to accelerate these bonuses?
Normally you could reduce the "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait" value for each tier, but I suspect that won't work in your case, since you should've gotten new traits with the defaults by now.

Hey Sundog, some bad news. It seems there's a crash that's been happening with regards to traits being added to module ships - but only under specific circumstances.
Hmm... that is bad news. Thanks for letting me know. It's very strange that it only occurs for starter module ships. Hopefully I'll be able to fix this once I figure out what the difference is. Anyway, thanks for the solid repro steps!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Panpiper on January 15, 2020, 03:01:41 AM
Not one of them, not a single ship has achieved any sort of trait at all, save a solitary civilian ship getting a loyal crew.
The first few traits should be very easy to get, so it sounds like something is going wrong. By now you've probably fought at least a few battles that would grant enough XP to guarantee new traits. Did you change any settings by any chance? Are you using any mods that modify XP gain in any way?

As far as I recall, the only changes I made to the ini are the changes you suggested for making the traits just the positive ones. I an not certain I did not change anything else though. I 'was' running a mod to expand the level ceiling. I am going to restart without that and see. I'll also redownload your mod just in case I broke something the first time.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Well, I tested with the "unlimited power" preset and everything still seemed to work fine. I don't think a mod that increases the level ceiling would make a difference unless it changes how xp is earned somehow as well. Not sure what the problem could be.
Have your ships started getting traits since you re-installed the mod?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Coward on January 28, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
Will there be additional traits added in the future? I'd love to see traits that affect weapon flux cost, projectile speed, and fire rate
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 28, 2020, 04:48:03 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum!

The only traits I currently have plans to add are ones that affect ship systems (cooldown, flux cost, or recharge rate - whichever is most applicable). That will have to wait until the next release of Starsector though, as it doesn't fully support what I want to do yet. It might not work out though, as complications with something like that are likely.

I try to avoid adding traits that have too much overlap with each other, so I think +/-fire-rate would be too similar to +/-damage, and +/-flux-cost  might be too similar to +/-flux-dissipation. No traits currently affect projectile speed though, so there will probably be a trait that affects that some day.

I've been considering adding traits that only affect specific weapon types (ammo recharge rate? energy weapon flux cost? beam damage? ballistics projectile speed?), but I'm not sure it's a good idea yet. Missiles already get special treatment, so it only seems fair...

Another idea I liked that someone brought up a while ago is a trait that provides some sort of bonus that increases with the number of d-mods a ship has, but I haven't ironed out the details for making that work well yet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Coward on January 28, 2020, 06:13:53 PM
That sounds really interesting, I look forward to seeing these traits in action! This is one of my favorite mods for Starsector so far, I've been using since I've discovered it and haven't turned it off since.

I kinda feel like fire rate could still be interesting, but I don't know if changes in fire rate change flux costs. Missiles do have the reload modifiers already, and I feel like if fire rate traits also cause average flux costs to increase/decrease, it would more interesting than a simple damage modifier. Then again, I don't know if fire rate or projectile speed would affect beam weapons, so that's something that the damage trait is more useful for. I don't know, I just want to see how fast I can get a Hammerhead with all mortars to fire.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 28, 2020, 08:52:25 PM
This is one of my favorite mods for Starsector so far, I've been using since I've discovered it and haven't turned it off since.
;D

I feel like if fire rate traits also cause average flux costs to increase/decrease, it would more interesting than a simple damage modifier.
Right, the change in flux usage would set a fire-rate trait apart from deadly/harmless, but they'd still be too similar imo. However, if I decide to make weapon type specific traits I think a trait that does +/- fire rate for ballistic weapons could work well. I think the increased flux usage from higher fire rate could lead to some interesting builds and strategies.

I don't know, I just want to see how fast I can get a Hammerhead with all mortars to fire.
Ha! Fair enough  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zuthen on February 08, 2020, 02:39:42 PM
loving this mod sundog, thank you so much for making it. it works perfectly for me so far and i love it's implementation. also love that i can see at a glance what level my units are at. makes deciding who to bring a much more meaningful task as well. generally i find myself thinking much more about who i want to bring with me in a mission rather than just selecting my most powerful forces. now if i have units already at top rank i generally decide to bring other forces just to level them up more. really i don't think there is anything you could do to make it better. the only thing i could think of is to make even more levels/ranks to further add to it, especially with mods like nex as exp comes very easy in those mods. i would say you could also make the ai use the same system as you instead of them having their whole army change stats instead of single units but then it would be more random and the ai wouldn't have as much of a benefit. thanks again, you might see me in a year or two after this play through. lol
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 08, 2020, 05:29:42 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum and thanks for the kind words and feedback! I'm glad you're enjoying the mod  ;D