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Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Argonaut on November 23, 2018, 04:08:51 PM

Title: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Argonaut on November 23, 2018, 04:08:51 PM
I remember the early game being hard. It can still be too hard for newbies, no doubt, but the jump from beginner in a wolf to armada overlord is too fast nonetheless. I happen to like the early-mid game the most. The game has all the mechanics to allow me to play a single ship trader with a few kites or a centurion for defense, but i soon become too rich for that. And to add insult to injury the Spacer option is hidden, despite being perfectly viable. It takes 10 minutes to fly to a random derelict in the generous starting range and scan for 30k, scoop some salvage and be on track to that armada, debt notwithstanding. Hardly a "very hard" option after a playthrough or two, but it gave 20 minutes of extra enjoyment before the spiral.

The game seems to want me to burn through ships every encounter, but it's very easy to pick your fights and not lose anything. The real difficulty is not overreaching your battle potential. Why should i bother being a small trader with my escorts if after a single mission i'm set to double my fleet? A guy with a truck making enough money to buy himself a second truck and starting his own trucking company from taking a 10 minute trip to examine some other vehicle is a bit excessive. I get that all gameplay should be accessible at the beginning, but there is no reason scaling up should be so fast. It's enough to give starting options for different "professions" while decreasing rewards to create hours of fresh gameplay. (Maybe a "hard" mode? Ironman doesn't cut it still). Otherwise it's trivial to end up bored and overpowered without a chance to experience half the content, even on early playthroughs.

I won't even mention colonization because i already did in another thread, but it's the same fare. Don't get me wrong, i love the game and the work done on it is fantastic, but it's not letting me play it. I want to care for my own ship like a lifeline like that beginner's wolf for longer. See each kite officer become a veteran on the ship. Relish every bullet dodged. Agonize over every trashed escort.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Alex on November 23, 2018, 04:17:01 PM
It's definitely too fast right now. I don't want it to be very slow, either; still finding the right balance. I think given the Galatian Stipend, it's probably ok to tone down some early/mid-game rewards, as those were mostly set up before that was a thing. Going to look at it at some point; it's safe to expect some possibly sweeping changes in this from release to release.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: megalon on November 23, 2018, 04:18:38 PM
I think this question could be a bit tough to answer accurately for many players (perhaps as yourself) who've been playing this game for a long time. The game is certainly easy if you know all the mechanics in and out.

For a brand new player to the game could certainly see it being way harder, using your example re fleet encounters,  they don't know what you know as you describe in paragraph two.  

That being said, I think the difficulty, overall, is really good.  Being such an open ended sandbox game, you can sort of opt to make the game as easy as you like (through exploiting easy or low risk money making ventures) or as hard as you like (limiting yourself to one ship and trying to solo stuff or any other of the many ways).  

I think just bunch of small tweaks are needed, like toning down planet incomes and other balancing, but overall the difficulty feels really good to me, not too tough not too easy.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 23, 2018, 06:01:10 PM
I took me about a week to get to endgame, and I do not have the time to play like I did decades ago.  I appreciate the semi-fast pace this game has.  I still have yet to invade core worlds for blueprints.  Now, I have explored about half the sector for the best planet, and I have not yet made it to the red planet that has taunted me from the very beginning, and I am slowly building a chain of waystations toward that red planet which no doubt has that planet shield item I read about.  Red planet in my game is at the very upper right corner of the whole sector.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Schwartz on November 23, 2018, 07:48:00 PM
I'm not finding it easy. I found the early game more manageable because you're not constantly scraping to break even money-wise, which is good. The combat side of the early game has lost none of its bite. But yes, every bit of money translates into getting out of the early game murk that much faster. I found the mid game to be weird, in that there was none for me. Bounties advanced from an easy 50k for a small fleet to 200k for one with capitals and 4x my fleet size. I never really arrived in mid game but sailed straight through to the end with money in the bank and my first colony therefore funded well right off the bat.

Overall I'd say the pacing is better in this version, but it can be improved. Levelling happens too fast compared to fleet power, and some variables scale with level(?)

Rewards for trade and exploration are okay. They're less generous than bounties, and you have to take fuel and time spent into account. I didn't do these much until I was well on the way, by which point 50k for a trade run was another drop in the bucket. I could imagine doing these early on to be an easy way to make bank.


What the game could use is a more noticeable mid game by way of a slower XP progression overall. A slight tightening of monetary rewards, including the starter stipend. More medium-strength bounties. An increase in makeshift pirate base strength as the player progresses. Luddic Path is plenty strong even early game, and I assume that's intended.

And since core worlds have such a hard time breaking even, I find it strange that the player can get filthy rich off colonies. I could see faction taxes being interesting, as both a way to keep their military at bay and reduce player income.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Cik on November 23, 2018, 08:43:17 PM
i saw the same thing re the bounties.

first round ~40k
next round 50-60k
round 3: 150+k

game pls
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Dexy on November 23, 2018, 09:45:44 PM
The difficulty depends on how you decide to earn money and how easily you can escape from a superior fleet.

Selling drugs, organs, armaments to pirate stations is easy money with low risk using fast frigate haulers.

Exploration missions are similarly easy money with a little higher risk, if limiting yourself to fast ships.

Once you have any ships in the fleet that can't escape from fast frigates, the difficult suddenly jumps up.

So I would say that the rewards are poorly balanced, and there is too little incentive / too high risk in using slow ships if fast frigates can get the job done.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Deshara on November 23, 2018, 09:45:50 PM
And since core worlds have such a hard time breaking even, I find it strange that the player can get filthy rich off colonies. I could see faction taxes being interesting, as both a way to keep their military at bay and reduce player income.

isn't that what expeditions are?
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: DaLagga on November 23, 2018, 09:51:53 PM
i saw the same thing re the bounties.

first round ~40k
next round 50-60k
round 3: 150+k

game pls

Yeah, I second this.  I agree that the early-mid game needs to slow down a bit in terms of how quickly the player can build up, but in the current version pirate bounties tend to FAR out-scale the player no matter what you do.  In version .8 I had no trouble keeping up with the bounties and could subsist on them for pretty much the entirety of my income if I wanted.  But something is out of wack with the scaling in .9 where we go from 50k bounties consisting of a couple of destroyers and a few frigates with tons of D-mods to 150k battle fleets with several cruisers, half a dozen or more destroyers and a ton of frigates with maybe 1 D-mod each on average.  The giant leap came out of nowhere and only about an hour into the game (for me anyway) which meant that I basically had to ignore bounties until I had a fleet that was actually capable of handling them because the 50k bounties all but dried up when the game decided to load the next tier. 
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Schwartz on November 23, 2018, 10:32:19 PM
And since core worlds have such a hard time breaking even, I find it strange that the player can get filthy rich off colonies. I could see faction taxes being interesting, as both a way to keep their military at bay and reduce player income.

isn't that what expeditions are?

Yes, I meant an outright demand for taxes as a percentage of your earnings, rather than the player having to do political maneuverings with costs that increase with every iteration (as it is with AI core fleets, anyway). A peaceful option with costs that keep increasing is something you do once or twice, it's not a long-term peaceful solution.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Truthowl on November 23, 2018, 10:54:59 PM
WOW, I must really really suck at this game. I don't find it easy at all. lol

But as to the issue of early-mid game bounties. I rarely, and I mean rarely, see bounties under 150k and those fleets are over 2 times stronger than me. They usually wipe me when I still haven't taken out even half of theirs. I wish I could find some 50-100k bounties.

As for colonies, how the hell are you all getting rich off of them? lol I mean, at one point I seen my expected income go up to about 60-70k. I got 1 month of that and used the money to build a tech mining structure. Then the Persean League came and jacked me up because of the tech miner and I was suddenly running in the red. Running several system bounties where you get 1400 per frigate allowed me to build a few more structures. But the upkeep was killing me. I noticed I could use cores in my buildings and that has helped, a lot actually. But I can't seem to find any more beta cores(for the 50% markdown of upkeep). Now I have pirates, the perseans, the ludic path and one other hitting my colony. ROFLMAO(<--hysteria)... Anyways, my colony is NOT making me any money. I'm sitting at about -10k per month right now. So how are you getting rich? I cannot fight off the fleets they at me. They appear to be about the same level as 170k bounties and I seem to be stuck with frigates. Otherwise I cant outrun the fleets out to get me.

I'm thinking I need to build another colony but avoid building the things these guys are hitting hard. Thats the refinery and tech miners as far as I can tell so far.

I do have a few ships better than frigates. But they're in storage at my colony, because I can't afford the fuel and supplies to use them all the time.

Anyway, @Dev please be gentle with the Balancing... lol
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Schwartz on November 23, 2018, 10:59:00 PM
Skills, beta+ AI cores and a low enough hazard rating help a lot. My first colony is on 175% hazard and it always made a profit, but I invested heavily up-front. I wouldn't pick a hazard rating higher than that unless it was just loaded with goodies.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Eji1700 on November 24, 2018, 12:31:12 AM
The game certainly has inconsistent pacing, some of it comes from inherent problems in any genre where you get powerful over time.

For example the early game is, almost by definition, the hardest part.  No matter how easy the start you pick, the game will almost always get easier from there as you acquire more resources and fleets, and if it doesn't, well it ends because you screwed up (or you just reload a save).  Worse as it is right now the early game feels like a very heavy knowledge test, where the first few times you play it's just insanely hard as there's a lot to learn, but once you get it it's not that hard to abuse something to basically skip it.

Even if the pacing is slowed down (so each phase of the game feels more meaningful, rather than going from scraping by to planetary warlord) mid and end game can still certainly be an issue. 

There's a few ways to add difficulty to a game like this:

1. Things like the spacer start (harder starting conditions).

Thoughts/issues- Mainly that it's only hard until you manage to get on even footing with another start (so a wolf + a Shepard + some pocket change).  If you can manage to do that, congrats, you're now where you would've been had you picked that start from the first place, and are clearly skilled enough to win from there , because you just got to that point from somewhere worse, and the difficulty spike is over.  The debt adds some longevity to it, but this is basically a challenge run that ends when you stablize.

2. Alternate playing conditions (like choosing a starting team in nex):

Thoughts/Issues- like the above, the conditions this starts you in only last until you get you way out of them, but I do think it's got the potential to help with replayability.  Suppose you start as an outlaw with a pirate fleet, but major rep penalties across the factions, or a wanted rebel who can work with smaller factions but has an open bounty on them from the main ones, or a totally unarmed smuggler fleet?  The upside here being that while you could just quickly do whatever is needed to pivot to "optimal" play, it also encourages trying something different.

3. Widening the power gap:

Thoughts/issues- right now I think it's still way too easy to get good ships. Ignoring blueprints, ships are decently cheap and salvage is huge.  I still think ships should be locked up tighter and harder to find if you aren't part of the military, meaning you'd have to salvage or buy the larger ones.  Salvage, since d mods are no longer such a huge downside, should be more rare unless you have skills and equipment to make it easier.  Right now I can wind up being offered 1/4th of an enemy fleet, so in a few won battles I've got what they've got with any decent luck, but there's no skill involved besides "win".   If salvage and restored hulls become harder to find, you can finally have a ship economy as well, rather than the current situation where even the rarest stuff sells for peanuts.

Oddly weapons are much harder to get reliably than ships, and are in a better place. I do think rare weapons should sell for and cost more though, thus making another reason to look into low vs high tech.

4. Escalating content:

The only real example of this right now is the redacted, and that's some of the issue. You go out exploring, find some hazards, kill what you can, and repeat until you know you're unbeatable.  There's nothing really wrong with this except for the lack of options.  There's one "boss" faction in the game, and then your other end game option is just going to war with everyone and fighting giant doom fleets. 

This can be fun, but more variety would be nice (the 3 types of stations added , each with 3 levels really help).  Maybe a few "elite" fleets that each faction can field which will only engage you when they REALLY hate you.  2+ for each faction, with each fleet showing off a different faction doctrine optimized to the extreme, maybe with a special ship/weapon (or maybe not, them playing fair is interesting too). 

All that said the game is still pretty good as is. If it were just numbers tweaks from here I think you could still accomplish a lot to even out the gameplay (i'm a big believe in non RNG scarcity doing wonders for game feel).
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: DiM on November 24, 2018, 07:47:42 AM
It's definitely too fast right now. I don't want it to be very slow, either; still finding the right balance. I think given the Galatian Stipend, it's probably ok to tone down some early/mid-game rewards, as those were mostly set up before that was a thing. Going to look at it at some point; it's safe to expect some possibly sweeping changes in this from release to release.
That's good to hear, however I think you should consider reworking the economy again.
Just kidding.
But seriously, importing stuff for free shouldn't be a thing, colonies that import stuff from out of faction should have those costs deducted from their income.
Or is it already that way and i just haven't noticed?
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: torbes on November 24, 2018, 09:03:23 AM
Just want to chime in on the bounty scale jump and add that Chalcedon is a gold mine. They have 2-3x deficits in almost everything and I was able to easily load up a handful of buffalos with heavy armaments/drugs/organs and sell for ~1-2mil.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 24, 2018, 09:32:10 AM
I liked that I could buy cruiser warship clunkers in open market.  Buying that extra cruiser when I needed it helped me beat one of the spiked-up difficulty fleets when I was in my do-or-die situation in the midgame.

Much stuff is still locked up in faction's military markets and stuff, but now that I can find (or rob) blueprints, accessibility is not too much a problem late in the game.  Finding blueprints that are not one of the common packs are still too annoyingly rare.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 24, 2018, 09:48:37 AM
I find XP progression fine, given the current skill system.  I am probably at the endgame now, at level 49.  (I want level 50 for all of the skill points since all of the extra skill points we got all went to colony stuff.)  That said, I did avoid unnecessary fighting now that I am mostly in full explorer mode while colonies churn out money.

That said, I have an annoying pather base I need to find before I can explore again, and I was forced to plop my sixth colony near where I hope the pathers are hiding.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Goumindong on November 24, 2018, 10:05:11 AM
It's definitely too fast right now. I don't want it to be very slow, either; still finding the right balance. I think given the Galatian Stipend, it's probably ok to tone down some early/mid-game rewards, as those were mostly set up before that was a thing. Going to look at it at some point; it's safe to expect some possibly sweeping changes in this from release to release.
That's good to hear, however I think you should consider reworking the economy again.
Just kidding.
But seriously, importing stuff for free shouldn't be a thing, colonies that import stuff from out of faction should have those costs deducted from their income.
Or is it already that way and i just haven't noticed?

It’s already that way. You can check imports on your colony income breakdown iirc
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Zaskow on November 24, 2018, 10:13:25 AM
My only complain is Galatian Stipend. For me it decreases difficulty a LOT.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Dragon239 on November 24, 2018, 12:39:09 PM
The Stipend does seem like it could be an easy-mode benefit, although I do like the fluff of it overall.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Maelstrom on November 24, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
I think its perfect right now... if you want to struggle just make supplies more expensive and fuel. Problem solved... you really don't have to make it harder for everyone just because you want to have a hard time. Honestly I think its really good pace at the moment and btw, *** goes really fast time wise in-game! I only got a few million credits after 18 years in-game time so I don't think its a 10 minute deal. My character is has already spent more time flying than ive been mentally concious in my own life (the first 3-4 years is just a big blurr) so I think its pretty balanced honestly. Before that the game was impossible and trading was just making it way too harsh. Stop complaining about it being too easy and just change 2 numbers in the settings file, seriously.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Deshara on November 24, 2018, 02:30:43 PM
i feel like the stipend should vanish if you found a colony. Or, like, not only do they stop paying you but also any stipend you have saved up vanishes from your account once you found a colony as well so you can't do what I did (spend it on supplies and basically do nothing until you have enough $ to found a colony and max out industries off the stipend alone)
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Euphytose on November 25, 2018, 02:13:11 PM
For me there are two things that make the game too easy:

1) Once you find a good trade route to exploit, it's basically a money making machine. You could even spend some time creating a very elaborate macro and do it automatically.

2) Capital ships, mostly Onslaught and Paragon. I'm not a very original player, I usually have a fleet made up of one or two Onslaughts, two Dominators, and 2-3 Enforcers for the military side, plus some fuel, crew and cargo ships of course.

The Onslaught, when properly configured, is indestructible. I'm obviously playing on normal, no mods. I always put points into the max OP skill, and then I max all the combat skills. You don't even need to use the shields on this ship, maybe to catch a torpedo but that's it. I don't even use capacitors, just vents. It's just destruction itself placed into a ship. Park it near anything and it's dead. You can even face tank a tier 3 station.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Bastion.Systems on November 25, 2018, 02:40:38 PM
Scanning mission payouts are still too big, maybe they should require some resource or scanner strength to take, or have enemies you have to defeat on site?  I can take my spacer start shuttle, salvage any other ship from Corvus and be on my way to a 80K payout scan mission. This feels like an exploit.

Maybe if you scale the spacer dept up faster it would be better? Also some kind of hard mode with larger expedition fleets and faction rep dropping faster. Having bounties put on your head would be cool, I really liked the Histidine's Nexerelin revenge fleets, just huge death balls that home in on your fleet when you really anger a faction.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Deshara on November 25, 2018, 04:25:54 PM
For me there are two things that make the game too easy:

1) Once you find a good trade route to exploit, it's basically a money making machine. You could even spend some time creating a very elaborate macro and do it automatically.

I remember there being more mechanics to smuggling that made it more interesting that I missed but I'm hard pressed ATM what it was
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: nathanebht on November 25, 2018, 05:28:33 PM
My only complain is Galatian Stipend. For me it decreases difficulty a LOT.

Yeah, the stipend made things too easy in the beginning.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Dragon239 on November 25, 2018, 05:35:26 PM
I remember there being more mechanics to smuggling that made it more interesting that I missed but I'm hard pressed ATM what it was
IIRC, they would Investigate any acts of smuggling, so even if you did not have a transponder on they could track it down to you.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Euphytose on November 25, 2018, 05:56:07 PM
The trade route I'm using is from Chtelenn (very likely misspelled) to Quoras. I buy all their drugs and organs on the black market, buy tons of fuel and supplies in the open market, which is apparently enough to "cover" the black market purchases. I then sell everything to Quoras, on the black market. I buy their volatiles and organics and sell them on the open market to Chtelenn. Rinse and repeat infinitely.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Deshara on November 25, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
I remember there being more mechanics to smuggling that made it more interesting that I missed but I'm hard pressed ATM what it was
IIRC, they would Investigate any acts of smuggling, so even if you did not have a transponder on they could track it down to you.

They still do that.
Oh! I remember now what it was, you could dodge suspicion by making dummy sales on the open market
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Dragon239 on November 26, 2018, 05:06:54 AM
You don't get any suspicion level right now when you trade with your transponder off, and you can mitigate suspicion level via "Open Market" trading still.
Check the tooltip for "Black Market" on the trade screen.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 26, 2018, 05:09:31 AM
I relied on the Stipend in the beginning.  It was useful during my learning experience with my first colony.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: nomadic_leader on November 26, 2018, 08:36:46 AM
I think given the Galatian Stipend, it's probably ok to tone down some early/mid-game rewards, as those were mostly set up before that was a thing.

I'd say the reverse. The Galatian Stipend is less interesting and less fun than any other form of reward. Lose the stipend, keep the other rewards that you actually have fun getting.

It feels off too, since most of us skip through the tutorial on subsequent plays.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Dragon239 on November 26, 2018, 09:13:47 AM
Why does skipping the tutorial make it feel off?
Your character still "goes through" the tutorial, you the player just skip it. It'd be odd if the game unduly rewarded people who went through the tutorial over those who didn't, IMO.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Serenitis on November 26, 2018, 09:34:59 AM
Quote
Get rid of the stipend.
(https://i.imgur.com/GYY1EWO.gif?1)

I make no secret of the fact I dislike crew and officers leeching your money.
Firstly because it puts an extra burden on what is already the most difficult early part of the game, and adds more hassle where it is most unwelcome and hardest to deal with.
And secondly, once you get into the mid-game and beyond, crew salaries become entirely irrelevant. Even just half-heartedly doing bounties and ignoring the colony goldmines you get more than enough money to not care about it at all.

Crew salaries front-load the difficulty of the game even more than it already is, with no real benefit.
And the stipend does a decent job of mitigating that.

tl;dr - You can take the stipend away, if you take crew/officer salaries away.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Dexy on November 26, 2018, 10:01:34 AM
I do not like the stipend. Move it to easy difficulty or something.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: nathanebht on November 26, 2018, 01:18:14 PM
.9a was easy without me doing any trade routes. I just did missions and bounties. Kill pirate fleets in a certain system bounties are fun and rewarding in the mid game.

Tavern missions were very helpful early and mid game. Maybe too helpful.

Without the Galatian Stipend think it would have been more fun. Greatly increase the crew salary. Officer salary is already very expensive. Increase the amounts you can sell ship hulls and weapons for on the open market. The difference between the ask and sell prices are too unrealistic.

It should be rewarding to sell a nice hull you bring back. Not aggravating because that planet is selling that same hull at 8 times the price.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Tacheyon on November 26, 2018, 07:10:39 PM
I think that without the stipend most people would be bankrupt rather quickly especially with all the new salaries and so forth especially for new players which is why it exists. I could imagine the stipend not being a flat 15k but an amount equal to the salaries you have. A net of zero so you don't have to worry about losing money but don't gain either.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Dragon239 on November 26, 2018, 07:50:25 PM
What new salaries? Crew salaries have been in for most if not all of the game, as far as I remember.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: nomadic_leader on November 27, 2018, 01:22:25 AM
Why does skipping the tutorial make it feel off?
Your character still "goes through" the tutorial, you the player just skip it. It'd be odd if the game unduly rewarded people who went through the tutorial over those who didn't, IMO.

Says who? I don't want to go through the tutorial. That's why a skip it.  And if you look at the cumulative amount of the stipend, it's totally out of proportion with what you actually did.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Cosmitz on November 27, 2018, 01:30:40 AM
I like the stipend as a tool for new players to get up to speed, but it really should be toned down, if only in the amount of time it's given. I'd say a few months/a year is more than enough to get someone on their feet. I'd much rather players engage with the content rather than realise it's /profitable/, to sell/storage all your ships minus one, go to some edge of a system with enough supplies to keep a Kite alive for how long the stipend lasts and just keep a brick on the shift key and come back in a few hours to 3 years farmed of stipend money.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: TrashMan on November 27, 2018, 03:49:37 AM
I'd make ships a LOT more expensive and normalize a bit the rewards.

You really shouldn't be able to buy a fancy new cruiser after 2 trade runs.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Null Ganymede on November 27, 2018, 05:15:17 AM
Credits are kind of the least interesting resource in Starsector.

It's especially noticeable in a modded run. You want blueprints, colony modules, and weapons weapons weapons. Never enough weapons to fit out the hulls you have, until you find blueprints for them... Playing around with fleet compositions and new ships is typically something you would savescum for, or limit experimentation to the emulator. Colonies effectively removing the credit/hull logistics cost lets you mess around with whatever set of blueprints/skills/map location you've got.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 27, 2018, 05:41:50 AM
More expensive ships means slower production.  At first, I was excited to obtain XIV blueprints until I saw how much the ship costs over standard model.  Onslaught XIV costs over 400K, more than Paragon.  It will take about three months to produce with a size 7 colony.  Eagle XIV is almost twice as expensive as stock Eagle.  I probably would prefer normal Eagle if I need to produce several for my fleet.

Also more expensive ships does not mean much if primary way of obtaining ships is recovering them.  (I recover nearly all of my ships until I can produce them myself.)

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Colonies effectively removing the credit/hull logistics cost lets you mess around with whatever set of blueprints/skills/map location you've got.
And I love it.  Too bad it is mostly an endgame thing because by the time I can raid planets for missing blueprints, the game is effectively won.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: intrinsic_parity on November 27, 2018, 08:49:23 AM
I like the stipend as a tool for new players to get up to speed, but it really should be toned down, if only in the amount of time it's given. I'd say a few months/a year is more than enough to get someone on their feet. I'd much rather players engage with the content rather than realise it's /profitable/, to sell/storage all your ships minus one, go to some edge of a system with enough supplies to keep a Kite alive for how long the stipend lasts and just keep a brick on the shift key and come back in a few hours to 3 years farmed of stipend money.
You still miss out on the opportunity cost of all the time you wasted. No one will do this because it's not fun and it's not optimal. Also it costs money to store ships now (I'm not sure about the abandoned stations but definitely in faction worlds), and selling ships loses a lot of money, so this may not even be all that profitable. I really don't care about the stipend, it's a little extra money but the player is still going to try and do missions which is what they would have done anyway, so it doesn't change behavior/gameplay at all. It just provides a safety net for players who might make some mistakes learning the game and helps compensate for the new salaries of crew and officers. I think it would be a good idea to add a hard mode with it turned off for those who want a challenge, but it should be on by default.

That being said, I'm sure there will be a lot more added with regards to story based content and more extensive tutorials and nothing that we are discussing right now will even be relevant to the final game.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Histidine on November 27, 2018, 07:18:09 PM
Except for concerns of paying crew/officer salaries, I'd prefer having ship insurance instead of the stipend. Helps the player recover from losses from things like randomly running into outsized pirate fleets (and not have to wait for the month to roll over to collect what may only be a fraction of the total losses), without making the early game faster for successful players.

On the other hand it doesn't help with other ways a new player might mess up, like buying the wrong ships or making unprofitable trades.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: code99 on November 27, 2018, 09:34:36 PM
I realize I might be in the minority here but leave normal difficulty as is and just create a new difficulty ("hard" seems a good name for it :) ) when starting the game where you remove the stipend and make supplies/fuel more expensive or similar tweaks and call it a day.

Don't ruin normal difficulty for those who find it, well, normal. I like normal diff and I wouldnt want to play on easy either because I get bonuses to damage and such which I am not a fan of in any game.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Thaago on November 27, 2018, 10:25:06 PM
I realize I might be in the minority here but leave normal difficulty as is and just create a new difficulty ("hard" seems a good name for it :) ) when starting the game where you remove the stipend and make supplies/fuel more expensive or similar tweaks and call it a day.

Don't ruin normal difficulty for those who find it, well, normal. I like normal diff and I wouldnt want to play on easy either because I get bonuses to damage and such which I am not a fan of in any game.

This is exactly how I feel. Normal as it stands is a nice relaxing place for vets to try new things and not worry, but the fights are on the level. Its still quite the challenge for new players, even with the stipend. Ironman/Spacer start is a good 'hard' mode.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 28, 2018, 04:35:41 AM
I like Normal as is.  I avoid Easy because I do not want permanent damage reduction just because... easy.

Ironman just means I quit game while in combat to prevent game save then relaunch game to save scum.  Too bothersome when I can simply not take Ironman.  Ironman does not go far enough; it needs permadeath where if your fleet wipes, your character is killed and game over.

It seems Spacer (which I have not tried yet) just puts the player into a deep hole where part of the challenge is to eventually attain parity with a normal start before proceeding as usually.  There is a pre-early game before the early game.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: TaLaR on November 28, 2018, 04:48:59 AM
It seems Spacer (which I have not tried yet) just puts the player into a deep hole where part of the challenge is to eventually attain parity with a normal start before proceeding as usually.  There is a pre-early game before the early game.

You start with Kite(S), which has no weapon slots and 2k credits (+you still have Hermes with Degraded Engines in abandoned platform). Your debt payment is 1k*level per month. Basically, a harder smuggler start.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 28, 2018, 04:57:16 AM
Can you pay off the debt, or is it just a constant money drain to reduce income and slow progression?  I probably would have no patience with that.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: TaLaR on November 28, 2018, 05:03:35 AM
Can you pay off the debt, or is it just a constant money drain to reduce income and slow progression?  I probably would have no patience with that.

Constant money drain, as far as I've seen. There is no progression/total sum indication. Just 'An obligation from your past' -income line with tooltip saying 'You never talk about it'.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 28, 2018, 05:08:27 AM
Sounds like I will not touch Spacer start.  Less income means more grinding, and I dislike unnecessary grinding.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: TaLaR on November 28, 2018, 05:13:31 AM
I does make you consider time constraints even before colony phase, which is good (for difficulty). Galatian stipend income makes game too easy, here you have reverse of it. Also never needed to smuggle as main form of income before, so doing it once was kind of educational.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 28, 2018, 05:26:46 AM
Galatian stipend income makes game too easy...
I do not think so.  Maybe if player takes commission on top of that, but for my first game (without commission), the stipend helped my total income stay out of the red for a while.  Of course, I built my first colony almost immediately, on a 175% hazard planet (with huge resources), before everyone knew how to colonize the right way.

I would not mind if the stipend duration was lowered to one year, but otherwise, I am fine with it.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: TaLaR on November 28, 2018, 05:32:37 AM
Maybe if player takes commission on top of that, but for my first game (without commission)

Why not? TT are easy to please (just don't attack them directly), improve my access to high-tech ships and while commission does not prevent raids, it provides enough relation boost to just pay 25 each time.
Getting indulgence to raid other factions without locking myself into -100 relations is nice bonus too.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Igncom1 on November 28, 2018, 05:45:28 AM
I mean the game isn't very difficult but it can be frustrating when you lose progress or get reset based on RNG which just eats real life time.

So I save scum as par for course when playing and play on easy for more rewards to get stuff going faster. It could be fun to work up from nothing, carefully managing every risk with the rewards over weeks of playtime. Or I can do it in about 10 hours without having to worry about being wiped out from that salvaging fleet that suddenly went hostile with their death fleet at the edge of the sector. They don't need to pay to be out there, I do.

Not to mention finding yet another star with no planets and no resources when exploring. Or worse, heavily defended deep space probes with nothing but a splattering of supplies and fuel to waste my time with. At least the mother ship gives a nanoforge.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on November 28, 2018, 08:20:59 AM
Maybe if player takes commission on top of that, but for my first game (without commission)

Why not? TT are easy to please (just don't attack them directly), improve my access to high-tech ships and while commission does not prevent raids, it provides enough relation boost to just pay 25 each time.
Getting indulgence to raid other factions without locking myself into -100 relations is nice bonus too.
For my first game, I wanted to go without commission like when I first played 0.8.  Due to where the best planets were, my colonies are right next to Hegemony space, so if anything, I probably would have been encouraged to join Hegemony if I wanted commission.

If I play again, I probably would sign for commission early, then leave when I no longer need it.

I use a mix of all three techs, so no one faction has everything I want.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Euphytose on November 28, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
Just make an option to toggle the stipend on or off. I think it's way too easy with it. At least change it to a "your crew salaries were paid by an anonymous benefactor for the upcoming year" or something like that. It's still a little bonus but it's not a benefit, just makes things more neutral.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on November 28, 2018, 05:59:09 PM
Just make an option to toggle the stipend on or off. I think it's way too easy with it. At least change it to a "your crew salaries were paid by an anonymous benefactor for the upcoming year" or something like that. It's still a little bonus but it's not a benefit, just makes things more neutral.
Just crew? No thanks. Crew, officers and admins? YES PLEASE!
At the same time, we're all pretty high level players. I'd like to see how the stipend helps out the newer players.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: azzogat on March 07, 2019, 12:59:33 AM
At the same time, we're all pretty high level players. I'd like to see how the stipend helps out the newer players.

Sorry for necro-ing but I made an account just for this.  Just got about 10 hours under normal ( with one 7h run ) so I'd consider myself a new player. Here's my two cents:

As much as I'd love to sink another 100 hours into the game, the meta is just too easy. 2h in everything seems to lose purpose as your power level just explodes.
Hyperspace travel is essentially hassle-free. The factions are either not aggressive enough or they don't have enough fleets overall ( and I'm on negative with all but Hegemony ). The only hassle is the annoyance of navigating the "storms" and occasionally avoiding the very few stronger faction fleets. Avoiding the fleets is fairly easy as the strong ones are generally much slower.

The skill-driven power explosion was unsatisfactory as well. Overall skills feel meaningless when you get so many so quickly.

The stipend + commission down-right break the already fragile economy.
By fragile I mean:
 The over-supply of ships ( they are more common than ore or basic supplies .... )
 The ship prices are ludicrously low. Even at 2x their current cost they would still be ridiculously low. ( I had an Onslaught with 1D 4h in, did not break the bank either )
 Trade routes are way too easy to abuse ( it's worse than in the usual grind-trading systems since your viable options are actually lower but the payouts much higher )
 Rewards are way too big for non-combat "quests". ( to be read as those without a cost sink )
 Basic supplies are way too cheap and abundant.
 I have more weapons than storage slots to put them in ( from salvage ). Granted, they are not rare but nor did I ever feel the need for rare weapons or stronger ships ( 7h in this run ).
 
To make things worse, the faction standings are too easy to recover from and overall feel very artificial. They switch and change too often and easily, making them lose substance.
IMHO accepting a comission should be a big, game-changing thing, not just an easy way into cash.

Not much to comment on the combat. I skip it whenever I can, due to the overall goal of this run. The goal was to create a faction and ( possibly ) wipe the rest out. Simple stuff that should prove challenging and lengthy. While I'm hoping the end game will prove to be more challenging, I very much doubt it. It's already more of a chore than a challenge.

Sure, I can always "role play my own difficulty" but it feels unnatural.


  
 
 

Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Euphytose on March 07, 2019, 01:18:36 AM
Yes, this is something I think most people agree with. You go from space peasant to overlord in a matter of a few real-time hours.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 07, 2019, 09:10:13 AM
At the same time, we're all pretty high level players. I'd like to see how the stipend helps out the newer players.

Sorry for necro-ing but I made an account just for this.  Just got about 10 hours under normal ( with one 7h run ) so I'd consider myself a new player. Here's my two cents:

As much as I'd love to sink another 100 hours into the game, the meta is just too easy. 2h in everything seems to lose purpose as your power level just explodes.
Hyperspace travel is essentially hassle-free. The factions are either not aggressive enough or they don't have enough fleets overall ( and I'm on negative with all but Hegemony ). The only hassle is the annoyance of navigating the "storms" and occasionally avoiding the very few stronger faction fleets. Avoiding the fleets is fairly easy as the strong ones are generally much slower.

The skill-driven power explosion was unsatisfactory as well. Overall skills feel meaningless when you get so many so quickly.

The stipend + commission down-right break the already fragile economy.
By fragile I mean:
 The over-supply of ships ( they are more common than ore or basic supplies .... )
 The ship prices are ludicrously low. Even at 2x their current cost they would still be ridiculously low. ( I had an Onslaught with 1D 4h in, did not break the bank either )
 Trade routes are way too easy to abuse ( it's worse than in the usual grind-trading systems since your viable options are actually lower but the payouts much higher )
 Rewards are way too big for non-combat "quests". ( to be read as those without a cost sink )
 Basic supplies are way too cheap and abundant.
 I have more weapons than storage slots to put them in ( from salvage ). Granted, they are not rare but nor did I ever feel the need for rare weapons or stronger ships ( 7h in this run ).
 
To make things worse, the faction standings are too easy to recover from and overall feel very artificial. They switch and change too often and easily, making them lose substance.
IMHO accepting a comission should be a big, game-changing thing, not just an easy way into cash.

Not much to comment on the combat. I skip it whenever I can, due to the overall goal of this run. The goal was to create a faction and ( possibly ) wipe the rest out. Simple stuff that should prove challenging and lengthy. While I'm hoping the end game will prove to be more challenging, I very much doubt it. It's already more of a chore than a challenge.

Sure, I can always "role play my own difficulty" but it feels unnatural.
A couple things.
That d modded onslaught was cheap because of the d mod. Iirc, they they cut the sale price down by 80percent per mod
Alex is addressing the free money issue from colonies while making expeditions much less of a hassle.
If you are bored of vanilla, try the Nexerlin mod. Factions are much more aggressive in it than vanilla
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on March 17, 2019, 08:56:05 AM
Yes, this is something I think most people agree with. You go from space peasant to overlord in a matter of a few real-time hours.
I consider that a good thing.  Not everyone has unlimited time to grind on a game.

P.S.  Since I do not exploit all of the tricks for optimal play, it takes more than a few hours to reach overlord level.  On some games, those hours are spread out in days instead of all in one session.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Euphytose on March 17, 2019, 09:14:41 AM
Yes, this is something I think most people agree with. You go from space peasant to overlord in a matter of a few real-time hours.
I consider that a good thing.  Not everyone has unlimited time to grind on a game.

P.S.  Since I do not exploit all of the tricks for optimal play, it takes more than a few hours to reach overlord level.  On some games, those hours are spread out in days instead of all in one session.

The game is the journey from that space peasant to overlord. Once you have your end-game fleet, it's over. You just destroy any fleet effortlessly. Might as well play an ARPG. Reaching the end-game so quickly is most definitely an issue.

If you really want a quick game, simply set your starting money and level very high and that's it.

But you said before that you exploit infinite money bugs anyway, so your opinion about the topic isn't really relevant. I'm wondering why you even bother playing and don't simply spawn your final fleet with the console.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on March 17, 2019, 11:17:15 AM
There is no console without mods, and I usually play Starsector without mods.

I have no problem abusing exploits found within the game, but those (that were or are truly game breaking) have been and will be fixed eventually.  Part of the fun is abusing exploits (or simply playing honestly but savvy enough) to make an overpowered character that can destroy all enemies.  Adding a third-party one in via mod or cheating with devmode or settings.json changes to get there is pointless (if not building a mod to test stuff).  Might as well declare "I win!" and move on to something else.

I did not use infinite money until after my fourth game (because I did not know of it then).  By the time I was aware of it, I played enough.  I was in no mood to play whack-a-mole with pirates and pathers by then (and I need to resume work on other projects).  I started a fifth game to try out the Commerce bug, but after building up millions quickly, I quit.  If I play a new game again before 0.9.1 release, I will gladly abuse that bug; but, I think I will wait until next release due to other things I need to deal with.

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The game is the journey from that space peasant to overlord. Once you have your end-game fleet, it's over. You just destroy any fleet effortlessly.
Overlord that can crush fleets is the best part.  The journey is not the fun part (for me), crushing or destroying the world with your overlord powers is the fun part.  Why would I want to quit the game so soon after I grind for hours or longer to reach overload?

Obtaining endgame fleet alone is not quite the end.  Having enough resources to replace it several times over relatively painlessly (with high income and all of the blueprints I want) could be.  However, it is annoying that I do not find enough blueprints until enough time passes that I could destroy the core worlds multiple times.

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Might as well play an ARPG.
Sounds like Starfarer/Starsector.  Once combat begins, you shoot things up.

What I do not want to do is spend days or weeks grinding for levels, items, or virtual cash like in various online games.  I would not be surprised if some players have been conditioned that such tedious gameplay is normal and how things ought to be.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Igncom1 on March 17, 2019, 11:44:10 AM
I'm still on my current campaign just to try out new fleet compositions, explore, and pillage the hegemony.

It's not hard, and I have infinite money, plus I'm on easy mode. But I suppose I was never really looking for a hard edge challenge of my skills. I just want to see space ships shoot each other and stuff.

I could see the game being harder, but to be fair even then it's really easy just to not screw with any of the major powers, if anything the hardest test right now is defending your colony against expeditions. Death fleet or not, you need to be ready to fight one or dozens of enemy death fleets coming to steal your stuff. Which is fun in it's own way. I like fighting the expeditions at end game, it's a great excuse to have hour long battles against massive arsenals of stuff with your back against the wall, fighting side by side with a factions you have dictated and created.

It could be harder, sure, but honestly I play easy mode so I don't have to care about the money. That's my perspective, the game thrives on it's reasons to fight fleet battles, not on it's economic management.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Euphytose on March 17, 2019, 12:15:55 PM
There is no console without mods, and I usually play Starsector without mods.

You're missing out. I don't use many of them, but the ones that are well made only improve the game. I don't think I would want to play without Nexerelin ever again.

I have no problem abusing exploits found within the game

And that's where we differ completely. I don't understand the fun in that. Were you doing a speedrun, why not? But this isn't the case.

Overlord that can crush fleets is the best part.  The journey is not the fun part (for me), crushing or destroying the world with your overlord powers is the fun part.  Why would I want to quit the game so soon after I grind for hours or longer to reach overload?

And again, cannot disagree more. Destroying everything extremely easily is no fun at all. When I was younger it would have been, for sure, but not anymore. Not sure how old you are but maybe it's just an age thing. Because I would also have used exploits at that time.

Sounds like Starfarer/Starsector.  Once combat begins, you shoot things up.

That's not exactly ARPG combat though, there's a lot of thought to it, at least when you're still building your fleet.

What I do not want to do is spend days or weeks grinding for levels, items, or virtual cash like in various online games.  I would not be surprised if some players have been conditioned that such tedious gameplay is normal and how things ought to be.

I hate grinding just as you do. But there are other ways to make the end game take much longer to reach. I've already suggested that you start in a "new world", with barely anything for sale, and it develops over time. Right now, you spawn, and there are already end game stuff for sale. One Tri-Tachyon loan is enough to give you a huge boost.

Edit: In fact it's more than just a boost, it lets you bypass the very early game completely.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Steven Shi on March 17, 2019, 04:14:09 PM
Took one day as a pure trader/explorer to get enough money to equip a half decent fleet. By day 2 or 3, I got a Conquest as salvage by just following a friendly expedition fleet with huge cargo space salvaging everything in sight. I end up x10 the cost of all the ships while making resale value the same as vanilla to not snowball like crazy.

I don't know how some people find the early game to be hard. I was making a mint with a cargo hauler making shortage runs and scavenging. If I was going down the bounty hunting route, I'd have snowballed even faster. It is incredibly easy to avoid engaging anything you can't kill in the early game that you basically have to fall asleep on the wheel to get caught.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: Megas on March 17, 2019, 04:14:39 PM
@ Euphytose:  I played some Starsector mods before, years ago.  Even many of the so-called balanced (and quality) ones introduce power creep that I am not fond of.  I remember Nexerelin fondly.

I am not much into speedruns.  I may attempt them if that is a way to unlock features in some games (like DoomRL).  I tend to prefer clearing levels for 100%, and I tend to take my time.  For StarSector, my endgame goal tends to be "survey ALL planets in the sector and acquire ALL blueprints".  I tend to get worn out by endless whack-a-hole pirates and pathers by the time half the sector gets explored.  If I manage to explore everything, my next goal probably would be exterminate all factions, although pirates would probably wipe out half the core worlds without my help if I did nothing to stop them.

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Destroying everything extremely easily is no fun at all.
I can understand that.  Been there before myself, long ago.

I am relatively old, and have played games since the late '70s.  I probably was a power-hungry munchkin, then so-called "grew out of it" in (I guess) the '90s, then came full circle back to power-hungry munchkin by about the '00s (after playing much PvP against others more ruthless than I).  Now, I do not have much time for games, and I prefer to win (or accomplish the mission) as soon as possible.  I prefer to treat games as war.  The more efficient and the more lopsided the victory is, the better.  The best fight is the one where I win before any actual fighting starts.  Failing that, stack the deck so far in your favor that the enemy does not stand a chance.  That said, outright cheating (like IDDQD for invulnerability and IDKFA for all weapons) is not allowed because it defeats the point of the game.  I think the popular term for this in role-playing games is "Combat As War", which is somewhat opposed to "Combat As Sport", where fair (or balanced), challenging, and dramatic fights are encouraged, not to be avoided.

I can understand some do not want to be ruthless demigods when they play.  (I do!)

That said, I do have some playing quirks with Starsector that may result in sub-optimal play, sort of like unofficial conducts.  For example, I do not want to accept any commission because doing so will implant that "Commissions" tab on intel, forever branding my character with that scarlet letter.  I do not use other resources because I do not want to deal with more headaches, even if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.  For example, cores and inspections.  (I use Free Port because it makes no difference if five factions instead of three send invaders that are auto-resolved away.)
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: angrytigerp on March 19, 2019, 03:37:45 PM
I think a good middle ground might be to rework industry a bit more. Right now, as it stands, if you have enough banked to survive the first month or two of unrest and/or repairing or constructing a port (assuming you captured one), it will very rapidly and easily go into the green, and you'll be pocketing 6 figures on a monthly basis. It only increases as you build more industries and/or add more cores.

I could definitely see just reducing industrial profits by like 50% even helping avoid the exponential wealth curve once you establish an empire.
Title: Re: Is Starsector too easy? And what's the deal with hiding the Spacer option?
Post by: intrinsic_parity on March 19, 2019, 08:12:53 PM
I'm pretty sue alex has made some very major changes to industries in dev build (see blog posts). Stuff like limiting the number of industries with slots.