Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Reshy on March 04, 2012, 03:09:19 PM
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I don't know if anyone else has had this issue, but it doesn't seem like the AI properly uses missiles. More often than not I kill the enemy ships before they fire off a single missile off their rack, this happens with friendly ships also and the auto-pilot. I don't know if this is accurate, but it seems the AI is saving them for a destroyer/cruiser/capital ship even if none are on the field or in reserve nor if they're being mobbed by frigates and nearly dead. This kind of makes torpedo fighters a non-threat because if you attack them with frigate they will never ever use their reaper torpedos and instead shoot at you with their wimpy PD laser. Same goes for many ships that are mostly missile based.
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i believe i remember Alex saying at some point that the AI will try to not use missiles that have low ammo I.E. not hurricane or Pilum, unless you have expanded missile racks. or are low on your other weapons ammo.
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if i remember correctly some fix for that was coming in the next patch... not sure though
but yes, they don't use them very often... but sometimes, when it is incredibly annoying
lashers will sometimes release 10 harpoons when they are about to die... screwing you over
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Never had a pilum or the emp missile problem, the AI love them.
On the other hand the Harpoon MRM (thats utter death against unshielded craft) the AI almost never uses. ive taken down capitals with two lashers and harpoons. (of course i had to use another ship to take down its shields.
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On the other side of the coin I feel like most ships AI do not properly react against many missiles specifically the Hurricane MIRV's which confuse the ships because they don't understand that the missile will split and hit in a larger area.
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On the other side of the coin I feel like most ships AI do not properly react against many missiles specifically the Hurricane MIRV's which confuse the ships because they don't understand that the missile will split and hit in a larger area.
Rarely a problem at least for my frigates as they generally arm the forward shield and charge ahead leaving the rest to fly behind.
And Pilums and MIRV I don't see a problem with, it's Torpedos, MRMs, Rockets, and SRMs.
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/524906675504232973/15E3D3DC7A19FD2876E822D823284CE56589FBFA/)
Also this is just silly.
but yes, they don't use them very often... but sometimes, when it is incredibly annoying
lashers will sometimes release 10 harpoons when they are about to die... screwing you over
Well if they're losing and desperate why not use their missiles? It makes sense if anything.
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Also this is just silly.
That frigate is thrusting laterally to the incoming. If it's got zero flux, I'd bet money that not one of those missiles actually hits, as it's moving faster than Pilums could chase even in a straight line.
Actually, you're right, it IS silly how ineffective anything that's not a swarm is against anything (non-fighter) small. This might have something to do with some frigates being faster than most fighters ;)
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What's silly is how ineffective missiles in general, they have hilariously limited ammo and no accuracy of any description.
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What's silly is how ineffective missiles in general, they have hilariously limited ammo and no accuracy of any description.
While i dont agree with this statemnt ^^
However I do agree with jamesraynor's initial post, the AI is not that great at using its missiles, more so in smaller fights they often hold onto missiles in 1 on 1 engagments for reasons i cant comprehend.
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What's silly is how ineffective missiles in general, they have hilariously limited ammo and no accuracy of any description.
i dont agree with this statemnt
What if missiles were weaker but generally more accurate?
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What if missiles were weaker but generally more accurate?
Then I'd stop trying to avoid them or even block them in anything larger than a destroyer and focus only on the ships actually shooting at me... thus negating the whole point of Pilums, Salamanders, etc. I see no problem with missile accuracy against any craft larger than frigates (and several frigates are receiving movement speed reductions in the latest patch, making it harder to outrun missiles).
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What's silly is how ineffective missiles in general, they have hilariously limited ammo and no accuracy of any description.
i dont agree with this statemnt
What if missiles were weaker but generally more accurate?
I don't think it's a problem with the accuracy of the missile, rather it's simply because the AIs are so good at dodging them/blocking them with shield at just the right moment.
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Yeah the AI sucks at launching missiles... But they are awesome at dodging, or raising a shield. Much better than me actually... I wonder if we'll be able to have the omni shield point in a direction other than where my cursor is? Maybe hold a button and the shield stays where it is. Might make it easier for me to evade missile damage.
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What's silly is how ineffective missiles in general, they have hilariously limited ammo and no accuracy of any description.
i dont agree with this statemnt
What if missiles were weaker but generally more accurate?
I don't think it's a problem with the accuracy of the missile, rather it's simply because the AIs are so good at dodging them/blocking them with shield at just the right moment.
Not really, most are too slow or have bad tracking, the only ones I see hit at a reasonable rate are Sabots (Secondary faster movement speed), MIRV (splits into several faster missiles), and the Atropos Torpedoes (Also have a secondary booster), other than that they're tracking is pretty negligible. I mainly use them as a sting weapon, fly in close and launch them at short enough range that they cannot be dodged.
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I tend to think the LRMs and Hurricanes are right where they should be. They suck against frigs, but they tear unshielded larger ships to pieces. They don't track well, true, but they don't need to. Most of the cap ships can't dodge, and the cruisers aren't much better generally speaking.
I feel like the MRMs could use a speed increase, or just generally better tracking for fast targets (better/longer predictive lead). The harpoon especially is too slow. It's built as a finisher, which is great, but more often than not if you force your opponent to vent or overload, by the time you switch to, and fire your Harpoons... the missiles are too slow to close the gap before the shields come back on. Now, I realize this is an issue of timing, but I would like to see the Harpoons be a tad quicker in a straight line (they track just fine IMO)
I also imagine (for no real reason) that missile range/speed/guidance should be affected by the player character skills and officer skills. So maybe that will help close the gap between what we have now and what we can expect later.
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I'm not sure, I think they just try to save them for key moments. Lashers unleashing all their mrms when I'm high flux comes to mind.
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I'm not sure, I think they just try to save them for key moments. Lashers unleashing all their mrms when I'm high flux comes to mind.
Yeah they are annoyingly good at that... I get them down to a few hundred hull and think that I'm doing pretty well. I move off and start to vent, or just put my shields down, or maybe got overloaded, and bam, 6 missiles up the pipe and I'm toast, or at least hurting badly...
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I'm not sure, I think they just try to save them for key moments. Lashers unleashing all their mrms when I'm high flux comes to mind.
Yeah they are annoyingly good at that... I get them down to a few hundred hull and think that I'm doing pretty well. I move off and start to vent, or just put my shields down, or maybe got overloaded, and bam, 6 missiles up the pipe and I'm toast, or at least hurting badly...
Indeed. That's what makes the ai so effective with those lashers. The ai really is good at this, for now.
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Well, sometimes. They do try to save those missiles for a good time - but the AI can be overly cautious (to be fixed next version), and I've seen plenty of lashers die without firing a single harpoon at all. They tend to be a bit more aggressive with salamanders or swarmers, though, so I typically only mount harpoons or sabot SRMs on my flagship or on something that's meant to go after bigger prey than other frigates.
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It is really strange, that the harpoon MRM are so damging that it gives a lasher the capability to take an capital. And with such an good ai, it does do sometimes.
But when the ai is overly cautios, they tend to retreat quickly aswell.
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The stock lasher that you start with is a really powerful ship. But it's not one that the AI is actually very good at flying; I can take one out with a shuttle, because the AI doesn't realize that it has to close to machine gun range in order to take out my shields - and instead tries to make me overload with assault guns, which just doesn't work. It plays it a bit too cautiously against other frigates, and that isn't always the right thing.
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But it plays overly agressive against capitals :-\, but the AC's do kinetic damage, although the ai is not good at using the hardpoints, instead, i thinks they are turreted mounts, atleast that's what i've seen.
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Ah, we're talking about different variants. I was referring to the one with 2x fixed assault gun, 3x light machine gun, 2x harpoon mrm. On which the assault guns are explosive (and thus fair poorly against shields), while the machine guns are kinetic (and thus totally shred the shields of anything frigate sized).
A version with 2x fixed autocannons would be rather better at taking down shields from a decent range. I don't think I've actually come across one of those while flying a shuttle, so I can't say how I'd do.
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Aha, a misunderstanding, but Why combat a lasher with a shuttle (even if you won?)
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Because it was there, and I could?
Because I wanted to have some IR pulse lasers available for purchase, and since the game was refusing to randomly deliver any to the station, I had to go die a lot until I could get shuttles. And then I had to fly a shuttle over to the star base without dying along the way. Which included chasing off a large number of lasher frigates - they're just a bit faster than the shuttle, so I couldn't always avoid combat, and could only rarely get in kills.
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Yeah I really need to add convoys in my mod to deliver all these hard to get items. I already put conquests in as their cap ships. :D
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The Tri-Tachyon station and Gun Runner mod would solve that issue. The Gun Runner station seems to keep 20 of every weapon in stock.
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Oh true.
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To dig this thread back out of the rubble instead of creating a new thread
This is definitivly fixed in the Current version,
the AI loves to toss missiles at you and has this almost human "FIRE ZE MIZZILES!!" where they just unleash all missiles they got...
i just got totally annihilated 3 times in a row...
Hi, i'm the Aurora Cruiser...
i will just Fire my 4 Sabot SRM missile racks at you and watch you BURN!
Don't Mind me
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really? im still having trouble getting my AI to shoot small missile mounts that have 3 ammo or even 5 ammo.
i have essentially just started putting the high ammo small missile mounts on most things because of it. (annihilator rockets etc.) because it will use them.
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I don't actually know...
since the hull mods got rebalanced i mostly strip the missiles to get more OP for Hull mods or use the cheap and effective swarmers,
the hull mods are just sooo good
But the Bigger ships definitivly use them way more and much more aggresivly (says the guy who just ate 12 sabot's and blew up)
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The AI is more judicious about using low-ammo missiles vs frigates. It's very easy to miss and completely waste the shot, so it waits for an opportune moment (relative velocities, facing, flux levels, shield facing/status, missile damage type, hull levels, etc) before firing. Generally, it'll be conservative and only fire off one missile at a time vs frigates.
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The AI is more judicious about using low-ammo missiles vs frigates. It's very easy to miss and completely waste the shot, so it waits for an opportune moment (relative velocities, facing, flux levels, shield facing/status, missile damage type, hull levels, etc) before firing. Generally, it'll be conservative and only fire off one missile at a time vs frigates.
Really? I've just met a aurora who fired off all it's missiles at once, even though i was at high flux levels. (venture cruiser)
thanks to that, i owned it :D
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He said vs frigates. Venture is a cruiser. :)
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Really? I've just met a aurora who fired off all it's missiles at once, even though i was at high flux levels. (venture cruiser)
thanks to that, i owned it :D
Same was the thing when i met the aurora...
only that the Sunder class destroyer can't take 12 sabots XD
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Really? I've just met a aurora who fired off all it's missiles at once, even though i was at high flux levels. (venture cruiser)
thanks to that, i owned it :D
Same was the thing when i met the aurora...
only that the Sunder class destroyer can't take 12 sabots XD
Yeah, they tend to fail there xD, but watch it from the good side, atleast now you have a shuttle/dram/hound :D (oh, and i meant low flux levels on the prievous post)