Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ryan390 on July 22, 2018, 11:50:31 AM

Title: Terrible Game
Post by: Ryan390 on July 22, 2018, 11:50:31 AM
I can't believe how difficult the game is and how punishing the game is for every decision a player can make.
It could actually be really fun but no, the player is constantly stripped of all ships, due to clicking on the wrong piece of space or going down a wrong jump hole.

Missions are all pretty much the same, there doesn't seem to be any real aim after completing the tutorial mission.. Or Story, even after this many years in development..


 * There seems hardly any point in amassing a fleet and trying to fight pirates or anything, it always results in a loss of earnings, non profitable. *
Bounty hunting seems the only legit reason to even fight in this game, or to defend yourself, which is all the time..

Supplies are required way too much for everything, and are way too expensive to replace, doesn't make the game fun at all, it's just an outright chore to play..
So disappointing, I preferred the game in its early alpha, why have you had to make it so complicated and difficult to play?


This post from another fella also puts it quite well:

Quote
The ratio of cost/reward is horrificly unbalanced.  I slowly but surely get drained of resources to the point where I'm stuck in a random sector somewhere, out of fuel, and unable to do anything.  As you progress the AI ships and fleets get bigger and more powerful, requiring you to match or outmatch what you would normally encounter.  This means more resources, fuel, etc to keep playing the game.  Eventually those resources run dry.  There's no way to "farm" anything in this game, as every attempt you make after the first attempt yields less resources at a heavier resource drain to do said farming.

I've been waiting for an update that alleviates this.  I've had SS sitting on my desktop, staring me in the face, saying "hey, play me".  But I put about 20 hours into this game the first month I picked it up, and haven't played it since.  As it stands, if this game were on steam, I would give it a negative review.  I feel like I threw $20 away on a game that is so punishingly hard, the mechanics make it so that you are beaten down to the point of defeat just as you are getting your feet off the ground.  The push to constantly explore new sectors, that get farther and farther away, at the increased cost of fuel and resources, only to find nothing in those sectors, really makes it so that you can never beat this game.  It is literally impossible to beat this game.  And I don't want the hardcore super experienced players say "just keep playing it".  I'm telling you, as a newbie to this game, I find it unplayable, and I have put it down months ago and haven't come back to it.


Of course, fan boy hate is incoming, surely other people must experience this?





 
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: SCC on July 22, 2018, 12:25:20 PM
I'm pretty sure you can check that thread which is thematically very similar and that has tips for Starsector that would probably help you as well... I mean, more than just the first post.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: BillyRueben on July 22, 2018, 12:41:54 PM
I'm pretty sure you can check that thread which is thematically very similar and that has tips for Starsector that would probably help you as well... I mean, more than just the first post.

Awwww, does that mean we can't turn this in to a three page thread defending the game and/or telling the OP to git gud? Bummer.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Piemanlives on July 22, 2018, 12:47:30 PM
I'm pretty sure you can check that thread which is thematically very similar and that has tips for Starsector that would probably help you as well... I mean, more than just the first post.

Awwww, does that mean we can't turn this in to a three page thread defending the game and/or telling the OP to git gud? Bummer.
I mean... we definitely could. But is anyone really willing to put in the effort to do so?
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Ryan390 on July 22, 2018, 01:09:24 PM
Well that would just be a cop-out wouldn't it..

If a customer walks into a restaurant, sits down and pays for a meal which he find unsatisfactory, what would you do as the restaurant owner?
Throw the food in his face or offer a reasonable explanation?
I don't think offering a 'git good' explanation would be sufficient for a customer who's just paid for a service / item. 

Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength. 
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.

I'm sure that are other ways, but there's a small number of actual successful ways to make money it seems.
The real currency in the game appears to be supplies though, they are required for far too many actions and extremely costly to replace in bulk.

The fear of actually making any meaningful decision in iron man mode seems to just be punished by losing supplies at a rate of knots..
Once your supplies are gone you dig into your wallet to replace them, rinse / repeat.



Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Piemanlives on July 22, 2018, 01:29:47 PM
To be more serious though the difficulty curve of .8.X is... well it isn't really good at all. After you complete the tutorial (If you did it at all) there really isn't any guiding hand to, at the very least, explain what the hell you should be doing at any given moment. And while .9 gives purpose to exploration and fleet building .8... doesn't. Not one bit. And if .9 has what you're looking for in this game you will have to wait because none of those mechanics are in the game right now.

Though to actually address your points:
Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength.
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.
Combat: This is an odd one, combat really doesn't have much purpose unless you're deliberately looking for something to kill. If you want combat to have more purpose I would recommend looking at the Nexerelin mod which is about conquering the sector from the various factions vanilla or otherwise. But that really relies on you being interested in using mods in the first place.

Trade: As it is trade really isn't a good way to make money in the .8 dev cycle. Sector economy is just... well... It's kinda borked and while it's possible to make money it really takes more effort than it should. Trade missions nominally alleviate this but trade as you go doesn't really do much profit wise. .9 has another economy overhaul so hopefully that gets better as time goes on.

Scavenge/Exploration: Definitely more profitable if you can make it to the outer portions of the sector and back.

Station Building/Industry: Doesn't exist in the .8 dev cycle if you're looking for it wait for .9. The industry skill tree as it exists in .8 is there to aid exploration and derelict scavenging.

Now some would definitely disagree but .8 really is just a platform for the Nexerelin mod, despite the addition of exploration mechanics and what you can find out in the outer portions of the sector .8 really doesn't have much to offer from a campaign perspective, especially when compared to earlier versions of the game. It's definitely feels more like a jumping off point for later game mechanics (and the coming mechanics are looking really really good) but because of that what mechanics that were introduced .8 feel incomplete with little purpose to them.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Twogs on July 22, 2018, 01:31:35 PM
Well that would just be a cop-out wouldn't it..

If a customer walks into a restaurant, sits down and pays for a meal which he find unsatisfactory, what would you do as the restaurant owner?
Throw the food in his face or offer a reasonable explanation?
I don't think offering a 'git good' explanation would be sufficient for a customer who's just paid for a service / item. 

Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength. 
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.

I'm sure that are other ways, but there's a small number of actual successful ways to make money it seems.
The real currency in the game appears to be supplies though, they are required for far too many actions and extremely costly to replace in bulk.

The fear of actually making any meaningful decision in iron man mode seems to just be punished by losing supplies at a rate of knots..
Once your supplies are gone you dig into your wallet to replace them, rinse / repeat.

I guess your main mistake was getting to big too soon (otherwise supplies are rarely a problem).
Really try to keep it small, max destroyers, fast fleet. Can defeat anything thats faster, is faster than anything that could defeat it.
Played til far into the end game with just a small destroyer fleet. Try this maybe.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: CaptainWinky on July 22, 2018, 01:37:23 PM
Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength. 
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.

I'm sure that are other ways, but there's a small number of actual successful ways to make money it seems.
The real currency in the game appears to be supplies though, they are required for far too many actions and extremely costly to replace in bulk.

The fear of actually making any meaningful decision in iron man mode seems to just be punished by losing supplies at a rate of knots..
Once your supplies are gone you dig into your wallet to replace them, rinse / repeat.

Getting your fleet large enough to handle pirate patrols is the toughest part of the early game IMO.  Until then, you can tag along with bigger friendly fleets and help them with fights--like help Hegemony fleets in Corvus so that you can take advantage of the first systemwide bounty offered by Jangala at the start of the game.  You get less post-battle salvage immediately after battles, but you can stay and salvage the debris field afterward.

Scavenging and surveying in remote systems does require some initial investment (freighters to haul the loot, tankers to haul enough fuel for all your ships to get there and back, then the cost of the fuel and supplies) but if you can get several missions in the same direction it becomes very profitable as you only pay expenses for one trip but get multiple mission payouts.

Trading is currently not a great way to make money unless you count food shortages.  You're not missing anything with outpost building BTW, that is not implemented in 0.8 but will be in the upcoming 0.9 release.  I believe 0.9 will improve on trading as well.

I don't think many people currently use ironman mode.  I definitely don't, because while it can be fun to deal with the consequences of an unexpected defeat, it can also be very frustrating to (for instance) enter hyperspace and bump into a giant hostile fleet that happens to be entering that jump point but decides to stop and wreck you.

BTW for supplies and fuel: Chicomoztoc for supplies, Sindria for fuel.  Low-stability markets may sell these commodities for lower prices.  Also don't be afraid to use the black market to avoid huge tariffs, especially if the market is owned by a faction you don't deal with often.  If you don't have anything outright illegal they can't do much to you other than give you a rep hit.  Get in, get the cheap goods, get out and leave the spacecops eating your exhaust.  Going to a smaller low-stability market, snapping up their guaranteed 50 supplies and 50 fuel in the black market, then leaving scot-free because they don't have patrols to deal with you is great in the early game.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Thaago on July 22, 2018, 01:42:36 PM
Well there is a reason there is an easy mode and that you can save/load as often as you like.

To give you the flip side: as a veteran who likes the combat tree, I make a reasonable profit from non-bounty, non-commission fights - if I am spending more supplies in the fight than I get as loot (without any loot boosting skills) then I screwed up (which does happen - not pretending to be all powerful here). If I have a bounty or a commission I can grow the fleet rapidly. However, I do still lose the occasional ship or have to retreat my fleet from an ambush. Without those hard bits, it would be completely boring for me.

Starter tips:
1) Do the tutorials.
2) Do a few missions to get a feel for combat. Tip: you can refit these ships with whatever weapons you like, so play around!
3) Start the game with the tutorial. This works you up to small sized fleet rather than a single ship. Follow the directions and go to Corvus! There is a system wide bounty there at the start of the game that will give you a ready source of income.
4) Join battles. If you see a big battle between pirates and a faction, join in. This is a good way to experience larger fights, is almost completely risk free, and give you both income and reputation.
5) Look for exploration missions at planets. If you can get 2 or 3 of them in the same quadrant, you can make a very large profit in addition to whatever goodies (research stations, high class planet surveys, etc) you find out there. (Buy a Dram for fuel.)


[Edit] I do run ironman mode, and I do sometimes get my ass kicked. It makes things more... spicy. (I also don't really go for rare ships/hoarding so I don't mind very much.)

[Double Edit] I forgot the most important combat tip!! Learn when to lower your shield. First step is to lower the shield to incoming kinetic damage (of small caliber) to win the flux war. Second step is much harder: when to lower the shield and take significant damage to overload/maim/kill a priority target.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: stormbringer951 on July 22, 2018, 02:47:53 PM
The new player experience in Starsector is a work in progress (campaign tutorial only got added in 0.8). The game's difficulty is front-loaded, certain mechanics that appear low key (logistics and sensor mechanics) can make the game dramatically harder for the new player, and there isn't a difficulty-gated safe shallow area of the sandbox for new players to get their feet wet in.

The game should probably teach players at least the stuff in HELMUT's tutorial (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13115.0), which is up to date and offers a collection of very helpful guidelines to make the beginning of the game and learning the ropes in the campaign smoother.

Starter tips:

To add to Thaago's list, the newbie mistakes I notice most often from people posting on the Discord:

- Weak grasp on how combat mechanics function and which parts of them are extremely important. I'm surprised how many new players don't know the difference between soft and hard flux, which may be one of the most important distinctions in the game, along with what kinetic/HE/energy damage types mean.
- Mismanagement of logistics will creep up on you. It's very easy to grow your fleet too fast and bankrupt yourself.
- Not understanding the crucial role of transponder and terrain in determining when enemies can see you. Keeping transponder switched off when jumping into hyperspace or while in hyperspace alone increases survivability by a ton.
- Not knowing what to do after starting the game. The game should hint to players that salvaging/exploration is the easiest and least risky, bounty hunting is the most lucrative, trading is slow and not very profitable to just buy high/sell low when you factor in fuel cost, you have to look for shortages/crises or delivery missions.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Morbo513 on July 22, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
* There seems hardly any point in amassing a fleet and trying to fight pirates or anything, it always results in a loss of earnings, non profitable. *
Bounty hunting seems the only legit reason to even fight in this game, or to defend yourself, which is all the time..
You know I didn't think I'd find myself agreeing with someone who's basically ***-talking one of my favourite games. But try Nexerelin, it really expands the scope of what you can do, and makes the universe much more dynamic.

That said there's a lot of people coming out the woodwork criticising the game for its difficulty. Adapt and overcome. Savescum while you learn the mechanics and best routes of profitability. Spec into Industry and use scrap-ball fleets where losses hurt nowhere near as bad, and are more easily replenished.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Igncom1 on July 22, 2018, 06:12:27 PM
Early game is hard but that's why I always go for the salvaging? and field repair skills in industry. As well as playing on easy.

For all the free extra/saved loot that makes fighting pirates almost always profitable and simply lets me carry on my way doing whatever it is that I want. I'd highly reccormend it if all you wanna do is brawl!

Ultimately however if you want to return the product and get a refund I'd contact support and ask there.
Of course the forum of a game is going to be filled with people who like a game. It's why we are all here.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Psycho Society on July 23, 2018, 12:03:03 AM
uh..... lol. This game isn't hard at all.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Grievous69 on July 23, 2018, 12:18:23 AM
Tbh I think it's more of a thing that pretty much every game nowadays holds your hand and tells you what do to constantly. I'm not calling anyone dumb but it's a thing I noticed over the years. Even in other games people don't notice the most obvious thing just because the game doesn't explicitly say that to them. As others have already said this is frustrating in this game because you get punished hard before you learn the mechanics properly. Only thing that's terrible is playing on ironman the first time.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Goumindong on July 23, 2018, 12:27:58 AM
If you’re having trouble finding fights where you can make money (without bounties) consider deploying fewer ships and making sure you don’t run out of CR. That way you minimize your cost. Player piloted ships are most efficient at this though by spending combat skills there you will be less powerful against latetame fleets.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Sutopia on July 23, 2018, 03:05:33 AM
Gah, try 0.72 lol, .8 is WAY easier than pre-.8 eras.

Have you been through both combat AND campaign tutorials?
Well a nice tip I can give you is CARRIERs rock, so do TEMPESTs.
When doing exploring missions, please really DO SOME exploration, there are probes that can easily gain you a HELL lota fuel and supply.
Always turn OFF transponder in hyper space, prevent drawing attention from whatever looks dangerous, including scavengers.
Rest should be ... easy.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on July 23, 2018, 03:16:58 AM
Purchased this game when it was still Starfarer and all you could do was jaunt around one system with tri-tachyon, hegemony, and pirates running about. Thought it was pretty sick then.

Fast forward to 2018, I remember that this was a thing and came back to it. I estimate spending maybe 4-5 hours "spinning my wheels" when I began again. Mostly just re-familiarization and figuring out combat mechanics. Didn't bother with any tutorials, myself. I suppose I've got a pretty high tolerance for failure in video games, especially compared to a lot of other folk. As long as it ain't glaringly obvious that something's *** up with the game, I must've failed for a reason and figuring that out is part of the fun.

Really though, once I sorted out that the first 50 or so in-game days should be spent taking on small pirate fleets in Corvus for the default bounty starting there (no commission), parsed through what sorts of ships I can sustain with how many supplies etc, figured out that putting early skills in certain tech and most industry is very useful for building a fleet, the beginning of the game is pretty easy.

These days I'm playing Nexerelin with most of the well-polished mods and almost always use a free start with only single frigate. It ain't that bad.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: stormbringer951 on July 23, 2018, 05:40:23 AM
A lot of the difficulty new players encounter is information-based, rather than skill/execution-based. I don't think the difficulty resulting from some common misunderstandings of the importance of certain game mechanics them is part of the intended vision of the game, or adds to the experience in a meaningful way.

E.g. quite how dramatically terrain, transponder status and active abilities affects detection range. This specific example is an area where I think the tutorial can improve, since IMO the stealth assassination tutorial mission that used to be in the Steiner Foundation mod was better at testing if players grasped how to not be detected.

There are things the players can discover for themselves, like specific strategies and optimisations, but basic information about game mechanics needs to be presented with strong emphasis on which points are very important. Even something like the transponder reminders (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13380.0) mini-mod is very helpful for new players in hinting at what they should probably be doing with their transponder.

Gah, try 0.72 lol, .8 is WAY easier than pre-.8 eras.

Have you been through both combat AND campaign tutorials?
Well a nice tip I can give you is CARRIERs rock, so do TEMPESTs.
When doing exploring missions, please really DO SOME exploration, there are probes that can easily gain you a HELL lota fuel and supply.
Always turn OFF transponder in hyper space, prevent drawing attention from whatever looks dangerous, including scavengers.
Rest should be ... easy.

IMO 0.52 to 0.54 was pretty easy. Pick off lone buffalos or 2-3 frigate fleets with your starting frigate, get 20k credits to buy and fit out a Hyperion (this was before CR :D ) from the TT station and then farm hostile fleets over and over.

Exploration does seem nice for new players though. Helps them to more or less safely build a fleet that can get on the bounty progression chain and start growing fast, even if they are personally not great at combat.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Sutopia on July 23, 2018, 07:00:56 AM
A lot of the difficulty new players encounter is information-based, rather than skill/execution-based. I don't think the difficulty resulting from some common misunderstandings of the importance of certain game mechanics them is part of the intended vision of the game, or adds to the experience in a meaningful way.

E.g. quite how dramatically terrain, transponder status and active abilities affects detection range. This specific example is an area where I think the tutorial can improve, since IMO the stealth assassination tutorial mission that used to be in the Steiner Foundation mod was better at testing if players grasped how to not be detected.

There are things the players can discover for themselves, like specific strategies and optimisations, but basic information about game mechanics needs to be presented with strong emphasis on which points are very important. Even something like the transponder reminders (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13380.0) mini-mod is very helpful for new players in hinting at what they should probably be doing with their transponder.

Gah, try 0.72 lol, .8 is WAY easier than pre-.8 eras.

Have you been through both combat AND campaign tutorials?
Well a nice tip I can give you is CARRIERs rock, so do TEMPESTs.
When doing exploring missions, please really DO SOME exploration, there are probes that can easily gain you a HELL lota fuel and supply.
Always turn OFF transponder in hyper space, prevent drawing attention from whatever looks dangerous, including scavengers.
Rest should be ... easy.

IMO 0.52 to 0.54 was pretty easy. Pick off lone buffalos or 2-3 frigate fleets with your starting frigate, get 20k credits to buy and fit out a Hyperion (this was before CR :D ) from the TT station and then farm hostile fleets over and over.

Exploration does seem nice for new players though. Helps them to more or less safely build a fleet that can get on the bounty progression chain and start growing fast, even if they are personally not great at combat.

Oh, I started off by .652 and.... I tried NOT exploiting the food runs, painful.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Megas on July 23, 2018, 10:28:19 AM
Gah, try 0.72 lol, .8 is WAY easier than pre-.8 eras.
I find 0.8 tougher because 1) level scaling bounties that make it hard to catch up and 2) no more overpowered skills that let player solo everything with an Onslaught or other overpowered hull. 3) AI became big cowards like Spathi and run away and drag out fights as long as possible.  Also, trade broke sometime between 0.7 and 0.8.  Until later 0.8 releases, I could support myself by killing stray pirates and bounty fleets.  (In 0.65, food runs replaced combat as the cash cow.)  Now, stray pirates (for system bounties) are rare, and named bounties level up as you do, and you level up very fast, meaning bounties get bigger and better fleets faster than you can obtain them.

Quote
A lot of the difficulty new players encounter is information-based, rather than skill/execution-based.
The info I had most difficulty when I started Starfarer was with soft and hard flux and beams only hit for soft flux instead of hard flux done by every other weapon.  Flux differences explained by the tutorial can be easily overlooked, and tiny needle that represents hard flux is too easy to miss (small and same color as rest of flux bar).
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Daquan_Baton on July 28, 2018, 08:19:01 PM
I can't believe how difficult the game is and how punishing the game is for every decision a player can make.
It could actually be really fun but no, the player is constantly stripped of all ships, due to clicking on the wrong piece of space or going down a wrong jump hole.

Missions are all pretty much the same, there doesn't seem to be any real aim after completing the tutorial mission.. Or Story, even after this many years in development..


 * There seems hardly any point in amassing a fleet and trying to fight pirates or anything, it always results in a loss of earnings, non profitable. *
Bounty hunting seems the only legit reason to even fight in this game, or to defend yourself, which is all the time..

Supplies are required way too much for everything, and are way too expensive to replace, doesn't make the game fun at all, it's just an outright chore to play..
So disappointing, I preferred the game in its early alpha, why have you had to make it so complicated and difficult to play?


Well fanboy warning...

If you would actually put in the work towards thinking, adjusting yourself to the game's play style or bettering your overall skill rather than wasting it on complaining you could simply reduce the cost of supplies and fuel, maximum stack size and much more by going into the files and adjusting it to your liking or realize that clearly you need to acknowledge that this game requires better micromanaging than whatever you're going by.

Things you can adjust in the game files that I can come up with on the spot:
Supply cost
Fuel cost
Maximum stack size
Bounty strength relative to your fleet
Bounty density
Bounty frequency
Bounty reward ranges, etc.
Detection range
"Going Dark" effectiveness
Maximum speed (Sustained Burn or not)
Faction relationships
ALL stats of EVERY ship

What you can do in-game instead of tinkering with the files are putting the necessary amount of ships into battle (you don't need a cruiser for 3 frigates), you must realize that ships have recovery costs and putting something with a 30 supply recovery cost into a battle where the combined ships' recovery cost doesn't even add up to what you're sending in. Also, just like real life, stay in your price range, if you're just starting out and you can afford to BUY and awesome huge ship, that doesn't mean you should because chances are, you won't be able to MAINTAIN it, you've got to be confident in your consistent income before you can take your steps up to making it big time in this. This game like 50% micromanaging, if you can't handle the heat go play Starbound or something.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: eidolad on July 29, 2018, 06:45:59 AM
I respectfully ask if the OP can adjust the Subject line of the post to something along the lines of "difficulty in starting, please help".  Feel free to adjust the new title to something that expresses the intense frustration of the unforgiving sandbox that StarSector is at the very beginning.

Certainly after some sleep the OP should realize that Star Sector is anything but terrible even now...two or three versions away from final release.

An example of "rage-quitting and then writing about it" is not productive. 

I too had a very rough first few hours, cursed for two minutes straight like the Chief Petty Officer taught me, and came up for breath and realized a) that there are significant mechanics going on and b) this game project is a work in progress, chill and c) if I read a fair amount of the forum, sleep on it and return, I will prosper. 

Yes, I still start with a single frigate and "run or die", a lot at the beginning.  And the middle.  Maybe because I tend to keep piloting the frigate until my fleet has enough overall weight for me to change classes.  But I've learned to run my operation conservatively within the boundaries of my income potential.  Add a ship continue, add a ship, etc.

To anyone who doesn't understand the destructive power of poorly considered, public, negative reviews of people's love-work (yes, I imagine this dev is likely gainfully employed doing real stuff somewhere for some boring financial tech project etc. etc.)...just take a look at what happened with Space Pirates and Zombies 2...

...the devs, facing a constant barrage of repeated "this game sucks" from posters who didn't bother to read a few forum pages and came to complain yet again about the exact same issue 20 other people had pointed out and had received dev feedback...

...have basically stopped working on a 4+ year project that could be turned around with some focus, motivation and re-work in a sequel.  So we all lose.

(actually I myself am doing boring dev work for a finTech project and wishing I had the motivation to create the work that is StarSector on my spare time.  But I don't have the built-in Temporal Flux chamber that this dev appears to have to a) do a real job b) live a life and c) advance a project like StarSector to it's current state)
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: xenoargh on July 29, 2018, 08:49:00 AM
While I heartily agree that there are major problems with the game's difficulty ramp that we've been talking about (rather than "git gud") for a few years now, that part of the game keeps moving around as the major pieces get completed.  When we're a little closer to Gold, it's really going to be time to figure that out.

A few obvious solutions for now:

1.  Adjust the core difficulty by modding the game a little.

Open up \Program Files (x86)\Fractal Softworks\Starsector\starsector-core\data\config  in File Explorer

Open up the file called settings.json

Edit this section.
Code
	#
# start difficulty config
#
"easyPlayerDamageDealtMult":1,
"easyPlayerDamageTakenMult":0.75,
"easySensorBonus":500,
"easySalvageMult":1.5,
"easyOfficerLevelMult":1,

#
# end difficulty config
#

Or download this mini-mod (http://www.wolfegames.com/TA_Section/EasyEasyMode.zip), that makes the combat 100% easier than default Easy.

2.  There are several mods that give you more ships at the start of the game; that makes the game considerably easier, in most respects.

3.  Try playing the Missions a few times.  They don't have the dynamic aspects of the Campaign battles, but they're a really good place to learn how to optimize your ships.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Tellaris on August 02, 2018, 04:37:06 PM
So a lot of these people are giving general advice or just talking down, in a not particularly nice way, but aren't really suggesting what you do.

At the start, you're weak and crap. Unless you're really good with combat (A new player won't be) you can't even tackle the weakest enemy fleets you find.

All I do is follow Hegemony patrols early game. They don't have to be big patrols, they just have to be big enough. Do what the AI does. If they turn and flee, do the same. If they engage, usually they think they can win. Here is where you join in.

Stay near the larger AI ships until you are more confident. The AI may be cowardly, but it generally doesn't get itself completely wrecked. And if you get in to trouble, it generally does try to help you, if it thinks it can. When you get more confidence in your abilities, try working with an AI frigate. Stay close to them, and go after whom they go after.

I've found that I've made some extremely stupid mistakes at times... but an AI frigate or an AI carrier will rush in and bail my butt out if they see me backing away. I've taken a fair share of missiles/torpedoes to the face while maxed out on flux, and paid for it with my life. I've also had more than a few times when an AI frigate, or an AI carrier deciding to toss its fighters on me, saved my life by getting in the way of the salvo and eating it or PDing it. Generally the AI isn't consistent enough to rely on this 100% of the time, but its helpful.

Once I've gotten 2 or 3 frigates, I start going after the smaller fleets solo. This is where you start making your money in combat. You get money/wreckage and sometimes more ships from the combat. DMods are a pain in the butt, but an extra frigate is an extra frigate. And so long as you fight pirates, they have D mods too, so it just means a more even playing field. Work your way up to a destroyer (or if you're lucky, you'll find a free one!) and keep climbing that ladder. Don't be afraid to sell a ship you don't like. Don't be afraid to fix the Dmods if you find you have enough cash. Take everything, sell it at Jangala. I'll quite often go over my freight limit if I'm close to Jangala or the neutral planet that I can immediately offload the extra crap to.

You won't make a ton of money, but you'll not be poor.

When your rep is high enough, consider taking a commission with the Hedgemony. The money you get for killing things really helps keep you going. And if there is a bounty in system? All the better.

Eventually the pirates in Corvus WILL run low. You will find fleets that simply aren't worth your time to bother with, consisting of maybe 1 or 2 ships. Its at this point that I start to look elsewhere for my prey... Since you have Hedgemony commission, you can start hunting down those Tri-Tachyon bastards that the Hedgemony is perpetually at war with.
And start taking their delicious, expensive ships for yourself.

Also, the best piece of advice I can give: Save before every fight. I've won some pretty... Shady fights by save scumming until I won. I'm not afraid to admit that.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on August 02, 2018, 07:34:54 PM
If you want responses, troll titles are a good way to get them. Nothing generates emotional investment faster, especially on the internet, where the default is a blind rage so constipated that you can imagine poopy tears welling up in a poster's eyes.

I don't think the game has ever had forgiving starts, but it's had unforgiving starts with less stuff to track, and right now that's a major barrier; you get your hindquarters kicked a lot, and you have to split your attention a lot while you do it. Either would be acceptable; both isn't, really. But that's beta!
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: mangalore on August 15, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
... Don't be afraid to fix the Dmods if you find you have enough cash. ...

That's kind of a good point by the OP. Wait, what? You can fix DMods?! Never knew that play this on and off for years...

I feel the game could bother with more Nexerlin like starting conditions. I usually jump to a start with destroyer simply because I feel the grind from frigate to there wastes my time and I want to have fun. Imo combat and options like trade etc. become much more viable at that stage.

Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: boogada on August 15, 2018, 08:17:28 AM
Why do so many say a thing is terrible, when they mean to say "I'm terrible at this thing and don't care to bother getting good."
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: pigreko on August 16, 2018, 12:19:02 PM
My 2 cents to this discussion: it should not be there at all (at least in this tones)

The game is in development. We paid to get in before release (for whatever reason) and we got to be part of an ongoing process of unofficial playtesting, to give feedback, and (hopefully) have fun; each one of us with a different grade of engagement, with modders being incredibly productive and over the top participative.

Now, being in development means that new mechanics get introduced and tested with each release, so the game we bought keeps changing and changing, leading to iterations of it that MAY very well not be of our liking... and it is perfectly normal. At that point, if we feel compelled, we give developers (and everyone else) feedback on our experience. The key word here is EXPERIENCE; because saying stuff "game is hard", "the campaign does not feel interesting", not only are too vague, but are also not helping. It is like saying in the early alpha stages, with only combat mechanics introduced, that "the game is shallow".

You should stop treating each release as a feature complete game, as said, there is nothing dramatic in not liking a specific version; sometimes the easiest solution to this feeling of detachment is to wait to thing to get more flashed in later releases, or OR play the game modded as you like it.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Heatextend on August 19, 2018, 05:39:28 PM
Couldn't resist registering after reading OP
THIS GAME IS FUGGIN' GREAT, BEST SPACE RANGERS CLONE EVAR
that will be all  :-*
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Malvorn on February 11, 2020, 12:59:43 PM
lol mate! You might be the worst gamer ever.
I have like 30m$+80ships(in dock)+10planets+no idea how many alpha and beta cores and i can disintegrate any fleet without manually control anything.
My planets are so capable, i dont even care about the enemy.
At home all the systems are scattered with enemy direlicts.
I reached all this by reading forums, trying out builds, tactics etc.
I dont even have good gamer reflexes. I just learning the game and during the process i love every minutes of it!
This game is already an unpolished diamond.
Best starship battle game ever!
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Grievous69 on February 11, 2020, 01:14:02 PM
Mate this topic is year and a half old, the game was different then. Besides, necroing is against the rules, I don't even know how people stumble upon ancient texts.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Aereto on February 11, 2020, 01:22:49 PM
Mate this topic is year and a half old, the game was different then. Besides, necroing is against the rules, I don't even know how people stumble upon ancient texts.
Someone had the Necronomicon. But yeah, old post is old, and let's leave it at that. And I once been in this forum almost 5-8 years ago, no less.
Title: Re: Terrible Game
Post by: Alex on February 11, 2020, 01:25:12 PM
Yeah, necroing is against the forum rules; going to lock this.