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Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: MajorTheRed on October 23, 2017, 03:36:08 PM



Title: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on October 23, 2017, 03:36:08 PM
Hello guys,

Here is a mod I put together recently. It’s based on personal needs for specific ships to fill in gaps I experienced when playing Starsector. Initially this is a personal project, but since I receive much precious help on the forum, I figure it would be nice to publish it.

The theme:
Starsector has some inspiration in Battletech universe, which is a dystopic sci fi setting where there is plenty of technology but nobody understand it or is able to emulate it. This inspired me as I was thinking that there was lacks of ships filling several role of faction. I was also inspired by the blog post about the history of the sector.
I wanted to create ships based on needs of each faction, but which are limited by their actual ability to design new ships. This means that most of them don't have fancy ship system or they have a specific role and are not always able to cop with vanilla ships.

Recap
•   24 new ships (including 8 kitbash, 9 conversions and 7 original sprites
•   5 skins
•   8 new weapons
•   3 new stellar systems with 7 new markets
•   Luddic faction expanded

Aim of the mod
•   Add several ships for more variety in specific role currently lacking in vanilla (scout, science vessel, high tech light carrier…)
•   Give more flavor to Persean League and Luddic Church fleets by adding ships specific to these factions.
•   As a long term goal, balance number of ships designs according to tech level (i.e. more low tech frigate and mid tech capital), as well as some new weapons

Disclaimer
•   I never done spriting before, some of the ships ar kitbashed and other are build from scratch. I prefer to come back later to them instead of waiting the sprites to be « perfect » to publish it. They could be improved, but for now I want to have several « ok » ships than just one or two « good » ships.
•   I did the best to balance ships with vanilla, but if someone think a ship should be nerfed or bousted, he is more than welcome.
•   English is not my first language, I did my best but there will probably (certainly…) remains typos in texts.
•   Many ships have a similar role to ones you can found in Disassemble Reassemble mod by AxleMC131 (most notably the Revenant and the Hoplite). It was not intended, as I’ve already draw prototype of ships before knowing this mod. In fact I suspect that AxleMC131 created his mod with the same premice than me : filling in gap in available ships in vanilla. I suggest playing this mod with Disassemble – Assemble as they both share similar aims : news ships to fill in vanilla gaps.

Acknowledgment :
•   To AxleMC131, for giving advice for spriting and giving motivations by its mod DisassembleReassemble (that you should try!)
•   To King Alfonzo, for giving a nice tuto on « greebling »
•   To Sarissofoi, for refusing to play anything without a description

Download it there :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/lstl934h3b2il8p/Stop_Gap_Measure_v0.62.rar/file

Ships

(https://i.imgur.com/qiVpUSz.png)
Dove :
Courrier and scout

(https://i.imgur.com/UUr2P3v.png)
Traverse :
Civilian freighter

(https://i.imgur.com/z9JorVk.png)
Chondrite:
Tri-Tachyon freighter

(https://i.imgur.com/UgNeJAA.png)
Pyrphoros :
Pirate frigate

(https://i.imgur.com/zcTP7og.png)
Huntsman :
Luddic Church and Hegemony Support gunship (upgraded sprite)

(https://i.imgur.com/K1aNbpm.png)   (https://i.imgur.com/9vHxFbf.png)
Carcajou :
Heavy Try-Tachyon Frigate (and deserter)

(https://i.imgur.com/1xvQqW9.png)   (https://i.imgur.com/oAacpef.png)
Hoplite :
Mass produced PL frigate (and pirate version)

(https://i.imgur.com/TV2MZ5X.png)
Martyr:
Knights of Ludd defense frigate (upgraded sprite)
         
(https://i.imgur.com/AMxqtQc.png)
Templar :
Knights of Ludd missile destroyer   

(https://i.imgur.com/uHeOQtf.png)
Crusader :
Knights of Ludd artillery destroyer   

(https://i.imgur.com/2R9Cjrj.png)
Hammerhead (CGR)
Knights of Ludd destroyer   

(https://i.imgur.com/2WC0sfv.png)
Ballista :
Missile Destoyer

(https://i.imgur.com/oUoJotG.png)
Pyrrhocorax :
Try-Tachyon support destroyer/light carrier

(https://i.imgur.com/o0F9v5W.png)
Minos :
High-tech defense destroyer

(https://i.imgur.com/uggAIJD.png)   (https://i.imgur.com/lUkvR3y.png)
Copernic :
Science vessel (support ship) and converted pirate carrier (upgraded sprite)

(https://i.imgur.com/TrO7S3l.png)
Tantive:
A high-tech combat freighter
      
(https://i.imgur.com/qwHQ00I.png)
Arbitrator:
Hegemony and Luddic Church Patrol/escort cruiser

(https://i.imgur.com/n8spGFc.png)
Herder:
Light carrier

(https://i.imgur.com/N2GXBRJ.png)   (https://i.imgur.com/4Ur36vY.png)
Opportunity :
Pirate (and shadowy neutral) converted heavy cruiser

(https://i.imgur.com/PvAsisH.png)   (https://i.imgur.com/ralfPaj.png)
Wagner :
Neutral line (or light) cruiser and pirate version

(https://i.imgur.com/DvpinJc.png)
Foundation :
Salvage cruiser

(https://i.imgur.com/t7IJxEq.png)
Cathar :
Knights of Ludd heavy cruiser

(https://i.imgur.com/kXYPIFX.png)
Starblazer :
Converted carrier

(https://i.imgur.com/58Bm0U9.png)
Triumph :
Midline battlecarrier

Weapons

Ballistic

(https://i.imgur.com/2cKai9b.jpg)
Scattergun: higher range PDS

(https://i.imgur.com/fY4MLBV.jpg)
Coilgun: high explosive ancestor of the railgun

(https://i.imgur.com/ooJbr8N.jpg)
Mosychlos burst assault gun: two light assault gun firing in salvo at higher range with poor accuracy

Energy

(https://i.imgur.com/9opxBhz.jpg)
Plasma caster: salvo energy gun

(https://i.imgur.com/yD4knIK.jpg)
Charged laser: old school laser canon. Better range than pulse laser, way worst flux

(https://i.imgur.com/fXpgzFB.jpg)
Plasma surge: AoE PDS. Good against missile swarms, not so good against fighter

Missile

(https://i.imgur.com/ibiHGjN.jpg)
Saturation launcher: poor aimed frag missile. Fired in volley. Good for pursuit and harassment.

(https://i.imgur.com/PzV337K.png)
Energy cruise-missile. Come in 2 mounts (single and 3 mounts)



Log


v0.61
-Added the Starblazer carrier
-Added a medium ballistic and a small missile weapon
-Added description to all weapons and ships
-Added several variants for vanilla ships
-Variants and factions files cleaned up
-Fix errors in price and descriptions
-Balanced cargo values for small freighters and OP for Arbitrator

v0.6
-Added the Pyrphoros and the Minos
-New stellar system
-Fixed some minor things on the Wagner and Ballista
-Fixed prices for ships
-Updated lore for several ships and missions
-Fixed several orbits in Utic and Byzas systems

v0.4
-Resolved several errors on Ballista, Hoplite (P) and Tantive
-Added the Triumph and the Cathar
-Huntsman gets the Fire control ship system
-3 Missions
-2 new solar systems

v0.31
-Added Pirate Wagner
-Upgraded sprites for Copernic, Martyr and Huntsman
-Add Ballista (destroyer)
-Added codex entry for 9 ships and all weapons
-Added Lopot cruise-missile

v0.3
-Added Herder (ligh carrier), Wagner (cruiser) and Chondrite (freighter)
-Added 3 weapons
-Changed some error on ship files

v0.2
-Changed conflicting class-names
-Added Dove (scout vessel) and Carcajou (sister class of the Scarab)
-Added skin for Hoplite, Opportunity and Carcajou
-Upgraded sprites for Copernic, Hoplite.

Future objectives:
-New ships :
    -ECM destroyer
-New weapons
    -Energy small missile
    -Mounts for Lotop and saturation (medium and/or large)
-Sprite remake
    -Copernic
    -Tantive


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: lechibang on October 29, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
Cool, looking forward for new content from you. In addition, I'm currently doing my own ship pack for starsector here: https://bitbucket.org/lechibang/spiral-arms-ship-pack using sprites taken from the sprite dump thread, but it's not currently getting anywhere just yet. :'(


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: AxleMC131 on October 30, 2017, 12:25:37 AM
Looks like you're off to a decent start Major!  ;) And you are right, DaRa aims (just like SWP) to fill in certain niche roles that the stock game seems to be lacking ships for, as well as adding some unique content that perhaps other players or modders had never considered before.



Now, do bear in mind that I have not played or even downloaded your mod yet, but I thought I'd give some immediate feedback, as useful resources per se.

First and foremost, if you aren't already on it, don't forget that Starsector has an "unofficial" Discord channel were a large portion of the community gather to discuss the game, including basically all of the big modders. It's a great place to discuss ideas, hear direct feedback and also learn techniques and skills for modding in general.
(Relevant link: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11488.0 )

Second, I notice that a few of your ships share class names with ships from other mods. This is generally bad practise, and can often cause confusion for players and sometimes - worst case scenario - game crashes, when two mods are using the same file names for two different ships. To avoid this, there's a helpful database of ship, weapon, faction, hullmod, system, etc. names used in most mods. If you come up with a name for a ship, it's always a good idea to check there first and make sure it's not already used.
(Relevant link: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9550.0 )

Anyway, that's all I can say from my current standpoint. Spriting is extremely hard and you're very much a beginner, so I'm not going to judge any of your ship sprites here, but if you are looking for help in that regard, again do come to the Discord channel and ask for assistance. Basically everyone there will be willing to provide assistance - including yours truly if you happen to be in the right timezone, hehe!  8)


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on October 30, 2017, 08:16:28 AM
Quote
In addition, I'm currently doing my own ship pack for starsector here: https://bitbucket.org/lechibang/spiral-arms-ship-pack using sprites taken from the sprite dump thread, but it's not currently getting anywhere just yet. Cry

Seriously, you should give it a try. Assembling the mod is not the hardest part, and it's probably one the funniest. In my case, after playing with AxleMC131 mod, it gives me encouragment to create mine. So I took its mod folder, and start removing files and folders I knew I would not need at the beginning (sounds, weapons....). Alex did a great job at making the game easy moddable. Most files are alterable with notepad, others are .csv and pretty self explainatory. Ship files and variants are easy to create with Trylobot shipyard software. Even the error log are ok to read.
(all that I said is when talking about just adding ships to the game. This is another reallity if you want to start creating new worlds, shipsystem, crasy graphic effects....)

Quote
First and foremost, if you aren't already on it, don't forget that Starsector has an "unofficial" Discord channel were a large portion of the community gather to discuss the game, including basically all of the big modders. It's a great place to discuss ideas, hear direct feedback and also learn techniques and skills for modding in general.
(Relevant link: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11488.0 )

...

Anyway, that's all I can say from my current standpoint. Spriting is extremely hard and you're very much a beginner, so I'm not going to judge any of your ship sprites here, but if you are looking for help in that regard, again do come to the Discord channel and ask for assistance. Basically everyone there will be willing to provide assistance - including yours truly if you happen to be in the right timezone, hehe!  Cool

Yeah, I'm starting to consider to join it. But, writing in english is something, speaking in a microphone and understanding other peolple is another thing. For the sprite, it even amaze me that I was able to try it and even publishing it. Still many things to learn, kitbashing is a little bit easier to do but not entirely satisfying....

Quote
Second, I notice that a few of your ships share class names with ships from other mods. This is generally bad practise, and can often cause confusion for players and sometimes - worst case scenario - game crashes, when two mods are using the same file names for two different ships. To avoid this, there's a helpful database of ship, weapon, faction, hullmod, system, etc. names used in most mods. If you come up with a name for a ship, it's always a good idea to check there first and make sure it's not already used.
(Relevant link: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9550.0 )

Ha! This was something I was espected to come across! Honestly I was pretty sure it would happen, but I didn't care at the moment because :1) I'm not expecting this mod becoming a top 1, 2) I didn't want to look for names of ships for every existing mod. I wasn't aware of this compilation file. Will do the necessary changes. Thanks!



Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: AxleMC131 on October 30, 2017, 10:31:18 PM

Yeah, I'm starting to consider to join it. But, writing in english is something, speaking in a microphone and understanding other peolple is another thing.


Oh, no one uses voice chat!  :P All the discussion takes place in the text chat.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Dudok22 on October 31, 2017, 11:28:57 AM
I really like the look of Revenant! I'll add this to my current modded campaign to try it out.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Schwartz on October 31, 2017, 12:14:11 PM
Those frigates and the Revenant look awesome. Nice job.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: gruberscomplete on October 31, 2017, 05:04:20 PM
Really like the original art-style of the Copernic and Bulwark. The opportunity looks like it would be interesting to blow up.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on November 01, 2017, 03:25:13 PM
New version available

http://www.mediafire.com/file/i7mb2mo5lbzmcsk/Stop_Gap_Measure_v0.2.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/file/i7mb2mo5lbzmcsk/Stop_Gap_Measure_v0.2.rar)

Most notably I added 2 new ships, 3 skins, and upgraded 2 sprites, while changing names for several ships.

Also, it would be really nice if someone tried it and have thoughts on balance.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on November 19, 2017, 01:54:04 PM
Version V0.3 available :

https://www.mediafire.com/file/xh8gcit7wps40ca/Stop%20Gap%20Measure%20v0.3.rar (https://www.mediafire.com/file/xh8gcit7wps40ca/Stop%20Gap%20Measure%20v0.3.rar)

Include 3 new ships :
-High-tech quick freighter
-Mid-tech line cruiser based on the Valkyrie
-Mid-tech light carrier identical to the Drover game-wise

 3 new weapons:
-Small mid-range energy plasma gun. A salvo light pulse laser with poor accuracy
-Small mid-range flak shotgun. Fire 6 slug with a slow rate of fire.
-Small mid/long range HE gun. Slow and poorly efficient but accurate with EMP effect


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: lechibang on November 26, 2017, 01:30:01 AM
You should PM a moderator and ask him to move this topic to the mods section.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Morbo513 on November 26, 2017, 06:27:33 AM
These look great!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on November 28, 2017, 08:01:45 AM
Quote
You should PM a moderator and ask him to move this topic to the mods section.

Yes you're probably right... I will wait for the next batch of stuff to be implemented (in maybe 2 or 3 days). I still have some problems wit a new weapon I made.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on November 30, 2017, 05:54:27 AM
New version! (0.31)

This one is more about fixing thing (mostly sprites) and adding lore for existing stuff.

I got a little bit distracted by doing other ships. The Ballista missile destroyer was not on my to-do list by was a great fun to kitbash from the Prometheus.

I also try (and failed) to do some kind of ion torpedo with AoE, but in the end it turns out as a mid-long-range cruise missile :

(https://i.imgur.com/S3cYN0q.png)
this is going to end badly for the Hammerhead

For now its a medium mount, 3 missiles package, energy dmg and high emp value. Speed of a harpoon but manoeuvrability of a Pilum. Dont use it against frigates.

As always, C&C are welcome.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on December 15, 2017, 07:23:22 PM
Another update !

Here is v0.32 :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/juwwbpp1zjpeag2/Stop%20Gap%20Measure%20v0.32.rar

-Include 2 new ships and a skin for a Luddic Hammerhead
-New samll mount for the Lotop Ion LRM
-Hull mod for Luddic ships which upgrade hull, lower supply consomption but lower speed.
-The Wagner get a new ship system, a Fire COntrol which increase its range by 20% for a short period.
-5 new ship descriptions

Thanks to mendoca for moving the thread.

Next upgrade, I want to try creating 2 new systems to increase available military market for Tri-Tachyion, Luddic Church and Neutral.
I also want to include 3 missions to allow people to discover the new ships.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Kwbr on December 19, 2017, 04:26:09 AM
I think I found a little bit of a bug

(http://puu.sh/yJFdq/3153d7943e.jpg)


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on December 19, 2017, 09:28:49 AM
OK so I know how this variable work about the base value for skin.

On my list for next update, probably there will be other thing like this with other skins (Opportunity clean, Carcajou (P), Copernic (P)...)

Thanks!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Igncom1 on December 24, 2017, 03:37:20 PM
The unit card, or whatever it is called, says that the Tantive-Class has two medium energy slots, but I can only see the one.

I might be blind as I cannot seem to find a second medium energy slot.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on December 29, 2017, 09:44:53 AM
Thanks for noticing, probably an error problem in Trylobot. Will fix it


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Serenitis on January 08, 2018, 12:30:17 PM
The Ballista has a problem.

Code:
"weaponSlots": [
    {
      "angle": 0,
      "arc": 120,
      "id": "WS0001",
      "locations": [
        52,
        -0
      ],
      "mount": "HARDPOINT",
      "size": "SMALL",
      "type": "BALLISTIC"
    },
    {
      "angle": -0,
      "arc": 0,
      "id": "WS0002",
      "locations": [
        52,
        0
      ],
      "mount": "TURRET",
      "size": "MEDIUM",
      "type": "ENERGY"
    },

The front energy turret is defined as having an angle of 0 - ie: is a hardpoint.
And the front ballistic hardpoint is defined as having an angle of 120 - ie: is a turret.
Also, both share the same location 52, 0 with the effect that the medium energy slot is entirely inaccessible to the player.

Suggestion:
Either....
Remove the medium energy mount as it doesn't fit too well (imo) with a missile support ship, and the ballista doesn't really have enough op to spare for secondary weapons anyway.
Keep the small ballistic mount on the nose but change to/keep it as a turret.
Or....
Separate the positions and keep them the way they are now. Small ballistic turret + Med. energy hardpoint.

The unit card, or whatever it is called, says that the Tantive-Class has two medium energy slots, but I can only see the one.

I might be blind as I cannot seem to find a second medium energy slot.
This is the same issue. Two weapon mounts sharing identical locations.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on January 09, 2018, 07:17:58 AM
Thanks for reporting the error. It's probably the same error that with the Tantive i.e. in Trylobot mount can be placed in "mirror", which means 2 mounts are placed on the ship at exactly the same location.

Do you have any feeedback about the Ballista? I think it could use some nerf somewhere as I feel it's a little bit too powerfull.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Serenitis on January 09, 2018, 09:40:41 AM
Do you have any feeedback about the Ballista? I think it could use some nerf somewhere as I feel it's a little bit too powerfull.
The Ballista is almost an exact mirror image of the Archer from Ship & Weapon Pack, only low-tech and with slightly worse stats and less OP. And I think that is why is doesn't "feel" right, it isn't it's own thing in it's own place. Yet.
You can make it more distinct by trimming it down so it's not quite so "jack of all trades".
If I were making that ship for myself I would be inclined to specialise it more towards missile support, by removing the medium energy slot and maybe 2 or 3 of the ballistic slots.
And in compensation give it a built-in mod to help with missles - I'd probably go for Missile Racks. And then reduce it's OP by 10 to 15 points.
Other than that, it's stats are not in a bad place.

One more thing to note: The missiles being turret mounts makes the Ballista quite powerful when fitted with multiple torpedoes, which is something you'd normally have to fly cruisers or capitals to experience. But also makes it fairly unique.

This is all just opinion, so feel free to ignore anything that doesn't seem "right" for your mod.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on January 09, 2018, 11:19:21 AM
Interesting, at the start I was thinking about making a built-in mod but finally don't because it would feel too much powerfull. As it stand now, it has an insane potential when it has its missile loadout. But once exhausted, the ship become boring because it can defend itself but is not a threat anymore. With the current IA, it's just painfull.
Originaly it's supposed to sport 3 Medium Missile and 5 Ballistic. Now maybe it would feel better with some changes :
-2 Med Missiles Hardpoint
-1 Small missiles turret and 4 Ballistic OR keep the Med Missile and just 3 Ballistic.
-Expanded missiles hullmod
-Less OP
I will try it, thanks for the feedback.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on February 12, 2018, 01:43:22 PM
Version 0.4!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/n480syi1e2nhbup/Stop_Gap_Measure_v0.4.rar

-Include 2 new ships : Cathar heavy cruiser and Triumph battlecarrier
-Fix several mistakes on ship files
-2 new star systems to add military market to TT, Luddic Church and Neutral. The system were completely generated randomly using a house generator for wargame and RPG
-3 Missions. One of them got the lore describded, the two others will wait next update

For next update, I plan to add two new ships, one new star system, 2 new weapons and finally add lore where needed.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on March 26, 2018, 11:33:02 AM
New version :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/kl8m3q93twww3wo/Stop_Gap_Measure_v0.6.rar

-2 new ships : a Dram-based gunship/garbage frigate for pirates, and the Minos, using its high flux capability for defense instead of manoeuvrability.
-2 New weapons : a mid-range salvo medium laser, and a AoE PDS plasma launcher
-A new system, adding another military market for Luddic Church and a nice combat zone with Hegemony and Try-Tachion.

I want to make a last update before moving to something else. It will serve to fix minor things, add two last ships (a ECM low-tech destroyer and a cruiser-sized carrier) and lore fore remaining things. I also want to add 2 weapons systems.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on April 29, 2018, 05:59:20 AM
Nice vanilla expansion mod.
Some feedback:
>great job with bonus ships/refits for Luddic Church, look amazing
>like the Pyrrhocorax  and Tantive,  dunno about rest of high tech TT ships, they look good but are they really needed?
>adore Huntsman, really nice looking frigate
>Arbitrator look great
>Opportunity and Foundation also look good, too bad Fundation salvage gantry is only  little more effective than Salvage rig
>Herder look better than Drover but Triumph look hideous
>Hoplite look decently
>rest is pretty meh but still OK outside of Copernicus that not really blend well with vanilla
Sadly there is still plenty of descriptions missing.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on April 29, 2018, 06:22:44 PM
Thanks Sarissofoi. I'm really glad you enjoyed the Luddic ships, I wanted to give Luddic Church some presence in the game.

Just will respond to the relevant comments:
-Mostly I'm still learning to make sprite from scratch, and most ships you found "meh" or terrible are sprite I've made from nothing.
-Foundation: yeah, but the problem is from the core game. But I don't have the skill to change or add something to the value of salvage gantry for cruiser....
-About High-tech ships (Carcajou and Minos): I wanted other ships to give some variety to high-tech. (Example : for frigate, Low-tech has like 3 ships, Mid-tech too, and high tech have 1). I didn't include phase ship because they are more elite super-high tech for me.
-"Herder look better than Drover but Triumph look hideous" : I really hate the drover. It's just a flying brick. Triumph follow the same idea that high tech ship : more variety. In reality I never encoutered a Triumph in game.
-Copernicus : pretty much my thought too. I will probably rework it at some point. I like the scarab aspect, but the overall result is pretty much flat. Still funny you like the Tantive, it's the next ship I will redraw...

About the descriptions, I plan to finish them all. However I sometime lack imagination for some of them. All ships in this mod can be classified as 1) a design I wanted to make to fly it myself with a clear idea of its origin, moderatly usefull for the game  (Dove, Carcajou, Hoplite, Luddic ships), 2) Ships I liked the original sprite or conceptual shape, not really usefull, no inspiration for description (Opportunity, Wagner or Ballista) and 3) ships added only for adding variety (in regards to role or ship-system), with a description mostly boring to justify its presence in game (Traverse, Minos, Herder). So descriptions are mostly added in order of the list above.

Any comments about the new systems?


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on April 30, 2018, 08:22:20 AM
What systems do you mean?
Ship systems or star system?
The first need description the second are alright although not fan of the names.
Too bad that there are no more simple expansion mods that add some  star systems for vanilla  faction and new ones that simply use vanilla(or recolored) plus SSP and underworld ships.
Also your frigate transports have really high cargo capacity compared to vanilla or SSP frigate freighters.
I like Tantive - colors are right and it look fitting right into high tech TT.

To be honest I really want bigger map and want factions to be specific and use similar themed ships(but just vanilla+ ones). That is why your mod and SSP/UW is great. Used it for my mini mod. Too bad that it looks like ripping factions and star systems from other mods(and give them vanilla compositions) would be to troublesome.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 01, 2018, 09:41:47 AM
Quote
Also your frigate transports have really high cargo capacity compared to vanilla or SSP frigate freighters.

That's the point. Vanilla frigate freighters are more "combat" or "armored" freighters, or even skirmisher in the case of the Hound. The Chondrite and the Traverse are more Dram-like ship completly dedicated to their role with nearly absent combat capacities.

Quote
To be honest I really want bigger map and want factions to be specific and use similar themed ships(but just vanilla+ ones). That is why your mod and SSP/UW is great. Used it for my mini mod. Too bad that it looks like ripping factions and star systems from other mods(and give them vanilla compositions) would be to troublesome.

Glad that the mod achieved its objectives. About the ripping from other mods, the point is about the rights to use them. In reality they would not be that hard to translate to vanilla, except if you want to remove shipsystems or other scripts for a reason or another (like my inability to use mod needing graphic lib...)

One last thing if you don't mind : any opinions about the weapons? I struggle to balance them vanilla-wise, so any opinion would be appreciated.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 02, 2018, 06:05:17 AM
Thing is your frigates are little to little(especially that high tech one) for that much carrying cargo capacity.
I mean they have 150 and its double of most of frigate freighters. Your Tantive have 200 and Mule have 250. The Buffalo have 300 and its much worse armed(compared that its a destroyer).

Quote
the point is about the rights to use them
Yeah that is why I write that it would be too troublesome.

About weapons. Only used plasma caster and its good - good looking and sounds good. The rest need descriptions as I avoid using no description weapons. Also over all I am no a big fan of new weapons in my semi vanilla game. Yours still look semi vanilla so its not that bad but no descriptions no deal.
Also putting them in list in first page alongside ships would help.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 15, 2018, 03:41:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Eb3z1yD.png?1)

I think this is a .... real opportunity!!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 15, 2018, 11:33:06 AM
Haha definitly! I really misunderstood this line in the variant files....

Thanks!


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 15, 2018, 12:07:59 PM
You welcome.

Also decided to make this
(https://i.imgur.com/DXK3mif.png)
So anybody can see what weapons you added in mod.
and this:
(https://i.imgur.com/f4hQeFr.pngr)
Crusader get some Martyr part of desc. The same goes for Templar.
Some ships missing ones.
Foundation have other problem.
It salvage gantry is just not effective enough to warrant taking it. Currently salvage gantry work 10/20/30/40 % salvage for frig/dest/cruiser/capital.
Where I feel that it should be 10(or even 12,5)/25/50/100. I mean if you bring CAPITAL salvage ship you don't really should need anything else.

So knowing that making core ship system modifying is hard or impractical - could you(if you can and have spare time and will) add some mod that increase salvage rating for cruisers and capitals?
Anyway keep doing good job. Your mod is really nice.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 19, 2018, 06:35:50 PM
Seriously, thank you for you dedication to this mod.
I promess I will add and fix all description next version (I tought I was the only one to care about it.)

For the salvage gantry, I need to check if I can do it first...


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 20, 2018, 02:07:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ajnaich.png?2)
Another one.

I like this mod. It has some really good sprites and give some more needed love to Luddist. Also some ships are cute. Yeah I am talking about Huntsman.

Actually I could do some description and fixes(like price and mixed desc ones) and upload it here if you could and would incorporate it.
Sadly my gimp fu and coding fu  are rather weak so I can't offer much more help than that.




Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 21, 2018, 08:12:12 AM
I should be able to release a new version in the next few days. It will add 2 weapons and a ship, several new variants for vanilla ships and descriptions for everything (not less...).


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: c0nr4d1c4l on May 21, 2018, 08:01:33 PM
These ships are lookin pretty solid! Gonna have to add this to my mod bag.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 23, 2018, 12:07:15 PM
New version! Dedicated to Sarissofoi

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c58l2l52o3y2q5e/Stop%20Gap%20Measure%20v0.61.rar

-All ships and weapons now have a description
-Add the Starblazer carrier
-Added variants for vanilla ships
-2 new weapons
-Fix many errors in files and descriptions
-Some balance twist to the Arbitrator, the Traverse and the Chondrite

I definitely need some feedback on the all the weapons added by this mod.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 24, 2018, 08:17:32 AM
Cool.
But it looks like Starblazer didn't appear in the codex.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 24, 2018, 08:39:05 AM
Intriguing. I have absolutely no idea why. Descriptions is in the right file, ID names are correct...
If you find one in game can you check if you can access its description from there?


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: DinoZavarski on May 24, 2018, 10:08:07 AM
Coilgun: high explosive ancestor of the railgun

Ancestor??? You know, coilguns are much more advanced technology. Compared to railguns they have superior energy and thermal efficiency and are also much cheaper to maintain (no rapidly wearing rails). They however have worse calliber/mass ratio and are much more technological. So much that humanity still lacks the technology to produce at least experimental military grade coilguns (computers solved feedback/coil control problems but without cheap and reliable high-temperature superconductor performance remains suboptimal), while first experimental military grade railguns were made in early 1940's.

In SS terms this means Coilguns (AKA Gauss Cannons) should have higher OP/price and either noticeably lower flux or higher rate of fire compared to identical Railguns.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 24, 2018, 04:34:38 PM
Yeah I'm quite aware of this aspect. Initially I wanted something like "railgun", but it would have been too much confusing. You can still think that it was something great at the time but highly unreliable (like the cannons used to take Constantinople) and then later the technological breakthrough was used to create the railgun, with higher rate of fire and much less flux problem. Anyway, this is Sci Fi, and Starsector, so pretty much everything is silly and handwavium  :P . I just wanted a HE gun with better range than LAG.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: AxleMC131 on May 24, 2018, 11:04:01 PM
Try "Solenoid Gun" perhaps. A solenoid is basically the primitive form of a railgun or gauss gun (using an electromagnetic field to move an object), just usually without the "gun" bit.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: stormbringer951 on May 25, 2018, 04:36:14 AM
The tips of vanilla weapons mounted on the front of the Hoplite can stick out in front of its shield.

Charged laser is superior to pulse laser and costs less OP. 800 range is pretty good for a energy weapon, and ships that can mount medium energy mounts are more likely to be fast. Lots of AI opponents will also be fit with shorter range guns, and if you have both speed + range advantage fights can be trivial. While it is less flux-efficient, it is also much better at stripping armour (due to the snowballing effect of higher damage per shot on armour). Against opponents that outrange it, you don't need to approach as close before being able to fire (offsetting poor flux efficiency), and against opponents you outrange having poor flux efficiency matters less due to being able to kite them. I'd have a look at nerfing some aspects of it.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 26, 2018, 03:23:15 AM
Intriguing. I have absolutely no idea why. Descriptions is in the right file, ID names are correct...
If you find one in game can you check if you can access its description from there?
I was looking for reason but can't find it why it don't appear.
I make it appear in simulator and well there is pic:
(https://i.imgur.com/dppgjzN.png)


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships, weapons and worlds for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 26, 2018, 09:55:03 AM
@stormbringer951
thanks for the feedback. For the charged laser, I want a weapon with a little bit more of punch per shot and higher range than pulse laser, with the obvious feeling that this is an old weapon with many drawback. Here is a suggestion to fix it : cost 12 OP instead of 9, range drop to 750, turn rate quite diminished, and if necessary, adjust rate of fire and/or damage per shot to lower its dps.
I find the exercice quite difficult: making new weapons, not broken, not useless, with more of a niche role in comparison to vanilla one.

@Sarissofoi
Thanks for checking, I will ask Alex about that.

For the coilgun: I will look to change in name. Now I give a new look at it, it looks like more like a railgun in reality... because , well, it has rails on each side....


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: AxleMC131 on May 26, 2018, 04:01:44 PM
I see the Starblazer has a D-mod (Damaged Flight Deck). Ships that have D-mods don't show up in the codex - it's hard coded into the game as such. Not rightly sure why, but the same thing came up just the other day in the Discord.

Out of interest, why does it have Damaged Flight Deck?


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 26, 2018, 08:24:19 PM
Quick answer: its effect in-game mimic what I intended for the ship : a civilian design unable to replace fast enough fighter losses. Now you mentioned it, I wonder if it would not be better with a Converted Hangar hullmod instead. Yeah I think it is what I had in mind.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: AxleMC131 on May 27, 2018, 02:16:51 AM
Definitely go for Converted Hangar. For a start, it makes more general sense, and is often used in that way already. Second, you can't Restore it away as you could with Damaged Flight Deck. D-mods should be restricted only to actual damaged vessels, as opposed to "vessels that need a nerf".


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on May 30, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
Small fix (v0.62)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/lstl934h3b2il8p/Stop_Gap_Measure_v0.62.rar/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/lstl934h3b2il8p/Stop_Gap_Measure_v0.62.rar/file)

List of changes:
-Starblazer has Converted Hangar instead of Damaged Deck. IT should now show up in the Codex. Thanks to AxleMC131 for helping on this one!
-Saturation launcher: changed behavior, the IA should not be launching it stupidly now (need to be verified)
-Charged Laser: OP increased to 11, higher flux/shot, slightly decreased damage/shot, worst turn rate


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: DinoZavarski on August 17, 2018, 05:01:46 AM
Try "Solenoid Gun" perhaps. A solenoid is basically the primitive form of a railgun or gauss gun (using an electromagnetic field to move an object), just usually without the "gun" bit.

It seems that recently it is quite common for people to have no knowledge what is the difference between railgun and coilgun.

"Solenoid" is how you call each separate coil in a coilgun/gauss cannon - those weapons use series of solenoids, activated in sequence to "drag" magnetically sensitive projectile (Actually in some implementations the just passed by coil swaps polarity for a while to add "push". Those require projectile with own magnetic field.). To maximize the effectiveness of this process recently computer control of each coil based on active feedback for the acceleration process is used.

The "projectile" that coilgun launches has to have decent magnetic sensitivity, but otherwise there are little limitations. There is no need to make it conductive, or heat and friction resistant, as it is in a state of magnetic levitation during the launch process. Actually there is not even a necessity to use solid object - acceleration of plasma or even particles are common applications for a coilgun (yes, cyclotrons are technically coilguns to).

Compared to this railguns are pretty simple devices, they consist of two rails, connected by a conductive projectile. When rails are powered the current that passes thru the projectile generates magnetic field that constantly pushes the projectile (practically the railgun is open cycle linear electric motor). This means that aside from being magnetically sensitive railgun projectiles have to be highly resistant to heat and friction. The power loses due to those heat and friction also lead to low energy efficiency.

So basically coilguns have good flexibility, cost and energy efficiencies, but are large and complex to build (so complex, that we still can't build a military grade one). As for railguns - they are cost and energy inefficient, but allow you to bruteforce (more power, stronger materials) most problems to reach practical implementation. Each industrial age technical or iron age magical civilization should be able to implement them as weapons.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: AxleMC131 on August 17, 2018, 05:54:47 PM
... Wow. I just got an education.  :D


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: Retry on August 24, 2018, 01:36:20 PM
I can't help but notice this isn't in the mod index.  It'd be nice if it was, as I didn't even know it existed until now.


Title: Re: [0.8.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Post by: MajorTheRed on August 26, 2018, 03:08:00 PM
You're completey right. I never thought about asking, mostly because I never envisioned this mod to be "meaningful". It's aim to a quiet small audience (small computer, vanilla extended, no new factions, lore-driven) and at the time I started releasing it AxleMC131's mod was doing a great job in itself to expend vanilla. The other reason is I'm not sure the mod index is still up to date.