Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: dk1332 on October 10, 2017, 04:24:52 AM

Title: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: dk1332 on October 10, 2017, 04:24:52 AM
So how do you guys build your fleets? Like how many each ship types do you have in your fleet?

Lets just say you have 35 ships(achievable by changing the game's config incase someone asks), what will you put in those? And why?

Here's my fleet
-2 Capitals (Both have flight decks)
-4 Cruisers (two of them have flight decks)
-2 Standard Carriers(Cruiser sized)
-6 Destroyers
-4 Light Carriers
-8 Frigates
-4 Auxiliary ships (2 fuel ships and 2 cargo ships, Cruiser sized)

Why:
I find this fleet sustainable in my own opinion. Limiting to 2 Capitals allows me to lower the supply costs and the lack of capitals are compensated by the number of cruisers. As you can see, I rely mostly on "Air Superiority" due to the number of ships with flight decks. This build focuses more on dealing a single large battle. The remaining 5 slots are for the spoils.

Pros:
- The swarms of fighters causes enough confusion on enemy PD. Making them more likely to be vulnerable to missiles, and torpedoes.
- 2 Capitals and 4 Cruisers are cheaper than 6 Capitals...Especially when going into hyperspace.
- The large number of fighters gives your ships some cover especially when they got overheated.
- Good for mostly large yet quick battles.
- Good for bounty missions.

Cons:
- The ships with flight decks are hampered by their lowered speed and flux issues. There's also the CR drain.
- Lack of straight forward firepower in terms of direct combat.
- Will only last 1 large battle. Will cause problems on consecutive battles.
- Frequent crew losses.
- Not ideal for solo invasions on Nex.

So, What about you guys?
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Megas on October 10, 2017, 05:36:21 AM
My endgame fleet looks something like this:
Paragon, with four Tachyon Lances and maybe Converted Hangar (primary flagship)
Legion (secondary flagship)
(maybe) Astral, if I want to use bombers.
2 to 4 Dominator/Eagle/Falcon, all with Converted Hangar
2 to 4 Heron/Mora
1 to 4 Drover
1 or 2 Tempest (to enable Pursuit and Auto-resolve after battle)
Hyperion and/or Afflictor (special OPs flagship when capital is unnecessary)
1 or 2 Prometheus
1 to 4 Colossus/Atlas (for looting)

Most ships have (D) mods, due to recovery being the easiest way to obtain most ships, yet too expensive to restore; not to mention that the reduced deployment costs vastly reduce supply consumption from repairs.

I tend to go fighter-heavy fleets because fighters are fast enough to force fights against the cowardly AI that loves to kite-and-turtle until peak performance and CR decay to zero.  However, due to AI shortcomings, AI carriers love to send fighters to escort your flagship instead of at enemies to kill, and the only way to make use of their fighters is to wade in and kill things so that their fighters might kill enemies they are supposed to.  Sometimes, carriers need protection, and beefy combat ships to tank for them are nice, especially if the beefy combat ships are carriers in their own right thanks to Converted Hangar.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: StarSchulz on October 10, 2017, 04:27:45 PM
I like to have 2-3 ships i consider a "flagship" that i deploy one at a time and pilot myself in a long battle, to preserve CR. after that my officers will usually pilot half carriers and half cruisers or any extra capital ships i have. i fill up the rest of the spots with varying destroyers and frigates, and any necessary logistics. I will generally restore the most important of the three flagships, likely to be a conquest if i am playing vanilla.

throwing an example here, i could look at my vanilla save file -

-Conquest, Odyssey and a Hyperion are my flagships, so no officers in them.
-Two onslaughts, and a mix of 7 or so carriers are piloted by officers.

the rest are mostly destroyers / light cruisers with a couple frigates mixed in. This gives my fleet a better ability to pursue if i need to. I give my battleships to the AI, as they can handle them effectively in the situations i put them in.
 
In a very mega-lategame modded playthrough i took on a very high paying Templar assassination job, where my flagships were a Paladin and a Chevalier, with a DME Vesper as a backup for pursuing. My officers piloted four Crusader class, and two Zelenograd battleships. the rest of the officers were in carriers, and all other ships were in DME frigates. When it doesn't matter anymore when your frigates die and they can be recovered, you can deploy them in any battle without a worry.

In both cases with the dual officer battleship setup, i have one officer with reckless escorting the second battleship with a steady or cautious officer. this means that, the reckless one is allowed to be aggressive but is kept on a sort of leash, with them tied to the escort duty. they can go far, but instead of going to their deaths they keep near the other one which may keep just out of range of combat. They also provide a great source of cover, allowing me a place to retreat and vent. Onslaughts i cram full of PD and they protect me from any stray missiles.

Carriers are very effective, and i wouldn't make a good fleet without them.

The last little bit that helps make those fleets work, is that i generally take all the leadership related skills related to command points - I use them to order my ships to retreat individually when they begin to run low on PPT. Once my fleet has done that i can re-engage and use only their CR deployment costs and not let them degrade their CR in combat. That, lets me stand against fleets FAR larger than my own, with the 30 ship limit.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: NightfallGemini on October 11, 2017, 12:42:31 AM
I just usually go where the loot takes me to start with. Typically I'll shoot for carriers late since I play heavily modded and the mod packs have great fighters. Last Nex run my flagship was a Pandemonium I found floating.

So tldr, overwhelming force.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Flying Birdy on October 11, 2017, 10:41:07 AM
I play mostly as a non-affiliated pirate (not even friends with pirates).

I typically have 2 ships that I pilot myself. If I need to fly at burn 9 I'll put together 1 SO aurora (with augmented drives) and 1 SO falcon. If I need to fly at burn 10 I need to have 2 SO falcons (with drivefields).

For specialist roles, I bring an afflictor and a shade. The Afflictor act as a capital killer, armed with only dagger torpedos. The shade is the chaser, used to clean up stragglers after battles.

The rest of my fleet is entirely tempests.

The fleet can suffer a lot of ship losses in battle and not worry about it (with exception to the ships I fly). Tempests act as excellent distractions, pinning the enemy ships while I go around killing everything. If the tempests die, I can just recover it after the battle (d-mods barely make an impact on tempests' functionality). Occasionally, if there is a huge ship that I can't kill, I'll transfer to my afflictor to snipe it.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: King Alfonzo on October 11, 2017, 06:53:20 PM
I tend to rely on salvage, so my fleet composition tends to get a bit weird after a while. At first I'll rely on scavanged frigates, then move onto buying or stealing better frigates. Causality or Tempest are choice targets. After that I tend to continue to scavange frigates and a small amount of auxiliary cargo, fuel and salavage ships until i get a wolf pack going. Then I tend to replace the worse frigates with destroyers and carriers, and upgrade the auxilliaries (so i aim to go from 4 shepherds to 4 salvage rigs, 3 drams to 2 Phaetons, 2 Tarsus to a Rime). Then it's a case of upgrading the worse destroyers to cruisers and a capital. I usually aim to have Causality with ion pulsar, STAR tempest with ion beam and burst energy weapon, and Freya with Hyper driver for chasing down ships and general fleet support, the Vanguard, Phillipshead and Fracture for destroyers, a Dictator, Vindicator and Nevermore for cruisers, and a Karkinos for Capital option. Carriers tend to be selected on opportunity and how much of my fleet is carrier by the time I begin upgrading to capitals, in which case I tend to select SCY, Shadowyards and Diable carriers for destroyer through to capital options.

I feel weird that I seem to be the only one with salvage rigs / shepherds as a requisite for any fleet.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Linnis on October 12, 2017, 12:30:17 AM
I always try to keep a balance between "Distractions" and "Shooties", this way no matter how large a fleet its always balanced.

Distractions are fighter wings, Dominator, Onslaught, Eagle, and Falcon. Some frigates are obviously the Monitor, Wolf, Tempest, anything with good speed.

Then the Shooties are bombers, Hammerhead and its little brother, Medusa, Lashers.

Then some ships are be kitted to do either, like the Enforcer, Aurora, Medusa.

I hate trying to make hybrid ships that can deal damage and take it, it always ends up either not doing enough damage, or dying or getting shredded when shot at. The only exception are the Onslaught or Paragon of course.

Deploy Distractions first, and make Shooties follow them (but not with escort order)

Works wonders, this way you're not afraid to lose ships, and battles goes way faster.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: cjuicy on October 12, 2017, 09:22:46 AM
My fleet comps are often eclectic, with a focus on having lots of "anvils". The few "hammers" I keep are either SO, my flagship, or the Desdinova/Nevermore/Kormoran. I also always have a Shepherd and/or Katrina, as I will never pass up salvage. I rarely use capital ships, and if I do I usually go with an Odyssey or Conquest first. I've only used an Onslaught once or twice, and I always hate it. If I want a full battleship I'll grab a Mimir or Paragon.
My Desdinova/Nevermore/Kormoran/Odyssey/Mimir is piloted by me, and when I move on I keep them as back-up ships or specialty fighters.

I usually have the following ships in my fleet at some point, faction runs aside:

2 or 3 Wolves: Very flexible harassment frigates with Harpoon/Sabots and Phase Lance. I later use them as pursuit ships with Pulse Laser, Ion Cannon and Salamanders.

SO Lasher/Hammerhead/Vindicator: Perhaps my favorite SO ships, the Lasher and Hammerhead are usually my flagships early game, with an SO Vanguard with a Devastator sometimes substituted in. Lashers use Dual MGs and Vulcans, Hammerheads use Dual HMGs plus Vulcans. Both carry Perforators/Annihilators.

SO Eagle: I've only recently been doing this, but an SO Eagle is soooooooooooo much fun. I blame the tournaments for these. I usually equip with 3 Flamers or 2 Assault Chainguns and a HMG in the front slots, 3 Storm Blasters or Ion Pulsers (interchangeable) in the energies, normal PD lasers for PD, and Annihilators/Perforators/Quills for Missiles.

4 or 5 Moras: I keep several of these loaded with different missiles. Fighter-wise I usually go with Talons, Khopeshes, Spirales, Sparks, and Flashes depending on the missile choice. (Khopeshes or Flashes with Sabots, Talons or Sparks with Inferno MIRVs, Spirales I'll put with Harpoons or any other missile because I like them)

Corocotta: SCY ships are a rarity, as I never really visit Tartarus except for Frism Preport. I sometimes get lucky and snag one of these. I give them a HEMor/KAcc with the secondary weapons being the alternate versions. I once had one with a Zone Scorcher and was very happy with it. Until it died. :(
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: King Alfonzo on October 12, 2017, 03:53:44 PM
...with an SO Vindicator...
How does that affect the main gun on the Vindicator? Also, isn't the final product a bit too slow to work as an efficient hammer?
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: FooF on October 12, 2017, 05:41:18 PM
My end-game fleets are typically 1-2 capitals, 2-3 Cruisers, 3-4 Destroyers, and a handful of Frigates. I really don't like huge fleets with multiple capitals.

If I have an Onslaught or Paragon, my cruisers tend to be carriers but if I have a Legion or Astral, my cruisers tend to be Dominators or Eagles. A Heron or Mora is usually in there no matter what, or a few Drovers. I don't go overboard with carriers: 2-3 at most.

I really like SO Hammerheads  ships and Sunders with HIL to snipe or Autopulse to alpha-strike. Tempests are exceptional harassers but SO Lashers do alright, too.

My flagship is typically an SO Eagle or Aurora (if I can find one). Speed is paramount, but so is the ability to fire without incurring a flux penalty. The staying power of SO means that I win the vast majority of flux wars.

Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: cjuicy on October 12, 2017, 08:54:01 PM
...with an SO Vindicator...
How does that affect the main gun on the Vindicator? Also, isn't the final product a bit too slow to work as an efficient hammer?
Not necessarily, with the proper skills and/or officer they make a serviceable vessel. And I meant Vanguard. Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on October 12, 2017, 11:01:46 PM
I like midline fast carrier fleets, so I tend to run 2-4 Herons, a destroyer swarm (Hammerheads aren't bad for it, now), and either an Astral or a Conquest as my heavy hitter, with a Sunder as my flagship. I like the distributed firepower, it's easy to reorient from target to target because each element is highly mobile, and it's devastating against capital ships once you strip them of escorts.

Of course, it falls down hard against anything that can absorb torpedo salvoes for a while.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on October 28, 2017, 06:59:57 PM
I play mostly as a non-affiliated pirate (not even friends with pirates).

I typically have 2 ships that I pilot myself. If I need to fly at burn 9 I'll put together 1 SO aurora (with augmented drives) and 1 SO falcon. If I need to fly at burn 10 I need to have 2 SO falcons (with drivefields).

My question is, when do you need to fly at burn 10?
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Flying Birdy on October 29, 2017, 10:40:46 AM
I play mostly as a non-affiliated pirate (not even friends with pirates).

I typically have 2 ships that I pilot myself. If I need to fly at burn 9 I'll put together 1 SO aurora (with augmented drives) and 1 SO falcon. If I need to fly at burn 10 I need to have 2 SO falcons (with drivefields).

My question is, when do you need to fly at burn 10?

Basically all the time when you're hostile with every single faction. Having that +1 burn is essential when you basically can't ever be in sensor range.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on October 29, 2017, 09:24:33 PM
Ah so sustained burn didn't change that then?
Shoot was hoping to have burn-9's composition flexibility. :I
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: NightKev on October 29, 2017, 11:25:08 PM
Well, currently I have a fleet with 3 Nevermores (there's a fourth I recently put into storage because perhaps having a 4 Nevermore fleet is a bit much, even if it is my favorite ship...) because I am far too reckless and constantly get blown up, and it's 2kCr cheaper to buy a new Nevermore than to remove the D-mod (which seems a bit silly but whatever); with my flagship currently being the 0-series (maybe the extra range on the Raze Cannon will help...). I've got a bunch of fighter support with a Kuramaja, Convergence and a Typheus (the latter two having pretty much their entire OP allotment put towards some very expensive fighters + fighter-related hullmods). I've got a mix of destroyers (including, but not limited to, a Calm, a Sunder (U), a Sunder (WRD), the Fracture IBB ship, a Hammerhead, my original flagship Desdinova (which is more like a mini-cruiser than a destroyer I suppose), and a couple others I forget right now (there also used to be a Scorpion but this time it was the AI that suicided into the middle of the entire enemy fleet, and I wasn't able to recover it)). I used to have a few frigates but they all blew up, and I haven't bothered to get any more because they don't seem necessary to me (maybe I've been using them wrong though?). At this point I think with another capital, cruiser and a couple more destroyers I'll be good.

PS: I bet you can't guess what faction is my favorite ;)
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Flying Birdy on October 30, 2017, 10:45:23 AM
Ah so sustained burn didn't change that then?
Shoot was hoping to have burn-9's composition flexibility. :I

S-burn lowers your sensor range and increase your sensor profile, ALOT. Basically, you can't see anyone but everyone can see you.

I've been killed multiple times running S-Burn in hostile systems. A fleet that e-burns towards you from a tangential vector is almost guarranteed to catch you if you are s-burning. More often than not, its better to air on the side of caution and fly normal in hostile systems. Also, with 10 burn, you basically can't ever be caught because most threatening fleets fly at 9 burn.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on November 03, 2017, 04:34:29 AM
Looking to build a small-footprint burn-10 omnivalent fleet (mining/salv/surv/smuggling).

Anyone have tips or ship recommendations?
Lotsomods loaded.


Here's what I've got so far, preferred ships on the left & alternatives to the right
(Support Fleet:)
Spoiler
Hawkmoth/Megaceras+Chinook/Dram-A x3
Tereshkova/Lynx-S
Cetonia/Mule-M/Lodestar/Pala-L x2
Katrina x2/Shepherd x2
Spectacle/Shalaika


Stats for first-choice fleet---
Profile/Sensor: 150/345
Fuel: ~11/jump
Supplies: ~52/month (1.75/d)
Surveying: 15
Salv: 20
Mining: ???

Storage: 935
Min/Max Crew: 188/416
Fuel: 1870
[close]

Too much/not enough?

Meanwhile on the combat side I'm looking to get:
2 Destroyers (assault+support)
1 fleet-support frigate (EMP weapons, maneuverable, long operating time)
1 Hunter-killer frigate (chasing & small skirmishes, able to burst down targets quickly)
1 Heavy frigate (drawing fire/solo survivor/mini-destroyer)

Here's my notes.
Shipname (importantaugs Mburn/consumption supplies storage/mincrew/fuel) mod
(Frigates)
Spoiler
Dram-A (9/1 2s 15/5/300)
Katrina (SALV/Bay 9/1 4s 75/15/120) DI-RE
Laminar (Surv 9/0.75 2s 75/5/40) DIABL
Leaf (CIV/Surv/automated 11/0.08 0.01s 5/0/50) NOMAD
Omen (Surv/ECCM 10/1 5s 30/10/20)
Shalaika (Sens/Surv 11/0.9 2s 60/10/60) DAS-M
Shear (SALV/DFS 9/4 2s 0/2/8) DIABL
Shepherd (CIV/SALV/Surv/Bay 9/1 3s 100/15/40)
Shepherd-A (Surv/Bay 9/1 3.6s 100/15/40)
Spectacle (Sens/Surv/Bay 10/1 4s 75/10/100) DI-RE


Cerberus (Shielded 10/1 4s 100/20/40)
Farin (Shielded 9/1 2s 100/15/30)
Gladiator-F (9/1 3s 100/10/40)
Hound (Shielded 10/1 3s 75/10/30)
Kobra (alt-hound)
Nautilus (11/1 3s 75/5/50)
Pala (10/1 3s 75/7/60)
Pala-L (Shielded 9/1 4s 125/10/90)
PuddleJumper (CIV 10/1 2.5s 120/16/60)
Wayfarer (10/1 5s 100/25/40)
(All nomad Frigates for storage)
[close]
(Destroyers)
Spoiler
Cetonia (9/3 6s 300/40/150) BRDY
Chinook (9/1.75 5s 30/30/550) DIABL
Flycatcher (Bay 9/1 2s 200/15/100) NOMAD
Komodo (9/2 4s 200/30/150) NOMAD
Leyte (BayBay 9/2 9s 225/32/80) DAS-M
Lodestar (Bay 9/2 6s 240/30/80) DAS-M
Lynx-S (Sens/Surv 9/2 7s 125/25/80)
Megaceras (Sens 9/2 11s 150/25/200) BRDY
Mule-M (Bay/Surv 9/2 7s 250/40/80)
Stratus (9/2 7s 225/55/90) DIABL
Sturmovic-S (SALV 9/3 7s 180/25/75) DI-RE
Tereshkova (Sens/Surv 9/1.5 12s 160/48/180) DAS-M
[close]
(Cruisers)
Spoiler
Elysium (P-sensor 9/1.25 16s 110/75/110) SRA
Falcon (9/3 15s 120/100/100)
Hawkmoth (9/3 22s 250/60/1200) BRDY
Thresher
[close]


Combat brain-storming
Spoiler
Glima (heavy frig)
Inanna (Fleet support)
Lasher DUL (anti-frig frig)
Lepisma (Fleet/Killer)
Locust (killer)
Mod-Silverfish (killer)
Predator (Killer)
Southpaw (Fleet/killer)
Taurus (heavy)
Tempest (Fleet/killer)
Vapor (Fleet/killer)
Vesper (Fleet/heavy/killer ECM)
Yellowjacket (fleet)
Deathblossom (fleet)
Enlil (fleet/heavy/killer)
Hecate (fleet)

Destroyers
Eurypterus
Gonodactylus
Manta
Morningstar
Praetorian
Princeps
Roadrunner
Sargasso
Scorpion
Securi
Snowgoose
Striker
Wanderer
[close]
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Sy on November 07, 2017, 05:26:59 AM
My question is, when do you need to fly at burn 10?
Basically all the time when you're hostile with every single faction. Having that +1 burn is essential when you basically can't ever be in sensor range.
Ah so sustained burn didn't change that then?
Shoot was hoping to have burn-9's composition flexibility. :I
i'd say SB did change this, just not completely (nor should it). high burn speed is certainly good to have, particularly in early-game, but it's significantly less crucial than it was pre-0.8, where 1 burn more was a huge advantage. i wouldn't wanna add a burn 7 ship to my otherwise burn 9 fleet, for example, but going from 10 to 9 would usually not be a big deal.

both Kite and Shepherd have burn 9, btw, so with the vanilla options, everyone starts the campaign with a burn 9 fleet now. so it would be quite bad if burn 10 was basically required to survive. you probably just don't wanna take a major faction commission right away, if you plan to move through then hostile territory. ^^

S-burn lowers your sensor range and increase your sensor profile, ALOT.
not anymore. 0.8.1a removed the sensor range penalty. it does let other fleets detect you at double the normal range though, yeah.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: bowman on November 18, 2017, 02:17:19 AM
The Conquest is my favorite ship so it always forms the core of my late-game fleets, though I have recently gained a liking to the Odyssey now that it got that speed buff. Helps that the Odyssey has a built-in hangar bay, which is what I focus my fleets on.

Fleet comp that I often return to:
1-2x Conquest / 1x Conquest 1x Odyssey, sometimes an Astral depending on what I plan on fighting
2-4x Heron
2x Medusa (Always named Terra and Luna, if anyone cares)
Assorted Wolf (Or Vigilance/Shepherd if I happened to salvage some)
Auxillary (Astral or 1-4x Tarsus, 1-2x Phaeton)

For the frigates, I don't personally care much for them so I don't focus on keeping them in the fleet if they happen to die: I'll take salvaged Wolf/Vig/Shep but I completely ignore Lasher and Hounds. If I happen to be fighting Tri-Tach and salvage higher-tech frigates I'll take those too, though.
My fleet revolves around heavy carrier presence and mobility. The Medusas act as surrogate frigates with far more firepower (any Wolfs are effectively just lower-strength Medusas and are equipped as such) while my flagship (Conquest or Odyssey) draws attention and tears apart anything that strays too close for too long.
For fighters, I equip the carriers with specific roles in mind- strike carriers are Longbow + 2x Khopesh while frigate-killers are 2x Broadsword + Warthog (sometimes Broadsword + Claw + Warthog, Claws can easily disable anything without a large shield so the Warthogs can eviscerate it), harassment or "space superiority" are either 3x Broadsword or a mix of Wasp/Broadsword/Claw. A heron with 3x Wasp is pretty hilarious to watch, though I can't say it really does all that much outside of completely shutting down any hopes the enemy had of a missile landing. My favorite fighter is the Khopesh, followed by Wasp and Claw wings.

If I hit that core fleet comp and keep playing for long enough I just get more Conquests and Herons. If it becomes too costly to fly around with them all, which it generally does given 4 capital ships are serious fuel hogs, I start dumping spares off at whatever market I've made my home- in the storage, that is. I'd never sell those beauties.
Title: Re: Fleet Building, How do you usually do it and why?
Post by: Arkar1234 on November 23, 2017, 03:36:23 AM
On my current DA playthrough


I was attempting to make a very "scalable" fleet composition, allowing for almost any skirmish ranging from small frigate chases to full on fleet battles.