Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Etfaks on February 25, 2012, 02:21:28 PM

Title: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on February 25, 2012, 02:21:28 PM
The Hoplites of Corinth
Keywords: titans, greek gods, corinth, hoplites,
yellow, gold, protectors & guardians.

Don't care about all of the development? DOWNLOAD NEWEST VERSION NAO (http://www.timskafte.dk/Starfarer/hoplites_of_corinth.rar)

The Hoplites' theme is based on the concept that was used by Ancient Greek city-states. These City-states employed citizen-soldiers as defence, which I have transfered to the future theme. This faction is the guardians of the trading & mining planet, apropriately named Corinth. The planet is under constant threat of being annexed by the other increasingly more powerful fractions. Hence the need for a citizen militia capable of protecting what is rightfully theirs.

I have not quite settled on the name and a few other things, but it will be something along the line of "The Corinthian Hoplites" or "The Hoplites of Corinth".

For now I have only been frankensteining & modifying a few ships, both as an experiment with the theme, but also to get comfortable with the artstyle of pixels. I have dabbled a tiny bit with the coding, and I am confident that with time i will reach my goals.

Current features:

Ships:
(http://i.imgur.com/2Ja59.png)
Fighter Wing, "Dory" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dory_(spear)) Class
(http://i.imgur.com/7lMgj.png)
First Frigate, "Marpesia" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marpesia) Class
(http://i.imgur.com/woU7k.png)
Second Frigate, "Machai" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machai) Class
(http://i.imgur.com/T546R.png)
Destroyer, "Cratus" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos_(mythology)) Class
(http://i.imgur.com/OYb54.png)
Cruiser Carrier, "Soteria" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soter) Class
(http://i.imgur.com/HgD4W.png)
Light Battlecruiser (capital), Heracles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles) Class


The ships will likely be named after greek mythology, gods, heroes, titans etc.

Features I hope to implement (evergrowing list):

I know it seems ambitious, but I like to keep my goals handy.

--------------------------------------------
0.2alfa
It includes four ships, and a testing mission. The mission is basically the four ships facing a similar fleet of original ships.

0.3alfa
Added:
--------------------------------------------

Download Newest Version Here! (http://www.timskafte.dk/Starfarer/hoplites_of_corinth.rar)


General Notes:
I advise you to change the option under gameplay, so that you take 100% damage instead of 50%.
All of the ships still need balancing, so I will be handing out over 9000 internet points to those who provide feedback ;)

Feedback, praise and criticism are always welcome, so let me know what you think :)

Regards Etfaks.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Kilvanya on February 25, 2012, 02:22:43 PM
dont know if its me but images are error messages
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on February 25, 2012, 02:31:44 PM
dont know if its me but images are error messages

Had linked to the imgur albums and not images directly. fixed, Silly me.

thanks for pointing it out
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Arghy on February 25, 2012, 02:34:44 PM
I love the idea of a small independent faction amongst the stars--i hope when the full campaign is working that there is more and more of them. I eventually want to ally with one of them and conquer the stars with each and every faction.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: XpanD on February 25, 2012, 03:05:11 PM
I quite like the first ship, don't scrap it! The other two ships look great too, so there's definitely some potential there. Good luck with it. :)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Alexander86 on February 25, 2012, 09:50:13 PM
I like these so far, look forward to the faction getting more fleshed out.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Psycho Society on February 26, 2012, 01:33:24 AM
Nice work! I like the theme a lot. The second frigate looks really neat in particular.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on February 27, 2012, 04:18:26 PM
I'm back

first off, thank you for the kind words.

I am currently creating/remixing another ship, but I need some feedback on what I have so far:
(http://i.imgur.com/6LtEX.png)
[edit] forgot to add the large laser to the list of weapons, my bad [edit]

The main areas I would like a second opinion on is the following


I have also begun the coding, and I am happy to announce that the smaller ships are currently working in a test mission, so I am progressing nicely.

I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

Regards Etfaks
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: ClosetGoth on February 27, 2012, 07:41:02 PM
Judging by its looks, it it about the size of a paragon! I would definitely call it a capital ship. A good reference is the Onslaught. If it is at least as large (no exceptions!) and has significant firepower/other uses (like as a carrier), it is a cap ship.

Also, when you decide to add campaign support, could you integrate this mod into the DeathSG Minimash mod-pack? That would be awesome!

Keep up the epic ship design!
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Apophis on February 28, 2012, 05:07:29 AM
Use open office to open csv file
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 01, 2012, 11:00:35 AM
0.2alfa update

Added:

Producing large ships really does take a lot of time  :-\ next up will likely be a smaller craft, or possibly a fighter wing.
I will wait a bit with undertaking the campaign aspect, because the fix with StarSystemAPI.getEntityByName might be underway. By any means, i need more ships before an AI faction in the campaign makes sense.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: medikohl on March 01, 2012, 11:49:25 AM
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/medikohl/starfarer/parrot.png)(http://i.imgur.com/HgD4W.png)
the pirates eat your ship for breakfast

should eat it's wheaties
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/medikohl/starfarer/paininass.png)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: medikohl on March 01, 2012, 12:52:31 PM
15 minute touch up on your ship above
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: medikohl on March 01, 2012, 12:58:39 PM
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/medikohl/starfarer/parrot.png)(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/medikohl/starfarer/paragon.png)(http://i.imgur.com/HgD4W.png)(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/medikohl/starfarer/onslaught_bb.png)(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/medikohl/starfarer/aurora_ca.png)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: hairrorist on March 01, 2012, 02:27:48 PM
Sprites are great!
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Arghy on March 01, 2012, 04:35:54 PM
This is goddamn beautiful.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Levik on March 01, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Excellent work. Medikohl, you far from this :p
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: medikohl on March 01, 2012, 06:03:44 PM
Excellent work. Medikohl, you far from this :p
anything gold and shiny I had nothing to do with.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: arwan on March 01, 2012, 06:39:42 PM
are your capital ship hand drawn... looks like it to me..
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 02, 2012, 01:58:43 AM
Thank you for all the kind words!

the pirates eat your ship for breakfast

should eat it's wheaties

Funny that you mention the Heracles class' size. At first it was meant to be a cruiser based on the auroras size. It just somehow grew a bit too much and such became a small/light capital ship focused on offensive capabilities and (relative for cap's) speed. It might be able to get to your engines and then the parrot would be screwed ;)

are your capital ship hand drawn... looks like it to me..

I assure you it is frankensteined. If you look closely you should be able to find parts of especially the paragon, but all hightech ships are pretty much used. However I use incredibly many parts, along with photoshop's dodge, burn & blur, so that might explain the natural look, but it did take a lot of hours. I am kind of perfectionistic about those things, but having a drawing tablet helps tremendously :)

But again, thank you for the praise, it really makes me want to continue :)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: mendonca on March 02, 2012, 02:40:12 AM
But again, thank you for the praise, it really makes me want to continue :)

May as well add to the praise then. These really do look great.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 02, 2012, 07:51:09 AM
Im currently trying to add a wing of fighters and I have come to a point where i can succesfully boot the game without crashing due to .csv problems etc. However when I try to add a wing of my fighters the mission doesn't work. It won't pick my test mission, but just reverts to the last working mission I had previously clicked on. Any pointers? Since I don't have any direct errors it is difficult troubleshooting it.

the mission file:

Code
package data.missions.test;

import com.fs.starfarer.api.fleet.FleetGoal;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.fleet.FleetMemberType;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.mission.FleetSide;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.mission.MissionDefinitionAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.mission.MissionDefinitionPlugin;

public class MissionDefinition implements MissionDefinitionPlugin {

public void defineMission(MissionDefinitionAPI api) {

// Set up the fleets
api.initFleet(FleetSide.PLAYER, "HSS", FleetGoal.ATTACK, false);
api.initFleet(FleetSide.ENEMY, "TTS", FleetGoal.ATTACK, true);

// Set up the player's fleet
api.addToFleet(FleetSide.PLAYER, "hc_cratus_standard", FleetMemberType.SHIP, true);
api.addToFleet(FleetSide.PLAYER, "hc_dory_wing", FleetMemberType.FIGHTER_WING, false);


// Set up the enemy fleet
api.addToFleet(FleetSide.ENEMY, "hammerhead_Balanced", FleetMemberType.SHIP, false);

// Set up the map.
float width = 10000f;
float height = 5000f;
api.initMap((float)-width/2f, (float)width/2f, (float)-height/2f, (float)height/2f);
}

}

It works when I either delete or // the hc_dory_wing line.
I guess that there is still a problem with either the hull, ship csv, wing csv or variant files right?
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: arcibalde on March 02, 2012, 08:07:59 AM
Your mod is working fine. Just open mod_info.json and put this dude  :

"id":"hc", # internal id



You used everywhere "hc" and yet in your mode_info.json file you put:" "id":"hoplites_of_corinth", # internal id ". That ID is used everywhere and it don't need to be same as mod dir name :)


Nice ships  ;D


Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 02, 2012, 08:28:31 AM
I have a feeling that the mod id doesn't do too much. It at least did not change anything for me (sadly). Any one else with a similar problem and/or a solution?
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: arcibalde on March 02, 2012, 08:32:38 AM
Waaa? Delete your mod from your game mod dir, d/l your mod from your OP change ID in mod_info.json and try it again. Mod is working, i played your mission.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: mendonca on March 02, 2012, 08:35:31 AM
I'm pretty sure every time I saw that error, it was because I had named my ship wrong (e: in the mission definition).

Just to confirm, you have structured the files something like :-

Fighter hull = hc_dory.ship
Fighter variant = hc_dory_Standard.variant
Fighter wing ID (in wing_data.csv) = hc_dory_wing

??

E: arcibalde - there are no fighters in the file in the OP ...
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: arcibalde on March 02, 2012, 08:55:10 AM
Yes i see, but i d/l his mod and mission that i have played is different from this one he put it. I don't have "wing" in it, just "ship".
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 02, 2012, 09:01:30 AM
Arcibalde, It is because I am trying to add a wing and balance stuff before releasing it in the OP.

Anyway, my mistake was in the wing.csv file as Mendonca pointed me towards. Thought the id was meant as the hullId of the individual ship, and not a new id (the wing id) which the mission pulls the data from, which in turn pulls from the variant file.

in any case, it worked and it's fine for now, thanks for the troubleshooting guys.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: arcibalde on March 02, 2012, 12:15:59 PM
Yes yes yes my bad... Just ignore me :)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: zbmott on March 02, 2012, 12:45:41 PM
You should call it ?? ??????? ?? ???????? (transliterated: Hoi Hoplitai hoi Korinthou), which is "The Hoplites of Corinth" in ancient Greek.  Or maybe I'm just being a pretentious classicist?

EDIT: Apparently the fora don't like Greek characters :(
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 02, 2012, 02:20:52 PM
You should call it ?? ??????? ?? ???????? (transliterated: Hoi Hoplitai hoi Korinthou), which is "The Hoplites of Corinth" in ancient Greek.  Or maybe I'm just being a pretentious classicist?

EDIT: Apparently the fora don't like Greek characters :(

hehe that's pretty cool, but a pain to pronounce if you're me (and likely not pronounced correct at all :D)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 05, 2012, 02:45:28 PM
0.3alfa update

Added:

Dory Class: fighter wing
(http://i.imgur.com/2Ja59.png)

Soteria Class: Cruiser Carrier
(http://i.imgur.com/OYb54.png)

Notes:
I'm not happy with the Cruiser. It just seems very "busy" to me, too much stuff going on with weird angles, but It will have to stay for now. I'll rather make new than redo old ships at the time.

I don't know if it's me, but the coordinates for placement of weapons seems really funky to me, sorta inverted maybe? I dunno, I might just be tired or something. In any case, it resulted in a lot of time being used to tinker with stuff, so that missiles (who often are freaking huge for small crafts. In my case especially the sabot & harpoon) wouldn't look too wonky. I usually use the incredibly handy Starfarer Ship Editor (http://sseditor.dyndns.org/sse/dev/), so altering manually took some getting used to.

As a final remark. I'm producing this mod while also going to an university, so that would be why updates can at times be sporadic.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Psycho Society on March 05, 2012, 04:00:55 PM
That is a sweet looking cruiser. Looks like it could do some damage with that lizard sticker as well.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: ensignharrykim on March 05, 2012, 05:23:59 PM
can i offer some advice?

Forget the balancing make the Hoplite ships super tough after all the real Greek Hoplites took years of training almost from birth balance them by making them really really REALLY expensive
BTW the closest thing that Firefox could come up with for spell checking Hoplite was shop lifter
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: silentstormpt on March 05, 2012, 06:00:03 PM
Those ships really look like something Silicoid would make on MoO, really nice designs btw
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on March 06, 2012, 10:02:55 AM
can i offer some advice?

Forget the balancing make the Hoplite ships super tough after all the real Greek Hoplites took years of training almost from birth balance them by making them really really REALLY expensive
BTW the closest thing that Firefox could come up with for spell checking Hoplite was shop lifter

I don't think the tech should mirror their historic prowess in battle. Then I would rather just use senior personnel to ground their capabilities in game terms. However I feel like they should be more of an underdog faction, since their main concern is resisting being annexed by particularly the TT or Hegemony. Besides it will be difficult to achieve a sense of "fun" when meeting OP ships in battle that just obliterates your fleet. I feel like any fleet should have a strenghts & weaknesses, not only in price & numbers.

The way I am hoping to balance the ships is through their preferences in loadouts. The ships are exhibiting only energy & missile weapons, so the opposing fleet should focus on safety and defence, maybe kill off some lesser ships but focus on surviving the missile onslaught. Once the missile barrage thins out, it should be possible to overcome the opposing fleet if you have not yet suffered too heavy casualities and are in control of some controlpoints.

The problem lies in not making the initial missile punch too massive. Sabbots are often very limited but is the best way of punching through shields. The alternative is gravitonbeams but they are difficult to overload destroyers or larger with, so survive the sabbots and you should have a good chance.

On the flipside, the many missiles means that large lowtech ships often are barraged quickly to death, so they need PD help at times :/
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: ensignharrykim on March 06, 2012, 01:33:00 PM
can i offer some advice?

Forget the balancing make the Hoplite ships super tough after all the real Greek Hoplites took years of training almost from birth balance them by making them really really REALLY expensive
BTW the closest thing that Firefox could come up with for spell checking Hoplite was shop lifter

I don't think the tech should mirror their historic prowess in battle. Then I would rather just use senior personnel to ground their capabilities in game terms. However I feel like they should be more of an underdog faction, since their main concern is resisting being annexed by particularly the TT or Hegemony. Besides it will be difficult to achieve a sense of "fun" when meeting OP ships in battle that just obliterates your fleet. I feel like any fleet should have a strenghts & weaknesses, not only in price & numbers.

The way I am hoping to balance the ships is through their preferences in loadouts. The ships are exhibiting only energy & missile weapons, so the opposing fleet should focus on safety and defence, maybe kill off some lesser ships but focus on surviving the missile onslaught. Once the missile barrage thins out, it should be possible to overcome the opposing fleet if you have not yet suffered too heavy casualities and are in control of some controlpoints.

The problem lies in not making the initial missile punch too massive. Sabbots are often very limited but is the best way of punching through shields. The alternative is gravitonbeams but they are difficult to overload destroyers or larger with, so survive the sabbots and you should have a good chance.

On the flipside, the many missiles means that large lowtech ships often are barraged quickly to death, so they need PD help at times :/
well then you could balance by making the hoplite's ships primarily forward firing with very few rear or side facing weapons?
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Arghy on March 06, 2012, 05:00:13 PM
I always liked the idea of having fast but survivable frigates designed to harry and survive like the sickle and the shepard to slow and occupy the enemys larger ships till the slower capitals could get within range.

Basically highly shielded by slow capitals are your phalanx and the other ships are your skirmishers--a capital line would fit in well with their lore of being mainly defensive trying to out maneuver their enemys rather then beating them in a slug fest. The medium ships can be long range strikers and heavy gunships designed to destroy ships their size and isolate the enemy capitals so the phalanx can do what its designed to do, kill other capitals.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Sludgecrawler on March 07, 2012, 09:35:52 AM
I enjoy the ships and handling of them, but find the weapon load-out often quite inefficient.
Mixing short range and medium range or medium and long range missiles in the same weapon groups may be good when they're on auto and the crew is somewhat experienced, but attempting to fire them manually and not wasting good ordnance in the thick of battle is very difficult.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Pelly on April 13, 2012, 03:55:28 AM
Nice ships BUT SPELL "Alfa" right it is ALPHA!!!!
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: WarStalkeR on April 13, 2012, 04:55:09 AM
Etfaks, now it's the best time to start working on Battleship :)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Archduke Astro on April 13, 2012, 03:06:08 PM
Etfaks, now it's the best time to start working on Battleship :)

I'm skeptical of a full-sized capital ship having much congruence with the Hoplites' stated strategic goals. Size-wise, the existing Heracles hull is about as large as I'd prefer, though it could indeed use a buff to its abilities (while still remaining a bit inferior to a true capship, as Etfaks intended).

Speaking of additional future ships.....instead of adding true battleship-grade capships, perhaps additional medium-sized units (destroyer hulls, and an additional cruiser hull) would be a better fit with the Hoplite situation and their limited resources.

Alternatively, a new "harassment frigate" hull which prioritizes durability & flux dissipation at the expense of a high weapons count? Such a ship could serve in large numbers as a "small 'heavy' unit" in the opening of a battle, later serving as a backup echelon behind the cruiser echelon or used independently as skirmishers on the flanks. I think that Arghy's idea up above is a good one and it deserves further exploration.

And as an alternative to the alternative ( ::) ), that possible new destroyer hull could be the sturdy harrassment unit instead of a new frigate. Use of a DD hull would allow you to still keep a hard-hitting weapons suite while still retaining much better agility than a cruiser, though less than that of a fast frigate hull. In general terms, I'm speaking of a unit with the weapons load of a Medusa but also with less speed, less efficient (though perhaps wider) shielding, just a bit less maneuver & acceleration than a Medusa -- but more armor, more ordnance points and superior flux abilities (dissipation as well as capacity).

Such a hull might be costly to buy, but its physical excellence would be well worth the trouble -- it's a superiority unit to anchor small groups of friendly frigates (or other destroyers), or to fly only with others of its own kind as an "armored knights galloping ahead of the massed infantry" group.

Etfaks, this is an impressive little mod and I have high hopes for its future. Kudos to you for such a good start. What are your plans for its next stage of development? Have they changed since the last edit to your thread's first post?
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Upgradecap on April 13, 2012, 03:10:20 PM
@Archduke Astro I don't Remember that the nomads had a much better situation than the hoplites. And yet they fielded an dedicated anti-battleship capship, and an battleship.

I'm not looking for an explanation as to why that happend, but I'm also saying that the power of the swarm should never be underestimated 8)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Vandala on April 13, 2012, 03:10:30 PM
Damn I love the look of these ships.

Not sure which ones are more beautiful, these or those of the Tri fleet.

PLEASE MAKE MORE!!!!  :o
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: WarStalkeR on April 13, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
@Archduke Astro: Soon enough, everybody will understand reason behind battleships ;)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Uomoz on April 13, 2012, 03:12:31 PM
I'm not looking for an explanation as to why that happend, but I'm also saying that the power of the swarm should never be underestimated 8)

There's only one swarm.

EDIT @upgradecap: yeah man, just kidding ;)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Upgradecap on April 13, 2012, 03:14:25 PM
I was referring "swarm" not as a race, but rather as a means to assault an enemy...
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on April 13, 2012, 03:48:01 PM
Thanks for everyones feedback, it's appreciated. I do check back from time to time, but I am somewhat slightly inactive atm, and only hit the forum once or twice a week at the moment. So a lack of time is why my mod has become a bit buried.

Yea I have decided not to join the modpack, mainly due to not having the time to create such a large ship that would be up to par with my other ships quality (I am a pefectionist and the capital took longer than I would have liked it to). Besides, I'm aiming at balancing so that my content are in line with the vanilla game. That's also why I'm somewhat hesitant to include new weapons because it can quickly overpower the standard vanilla ships.

As for my plans, I really don't have any at the moment. I would like to include campaign support, but it is something that will likely happen when the next patch hits or when irl workload clears up a bit. Another destroyer class is likely to be the next objective (I enjoy hunting frigates SO much!).

So that is what's going on for me and my mod:)
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Vandala on April 13, 2012, 04:22:17 PM
What you could do is just add new graphics for old guns, doesn't get in the way of game balance but it adds a little extra to your mod.

Remake the graphics for the weapons you want your faction to use, add those as new unique weapons with only the picture changed and your done.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Sunfire on April 15, 2012, 03:49:15 PM
By the way, your ships are very pretty, so don't allow some weapons to keep you from doing what you want!
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: 7007King0770 on May 07, 2012, 08:41:48 PM
Just saying I am in full support of your mod being part of Uomoz's mod-pack. Trying to be supportive because It's sad to see your unique art style for ships die out.
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: craftomega on May 07, 2012, 08:42:42 PM
Mesaa like.

Mind if I add this mod to my minimash?
Title: Re: The Hoplites of Corinth
Post by: Etfaks on May 08, 2012, 01:10:48 AM
Mesaa like.

Mind if I add this mod to my minimash?

Go ahead, as many people possible might as well enjoy my work to be honest. The contents of the Hoplites mod are free to use from now on, just remember to acknowledge the creator ;)