Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: adecoy95 on April 29, 2016, 11:24:03 AM
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look, i like starfarer (starsector), i really do. but its been in early access for over four years. i personally joined in early 2012 after it got some attention from a few youtubers.
the typical response is that its just one guy developing, but there are a lot of indie games that manage to release quicker than this.
there isint really anything i can do about it i guess i just want to vent disappointment that it is taking so long to see starsector become feature complete. this game is one of the reasons i dont support any form of early access anymore. its probably just like any other creative process, once you start showing it and receiving hype (or the initial big sales) you lose more and move motivation to see it to the end.
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Starsector is a large enough game that it would comfortably fill a 2 year development cycle, given a team of 10 developers, artists, and testers paid full-time. Alex is one guy with a couple part-timers to help. No *** it's gonna take a long time, and anyone who believed otherwise in 2012 is delusional.
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Hi there - just wanted to respond on two of your points real quick.
but there are a lot of indie games that manage to release quicker than this.
All games aren't the same, you know? Starsector is big, and I want to do it right rather than just tick of all the feature boxes.
its probably just like any other creative process, once you start showing it and receiving hype (or the initial big sales) you lose more and move motivation to see it to the end.
I'm super excited to be working on the game. Finally implementing features that have been in the plan for years feels pretty incredible - motivation is, if anything, at an all-time high.
(Not that motivation is required to keep working on something, but that's a more philosophical question.)
That said, I do understand that you'd like to see the game be completed sooner. I mean, I would too :)
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I also joined way back in 2012 and I also made a thread about this sort of topic in the past. Those 8+ month waits between patches are brutal and, to be blunt, are something I view as unacceptable. Wish Alex would hire a second hand but if he hasn't already done so after all this time (David and Stian work on commission), it isn't gonna happen.
But ain't nothing we can do, bro. Alex has kept the game off Steam Early Access for a reason, it seems! So we wait, and wait, and wait...
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At the risk of white-knighting here: When you buy early access, you buy the game in the state it is at the time. Yeah, you can reasonably expect delivery on promises made, but beyond that everything else strikes me as an unreasonable demand.
this game is one of the reasons i dont support any form of early access anymore.
Wow. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. Completely the opposite. SS is one of the prime examples of early access done right. You get a -very- playable game at discount, not a bag full of air and promises. And you know he's going to finish it. Even if it takes a long time.
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How does one find out how they've been on the forum for?
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You've been on the forum since May 05, 2012.
Just click on your name from one of your posts.
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I've been waiting a long time, but I knew I would be, and I've certainly gotten more than my moneys worth out of the game already. The fact that I will continue to be able to enjoy subsequent versions is even better, and never once has Alex gone out of his way to actively market the game or set unrealistic guidelines for hype. This is something I really appreciate out of an early access project. He may be a perfectionist, he may set his own pace, but the quality of the work and stability of the game speaks volumes. Just read one of the blog posts if you're not sure what I mean. Every change, every mechanic is thought out and carefully fit into the larger picture of the game. The release schedule and inclusion of new features has also happened at a pretty consistent rate over the life of the project (at least as long as I've been following it) which is a rare thing on it's own in these types of projects.
Living with a software developer, I've gotten to see first hand what it's like to take even a small a project from concept to completion (even that being a relative term), and it's given me a huge amount of respect for the amount of work a project as ambitious as this represents for a single programmer. I watched four people work almost full time job hours over multiple months just to make a reasonable demonstration of an engine tech demo. It's not easy.
All games aren't the same, you know? Starsector is big, and I want to do it right rather than just tick of all the feature boxes.
That pretty much says it all.
I'm very, very eager to play the complete version of this game. That doesn't take away from what I get out of it already. Sorry if this sounds too much like "Fractal Softworks Internet Defense Force", but I would hate to see this attitude become pervasive in the community.
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I'm super excited to be working on the game. Finally implementing features that have been in the plan for years feels pretty incredible - motivation is, if anything, at an all-time high.
gee, no charges for expansion/patches. i'm happy to shell out ...what? $20 to play for years. This game is exactly what i was looking for. be neat to see 'industry' skills fleshed out at some point but no rush
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this game is one of the reasons i dont support any form of early access anymore.
Wow. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. Completely the opposite. SS is one of the prime examples of early access done right. You get a -very- playable game at discount, not a bag full of air and promises. And you know he's going to finish it. Even if it takes a long time.
That's my take on Starsector as well. It was the first game I bought in development and because it's done so good I also started buying other in development games.
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It's only 15$.
Not comparable to some kickstarter project with wild promises and 2000$ reward tiers.
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You know you aren't forced to play only one game right? You aren't cheating on StarSector if you play something else for the "dry" months between updates.
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I don't entirely understand that mentality, I bought SS somewhere around two years ago. Played a bit then put it down when something else grabbed my interest. I've been picking the game back up every update since, and the progress made (and steady increase in how long I keep playing every time) is very satisfying to see.
In terms of raw price-per-hour of entertainment, SS utterly blows finished games out of the water for me, and I'm far from done with it.
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And you know he's going to finish it. Even if it takes a long time.
This may sound rude, but no, we actually have no proof whatsoever that he's going to finish it other than his word. And somebody's word is worth nothing to me. That being said, the state the game is in right now is already lots of fun. When you play a game for more than 6 hours straight without stopping you know something is done right.
But by wanting to create a huge game, with only one guy, it will take an equally huge amount of time, and at some point you have to let go.
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I take his everyday involvement in the forum, his attitude towards support, bugfixing and community input as pretty conclusive evidence that he wants to finish his game. I suppose that's more of a heavy-handed hint rather than actual proof, but if we're going by that margin no dev, early access or otherwise, has ever lived up to scrutiny beyond a reasonable expectation of them not lying to their audience. That's like asking for proof that money has intrinsic worth - damn near impossible when you think about it.
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You've been on the forum since May 05, 2012.
Just click on your name from one of your posts.
Damn, that long? Thanks for the help :D
Anyway, on topic,
Alex is one dedicated dev, I've seen this game progress from the Starfarer days of just a single sector with no phase ships and barely any real mechanics, followed him since before Total Biscuit's video and loved the game ever since. Do i still play dedicated non stop? Nope, but that's the beauty of a PC game. You aren't shelling out £/$40+ on a single game so you can easily afford to switch between countless. I love nipping in from time to time to see his amazing progress! Threads like these always down-hearten a developer, please understand that progress ALWAYS takes time. Better things take more time. Therefore, for something that is taking longer that 4 years, we can be CERTAIN the finished product is going to be LEGENDARY, not simply great :)
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If all work on Starsector stopped tomorrow, I'd consider that I got my money's worth.
This game is a really good fit for the early access model - an update comes out -> play with it, have fun -> get bored and do something else -> repeat. Every time there's some interesting new thing that spices up the game and keeps it fresh. I've gotten far more time out of it than if I'd just bought the complete version. Slow releases aren't a problem - there are plenty of other things to do.
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Sure it is developing really slowly. But considering is only 1 person full time working on this. It is still amazing progress.
??? ;D
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Four years.
And the Buffalo Mk2 is still the worst ship in the game.
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Four years.
And the Buffalo Mk2 is still the worst ship in the game.
Kite(S) ?
Construction Rig?!? ???
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Honestly the biggest issue is that at the time (and as recently as last October) the FAQ very specifically said that it would not take this long. If memory serves it said something "we're not Blizzard, so this doesn't mean 5+ year development cycles" under release date. It has now been more than 6 years. I like the game but I agree, the pace of development is far too slow. The game is good and hiring a small team to finish in 2-3 years would have been the correct choice. I got more than my monies worth out of it, but it absolutely did not live up to its promise in terms of development time.
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It did indeed say that. Which, if anything, serves to underscore how every time, it's not a good idea to talk about specific timeframes. Everywhere else, I've been very diligent about sticking with "soon(tm)", but had forgotten the bit in the FAQ was there until someone had brought it to my attention not too long ago. Very much my mistake.
(Regarding the "hiring a small team" bit, that... well, it wouldn't work for a large number of reasons. I feel like this has come up before, but here's a quick list: 1) not nearly enough money, 2) can't just find good people with a similar vision quickly, which ties into #1 and makes things take longer, 3) it's a creative endeavor and throwing more bodies at the problem is more likely to hurt than help in terms of overall quality, even if - and that's a big if - that helps it reach a "finished" state more quickly.)
I really appreciate all the support here, by the way. Thank you!
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This game is the best $15 I've spent on vidya in a while. I got it a few months ago and I'm still playing it a lot. Mods help of course, but there's plenty to enjoy even without the mods and I look forward to seeing what else Alex adds in the future.
Four years.
And the Buffalo Mk2 is still the worst ship in the game.
Kite(S) ?
Construction Rig?!? ???
Speak for yourself. I have a Construction Rig as my flagship with 2 Kite(S)s for escorts. ;D
The Buffalo Mk2 is an easy kill when I see one in a pirate fleet, but I'll still capture it if I get the option because it is a halfways decent missile boat to escort a carrier.
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Didn't buffalos used to be affectionately called 'piñatas?'
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I think I bought the game in 2012 (v0.4x or something). Basically I thought back in 2012 the combat was good enough and universe crafting would follow shortly; what followed was more or less 4 years of combat polishing.
I check back every month or two now and haven't really touched the game for a year. I don't regret the purchase but I can't shake the feeling that Alex hit a wall with the non-combat aspect of the game and have been struggling to get those features up to the level of the combat mechanics. The longer SS stays in development, the greater the pressure to ensure the final product is financially successful and the more time is spent in development to ensure that happens and....
Anyway, as long as Alex doesn't run out of funds, I'm okay. Looking forward to xmas 2017. ;D
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I don't begin to remember how long Mount&Blade was in beta. I do remember throwing money at TaleWorlds... long before it was done. .5-something, maybe; back when the Swadians and Vaegirs were the only factions, Zendar was the ostensible starting town and the Dark Knights (Black Knights? I can never remember which it was) were the unholy terror of Calradia.
I've been playing the game off and on for over a decade now. I don't know how many hours that amounts to but I should think it's easily in the thousands. I finally took the plunge and picked up Warband a couple years ago; in that time I've played it at least as much as I was playing vanilla and I still feel like I've only barely scratched the surface of all the game has to offer.
As far as I'm concerned, Starsector is essentially Mount&Blade in space. And the fact Alex is only charging $15 for it almost feels like a crime. I could spend $500 on this game and I'm confident the ultimate value::investment ratio would still be ludicrously overbalanced in my favor.
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I don't begin to remember how long Mount&Blade was in beta. I do remember throwing money at TaleWorlds... long before it was done. .5-something, maybe; back when the Swadians and Vaegirs were the only factions, Zendar was the ostensible starting town and the Dark Knights (Black Knights? I can never remember which it was) were the unholy terror of Calradia.
That's indeed going back a while! :D
I also remember when they expanded the world, and added the capability to capture castles. Though it was before you could join factions, so it was you as an independent vs the world.
I recall if you captured every* castle on the map the game would immediately drop to <1fps.
What I assume to be a pathing bug caused by the lack of any valid destinations for the remaining uncaptured lords.
(*an incredibly arduous task, as you had to leave a garrison large enough to counter any reconquest attempt)
Fond memories ;D
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Didn't buffalos used to be affectionately called 'piñatas?'
Sure did, but they have always been capable of being dangerous if taken lightly. Not particularly worth buying but they're not unusable.
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I waited (and still waiting, I might add) for well over ten years (pfft, could it even be fifteen now?) for another game to even get out of Alpha and add some more content. That's done by two blokes. So the fact that SS is still going strong after four years, with one developer at the helm (ship reference, aw yiss), I would say progress has been great. As it is, the game is more than playable with some downright amazing mods to compliment that fact.
Four years is nothing for a solo project of this size really and there are many other (more expensive) games in much worse of a state.
Besides, developers have things to do other than sit in front of their PC coding all day and night. They're not robots. Sure, four years. But how much of that time is actually spent working on the game. Roughly half of that is designated to sleeping and relaxing (provided you have a normal sleep pattern). That's down to two years already. Given that, development has been bloody awesome when you think about it.
Okay, ass-kissing over. I'm off to bed lol.
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(Regarding the "hiring a small team" bit, that... well, it wouldn't work for a large number of reasons. I feel like this has come up before, but here's a quick list: 1) not nearly enough money, 2) can't just find good people with a similar vision quickly, which ties into #1 and makes things take longer, 3) it's a creative endeavor and throwing more bodies at the problem is more likely to hurt than help in terms of overall quality, even if - and that's a big if - that helps it reach a "finished" state more quickly.)
This is really a shame. Maybe when you release on steam (if you gonna release in early access at some point) you may get more income to hire another programer to help you out. Generally I agree with OP, that development is going extremely slow and that is not exactly a good thing.
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I'm just sad because i want to play it :)
for ref, i bought the game is august 2011 :) But it was only $10 then... till it is finished (or close to it) i'll just keep waiting.
It would be nice if we had a guess to when it might be done. Honestly i totally forgot about the game till the Giantbomb did a video of it the other day. "Hey, this looks like something I've seen before.. hrmm" :)
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(Regarding the "hiring a small team" bit, that... well, it wouldn't work for a large number of reasons. I feel like this has come up before, but here's a quick list: 1) not nearly enough money, 2) can't just find good people with a similar vision quickly, which ties into #1 and makes things take longer, 3) it's a creative endeavor and throwing more bodies at the problem is more likely to hurt than help in terms of overall quality, even if - and that's a big if - that helps it reach a "finished" state more quickly.)
I really appreciate all the support here, by the way. Thank you!
Alex,
I want to start by saying that I think you are an excellent developer and a good person based on both the quality of the product you put out and the interaction that you have with the community here on the forums so please do not take anything I say personally, but I do think it needs to be said.
You made a commitment to us, the customers, when you chose to charge money for an unfinished product. Now as I've said before, I think the quality of Starsector and the amount of enjoyment I got out of it more than justifies that price but I know that is not true for everyone. And even if it is, there is still an expectation that you would live up to the standards that you set out for yourself and provided to us at the start of the project.
Starsector has been in development for a long time and at this point the slow pace of development is hurting the game and your brand. GiantBomb did a video preview of the game today. Here are a all of the quotes from the comments that have to do with the game -
1) Hey it's this game. I bought it back when it was still called whatever it was. I forgot the name of it, so thanks for the reminder. It's crazy that it's not out yet. It seemed pretty nice back then.?
2) I just realized I have a preorder code for Starfarer in my Gmail from August 2011. I had totally forgotten this game was even a thing, and now I'm kind of annoyed it's been almost 5 years and it's still not out.?
3) this game has been in development forever?
Every other comment is unrelated to the game. Every comment posted that had anything to do with the game complained about the long development time. This thread does as well. The post above mine does as well.
With that out of the way - your comment from above
1) not nearly enough money - There are a number of ways to raise funds - from Kickstarter and similar sites, Steam Early Access sales, investors etc. This is a difficult process and I understand that but the number of avenues available to Indie games is at an all time high.
2) can't just find good people with a similar vision quickly, which ties into #1 and makes things take longer - This is true of every business in the world. It is not an excuse or a reason to not hire a team.
3) it's a creative endeavor and throwing more bodies at the problem is more likely to hurt than help in terms of overall quality, even if - and that's a big if - that helps it reach a "finished" state more quickly. - This is simply not true. Ignoring the fact that 99% of every game ever has been made by a team, you already use a team. Art and music are contracted out and have not hurt the quality of the game.
It is clear that you cannot deliver a game of the scope and quality that you want with your current resources in a reasonable amount of time.
I want Starsector to be a success and I know that you do as well. But the current development pace is making that harder and harder. The space game category is not the barren wasteland that it was a few years ago and competitors are plentiful. The opinions of people who own the game are starting to turn sour, and speaking personally - I cannot recommend the game to any of my friends simly due to how slow development has been. I am confident that this is true of other people as well.
You may not agree with me or my assessment but I hope that you atleast give it due consideration.
PS - Pardon the formatting, and grammar/rambling nature of it, I wrote it over a quick break at work.
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You're asking him to suddenly swap workflow and take a huge financial risk for the chance of a faster release. It doesn't seem worth it at this stage.
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And reading comments from:
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/unfinished-starsector-05032016/2300-11170/
i didnt catch that grim vibe for game dev cycle aka taking to long to finish.
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And reading comments from:
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/unfinished-starsector-05032016/2300-11170/
i didnt catch that grim vibe for game dev cycle aka taking to long to finish.
I was referring to the comments on the video itself, sorry for not being clear.
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You're asking him to suddenly swap workflow and take a huge financial risk for the chance of a faster release. It doesn't seem worth it at this stage.
You may be right that it is too late for it to make a big difference at this stage, but the game as it stands is still years away at the current rate of progress, despite being in development for around 6 years already. At some point you have to take a risk.
The below is very subjective, feel free to ignore -
At this point the Giant Bomb video has a higher than average dislike ratio on Youtube, the reddit thread about it was down voted and buried, no prominent Youtuber is giving it coverage, and this is not the 1st time a thread like this has gained traction in the forums. If the game takes several more years to release it will not succeed. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
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''Every comment posted that had anything to do with the game complained about the long development time.''
Literally 3 comments are saying that. Also it's just Youtube comments, people sh*t on everything, most of the time for no real reason. Personally, I'd take a polished game that took forever to release over some rushed cash grab any day, and I'm sure there are others who think alike.
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How many 'finished' $60 games have you bought 4+ years ago that you don't even think about anymore? I paid $10 for this a few years ago, play the new releases and some mods every once and a while, I feel like I made out like a bandit on this game.
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Yeah, I weighed the chances of the game never getting finished vs. how much I thought I would enjoy it and went for it, and as ten-dollar purchases go, I think it was one of the better ones I've made.
It might be possible to accelerate development by a little bit, but probably not by a lot; adding more man-hours doesn't automatically mean faster development. I'm okay with slow (I have so many other games I haven't played through), and a lot of mods are going to get polished up in that time, too. I think slow development would be a bigger problem if the game were leaning on Steam Greenlight or Kickstarter funding, both models that generate a lot of shallow involvement that can quickly turn sour.
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I'm pretty sure Starsector will get finished, im guessing mid 2017 or start of 2018 for a full release, which is fine, I've got plenty of things to keep me entertained, and when it does come out, I wouldn't expected any less than max reviews when it hits steam and a minimum of 9/10 on critic sites. :)
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As is this game entertains me more than anything else and has for 5 months straight now. The fact that I'm gonna get more of this game for years to come is only a good thing to me. See the glass as being half full, man, it's just a matter of perspective
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How about just let Alex focus on making the game instead of dealing with distractions like this and then maybe we would get to play the full game sooner? Since when does Alex disappoint you, with his brilliant game design concepts and prompt response to bug reports? The way I see it, the long development of Starsector is not a sign of Alex taking his time or slacking, but that he makes no compromise in the quality of his creation!
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Normally I can't stand people throwing the word 'entitlement' around like it's a terrible thing but holychrist the entitlement. So you paid ten bucks four years ago and you got a game for it, and have been getting considerable upgrades to that game for free the whole time - what more do you expect? If Alex declared the game was finished tomorrow it wouldn't look out of place alongside anything else you'd find out there commercially available from an indie studio.
And why would it be expected that he should hire people to work on his game? Take any other artform - no one says to George RR Martin 'hey, you're taking too damn long - hire another writer and get on with it!'. People would be angry if he did that. Why should a game be treated differently? Contracting out things he can't do himself is one thing, but why would he be expected to hire someone to work on stuff that he can do himself and has been working on all along?
I don't think Starsector is being made purely as a product of a business to be sold anyway - if that's the idea then it's been managed terribly and Alex should be drowning in cash from overpromising Kickstarters and Steam early access by now. In a time when so-called 'indie' studios can throw around money and hire people to make their games for them, people seem to have lost respect for actual independent development where the creative driving force for the game is the same people who are making it.
I just don't understand the mindset of people who think they are owed updates faster. What exactly do you think you were promised when you bought the game?
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no one says to George RR Martin 'hey, you're taking too damn long - hire another writer and get on with it!'. People would be angry if he did that.
This has been happening consistently, for a very long time on almost every forum I've seen ASOIAF discussed in.
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What exactly do you think you were promised when you bought the game?
Actually, as has already been said in this thread, at one point Alex had something along the lines of "I'm not Blizzard, this won't take forever." This was found on either the FAQ or Buy page, so yeah, that gave the impression that this wasn't going to take 4+ years. Whoops!
Now, apparently Alex has finally reached the stage were he can start adding major and fun features he has been planning for ages so hopefully this means more patches and fewer 8 month waits.
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If I may nitpick a tiny bit here, the preorder page has been very clear about a preorder getting you the game in it's current state, whatever that happens to be at the time. That bit is even underlined, and it also states that future versions of the game are a bonus one gets as part of preordering. I don't like making promises I can't guarantee to keep, and being careful and clear about stating all this upfront on the preorder page is part of that.
Compared to what the preorder page says, the stuff in the FAQ, while it was very much incorrect, just doesn't carry nearly the same weight. I mean, if one were to pore over all the stuff I've said over time, I'm sure plenty of other things have turned out to be wrong. The difference here it's this is like the *one* ill-advised statement I'd let slip through about timeframes.
I *don't* want people buying the game purely because of what it might turn into. That's not going to lead to anybody being happy, because things never turn out quite as one imagines them. If you like where the game is going and want to support that, that's great and I deeply appreciate it - but I hope you'd only buy the game if you feel like you'd enjoy it as it is right now. And, since *that* is what you're getting when you preorder, I try my best to make individual releases fun to play on their own.
Now, apparently Alex has finally reached the stage were he can start adding major and fun features he has been planning for ages so hopefully this means more patches and fewer 8 month waits.
If I had to guess, I'd say that's more likely to mean the releases will have more fun stuff in them than come closer together. But we'll see - really looking forward to talking about some of the stuff that's already in the works!
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really looking forward to talking about some of the stuff that's already in the works!
You just can't resist teasing us, can you?
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You just can't resist teasing us, can you?
Sorry* :)
*not sorry
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so i've been lurking around for about 6 months since i bought the game and first of all its awesome. if/when more content comes i expect it to be awesome. mod content has also been awesome. ;D
now the love is out of the way, there is no contract expressed or implied that the game developer owes you anything other than the version of the product you are purchasing. if it is advertised that you will receive all future versions of a game in perpetuity and there is no official timeline then you get them if/when the dev decides to give them to you.
about the FAQ statement regarding this isn't blizzard, it won't take forever that is clearly puffery, not a statement of fact.
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I often think in game with very few devs, yet a hugh high quality modding community, then I can't help but think with appropriate permission and credit to original authors that some those mods should become legit part of the game to help speed along development and make a more fleshed out game
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Perhaps its time for a Steam early access release.
Honestly this game has lot more content and polish, and is a lot more enjoyable than lot of "complete" games on Steam this days. And there really is almost nothing like this (Ceres, Nexus Jupiter Incident, Starhammer .. thats about it). No space game I have played has this much of tactical depth and realism (sci-fi equivalent).
I think it will make lots of money even in early access. There's huge number of people starved for a game like this and will love it to death. There's also the quasi-hardcore bunch who will buy and leave positive reviews just because of 2d + ironman mode even if they suck at it.
Alex can hire many more minions and push updates faster.
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It's not about hiring more people, mitt. You might not understand the sheer amount of logistics that go into managing a team of developers. It's not as simple as "get more people, push more content" otherwise everybody would be doing it.
Alex obviously has a vision of what he wants his game to be. I very much doubt there is one more person with exactly the same vision. Sometimes it's just easier to do things on your own (or with a very small team of 3-4 people).
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It's not about hiring more people, mitt. You might not understand the sheer amount of logistics that go into managing a team of developers. It's not as simple as "get more people, push more content" otherwise everybody would be doing it.
Alex obviously has a vision of what he wants his game to be. I very much doubt there is one more person with exactly the same vision. Sometimes it's just easier to do things on your own.
I have been a application UI designer for 5 years. I understand a little bit at least lol. Not all developers need to share or participate in his vision, especially at this late stage where the direction of the game is more or less set. They can definitely help him implement his vision.. so he can in fact focus more on the envisioning part.
In any case its up to him. I can understand someone simply not wanting to manage a team. Peace of mind is paramount. For me, the game is more or less complete. I dont care much for exploration or industry... they are only a distraction from the tactical battles which is the U(O)SP for me. The only things that concern me now are cosmetics like more character images which I can add myself, and more ships, faction for which we have more than enough mods. I do like the idea of absorbing certain mods into the game.
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the game is already excellent as it it is!
so Alex can take all the times he wants to polish this gem. :)
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Alex strikes me as perfectionist, always pushing for most stable releases (of Alpha!) and hot-fixing in matter of few days. Person like that wont give his product to wide public unless it's not, like, perfect ;D so going Steam Green Light? Nah. No way. I know he told, somewhere, he will GL it when it's more complete but without some big crisis (like lack of money) going on it just don't look he will do it before 1.0 :D Or, or, at least when all main features are in, like industry. Ofc this is just my humble opinion and i may be totally wrong about it.
Then there are reasons why he is building this in first place. My best guess is cos it's his dream to create something he love. There is financial aspect of it of course but that isn't main creativity drive (as we can all see from big companies when money is main drive to create something we get those AAA games that fail on many aspects, some even on launch , like Batman thingy - one that crashed on PC hard so they need to withdraw until it's patched). This is product of love => he is enjoying coding game. Imagine if you do something you like doing, like eating ice-cream. Chocolate one. Huge portion. Would you give other spoon(s) to someone else to help you eat it faster? HELL NO! ;D Stuff he cant do, or at least cant do on level he would be satisfy with, he give to people that know and can do. That way we (and he) get well rounded game.
Point of all this blabing of mine is that i understand him. He is doing something he love, at least (i really hope) $$ is not problem so time of developing is not that huge problem. There is no need for speeding up process. And looking it that way you got people creating something they love without time constrains and that is good thing. They can invest more of themselves in it to make it better for all of us. Only drawback is, well, more time we need to wait :)
Disclaimer: All of this above is just my 2 cents. I may be completely wrong. Or partially wrong. Or Alex is evil mastermind that found out what type of game is most scarce out there so nobody else making anything similar and he just enjoy looking people hooked on it suffering for lack of completeness. :o
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I played it on january 2012 for the first time. I'm still lurking around almost weekly.
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Nice necro, and I don't mean that in an ironic way, this was a good read.
The only thing that pains me about the long development time is the mods.
Sure, there's plenty of good ones around and I'm thoroughly grateful to the modders that continue to provide updates and improvements, but there's also a lot that have been lost along the way.
If you go back a few pages in the mods subforum you come across so many intriguing projects, so many excellent sprites, designs and backstories. There's just so much wasted potential, for lack of a better word, because real life issues got in the way or people grew tired or bored of constantly updating their mods whenever a new version of Starsector was released.
I'm not complaining of course. I can't mod for *** and I'm fully aware that these are passion projects that modders work on in their free time, but it makes me a bit sad to think of how much more amazing content we could have if the game had had a 1.0 release at some point.
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I've been here since May 2011. I'm not too active on the forum but I lurk occasionally seeing what the latest news is. While I wish we got updates quicker I understand why we don't and appreciate the effort Alex puts into each new feature or change.
I typically like to skip updates too, so for example I haven't played since the last two updates but once the upcoming one is released I'll probably jump back on :)
Starsector is shaping up really well and I can't wait to see the final result of all those years of work.
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I played it on january 2012 for the first time. I'm still lurking around almost weekly.
Oh, no one cares, but i was wrong, i checked my profil : July 2011 !
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Nice necro, and I don't mean that in an ironic way, this was a good read.
The only thing that pains me about the long development time is the mods.
Sure, there's plenty of good ones around and I'm thoroughly grateful to the modders that continue to provide updates and improvements, but there's also a lot that have been lost along the way.
If you go back a few pages in the mods subforum you come across so many intriguing projects, so many excellent sprites, designs and backstories. There's just so much wasted potential, for lack of a better word, because real life issues got in the way or people grew tired or bored of constantly updating their mods whenever a new version of Starsector was released.
I'm not complaining of course. I can't mod for *** and I'm fully aware that these are passion projects that modders work on in their free time, but it makes me a bit sad to think of how much more amazing content we could have if the game had had a 1.0 release at some point.
Oh yeah I completely get what you are saying here. It was hell having to fix things after the first major campaign update changed the file structure. But its important to note that there will be a 1.0 baseline eventually, and I think mods will flourish then. Also, there has to be other modders, like me, who have been working on their ghost mod with no releasable version yet for the last ~2 years specifically for that reason. I don't want to disappoint those that would enjoy it when I know I may have to make some pretty significant changes (and beelieve me I have :P ) further down the development road.
But, honestly, after this next update it may become far more stable. When you still have to integrate a bunch of new features that could drastically impact the overall balance of the game (like around .6a) vs. when you have a feature or two left to patch on and the foundation of the game's overall mechanics (and more importantly code) is far more solid (post-next release?).
So that alone could influence an increase in modding. It all just kind of depends on what makes sense for the health of the game. I would much rather have to put up with structure changes every release than features that don't mesh well or are incomplete because the developer is afraid to rock the boat with existing mods in an early-access game. ;D
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I tend to view this game as an exceptional scotch that gets deeper and richer with every year it ages except I also get to regularly taste it and see just how much better and more complex it gets.
This is game development taken to the perfect art form it can and should be.Naturally I want to play the full game already but there's plenty of things to do in between major updates and the very fact that it takes so long for each one to come out to me at least means I get to rediscover a bit more of it everytime that I had forgotten and not just the new aspects implemented.
For example I never did get phase ships until this last update: I sucked playing them and I was murdered more often than not by them, but now they're exactly where they should be and I finally enjoy them to their fullest extent.
And as for value for money, Starfarer(it shall forever be Starfarer for me) utterly blows anything else out of the water for me. I paid, what,10-15 bucks about 4 years ago and I have easily played it more than any other game in my 16 years of gaming.
Whenever the full game is released I'm buying it again and I'm getting every single one of my friends a copy because this masterpiece needs to be shared with anyone that likes to interact with their art.
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I am all for doing a Job right and taking the time to get it right, I also have no issue waiting years for a product to be truely finished.
That said however, when updates are beyond 6+ months, it create the impression the game development is dead.
They be plenty people who don't own the game, but are interested in it, so they will bookmark it and check back every month or so, but when they consistantly see no updates they they think development is dead and un-bookmark... potential customer lost.
Not everyone check the forum to see if they is active dev's, with amount of EA titles these days it be full time job just checking each game for active devs, so people depend on frequent updates to gauge if a game is still really being worked on, and how dedicated those devs are, it might not be a accurate gauge, but it creates a public perception that can drastically impact potential sales.
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It is hard to believe it has been four years. I got my moneys worth out of this game when it was just a selection of combat scenarios. I am impressed to see Alex faithfully continue making his vision for this game a reality, and although I have not played it lately (as I want to enjoy it afresh in its complete form) the closer the version numbers edges to 1.0 the more my anticipation builds. Four years of continual, near solo, development is not a reason to complain but is rather a reason to commend the developer for sticking with his project even after the initial surge of early access funding.
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It is hard to believe it has been four years. I got my moneys worth out of this game when it was just a selection of combat scenarios. I am impressed to see Alex faithfully continue making his vision for this game a reality, and although I have not played it lately (as I want to enjoy it afresh in its complete form) the closer the version numbers edges to 1.0 the more my anticipation builds. Four years of continual, near solo, development is not a reason to complain but is rather a reason to commend the developer for sticking with his project even after the initial surge of early access funding.
What I was thinking, just with an added of wonder when "It is finished" When features are just added non stop.
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Cost-wise, I love starsector and tbh it is more fun than a lot of games that were released before finished properly (Stellaris? I'm still *** off at that title),
Starsector's got good bang for buck.
Time-wise, I'm torn between 2 states, one of me wants Alex to hire a good team and start hauling ass towards the finish line;
the other me just wants him to take his time and make it as good as it can be.
A thing to point out is time doesn't always scale positively with product quality. There's Blizzard and valve which takes decades to make a game,
and those games are so addictive, fun and deep that people can play it for another decade. Diablo and WOW are legends of their genre.
Bear in mind there are also games that turn out to be mediocre even after years of fine-tuning.
Devs spent years on Spaz 2, I still feel it didn't hit the bar they set with Spaz 1.
That being said, there are big chunks missing from the game now (story, progression, music...etc.)
if Alex ever feels he cannot do something by himself then by all means he needs to hire the manpower
I would go so far as to say, that if he goes on Steam greenlight and needs more money
I would throw down another 30 bucks to see this game done within a year.
PS: Some of the mods are so amazing I can only say they should be included in the main game and credited properly, eg.: Blackrock shipyards and Starsector+
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With current amount of content in the game I have no problem with it still being in early access. Most of the features are already here, and I personally have played more $ out of unfinished Starsector than from many released AAA titles. If such pace is convenient for Alex, then okay, he seems to know what he does, "quality over quantity".
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Yeah the wait is often killing me, without mods it would be hopeless, but atleast there is progress and I dont feel like I over payed! Still checking weekly for new updates, so the game must be doing something right instead of making me give up! But for the love of god, I cant wait for ever ^_^
edit: paid 10.80e 2012 :S
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I bought Starsector, nay Starfarer, way back in... 2012, I think it would have been. Maybe even 2011. I figure I got more than my money's worth in the first month alone, and at that point the game had nothing but single missions and it would be years before the campaign mode - the very first one, with only the Corvus system and no trading - would be released.
Yes, Starsector development cycle is long. Yes, I wish it were completed faster.
No, I'm not angry. The progress is slow but it's sure. New updates, when they land, tend to be very polished. So I simply accept that things are as they are and keep my eye on the forums, play the game some after each new update, then go away to wait for the next one. I have time, and good things come to those who wait.
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I bought Starsector, nay Starfarer, way back in... 2012, I think it would have been. Maybe even 2011. I figure I got more than my money's worth in the first month alone, and at that point the game had nothing but single missions and it would be years before the campaign mode - the very first one, with only the Corvus system and no trading - would be released.
Yes, Starsector development cycle is long. Yes, I wish it were completed faster.
No, I'm not angry. The progress is slow but it's sure. New updates, when they land, tend to be very polished. So I simply accept that things are as they are and keep my eye on the forums, play the game some after each new update, then go away to wait for the next one. I have time, and good things come to those who wait.
Literally everything you said is true for me too :D, I couldn't agree more
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starsector is in the flight sim category entertainment wise.
mostly i complain on the forum but i've played over 500 hours at this point more than likely (more than likely way more)
game was like what, 15 bux back in the day?
i only still linger here and complain about muh fighters because i loved the game, love the game and will probably continue to love the game barring some great catastrophe that irrevocably ruins it forever somehow
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i only still linger here and complain about muh fighters because i loved the game, love the game and will probably continue to love the game barring some great catastrophe that irrevocably ruins it forever somehow
I'm pretty sure that's true for all of us, even the most constant complainers.
If Starsector was *** we'd all have said so once or twice and then moved on because it wasn't worth wasting any more time on it.
Most people usually only stick around to nag and make demands if they are somewhat invested in a game or at least see a lot of potential.