Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Iscariot on February 21, 2012, 09:28:09 AM
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Enough about all this gushing about the cool ships. I wanna know which ones ride the metaphorical short bus. The ships that dropped out of highschool and hang out in the local convenience store parking lot with their trashy friends. The rejects. The fuckups.
I wanna know your LEAST favorite ships.
For me, it's hard to decide between the Sunder and the Brawler. The Brawler is one of the most frustrating frigates to start with, in my opinion, being that it only has those crappy rockets and therefore gets cut to pieces by the Lashers that tend to pick on you in the early game. That said, the Brawler could possibly have some use against slightly slower ships. The Sunder not only cost me money but was friggin' useless, slow, and punching far below its weight.
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Hrm, this is a good question. I used to like the brawler, but my eyes have since been opened to the fact that it's only good for selling and buying a lasher. :/
Probably my least favorite is the shuttle though. You can't even sell it for any real money. :D
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The brawler is a poor stating ship because its designed to go against destroyers and the like, and operate in a fleet (Since usually you don't have many lone destroyers, and the only ones generally seen are buffalo IIs, and those suck horribly when used without support (because they have no shields, and pretty pathetic armor, and rely almost entirely on missiles))
However, I think my least favorite would be in agreement with Qloos' assessment: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.15
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I've never even SEEN an omen in combat....
Also, stop picking on the shuttle! I murdered two hounds and a talon wing with it.
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Onslaught.
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Never fought inside one of the weaker frigates so can't comment on those.
I do find Enforcer-Class Destroyer and Dominator-Class Cruiser to be the least lovable because they are both slow, look like an ugly meatball, and every single one of them I can get my hands on are apparently "outdated".
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The hound is absolutely terrible, bad hull, bad armor, horrible flux and no shields, not even the fastest frigate or the most maneuvarable one either.
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I've never even SEEN an omen in combat....
Missions.
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It's been a while since I've done them, which ones?
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I have a couple test missions with them, and the original apogee mission had one but I haven't played that recently, so I don't know if it got dummied out.
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2 slot freighter
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2 slot freighter?
Atlas has 3
Tarsus has 4
Gemini has 3
Buffalo has 1
if you count the tanker...
Dram has 3
I'm pretty sure I got them all
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2 slot freighter?
Atlas has 3
Tarsus has 4
Gemini has 3
Buffalo has 1
if you count the tanker...
Dram has 3
I'm pretty sure I got them all
Probably the hound, then. :) I love the hound. It's fast, scrappy, tough, and has hanger space. What other frigate can realistically field talons?
If you hate the hound that bad, you're doing it wrong...
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The hound isn't a freighter, not a real one anyways
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The hound isn't a freighter, not a real one anyways
It's a "combat converted tramp freighter." (shrug) I assumed that was where the confusion is coming from.
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I thought the hound was in the "match box" classification. Strike once and watch it burn.
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Ba-dum-tishhhhh...
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you cant get your hound threw airport security... its a strike anywhere match. LOL.
my least fav.. probably the buffalo MKII a destroyer with no shield is slow and poor area coverage. = target practice. if i capture one and it manages to stay alive i sell it at the first oportunity i get.. assuming the airlocks dont magically open and the ship scuttle itself.
though a close second would be the venture. the cruiser that wants to be a carrier but fails at both being a cruiser with any power and a carrier.. and is slow as snot to boot. i have capital ships that are faster.
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The Brawler... its just to slow to even get in range of its targets. Add to that a none omni sheild and salamanders eat it for breakfast.
I dont mind having a buffalo II or more in my fleet (to bad they are slow as hell) its nice to have the missile support. It sucks on its own but in a fleet situation with expanded missile racks and armor mod its not horrible. (its stock version without expanded missiles is stupid)
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I haven't piloted my captured Venture myself, but the four ballistic hard points (two of which I gave LRM Phylums and two MRM Harpoons) are very nice for supporting my Hyperion. I did label it as a Fire Support since it doesn't really have any major firepower aside from those.
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i really thought venture was real cruiser... till i encountered real cruiser... my 1 blaster vs 4blaster +3 lasers didnt end well...
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Well, I think I will be the only one here to say that my least favorite ship is the APOGEE.
It has a ludicrously flux-generating shield, which is also a 360 front shield. With its long thin shape, the shield MASSIVELY increases the hitbox. Also, its weapons generate huge flux, and so consequently it overloads in record time.
It is a faster cruiser, and the most expensive one out there, but it can't hold its own. It overloads too fast too fight against other cruisers, and can't accelerate fast enough to get away after it quickly overloads, leaving its weak armor to get torn to pieces. With its terrible shield and flux venting, it is relegated to sniping, and picking on the weaker of the destroyers. For such an expensive and high-tech ship, it has some MAJOR design flaws, and isn't worth the fleet points to deploy it.
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The Apogee does indeed punch below its weight, probably because as the lore indicates, it's an armed exploration ship rather than a warship. The one mission featuring it was pretty frustrating to me until I realized that kiting the Onslaught around was pretty much the only viable tactic.
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though a close second would be the venture. the cruiser that wants to be a carrier but fails at both being a cruiser with any power and a carrier.. and is slow as snot to boot. i have capital ships that are faster.
As much as I'd hate to say it, if you think the Venture is bad and not worth the cost then you are doing it wrong. The only problem with it is that it's marketed as a close support cruiser when it has no right being one.
It is golden once you strip it and rearm it as Fire Support. 2 Pilum LRMs with expanded missile racks will allow them to be linked and have enough ammo to last any fight. 2 Dual Flak Cannons will tear through any strike craft or missiles that try to assault it or the retreating fighter wings. A single Heavy Blaster is more than enough to deal with any nimble threats that break through the lines and hunt it down.
It costs the same fleet points as 2 Fire Support Frigates, provides the same firepower, has a carrier cap of 25 and more importantly has the hardpoints, armor and flux to defend itself should it come under fire. It's far from a front line cruiser but park it's butt near the closest objective and have it rain fire down on the enemy fleet. At which point it's slow speed doesn't even matter.
The only problem with this is that I can't find a damn thing to do with the 2 small missile mounts and I don't like having empty slots. Maybe when Converting is put into place to allow for hardpoints to be removed or altered that problem can be fixed. After all, if you could fit a T-Lance on it... *drools*
Now, with that out of the way and ignoring the obvious problems with ships dealing with capacity that has no bearing on the game (Crew, Cargo and Fuel transports for example) I'm going to throw my lot in with the Eagle as my least favorite ship. It's got a good balance of energy and ballistic weapons, decent shields and isn't costly for it's class. But the problems sit with the stock variants only changing the missile loadouts and the Flux problems that arise if you put on heavier hitting burst weaponry. It's all using medium hardpoints so it requires a drawn out fight, breaking the shields and beating down on the armor, it's too heavily reliant on missiles and it's so slow that destroyers and fire support will pick apart your targets before you reach them. It requires fleet actions as it can't deal with more nimble Strike Frigates and Destroyers, yet that same fleet renders it useless.
It's a slow brick that can't have an effect on the fleet battles. Though the hound is far too vulnerable to strike craft and missiles and the Brawler is picked apart outside of a fleet, both of them can find a specialized use at certain fleet sizes and against targets. That is why the agle earns my vote for Worst Ship Ever.
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Venture rules. It's the fastest vanilla carrier... outfit with longest range weapons possible and do not consider it a real cruiser. Its a fire support all the way round. I love that damn ship.
Hypervelocity cannons work well, and Pliums / Harpoons for missiles.
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Tossup between the Hound and the Omen. I have personally used neither, but their performance against me is awful. But against an earlier post, I LOVE the Brawler. I have only ever had one, but I loved it while I had it. I think it is just fine for taking on capital ships in a frigate, and there is nothing like maulers and AM blasters to lay down the pain.
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I have to agree with Sucky Jack and hairrorist, the Venture is pretty spiffy once tricked out with long-range weapons. Let it hang around at the back with its Pilums and your choice of good range cannons; it snipes and accepts fighters/bombers while the rest of your fleet merrily hunts on the front. Pretty effective.
That being said, isn't there a tanker frigate or something? I remember seeing one being sold at the station, and it seemed like a pretty good candidate for least favorite ship (will have to test that one out later).
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I'm not sure if the tanker should count, given its utility. Same reason I don't hold anything against the Apogee, I just... don't really see how you can hold hate against a utility ship.
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Tanker
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I'm not sure if the tanker should count, given its utility. Same reason I don't hold anything against the Apogee, I just... don't really see how you can hold hate against a utility ship.
Hate is such a strong word :D but I see your point. I was operating on the assumption that its a least favorite ship to use on combat :P
In that regard, my least favorite ship to use in combat is the Buffalo Mk II. I can see how its weapons can make it respectable in certain situations, but having no shields for a ship that size is a pretty big downer for me. That, or I might be using it wrong (like the Falcon; I love how it looks, but I have little success with it so far).
I do use the Apogee as a flagship, currently. So far its performing well for me. So far.
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I don't really hate the Apogee, but I get why other people do. It does punch below its weight, and it's mobile, but not mobile enough to be fun. I actually kind of like it. It's design is pretty cool-- I prefer long shaped ships as opposed to squat or round ones like the Dominator or Medusa (sorry people).
Remember! Favorites aren't just about performance, lore, appearance, all valid components in your final assessment.
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actually, if you roll the tanker every time using the sell all ships exploit, you could reach a theoretical max of 85000 credits
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I currently have an Apogee in my fleet, helped me out killing my first paragon together with my Aurora, a Tempest, a Wolf and my Medusa, it works well overall if i don't send it around alone.
Least favorite ship is the Tempest, even though i like it in my fleet all those battles where one or two or three just run out on me produced a lot of hate there ;)
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It's taken a lot of thought, but my absolute least favourite ship would probably be the Brawler.
I can dig the Hound, as it seems like it will be very useful as part of a trading fleet, backed up with a few more combat capable craft to take up the front line.
The Apogee would also be one of my preferred flagships, when things like cargo and fuel matter a bit more. It just performs well all-round, if not the best in combat.
And yeah, I completely condone the use of the Venture as Fire Support. I tricked mine out with Swarmers on the small missile mounts to give it a little bit more against fighters, and it stacks well with the missleracks you are going to give it to buff the Pilum LRMs. It is awfully slow, though. Less of an issue for traders or miners, more an issue whilst the game consists of running after fights in a single system.
It's just, the Brawler. I can see how it COULD be quite a useful ship, and if you don't take care of them early, they might give you a problem with some reasonable firepower. It's just, they can not cope with more than one engagement at a time. You just wait for their backs to twitch, and start wailing at their behind until they pop.
I have had a lot of fun flying one, and it is satisfying when you take down a ship you should have no rights to destroy, but of all the ships available, it is my least favourite.
I can't hate the Omen. It' just too bad.
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My least favorite ship is actually the lasher, i know some of you like it but i see its faults. As long as i don't engage it with fighters i win, i usually start with a hound and altough a hound is said to be weak its actually damned strong against the lasher and pretty much any other ship not equipped with beams. If you want a winning tip with the hound against the lasher, don't try to keep your distance. Ram him and keep him close, he runs out of flux before you run out of ammo and you will probably only loose 500 health if you loose any at all. Your forward guns are perhaps the most powerful forward guns in the start of any of the frigs. (That really means i love playing the hound but the ai can't play it.)
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IDK about you, but spamming missiles at AI Hounds kills them very quickly, even Pilums.
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When I'm fighting the Hound I find it really shines when its supporting destroyers or cruisers, especially when there are two of them. I made the mistake of ignoring a pair of hounds while tackling a destroyer - I was quickly destroyed :D. It packs a huge punch for its size and fleet cost, but is a swarmer ship that will die quickly if alone. The bad reputation of hounds I think is a by product of the AI sending out lone ships to capture objectives.
That said they have crap for point defense and the missiles on a wolf can take down 2-3 without blinking :P
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With recent playing of The Last Hurrah, I must say that the Conquest is now my least favorite ship.
I mean, I can see what it's trying to do, but it just doesn't do it. And that's why it's my least favorite. It's not that the ship is crappy, it's that it's not doing what it's designed to do.
Let's start with it's problems compared to the Onslaught and in general:
The flux capacity is less than the Onslaught. This is offset by dissipation, but it means that the Conquest cannot take sudden attacks as well.
The shield is too small and too slow to turn. Meaning that any surrounding enemy is going to have a field day. This is especially dangerous if you fail to pay attention to that one bomber wing that comes from the other side for even a few seconds. Oh, and it costs more to maintain than the Onslaught's shield which is DOUBLE the size even if it isn't Omni.
The main guns, while much more powerful, are all to the sides! Meaning facing your enemy means no main guns! But your torpedoes are to your front; meaning you cannot turn to the sides if you want to use your torpedoes! Main guns to the sides also means that the only way to get the most out of your ship is to be surrounded; which is not what your shield is designed for!
While it's faster than the Onslaught, it's not even nearly fast enough to make up for it's weaknesses! It also cannot turn fast enough to really choose which guns you use on your enemies.
It's armor is thinner than the Onslaught and it's hull integrity is much worse than the Onslaught. When overloaded, the Conquest would go down much faster, and in general even without overloading it can't take the fire coming it's way.
While you're a smaller target when facing the enemy to the front, when facing the enemy to the side--the only way to use your main guns--you're a VERY large target.
Someone, give me some help here on how I should be piloting this thing. It just seems like piloting a Conquest requires two or more people controlling it to even stand a few seconds in an actual fight. And even then it just doesn't seem like it can face against even two cruisers with a few missile racks. It's just plain silly how it feels like a Hammerhead--a destroyer--has a longer lifespan in the different combat situations they're supposed to be in.
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Being that the Conquest is in fact my favorite ship, I'd be happy to give you some advice.
You're pretty observant, so you've noted a lot of the Conquest's weaknesses, namely that it's flux capacity really gargles nuts. If you're playing in dev mode, you can mess around with its loadout, and I personally dropped the Mjolnir cannons for Hephaestus guns, because really, those things flux up way too hard.
But if you're not, I still do have some advice. You're right that the shield turns slow, but its' coverage isn't bad and the Conquest actually has some fantastic mobility for a ship of it's class. Always move with the pack, and don't be afraid to reverse. If you find yourself in need of redirecting your shields, a trick is to no try and turn the shields but instead drop them and restart them in the area of your choosing. You're trading coverage for location here, but coverage doesn't mean a damn if it's in the wrong place. Vent WHENEVER possible, and often. If there's a Lasher or a wing of Talons around, don't even give a ***, just vent.
The spinal torpedoes are probably your most important asset. Two volleys of those will jack up anything, Onslaught or not. So your approach should be a question mark; come in with your spinal mounts facing the enemy, and launch your torpedoes whenever you're confident in having them hit, then break to a side-- preferably the side with your forces on it and swing around, letting your powerful broadside hammer the sides and then the back of whatever you're hitting.
Part of your frustration is definitely that the Conquest isn't really set up right for the Last Hurrah, where the biggest problem, honestly, is the fact that you get zoned out by fighters. It's got those Mjolnirs, and it hasn't got enough in point defense. But take my word for it-- one of these days, you'll burn in on an Onslaught, blow his shields away with your torpedoes, come around hammering him silly with your broadside, as your wolfish grin widens-- the firing arcs of your torpedoes lining up with that fat bastard's engines..... and you will enjoy it heartily.
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Ok, so people like the Hound... but... it just dies SO easy and I hate the bloody thing. HOWEVER, there is one ship (or fighter rather) that takes the cake. Talon wings. Good God in heaven send me some real fighters!
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In all fairness to the Talon, they're pretty fast and at 3 CP, you can zone out your enemy early game. Just put your green pilots in them, and don't keep them on the field of battle long. Far more useful than the Hound.
Regarding the Hound, I'm pretty sure that the challenge flying one presents is half its appeal. Which I do get.
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To be fair to the Hound, one use I found for the hound is softening up fighter wings: Shoot at the enemy fighter wings, but don't care about destroying them. Your own fighters should take less time to wipe them out. And you can dodge missiles pretty well, allowing you to drain the enemy of their missiles. Otherwise, it's bloody useless against anything with a shield.
Anyway, thanks for the advice Iscariot. I'll try it if I ever get the chance to fly one outside of The Last Hurrah.
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Onslaught- No question....
It has horrible turning rate, and a very suckish firepower, meaning that if your forces get too far away, anyone get blown them to bits, and then just go after you. The firepower is WAAAAAYYYYY too meagre on this beast for the weight that it is, they really should adjust that!
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Onslaught- No question....
It has horrible turning rate, and a very suckish firepower, meaning that if your forces get too far away, anyone get blown them to bits, and then just go after you. The firepower is WAAAAAYYYYY too meagre on this beast for the weight that it is, they really should adjust that!
I personally love the Onslaught. It has insane survivability and firepower, and you can equip it so many ways. I put augmented thrusters on usually, which makes using the two forward hardpoints much easier, then cover it in flak cannons in the medium slots, and one dual flak on the front med slot, which means it shreds nearly 100% of missiles and almost all fighters. I usually don't even need to raise shields against a bomber wing because the wall of flak annihilates the bombs way before they get to me. Then I have either railguns/heavy autocannons or various needlers to kill shields, 2x hellbore on the front to mangle anything that gets in the way, and 3x hephaestus with 4x pillum or 4x reaper. That missile barrage is so deadly.
Least favorite ship though would be ALL the tri tachyon ones. It's not that they are bad, I just prefer the unstoppable heavy armor, ballistic approach to the flit around with shields and energy weapons style.
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How can the Onslaught have suckish firepower? It can mount some of the heaviest guns around; 5 Large and 9 medium slots, beating a Paragon, which is only outdone by a Conquest. And even then it has more Ordnance Points. The only shortage it has is large missile slots and small ballistic slots. There is no way that is suckish firepower.
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How can the Onslaught have suckish firepower? It can mount some of the heaviest guns around; 5 Large and 9 medium slots, beating a Paragon, which is only outdone by a Conquest. And even then it has more Ordnance Points. The only shortage it has is large missile slots and small ballistic slots. There is no way that is suckish firepower.
Yeah, "sucky firepower" and Onslaught really can't be put together at all. Perhaps he was commenting more on the range, though. The reliance on ballistics does make the Onslaught's range rather meager compared to energy-weapon-utilizing ships.
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The Onslaughts torpedo launchers are pretty terrifying. Supposedly the Paragon can outgun and outlast the Onslaught, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if you can get an Onslaught's fat ass close enough, that would not be the case.
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The Brawler is just terrible, but there is one other ship that just outright irritates me: the Sunder-class. Not so much because it's bad, but because it feels as though it should be so much better. The large energy mount seems like something that would be genuinely valuable, but the complete lack of any fighter defence leaves it so vulnerable that it just can't be relied upon to stay alive even, with an escort.
As for the Conquest, though, in my opinion there's really only one problem with the ship: the default loadout is truly terrible, for two reasons. The first is that, as people have mentioned, terrible flux capacity and Mjolnir cannons do not go well together. In fact, terrible flux capacity and capital ships just plain don't go well together. The second is that it basically ignores fighter defence: really, those lasers aren't good enough to stop Pirahnas without moving your shields to deal with the threat - leaving you exposed elsewhere. My solution, therefore, is first to lose the Pilums entirely: as long-range artillery, the Conquest just doesn't have enough launchers to prevent its missiles being shot down by anything that's slow enough for them to catch. Replace the Railguns with Dual Flak Cannons (make sure to set them to another weapon group), which deal with bombers and missiles nicely; you really don't need the railguns' added firepower to back up an already impressive broadside. Finally, replace the Cyclone launchers with Typhoons - really, who needs *20* torpedoes more than a total of 32 extra OP? All this allows you to shove in capacitors and vents until you can support the Mjolnirs; or add in Gauss Cannons for their flux efficiency so you can add in a whole bunch of hullmods.
If I'm honest, though, even then it's still just not as good as an Elite Onslaught. But the much nicer aesthetics of the Conquest are usually enough to make me pick it instead.
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The Brawler is just terrible, but there is one other ship that just outright irritates me: the Sunder-class. Not so much because it's bad, but because it feels as though it should be so much better. The large energy mount seems like something that would be genuinely valuable, but the complete lack of any fighter defence leaves it so vulnerable that it just can't be relied upon to stay alive even, with an escort.
If you ever get your hands on a Tachyon lance, the Sunder becomes absurdly powerful for it's class in my experience as long as you pilot it (as the AI is an idiot and gets all up and close to the enemy). Not that it will be easy without mods, but if you ever get the chance...
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If you ever get your hands on a Tachyon lance, the Sunder becomes absurdly powerful for it's class in my experience as long as you pilot it (as the AI is an idiot and gets all up and close to the enemy). Not that it will be easy without mods, but if you ever get the chance...
Yeah... I've never been lucky enough to have my station stock a Tachyon Lance, and getting one second-hand from a Paragon at a point in the game where I'm still using a destroyer as my main ship sounds like a bit of a challenge. You're right though, that does sound like fun.
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As for the Conquest, though, in my opinion there's really only one problem with the ship: the default loadout is truly terrible, for two reasons. The first is that, as people have mentioned, terrible flux capacity and Mjolnir cannons do not go well together. In fact, terrible flux capacity and capital ships just plain don't go well together. The second is that it basically ignores fighter defence: really, those lasers aren't good enough to stop Pirahnas without moving your shields to deal with the threat - leaving you exposed elsewhere. My solution, therefore, is first to lose the Pilums entirely: as long-range artillery, the Conquest just doesn't have enough launchers to prevent its missiles being shot down by anything that's slow enough for them to catch. Replace the Railguns with Dual Flak Cannons (make sure to set them to another weapon group), which deal with bombers and missiles nicely; you really don't need the railguns' added firepower to back up an already impressive broadside. Finally, replace the Cyclone launchers with Typhoons - really, who needs *20* torpedoes more than a total of 32 extra OP? All this allows you to shove in capacitors and vents until you can support the Mjolnirs; or add in Gauss Cannons for their flux efficiency so you can add in a whole bunch of hullmods.
If I'm honest, though, even then it's still just not as good as an Elite Onslaught. But the much nicer aesthetics of the Conquest are usually enough to make me pick it instead.
I agree that it's not quite as 'good' as the Onslaught, and that it looks better, but it is also more fun to fly than the Onslaught. The Onslaught is just far far too slow.
I actually messed with the Conquest earlier and replaced all the burst PDs with LR PDs to help the flux, dropped the Mjolnir cannons for Hellbores, the burst lasers for Heavy Blasters, the railguns for dual flak guns. That actually gives enough points left over for quite a few in capacitors, and augmented engines as well, which turns the Conquest from a midline battleship with no staying to a pretty powerful battlecruiser. It's broadside is frag and explosive, unfortunately, which means its forward Heavy blasters and torpedoes have to do the work on the shields to optimize effectiveness, but really, if you land those torpedoes, enemy shields shouldn't be an issue.
If you ever get your hands on a Tachyon lance, the Sunder becomes absurdly powerful for it's class in my experience as long as you pilot it (as the AI is an idiot and gets all up and close to the enemy). Not that it will be easy without mods, but if you ever get the chance...
The Sunder with the Tachyon Lance actually works alright-- if you assign it to a fire support waypoint with other LRM platforms like Buffalos, Condors, whatnot. My main issue with using it in campaign is wasting a 30,000 credit weapon on the SUNDER, and risking it in combat. It literally costs more than the ship.
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The Sunder with the Tachyon Lance actually works alright-- if you assign it to a fire support waypoint with other LRM platforms like Buffalos, Condors, whatnot. My main issue with using it in campaign is wasting a 30,000 credit weapon on the SUNDER, and risking it in combat. It literally costs more than the ship.
But consider what it does for you: It allows you to effectively have a hand of god, without having to bring up a big, slow battleship. It allows you to take out or damage whoever you want, whenever you want. And the speed of the destroyer lets you keep up or stay away from the enemies.
Think of it as a sniper with extremely expensive equipment looking over a giant plain: He's fragile, and losing him would be a serious loss, but until then no enemy is safe.
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I understand the point, but if a mobile Tachyon platform is what you want, I feel like the Odyssey serves your purposes better. Not only can it carry two, it's also a carrier, which easily justifies it's support role. The Sunder is a suboptimal solution to a tactical niche-- there's much better out there.
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But it's still a Battleship. The Sunder is a Destroyer. It costs much less to get it on the battlefield, and it's much faster. And it's a much smaller target.
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*Shrug*
Actually it's a battlecruiser, but these days people don't make much of a distinction. Point taken though. Personally, I still wouldn't commit a tachyon lance to the field in campaign unless it costed a bit and had a bit of protection.
EDIT: Also, I usually put carriers in the field pretty early. If not the first wave, the second.
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I've been trying the Conquest but I can't seem to get it to work. I lost a 1v1 with a DAMAGED aurora because even upgraded to 19000 flux capacity I maxxed flux way to quickly, and was then smashed by his MIRV and Heavy Blasters. If you take the hypervelocity drivers off you can't get through shields, if you leave them on, along with all your PD lasers and 2x large ballistic gun ( I was using hellbores) firing from broadside you max flux almost instantly. If you raise shields it's even worse. If it made up for this with good maneuverability it would be fine, but it turns as slowly as an Onslaught does unless you get augmented thrusters, which eats up points for flux capacity. Onslaught doesn't need to turn much because nearly everything is turreted, and you can have so much flak coverage you really don't need to put shields up much.
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The torpedo strike is key. Also, I would think about changing the Burst PD turrets to either tactical lasers or LR PD turrets. Also, I think heavy blasters are pretty necessary. I've gone 3v1, an Onslaught, a Dominator, and a Condor all at once and I've managed to kill the Dominator and Condor and survive against the Onslaught long enough to get reinforced by my fleet.
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mine is the warthog destroyer no shields , bad point defnce slow , can be taken out by a wing of anthing expete intercepters and no real money for selling if i ever get the change to borade one i scrape it nothieng else
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Aren't Warthogs fighter wings?
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I've been trying the Conquest but I can't seem to get it to work. I lost a 1v1 with a DAMAGED aurora because even upgraded to 19000 flux capacity I maxxed flux way to quickly, and was then smashed by his MIRV and Heavy Blasters. If you take the hypervelocity drivers off you can't get through shields, if you leave them on, along with all your PD lasers and 2x large ballistic gun ( I was using hellbores) firing from broadside you max flux almost instantly. If you raise shields it's even worse. If it made up for this with good maneuverability it would be fine, but it turns as slowly as an Onslaught does unless you get augmented thrusters, which eats up points for flux capacity. Onslaught doesn't need to turn much because nearly everything is turreted, and you can have so much flak coverage you really don't need to put shields up much.
When i capture a conquest i ended up changing hte torpedos to the mirv kind the missiles that track targets then split into a ton of small missiles... this way i could still use my big launcher points while hitting with my broad side.
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anything slower then the medus class that i can kill with my hyperion( i dont think capital ships count in this)
the sunder isnt too bad when properly flown though
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The Sunder with the Tachyon Lance actually works alright-- if you assign it to a fire support waypoint with other LRM platforms like Buffalos, Condors, whatnot. My main issue with using it in campaign is wasting a 30,000 credit weapon on the SUNDER, and risking it in combat. It literally costs more than the ship.
The Sunder only needs one weapon, the Tachyon Lance. And it's the safest ship in your fleet to let mill about and do what it will in large fleet actions. Why?
Because it's not a fast ship compared to the Medusa, so it shouldn't be on your front line but rather in the first reinforcement wave after you take the closest objectives.
It's own range will ensure it will never get to close to anything dangerous as it will not be getting the Engine Boost due to firing it's weapon.
It's cheap on fleet points for the amount of firepower it brings to the fight.
And if you are really concerned about fighters you can outfit the 3 turrets with PD mounts and place Swarmer Missiles in the missile slots.
Besides, one word describes what happens to a fighter that get tagged by a Tachyon Lance. Popcorn.
(Also helps that I haven't started a world where the first convoy dropped 3 of the things in the station, no mods ;D)
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How can the Onslaught have suckish firepower? It can mount some of the heaviest guns around; 5 Large and 9 medium slots, beating a Paragon, which is only outdone by a Conquest. And even then it has more Ordnance Points. The only shortage it has is large missile slots and small ballistic slots. There is no way that is suckish firepower.
Yeah, "sucky firepower" and Onslaught really can't be put together at all. Perhaps he was commenting more on the range, though. The reliance on ballistics does make the Onslaught's range rather meager compared to energy-weapon-utilizing ships.
I did make an onslaught with intentionally sucky firepower (or well, rather, using very low-OP weapons (light mortars & basic flak cannons) so that I could dump all the OP into things like engines, shields, armor, hull, etc), and it was able to tank damage so well that I took out an onslaught with "proper weaponry" (though I ended up using nearly all of my light mortars' ammo and consequently had to withdraw)
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Least favorite? There's a difference between "Least Favorite" and "Worst", so...
My least favorite is probably the Tempest. I'm sick of seeing them everywhere, they're not fun to fight unless you're also in a Tempest, and they're just plain annoying.
However, when it comes down to the worst ship and the ones I'll refuse to fly, it's a toss up between the Omen and the Brawler. In fact, Qloss inspired me to make a montage of my Brawler's highlights in a random battle:
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6938/uselessbralwer.jpg)
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The hound, god forbid i ever have one in my fleet to lose 15 crewman on.
It's fast....ok, that's about it.
I watch it go boom as soon as a wasp wing intercepts it.
With 11 wasps wing in my fleet they can't even fire the assault chaingun before going boom.
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With 11 wasps wing in my fleet they can't even fire the assault chaingun before going boom.
wow... what a comparison...
i could just say that 6 hounds can kill most destroyers with ease...
does this make most destroyer bad? XD
my least favorite ships are the tempest
and the vigilance (so useless!!)
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With 11 wasps wing in my fleet they can't even fire the assault chaingun before going boom.
wow... what a comparison...
i could just say that 6 hounds can kill most destroyers with ease...
does this make most destroyer bad? XD
my least favorite ships are the tempest
and the vigilance (so useless!!)
Pirate fleet, somehow had 20 hounds, 6 destroyers and some major ships.
My first wave, carrier and 7 wasp wings, theirs , 9 hounds and some other ships.
Before i reached the comm-link all hounds were disabled...... sorry, but if 7 fighters blow up 9 "frigates" i'll call them bad.
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Least favorite? There's a difference between "Least Favorite" and "Worst", so...
My least favorite is probably the Tempest. I'm sick of seeing them everywhere, they're not fun to fight unless you're also in a Tempest, and they're just plain annoying.
However, when it comes down to the worst ship and the ones I'll refuse to fly, it's a toss up between the Omen and the Brawler. In fact, Qloss inspired me to make a montage of my Brawler's highlights in a random battle:
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6938/uselessbralwer.jpg)
Ah, this is a meme I can get behind. :D
My pick has to be the Brawler for all the above reasons. Slow as hell, only fixed forward firepower and a fixed shield. The only viable tactic with this is to pick off crippled pirate fleets and get enough spare cash to sell the Brawler for something better. I could see it doing much better if it was actually fast but its horrid speed and turn rate means that it really feels its limited arc of fire. If there were some decent medium ballistic strike weapons I could see them being good against larger ships (maybe with a speed boost) but as it stands they suck against... well everything and there is no ship that can't do their job better.
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Dont dis the houd, my shuttle, lasher and carrier got torn to shreds by 2 hounds and a lasher.
Houds speed is defiantly their strong point
On the other end of the scale, brawlers i think are terrible. above average hp for sure, but not enough to counter their speed... or lack there of.
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least favorite ship is really hard to nail down.. there are so many ships people dont fly either because they dont work in there fleet.. there rare. or they just dont use them. i personally cant nail it down to one unit... so top 5
tanker ( has no purpose as of yet really)
hound ( i dont use it much though it does have good speed. they still have a very high mortality rate.)
brawler( hounds can kill them because there so slow.. but they do have really good firepower.. if you can use it)
Omen ( exceedingly rare. had it as my flag ship for a time. excellent maneuverability top notch speed. paper for armor. paper for hull.)
buffalo MKII (good weapons platform as long as its in a long range support role... which it cant fill very well. no shields and mostly target practice for anything with weapons range over that of a machine gun.)
also because it should not be forgoten
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/Qloos/Forum/Uselessomen.jpg)
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The brawler's AI is just borked. It will refuse to engage 'Lasher' class ships or anything carrying missiles. I even gave it a reticules amount of firepower to test this and a bunch of PD systems. Same result.
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k
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2 of my least favorites ships are the Tarsus-Class and Sunder-Class.
Tarsus-Class Doesn't have much for what its running with, I'm glad it has OMNI shields but i don't want 4 small ballistic mounts on the damn thing. I'm thankful i strapped stronger yellow weapons on him (2 Cluster Bomb-bays Front and 2 Light Dual MG's to pick off missiles) but some times i just don't bring him on missions due to his poor speed.
Sunder-Class, Good God i hate piloting this thing, such bad turning that makes it drift and hit things, plus its bad armor doesnt allow for much survival on the battlefield so hitting things is going to make you rage. Its the only Destroyer-Class that can equip a large energy weapon, but go luck ever having more then 4000 flux with those 2 med energy weapons which is usually the pulse lasers, but you keep venting after every ship you destroy.
I would be better off in a Gemini-Class ship then the Sunder
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Try mounting a Tachyon on that Sunder and keep it back.
Tachyon fire support, without any of the cost of a battleship or cruiser.
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The flaw with the sunder isn't in the ship itself; it's in the rather lacking selection of large energy weapons. There's exactly one large energy weapon that out-dpses medium energy slots - and that's the plasma cannon, which the sunder really just doesn't have the flux capacity to support.
Tachyon lance is definitely the way to go; support it with a pair of light needlers (leave those medium energy slots empty), extended shields, improved maneuverability, 20% range increase... field that thing in your initial wave of fighters, and it's devastatingly effective at giving you initial map control. With the needlers to take down enemy shields, it's even good at killing low-to-mid-tech destroyers & cruisers. Or you can just have it retreat after you're done sniping fighters, and shift your flagship to something else.
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Tarsus-Class Doesn't have much for what its running with, I'm glad it has OMNI shields but i don't want 4 small ballistic mounts on the damn thing. I'm thankful i strapped stronger yellow weapons on him (2 Cluster Bomb-bays Front and 2 Light Dual MG's to pick off missiles) but some times i just don't bring him on missions due to his poor speed.
It's a freighter... what were you expecting?
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Yeah... ragging on the tankers and freighters is a little cheap....
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Well I'm okay on ragging on them... But don't act like they are supposed to be heavy hitters. :) Just hate them because they are freighters and you don't like freighters.
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Sunder-Class, Good God i hate piloting this thing, such bad turning that makes it drift and hit things, plus its bad armor doesnt allow for much survival on the battlefield so hitting things is going to make you rage. Its the only Destroyer-Class that can equip a large energy weapon, but go luck ever having more then 4000 flux with those 2 med energy weapons which is usually the pulse lasers, but you keep venting after every ship you destroy.
When I first saw it, I thought "Sweet! A large energy slot!". Then I actually piloted it. It can't handle the flux it's weapons generate, let alone handle that flux WITH shields up that are taking fire.
And it's Armor is so pathetic that you NEED the shields to be up. The only Large energy weapons I've really been able to use well on it are the Tachyon Lance (Which is no surprise because that weapon is pretty ridiculous) and the Autopulse Laser (Because it's so flux-efficient). It dies to Fighters and Missiles so easy that it's ridiculous. I'm pretty sure my last Sunder got taken out by a single Reaper torpedo...
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Well I'm okay on ragging on them... But don't act like they are supposed to be heavy hitters. :) Just hate them because they are freighters and you don't like freighters.
Oh, never underestimate freighters and tankers. I actully once took a whole onslaught all hands down with a dram. Ofcourse, it had cluster bomb bays, but it took him form ~40% health to disabled. Never. Mess. With. A. Dram. :)
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Tarsus-Class Doesn't have much for what its running with, I'm glad it has OMNI shields but i don't want 4 small ballistic mounts on the damn thing. I'm thankful i strapped stronger yellow weapons on him (2 Cluster Bomb-bays Front and 2 Light Dual MG's to pick off missiles) but some times i just don't bring him on missions due to his poor speed.
It's a freighter... what were you expecting?
I think its the only freighter with a OMNI shield or a shield for that matter (dont quote me on that because i might be wrong, have to check the codex on freighters) Though none of the freighters have a pad for small fighters to launch. but shouldn't some freighters have a better defense for themselves since they are traveling with goods?
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iirc, all the freighters have omni shields
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And Gemini and Atlas both have flight decks
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And Gemini and Atlas both have flight decks
the venture could be considered at least partially a freighter since it does have a very large cargo capacity and it also has a flight deck. in fact if im not mistaken the condor also can carry a large amount (relative to other destroyers) of cargo as well.
My least favorite ship atm would have to be the Conquest, at the moment its a joke when in the hands of an AI since they can't bloody figure out that Broadsides should be pointed at the enemy not the front of the vessel, i'm not saying its bad for players but i personally never fly capital ships so i think its nearly useless at this current build of the game, once the AI handles it properly i might actually allow them in my fleets.
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Sunder-Class, Good God i hate piloting this thing, such bad turning that makes it drift and hit things, plus its bad armor doesnt allow for much survival on the battlefield so hitting things is going to make you rage. Its the only Destroyer-Class that can equip a large energy weapon, but go luck ever having more then 4000 flux with those 2 med energy weapons which is usually the pulse lasers, but you keep venting after every ship you destroy.
When I first saw it, I thought "Sweet! A large energy slot!". Then I actually piloted it. It can't handle the flux it's weapons generate, let alone handle that flux WITH shields up that are taking fire.
And it's Armor is so pathetic that you NEED the shields to be up. The only Large energy weapons I've really been able to use well on it are the Tachyon Lance (Which is no surprise because that weapon is pretty ridiculous) and the Autopulse Laser (Because it's so flux-efficient). It dies to Fighters and Missiles so easy that it's ridiculous. I'm pretty sure my last Sunder got taken out by a single Reaper torpedo...
I don't know what you're doing wrong, because I've found Sunders to be excellent tanks while still having good firepower. Put on hardened shields, light machine guns for PD, and leave the missile slots empty. Pulse lasers in the medium slots, and a pulse laser, high intensity laser, or tachyon lance in the large slot. Put the medium and large slots on different fire groups. Put all extra points into vents and you have a tanky fire support ship. The shields can take tons of damage, and there is still enough vents to support the large weapon, just be careful with the pulse lasers.
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...but shouldn't some freighters have a better defense for themselves since they are traveling with goods?
Depends on the freighter. :) Tarsus and buffalo (not mark 2) were designed only to haul stuff. Tarsus is tough, but still not combat tough.
Hound, venture, and gemini on the other hand are a little more combat capable. Some more than others. ;)
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...but shouldn't some freighters have a better defense for themselves since they are traveling with goods?
Depends on the freighter. :) Tarsus and buffalo (not mark 2) were designed only to haul stuff. Tarsus is tough, but still not combat tough.
Hound, venture, and gemini on the other hand are a little more combat capable. Some more than others. ;)
Oddly enough Ventrue and Gemini are ships that i use, gemini not as much unless they are a small unit such as lashers or buffalo Mk.II's. Hound i can kind of use if i'm piloting them, AI just seems to want to die rather quickly.
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Yeah... They are much improved from the last patch. They are pretty fun with hi velocity drivers on them. Kinda pricy, though.
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LE GASP! ICEPICK's GOT 666 POSTS. *HSSSSSS*!
*Makes a cross with his fingers*
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Yeah... They are much improved from the last patch. They are pretty fun with hi velocity drivers on them. Kinda pricy, though.
Which the Ventures or the Gemini's? because i've looted Ventures and i have two with different sets on
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I meant hounds, haha. Sorry. I need to be more clear on here. And in life in general actually. X[ I mostly always use flaks on the venture. And I've never had a gemini long enough to play with it. :/ I should play with the venture more, though. It's a beast.
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I outfitted a Venture with dual heavy needlers and the medium mount harpoons - it actually makes an excellent light/tough cruiser with plenty of flux, armor, and stopping power. I turned them back into flaks because the ship was unacceptably vulnerable to missiles. Maybe if I put a heavy burst PD on the medium energy slot it would work though... a few wasp wings around to shoot stuff down... hmmmm. I'll have to go play with it.
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I run the venture with a burst pd, two dual flaks, two salamanders, and two lrms. They don't die to missles and two of them put out a lot of missles.
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Ventures are slow as molasses, but they can take a pounding, are carrier-capable, and can pack some firepower. Even those default-loadout Ventures can put a hurting on most Destroyers with that Mining Blaster...
iirc, all the freighters have omni shields
Buffalos lack shields, period, and are still technically a "Freighter". However, they're about as threatening as a beached whale and go down to a single Reaper torpedo...
As a Strike Ship pilot, I'll say that amongst Freighters, the Tarsus' tend to last the longest because their shields can take a pounding and they have a sturdy Hull. Buffalos are basically free kills, and the Gemini has really thin armor and only an average hull under it's shields.
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I meant hounds, haha. Sorry. I need to be more clear on here. And in life in general actually. X[ I mostly always use flaks on the venture. And I've never had a gemini long enough to play with it. :/ I should play with the venture more, though. It's a beast.
I've picked up quite a few Hounds from my adventures but i have a larger armada of ships so they got replaced rather quickly
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Buffalos lack shields, period, and are still technically a "Freighter". However, they're about as threatening as a beached whale and go down to a single Reaper torpedo...
Buffalo does have shield, it's Buffalo Mk II that doesn't have shield.
Yes some genius took a look at a Buffalo and though to himself "You know what, I'm going to turn this tin can into a warship. And I'm going to make it battle-worthy by TAKING OFF its shield."
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Buffalos lack shields, period, and are still technically a "Freighter". However, they're about as threatening as a beached whale and go down to a single Reaper torpedo...
Buffalo does have shield, it's Buffalo Mk II that doesn't have shield.
Yes some genius took a look at a Buffalo and though to himself "You know what, I'm going to turn this tin can into a warship. And I'm going to make it battle-worthy by TAKING OFF its shield."
@nanostrike HEY! I take offense to that! Beached whales are WAY more dangerous than a buffalo MK II >:(
@Temstar , YEP makes sense to me. if it had a shield it might actually be a fairly good warship for its size. especially if the shield was upgraded the same way the weapons systems were.
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Buffalos lack shields, period, and are still technically a "Freighter". However, they're about as threatening as a beached whale and go down to a single Reaper torpedo...
Buffalo does have shield, it's Buffalo Mk II that doesn't have shield.
Yes some genius took a look at a Buffalo and though to himself "You know what, I'm going to turn this tin can into a warship. And I'm going to make it battle-worthy by TAKING OFF its shield."
@nanostrike HEY! I take offense to that! Beached whales are WAY more dangerous than a buffalo MK II >:(
@Temstar , YEP makes sense to me. if it had a shield it might actually be a fairly good warship for its size. especially if the shield was upgraded the same way the weapons systems were.
If the buffalo Mk II had a better OP score then yea it would offset the fact that it doesn't have a shield or even a better armor rating
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Pretty much any low-tech ship. Why? They are slow, and usually don't have the range that mid-line or High-tech ships. Their only saving grace to me is the fact they can deal out some high DPS while tanking lots of damage. But, at the end of the day, I'd rather have Omen.
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...they can deal out some high DPS while tanking lots of damage...
That is pretty much their role, yep. I'm guessing your play style sees little use for that role in a fleet (nothing wrong with that, of course!) :)